Sitting Bull : Gordon Stuck in Limbo

[From the FanShots. No real new information, unfortunately. -ed.]

"His best deal might be to take the qualifying offer," one GM said. "He could still re-sign with the Bulls next year. He'd just have more leverage."

about 1 year ago swede2287 32 comments 0 recs |

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More leverage?

More like lol wut.

If he takes the QO, dude buries himself on the bench and tanks his stock. That’s just an awful decision if he goes that way, IMO.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Aug 4, 2008 11:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

apparently gordon loves to take risks...

by Jbonelli on Aug 5, 2008 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, he'll be buried on the bench

if VDN distributes minutes according to salary. But I don’t see VDN doing that. I think the Bulls will continue to give Gordon starters’ minutes if he signs the QO, because they’re not good enough to leave his skills on the bench. Not saying he’ll start; just that he’ll get starters’ (and closer’s) minutes.

This will pump up his value, as there figures to be someone out there with a need for a bona fide scorer such as Ben, especially if they need someone to anchor their second unit and also be available for starting once in a while (the Heat?).

But that’s the worst case scenario, because if Ben is p.o.’d then he’ll just leave without giving the Bulls a chance to match, or without keeping them in the loop. All the more reason for Pax to try and find a way to pawn off Hinrich, Noc or Hughes right now, to try and get Ben to be a part of this next phase of Bulls development.

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on Aug 5, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see it as a question of tying minutes to salary.

VDN has (presumably) a 4 year contract. Everone’s giving Rose at least a one year mulligan. VDN will want to have a cohesive, high-production unit by…let’s say the end of year two entering the play-offs.

He’s going to play the guys who he thinks will be there two or three years from now. If Gordon demonstrates a greater commitment to getting his next contract than he does to winning the next Bulls championship, VDN will likely play him that way…which is to say, not much.

I think signing the QO would be a huge mistakefor Gordon—not because of the couple million dollar difference between the QO and the likely first year money of a long-term Bulls contract. He runs the risk of losing the perception battle, and getting stigmatized as a me-first, only-in-it-for-the-money, non-team player. That would be death to his career. He’s become Larry Hughes.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Aug 5, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree.

For one, the underlying premise of your argument is that anyone on the Bulls roster other than Gordon is going to be any good down the road either. Hughes and Hinrich will be gone eventually. Hughes for obvious reasons an Hinrich because he’s not good enough to start long-term. That leaves Thabo and he’s no answer either. So, the answer long-term is either Gordon (since he’s the best of the four) or someone not on the team. “2-3 years” isn’t that big of a deal in the long run.

I think the Bulls want to win, especially in Rose’s first year. If they can make the playoffs in his rookie year when he’s supposedly so damned raw, imagine the marketing possibilities!!!

I agree w/ bullhockey, here. The fact that they’re still negotiating tells me they still want him. The speculation/rumor that they’re offering every dollar under the luxury tax indicates to me they think he’s worth more than that, but are using the luxury tax as an excuse.

I’m unsure of Gordon’s ability to be the starter down the road, but I think he has the best (or only) chance of anyone on the roster to start in the backcourt next to Rose. If the Bulls think this, they’ll give it every opportunity to be successful. (in my opinion…)

by tyger1147 on Aug 5, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Gordon signs the QO

my guess would be that Thabo gets lots of minutes.

If Gordon signs for something like the 6/60 this article mentions, then he gets the bulk of the minutes.

My guess is that VDN is looking to bring a team together around Rose’s development.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Aug 5, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thabo's not that good, though.

He’s a worse shooter than Hinrich. When the team is launching 3’s at 25%, Thabo will not be getting sig. minutes at the 2. Hinrich is more likely than Thabo.

by tyger1147 on Aug 5, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is Thabo's make or break year.

I think the Bulls give him plenty of opportunities to make it.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Aug 5, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the Bulls are smart...

....they’d limit Hinrich’s, Hughes’s and Nocioni’s minutes and there would be plenty for Gordon and Sefolosha.

by tyger1147 on Aug 5, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's exactly what will happen.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Aug 5, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

why do we wait until the "make or break"

when the outcome is usually break, and the value of the asset now has dropped to nearly nothing?

Tyrus,Thabo,Kirk … make or break year, (Noah..next year) trade assets now while others still think they have value, not afterwards (mgmt’s unprofitable due diligence).

Maybe the Bulls need to hire a money fund type manager. Sell high, buy low strategy. Paxson has the buy low working by default with lottery draft picks, but doesn’t do well on the sell high side of pumped assets.

by exult463 on Aug 5, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then who do you keep?

And for that matter, who do you get in return?

If Paxson err’s on a side, it is that he believes too much in the players he has drafted and taken some time to groom. If you are always trading away players right before their “make or break year”, who are you going to develop? And the risk is great if you trade away someone who develops into an all-star later.

Besides, if you are trading away a “prospect”, aren’t you probably getting one in return? If not, you are getting an older veteran who is at or near the end of their prime. And the Bulls don’t need someone like that right now.

For Thabo and TT, this coming season is their “make or break year”. I say that not because it is a matter of them reaching their “full” potential this coming season, but you will get a very accurate picture of what that potential is (even as young as TT is).

p.s. I thought Thabo got much better by the end of this past season.

by StephenAA on Aug 5, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think ur right

but the fear i have is if they all play like a make or break year. we kight have problems for guys doing too much for themselves. kinda like BG and deng last year after not having contracts.

Rose lobs it up for the alley oop... and it's caught and put down by Rose

by Yibs on Aug 6, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In 22 games as a starter at 31.7 MPG

Thabo shot 46.4% from the field.

Thabo for the 08-09 MIP if he gets the minutes.

by messwiththebull on Aug 5, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ronnie Brewer made the leap to a respectable starter this year

With Deron feeding him the ball at the perfect positions. Thabo is a similar player, but I don’t know if Rose can have that kind of impact in just his first year.

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 5, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thabo got better as the year went on

basically once Skiles left. It’s a shame that Skiles may have stunted the development of at least two of our young studs because he holds grudges.

Take a look at Thabo’s splits, notice how his FG% skyrocketed after:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=3028

Most notable is his increase in shooting percentages once he got more minutes:

Pre-All Star: 39.5% FG on 6.1 FGA and 26.0% 3-PT on 1.1 3-PTA
Post-All Star: 49.0% FG on 6.0 FGA and 42.1% 3-PT on 1.7 3-PTA

Does it seem like a player was pressing while playing under Skiles?

by messwiththebull on Aug 5, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles is just a basket of love

Gotta love the 6 minutes per game in December, 31 minutes in February (averaging 12 points and 6 rebounds), then going back to 20 minutes for the rest of the season. I mean, it’s not like jerking players around and their minutes like that doesn’t hurt their development…......

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 5, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In fairness to the post-Feb dip

Thabo got hurt and they brought him back slowly off the bench, if I recall correctly.

by messwiththebull on Aug 5, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't love anything more than...

...Thabo and Gordon to both have BREAKOUT years. If Thabo shows to be a productive replacement for Gordon (something I give about a 0.5% of happening), and Gordon explodes, the Bulls could use Gordon in a sign-and-trade and have a ready-made replacement.

by tyger1147 on Aug 5, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do agree with you that the Bulls still want Gordon.

My guess is that the only reason BG hasn’t already bolted is the Bulls are giving him signals that they’re trying to cut enough fat from the payroll to give him a little richer contract.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Aug 5, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or that no one else has come calling

since he’s been in the papers asking for 13 million per year and no one wants him for that money.

by fundamentallysound on Aug 5, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I meant

bolted for a strong-or-is-it-weakening euro team.

Agreed that no NBA team is going to show him a 13m offer.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Aug 5, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he doesn't want to play in Europe

I really believe that.

by fundamentallysound on Aug 5, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I believe it, too

but if there’s no money for him here…and for that matter, no playing time either, taking the Childress path of a nice 3 year deal with annual outs is not a bad option for Ben.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Aug 5, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ack--in my above post I didn't mean to say, "He's become Larry Hughes."

I meant to say, “He’d become Larry Hughes.” ...meaning, a team pariah.

I don’t believe that’s who Gordon is now.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Aug 5, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt it will affect his minutes untill....

there’s 2 months left in the season. If the team is basically out of the playoff hunt, I could see them playing Thabo, DRose and then Hughes (trying to boost his soon-to-be expiring contract trade value). Hinrich will come next in the pecking order because he’s still signed followed by Gordon. He’ll basically be Duhoned.

by CJ Bulls on Aug 5, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs