Gordon to accept QO...

by Khalid El-Amin on Aug 22, 2008 2:12 PM CDT Comment 42 comments

Can anyone verify this post on Hoopsworld?

Humble Pie For Gordon

So the Ben Gordon story is coming to the ending that we all really expected. He's going to wind up taking the Bulls' qualifying offer and become a free agent next summer. At that point, he'll undoubtedly either wind up taking something similar to what the Bulls had on the table this summer - roughly a $60 million deal - or he might even wind up with something less. For a guy who walked in, talked about being better than Allen Iverson, and told everyone he should be the highest paid player in the history of the Chicago Bulls . . .that's a pretty big piece of humble pie to swallow. Hopefully he's learned something from the experience.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9812

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I read that crap yesterday...

I merely just read it and thought nothing of it…there are no sources,or anything that would indicate anything otherwise…Honestly,anyone of us could have wrote that with as much conviction as that crap on Hoopsworld…..Non-relaible,nothing significant,and since he’s the only major name left unsigned,they would be lost without saying something about him…

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 22, 2008 2:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I figured as much...

But I also saw this…

http://dabullz.com/2008/08/20/gordon-to-take-qualifying-offer-after-all/

The thing I love about the internet tends to be the thing I hate about it as well. Hard to tell what to believe sometimes.

Don't call me doughboy!

by Khalid El-Amin on Aug 22, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

POOPsworld!

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 22, 2008 2:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess so...

Feel free to delete this posting.

Don't call me doughboy!

by Khalid El-Amin on Aug 22, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nah it's alright.

I just like saying Poopsworld. though it’s really not establishing itself as a legit source.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 22, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

At leat one solid thing...

came from that posting from hoopsworld,they cleared up that crap about BG saying he was better than AI…so,I can appreciate that

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 22, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the lesson Gordon has learned:

Demanding a trade after he was benched (again) in his 3rd season would have worked out a whole lot better.

by hscs on Aug 22, 2008 3:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

no shit.

I’ve read that Ben is a news junkie, so it probably incenses him that he’s labeled a ‘bench player’ after likely hearing from Paxson (repeatedly) that in their eyes it didn’t matter.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 22, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This would really suprise me.

I cannot think of any Bulls player of significance that played on Qualifying Offer. That doesn’t mean there weren’t any, I just cannot think of any.

by chgobr on Aug 22, 2008 3:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

he'd be the most significant NBA player to do so, let alone Bull

it’s a pretty awful failure if it happens.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 22, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If

BG does play out this year on the QO,I would really think the Bulls have damaged the rest of the Leagues image of their management….If Ben is indeed the best Bull,or one of the best let’s say…what free agent is gonna want to come here and even have the possibility of the same thing happen to them after it was so easy to sign Noce,Hinrich,and they even signed Duhon back last summer rather quickly,but the player who arguebly is the best on the team,or at least the only player with a killer instinct and you throw the Luxury Tax reason around…that can’t be viewed as good from the players around the NBA who even ever thought about coming here in the coming years….who cares if they think that it’s a good deal for Ben,you just don’t let a player you once valued so high as to draft him with your first pick in the draft in his draft year,and then show the rest of the world how badly you can treat him…regardless if it’s market value or not,the Bulls cannot make a public stance with the player that still is an important piece of the pie,be it for a trading part,or very good player on your team for years to come

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 22, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree to an extent...

But something tells me that if we were talking about paying a guy like Dwight Howard for example the Bulls would not hesitate to go over the cap and into luxury tax territory.

Other teams (and players by proxy I would assume) realize Ben’s worth as exactly what the Bulls offered him (or less), otherwise he’d be playing another uniform next season.

This really speaks more to the fact that yes Ben Gordon might be the best player on the team… But what does that say about our team? Lots and lots of pieces, but no real marketable superstar worth spending luxury tax on (at least in Reinsdorf’s eyes).

It is what it is, and more often then not you hear players claiming that it’s all business, but there are two sides to that story.

Don't call me doughboy!

by Khalid El-Amin on Aug 22, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to agree.....

I think,no,as a matter of fact I know that the Bulls would pay Howard if he were our FA,but at the same time,I tend to think since we have no Howard,BG thus becomes our Howard,and if nobody else in the league can afford to,or at least agrees with the numbers JR is throwing at BG,I still would just assume that all the players generally like each other around the League and they would be rooting for BG to get what he might be asking for,no matter how ridiculous it is…But as an organization,I think it’s your reponsibility to keep that shyt out the media and at least not let the whole world know that your potentialy best player is miserable in negotiations…..Because from my point of view BG is doing himself a mis-justice,but for an organization,the Bulls are not gaining any fans from the outside looking in either with how the last 15 months of negotiations have gone with 2 of your very own

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 22, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

logic

I tend to think since we have no Howard,BG thus becomes our Howard

This type of convoluted logic sinks organizations into the abyss. Thank god management and JR do not agree with you.

Is your argument that a player who wants to be in Chicago will refuse our money because of how we handled Ben Gordon? I find that hard to believe.

by ridindirty on Aug 23, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Call it what you want....

And read what I responding to before you pull one point out of multiple back and forth convo with someone else b4 you go assumming one statement summed up something that was going back and forth ……
But if history has anything to do with it….Benny the Bull was at the airport waiting on Tracy McGrady to turn us down just a couple years after we broke up the dynasty…and I could go on to name more instances of Chicago being spurned on numerous FA’a in the recent years after M Jeff went to Washington….
And,from your point of view,I don’t know what you were reading, but management does not have to agree… I hope they don’t agree,but you would actually have to read up a lil to understand that……Think about it for a second…everybody in the world thinks they are right…Bulls management thinks they are right…but that is not how you are percieved by your negotiations if you think you are right or wrong….I think I am a good guy….but my ex girlfriend that I cheated on doesn’t think I am so nice….You think you are nice…but your friend who used to be your best friend but is not anymore doesn’t think you are so nice…Perception from the outside is not always the way you draw it up….but you would have to read up a lil to understand the LOGIC that I was speaking upon in response to another response…..

Because from my point of view BG is doing himself a mis-justice

I guess you missed that part in your haste to say that management doesn’t agree with me….who cares…my point is well documented and the point is….a team doesn’t become attractive by having public disagreements on players…the media will play that up,and that does not look good from the outside…so,I really hope the Bulls management doesn’t agree with my writings,I only hope that they make sure that they keep players from making public stances against the team when they were drafted so high and a important part of the team as recently as 1 year ago….I am a Bulls fan,not a BG fan, I hope more than anybody in the world that whatever their plan to make my favorite team a contender,and then a Championship team they do it….I could care less what managements LOGIC is…I just want a winner,if BG is part of it…great,if not…so be it…we don’t have a Howard on our team,and BG is just as important as a trading part or long term peice to the puzzle…..Does Atlanta seem like a great organization after their negotiations with Josh…and he was the he was 17th the same year ben was selected 3rd for our team…not that draft position matters 4 years later,but Pax didn’t draft BG and stockpile talent to lose him,or he would have never wasted a no.3 on him when Iggy,Jameer Nelson,K.Mart,D.Harrison,Al Jefferson,A.Beidrins, or even Deng could have been taken with that pick if they went another direction……and for argument sake…all those players signed back before they hit URA status

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 23, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Catch 22

I think what the Bulls organization is running into here is a catch 22. They don’t want to lose their leading scorer. They don’t want to look bad in negotiations to future FA’s either. But the catch is, in order to not let these things happen, they may have to give BG a very “bad” contract, which would preclude them from signing someone else later.

I want BG back, at the right price. He simply is NOT A MAX CONTRACT PLAYER. Therefore, he has a max. Are the Orlando Magic going to win it all with Rashard’s contract? They are better, but now they are handicapped and are not yet championship contenders. Everyone loved Kirk until his contract. (Yes, I acknowledge that his poor play after he got married and signed the contract also has a lot to do with it, but it wouldn’t seem as bad with a smaller contract.) Everyone loved Nocioni before his bad contract. Everyone is loves Ben now too, until he gets a 70-80 mil 6 year contract and then becomes untradeable because he doesn’t have near that value to anyone else. At some point, management has to draw a line and say, “look, we love you, we want you back, but you’re not worth X, so take 10 mil a year, or go try to get it somewhere else.” That frustrating thing is obviously at this point, nobody else will give him more, but Ben can’t seem to see that.

by Unrealcity on Aug 25, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm

I read your back and forth. I took a quote which revolved around your main point and responded. I am not worried about the perception of players because of BG’s negotiations. They know, just as management does, that this is a business. Water under the bridge the next time the Bulls start throwing money around… McGrady didn’t sign here because he liked the Orlando weather better and more importantly because we made it clear we wanted Grant Hill, who we had almost no chance of signing, and that McGrady was an afterthought. I think that is a poor example… I have no clue what your dissertation on logic has to due with any of this. I do not know what you are referring to when you say your point is “well documented”. I do not think draft position has squat to do with how you decide to allocate a fixed amount of money years later. Ask Joe Dumars….

Either way go Bulls, I am for whatever is best for the team also. :-)

by ridindirty on Aug 25, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well documented meant...

I stated several times…in this post….
As I said before…the Bulls will be the one that doesn’t look good when all this is said and done…Deng is signed…everybody thinks he is a good guy…In 8 years of trying to acquire a big name or even washed up former star,our attempts have been futile…Mutumbo and Thomas balked at playing here…and T-Mac didn’t take the money,Hill moved on and the only major free agent signing we got was BW3,and he was no star in my eye at the time….I mean..as a result of the last 15 months….do we look more like Atlanta which is a crap organization with plenty talent…or do we look more like Dallas who will not let their players ever even get to the media with negotiations…..I really don’t want to be either one…but I would prefer to be right in the middle,,,have our players keep their negotiations behind closed doors,and not have to overpay like Cuban did with Finley…..So,realistically…i think we have a unrealistic player…but we also can’t just close the door all of a sudden if the bulls are so concerned about luxury tax,we still have an opportunity to get under that level..and that’s why i think that is just an excuse to sign BG to what they are offering him…which i still have no problem with..but don’t get bad PR by faking the Luxury tax injury…Ben knows he is at market value…the Bulls need to stop using that as a crutch and tell him that is simply all they will offer so they can shape the damn roster already!

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 25, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

minor point....

I’m not going to debate if Dirk or Nash has been better since Nash went to Phoenix, but Dallas let their best player walk. As I said, Hill was going to orlando the whole time, and we didn’t show Tmac the love, so he bounced too. Tmac really wanted to come here, but he wanted to be THE GUY for the bulls, and unfortunately the Bulls made it obvious we really wanted Hill or Duncan. That was a pathetic summer for the Bulls, at it had much more to do with a delusional Krause than it did the city of Chicago or the Bulls organization. You might not have viewed Wallace as a star, but he was in most people’s eyes. We also offered him more money, and he was the biggest FA of that summer, if I remember correctly.

Point here being… Players go where they feel like it, nobody in 2010, or in two months for that matter, is going to care how the bulls handled Ben Gordon. I cannot tell if you think we made BG a fair offer, by your wording. IMO we made BG a fair, if not more than fair offer. He should take it, sign the QO, or have his agent work out a sign and trade.

by ridindirty on Aug 26, 2008 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If this is true...

This is bad news for the Bulls next season. I expect that Gordon playing for a contract will play even more selfishly than last season, which is not good for team harmony.

by Dionysus2.0 on Aug 22, 2008 4:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you mean last season

where he actually used fewer possessions than the year before?

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 22, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

stay away from the facts

the facts are not our friends.

by DangerMouse on Aug 22, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Used fewer possessions for what?

To dish out fewer assists, take more bad shots and not make the extra pass…

by Dionysus2.0 on Aug 22, 2008 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes you people make me wonder if we're watching the same team.

by potato0328 on Aug 22, 2008 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

QO is fine

My preference is for the Bulls to re-sign Ben. If he plays on the QO, it’s not the end of the world. Say what you want about Ben, but I don’t think he is selfish. I think he is a solid team player and his contract status will not negatively impact the team.

Everyone in here asks “how do you replace 18 PPG?” Well, the easy answer is that Rose should be able to make up a good part of that in his second year. If he can also squeeze a few more assists out of the PG position than we’ve been getting, that should actually be more total production than we had with BG. Bottom line is that the team does not become trash because Gordon leaves after next season.

What does suck is that if Gordon leaves for nothing (barring the Bulls getting BG’s consent to an in-season trade), Paxson’s strategy to “stockpile assets” was a complete waste of time. Who knows what trades were turned down because the Bulls did not part with Gordon? BG walking in ‘09 puts a real black mark on Pax’s GM report card.

by Stay Chisel on Aug 22, 2008 5:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Jackpot!!!!!!!!!!!!

That could not have been summed up any more clear…i have said that all along,that even if he is not a part of your long term plan,at the time a number 3 pick could have produced a superstar,so,whatever he is,he is valuable enough to get something of value in return as was the Pax plan…so, losing him along the way is totally not what Pax had in mind,and if he does lose him,that means that your grand scheme failed,thus it’s time to give somebody else a shot at their BIG PLAN

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 22, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

except for the bulls are a miserable team even with Ben Gordon

who’s their best offensive player. the goal shouldn’t be simply to replace Ben’s production, they need to replace his production AND get better production. It’s much easier to just keep him and then improve by having Rose (future superstar), then to lose him and try to “replace” him.

by fundamentallysound on Aug 22, 2008 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The more I think about this the less likely this story is accurate

Signing a QO should be your last option. As the season gets closer you are more likely to find a trading partner. An injury, panic about a gap in your lineup, etc makes a trade more likely. If Gordon waits to the last minute he still has a chance for a sign and trade. Why would he sign the QO now?

by chgobr on Aug 22, 2008 6:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think

that the writers just had nothing to report for Ben,so just saying something that could be a possibility would get us to do exactly what we are doing now…speculating on what they said…..and no facts to gather….

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 22, 2008 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

rlec....expiring soon.

less than one year left to blow gordon off.

not that I"m advocating his aquisition for my end (portland), but it’s kinda possible. no? ;)

I've no signature. Just a sad sad outlook of the way it is.

"Funny how everybody was talking about weak draft and trading this pick no matter what it was, but it was still disappointing when we didn't get #1. The most telling moment was when 11 of 14 NBA executives groaned in sympathy when Portland's name was announced at the 4-spot. We can still get a good player from this position though.

And come on now, really...had we gotten the #1 selection would we have been happy or just talking about how our cursed luck continues because this is the first year that high schoolers (and thus Greg Oden) aren't allowed in the draft? Save it for next year guys...save it for next year."

--Dave

a tribute to what it was, and the way it was. Mad respect Dave.

by faith on Aug 23, 2008 12:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

PoopsWorld

PoopsWorld (yeah, it is fun to say!) is some guy in his underwear in his mother’s basement, making crap up.

I am deleting them from my bookmarks.
I can always hear about the latest crap they’re posting from the board here.

I think Stay Chisel pretty much nailed it though, so I won’t do a “Department of Redundancy Department” here.

FundamentallySound, as well, even if “the truth hurts”. Man, that’s the reality.

Actually, the number of wins they had 2 seasons ago,and advancing at least one round, seems more like a testament to Skiles being a pretty good coach.

Lost in all the Gordon press is that they’ve got problems up front as well. Serious gaps.
This is going to be an “interesting” season.

Lastly, I hope they don’t put TOO much pressure on Rose to be some kind of savior, while at the same time they really need to give him mucho minutes, even start him.

He will develop, I’m pretty sure. Needs some time, and he’ll step up, like his college career. Still think he is a can’t miss and still like the pick better than Beasley. We’ll see!

by rtblues on Aug 23, 2008 6:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I understand your dislike from hoopsworld...

But if you replace that link with Hoopshype,you can just sift through the headlines and decide if you are gonna read the entire article in Hoopsworld….I usuall only go to h’world when it’s something of significance or just the newest update on a player,but they have to write something in order to keep up with the other lesser known blogspots that are gaining steam….not very reliable,but they are worth reading at least once a week I think…

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 23, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

need clarification.

what is so bad about a qualifying offer?
has any other team offered Ben Gordon a contract?

by chicago-homesick-blues on Aug 23, 2008 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Perception....

People have the perception that if a player signs the QO,he is merely gonna play selfishly and pad his stats in order to get the best offer he can get on the open market….Example..Larry Hughes>contract year with Washington-That season prior to being a FA,he put up a career highs in points,rebs,steals,minutes,and field goals made..and then left washington for a 5/70 offered from Cleveland…so the popular belief is that BG can walk away if he has ridiculous numbers and the Bulls are left with nothing of value when it comes to a former high draft pick…and on the other side of the coin,Pax could instruct the new coaching staff to limit his minutes and play Thabo since BG will no longer be a part of our future because he can walk away after the season….so,I think that’s the consensous fear of any player,and in this case BG playing for the qualifying offer,next year,we can’t match any offer unless the player comes and says match this i want to be here,which is highly unlikely and to my knowledge has really never publicly been acknowledged by any player or management brass if it did happen…

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 23, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We could match

$6-7.5M could we not?

by hlac on Aug 23, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I guess you got a point…But Ben would have to come to us and tell the Bulls brass what Phoenix offered him and then ask us if we wanted to match it,which kinda would be bad business because Phoenix would probably say,why would you act like you were gonna sign and then Chicago gives you the same exact contract we offered,now how did that happen Ben…lol

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 23, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um, not exactly

Matt wrote a post about this a month and a half ago.

http://www.blogabull.com/2008/7/9/567917/the-qualifying-offer-and-y

It’s not just perception.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Aug 23, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was...

responding to homesick…I saw that posting from Matt,and we actually referred to it in a post yesterday from another posting..I was simply answering so he didn’t have to go find it….I don’t think that it’s good for BG to be playing on a QO,but my reasons are more personal,that was the just simply “clarification” as he asked for…so I was simply saying…we don’t reserve the right to match an offer,we can outbid anybody if we so chose,but now it’s not up to us,it’s up to BG

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 23, 2008 2:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Idiot

Ben Gordon is an idiot. Seriously no other team is willing to give him the contract the Bulls are offering which is why there has been no sign and trade done. Why doesn’t he just accept the deal we offered him. To tell you the truth I don’t want him to…Hopefully we get a sign and trade worked out.

If he signs this QO we are screwed. We’d be stuck with him and Hinrich on the team.

by illini23 on Aug 24, 2008 2:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think his agent is an idiot. Part of his job is to manage his client’s expectations and he’s clearly not doing that. As far as I am concerned, the deals given to Monta Ellis and JR Smith set the market for Ben. BG is somewhere in between them and his contract should reflect that. Demanding that Ben get paid more than Monta Ellis shows that you are completely disconnected from reality.

by Stay Chisel on Aug 24, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A Monta contract

would be a win for BG….if the Bulls up the offer to Ben to that point….all sides will be happy…..I am not saying I would be…but at least he feels like he won,and we can move on,and if he plays to that level this year,he won’t be too hard to move in the future….13-14 is too high…because he becomes Larry Hughes in 3 years….But to average him at 11 over 6 would shut him up and moving Simmons and Nichols would get them right back below the LT level this year…not saying i am advocating any of this..but in a realistic way of thinking,that would allow the Bulls to keep their leading scorer with a way to still get back under the LT level…then they can shape the roster,and possible make some moves because the summer of BG and Deng will be complete,and the Bulls can concentrate on making a team that will compete finally!

by dakidfromchitown on Aug 25, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs