The idea of trading Hinrich (36.5 million over 4 years) and Cedric Simmons for Zach Randolph (48 million over 3 years) is terrible for a number of reasons.
1. This trade moves us closer to the luxury tax making it that much harder to sign BG (or that much more expensive if we do enter the tax).
2. The point of a low post threat is to diversify our offense. While, we don’t have a low post presence, Zach really doesn’t offer us much in the way of diversifying our offensive game. He’s known for being a black hole and tends to shoot even when double teamed. So while he would provide us with a different offensive presence, the fact that he doesn’t pass the ball much makes me think that he wouldn’t do much to actually help our offensive sets.
3. His age doesn’t really fit that well with a younger team; heavier players tend to peak earlier than healthy guys.
4. I think there are much better players out there, that will play both offense and defense. And if we’re willing to take 48 million dollars in crappy contracts for that 1 good player I think there are a lot better options. Roy Hibbert (untested, but IMO the perfect piece next to Noah), Carl Landry (was great in limited minutes), Villanueva (Not much defensively, but cheaper), but my point being that most of these guys could be had for cheaper and would be better fits

We are one year two late to take the Randolph gamble. It’s time to move on.

entertain this idea last season or before we got wallace? and came to the conclusion that we really dont need another eddy curry on this team. and the only team foolish enough to take curry, took randolph. plus why would new york, who has more gaurds than anyone (except maybe us) add kirk? especially if they just added c-du to the mix. i mean the reason people call him the black hole is cause if the ball goes to him, it aint comin back out. and on a personal level i look forward to dantoni taking his huge “opportunity” in new york and perform the run and gun offense with randolph and curry. im still sour about him taking the money route, i never figured him to be that kind of a guy. but here we are.

Ok,we get Randolph,and next summer we’re talking about trading his fat contract in order to get another bloated contract…didn’t we just do this with Ben Wallace and Larry Hughes…so,like in the Bible……Paxdorf begot B.W.3 who begot Larry Hughes who begot bad contract! Now we get 16MM and give up a declining contract in Hinrich….please no!!!!Worst case scenario…I mean worse case….Next summer,all of us are Bitching because…
*We should have gotten more for BG than Joe Pryzbilla in that sign and trade last yr.
*We knew Randolph was getting old,but that lingering knee injury kept him out of 50 games
*Damn,why wouldn’t anybody take Randolph in a draft day trade
*Larry Hughes contract just went over 13mm,who wants him
*Larry Hughes contract looks like a bargain now that we have Randolphs 16mm+
*BG averaged 23ppg playing next to Roy
*Bulls finish 33-49 for second straight year
*Thank goodness they fired Pax on Christmas eve and hired Jerry West
*Maybe we did need Bg,Hughes leads team with 15.3PPg
*Deng missed 32 games with chronic back issues
*Nocioni averages 13.3PPG in 33 starts good for second on the team in scoring
*Rose becomes starter after 15 games,Hinrich took it like a team player
*Randolph demands a trade after Bulls decide to start TT after his return from injury
Please,I repeat please keep your hungry fat guys who don’t understand “pass out of the post” anywhere but in a Bulls uniform,we don’t need another huge contract to get rid of,and we definitely don’t need another good player that’s overpaid….If we want to get a player between 11 and 17 mil to give Hughes some company,there are some STARS we can go find…he’s not one of them!

I know this deal has zero point zero zero zero chance of ever happening, but that ain’t the point (as if anything we do has a point). Z-Bo has some serious negatives, but he’s got some good qualities that, in the right place, could probably do pretty well.

I am speaking as a Blazer fan who feels he has a fair view of what Zach can do, and was very happy that my team was in a position where they could trade him without getting ‘equal value’ back. Trading him was great for my team, but it doesn’t mean Zach is all bad.

First off, he’s an extremely hard worker. Z-Bo has a soft muscle tone, but is pretty strong and able to establish good post position. He’s a load. He works hard all offseason, all in-season, and has always tried to add new elements to his game. UNFORTUNATELY, all of those elements are offensively based.

KG has often talked about how difficult Z-Bo is to guard, and I’d say Z-Bo is one of THE BEST post scorers in the league. He’s a lefty, which always messes up defenders (even KG and Duncan) who are used to righties, and while Z-Bo is AGGRESSIVELY UN-ATHLETIC he is very quick, and has a very soft touch that enables him to score at will down low some games.

Now here’s the catch: Z-Bo also has a decent jumper, and while not as good as his post game it’s easier to shoot 15 footers than to establish position down low. He needs a strong coach or a strong leader to MAKE him get his ass down low. Coach Nate did that, and he had to remind Z-Bo pretty much every game. When Zach did what he was supposed to, he could be effective down low. His last season as a Blazer, his best in his career, was spent on the block, not shooting jumpers.

He’s purty ugly, and has… uhh… I forget what it is called, but it’s a disease that paralyzes part of his face sometimes and it gets droopy. It doesn’t affect his game, but makes him less attractive than usual. Fans don’t like ugly.

Zach is a stat padder, but it makes him a tenacious rebounder. He’ll go after everything, even if a quarter is about to end and the rebound doesn’t matter. He just wants those numbers!

He can’t jump over a strip club matchbook. He has dunked 3 times in his career. He had the dreaded microfracture surgery, but that’s the thing— he had no athleticism to lose. I fully expect Z-Bo to be the Z-Bo we know and love today well into his mid-30s. He literally has nothing in his game that relies on athleticism, ala Amare. He will always be able to score.

Sometimes he tries to try on defense, but he’s useless on that end of the court. He’s just there waiting for the defensive rebound. Defense is just something he doesn’t grasp, probably because his lack of athleticism doesn’t allow him to get blocks and thus there are no stats to try for. No one has told him about steals yet.

He needs a dominant defensive center next to him to take on the good post players in the league and Z-Bo can tackle the stiff that usually accompanies the Duncan’s and KG’s of the world.

Zach is, usually, a 80% FT shooter and he gets to the line quite a bit. That’s good, right?

Just like how he needs to be reminded/ordered to get his big butt down low on the block, he needs a strong leader/strong coach to remind him to move the ball. Sometimes he’ll remember there are 4 others on the team, and when he does he’s not the horrible black hole he used to be. He CAN be gotten to, with strong enough personalities around him.

That’s another thing— Zach is a strong personality. He’s popular around players. He’s always been reported as a nice kid, but he has a lot of dumb friends. You need someone whose personality is stronger than his to keep his Me-Bo antics away.

For example, Cleveland could be a good situation. They’re a good defensive team and can cover up Z-Bo’s defensive woes. Lebron is a HUGE personality who would totally obliterate any alpha dog aspirations Zach has. Good defenders surround him and his good mid-range shot allows him to either get down low or get out of the way for Lebron and wait for a kick out. It isn’t 18 million worthy, but it is worthy.

Oh, and I know Z-Bo is supposed to be fat and slow, but most of that is just his doughy muscle tone. He runs the floor pretty well and is a hustler (for points).

Zach Randolph made his name as THE premiere garbage bucket hustle player. Putbacks, busted plays, running the floor, anything he could get. Paying him big, looooong money, making him the Top Dogg on his own team was the worst thing to happen to him.

It didn’t have to be this way.

In the right situation, Zach Randolph can be very helpful. It won’t be worth his salary, but if you’re ignoring that and only looking at what he DOES do you can be happy with it. You should not build your team around him, but if you happen to have a great defensive center and need a post scorer and can afford to throw some money away, he CAN really help. This doesn’t describe the Bulls, nor most teams, but Zach is more useful than, say, Eddy Curry.

Zach rebounds and can score on anyone. He isn’t a cancer, he isn’t a bad locker room guy, but he doesn’t help there either. His reputation is lower than it should be, but big expectations come with big pay.

I am convinced that in the right situation he can really, really help a team. I am not convinced such a situation will ever arise.

Mortimer

without any karate skills

will I indirectly be acknowledging it?

…from which not even light can escape, let alone an entry pass into the low block.

We begot Lary hughes as a result of Paxdorf signing of BW3,so,if the symmetry of the world is in order,and New York is still NY even without our local NYer Thomas running the show…the only way the world continues as we know it is if we move Hughes for Fat Turtle and get Lee in addittion with only having to move Simmons…..The world would not work properly if the financially responsible Bulls take on another hard to move contract without getting rid of the one we already have….I Hate this trade idea,but I feel,if this turns out to be the only way to unclog the logjam at the G position,I still hate the “Middle Aged Mutant Turtle” a.k.a. the Black Hole,but,one very good point about this post is,if we have a big man with a bloated contract,he is much easier to move than a guard with an identity crisis that thinks he can play PG in the right system…so,yes,if we had to get this clown,he would be much more easy to move next offseason as opposed to moving Hughes,where there are a lot of less expensive players that can get you the same numbers and intangibles that he presents…In the NBA as we all know,big men are often overpaid,but the intrigue to have big men has never stopped Gm’s from going out to get them just before the trading deadline…so,if we had the Black Hole,I could even see Nellie making an offer to the Bulls to shore up his low post scoring as he makes a run at the playoffs just like he thought he had a steal when he plucked CWebb off his couch for the playoff push last year……I hate the idea,but I see how it could help

or Shawn Marion out there? Or even Nick Collison, Joel Przybilla, Chris Mihm… There are a lot of serviceable bigs in the league that could theoretically come to the Bulls, one way or another.

Yes, Randolph’s a 20-9 guy, but way too much mental baggage / bad attitude. And in case you haven’t noticed, people on here hate that.

Kirk look like that boy off MAD TV, and Zach would kick you all butt. That guy is a GD and admires Larry Hoover.

On a serious note, I like Zach. More importantly, we need scoring down low and there is no doubt his abilities are capable. His efficiency is off the charts. He had like 70 double digit scoring games last year. I like the guy, especially sense he could shoot threes. Attitude part on his behalf can be worked out I think. This guy is mature and I trust him to bring leadership to a city he loves.

You assuming he will be a black hole, I disagree for the simple fact the situation in New York is different here. Another thing, we’re not running a bank – we have the money. I never saw a management so cheap and a fan support their tactics to get wealthier. We need low post scoring, I know you don’t think we’re getting someone like KG. If so, you dreaming badly. Don’t be so greedy.

Since you put it that way…i might want Zr on our team just for the titty factor…LMFAO…just kidding!
Too bad he isn’t on a WNBA team..but that would be kinda hard,because his contract is worth more than the entire Chicago WNBA franchise worth according to Forbes magazine…so,please let him stay where he is!

alright dakidfromchitown, it’s ok if you have a envy for him but man up and admit he has game. You never mention his pros but you didn’t fail to mention his cons. Zachs a good dude, I find it hard for him to be the new J Tinsley or Pacman Jones.

Man up….ok…..Zack has monster game…He is definitely not Pac-Man and not even close to being the bad character Tinsley is…..I just don’t want him here at the same point in his career as we got Ben Wallace,I don’t want him whispering in Tyrus’ ear and telling him"Hey TY,take yo shots,the coaches will only complain if you miss them,so if they pass you the ball shoot,how you think I got so much money"……He is definitely in the top 10 production wise for power forwards….But going in that direction is kinda tough for me….3 years ago…pull the trigger…today,I just don’t see him being the answer….I don’t think I ever tried to downplay his talent,I just think he is not our answer down low….Just my opinion..at this point for the Bulls,this is how I see it…..
Low post scoring=Gooden
Low post defense=Noah,Tyrus
Offensive wild card down low=Tyrus
Scary sight down Low=Gray(maybe ZR fits here)
Hustle=Noah,Tyrus,Noc
Need time to develop=Gray,Noah,Tyrus
I think we kinda already have all the minutes down low accounted for unles we get a true center..and i don’t see that guy being Zack…..
Very talented he is for the right team…..Here’s an example…if these examples were my favorite team here’s how I would feel:
*San AntonioPlease bring him in to play next to Duncan for another run!
*PacerWe need him to replace O’Neal’s production and he’s 5MM cheaper
*ClevelandThat’s the offense down low we need to offset Ben Wallace
*DallasHuge offensive option we never had down low,please bring him in!
*Houston~Scola and Landry now get eased into roles with a vet to run for a championship
There are at least 5 other teams I can think of that he makes sense for,but not a team tying to find an identity…so you got me…your guy is talented,but you can just come over my place and i will have al his games DVR’ed so you can root for him over there in NY….for your health and mine,we don’t need him in Chicago…He may be talented,but he is not something me you or any of the other 12 million Bull fans want..

We have no scoring down low and Gooden isn’t going to get it done – period. He might but I just don’t trust him. You’re speaking hypothetically, I’m speaking the addition of 18ppg down low compared to Goodens’ 12ppg before getting injured. I rather gamble that Tyrus don’t listen to Zachs’ irrational antics that occurs only when the team is smelling bad. Look and listen, we are one piece away from really doing damage. We have a upcoming versatile guard in Thabo. We just got Derrick Rose, arguably one of the top point guards already – we’ll know by February. On top of that, our defense is up there with Spurs or Boston. After all, the addition of Zach allows the growth of Joakim and Tyrus to prosper even more, especially on defense. When you look at it from a outside perspective you’ll see that defense will be primary for Joakim and Thomas. As of now, Gooden is the only offense we have down low. Fans are hoping Tyrus offensive game improved since the Bulls exist of last season. Well you all have another thing coming, because he showed in summer league last month that his finishing hasn’t adjusted or his jump shot.

PG: Rose, Hinrich
SG: Thabo, Hughes
SF: Deng, Nocioni/Tyrus
PF: Zach, Tyrus/Joakim
C: Joakim, Gooden, Gray

Gar forman also has said Nocioni, Hinrich, and Gordon are being shopped. I don’t know how valid Dan Roan is whom broke the news Tuesday.

We could do this all day…I don’t see us being 1 player away,and if we are.I don’t see Zack being that guy..no matter how much talent he has..but,that is some great news that Hinrich and Noc are being shopped…i don’t care how valid that is!
Even for your sake I hope Zack stays where he’s at! I respect his talent,but I just don’t wanna see him over here,I just can’t think to myself that he has a lot left in the tank,no matter how talented i know he is!
If Gooden is gonna get you 12 consistently down low,I don’t remember the low post guy in the Pax era that even scored double figures as a full time PF….I will take 12 points for 6MM,not 18 for 16…..Just my take..But I can see how you wanna speed up the process by bringing in Zack,but for me,he’s just not the answer…