What should we do if Gordon is gone...
As has been stated here a few times in the last few days... it's no longer fun to talk the pro's and con's of signing or not signing Gordon... the camps here have been divided pretty evenly, and the best I can tell, several good points have been made either way. Now it's just seems like a lot of repeating previous lists of pro's or con's, and mocking each other.
So let's not do that here.
I'm more curous to hear what people think we should do if it becomes clear that Gordon will not be around much longer.
For the purpose of this post, let's say Gordon signs to play in Europe for the next two or three years, what should the Bulls do to prepare for next year and beyond?
I would say trade for a cheap 3 point specialist, play him in a rotation with Thabo and a little Larry Hughes at the 2 guard.
Or should we just give Thabo and Hughes the minutes, and hope that Thabo uses the time to develop his jump shot more and hope that Hughes is rejuvinated in a new system.
Do you have a different player that you would target?
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More like what to do with him going
I really don’t think there’s any way he’s going overseas. The money has dried up over there and he won’t go over for a pittance. To tweak your argument, what to do if he signs the QO?
I would assume we’d lose him next summer in FA. So, as I’ve always thought we should do, we need to focus on the trade deadline. We’ll have a much better idea of what types of players we have in Thomas and Rose. We’ll have Gooden’s nice expiring contract and may be in a position to move a guard, depending on how Rose and Thabo progress.
I say we keep the team we’ve got. Give Gordon enough time on the court to continue to showcase his talent, especially next to a playmaker like Rose. Closer to the All-Star Break, find a 4 seed somewhere who wants to become a 2 or 1 seed and make a trade involving Gordon or Gordon/other parts. Possibly involve a third team so we don’t take back more projects.
"Wait, just let me listen." - Scottie Pippen
by OldSkoolSloan on Aug 12, 2008 4:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Gordon signs Q.O.
He has to agree to any trade during the season, which is unlikely, because he would lose Bird Rights.
by Dionysus2.0 on Aug 12, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It limits the teams, but doesn't make it impossible.
Trade him to a team w/ big contracts coming off the books that they might re-sign him. I’m sure there are only a few teams that qualify, but it only takes one.
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would Gordon accept that?
if they have money in the summer, from Ben’s standpoint have them wait until they can wait to sign him in the summer.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno.
Tell him you’re going to bench him otherwise because you have no plans for him in the future. Tell him he’ll get a chance to “showcase” his talents for 2-3 rounds of playoffs instead of a 1 and done on the Bulls.
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This kind of scenario is exactly why he shouldn't take the QO.
It’s just flat-out juvenile in my opinion (if it were to come to something like this).
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, call me the optimist...
...in that the Bulls priority will be developing Rose, Thomas and Noah while winning games.
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in tyger's example
it’s the Bulls being juvenile.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and no.
If they fall out of the playoff race, and he’s on the QO, do you think they’d continue to play him significant minutes? I think you’ve already said once that you didn’t. In this manner, they’re at least being honest and keeping his “best interests” in mind. If they did trade him to a contending team that was going to have cap space and they weren’t planning on playing him the rest of the year, convincing him to go might be the most respectable thing they’ve done in how they’ve treated him.
Maybe. I don’t know. I’m sure there’s another side to that argument.
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if BG has a good head on his shoulders
He’ll make sure this situation isn’t possible, because it’s certainly very real.
In all honesty, I’m almost getting nauseous discussing these BG-related matters and I’m at the point where I feel like I’ve regurgitated every possible thought I’ve had at some point or another. I just want it to end one way or another so all of us can move on.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't be a baby
I will outlast all BG debates, like BG himself will outlast the Bulls!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somewhere, BG is applauding this post while sitting in front of his macbook pro
You know he reads this site. He’s got to.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm,
But if it doesn’t end with BG on the team, you’re going to sell your tickets and sit home pouting?
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 12, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think (hope) he was kidding with that comment
but yeah, that comment about selling his tix if BG isn’t on the team seemed a little extreme.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my enthusiasm will be greatly diminished
I likely would sell them if they were just my tickets.
I’d watch them on TV, sure, but again: if the Bulls are punting next season for some great ‘one step back for two steps forward’ plan (that’s really just a ‘stay under the tax’ plan) why would anyone be enthusiastic going into next year? Plus not only will they be bad, but punchless.
They can dress it up as some cap-flexible, young roster, and they may be right. but I don’t have to go and WATCH it. They’re basically telling me to watch the salary cap page and trade machine instead.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
other factors
1) the TV team will be better this year, so I can’t use ‘ignoring Tom Dore’ as a reason to go to the UC.
2) Anything besides the actual basketball at the ‘love it live’ experience is annoying as shit.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I usually watch on TV as well
I will only to go live games if I get really good seats. I’m not talking Mike Palumbo seats, but seats that offer a clear advantage over watching it at the comfort in my home.
by messwiththebull on Aug 12, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
These are my sentiments as well, actually.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, because we all know
it will be torture watching Derrick Rose blow by veteran defenders, Tyrus catching oops from the former, and Nocioni learning how to play “defense” without flopping :D
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose to Hughes.
Hughes holds it. holds it. hoooolllllds it….
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean
Hughes jacks it up…and it’s off the side of the rim and out of bounds…Hughes jacks it up…and it’s off the side of the rim and out of bounds…Hughes jacks it up…and it’s off the side of the rim and out of bounds…Hughes jacks it up…and it’s off the side of the rim and out of bounds…Hughes jacks it up…and it’s off the side of the rim and out of bounds…Hughes jacks it up…and it’s off the side of the rim and out of bounds…
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just teasing him, anyway
People say they’ll quit being fans around here all the time, yet very few of us ever actually disappear.
I’ll try to do better remembering my ;)
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 12, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well it's not really that big of a deal
Unless it’s a big game, the UC is pretty awful to watch a game at. It’s pretty much all the hacks who fill Wrigley during the summer who just go to drink and take pictures. I’d much rather watch the game on TV or at a bar, especially since the Neil Funk era is upon us.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so
for this topic let’s assume he goes over seas. I think the Bulls use a three gaurd rotation of Hinrich, Hughes, and Rose. Try and move Gooden’s expiring contract and Nocioni as bait for a trade. Might have to wait until the trading deadline for a good player to become available. Develop Noah, Thomas, and Rose. Play Thabo as a SF.
After the season try and make another trade with Hinrich or sign and trade Ben Gordon who might be able to come back with a buyout and we would own his rights.
and then wait for a Wade….. :D
by J Theory on Aug 12, 2008 8:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
anybody want my tickets?
deep discount. I’ll consider it my own personal luxury tax.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends
what package do you have?
by messwiththebull on Aug 12, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the worst-offense-in-the-league package
pay by the point.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Somewhere around 76$ a game for the next season? I think you can move those tickets here.
by kidronmusic on Aug 12, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without Gordon next season.
I would split his minutes between Thabo and Kirk, with a little Larry Hughes until he hurts himself fluffing his pillow and misses 20 games.
Thabo showed me during his brief stretch of consistent playing time that he can play, averaging 11.9 points and 5.7 rebs in his starts…and he shot 42% from three after the all-star break…I expect continued improvement in his overall game and specifically his shooting this offseason. I would expect Thabo getting 30 minutes a night and I think the rest of the team would pick up the slack if there is any.
by Dionysus2.0 on Aug 12, 2008 9:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How many
threes did Thabo take? I don’t remember many. Perhaps if he takes a lot and still hits 42% I’d be more confident in that. Right now that doesn’t seem like a three point solution in Gordon’s absence.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Aug 12, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since Thabo's jumper at this point is still quite flat
I would never want him shooting 3s unless they were wide open and from the corner. If Gordon leaves, alec’s mancrush JJ Reddick would be a very good fit, A Nocioni for Kapono trade could also benefit both ballclubs.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the Noc for Kapono idea a lot
Then Thabo would get all the backup SF minutes, while the backcourt “logjam” is cleared. As Borat would say, “a niceeeee.”
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
though i guess the logjam is only cleared
if Larry rides the pine
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want Thabo shooting a ton of 3's.
But he improved his shot selection as the season progressed last year and I haven’t seen him play this Summer with the Swiss team, but I would expect his shot has improved. I also agree that getting a Kapono for Noc would be good for both teams. I don’t know what Reddick does in the NBA, so I would not offer anything of value for him…
by Dionysus2.0 on Aug 12, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year, I read that the Orlando GM said Redick
was the most asked for player on his roster, and that they had no plans to let him go.
He said guys with Redick’s stroke are not that easy to come by, and they had plans for him this season….but maybe a package built around Hinrich might possibly interst them.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 12, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plans like acquiring Mickael Pietrus to move Redick further back?
Oh, and then drafting Courtney Lee to move Redick even further back?
Right now, their shooting guard depth chart looks like 1) Pietrus, 2) Bogans, 3) Courtney Lee, 4) Redick. We might think we have a logjam at the guard position, but it’s nothing like what the Magic have. We’ll be able to get one of them; maybe not Redick, but Bogans would probably be an even better fit.
by YaoPau on Aug 12, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but alec is a genius, donchaknow?
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
attaboy!
(I think that’s about 65% of atitudeboy.)
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 12, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, when you quit being about 98% stupid, I might relent.
Seriously, telling people how important the Magic think Redick is after they drafted one SG and signed another in FA? Isn’t that about as ignorant of a situation as one can be?
That’s a real question, too. If one can be more ignorant of a specific situation while claiming knowledge of it, I’d like to know what it is. For learning purposes, ya know?
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
i remember the same thing that alec is saying. I don’t believe Otis. Like tyger is saying, their actions are speaking louder than their words.
by J Theory on Aug 12, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont doubt he said it.
GM’s and coaches blow smoke all the time. And if this point were brought up a year ago, sure, it means something. But yeah, they’ve made a few moves since.
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They defintely said it...
And they have turned down a lot of offers for Redick the last few years. It’s actually mind boggling how they continue to praise him, talk about his value, and turn down trade offers… yet they don’t play him, or seemingly, plan to play him.
I have been curious about Redick since he was drafted, so I have followed things in Orlando a bit. And I have no explanation for it all.
by kidronmusic on Aug 12, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like one of those deals where the coach and GM
aren’t quite on the same page – sort of like Veektor (only without the “Best Shooter Ever!” commercials)
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 12, 2008 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
alec
you’re the one that’s trolling by being intentionally daft. If you’re really this daft, don’t post as much.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s daft?
I mentioned months ago that BG reminded me of Vinnie Johnson. You (and hscs…maybe some other(s)) murdelized me about it. Now, within the past few days, I see the Vinnie comparison floated again. I didn’t participate on that thread.
I brought up Kapono a few weeks ago. Again, you (and hscs…maybe some other(s)) murdelized me about it. Now, yesterday and today, I see Kapono’s name floated again. I didn’t participate on that thread.
And Redick. Have I been the only one to bring up his name? Again, no.
In fact, as much as I might want him, I wanted to point out that he may not come as cheaply as some of the posts have implied…so I recalled a comment made by their GM at the end of the season (thankfully, J Theory backed me up), where he mentioned that nearly everyone that contacted the Magic about their players asked specifically about Redick.
Three point shooters are a valuable commodity. Redick was one of the most prolific shooters in ncaa history. The fact that he hasn’t shown it yet in the pros might just make him getable.
How can it be daft to bring it up here where nearly every (acc to Otis) GM who contacts Orlando does the same thing?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 12, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll just send you friendly messages when I think you're trolling
if you can figure out the pattern, maybe you’ll adjust.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alec, stop trolling...
And I’ll continue to say much of the same things you do, and not bother anybody.
I read pretty much every post on this board, and a lot of times, I think people are picking fights, or being overly defensive, or have flat out terrible trade propositions…
But I also think that some people, like alec have become ( whether it’s justified or not) unpopular. And I think people view everything he says in the most negative way possible.
I’m not saying he never trolls or picks fights, because I certainly don’t pay perfect attention to everything he says… but thinking Redick should be on the Bulls radar and comparing Gordon to Vinnie are two things that seem a lot less offensive than the reactions deserve.
by kidronmusic on Aug 12, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fine. but say it once.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does acquiring Kapono
help us?
He can shoot threes, but he gives them right back on the other end. He’s a younger Eric Piatkowski. Paying 6-8 mil just for a three point shooter is nuts.
Noc could draw a foul here and there. He shoots a lower 3pt percentage, but he also rebounds and blocks shots.
Plus Kapono has an years equivalent contract, so the savings would be…er…negligible.
by NBA Observer on Aug 12, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mainly because I want Noce to leave my city
But, the only Noce trade I’m willing to see go down this year is for Al Harrington in an effort to clear up cap space for the eventual 100 million dollar offer to a hobbled and injury-prone D-Wade.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please watch "hobbled and injury-prone D-Wade"
in the Olympics.
I had a similar view, but he looks a like a completely different player right now. He looks like ‘06 Finals Wade without the falling theatrics.
by NBA Observer on Aug 12, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh he's on fire right now....and I'm terrified of the Heat now btw
I’m just being a negative ninny for the future, assuming Wade hurts himself 100 times in the next 2 years, yet the Bulls will still throw money at him.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he just learns how to land
he’ll be fine. This falling crap to sell calls is a career shortening trend.
by NBA Observer on Aug 12, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he's been the team's best offensive player.
He looks more explosiev than he ever has IMO.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to miss the way he's attacking the rim
I’m eager to watch Wade in the NBA regular season. Just please continue to train yourself on how to land after you elevate.
by NBA Observer on Aug 12, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you think Wade is reading that last sentence?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And now, I direct you to my sig...
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What else is there to do in China?
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has been blogging himself, so you never know
I’ve read a few of his installments on the Trib’s website.
“Inside the Mind of D-Wade.” It’s quite the blog, let me tell you!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure he has a lovely ghostwriter
Maybe outsourcing his blog to Arenas?
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why some of us
are in love with Redick, he gives you the same things as Kapono, without the big contract.
by kidronmusic on Aug 12, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so far he's given nobody anything
outside of some funny ‘better basketball videos’ commercials.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true.
But I’m assume that he didn’t forget how to shoot from distance.
And the fact that he hasn’t done much of anything is what makes me hope that he won’t be overpriced like Kapono.
by kidronmusic on Aug 12, 2008 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The larry hughes blog sent him a 'Better Shooting' vid ...
and he improved his shooting when he was here!
Well, for a week, then he stopped caring. But the point stands!
by Prevenge on Aug 14, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KapoNO Good
We can do with out him.
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by ronmexibull on Aug 12, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Post all-star break Thabo attempted 1.6 three, pre-all star break, Thabo attempted 1.2
the issue is that Thabo played 45 games pre-allstar and only 24 (due to injury) post-allstar so let’s acknowledge that he isn’t a 42% 3-PT shooter.
I think next to Rose, that Thabo is the closest the Bulls have to a player with all-star potential, including Deng, Ty, and BG. I could be completely wrong on this, but I see a guy who will be much, much better than Doug Christie when it’s all said and done.
by messwiththebull on Aug 12, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think getting to Doug Christie level is a best-case career
I also am not thrilled with his only real productive stretch being in games when the Bulls were out of it already.
As much as Gordon gets ripped for his ballhandling, Thabo’s turnover rate is pretty awful. I think a move to the 3 would potentially help that, but it also softens the worth of his best asset, which is his rebounding.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
if reports about Skiles destroying his confidence are true then that would explain why his best games were out of it already. Of course you’d prefer he play well no matter what the coach is doing to you, its not always the reality. I’m interested to see a full season out of him with a new coach and a clean slate. We should know if it was just an excuse or if he was really being stifled.
by JSlakov on Aug 12, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We all figured they were out of it
but this is the team that still thought it was fighting for a 7-8 seed, probably rushed Deng back sooner than he wanted to return, and kept Tyrus benched until they finally shut down Gooden during the last week of the regular season. The Bulls were playing for a 7-8 seed for pretty much until that last week of the season, whether we agree that they were actually in it or not. Of course, they weren’t.
by messwiththebull on Aug 12, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I think he'll leave Christie in the dust
I see something along the lines of a Tayshaun/poor-man’s Scottie impact. Hell, I’ll even give Thabo a Youtube video post:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYPR36tppCQ
I think the guy will blow up under VDN. You have a coach who will give him confidence, and a coach who has already called out Thabo by name as one of the players he coveted while with Phoenix and one he looks forward to working with. I think the minutes will be there.
by messwiththebull on Aug 12, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy optimist.
I hope you’re right.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to know more about VDN's coveted players
during his tenure in Phoenix.
Did the Suns actually select any of the guys he really wanted? I know their youth movement has been jack squat by trading all your picks for cash and cap’n’tax relief.
by NBA Observer on Aug 12, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They tried to trade up to take Thabo
which VDN acknowledged during that press conference but it was well known and the Bulls pre-empted that by getting Philly to agree to select him on the Bulls’ behalf.
The problem with Phoenix getting a chance to actually select any of those guys (Thabo, Tyrus, Noah) is that they’ve been drafting in the 20s for the past few years so those guys were long gone. That pick from ATL didn’t come to fruition like they had hoped when they initially made that Joe Johnson sign-and-trade.
by messwiththebull on Aug 12, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
height's only good if you use it
thus, the rebounding. Other acceptable answers are his defense and ability to finish in transition, not ‘tall’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok those examples are
more specific,
but still all related to affectively using his height advantage over most other guards, while still being able to keep up with their speed. He has a decent ball handle as well for a big fella.
IMHO, most of these advantages would be negated if he had to play more against guys his height or taller/stronger small forwards
by gman2849 on Aug 12, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ability to shoot over defenders as well
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well in that case it comes in handy
since there’s no arc to speak of ;-)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he was BG's height
he’d be shooting it straight into the opposing defender’s chest. RIGHT??!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'd be playing soccer.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
I think Matt needs to pull a David Thorpe and ban you.
by rb22 on Aug 12, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no public calling-for-bannings
if you have that big a problem with someone, email me.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
(or flag)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it all depends
on Vinny’s style. He’s probably not going to run the same motion offense that Skiles did and Gordon thrived in. Many here believe he’ll have the ball in Rose’s hands a great deal, although its hard to say how he’ll use him as a rookie, eventually they’ll probably go that way. If that’s the case then spot up shooters will be more important. I think if VDN can rein in Nocioni then he’d be great as a spot up shooter (if he’s still around) He got in trouble when forced threes on the break or contested shots. Part of my problem with Skiles was I tihnk he gave Nocioni too much of a pass because of his hustle and aggressiveness, although I somewhat can understand because in many games if Nocioni wasn’t being aggressive than no one would. However, Noc is much better when his aggressiveness comes off the other players. They drive, kick it to him, and he takes it while the defense is scrambling. I’m hoping Rose could help that aspect of his game too.
I’m not saying Nocioni can replace Gordon, but I think people are quick to dismiss the fact that he’s a capable player because of personal biases. He could certainly replace some of Gordon’s offense as he’s been a very efficient scorer for stretches of his career.
by JSlakov on Aug 12, 2008 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Where/when is he playing though?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
assuming we lose Gordon (the point of the OP) and assuming there’s no trades (hopefully not), here’s how I’d break down the team’s minutes:
C- Noah (30 minutes at C)
PF-Gooden (15 minutes at PF, 18 minutes at C)
SF-Deng (38 minutes at SF)
SG-Hinrich (25 minutes at SG, 10 minutes at PG
PG-Rose (38 minutes at PG)
Bench- Tyrus (25 minutes at PF)
Bench- Noce (10 minutes at SF, 8 minutes at PF, 8 minutes at SG)
Bench-Thabo (15 minutes at SG)
Bench-Gray (fouls dictate)
Bench-Hughes (no thanks)
by JSlakov on Aug 12, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noc at SG?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
depending
on matchup, this is just a loose set of rules and I consider the positions to be fairly loose definitions as well. I think Deng and Nocioni can play together at SG/SF
by JSlakov on Aug 12, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Popovich philosphy....
All you need is two forwards, two gaurds, and a point gaurd.
by J Theory on Aug 12, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, but that's 1 point guard.
and…the rest. I don’t think Deng/Noc on the wings is acceptable at all.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless they're facing Dunleavey at SG.
They could probably defend hi pretty easily.
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding me
Anyone at least 6’6 in the NBA is a good defender, it’s science.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Maybe it can work if by the hand of the pointgod Mr. Rose will not let him touch the basketball in the backcourt unless he’s inbounding it.
Unlikely though.
by NBA Observer on Aug 12, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and obviously
subject to change, hopefully Tyrus would get most of Gooden’s minutes by the end of the season.
by JSlakov on Aug 12, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noc in the Rose offense
= Bruce Bowen with a sprinkle of high post+leak screens.
Please excuse the defensive argument. I’m not making that using Bowen.
by NBA Observer on Aug 12, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Noce has the patience to sit in that corner for the 3?
I’m confident Noce will be an asset as long as the team stays .500, or at least remains competitive in every game. The worse the team is, the more Noce’s flaws are exposed.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
a good coach makes sure he has the patience
by JSlakov on Aug 12, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope so
His aggressiveness is useful at certain parts of the game, he just has to learn how to control all that intensity.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noc is 27 and an (international) superstar
I don’t think he’s changing his game, and I don’t mean that as a slight against him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Noc is smart enough
to cut out the pratfalls.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 12, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He played a more controlled offensive
game his prior 2 years with the bulls.
I too consider his extra shots as a response to no one else wanting to score for the bulls last year.
by gman2849 on Aug 12, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He took 1/2 a shot more per36 than the year before.
Definitely more controlled. Definitely. Definitively. In a discernible sense. Definitely.
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was actually referring to his
jumping in front of people and pretending to get knocked over pratfalls…I mean, his defense.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 12, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an interesting point...
It’s not talked about a lot. I think that Nocioni’s response to the general unraveling of the Chicago Bulls was to try to do more… more shots, more aggression, more fist pumping…
He is a pretty big deal overseas, and has the talent to take over a game in that league. Obviously, it doesn’t work as well in Chicago.
So, I would say that Nocioni will probably be substantially improved with the new regime.
Granted, he still makes way too much for the back-up small forward on a team that couldn’t make the playoffs in the east. So if we can’t trade him for an expiring deal now (Plan A) then I’m hopeful that he will increase his value by the trade deadline and bring us something decent in return.
by kidronmusic on Aug 12, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about a player like Steve Novak?
I think he was recently released by Houston.
Last year, he was 34 for 71 on 3’s…which works out to .479.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 12, 2008 12:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or
how about Allan Houston :)
But seriously how does a trade of Nocioni for Matt Carroll sound?
PPG APG 3P%
9 0.9 .436
by J Theory on Aug 12, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that shot coach from the Wizards could use a raise.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He re-signed through this year
Can’t find the link, but I’m almost positive of this.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Aug 12, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you guys have pop-ups on your computers...
...that alert you when another SBNation site is talking about your team?
by tyger1147 on Aug 12, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always wondered this as well. It's like the freaking Batman Spotlight.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's the 'thriving' community that's fun to lurk on
you all should be proud. :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blazers Edge uses the sonar technology in the Dark Knight
It’s why Mortimer comes here and posts stuff with cat-like agility.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prada
I was referring to not just giving him a raise, but a roster spot. Anybody that can shoot a 3-pointer can replace Ben Gordon. Is he taller than Gordon’s imaginary height of 5’10”
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't pick up on that
This is what happens when I skim other SB Nation NBA blogs.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Aug 12, 2008 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Carroll
I’d trade Noc for Carroll.
by NBA Observer on Aug 12, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Novak signed with the Clippers
When Steve Kerr gets fired, we can sign him!
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ach...
I guess they must have had more clarity on their cap situation…
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 12, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elgin Baylor is one smart cookie
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they technically traded for him.
for the close-to-nothing package.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 12, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he just got traded to the Clippers
for a future 2nd rounder
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 12, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dajuan Wagner is healthy...
...and ready for another shot in the Association.
http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008808120345
Second generation player who could flat out score…he could be like BG pt..II.
by Dionysus2.0 on Aug 12, 2008 1:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why dont the Bulls just do what they intended to do
split the SG minutes between Thabo and BG with a 3 guard rotation of Rose, BG and Thabo?
Homecoming
by illwill on Aug 12, 2008 4:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Because Kirk Hinrich is alive
And somehow, someway, the whore of a person that is Larry Hughes will take minutes.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can somebody please tell me what Gordon hasn’t done because Hinrich seems like he’s got the Bulls Fan base on his side. I remember when I was 14 and Gordon was a rookie at the time. I use to watch WCIU and WGN during Christmas break. Gordon would fill the fans with hope because of his 4th quarter deliverance ever game. I never got that from Hinrich, quite frankly I rather sign Gordon back because his touch is not replaceable. I never heard people harp on A.I. that much being he’s 5’11’’. 6’2’’ Gordon might me undersized but that don’t give the right for people to write him off. Second Hinrich really isn’t assertive to me. I like both but the bias has to stuff for Hinrich.
by D.Rose23 on Aug 12, 2008 7:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That has nothing to do with this...
The fact is that Hinrich is under a long term contract here, and Ben Gordon isn’t.
So we we’re trying to deduce the best strategy in the case of Ben Gordon leaving the team. Either after a year on the qualifying offer, or to Europe this year.
There are plenty of other posts on this blog where you can plead your case for Gordon.
by kidronmusic on Aug 12, 2008 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you think Kirk is getting more support than BG
then you must not have been reading lately.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 12, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He certainly seems to get
support from the Bulls office. I’d like the reasons of that outlined someday. I didn’t have a huge problem with Hinrich until the increasing devaluing of Gordon in the Bulls org through last season and now. If they suggest I am to think so little of Gordon I start to turn my eyes to the other guards and look at them more critically too. If they think Gordon isn’t good enough to be a Bull I say Hinrich certainly isn’t then either. There are cheaper backup guards out there he isn’t a good enough shooter to be our starting SG. Bah. All the guards are suspect at this point (besides Rose who hasn’t even stuck a toe in the water yet).
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Aug 12, 2008 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing I hate most about BaB is that the guard situation always turns into Kirk vs. BG
I doubt the Bulls stood BG and Kirk next to each other and had everyone vote on who is “better” – they have different skills, different faults, and (significantly) were/would be willing to sign for different amounts of money. Since the Bulls actually offered BG more than Hinrich signed for to start with, obviously they think he’s worth a slightly higher contract overall. I get that many people believe BG is worth more than the Bulls seem to believe he’s worth, but they still were ready to pay him more than Kirk.
Then you get into the question of which positions they can play – if the team plans on not starting Rose, Kirk can start at PG until they decide Rose is ready. Not to mention the fact that Kirk is signed and has a salary that will be decreasing, while BG has yet to accept an offer and will most likely cost more each year. And negotiations aren’t one-way things, so I’m fascinated by the tendency to place so much fault at the Bulls’ feet.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 12, 2008 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
if they don't start Rose, that's just crazy.
and it won’t really matter who gets to take his place.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 13, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um...
why is not starting rose crazy? it makes more sense to give him at least half a season to get acclimated. Also if it was sarcasm i missed…sorry.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Aug 13, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he's the number 1 draft pick....
When was the last time you heard of a team benching the 1st overall pick before seeing him play?
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 13, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's never started, he can't really be benched ;)
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 13, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
#1 picks that didn't start their first game
Kind of a sad list but it happens:
Andrea Bargnani
Yao Ming
Kwame Brown
Michael Olowokandi
by CJ Bulls on Aug 13, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And only 1 of those players has turned into an All-Star, franchise guy
2 of them are epic busts, and Bargnani is teetering between solid role player and obscurity.
I’m not saying if Rose doesn’t start every game it’ll be a disaster, but the right move for the franchise is giving him more minutes than anyone else at PG.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 13, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I'm well aware of your decision that Rose will start
But since I was talking about what the team actually does, rather than what you want to happen, it’s a valid point.
People in the “Start Rose – trade Hinrich – get cheap backup” aren’t going to be happy if Rose doesn’t start, obviously, since that’s the starting point of the whole position, but I bet you’ll all be a hell of a lot more unhappy if Rose isn’t ready to start and Kirk’s gone.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 13, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kirk isn't going anywhere regardless
He’s the only backup PG the Bulls have, and I doubt Paxson is going to trade Kirk for cap relief. We must remember Kirk is still a favorite of the Bulls organization and of course Mr. Reinsdorf.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 13, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is full circle back to the starting point that the org can view a
signed Kirk as having more value as things currently stand than an unsigned BG looking for more money, without ever getting to the question of which is “better.”
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 13, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
seriously there are bulls fans that favor kirk too. Not saying hes an allstar (anymore at least) but many ive talked to (i think u too ozzie) agree he is a good player and his versatility is more valuable than gordons offense. Really theres bulls fans who dnt visit blogabull and are not poisoned by the “consensus” arguments aroud here. talk to them and u might find its not just reinsdorf who likes kirk as a player.
also anyone kno how to fix windows stop screen aka “blue screen of death”? im tired of typing with my wii.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Aug 13, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Google it. Happened to my old desktop earlier in the summer...
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 13, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
buy a mac
.... sorry, couldn’t resist.
blue screening is so generic though, aren’t going to be able to solve the problem from that.
by Jaina on Aug 13, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny, I just got one mainly because I was sick of stuff like that happening
And yes, it is awesome.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 13, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love mine
i got it about a year ago and haven’t looked back. i use that and then ubuntu at work. i have a windows boot set up with boot camp on my laptop but i haven’t used it in ages.
by Jaina on Aug 13, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It feels weird to be able
to run 5+ programs at once without it freezing!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 13, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one wants Kirk over BG
except for a few posters, but make no mistake, they are few. Probably around three tops.
We’re done making the height argument, too.
But Hinrich has value as a backup PG or starting PG if Rose does indeed need more time. There are no other PGs on the Bulls roster right now. It’s Hughes that’s the problem at SG, not Kirk.
by messwiththebull on Aug 12, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
wjb, sue, myself? i believe theres more than 3. There is a bulls fanbase outside of blogabull u know?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Aug 13, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but there really shouldn't be.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 13, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't be Kirk fans, or shouldn't be Bulls fans not on BaB?
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 13, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
both ;)
is what i think matt wud say
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Aug 13, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant the latter, actually
although…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 13, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem figuring out what to do when BG leaves is he has no where to go.
No one is going to make him an offer close to what the Bulls are offering. No one will trade for him and pay what he wants. I don’t believe he wants to go to Europe and he hasn’t received an offer from Europe or we would have heard about it. Gordon has no place to reside except home sweet home Chicago.
by chgobr on Aug 12, 2008 7:42 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
There are teams who'd get him if they could find a way
I think New Orleans would jump at the chance, but how would they do it? Julian Wright, Rasual Butler + cap filler (Mike James?) probably a part of some three-way trade involving the Bulls, Hornets, and another team. I get the idea these are the complicated scenarios that Pax & Co. are drawing up to see if they can S&T BG. We all know the QO ain’t gonna happen.
by messwiththebull on Aug 12, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade
nocioni, hughes for kirilienko, m. almond
when are we going to add a 7th championship?
by broseleay301 on Aug 12, 2008 11:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade - I know I'm going to get killed on this one but hear me out
The trade that works on the ESPN trade machine is Larry Hughes for Eddie Curry and Lee
Knicks appear to be hell-bent to clear cap space for 2010-11 and rid themselves of Curry. It appears they do not plan to sign Lee. I would like the Knicks to throw in Lee to compensate for the length of Curry’s contract which runs through 2010 -11. Curry has two years of player options. The Knicks do not have an NBA quality guard on their team and Hughes may fit with D’Antoni’s system.
This is the part of the post that may cause others to disparage/humiliate me . I am not ignoring that Curry is defensively challenged, slow and a poor free throw shooter. However, Curry, under the right match-up, could help us offensively. I remember just before the heart problems surfaced the combination of Curry’s inside presence and our guards really caused other teams problems. Two years without heart problems should take that issue off the table. Curry as a backup to Noah provides an offensive inside presence we really lack. Lee is an option to replace Gooden or TT or can be used as trade bait.. It also frees up the logjam at guard.
Here is the icing on the cake. Making this deal, if I figured correctly, frees up $1.3 mil in cap space allowing us to sweeten the pot for Gordon without going into the luxury tax.
by chgobr on Aug 13, 2008 10:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i like but don't like
I like the idea of getting Lee but I wouldn’t want to see playing time taken away from TT. Let’s give him one more year before giving up on him.
by J Theory on Aug 13, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also like Lee
I see Lee as the type of player you can win with—whereas I see Tyrus as potentially the type of player you can win because of.
I also agree that Tyrus needs one more year…but that this is a very important year for him.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 13, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're not bringing Curry back
his contract is uninsured.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 13, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I hear there's been a big problem with leftover food since Sweetney left...
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 13, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on
Aaron Gray.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 13, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He seemed to be doing well with that role during the season
but then I thought I heard this summer that he had slimmed back down and was actually making a connection between staying in shape and having an NBA career.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Aug 13, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they scared him straight by holding up for him
a pair of Sweetney’s old shorts.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 13, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always been fascinated by solar eclipses
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 13, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if we have cap room in 2010...
Joe Johnson might be the most likely target. Sure, D Wade is better, and if that works, great. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he resigns with the Heat. He certainly seems to like it there.
However, the Hawks, despite a good showing at the end of last season, are still a mess. The ownership, organization, coaches, and players never seem to be on the same page.
And I think Joe Johnson fits what we do, he is a skilled offensive player who can create his own shot, or can catch and shoot. I see him as a great partner for D.Rose, and if Rose progresses well, I see that as maybe the best backcourt in the league.
And he’s tall, so he is a good defender ;-)
err, he’s tall and a good defender. He is quick enough to keep up with most shooting guards, and he is definitely a chore to shoot over, plus his long arms get him a handful of extra steals…
by kidronmusic on Aug 13, 2008 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Joe Johnson is definitely the prototype TSGWCSAD
or whatever that acronym was around here
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 14, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'll be 29 in the summer of 2010
want to give him a 5 year deal?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't, but there's always the Clippers
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 14, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES
Not that he should get the max, but pretty close if he produces the numbers. Players primes are 27-32. So you get three years of his prime plus 2 extra years. His production is not going to fall off a cliff. He’s also a 6’8 2guard. So he can last at the position because of his size or even transition to the 3.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so this is the big plan of yours?
punt Gordon due to money. Be pretty awful for a TWO seasons while staying under the cap. Then hope to sign a 29 year old Joe Johnson who’s only slightly better (oh, but he is taller) than Ben Gordon.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*slightly better now
I could see the gap closing by 2010. He certainly will remain taller.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, and slower
Definitely too big and lumbering to guard twos… he’ll have to move to the three. So naturally, we’ll have to salary dump Deng to keep things balanced!
by Sports2 on Aug 14, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, should we change this site to BlogaBenGordon
Johnsons a better player, 2 guard, and can defend in all situations. He statistically out-performs Gordon in every category except scoring and 3pt%. And the gap isn’t that huge in either category. I would rather pay pay Johnson 14million than Gordon 10 that’s for sure. At age 29 he’s not over the hill. Every serious contender this year featured over age 30 stars (see Detroit, Boston, Lakers, Spurs, Suns)
Can you explain, without sarcastic tones, in what areas Gordon still has to improve? I feel like he maxed as a player and can be an 18 PER guy, but never move past that. The areas most players improve upon later in their career (shooting a/to etc.) Gordon is already great at.
And finally, the plan isn’t for Joe Johnson specifically. But here’s a list of players I would rather spend $$$ on other than Gordon who will be free agents in 2010:
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Chris Bosh
Dirk Nowitzki
Kobe Bryant
Yao Ming
Tracy McGrady
Paul Pierce
Joe Johnson
Amare Stoudemire
LaMarcus Aldridge/Brandon Roy (restricted FA)
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
change your username to CJ BenGordonisShort
Once again, you’re not dealing in reality. The choice isn’t whether to pay Joe Johnson $14m now or Ben Gordon $10m now.
It’s paying Gordon $10m now, or being a lottery team next year, maybe the season after that, and then hoping that Joe Johnson accepts a $14m offer to play here.
(nice to see coaxing Tracy McGrady out of retirement is also an option for you)
Gordon at his 06-07 level is a $10m/yr player. And he can become even better at his ballhandling, allowing him to be a backup point, as well as one who’s better at driving the lane and reduces the ‘unforced’ TOs (like his league-leading double dribbles and the like). He also can become a smarter defender.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it is choosing
Once you commit to Ben Gordon, you’ve sworn off the ability to be a free agent player.
So if the Bulls re-sign Gordon, they’ll finish in the 8th seed and be swept by Boston. Or they can not re-sign him, play the kids and just miss the playoffs. I don’t see much difference between the two.
I didn’t know TMac announced his retirement 2 years ahead of time. And way to pick one name out of 10 to argue. I’m sorry, I guess we’ll have to settle for chasing Amare, Bosh, or Wade instead.
Gordon wants more than 10 million. so you not only have to hope he returns to his 06’07 level even though he’s pretty maxed out at 25, you have to hope he reduces his already low TO’s (he’s in the bottom 1/3 of all SGs) and then maybe he can become a backup point to the 40mpg Rose. Wow. Are you sure we shouldn’t max him out???? I didn’t realize how valuable he could become!
Oh an also become a smarter defender? Like learn how to not let people shoot over him and post him up I guess. Could happen. Offense first players tend to improve their defense as careers go on. I must have missed that memo.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
now who's being sarcastic?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intelligent feedback would be appreciated
And why can’t I use sarcasm when you follow up my request with:
"change your username to CJ BenGordonisShort "
and
“(nice to see coaxing Tracy McGrady out of retirement is also an option for you)”
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're the one who brought up the desire not to use sarcasm
I have no problem with it.
Here’s a more straight-forward answer: you don’t think Ben Gordon’s any good. I think you’re wrong.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you think committing to Gordon has more value than a shot at these players?
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Chris Bosh
Dirk Nowitzki
Kobe Bryant
Yao Ming
Tracy McGrady
Paul Pierce
Joe Johnson
Amare Stoudemire
LaMarcus Aldridge/Brandon Roy (restricted FA)
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
now I understand why you don't like sarcasm
you’d prefer everything be plain-black-white-either-or.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take the shot at great players...
Link to hoopsworld article about the FA class of 2010
With a major market destination, a top tier point guard, Deng, and a few young(ish) athletic pieces (Tyrus, Thabo, Noah, possible high draft picks the next two years) I think we have an attractive free agent destination.
Some players would rather go to New York, New Jersey, or even Miami, but after that, I think were the best stateside location.
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Resigning Gordon doesn't preclude going after FA's in 2010
If anything, it gives the team a better chip to use in a S/T. As has been repeatedly shown, few players leave their teams in a straight FA signing. Why destroy any chance of being competitive for 2 years for an outside shot of acquiring a FA who would be worth a max contract?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Aug 14, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus
having a player like Gordon and being competitive is a nice free-agent recruitment piece as well. I think they usually prefer going to non-suck teams.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think having a player like Gordon
Is attractive to free agents as being able to sign free agents.
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll just point you elsewhere
for the fallacy that is signing Gordon means you can’t sign a FA. I won’t point exactly where, in the hope you get lost.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
What if the team we’re trading with doesn’t think that Gordon is worth the money he is making by then? What if they decide that they would rather have cap room then take him?
With all those free agents around… if a star bolts, that team will probably want to use their new found cap room for a different star. Not trade for a overpaid almost star.
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a sign/trade, the team losing
the signed player is never going to get exactly what they want. This is not a regular trade, and as such both sides cannot enter on equal terms. Essentially, the team losing the signed player is trying to recoup any value they can from the lost free agent and are in no real position to negotiate.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Aug 14, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're forgetting the most important part
The team making the sign and trade has to agree to it. For example if the Nets don’t get under the cap by 2010 they can’t make the Cavs agree to a sign and trade. They can say “go to hell” Lebron and he can’t just force the move. So then Lebron would move on to the knicks who were under the cap in this example.
It’s a horrible PR move to s&t your superduperstar player. Especially when you get an overpaid Ben Gordon in return. The fans will always remember it as Dwade was traded for this guy.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If a team is in no position to resign it's FA, they're almost
always better off going with the S/T. They won’t get as much value as they would have in a straight up trade, but they’re still getting something. Just letting a guy go for nothing in return is likely to be a worse PR move, though PR should be the absolute last consideration in any roster move.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Aug 15, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls did end up
with two lottery picks from the Curry S&T.
So the S&T is not an automatic death sentence…although I can’t recall do very well in the Jamaal S&T.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 15, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THEY WOULDN'T BE
There is such a huge crop of star free agents in 2010, much different from any other year in the history of the game.
So you have to stop applying the logic from other years.
If a team loses it’s big money free agent, then they will sign a different big money free agent! For example, if Wade leaves Miami, then Miami would have cap space, so they could turn around and give Joe Johnson a bunch of money, or they could go big and sign Amare or Dirk….
All this talk about losing the player for nothing is entirely irrelevant. Cap space is of incredible value that summer, and any team who’s star leaves will want to have it.
There is no guarantee that they will value Gordon enough to S&T, when they could choose a player from a long list of star free agents, and give him the big contract the Gordon wants. On their own terms.
Doesn’t that make sense to you?
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if a team loses a big money FA doesn't mean
they’ll necessarily be enough under the cap to sign someone else’s FA. Even if they did, they’d be working under the same conditions of seemingly half the NBA.
I understand there’s more opportunity in 2010 to actually land one of those FA’s. At the same time, as more and more teams plan for 2010, I also see more opportunity for the franchise to get burned. Not everyone is going to go home a happy shopper that summer. Again, look for most of those FA’s to end up resigning with their teams because those teams can offer more money (another benefit of a S/T for a player) than a “new” team could. If the Bulls aren’t able to snag one of those FA’s, at least with Gordon in the fold they’re still likely to be a good team.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Aug 15, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
That we are a pretty attractive destination. I say top three, top four if Miami is under the cap.
But, that post made more sense then your previous posts.
I just believe that major market teams, with young, talented rosters, and cap room, are where free agents want to be.
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If..
If it was so wasy to S&T Gordon, wouldn’t we have done that already?
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls aren't looking to S/T Gordon b/c they're looking to retain him
It would have to be Gordon and another team initiating the S/T. I’m looking more at Gordon being a piece in a potential S/T if it comes to that 2 years down the road.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Aug 14, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one wants to sign and trade an overpaid player
He turned down 6/59 already. He turned down 5/50 last year. Teams in a sign and trade want other stars or young players on rookie contracts. They don’t want an overpriced Gordon.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See my reply to kidronmusic above
Teams losing a player in a S/T have no leverage in negotiation. Hence, the Bulls should want to have BG to use as a piece in a S/T but should avoid having to be the ones S/Ting him.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Aug 14, 2008 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
teams would rather have cap room
than ben gordon. They’d rather lose the player and sign some other free agent with his salary.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we get it already
you don’t think Ben Gordon’s any good.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 15, 2008 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure about that...
Elton Brand, Baron Davis, Corey Maggette…
How many S&T’s we’re there this offseason.
In a FA signing, you just have to convince the player to come over. In a S&T, you have to make contracts work, and deal with the other team. Maybe it will be a team that also doesn’t think Ben Gordon is worth 14mil a year. And they dont want him.
The S&T became popular because it allowed for a 6th year on the deal, so more max money. But, if I’m remembering correctly, the last time they signed deals, didn’t Bosh, Lebron, and Wade all sign for a year less, so that they could renegotiate and sing a new deal a year sooner? So are we even sure that they would want that 6th year?
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis/Brand/Maggette has been an aberration caused by a confluence
of teams with cap space to burn this year and teams working towards cap space in 2010 and Brand screwing over the Davis and the Clippers. The benefit of a S/T to the player is more money plus the option of a sixth year. The benefit of planning on a S/T in 2010 for the Bulls is, they can still be competitive, collect assets, and if they don’t get a FA, they aren’t left with a completely denuded roster and signing second tier free agents to max contracts. The S/T became popular because it allowed FA’s to sign with other teams that didn’t completely suck.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Aug 14, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I hope the big prize worth punting a couple seasons for
is better than the end-of-primes Davis and Brand.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see the list of free agents for 2010?
It will be.
…although, I’m not so down on Brand.
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can find at least one
multiple time all-star who left for free agency every year. The only true aberration is 2010. Never in the history of the league have so many stars been available at the same time. Teams know this and that’s why they are trying to move under the cap. The players know this too and want to be free agents. That way they can name their price and their team when in a normal year only 2-3 teams are under the cap. In 2010, we could see 6-10 teams under the cap and vying for free agents.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's great, and I'm willing to wager that
at least half of those 6-10 teams will find themselves in the lottery every year from 2010 to 2015. The more teams involved, the less likely it is the Bulls land one of those FA’s in a straight signing and the riskier it makes planning for major cap room in 2010.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Aug 14, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree it's risky.
I’m not 100% on board on the get under and pray plan. I just prefer it to the sign Ben Gordon to a ridiculous contract and hope Tyrus becomes an all-star plan.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's about six
max level free agents…
What makes you think that one of them wouldn’t want to go to Chicago?
And if we didn’t get a Max level player, we could easily split up the money between several nice players…
I think that worst case scenario, we would end up with somebody like Rip, Redd, Ray Allen, or Mike Miller to play shooting guard for a few years… Best case is Wade or Joe Johnson…
That’s a pretty high floor, high ceiling situation.
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 3:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it goes back to one thing: you think Ben Gordon sucks
which is fine. Don’t mask it with this nonsense about swearing off a chance at the next great free agent. You don’t want the Bulls to keep Ben Gordon at even the current offer (~10m) because you think he’s no good.
Because your great alternatives are not that appealing.
Six max level free agents?
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Chris Bosh
Dirk Nowitzki
Kobe Bryant
Yao Ming
Tracy McGrady
Paul Pierce
Joe Johnson
Amare Stoudemire
LaMarcus Aldridge/Brandon Roy (restricted FA)
Out of that list:
Max: LeBron, Wade (if healthy), Stoudamire (if healthy), Bosh, Yao (if healthy)
Below Max: Roy (if healthy), Johnson, Aldridge
Old: Bryant (32), Nowitzki (32), Pierce (33), McGrady (retired)
The big problem is that if the mentioned ‘max’ guys are truly worth it…then their own teams won’t let them go. Portland’s not going to let Roy or LMA go. Wade/Bosh/LeBron/Stoudamire are either staying with their teams, or negotiating a sign/trade so they can get a 6-year (and better money/raises) contract.
And the fact that you think signing Hamilton, Miller, or Allen in 2010(2010!) is a successful fallback for letting Gordon walk with no replacement in 2 seasons….then it goes back to what I said first: You simply think Ben Gordon’s no good.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 15, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've said over and over...
Ben Gordon is a good NBA player. And he is a good fit for what he does.
He is not an all-star, and I don’t see him being one, unless the Bulls turn into some kind of powerhouse and the fans of our major market team vote him in.
Ten mil a year. Sure. Cause for that price we can move him if a better opportunity presents itself. But, I’ve seen no indication that Ben would sign for 10 a year. Have you?
I spend a lot of my time sharing my opinions here, I don’t need you telling me what I think.
I think that there are a lot of players available in 2010 that are better than Ben. 5 Max level (your count) and two or three all stars… if you think Kobe will suck in two years, I think your wrong. I also think that with Rose, and a player friendly staff and offense, Chicago is an attractive destination for free agents. Not to mention it’s a major market.
I think that if Ben Gordon doesn’t agree to a deal, and plays on the QO, we will probably lose him next season. Which means that Thabo will have to take over for a year, then if he isn’t good enough to start for us, we can certainly sign a two guard that can hit the outside shot. In two years, Ben might be better than Allen, Miller, or Rip, but if any of them are making 13 million that year, then they will still be overpaid and a burden contract for their teams. I don’t want Ben to be that burden for us.
If we can move Kirk and Nocioni we might have enough to sign a max level front court player, and replace Ben with a better than average shooting guard who can hit the open 3.
And again, how good do you think we will be the next two years with Ben? The predictions on this thread of rabid bulls fans seem to have us narrowly missing the playoffs this year. So, what? next year if we improve I guess we could go out in the first round. Is that good enough to give Ben 13 mil a year? Do you see us in the conference finals the next two years because we kept Ben Gordon?
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure!
I’d like to find out, because I like good basketball players and having fun and good times. I don’t like sitting on my hands until 2010 and hope a creaky Rip Hamilton can learn to shoot 3-pointers. Because I think Gordon’s good, as opposed to you, who think he’s no good.
Because you’re wrong about the 2010 free agent market, and wrong about how signing Gordon effects it….so it’s all just pointless arguing over a false premise, where you build more and more on top of it saying more ludicrous 2010 scenarios just to say in a roundabout fashion that you don’t think Gordon’s good enough to commit long-term money to. And then I get sucked in just to make fun of it, when the reality is there’s no argument in the first place: signing Gordon does not automatically mean missing out on anything…so….$17m a year for Ben Gordon!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 15, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically
I think you’re lying. You don’t think signing him to $10m/year is the right thing to do. Nobody thinks he should get $13m, in reality he hasn’t even been offered $10m yet.
To me if you’re arguing $10m is fine, but $11m is not, then you really don’t want him for $10m, because the difference is negligible, or at least not worth losing him for nothing for Rip Hamilton in 2 years.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 15, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For instance
this guy, while completely delusional, is at least clear when saying any long-term contract for BG is a bad idea. I still am not sure what your argument is…because it’s all coming in the form of these pie-in-sky 2010 scenarios which have me thinking ‘overpaying for Gordon is surely a better option than THAT’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 15, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Why is it a pie in the sky theory to say that there will be many really good free agents in 2010, and that, if we have cap room, I think we can sign one. Or, if we miss on a max level, that we could sign two that are solid contributors.
Does that really sound crazy to you? Cause it seems like every year, star free agents change teams.
Or is it just because I think S&T are hard to pull off. Cause that’s a pretty popular theory too.
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everywhere I read it says
He wants 13 mil a year.
So, yeah, I’d take him at ten. Maybe 11, on a shorter deal.
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wasn't exactly hoping for Rip...
I thought he was clearly a worst case scenario type of player.
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yet you called it a high floor
I consider it crashing through the floor.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 15, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...
Then pretend I never said Rip.
I still think that worst case scenario, we can find a proficient 2 guard in 2010. That’s not counting the fact that if we are as bad as you think we would be without Gordon, we would have another couple stabs at the lottery.
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he sucks
I’m actually a big UCONN fan and loved Gordon (although preferred Okafor more off that title team). He brought them their second national title. I just see that he’s a limited player and therefore should be paid a limited salary. I also think he has peaked as a player and will have PER in the 16-18 range the rest of his career.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 15, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So to say his salary
I think he should be paid about the Devin Harris contract, 5/43. That’s fair to me. I know he’s already turned down 5/50 and 6/59 (both of which I thought was too much). So how much more is he looking for? Whatever it is, I don’t need to find out. In fact, I wonder if we let him play his QO and he then gets on the open market, if he won’t just end up re-signing with the Bulls anyways for 5/43. Plus next year, we can have a choice whether or not to sign him and/or Gooden. Gooden posted at 17.4 PER with the Bulls. If he puts up similar numbers and Tyrus bombs, I would probably prefer to keep him to Gordon, $ being equal.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 15, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you would not want a 32 year old
Kobe or Dirk? Pierce and TMac I can understand more. But Kobe and Dirk both seem to have a lot of years left in them? It’s not ideal I understand, but I’d certainly prefer them to Gordon as well. You could make a case that at that point TMAC is way too big of a gamble and Pierce might be losing too much of a step.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 15, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure that they are that much more competitive with Gordon.
His outside shot is great. But it’s not like we made the playoffs last year.
And even with him, we are still handing the keys of the car to a very young point guard who figures to take a few years to adjust to the league.
And a rookie coach trying to implement a new system.
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact...
Gordon make make us just better enough to barely miss the playoffs, ensuring us another draft pick that is good enough to need minutes and development, but not good enough to crack the rotation.
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PLEASE...
Will one of you that are willing to give Ben the huge contract he is asking for tell me how good he makes our team?
Do we even make the playoffs this year?
First round and out next year?
I figure it will take Rose 2 or 3 years to develop… which means that we won’t be great until then, even with Ben. So all the hand wringing about wasting two years between now and 2010 is bullshit. Rose will still be developing, as will Thabo, and Tyrus. And then, in 2010, we can sign an all star to push us over the top.
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still like watching basketball
So the big-picture nonsense where it doesn’t matter whether they keep good players or not doesn’t really speak to me.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 15, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that makes a lot more sense...
… then most of your sarcastic replies.
I like watching basketball too, in fact, I like the same team as you, and I have been an obsessed fan for as long as I can remember.
I think that I am planning to enjoy watching Derrick, Tyrus and Noah become better players. I have enjoyed watching Gordon many times in the past, and as I said in another thread, I would enjoy watching him if he comes back.
But really, what I really enjoyed, was watching them sweep the Heat. I don’t get to go to many games, but I spent most of a paycheck to get to the united center for that one.
And that was nothing compared to watching the finals and championships of the 90’s.
I badly want the team to be a championship contender again. But we’re gonna need a superstar to get there. And, outside of Rose developing perfectly, I see 2010 as our best opportunity.
Seriously though, I’m curious, how good do you think they are with Gordon over the next two years?
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
better than without
MUCH better.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 15, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and again, if much better still only means early playoff exit
to me it’s better than not even having a chance of making it. I think in 2 years they can contend for the conference finals again.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 15, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't the whole 2010 thing start out
as a play against the expiration of the current CBA?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Aug 14, 2008 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It has nothing to do with CBA
he just can get paid more in the long run this way. Plus, more importantly, the freedom to leave. This is the only article i could dig up:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/kelly_dwyer/07/12/nba/index.html
Chris Paul did the same thing. It’s a way superstar players can keep control over the organization:
http://www.nola.com/hornets/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-3/1215668253145860.xml&coll=1
by CJ Bulls on Aug 17, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a nice coincidence that the CBA expires
Especially with the star players talking Euro, there could be a change in the way max salaries are calculated.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 17, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kobe, Pierce, and Tracy will all be too old to be of any use
to us with a young superstar like Rose. Also, their teams aren’t letting them go and they’ll be declining, why pay for their reputations when it won’t match their production? Lebron’s either ending up in New York (Brooklyn or otherwise) or staying in Cleveland. Wade or Bosh might come here, but there’s a greater chance they stay put. LMA and Roy aren’t deserving of being on that list and for the record, I’d rather have Gordon than LMA. Also, they’re RFAs and there’s no way Portland doesn’t match. Paul Allen swims in money and isn’t afraid to spend. Yao’s not going anywhere and his health problems are too scary for me to want to throw a ton of money at him. Cuban loves Dirk and Dirk loves that organization, he’s going nowhere. Amare is going to be the new face of the Suns franchise, there’s no way they don’t max him out, so he’s not going anywhere. So realistically the only players on that list who might move and are actually good enough to be worth pursuing are Bosh, Wade, and Amare. All 3 of which are way more likely to stay put than not. That’s why you sign Ben, but not if he wants 13 mil a year. In that case, force him to either sign a reasonable deal or accept the QO / go to Europe.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 16, 2008 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Kobe is highly debatable.
ss is the LMA over BG thing. But more importantly, the big 3 you named are the key: Bosh, Wade, Stoudemire.
All three are on teams of questionable talent. I think in the wake of KGs situation, players don’t want to get stuck on bad teams. The Heat have some young talent but the Raptors aren’t winning a championship any time soon. And two years from now, Nash and Shaq will be done and the Suns will be horrible other than Amare. These are prime opportunities for a player to want to leave.
This is where a s/t comes in. You get the player to commit to you no matter what, then use the cap room to organize a s/t to max him out and the other team can take back picks/young players along with cap room. Similar to the Rashard Lewis situation where the Sonics got a draft pick in return for helping max out Lewis.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 17, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
those teams will likely want good players back
in addition to draft picks and/or expiring contracts (cap space). Having Ben Gordon gives the Bulls another asset that they would want meaning the Bulls would have to give up one less asset out of the young player, draft pick, expiring contract grouping. having Ben Gordon is a good thing. But, I am, however, pissed about all his posturing and demands for so much money because he’s not worth 13 million a year and he seems to have delusions of grandeur, and I also hate the negotiation through the press.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 17, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not only players like Gordon in a trade
if you’re doing a sign/trade for a star, you’re going to have to give up something, and having someone like Gordon still on the roster gives them more choices as to who to deal, and also giving this mythical star a pretty good teammate.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 17, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No no no
Ugh. The point is to be so far under the cap you can sign the player outright. Then you can trade whatever to get the other team to max them out for you. Having Ben Gordon doesn’t allow you to be so far under the cap that you can sign them anyways. Without that leverage, teams won’t sign and trade with you because they don’t have to, they can just say no.
Think of it like gordon and restricted free agency. you don’t have to overpay because you still have him and he can’t leave without your permission (i.e. sign and trade). now if gordon was unrestricted and about to sign elsewhere, the Bulls would re-think the over paying stance (i would let him go but I could see the bulls extending their offer to match another team)
As an example see the rashard lewis trade. This clearly wasn’t fair value. But the Magic gave up something to Seattle for the ability to max out lewis. But the key was they had the money to sign him anyways.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 17, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again
you’re wrong about signing Gordon automatically eliminating the possibility of being under the cap in 2010. I should’ve let this thread be.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 17, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
better line
I should’ve let this thread lie. (get it, because sports2 called you a liar, bwahahaha)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 17, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've seen the numbers.
They’re posted like 12 times here. They aren’t pretty. It doesn’t show how to get under the cap without keeping only 4 players on the roster.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 17, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Once you commit to Ben Gordon, you’ve sworn off the ability to be a free agent player.
Err… no you haven’t. You just need to move Noc and there’s still plenty of FA room in 2010.
by Sports2 on Aug 14, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not true. the only way to have cap room...
with gordon/deng would be to drop virtually everyone else on the roster and release the cap holds of Tyrus/Thabo. So the roster would have 4 players, Rose, Gordon, DRose, Noah and that’s it.
So yes it is possible, just not very probable.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um yes, it is true.
If you want to talk about this, how about you at least make a good faith effort. I’m not going to waste my time with someone who’s just talking out of their ass, which you are.
I mean, the information on the cap and players’ salaries is out there. I’ve explained it in detail here, several times, as have others.
So if at this point you’re still not accurate on it, I can only assume that you know better and you just don’t want to have an honest discussion.
by Sports2 on Aug 14, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have the time at the moment to detail out the salary structure.
But in 2 years, what do you think the cap is going to be, 60 million. Well you need to be around 42-45 million to max out a player.
If you have:
Gordon 12 million
Deng 12 million
Hinrich 9 million
Nocioni 7 million
Rose 5.5 million
Noah 3.5 million
2009 1st pick 2 million
2010 1st pick 2 million
Tyrus cap hold 16 million
Thabo cap hold 11 million
And that’s assuming they sign no other free agents(with the mid level), let gooden go, let gray go and make no trades that add salary to the roster (meaning just let Larry Hughes walk).
Those are the numbers. Tell me how you plan to get out from under it?
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
You could at least have given me credit for this post of mine which you obviously went back, looked at, and then doctored the numbers on.
So to “get around the numbers”
1. I take off all the extra money you dishonestly applied (for example saying Noah would count $3.5M when he’s under contract for only $2.6M).
2. As I said in the first post here, unload Nocioni for a shorter contract.
3. Tyrus and Thabo can be held on contingency.
All of which gets us seven players under contract, not four, and room for a maximum salary player. That’s a core rotation right there.
by Sports2 on Aug 14, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Credit you?
Here’s who I’m crediting:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-player-salaries/team/Bulls/
Also, sorry Noah’s salary is 3.128 million.
ok unload nocioni, how? that’s not a given, you may need to give up another player or draft pick to do that. you act like you can just magically make him disappear.
Held on contingency? What does that mean? Are you making stuff up? The cap hold means until they re-sign they count for that much $$ on the cap. The problem is if you actually sign them, then they count for whatever you just signed them for. So to get rid of them, you’re only option is to release them and then you lose their Bird rights. Or hope they get signed by another team the day free agency starts. This is exactly what Orlando had to do with Darko when they signed Rashard Lewis. His cap hold was like 15 million so they basically had to release him in order to clear the room for Lewis.
So you might want to do the math again.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Double lol
If you’re going to credit Draft Express, that’s cool, but fudging their numbers (as you did with several guys in your post, every time to the benefit of your argument), I doubt you actually read their stuff. But ok, they’re reporting a different number for Noah’s contract than I am. Strangely enough, it’s still lower than the number you used when you said you were crediting them.
So basically, you’re a very bad liar.
And no, I don’t need to do the math again.
I don’t think I have to explain the word contingency to you either. Thabo and Tyrus will be RFAs. We can negotiate with and any other FA. If we decide we want another FA, we renounce them and sign one of those other guys from your list. And no, I don’t give a shit about renouncing our rights to Tyrus and Thabo if it gets us Chris Bosh.
————————————-
As it happens (for the non CJ Bulls folks here who are interested in having an honest discussion) there are several strategies to keep those guys if we choose. One is to move Hinrich and/or other guys before 2010 to free up more space in which to sign them.
The second is to execute a sign and trade when/if we sign a FA in 2010. If we send out salary when bringing in the FA, we remain under the cap and thus can sign whomever we want for our remaining cap space regardless of their bird rights.
The final point is that, since the CBA will be renegotiated, assuming the current restricted free agency regime stays in place is pretty iffy in the first place.
Which comes back to the original point, which probably ought to be common sense. You want to have as good a team as possible and at the same time has as much flexibility as possible. Having 5 very solid players under contract (Noah, Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, Rose) and two first round picks providing depth is a solid roster to add a superstar to.
Alternatively, of course, one could imagine a slightly different roster by trading Hinrich/Gordon/Deng for shorter deals to free up room to sign Gooden/Thabo/Tyrus if need be. Or other permutations of these sorts of deals.
Hell, from the Bulls perspective, they could let Gordon walk and they wouldn’t even need to move Nocioni in order to be well under the cap in 2010. But that’d be just the sort of fucking moronic thing the Chicago Bulls do- value their 4th string power forward over their best guard.
by Sports2 on Aug 14, 2008 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok do you want me to post the specific numbers. It’s much easier from a blog post perspective to round off their salaries than to post the exact figures. I noted at the very beginning I dont’ have time to type out all the math so I did it from memory. If you look at the actual numbers I’m never off by more than a few hundred k and it goes in both directions. To call me a liar for trying to simplify things is just an unnecessary attack.
You keep mentioning how we can just trade players away for empty salary without explaining how to do so. MANY teams are trying to get under the cap so the market for expiring contracts is going to be extremely high.
I agree that you need as strong a team as possible. But you can’t mis-manage your way out of the flexibility to do so. Having Gordon at an overpaid price is irresponsible.
Now you’re putting all your eggs in the big man basket? Because under your plan we have hinrich rose gordon deng and noah. So we have to go after a big guy if everything goest right. There’s no sense in adding Wade then without having to restructure all the other guys (obviously there is, but it just makes your job convincing him to play here more difficult). And Wade is the most likely target to go to Chicago.
What happens if Tyrus/Sefolosha develop into good players. Without BG, you can afford to re-sign one of them (maybe even next year, when you can lock Tyrus up at a fair price before he could “potentially” blow up) and add a free agent. Under yours we have to play take it or leave it with those two. You then lose out on those players because you preferred an overpaid Gordon.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ADDENDUM
To make Sports2 proud here are the specific numbers
Gordon 11,355,850 (not 12)
Deng 11,355,850 (not 12)
Hinrich 9,000,000 (same)
Nocioni 6,850,000 (not 7)
Rose 5,546,160 (not 5.5)
Noah 3,128,536 (not 3.5)
Tyrus 15,642,015 (not 16)
Thabo 11,449,695 (not 11)
I’m glad we cleared that up and the math can be 100% accurate. Are you happy now?
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And this assumes
Gordon gets paid equal to Deng. This would be a compromise between what Gordon wants (13-15) and what he deserves (7-9). He’s equally paid to the highest paid player on the team. I would like to think Gordon’s “people” realize Hughes salary really doesn’t count, it’s just a contract they exchanged for Wallace.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
the salary cap is likely to be north of $63M not the $60M you quoted.
by Sports2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also quoted a max contract at 15-18 million
It’s more like 18-20 depending on the player.
So they essentially need to cap the current roster at 45 million bare minimum.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
Your estimations were not that far off…
At least not far off enough to be repeatedly called a liar…
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess...
it’s just easier to nitpick the irrelevant points than the major themes of the post.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 15, 2008 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except, you are wrong on the "major themes"
As has been pointed out by damn near everyone.
And the numbers were very far off. When you premise an idea on having a certain amount of money post on having “enough” money or not, and you introduce $5M worth of inaccuracies into the mix, all furthering the line you’re pushing, it’s pretty strong evidence you’re a liar. Or maybe you simply have no clue what you’re talking about and don’t want one. Probably both.
Or
by Sports2 on Aug 15, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you nuts?
First, it’s only you and "your friendly BullsBlogger " on here posting. Second, the numbers totalled to be off by 1,671,895. I gave some slightly off in both directions. Do the math. The point was to give a quick glimpse and work from there as I’ve noted. We don’t have to be exact down to the last penny in order to see if the Bull would be under the cap or not.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 15, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
Liar is a strong word to throw around…
Sports2 might need to switch to decaf.
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again you're lying
Omitting the fairly obvious fact that you undercut the likely salary cap in 2010 by several million dolars. Add that to the other amounts and you’re closing in on something like $5M.
by Sports2 on Aug 15, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look, we don't know what the cap is going to be.
How can I lie about a future number tha hasn’t been determined yet? It’s at like 58.5 now. I went with 60. It’s a nice round number. We also don’t know what a max contract will be. I guessed 15-18 million. Even if you say it’s 63, then fine, minus the 18 million you still have to be at 45 million or less. Are you really being this petty, or are you just upset that your silly plan doesn’t make a whole lot of sense?
by CJ Bulls on Aug 15, 2008 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prior growth in the cap
2008 5.5%
2007 4.7%
2006 7.3%
2005 12.8%
2004 0.2%
2003 8.7%
2002 -5.2%
2001 19.7%
2000 4.4%
1999 13.3%
1998 11.5%
1997 10.2%
1996 6.1%
1995 44.7%
1994 5.3%
1993 7.9%
1992 12.0%
1991 5.0%
1990 21.4%
1989 36.1%
1988 16.1%
1987 26.5%
1986 16.7%
1985 16.7%
by Sports2 on Aug 15, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Growth you pulled out of your ass
2009 1.1%
2010 1.1%
by Sports2 on Aug 15, 2008 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does the cap increase?
Rather, how does the league determine how much the cap should increase? Do they take into account the economy and whatnot, or is it just an arbitrary number?
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 15, 2008 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To answer your question.
“Each July the league projects Basketball Related Income (BRI) and benefits for the upcoming season. They take a defined percentage of projected BRI (see the chart below), subtract projected benefits (about $112 million in 2005-06), and make adjustments based on whether the previous season’s BRI was above or below projections. They then divide by the number of NBA teams (except expansion teams in their first two seasons) to arrive at the cap. The salary cap adjusts each year on the first day following the July Moratorium (see question number 90).”
by CJ Bulls on Aug 15, 2008 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moving Noc...
Saves you 6.8 million dollars…
What kind of free agent do you think we’re talking about here?
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I missing something?
Joe Johnson’s turnover percentage in 07/08: 11.8
Ben Gordon’s turnover percentage in 07/08: 11.1
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Aug 14, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
there’s the ‘BG turnover’. It’s a stat where Gordon dribbles the ball off his leg late in a game. It may not technically be worse than a normal TO, but trust me it makes people really really really sad. There’s an amplification rate that must apply in this case making it much worse. This is in stark contrast to a Joe Johnson turnover, which nobody cares about since nobody watches the Hawks. ;)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you're being facetious
But just because there will be somebody who takes you seriously.
TOs/48 in “clutch” situations:
Gordon: 4.1
Johnson: 3.8
Wow, huge difference!
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Aug 14, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is this not worse than a "normal TO"
Turning the ball over late in the game will cost you the game, hence the amplification of his dribbling faults. I thought we went over this, BG sucks with the ball at the end of the game, he showed it last year, he showed it the year before that. And you even agreed that Rose should have the ball at the end of the game and he hasn’t even started an NBA game yet.
by RogersPark Kris on Aug 14, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, it's very very sad.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 14, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right...
Watching Ben at the end of games is often very sad.
Now let’s overpay him.
by kidronmusic on Aug 14, 2008 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 'give the ball to BG and watch him create' offense doesn't work at the end of the game, no.
That’s why we drafted Rose, who will have the ball at the end of the game … and pass to BG, who will then score. [Or he can pass to other good shooters, or get a layup/short jumper.] BG won’t need to somehow destroy the entire other team [which he can do, just not very well].
by Prevenge on Aug 14, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While Rose will certainly help
teams aren’t just going to forget Gordon, a career 42% 3pt shooter, is sitting at the 3pt line. He’s going to have create for himself still.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they are going to over guard Gordon
then Rose will be more open or someone else. Having an outside shooter threat like Gordon, a guy who can go to the lane like Rose hopefully will, and athletic guys like Tyrus and Noah near the basket …the defense has only five guys. Someone on our team will have room to score with a diverse offense like that.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Aug 14, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it can definitely improve the last minute play of the Bulls
Just not Gordon’s last minute numbers. And I think the point a few people have said is you can find an outside shooter for less money that can help stretch the D.
by CJ Bulls on Aug 14, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it definitely makes Gordon more valuable.
But then again, the same argument could be made for any good outside shooter, Kapono, Redd, Gordon, Redick…
So I don’t see it as a reason to overpay Gordon.
by kidronmusic on Aug 15, 2008 3:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well thank Jesus Allah Buddah
That we just drafted our future franchise PG, huh?
Who cares if he’s a rookie, he’s the PG of the past/present/future and every time period in between.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 14, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RRRReeeeejoice rrrrreeeeejoice Emaaannnnuel
Or how about
Haaaalaluuuuyaa haaaalaluuuuyaa halaaaaaaaaluuulaaa
by hlac on Aug 14, 2008 10:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

by 
At least we know that Bagdad Bob












