Trade Idea: Gordon for Iguodala
by kig on Jul 9, 2008 10:36 AM CDT
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I know I'll get grilled for this, but I feel like the Brand saga has opened the door to an opportunity for Pax to pull of a great trade:
Sign and trade Gordon + Nocioni for sign and trade Iguodala + filler
For Philly: With Brand 29yrs and Miller 32yrs, it seems like Philly wants to win now. I know that Iggy was a huge part of the team last year, but Thad Young was terrific and basically duplicates Iggy's strengths at a fraction of the cost. They're not going to be able to pay Iggy as big of bucks now that they could have before Brand signed. AND, now it seems like their biggest need is outside shooting. With Miller able to d up bigger guards, they could afford to put out this lineup:
Miller/Williams Gordon/Green Young/Nocioni Brand/Evans Dalembert/Speights
This seems to be a much more balanced bunch than if Iggy as in at the 2 guard. Plus Noce would be great for their second unit, which would be all energy with Evans and Williams. Really a good squad there that could compete immediately and make a run in the playoffs.
For the Bulls: This is our chance to shed Noce's contract and turn Gordon into something valuable. Say what you want about Iggy, but you can't deny that he plays hard and has great 2nd or 3rd star on a team potential. We'll probably have to overpay him, but he's only 24 yrs. and will get even better. Plus he's one of the best finishers in the game and would be the perfect slashing wing man to Rose, which will allow Luol to concentrate on hitting spot up 20 footers and upping his 3pt percentage. Plus Iggy is a great ball distributor (when he's not jacking a few ill advised 3s) and would fit well with VDN's proclamation to play tough d, force turnovers and run. Really the key to this lineup would be Deng, Iggy and Rose developing consistent 3pt shots, getting rid of Hughes so Thabo can play the major backup wing minutes and just, well, having these youngsters play together:
Rose/Hinrich Iguodala/Hughes Deng/Sefolosha Thomas/Gooden Noah/Gray
I haven't looked in-depth at the whole sign and trade implications, BYC crap, but I'm sure something could be worked out.
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I like it...
I’m a Gordon fan so it would suck to see him go but if contract issues aren’t going well then you gotta do what’s best.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!
hmmm
so basically your trading away the two best outside shooters on the team for a “slasher”? Then the bulls have no outside shooting and Deng is best off shooting 15-20 foot jump shots not going behind the arc. He is a very good defender though. But who will rose be able to pass the ball to when he beats everyone to the hoop. Teams will just clog the lane with a lineup of igggy, rose, deng, tyrus and noah. Thats probably the worst shooting starting 5 in the league.
I didn't see this
before my post below, but yes that would be the worst shooting starting 5… They’d sag off everyone and dare them to shoot.
The Sixers are set
They wouldn’t trade their starting 2/3 for Lou Williams 2.0.
actually it'd be Williams as Gordon 2.0
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 9, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
We still don't
have someone that will make a jumpshot consistently.
Though jump shot and consistency don’t really go hand in hand…
Well
I agree, that’s why I said the biggest issue we’d have to deal with is developing Rose, Iggy and Deng’s range… though I have to say that it’s pretty commonly agreed that Deng has one of the best midrange jumpers in the league (at least he did before struggling a bit last year), so we do have a jumpshooter.
Iggy and Deng are redundant
Both are complementary slasher types that score off opportunities, but can’t be counted on to create offense. Love Iggy, but no way to that trade. I’d rather have Gordon.
I disagree
I’d have to argue that Iggy is a much better ball handler, finisher and creator on offense. He’s averaged basically 5 assists a game the last two years. And on D he has much better lateral quickness than Deng.
Lu is a much better spot up shooter and is great off the ball, plus he’s a few inches taller and longer than Iggy.
Like I said, if Lu could develop a good, consistent 3 pt shot, than I think they’d actually compliment each other nicely.
rather have gordon...
i’d GLADLY trade Deng for Iguodala, even more reasonable if it’s gordon..i mean yah, Deng has a nice mid range game, but Iguodala is way more atheltic, can actually HANDLE the ball, and is more aggresive than deng….and he is a better defender
anyways, there is no way in hell the sixers would trade iguodala for gordn & noc…they’d probably just hang up
so why didnt we draft him??
we coulda had IGGY. He went one spot after Deng.
Because...
We only had one of those picks and chose Deng….
They’re draft status has very little to do with the players they have become.
Josh Smith went in the mid to late teens
If the draft was today, he’d a top 5 pick. There’s no certainty in the draft, I don’t get why people can’t grasp that.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 9, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
And Iggy is a SG....
at the time we were in desperate need of a SF….Deng was a perfect fit in that regard…i agree i would rather have Iggy than Gordon but Gordon is our only pure shooter on the team so im kind of on the fence with a deal like this…our transition game would be sick if we got Iggy though…picture Rose in the middle on the break with Iggy and Tyrus on the wings…WOW!!!
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on Jul 9, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Why not Deng + Noc for Iggy?
Iggy is a much much better athlete than Deng. The Bulls could run some very interesting iso-based offense off Rose and Iggy.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Sixers wouldn't want that, Deng, Noce, and Young are all best at SF and w/ Brand, there'll be few minutes at PF
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Now there's an idea...
but what about Deng’s amazing UPSIDE?
/sarcasm
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jul 9, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
They already have Thad Young at his rookie contract
Unless they want to continue the failed experiment of Deng at the 2.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 9, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
True true
It’d be nice to find a way to sub out Deng for Iggy, but you’re right, it wouldn’t be straight up.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Dealing with Philly won't go down anyways
They are in the exact position the 2006-2007 Bulls were in. They just added their biggest FA acquisition in some years with Elton Brand. The team will be content with their current roster, Young, Iguodola, and Williams all have upside to their games. Just like us, Philly fans will assume that the improvements of all 3 of those players will offset any need for a better starting SG, or better shooting option at SF.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 9, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
What amazing upside??
He’s a solid player but how much better can he get?
Luol's upside...
Check out NBA.com’s Hot Spots here. If you take a look at Luol’s chart for the 2006 Postseason, I think that gives you a baseline for how good Luol can be. He was lights out from pretty much everywhere on the floor under the 3pt arc and averaged 22/9/2 on 52% shooting in the postseason. I don’t know where Luol winds up, but given his work ethic and the fact that he’s just 22, I would put good money on him reaching 20/10/3 for a good stretch of his career. How much more upside do you want?
He does not rebound well. Never has
Never will. He doesn’t have the athletic ability nor the strength. He’s a good player not great..
by Blacknight23 on Jul 9, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think
he’ll ever get to 10/game, but to average 6-7 as a small forward does not mean you DON’T rebound well. I think that means he’s an above average rebounder for his position.
how dare you
the only things missing from Blacknight’s air-tight argument were ‘period’ and ‘nuff said’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 9, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
He's soft and wack
and not a grinder… sorry wrong team.
Nice assessment
I agree that Lu has 20/10 potential, though that 10boards a game is probably a stretch unless he’s played as a 4 for a handful of minutes a game in small ball fashion.
Lu’s high percentage spot up shooting, I think, lends him as a perfect compliment to Rose and Iggy, much more so than Gordon or Kirk. Lu seemed to struggle last year b/c he was so preoccupied with trying to create off the dribble or post up. With Rose’s penetration ability and Iggy’s size and proven willingness to distribute, Deng could really thrive teamed up with them. While Gordon is a great shooter he will never be mistaken for a distributor.
I doubt there are many SF's who can average 20/10
And those that do play out of position (Marion, Jamison).
Averaging 6-7 rebounds is pretty damn good for a SF. Unless you’re a freak of nature like LeBron, 3s don’t have that many chances to grab 10 boards a game
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 9, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Right
Good adds, kig and OM. But going back to my original point (which was a response to BK23), isn’t 22 pts at a high % plus 7 boards more than adequate for a SF who is expected to be a complementary player on a championship team? Maybe he doesn’t have a whole lot more upside (since we already know what he’s capable of) but what he’s already demonstrated is pretty damn good.
So he may never be great, but his numbers are already on par with guodala’s and Deng’s two years younger.
Ring the chimes when he comes through the lane because Deng is Mr. Softee
I do not understand this talk about “upside.” Does that mean “potential”? If so, we have seen the future and it is 17 and 6.5 max. These numbers fall if the Bulls get any consistent production from the PF/C spots. Deng is no better than Danny Granger, but maybe worse because they have similar production but Granger is cheaper and shoots a higher percentage from 3.
I would trade Deng for Iguodala way before dealing Gordon. Iggy can take it to the hoop and shoot when the game matters, while Deng is taking mid range jumpers and hiding in the 4th quarter. Deng might be the most over-rated player in Bulls history.
Granger is cheaper?
He’s going to cost 50 million more in about a year.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 9, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
right
In other words, you are saying that he is going to get the same or less than what Pax offered Deng last season. On his best day, Deng is a third option on a good team. Anything more than $10MM a year is insane.
I was just giving out a number
Who knows how much Granger can pull on the FA market. If he’s supposedly as good as Deng, then he will be clamoring for over 60 million dollars as well.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 9, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
with the way teams are overpaying right now,
I wouldn’t doubt it…i mean Maggette just got $10 mm a year, you really think he’s worth it? i still stick by “you are worth what the market is willing to give you,” and really do not see how we can give deng more and $12-$13 Mill. a year….but like it was ALSO said, we cannot let them walk for nothing
so you base Luol's upside on
2 playoff series?? Idk, to me, Luol is way to tentative…I think i’ve seen that talked about here before, but i don’t think he’ the type to just take over a game, where the other team has to focus on him entirely…he is 23, maybe he can develop it….Yao seems to have a semi decent mean streak after a few years in the league
20/10 and 3…i think i just saw on SC that the only active players averaging 20 & 10 (for their career) where: Tim Duncan, KG, Elton Brand & Shaq (with shaq being the only one averaging more than 24 ppg) ....we can safely say Deng is not near any of those players
WOW, that's ESP
I was just blabbing a trade idea for Iggy (Gordon and Sef) for Iggy. Bulls get Iggy on the books for $11M a year and use $9M for Gordon and $2M for Sef to make up the difference….
I think this makes sense as the 76ers need a shooter who can also create, and the Bulls need to free up some guard spots (2 for 1).....
I worry Gordon will sign the 1 year and bolt, so I say if we can trade him, trade him, even though I think he’s the least appreciated player on the Bulls….and is much better than folks want to make him out to be.
Getting Iggy in return and resigning Deng would be a fabulous coup. We’ll have to talk to Hughes about his role off the bench, and if he doesn’t conform, release him….but that conversation is likely happening regarless of whether we keep Gordon or not.
i feel ya bro
I was thinking of using Thabo instead of Noce, but figure that Noce would be more attractive to the Sixers… plus I was dreamin of dumping his hideous contract.
Noce
Makes too much money and I don’t think Iggy is worth both Gordon and Noce…..Gordon should be worth $7-10M. $7M would be fabulous, $10M is a max.
Iggy should be worth $9-13M… (basically Deng’s range).
Thabo makes up the difference in my book, even though I’d personally hate to see Gordon and Deng go, there’s too many guards on this team, this relieves us of one likely unhappy (though hasn’t actually officially admitted so) guy and 1 guy who’s all about potential, but doesn’t have the ceiling of Iggy….
Iggy’s athleticism paired with Deng’s well rounded play would be nice to see.
We work out a deal to trade Hinrich next, as he’s too overpaid as a backup PG (and too good to be a backup PG in my book).
This is awsome
Are we whining about outside shooting? same people who hated the fact we lived and died from out there hate the fact we have no shooters? Well first off I think Kirk would be good shooter off the bench, and if we have Iggy and Deng, we can keep one of them in at all times, and if each plays lets say 35 mins a game…thats 26 mins a game which is more than half the game that only one is on the floor and if we put a shooter on the court with them when the other is out, thats half the time right there… Now throw in the rest Rose will get and we get Kirk out there who can shoot on kick outs.. he missed shots last year cause he created his own shots… on kick outs and set shots he can hit them… Lets say Rose gets 32 mins a game as a rookie… thats 16 more minutes added to the 26 thats 42 minutes right there we will have a shooter on the court if we sub perfectly… Besides, look at how cheap Miami got Jones who is just a shooter..
by NamingRightsOnSale on Jul 9, 2008 4:38 PM CDT reply actions
this isnt THAT crazy of an idea
iguodala did fail them in the playoffs. it became clear he isnt the number one option they had hoped for. now they have brand which fills their need in the post and gives them a reliable primary scorer. the only other weakness the sixers really have is at the 2 and the fact taht they need a shooter. im sure the sixers all know how much they couldve used korver in the playoffs. gordon would give them a good shooter and help solidify that 2 spot for them.
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