An ode to the intermediate strategy

by OldSkoolSloan on Jul 4, 2008 5:25 AM CDT Comment 23 comments

Many fans here at Blogabull seem desperate to trade away some of our assets (Noce, Hinrich, Gordon, Thomas, etc.) to bring in complimentary pieces for Derrick Rose and the evolving New World Order at the United Center.

Some want to trade for a veteran: A proven winner. Someone to push the Bulls over the edge (edge of what is my question).

Others want build around Rose: Bring in a young, rising forward. Someone he can play with for a career. A beautiful tag-team to guarantee six more banners over eight short years.

I’m of the opinion that Pax should do what he can to resign Deng and Gordon and then turn the phone off for the summer. Go play golf. Take Vinny to a barber. Chill.

My reasoning: First, the objective is to buy low and sell high. Almost without exception (I include Gooden, Noah and maybe Thabo as exceptions), everyone on the Bulls roster is coming off a crappy season and their trade value is low. Simply allowing our guys to return to their average (not even improve) would raise their trade value. Second, as great as we all hope Derrick Rose will be, there is NO WAY in my mind that he could handle full point guard duties for the Bulls right off the bat. He’ll need to split significant minutes with Hinrich, Thabo and Gordon in the backcourt. I know Kirk is quickly becoming Chris Duhon 2009, but we need him to provide stability at the point (when I think of Gordon and Thabo, I think of many things, but stability is not one of them). And yes, I know Kirk’s turnover ratio sucked last season, but I’m assuming a general return to average here. Third, I just don’t know who we’d go after. If it’s trading for a frontcourt big (which seems to be most of the proposals), I can’t think of a serious player out there who’s been mentioned as on the block. Brand seems like he’s staying home (or close to home) and I like the Lamar Odom deals, but they seem the realm of fanboi fantasy.

I’m really looking toward the All-Star break. With half a season under our belt, we’ll have a better idea of what we’re working with on our roster. Is Thomas the second coming (not helping) of Sean Kemp or a bust worth trading? Can we get by without Kirk? Can Gordon and Rose live in the same backcourt without it looking like the Big Brim Bar in I’m Gonna Get You Sucka! In addition, other teams will have had a chance to assess their talent in comparison to their conference and may be looking to pick up late-season/playoff defensive help (again, my dream scenario to shop Noce and Hinrich). Plus, Gooden’s contract is a pretty sweet expiring deal at the end of next season and we may catch some down-on-their luck squad willing to cash in their chips and make a Grizzlies-like move (warning, wild speculation: could Dallas realize they don’t have the mojo and look to move Dirk and want to shave cap space?).

Sometimes winning in the NBA is about being at the right place at the right time (see Lakers, L.A. and Celtics, Boston) and I think the Bulls are in the right place (lots of nice young players that could be moved) but I think next season’s trading deadline is the right time. With the squad we have, I think we could make some noise in the East, continue to accumulate experience for our talented young guys and be in a championship position down the road. Being on the cusp of the Finals with Larry Hughes’ contract coming off the books for the 2010 season could be a great place to be.

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I may have said this in another post...

But I totally agree with this approach for the above mentioned reasons

Sounds like Paxdorf may be of the same opinion…

by BAB-Bass on Jul 4, 2008 7:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Right

We aren’t quite sure what we have. But also, we can’t pay Gordon and Deng too much. I would rather have them play for the QO and let them be UFA next year than pay them too much.

by hlac on Jul 4, 2008 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

As the I Ching Says:

“To act when inactivity is called for is the height of folly and invites disaster.” There is no clear path ahead, why not take some time to assess (yes, there are 4 “s”) the team perform before making anymore decisions. Change just for the sake of change is rarely productive. And I agree that the end of this season may provide some interesting shopping opportunities with everyone looking to get cap healthy for 2010.

by Cannoli on Jul 4, 2008 11:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

We're going to have to really chop to make a serious run in 2010

Here’s a rather generous estimation of our contracts in the ‘10-’11 season if we re-sign our rotation players:

Hinrich: $9 mil
Nocioni: 7
Gordon: 10
Deng: 10
Tyrus: 7
Thabo: 5
Joakim: 3
Rose: 5
‘09 1st: 2
‘10 1st: 2

Total: $60 mil

That’s already over the cap, meaning if we’re going to compete for the Wades and Boshes, we’ll probably have to cut Nocioni and two of Hinrich, Gordon, and Thabo by the 2010 season. I’d like to move two guys for expiring contracts this offseason to get most of the hard work out of the way.

by YaoPau on Jul 4, 2008 12:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think bulls will join that competition...

by JustAnotherFan on Jul 4, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

See, I think everything points to 2010

If we wanted to win now, 1) we would’ve hired Doug Collins or Avery Johnson, not someone with no coaching experience. 2) We would’ve drafted Beasley to fill our need for inside scoring, instead of drafting Rose and now having to trade Kirk or Gordon to balance out the roster. And after drafting Rose, 3), you would’ve heard about the Bulls making a run at Jermaine O’Neal or Elton Brand, but we haven’t heard a thing.

The Del Negro hiring more than anything seems to indicate that Paxson wants to develop the team for a couple more years. Since he came aboard in 2003, Paxson’s overlooked a team that, in his words, lacked a star player. Now we might be two years away from having two star players, and I’d be surprised if Paxson veers from that course.

by YaoPau on Jul 4, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

true dat

toally agree… and with rose on hand if hes the “make others better” type of player that everyone claims him to be then the trade values of gordon, deng, and others will sky-rocket. He supposedly will get them more open shots and that will raise stats. Just a quick thought having hinrich come off the bench could stabilize him more turning him into a Tj ford type trading chip for the deadline. I think giving him only 30 min a game will help him out and take tons of pressure off him.

by PTBALLER1523 on Jul 4, 2008 12:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kirk never complained

about Boylan putting him on the bench last season so he may very well be agreeable to coming off the bench.

by sue369 on Jul 4, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

B!@#$% is the accepted spelling ;)

I don’t see why Kirk won’t take the TJ Ford role to Derrick Rose. I don’t think he is the type to publicly complain about the loss of his starting spot to someone with more potential.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 4, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you may be right OldSkool but

there is one risk: if Rose plays well enough Hinrinch may be benched too much lowering even more his already damaged value…

by JustAnotherFan on Jul 4, 2008 2:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

besides

there is the matter of opportunity. If it is true that Denver is willing to put Camby on the block, we should go for it…

by JustAnotherFan on Jul 4, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why? What does Marcus Camby bring to the table?

That would just be a pointless move. Let’s trade for an injury plagued old guy to play with a young team because…

by Juiceboxjerry on Jul 4, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not that I think it's the right move,

but one reason to trade for Camby would be financial. If we trade Kirk for Camby straight up, we’re basically cutting two years of contract for free. They make the same money, but Camby has a 2 year K, Kirk has a 4 year K. Plus, Camby is a rare talent; he actually could be quite useful if we end up in the playoffs making a push the next two years (not that I’m betting on it, but it’s certainly possible; we were in the playoffs two years ago, and I think we’re a better team now). And he could be a great role model for Tyrus or Noah—an athletic rebounder and shot blocker who actually has underrated offensive skills.

Alternatively, we could trade them something like Nocioni and Thabo (or Nocioni and Cedric Simmons), and achieve the same thing (while clearing out the roster a bit).

by arjoseph on Jul 4, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is a great post

a lot of good point were made

by FUTURE12 on Jul 4, 2008 11:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

But hit me with the rec son!

by OldSkoolSloan on Jul 5, 2008 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This strategy is not en vogue...

...right now, given the rousing success of the Celtic Strategy. The Bulls seemingly have WAY more trade value on their team than Boston did in the previous offseason. It might be the right strategy, but its completely open for continued heavy criticism and will take cajones to stick with.

by JockstrapNoah on Jul 5, 2008 11:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And we also have an undercover GM

with another team! :D

Hughes for Amare!

by BAB-Bass on Jul 8, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If this is going to be Derrick's team.

We have to build around him and pair him up with a younger core. Id say trade for shitty players with expiring contracts and get some ping-pong balls. In 2 years wed still have Rose, Tyrus, Noah and 2 top ten picks with a ton of cap space…. tell me that wouldnt have the free agents calling.

by TRiCioNeRo on Jul 6, 2008 9:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Younger?

How much younger do you want…..16 years old?

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 6, 2008 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not only that, but the 2009 draft is absolutely horrendous.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jul 6, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We've been adding lotto picks for years...

and didn’t make the playoffs last year. I’m ready to deviate from that plan.

by kidronmusic on Jul 9, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

After a couple summer league games

I’m more convinced that it would be a good idea to keep Kirk around for a season or a half. I know summer league doesn’t matter for shit, but when Rose pulls some bone-headed play (which he’ll do, all rookies do) and Vinny wants to sit him and send a message, who does he bring in if not Kirk?
Gordon or Hughes or Thabo or Curry all make questionable decisions. You want to have that “steadying hand” veteran point every now and then to settle guys down and emphasize accountability.
Now, this could be done by acquiring another veteran point if we trade Kirk (hello Derek Fisher in an Odom trade), but we want to have that guy.
Pulling Rose and saying, “you gotta be smarter with the ball” while his sub, Larry Hughes, jacks a contested 3 with 19 seconds to go on the shot clock, does not, a good message, send.

by OldSkoolSloan on Jul 9, 2008 8:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs