A Pure, Possible Salary Dump
by MPG on Jul 31, 2008 7:06 AM CDT
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Printif we can get Ben signed, this might make sense for both teams:
That leaves Sacramento - who have possibly the worst point guards in the league - with:
Hinrich
Martin Garcia
Salmons Nocioni
Thomson Rahim
Hawes Moore
Which is to say a helluva lot better than what they have, unless they think Donte Greene is gonna light up the NBA like he lit up summer league (unlikely). I think a Hinrich/Martin backcourt could be one of the best in the west.
It also leaves us with 31.5 million in expiring contracts for 2010...in other words, enough to pair a peaking Rose, Tyrus, Noah, Deng and Gordon with a final piece like Wade or Bosh. We also add Asik in 2010 - hopefully a young but seasoned defensive-minded center.
As I've said previously, I'd prefer going into the season with a 3-guard rotation of Rose, Gordon and Hinrich. But the opposite tact also makes sense: demolish the older elements of the "core" and commit fully to the younger (and IMO, more talented) players.
This has numerous problems. Amongst them the cash we have going to crappy players, the lack of a backup for Rose, and the looming luxury cap. But the biggest problem is, by posting this I may show that I actually agree with Jay Marrioti.
::gurgle::
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Kings PGs
they do have Udrih and Bobby Jackson
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 31, 2008 7:49 AM CDT reply actions
These are indeed point guards.
Bad, awful, point guards. As for Udrih – career back up who couldnt average more than 4 assists playing with one of the best shooters in the league. As for Jackson – really just an ancient, undersized two.
They’re bad stop gaps. Hinrich could be a long term solution.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
well, regardless, they just gave him a 5 year deal
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 31, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Only paying him
about 5 million per. I assumed they didn’t view him as a long term starter but kind of a OMG we’ve got nobody signing!
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
yeah he can be a good combo-backup
to Hinrich/Martin. Jackson’s just there for the season. I’m not sure many free agents are dying to go to Sacramento anyway.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 31, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Best shooters in the league being...?
Kevin Martin? Tim Duncan?
by NBA Observer on Jul 31, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry NBAO
I meant Kevin Martin – it was playing alongside KM (one of the best shooters in the league) that he averaged 4.3 assists. Otherwise he didn’t play a lot, averaged about 2 apg.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Aug 1, 2008 6:40 AM CDT up reply actions
You realize
This results in Hughes getting significant PT – if he doesn’t start (could we actually start a Rose/Gordon backcourt?), he’d be the first guard off the bench.
--Torch
you guys do realize that Thabo is barely above a replacement level player right?
His rookie PER was a laughable 8.5 and it improved to a still bad 11.4 last year. His ORtg is absolutely terrible at 89 his rookie year and still bad at 97 this year. It’s encouraging that he’s improving, certainly, but it’s not a guarantee that he’s anything more than a minutes filler. Also, he’s only like a year younger than Gordon, so the time for him to start putting it together is basically now or never. His adjusted +/- from his rookie year was -.01 and this year it was -3.04. Basically, there’s not a lot of statistical evidence that Thabo has anywhere near what it takes to replace Ben’s production.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 31, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
realize that thabo's numbers are a bit skewed for the worse
as his first half of last year was pitiful due to his status as a skiles frequent bench whipping boy
ah true!
Can we get month-by-month PER? I seem to remember Thabo’s numbers skyrocketing in the second half.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
Agreed.
He barely saw the floor until January.
Thabo’s offensive numbers last year as a starter:
22 G/ 31.7 MPG/ 46.4% FG/ 28.6% 3PT/ 11.9 PPG/ 5.7 RPG/ 2.7 APG/ 2.9 FTA/ 10.1 FGA
by messwiththebull on Aug 2, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I never said Thabo could replace BG' production;
only replied to the guy that said this would result in Hughes getting significant playing time.
The Game chose him !
Thabo would get
All of the backup SF minutes with Noc gone. How many minutes does Thabo get per game in this plan?
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Swede, but if he can’t be the first guard of the bench AND the backup SF.
--Torch
heh
I assumed he was talking about commenter ‘swede’
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 31, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
And yes, you can start a Rose/Gordon backcourt.
Thabo comes in if you particularly need defense at times (or when the lead is so big thanks to Rose/Gordon).
The Game chose him !
Blech
There better be picks involved. Like, Sacramento’s unprotected 1st rounder.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
Most Realistic
I think the most realistic option for Miller is Gooden, SImmons & Gray. I posted it in the other thread, and it works in the trade machine. I gives Sacramento cap relief in 2009 and gives the Bulls cap relief in 2010. Miller is also a much better fit than Gooden with his size, shooting, and passing.
this puts the Bulls closer to the luxury tax though.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 31, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
it also adds salary to 2008-09 by subbing Gooden (expiring) for Noce
which is not what the Bulls want to do, I would think anyway.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 31, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
that's what I mean.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 31, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe tinkering with it some
would make the 2008-9 salary difference less to prevent luxury tax. I just don’t think Sac taking Nocioni is realistic. They’re in cap cutting mode, so it doesn’t make any sense to take on an overpaid guy with a long contract for Miller, whose contract is up in 2010 along with Abdur-Rahim, Kenny Thomas, and others. It makes no snes financially or basketball wise, but centering the deal around Gooden for Miller make some sense for both teams.
I don't think it's that realistic either
but a man can hope.
You brought up SAR, but I’d bet the Kings are hoping he retires due to creaky knees. Turns out Rod Thorn was right.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 31, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
The more I think about this
it’s not a bad deal for the Kings. They can try and get in on 2010 themselves, but realistically they’re not a FA destination. And it’s not like their core is so young that Hinrich/Noc screws up some rebuilding plan.
But for the Bulls…I’d hope they could get more for Hinrich, but maybe that’s too much to ask, and ditching Noc is a plus in itself. The Bulls would have to sign a backup PG, for one thing.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 31, 2008 10:44 AM CDT reply actions
I just can't see it.
Paxson looks like a big loser if he does this deal. Admittedly, he shipped out Ben Wallace for crap-a HUGE admission of failure on his part-but I don’t see how he could possibly do the same with the two other guys he has signed to long-term deals. There’s no victory for the Bulls in this trade, even if it makes financial sense.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
Paging Duuuuuuuuuu
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 31, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Jason Williams?
Chris Quinn? Carlos Arroyo?
That’s all I could quickly come up with. All were bad on defense but mediocre on offense.
Carlos Arroyo would be fine as a backup PG. They could also sign someone from the D-League
like say Earl Calloway. He’d be really cheap and he’s been very effective in the D-League, which isn’t obviously a great indication of future success, but if all we need is someone to come in and not screw up for 10-15 mins a game then he’s a guy that could do that I think
by fundamentallysound on Jul 31, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
My feeling is that
the Thabo/BG lineup can work at guard…to a point, and that will be what’s on the floor when Rose isn’t. Between BG and Sefo, they can at least bring the ball up.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
A backcourt of (solely) Rose, Arroyo (for example), Gordon and Thabo...
...does not scare me for next year. It doesn’t excite me all that much, and I think they’d need a better ball-handling version of Thabo for the future to have one backup between the two spots to make a permanent solution. Such person, w/ Rose and Gordon, does somewhat excite me three years down the road. I think.
I'm pretty sure that prediction was copyrighted last year.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
I have no doubt it will be repeated every year,
until they sign extensions anyway, at which point Thabo and Ty become the old and hopeless guys who are killing the cap. ;-)
(For the record, I hope they do have breakout years)
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
I agree
one way or the other, good or bad, their production will end all speculation.
by messwiththebull on Aug 2, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
What about this as a salary dump?
I don’t know how this looks, but:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1981356612016&teams=1144&te=&cash=
Atlanta gets Hughes and Hinrich, and we get Bibby for a year and Pachulia for a year [but both their contracts are expiring – ooh, expiring contracts]. This depends on … well, I think Bibby sucks, and have no idea what Pachulia does. But Hinrich is young and still developing – while the Hawks have their PG of the future in Law, they get an immediate upgrade for the present if Hinrich can play [instead of last year], and Hughes is serviceable. We get a little more big man depth, clear a guard out of the rotation and 4 million in cap room for the present [and sign BG to something around $10 million for 6 years?], and have expiring contracts to offer to people for stuff down the line. [And if we don’t spend that money, we then have money for the 2010 sweepstakes. Or we invest in the less star-studded 2009. Or we tie up Tyrus. ... Or something else? I dunno.
Acie Law - PG of the future?
I will be very surprised if Acie Law is ever as good as Hinrich already is. I think the chances of that happening are slim to none.
Well, I don't know much about the Hawks
except that they like drafting short power forwards. And that Horford and Joe Johnson are very, very good.
He was their first-round draft pick a year or two ago, so I made a leap of faith. I’ll defer to your judgement, though.
Law sucking makes this move even easier to do. It works salary-wise, and gets Larry Hughes out of the way. If they really want Hinrich, we could even get Horford. Well … OK, probably not. That would mess the Hawks up a lot.
Zaza is at the very least a second center – one to sub in before Gray. It still feels like by making this trade we’d be spinning our wheels a bit.
Replace 'short power forwards'
with ‘10 forwards and nobody at any other position’.
No comment about the trade
But this post gives me an excuse to break out my nickname for Pachulia: “Joey” Zaza Pachulia.
Any Godfather fans in the house? Okay, any Godfather III hands in the house?
(And yes, I know that it was Joey Zasa.)
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
me = extra stoopid
that was supposed to be a reply.
okay, i’m going to sleep.
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