Rumor: Nocioni/Simmons to Kings for Brad Miller
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 9:54 AM CDT
212 comments
It's late July, we're all depressed (except those on the tough-talk express) over the Deng/Gordon contract stalemates. So I'll link to a rumor (via the RealGM board) for the sake of new discussion:
The Bulls and Kings are having on going trade talks that could send Miller back to Chicago. The Bulls would like to send Forward Andres Nocioni, a future first round pick and Forward Cedric Simmons to the Kings for the former All-Star Center. Although the Kings are pushing for the Bulls to replace Simmons with Joakim Noah.
The Bulls are interested in making the trade, but it will likely not occur until Ben Gordon and Loul Deng’s situations are resolved. The Bulls do not want to make any moves until they have straitened out both players contract issues.
(oh, so the Deng/Gordon thing still depresses this too...)
It's from one of those message board legend-types who claim to have inside sources and come through once in a great while. So take of this what you like.
If it's without Noah, it's a pretty great deal. The only problem is that the Bulls are taking back slightly more salary, and thus are further creeping towards the luxury tax. But they'd have until May to get back under if it's the team isn't winning enough to satisfy the Chairman.
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But with Noah included,
it’s a terrible deal for the Bulls, in their situation (you know, factoring age, talent, etc, as always) :-(
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on Jul 29, 2008 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like that deal a lot
provided it’s without Noah, the extra salary is a worry though. If they include Noah in such a deal I might have to shut down the Bulls fandom for a while as that will just be the Ben Wallace – Tyson Chandler debacle all over again, and I don’t know if I can handle that again.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Someone please find video of that footrace
between Brad Miller and Chris Kaman. Good God. I thought we want to be a running team.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Jul 29, 2008 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you can't run for 48 minutes straight and Brad Miller is a great passer in the half-court set
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I forgot about his passing. Especially with the high screen and rolls we want to run that would be a fantastic asset. JoNo’s passing is good too though is the thing…
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Jul 29, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that Noah's passing isn't of limited value until he make a guy guard him
away from the basket.
by Scotter on Jul 29, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah and no one's guarding him when he's shooting below 20% on jumpers
with that weird sideways spinny-shot rotation thing he does
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And not all five guys run down the court.
He’s a great fit offensively and a good fit defensively. There’s a reason he has has consistently a high adjusted +/-. He was +9 last year.
by Scotter on Jul 29, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's also a high plus/minus guy
in 2004-05, 05-06, and even in 06-07 he was +3 and that was in a really bad year for him when he had injury troubles IIRC.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe HSCS told me historical +/- is more important than one year
so that trend tends to support Miller’s case as well. Also, he expires in 2010 (hooray!)
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2010
Seriously. Preserves our options. He’ll be 34 or so and even if his health (a concern) isn’t good, he’ll still have value.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Jul 29, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
more sample is usually better
and it’s also important to remember that a +/- in Miller’s case could just mean he’s better than Kenny Thomas.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, that is very true.
Kenny Thomas is TERRIBLE.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said below, his adjusted +/- has consistently been very good.
And the bad backup effect isn’t a factor in adjusted according to Rosenbaum and Lewin.
by Scotter on Jul 29, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny Thomas hasn't played this year
His +/- would be related to a combination of: Artest/Moore, Moore/Hawes – when he did play, he usually played big minutes.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 out of the last 4 years,
Brad Miller has had at least a +9 adjusted +/- and was in the top 15 in the league all three years. The lone exception was the injury plagued 06/07 season. That kind of consstent performance over time is very meaningful.
by Scotter on Jul 29, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's another reason I don't want the Kings to trade Miller
He’s valuable on the court for Martin and as a tutor to Thompson/Hawes over the next 2 season. The Kings just are flat out better with Miller than they are with Artest which is something I’m not sure everyone, including Kings fans, quite get.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
love the trade
if it’s not noah. i’d totally welcome miller back in a bulls uni.
gets rid of noc and gets us a true C which i think we need. gray should not be our #2 option at the 5. but at the same time not a huge lumbering guy – no he’s not fast, but he’ll be great for when we need to slow the game down. and yes, his passing is very good.
by Jaina on Jul 29, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gray's out of the picture
heck, if he could somehow be included instead of Noah pack the man’s hostess stash.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*just realized you said Gray should NOT be our #2 option at center
sorry. Joke stays, though.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On another note
What’s the situation with regard to his pot-smoking? Is there a suspension?
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Jul 29, 2008 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who?
As you could be referring to 75% of the league…:)
by smash! on Jul 29, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Miller
Sorry, thought that was self-explanatory cause I’d been commenting elsewhere but it isn’t.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Jul 29, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest
I thought you meant Noah there.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Jul 29, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
first 5 games of this season
I had forgotten about that.
If the Bulls are scared off for that reason, they’re loony.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he likes headbands
Maybe he plays, but there certainly won’t be any Brad Miller charity golf tournaments.
by NBA Observer on Jul 29, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the headband rule left when Skiles did
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a Reinsdorf thing, Skiles just took the blame
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jul 30, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would help a lot
we’re anemic at center. Miller gives a skilled seven footer. The business with Noah is absurd, of course – we’d be overpaying grossly. But Sac wants to give that spot to Mr. Hawes, and they’ll eventually deal.
Very interesting. Gonna look up his contract now….
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 29, 2008 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you undervalue Petries stubbornnes
Dude won’t do a trade he doesn’t like. I kid you not.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IW
I don’t think he’ll do this deal because the kIngs duplicate what they have with Salmons and Garcia in Noc. Why bother?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You never know with Petrie
Wasn’t it said he really liked Noah, and they wer considering trading up? Plus, I’m not sure how much he values picks. Besides, Noc might be a player he really likes.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL at "Although the Kings are pushing for the Bulls to replace Simmons with Joakim Noah. "
Yeah, and the Bulls are pushing for the Kings to accept Hughes instead of Simmons. Great Jesus.
by messwiththebull on Jul 29, 2008 10:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
actually if the Bulls took out Simmons and added Hughes and the Kings added Kenny Thomas
that would give us two big expiring deals for 2010, get rid of Hughes and the logjam problems he presents, allow Thabo to play Noce’s SF minutes. Basically it’s the perfect trade.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
they'd have to "Tim Thomas" Kenny Thomas though
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Kenny is a malcontent
(I’m not sure he isn’t)
I guess I just see it differently for useless big men as opposed to useless guards like Hughes. With Hughes he’ll come in and shoot. At least you can tell Thomas to go in and foul.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's true
oh and another useful thing about the deal is that it would shave off 890 k off the payroll for this year, which could go to paying Ben and Luol and remaining under the luxury tax. sign me up for that deal.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if they have Brad Miller then if nothing else works the Bulls can just
pay Memphis to take Drew Gooden sometime before the trade deadlne. And the luxury tax doesn’t become an issue. He can be the 08/09 Kurt Thomas
by Scotter on Jul 29, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
If we got Miller, I could see Gooden being traded to a team wanting his contract. I like Miller as a fit for us too. He brings a totally different skill set than Tyus or Noah, and I think we could really use him for high ball screen pick & pop action. I think replacing Gooden with Miller gives us a much better rotation at the 4/5 with Tyrus and Noah. He’s a better shooter, better passer, and his size would help on defense. And I worry that if we didn’t get rid of Gooden we could run into the same problem as last year where Noah and Tyrus wouldn’t get enough playing time to fully judge their development.
by rb22 on Jul 29, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that'd be beautiful.
I like Miller as the 3rd big far more than Gooden.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd prefer to start him with Tyrus
and bring Noah off the bench. But yes, it’s encouraging. A good-Kirk + expiriing gooden trade could net a lot at a deadline.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 29, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, if we were able to dump Hughes in the Miller trade as well as Noce
(by taking back Kenny Thomas) then we might not even need to trade Kirk as he could be the third guard in the rotation (DR/BG/KH) and Thabo could be relegated mostly to backup SF. That seems like the best fit to me, especially since Kirk is still a good player and his contract is de-escalating so shifting him to an off the bench role would be great (he could get 24 minutes a night backing up Gordon and Rose: SG – BG = 33 mins, Kirk =9 mins and PG – Rose: 33 mins, Kirk = 15 mins. Then give Thabo whatever minutes he can get behind Deng and 5 or 6 minutes a game or so at the 2 spot. That’s pretty ideal in my view.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't a three need to shoot?
Or would you accept his offensive liability at the three in the hopes he can grow to be a defensive force? I was much a fan of Thabo his rookie year, though I’m not sure what’s happened of late (other than he hasn’t developed as much as people would like, which could mean many things). Any chance I can get a cliffnotes version of his development?
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thabo can slash a bit, which is also important for 3
and his shooting was improving towards the end of last year IIRC, but over his career his shooting has been pretty ugly, but for 10 minutes a game backing up the 3 spot and providing good D, I don’t mind it. And for the minutes when he’s playing the 2, just tell him to attack the bucket.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too
as i said above, i think it’s much better to have a true C – noah is fine but he still needs to bulk, and i don’t like drew much at the 5 though he does alright if necessary. i think miller would be a great fit.
by Jaina on Jul 29, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on Noah
I still see Noah as a 4, but hey, I’m the kook who still sees Ty as a 3.
by messwiththebull on Jul 29, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
890k
890k translates into being able to pay an additional 6.8 million over 6 years.
by Jamaicanpi on Jul 29, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could make arguments to make this work from both sides
But I easily see it not happening. It would require A) Kings actually valuing Hughes, B) Kings moving Artest, C) Bulls giving “Tim Thomas”-ing Thomas. I think those are all individually possible, but the odds of them all coming to fruition are long at best. I think that if one side unanimously would agree to the trade (Chicago), its probably not going to happen.
--Torch
by torch on Jul 29, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry Hughes is what Kevin Martin would be
if he broke two ankles, lost the ability to shoot the ball, decided to be like Artest and start a rap career, and stopped practicing with Thorpe. and doesn’t Hughes get paid more?
No, thank-you-very-much.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Kings fan
I hate this idea on a variety of levels. Noc has no appeal to me. Noah has no appeal to me. If Simmons is expendable to the Bulls he clearly isn’t worth much to the Kings future. So what’s the point for the Kings to do this? To get Noah? No thanks you guys can keep him. I’d rather the Kings keep Brad Miller and trade all their other veterans than the other way around.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What do you think of Spencer Hawes so far?
by Scotter on Jul 29, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some good things/bad things
I don’t care enough about what Joakim Noah does defensively to make it a priority to move Brad Miller before the KIngs can afford to lose him. He’s just too valuable for the Kings offensively to lose, and Noah isn’t good enough defensively to make up for that loss. And that’s the player, reportedly, that the Bulls don’t wanna lose.
Why would the Kings need Noc? They already have role players and SF’s. Again, and I say again, why Noc? Because the Bulls know it’s time to move him and they regret his deal probably. Paxson is trying to dig himself out of this bad hole he created, and by doing so, this type of dumb rumor which makes little to no sense for the Kings has come out.
Cedric Simmons, whom I know nothing about, is probably not a player who provides help this season or next like Miller can. So why would the Kings want to trade Miller for Noc?
I don’t think Miller and the Bulls are natural fits, although the arguments for moving Noc certainly helps the Bulls just as much as I think Miller can offensively.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Artest is going...going...practically gone
He won’t be with the Kings on opening day. Petrie knows this.
by NBA Observer on Jul 29, 2008 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
does he know this because he traded him tonight?
come on, NBAO. That fake-prescience was lame even for you.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't followed the news updates last night
I expected Artest to be traded, just not so soon.
by NBA Observer on Jul 30, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Shawes himself
I think there are some good/bad things (sorry that wasn’t clear when I launched into my Brad Miller diatribe) about him. I definitely prefer Jason Thompson to Joakim Noah, and that’s my personal preference.
Shawes has skills around the basket, blocking shots (surprisingly), passing skills, and hitting a J occasionally (but definitely not in Summer League).
On the negative end, his man to man defense needs work because, like Thompson, he needs to add lower body strength to become better in that area. I also think he needs to settle down and figure out what type of shots he wants to take before he gets on the court so he has a plan of attack that the Kings can count on and game plan on for.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks. I watched him a lot in college because it seemed likely
the Bulls were going to end up drafting him. I thought he was skilled enough that he’d eventually make it. Your summary sounds like what I expected.
by Scotter on Jul 29, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you rather have Hawes or Noah at this point?
Assuming all things were equal? Noah? Hawes? I’m just curious. (I’d definitely prefer Hawes over Noah but that’s me.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noah is the logcal pick because of the way
he gets to the FT line, offensive rebounds, and plays defense. I just wish he had a chance at developing a jumpshot. I thought Noah would be the better player, but I thought Hawes was a better fit with Deng and Thomas than Noah because of his jumpshot at the time of the draft.
by Scotter on Jul 29, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably depends on the fit
Noah’s never really going to be much of a scorer, so if you have other guys who can do that (which we don’t, really, right now), he’d be a great defensive-minded center. Hawes seems like basically the opposite, probably at about the same level.
by potato0328 on Jul 29, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If only nba teams could combine players
Joaquim Hawes would be a beast.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We thought the same thing about Curry/Chandler
by paxson43 on Jul 29, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
We eventually came to realize it would like combining Baby Huey and Edward Scissorhands.
by messwiththebull on Jul 29, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the pick is also being offered
Which is the only reason I’d consider adding Noc. Noah + pick is def worth the troubles of dealing with Noc.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he was worth the trouble
Every person on BAB would be aghast. As it stands, it seems like many are overjoyed to see Noc go away similar to the way I’m ready to see Artest just go away. No thanks on the draft pick. Paxson only makes lateral moves for the Bulls, and he doesn’t offer equal value in what he gives up unless the other team offers it. This is trash for the Kings, and even if they want Noah, what have they really succeeded in accomplishing?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I guess
I like Miller, and would rather him than Noc. But if we git rid of Artest and Kenny, having a three that can play the four come in won’t be such a bad thing, would it? I definitely think your overvaluing the teach-the-kids aspect, but I’m also sure we’re also undervaluing his ability-to-keep-the-team winning contribution. However, a draft pick is a useful, useful thing. Wait, what’s Noc’s cap numbers? Anyone have the specifics?
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's got 4 years left
At about 8-10 mil per every year or there about’s. That’s another reason I said no thanks.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually he's on the books for 8 mil this year
and it declines every year after that. check it out.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah... boooo on pookey for misrepresenting facts.
:(
by tyger1147 on Jul 29, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many floggings do I get for this failing to check facts before typing?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it should be over now. :)
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whew--I was fearing the BAB backlash for eternity
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 years?!?!?
at 8 mill a pop, though. Idk… how bad is that, really?
Actually, if it means the Kigns can’t resign Cisco… eff dat.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably does
If only because you’re committing potentialy 13-16 million dollars between Cisco and Noc. Is that worth it to you?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Means we'd have 30 milion tied up
for the next four-five years for a marginal-starting point guard, a starting 2-guard, a marginal-starting-3 and a sixth man.
No, not worth it. Alright, damnit, now I’m on the pookey bandwagon. The hell with this trade.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was only a matter of time
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cocky bastard.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not 8 mil a pop.
8 mil this year and declining every year after. (7.5, 6.85, 6.65), if you had clicked the convenient link I put in the above comment, I wouldn’t have to type that out.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my bad
I typed it, I wasn’t thinking it. I did click the link, thanks for it… much appreciated.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no problem,
sorry for the snark. probably unneccessary. ignoring facts bugs me though. but glad to hear it was a slip of the brain rather than ignorance.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I was looking at the last two years being in the 6-7 mill range, and I didn’t think that was bad value really. It’s just the first two are really painful, and that’s why I was thinking 8 million a pop – for the years replacing Miller, when the Kings are looking to trade cap space.
Thanks again for clearing up the issue.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah whoops thanks for the correction I was too lazy to look it up
And was dealing solely off memory.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noc
isn’t exactly trash. In the Bulls system he unfortunately is part of the small ball line-up that doesn’t work well for us, but something in the past we’ve used as a crutch. He’d be a better fit elsewhere and used properly.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Jul 29, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I know he's not
I didn’t mean trash perse. (Poor choice of words) Noc just isn’t what the Kings need, and the Kings would only be gaining a draft pick out of this deal (unlike the deal I’ve suggested ever since anotehr Kings fan on StR mentioned it, which was moving ARtest/Thomas to Cleveland).
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing
why the hell would the Kings want Noce? Maybe the Maloofs think he’s amusing?
by messwiththebull on Jul 29, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like it's far from a done deal
I mean, if the Kings want Noah and we want to give Cedric Simmons, that, um, seems like a pretty big stumbling block to me.
And talk about bad… if we have to trade a young player to unload Noc, what a disaster.
by Sports2 on Jul 29, 2008 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you mean Noah right?
cause Simmons, while still young, is useless.
I think we’ve all come to accept the Noc contract as a disaster. They really let the market set on that one.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"All" is definitely a strong statement around here.
Every once in awhile I still see a comment pop up: “I don’t get why everyone hates the Nocioni contract. At least he tries hard every game.”
by tyger1147 on Jul 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alot of fans are stupid tyger
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point.
I shouldn’t be using language like that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the chances the Kings like this trade, or one of the variations?
I think it works out excellently for the Bulls.
I suppose I could see Nocioni and Simmons plus a draft pick for Brad Miller as a way to clear the way for Hawes, but I would think they could get more for Miller and his expiring-2010 deal. The only way they possibly do this is if it’s a precursor to trading Artest for Odom-plus (or something similar). If they could trade Artest for a starting caliber PF+another 1st round pick, then Miller+Artest = Nocioni+(starting)PF+Ced Simmons+2 1st round draft picks. Depending on the team they’re getting the first from and the caliber of the big-man, that’s not a bad haul. Not great at all, but not bad.
by tyger1147 on Jul 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Artest
Cannot believe you are the first to bring up his name. I was just about to comment when I saw your post come up. You hit it on the button that this could be a precursor to an Artest trade. With no Artest, they need a SF. They have young big like Hawkes, Sheldon & the Jason Thompson (best workout ever. Plus, a bunch of marginal vets making some coin down load.
Noce is actually a good fit for Sacremento if Artest leaves. They have too many bigs.
by Jesse07 on Jul 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't it seem like we're going backwards if we do that?
I mean, after that trade we could try and get Artest back…
Then we could get Jalen Rose to come out of retirement…
Then Khalid El-Amin…
Then what…we’re tanking the season again for the possibility of Ricky Rubio?
Not crazy about it if that talk is true
by POSEYHATER on Jul 29, 2008 12:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry about that.
Worry about making the team better, for now and in the future. Miller fills a need as a legitimate starting/backup C and as an expiring contract. That’s all one needs to be concerned with.
by tyger1147 on Jul 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're going backwards
every day we keep Nocioni.
by YaoPau on Jul 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They better not freaking
include Noah…..and I hope that future 1st round pick is lottery protected….Brad Miller was god awful 2 years ago, had a decent year last year but now has the drug issues, etc.
At least he’s soon to be an expring contract…..I wouldn’t hate Miller if we parted with Hughes in some way, but not for Noc and a 1st round draft pick….
by majoyenrac on Jul 29, 2008 12:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s always had drug issues, he just got caught this time.
by kidronmusic on Jul 29, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I meant suspension….he’s old these days, not worth this trade. I don’t even like the Noc for Brad Miller part of it….although that gives up cap relief downt he road….
by majoyenrac on Jul 29, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do it Pax
Make this trade asap! It gives us a veteran center whos contract is shorter than Noce’s. We do not need to include Noah because in 2 years we will be looking for another center. IMO we should not even include a 1st round pick unless a true superstar is available and Miller is not that.
Rose / Obama 08
by illwill on Jul 29, 2008 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
1st round picks get sold nowadays
if it’s protected, I’m fine with letting one go.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and this next draft loos to be
AWFUL.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 29, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not if you're in the top 5 or so
I’d like a crack at BJ Mullens if he declares.
by messwiththebull on Jul 29, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot about protecting it
We should make the playoffs this year with the addition of Rose and Miller, so hopefully it would not be a lottery pick. I would hate for us to get a top 5 pick and only get a declining Brad Miller from the trade.
Rose / Obama 08
by illwill on Jul 29, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Sacremento
Is Sheldon Williams dating Candace Parker. I thought that was him next to her at the ESPYS?
by Jesse07 on Jul 29, 2008 12:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he is.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in retrospect
I should’ve flagged this as OT and spared you all…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boo
A Fan Shot titled “Candace is so hott!!!” would be lamest thing, ever.
by paxson43 on Jul 29, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't complain
I’d +1 it and rec it.
by NBA Observer on Jul 29, 2008 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Shelden is
They’ve been dating since he was at Duke and she was at UT apparently.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should have called her up last Sunday
Bain could have gaurded her.
by Jesse07 on Jul 29, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
aren't they engaged?
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know and don't care
It’s their business not mine. I just want Kayte.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shelden and Candace are engaged to Kayte?
No fair!!!!
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep--Well it works for me anyway
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She like...
five head.
Step 1 - Win lottery. Step 2 - Hire a coach. Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on Jul 29, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Noce goes,
Deng better learn to shoot the 3!
by Jesse07 on Jul 29, 2008 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I have confidence in Deng
I am sure Deng has been working on that flaw in his game. This trade also would be good because it moves Thabo to the back-up SF slot.
Rose / Obama 08
by illwill on Jul 29, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Backup SF minutes
This trade could allow the Bulls to keep Kirk, BG, Thabo, & Rose, and in my book that is a plus. Maybe Larry can even get some minutes at the 3, (not many). Also, Brad Miller has the expiring contract as a servicable big man.
by Jesse07 on Jul 29, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's alright
I’ve learned from the Monta/BG discussion that shooting isn’t important.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I complained about K-Mart's extension last year
But after seeing what BG and Monta are asking for I’m happy with it if only because K-Mart and the KIngs aren’t going through what the Dubs and Bulls have gone/are going through.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't
25 points on 16 shots is as good as gold in the NBA. Even if he doesn’t get better, he’s got fair contract value. If he takes a leadership role? Well, it’ll be the greatest extension Petrie’s ever pulled off.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should have been learning it
when they tried (stupidly) to change him from a great slasher into “post presence.”
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 29, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
it wasn’t that far fetched that he could do both, and I wouldn’t consider it much of a ‘lost time’ effort, he can likely get his range up fairly quickly.
Being injured much of the year didn’t help.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 29, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not call him a great slasher yet
great slashers attack the rim and get to the line. Lu is an opportunistic slasher.
by messwiththebull on Jul 29, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pumped
for the roster where Thabo is the best 3pt shooter on the team.
Let’s go Pax!
by NBA Observer on Jul 29, 2008 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paxson needs to do something
Even BG admitted that Pax is moving slow, he needs to do something. Sign both Deng and Gordon and make the Miller/Noce trade. Trade Hughes contract for one or two that expires this year. Jeezz
Rose / Obama 08
by illwill on Jul 29, 2008 1:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if only he knew thats what he should be doing!
;)
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 29, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know right
Why do we get our blood pressure high with Pax
Rose / Obama 08
by illwill on Jul 29, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gar Forman running things
Three cheers for Tim Floyd’s baggage?
by NBA Observer on Jul 29, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whaddya guys think
of these trade ides from STRs Ziller? Comment here or there, just would like non-homer-Kings opinions.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No way.
We are thick in the backcourt, not the frontcourt.
There’s no way we trade the two likely starters and a reserve for one starter. Seriously…
--Torch
by torch on Jul 29, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
You won’t have enough large bodies.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that's another thing about it torch
Cleveland is a better partner for the Kings in players they need to trade, as opposed to Brad Miller whom the Kings don’t have a pressing need to trade right now.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
@ miller for a sign and traded deng. what the hell?
by Jaina on Jul 29, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not even possible to do
Whether the kings and Bulls wanted to do it. Because Deng would be BYC once he was signed there is no way the KIngs or Bulls could do that trade.
So in other words, don’t worry about losing Deng in that scenario. Worry about losing him in 2009.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i do worry about that
so i hope we get him signed.
but the idea of miller for deng straight up, all money aside, is completely laughable.
by Jaina on Jul 29, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I don’t really want Deng either truthfully no matter how much some love him. Would rather have John Salmons and Francisco Garcia than Luol Deng personally.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that folks, give you an idea of how Lu may be perceived around the league
by messwiththebull on Jul 29, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
inaccurately!
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 29, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is Deng an all-star?
Is he a top 5 SF in the league? Does he do things that Salmons or Garcia can’t? Does he fit the Kings style of play? Is he worth vis a vis the actual money to get him, or even worth overpayment of, to retain his services.
I’m not being a dick because I was high on Deng like everyone else last year. I just don’t think he really fits what the Kings need at the SF position.
There are only a handful of players whom you change your whole roster around to acquire, and Deng is definitely not one of those players.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with pookeyguru
and I want Deng resigned. But it’s always interesting to hear what other fans around the league think about “our” players.
by messwiththebull on Jul 29, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind MWTB
I’m not saying anybody on the Kings roster fits that bill, because I am not saying that at all. But if you read the last line, unless you’re acquiring 3 or 4 guys in this league I would say no to alot of trades that didn’t help the Kings acquire cap room or draft picks. That’s the way I always will feel regardless of how good a player, whom in this case Deng at his best is very very good.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poorly worded to begin with
I figured you understood by your comment. I was trying to help everyone else understand where I was coming from in case they didn’t quite understand.
Sorry about the confusion, and dumb statement to kick the reply off.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm ignorant on Kings basketball
But I thought Salmons and Garcia were both 2/3 sort of players, while Noc is more of a 3/4 sort of player.
If Artest gets traded, I could see why Nocioni would make a bit of sense as a bigger forward to combine with those guys.
So I could see him making a bit of sense for you guys, but I agree, not enough to give up Miller.
If you really want him, I’m sure Noc could be had for Kenny Thomas straight up if we sign Deng and Gordon.
by Sports2 on Jul 29, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks
Rather keep Kenny, and considering most of my trade proposals have included K9, that might tell you what I think of Noc.
Think of it this way. If you’re opposed to give Gooden and Noah up for Miller, do I think I’m very keen on the idea of swapping Noc for K9 straight up?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you think^
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm...
subliminal hint that all you car is what you think, maybe?
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope my opinion isn't the only one
Even though I think Matt “your friendly Bulls Blogger” is a smart intelligent excellent blogger, and all that, I don’t think he represents all of Bulls fans either. That’s impossible. He represents himself and his thoughts, and because of this format, others are allowed to share those as well.
My point is that if something is un-desirable to your side, it might be worth remembering what might be un-desirable to the other side too. There’s always 2 sides to every deal.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, there could be three sides, no?
Wouldn’t it be hilarious if the cavs and bulls are involved in another massive multi-team deal two years in a row?
I’d find it awesome, and a criticism of the state of both’s front offices.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
I was just trying to say how I think Noc might contribute for the Kings, and how little I’d take back to be rid of him.
I agree entirely, by the way, that there’s very little reason for the Kings to trade Miller to us. That being said, I’d see some logic to a Noc for K9 swap, because you’re effectively replacing a guy who can’t play at all any more with a guy who can at least effectively play a role that sort of needs to be filled.
I guess I don’t see the parallel between the Gooden+Noah for Miller and Noc for K9. In the former case we’re giving up 2 productive younger players for an older player with a worse contract. In the latter case we’re giving up a better player on a worse contract for a worse player on a better contract.
I can see why you wouldn’t want to take on Noc’s longer term deal, but honestly, if I’m the Kings and I move Artest, I see Noc as having a role. Getting your starting 3 for Kenny Thomas seems reasonable to me.
by Sports2 on Jul 29, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with that, among other things
Is that the Kings are looking to trade Artest and Thomas together. They’re not looking to separate the two, and what they’re looking for is cap space for the both of them together. That’s a big part of what Petrie’s trying to do is take Thomas off the cap after this season.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That turns out to not be the case
if the Artest to Houston deal is true.
Thing is, how much cap space do the Kings need. They’ll have plenty even with Nocioni. At some point you also have to make yourself attractive to FAs by not sucking.
While we’ve grown tired of the super gritty energy player act, you guys would actually benefit from him during what looks like a rebuilding period. He’ll be a fan favorite and he won’t, there, be keeping better players off the court like he does here.
by Sports2 on Jul 29, 2008 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy to say that now LOL
Yeah Noc would be keeping other players off the court. John Salmons is a better player than Noc. So is Francisco Garcia. Jason Thompson has got a chance to be there. Mikki Moore does many of the same things Noc already does. In otherwords what Noc does the KIngs either have or have better talent at the positions he plays. My opinion, and I know Noc has value, is that he doesn’t possess the type of value the Kings need at the moment.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 30, 2008 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a little puzzled
by the high regard for Garcia and Salmons. I’ve looked at their numbers. These are slightly above-average players on a below average team. They may be wonderful human beings, but a) they’ve never won and b) they’ve never produced to the level Noc has in the past. Noc has won a gold medal, and delivered in the playoffs. Neither Salmons or Garcia have accomplished anything like that – to the best of my knowledge, on any level. And not only do Noce’s career numbers far exceed theirs – last year, his worst year, exceeded or match the best years of Salmons or Garcia (last year as well).
You’re a cogent, well-reasoned poster, and you can write a damn good sentence. But I think you’re over-valuing your boys – something we all do (myself included). I also think we’re talking apples and oranges a bit here. Noc is a 3-4. Both Salmons and Garcia or 2-3s. When Noc is playing the four, he spreads the game out to the three point line. There are few pfs who can guard him out to the line, or stay with him on penetration.
This site has become a bit bitter w/regard to Noc, especially in lieu of his contract. Remember that his hustling “act” (and it isn’t an act, this guy really gives his body to the game) wasn’t tired when they were winning. It was thrilling.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 30, 2008 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Salmons gets minutes, he produces
when he doesn’t, he sulks. I’ve liked Salmons game for a while and think Sacramento is grateful they ended up with him instead of Bonzi.
by messwiththebull on Jul 30, 2008 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait. Are you bullshooter?
Salmons best year, when he finally began to approach averageness, he was 28 and avg. 31.1 mpg. If you have to play a guy more than that just to be worse than average, he’s not very good at all.
by tyger1147 on Jul 30, 2008 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perfectly said.
To which I add: and at 31.1 mpg, Nocioni outscores, outshoots, and outrebounds Salmons.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 30, 2008 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Salmons over Nocioni in a heartbeat
by messwiththebull on Jul 30, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'd take just about any player over the Bulls.
by tyger1147 on Jul 30, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may seem that way, but no
Rose is a keeper.
I just think we haven’t seen the best from Salmons yet, whether it be because he was buried on the bench in Philly (but still showed enough to get those offers from Toronto and Sacramento) or because he had to take a back seat to Artest. I don’t think Salmons is near the all-star level, but he’s a nice player and I think he can be that guy to fill in at SF now with Ron Ron gone. In other words, I see no reason why Sac would pursue Noce.
by messwiththebull on Jul 30, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noce is 29 years old
He’s already shown he can produce as a starter, 6th man, whatever. Salmons has yet to have a consistent season other than last year’s early fantasy explosion (he was on my team as well). He’s 28 years old, so buying into the more minutes/more production argument with him might not work out so well. They have similar values, but I’d rather have Noce than Salmons because I already know what I’m going to get out of him. Salmons isn’t going to turn into a star anyways, why go ahead and give him more minutes?
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 30, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's a productive player when the minutes are there
He started half the season last year and here’s his split:
Starting SG (24 games)- 38.8 MPG/ 17.2 PPG/ 52.4% FG/ 3.6 APG/ 5.3 RPG
Starting SF (17 games) – 37.0 MPG/ 18.0 PPG/ 46.3% FG/ 3.4 APG/ 5.4 RPG
The point is why even show interest in Noce if you’re Sacramento? You have SF taken care of, worry about your other needs unless you can dump salary, I guess.
by messwiththebull on Jul 30, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't argue with that!
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 30, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to break last year down to get a better idea
I had this guy on my fantasy team. He was a hell of a pickup early on but once Artest returned, his role dramatically changed.
Oct (1 game) – 45MPG/ 52.6% FG/ 22 PPG/9 APG/ 2 RPG
Nov (14 games) – 32.4 MPG/ 45.5% FG/ 14.1PPG/ 2.4 APG/ 4.6 RPG
Dec (14 games) – 37.8 MPG/ 51.1% FG/ 17.9 PPG/ 3.4 APG/ 4.9 RPG
Jan (15 games) – 30.9 MPG/ 58.5% FG/ 13.7 PPG/ 3.0 APG/ 3.9 RPG
After January, his minutes and production plummetted, about 25/26 MPG and about 7-8PPG. He somewhat rebounded in April, but Artest made him go home and get his shinebox.
Salmons numbers as a starter are even better:
Starting SG (24 games)- 38.8 MPG/ 17.2 PPG/ 52.4% FG/ 3.6 APG/ 5.3 RPG
Starting SF (17 games) – 37.0 MPG/ 18.0 PPG/ 46.3% FG/ 3.4 APG/ 5.4 RPG
He was a nice player.
by messwiththebull on Jul 30, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone above metioned this could happen if Artest gets traded...
Looks like it could be happening.
Step 1 - Win lottery. Step 2 - Hire a coach. Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on Jul 29, 2008 7:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Regarding Noah. I don't get it...
If Noah’s involved that would be a terrible trade for the Bulls. It seems people are still conflicted that the Bulls are a playoff team. Yeah, they might make the playoffs but they still don’t have enough to make it far with or without Miller. Wouldn’t it make sense to have a big that’s young and that can run? Also, our potential star is only 19. In 4-5 years Miller’s probably gonna be out of the league. Having Rose, Deng, Noah, Thomas even if its all based on potential, has got to be worth something for the people jumping the gun wanting to trade away. If Pax wants to trade somebody, trade a guard.
by Wake on Jul 29, 2008 7:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If the Kings are still in a dealing mode after trading Artest
This trade now makes a lot more sense. Garcia and Salmons are more 2 guards than small forwards, Nocioni’s uber-aggressive style of play would go well in Sactown.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 29, 2008 10:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Nocioni's uber agressive style of play...."
yeah they probably haven’t heard about the new rules on flopping out in the valley yet.
noc is gonna be racking up the fines like a slot machine, cha ching, too bad stern doesn’t make it a personal fould instead of a fine.
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by Orlando Woolridge on Jul 29, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry but I disagree about Salmons being a 2 guard
He fits in very well at the 3 spot, and I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that. I’m fairly sure that’s where Petrie signed him to play at least some of his time at.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 30, 2008 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree,
kings are getting younger and looking to retool for a run in a couple of years.
they want young guys and picks.
the bulls got plenty of those.
with a healthy and one year older Deng now in the fold,
A top pick in Rose
A better year from Hinrich (I think that he doesn’t like to be put as captain and will play better with rose on the team)
Thomas and Noah both one year older
and miller, we get an immediate upgrade at center scoring wise. I think we can seriously contend in the post season with him.
plus his contract will be done in 2 years, noc’s contract will be gone, Huges’ as well and gooden’s too, we could try to get d wade to pair up with Deng and Rose and 2 more yrs of seasoned ball from Tyrus and Noah.
Letting Gordon come off the bench with just a QO means that the bulls stay financial viable. I think we could pick up some of his scoring with Miller and Rose’s penetration and kick outs to Hinrich and Deng.
and even though Gordon is not a bad defender, we become a better defensive team with Hinrich at the 2. (especially since neither one can drive the lane anyhow )
I love Nocioni and appreciate his 3 point skills. but he’s just too short to defend well against big 4’s and too slow against quick 3’s, at least with the bulls current roster anyway.
so with both undersized players gone, the bulls defense improves on the outside, but more importly, on the inside as well since Noah can patrol the 4 spot with Tyrus
Then Maybe we can make a trade of Hinrich - Gooden - Huges (or any combination) for a better 2.
by gman2849 on Jul 30, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one more thing about gordon
that bugs me is that he was manhandled by the bigger detroit guards in the playoffs. That weakness in our offense needs to be resolved before the bulls can move past the second round
by gman2849 on Jul 30, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry
they won’t be around much longer anyway. And if they are this year, they’ll be too busy getting beat and fouling Derrick Rose. :-p
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 30, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check the regular season numbers
against Detroit. The only way Detroit effectively stifles BG is to free throw beg to get him out of the game. If BG gets minutes he kills the Pistons.
BG just needs a little bit of acting to bait Billups into offensive fouls. And, as YFBB mentions, they’re older, fatter, slower, blah.
by NBA Observer on Jul 30, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not the regular season that worries me
I think you’d agree that in the playoffs the refs tend to swallow their whistles. And it’s not just the Piston’s who can do this to lil’ ben come playoff time. (heh still fits even without the corpse in town)
by gman2849 on Jul 30, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first half of this post reads like the weirdest poetry I've ever seen.
by potato0328 on Jul 30, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Putting Gooden in the trade makes sense for both teams
This works on the espn trade machine. Trade becomes Gooden & Simmons, & Gray for Brad Miller…
KINGS get: 3 deals expiring in 2009 to go along with Bobby Jackson’s who was just acquired for Artest. Sheldon WIlliams and Douby expire then too if they decide not to keep them (and it doesn’t seem that either are really in their plans), so that makes about $22 million coming off the cap for them in 2009. They can get Hawes more minutes at the 5 splitting time with Mikki Moore, and they can have Jason Thompson splitting time at the 4 with Gooden. The KIngs also have Moore, Abdur-Rahom, and Thomas coming off the books in 2010 for more cap relief or to be used in trades if they dcide to make their splash in 2009.
Bulls get: Brad Miller to start at center alongside Tyrus Thomas with Noah coming off the bench as the energy big for either guy. Miller is big enough to give the Bulls a legit 5 on defense, and also gives them a totally different look on offense as a skilled big who can pass and shoot and be effective on pick & pops. He’d compliment Noah and Tyrus well and wouldn’t take too many minutes away from them with enough to go around for each to play roughly 32 mpg (and Miller being old and probably not wanting any more than that). Miller also gives the Bulls a 2nd big contract coming off the books in 2010 to go alog with Hughes. Miller is a better fiit than good on the court and just as good contract-wise since it just pushes the expiring contracts back a year.
by rb22 on Jul 30, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contracts
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/sacramento.htm
It makes sense, as long as Joakim stays. Maybe put Thabo in to sweeten the deal instead?
"I tell you, Steve Blass, you pitch me inside, they never, never find that ball."
-Roberto Clemente
by cubbybear on Jul 30, 2008 4:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Use Shamsports for contracts
They don’t have a linky bar tool to get to other teams easily, but they have more accurate data.
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp
by NBA Observer on Jul 31, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paxson denies rumors of talks about Brad Miller
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/print/?id=224754
Paxson said the Bulls have not had any discussions about acquiring Sacramento center Brad Miller.
by NBA Observer on Jul 31, 2008 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about....
Nocioni for Bobby Simmons, straight up.
Seems much more realistic than anything mentioned here so far.
by ridindirty on Jul 31, 2008 4:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When trading Noc
the objective isn’t to get players back with LARGER contracts. The objective is to get back players with smaller, shorter contracts.
Simmons is only two years remaining, but it’s $10,602,667, and $11,242,667 paydays. That’s untenable for the Bulls.
by NBA Observer on Jul 31, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I have only been reading this blog for the past month. However it appears to me agenda #1 around here is get rid of noc, and #2 is clear cap space for 2010. This would accomplish both those things.
I am personally not a fan of Noc’s contract (2 mill a yr too high imo), but I dont mind his game. I think he fits better with another team at this point. I would rather not see up give him away.
by ridindirty on Jul 31, 2008 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Those are two big agendas around here.
But Reinsdorf’s, the owner’s, immediate goal is to not pay the luxury tax.
(and use the reply link w/ the plus sign)
by tyger1147 on Jul 31, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my bad about the reply link (i know about it, just wasn't thinking)
NJ actually likes Nocioni, that is a big plus. Reinsdorf is a joke.
by ridindirty on Jul 31, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love offseason trade rumors!
They kill like 10 minutes of my day every day. And isn’t that what it’s about. Thanks!
by ronmexibull on Jul 31, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A good swap for the Bulls and Kings (I think)
would be Miller and Garcia for Noce and Gooden. The Kings get more immediate cap relief in Gooden so they can go for the rebuilding after the Brad Miller era a year sooner, they get a SF/PF in Noce to replace Artest and they get a banger in the post like Gooden to complement Spencer Hawes’s mid-range high post game. The deal also shaves about 1.8 million off the cap for the Bulls this year, allowing them to offer much more money to Gordon over the life time of his contract. Also, Garcia expires (team option) after this year, so we could let him go and get a little bit of relief that way and then have Hughes and Miller’s deals expiring in 2010. There are a couple of other guys on the Kings roster that make similar money to Garcia that you could substitute for him to make this more agreeable to them (their fans seem to like Garcia from what I’ve seen here from cross posters).
by fundamentallysound on Aug 1, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They're not getting Noah in this deal.
Or, at least, if they do I’ll eat my hat and curse and other stuff.
Either way, they haven’t even spoken. It’s all still conjecture. :P
by Prevenge on Aug 1, 2008 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's take up an offering.
Maybe we can raise a few million to give to the Kings, to entice them to make the deal. The bulls are crowded at the SF. Deng takes up 35-40 minutes a game. Nocioni isn’t a 2 or 4. Nocioni just doesn’t fit being the 7th guy on the roster, especially when the bulls are so weak at the center position.
Nocioni or Hughes need to move. Or sign and trade BG for a beast center.
by chicago-homesick-blues on Aug 4, 2008 4:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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