three years younger, coming off a career year, and has posted a PER than Ben Gordon ever has. He’s also a much better ballhandler and can masquerade as PG if necessary better than BG can. He’s better than BG and if anything, this tells me BG is a $10m/year player at best.

Black Santa, and it’s an awesome nickname with Davis’s beard and former weight issues.

maybe BG can be more explosive given the space, the system, and the right “supporting” cast (like perhaps monta in this case)...but either way you spin it, BG clearly had expectations this year that werent met and was clearly outplayed by monta in nearly every meaningful way…pax is a pretty shrewd dude when it comes to handling salary…i dont think he’s gonna pay for potential also considering how cap conscious the bulls are

the market value has been set for undersized, unproven combo guards (at least not at the level as gilbert—the consummate superstar combo guard)

On offense, I think they’re just different style players—BG is a pure shooter who is athletic enough to do some other stuff (not horrible handles, not a horrible rebounder, etc.), whereas Monta is a guy who attacks the rim (no outside shot, higher percentage FG because of all the layups, better handle). The fact that their assist numbers are so close per 36 min makes Monta seem a bit selfish by comparison; if he’s getting in the lane so much more often in a wide-open offense, you’d think he’d have a bigger advantage there. On offense, it’s mostly a wash.

The most telling stats for me are the defensive stats and the offensive rebounding. Monta has distinct advantages here. You could explain some of Monta’s offensive rebounding by noting that he’s so much closer to the basket on most of his shots, but I also think that it’s effort (BG’s long shots will produce more long rebounds which he could chase down more often than he does; especially considering that he only makes 43% of them, he has more opportunity to rebound his own shots anyway). Monta actually blocks quite a few shots for an undersized 2 guard as well, which shows a commitment to help defense (on a team that is not known for its defense, unlike the Bulls).

In the end, I think it’s closer than some people think, but given their relative ages and Monta’s contributions in rebounding and defense (which generates extra possessions), I think Monta is the more valuable player.

This is all in the abstract, though. Maybe the Bulls are better served at this point to have a pure shooter than a slasher anyway. Furthermore, Ben is the only one of these two we even have a chance to sign.

Had Jordan drafted Brook Lopez, I could see a possible trade. But he drafted Augustin, which leaves just Okafor, Nazr, and Sean May inside. I could see them being interested in Drew Gooden, but with the Larry Brown hire, downgrading inside seems unlikely.

The most recent season should be weighed the heaviest. You can’t just pick someones best year (at least so far) and use that as the basis point. Not to mention Ben is 2-3 years older and theoretically has less growth left in his game.

BG is in a tight spot. If he wants to elevate himself to max value he has to play in a system that will push pace and scoring. He needs Nellie or D’Antoni to make that happen.

Or Vinny Del Negro !

I definitely think this is part of it. After losing Baron, they pretty much had to pay Monta. Monta had serious leverage there.

sure, which is no more than $10m/year, but BG already turned that down last year. I don’t know if the Bulls are presenting a lower offer than last year but I can in no way see how BG can justfiably ask and feel entitled to anything more than what Ellis received.

But the numbers won’t look good for agents.
Here’s a quick breakdown:

yr 1 – 7.65 mil
yr 2 – 8.45 mil
yr 3 – 9.34 mil
yr 4 – 10.32 mil
yr 5 – 11.4 mil
yr 6 – 12.6 mil

Total = 59.77 mil

Those numbers include a 10.5% raise every year.

I certainly don’t see it on our roster. Unless the Bulls have some magical two guard stashed away, I’m not quite sure who you’re referring to (I hope not Thabo).

especially when you think about the odds of Nellie still being in GSW for another two to three years, much less the other years after that that will likely be when Ellis is getting paid most of his money. He got paid because he’s good and he’s young and he’s still improving.

then Ellis is to the Warriors.

If you could put our future in one player’s hands – that guy is Rose. For Golden State, they are clearly putting at least their immediate future in Monta’s hands.

Few people would say that Gordon will get Monta money. In a different scenario Ben Gordon could have started his career in Golden State, put up the same numbers, and got the same money. But he didn’t…..

Monta’s getting this money not because his game is all that much better than BG’s. Monta is an awful defender, as is BG. Monta can score at will, BG can score at will. True, Monta’s game is perfect for a GS offense. But this comparison is worth making, and isn’t that big of a stretch.

But Gordon is currently the best scorer on our team. He’s very valuable to us. I don’t think his value is worth $11 million; though I wouldn’t cry if we gave him that. He definitely is ‘comparable’ to Monta; he deserves ‘comparable’ dollars. An offer of $8, 9 millions would be fine with me. I’m not sure that he would take that offer – maybe others here would know better.

to make him look like a delusional ego maniac. Also, it would help them negotiate because columnists would come out of the woodwork to decry BG’s ego and irrational self-love. I don’t think he’s demanding the max, but I think he wants atleast $10 mil per year.

however, the point remains that BG would be getting $10+ million a year and would basically be getting Monta’s deal with $4 million discounted because of the 2 and a half year age difference. Ben will be turning 31 at the end of his deal, whereas Monta will be just 29.

I like evaulating based on numbers as well, but sometimes you have to use your eyes.

If I had to pick one player between Ellis and Gordon with whom to start a franchise with, 10/10 times it would be Ellis, an easy, sleep like a baby at night decision. In any system, under any coach, in any league. Monta has shown superstar potential. Gordon has shown all-star potential. Ball handling is not a question once you watch them play again. Hell, you can just look on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1jsvGEWgL0&feature=related

Gordon deserves comparable (but less) money because he excels in an area that Ellis doesn’t currently provide and prolific -albeit streaky – shooters at his age don’t come cheap, but Ellis should certainly cap Ben’s deal potential.

then the answer is “no” as well. If I had to start a franchise with either Monta or Luol, 10/10 times I’d choose Monta and I’d be so comfortable with that decision I’d have already made dinner plans.