Another "Hinrich-to-Denver" Rumor
I don't believe this sinceI proposed the same thing a week or so ago and, more importantly, because I've read quotes since that essentially stated that Denver was seeking tax relief. The most disturbing thing for me is that Paxson would be willing to trade GREAT CAP RELIEF just to make Rose's 1st three months "easier." Bah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(t/f/j: RealGM)
about 1 year ago
tyger1147
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Would this allow the Bulls
to sign both Deng and Gordon?
If yes, I’d be all for it. At this point, Hinrich is strictly excess baggage.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jul 23, 2008 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not if you're someone who doesn't want to overpay for them at all.
But if they trade Hinrich, it means there is only one “bad”+ contract on the team. They would then only need the miracle of trading Nocioni for cap relief to still be able to sign a max-contract player in 2010.
+quotes because Hinrich’s is only bad because his future for the Bulls is as a backup PG or bad SG.
by tyger1147 on Jul 23, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, just because I'd prefer Iggy doesn't mean I'd mind overpaying for D&G.
I say do it and thank Denver for the favor.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jul 23, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
stupid
how would this be any different than letting Gordon and/or Deng walk for nothing?
by JSlakov on Jul 23, 2008 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We get a future 1st rounder
from a team that, in the West, could easily end up in the lottery. Not saying I think it’s a smart deal, I have mixed feelings. But it’s a LOT different from letting a player walk.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Jul 23, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I read it right (no guarantees there)
we’d be trading Hinrich for the cap space we need to sign both Gordon and Deng. The alternative is we keep Hinrich but don’t have the money to sign one of either Gordon or Deng.
Given those as my two options, I’d take Gordon and Deng over Hinrich and either one of the other two.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jul 23, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps
but we’ve already paid Hinrich the most we’re ever going to pay him in a year. His contract is only going to get better, as well as most likely shorter than Deng and Gordon’s, making it easier to trade. Add in that I think Hinrich and Gordon are closer in talent than some people on here do, and I think I’d rather keep Hinrich. It could wind up being Hinrich costing 8,000 in 2011 (according to Hoops Hype) and Gordon costing 14,000 in 2011 if he gets 5/60 like he seems to want and its backloaded as usual.
by JSlakov on Jul 23, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't "rather" have Hinrich...
...but I’m less against to having him substitute for Gordon than Nocioni for Deng.
by tyger1147 on Jul 23, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
read the blog title.
derrick rose derrick rose derrick rose
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 23, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't
Hinrich our starting shooting guard when we made it to the playoffs the three years before last? Hinrich is just as much a piece that we drafted and developed as Deng and Gordon. What if we draft Demar Derozan next year? Then won’t you be wanting to trade Gordon for nothing?
by JSlakov on Jul 23, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon's already good
Derozan is 3-4 years away from being good.
You have to worry that you could be drafting Gerald Greens and not just getting Lebrons with these one and done kids.
by NBA Observer on Jul 24, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
I think Hinrich is already good and Rose is 2-3 years from being good. I’m saying that Matt wanted this deal signed last year for Hinrich (if I’m correct) and now that we have Rose wouldn’t mind trading him just to get him off our cap. Who’s to say what will happen next year and if we get a chance to draft someone like Derozan, won’t he feel the same way about Gordon?
by JSlakov on Jul 24, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well you can get somebody pretty good for Gordon
like you likely can for Hinrich. Or even if not something good, the player’s good enough to where a team wouldn’t mind taking on the deal for the cap flexibility platter.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also it's interesting that you have a fear
of having too many good players.
I don’t know who Dewon Brazelton is (a bit too old to be drafted, no?) but perhaps I’m confused. I’ll guess though that he’s a top prospect, meaning if they can get him the Bulls are terrible again, which is a bigger problem than being ‘locked in’ to any salary structure.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My fear
is that the Bulls max out at OK and even though you’re sure its easy to get out from that kind of situation, I’ve seen perpetual mediocrity from plenty of teams and it usually takes burning the team to the ground to escape. Think Derrick Rose will enjoy that process? I’m not saying its a definite thing but I personally don’t think a core of Rose, Deng, Gordon and Thomas will win the championship. And if you want to commit to Deng and Gordon long term from what we’ve seen from them, you probably will want to commit to Thomas in 2010, so we can’t bank on any stars there to get the team over the hump.
I guess at this point our difference is just our views of Deng and Gordon. I think you can pay these guys as a second and third option, but you have to get that first option beforehand because he’s gonna want the max and while Rose could be that, I’d rather see what we have before we assume he will be enough to lead that specific team to the promised land.
by JSlakov on Jul 24, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they'd be burning it to the ground now
so I’d be ok with some mediocrity with the prospect of more. If it turns out that it never gets more than that, then start over. It’s not like it’s easy to get another 5 years of lottery picks too.
Rose is the first option and will be the bestest. If he’s not, they slash/burn, and you can finally try on that Miami Heat jersey.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha
the ultimate tactic, anyone who disagrees isn’t a true fan. Well after watching 82 games of Bryce Drew and Dalibor Bagaric on Gamecast, I don’t think anything will scare me away.
They’d be burning it to the ground but they’d still have 4 recent lottery picks on the team, plus cap space and being bad would be acceptable because they have a 19 year old point guard.
Again, this isn’t the dream scenario. I’d rather sign Deng and Gordon to reasonable deals. My point remains there’s no point in panicking if they refuse to take what they’re worth. And my point in this thread is how quickly opinions can change of a player where you want to sign him long term one day and then trade him for nothing the next.
by JSlakov on Jul 24, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
#1 overall picks in a 2-player draft aren't common enough
to make some generalization off of that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*and I phrased it as 2-player draft meaning
the Tyrus Thomas draft was a zero-player draft.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
certainly
there will be star players available in some form in Rose’s “growing years” whether by the draft, by trade or by by free agency. Its up to the Bulls to get them one way or the other. I happen to believe they’ll be easier to get if we don’t have Deng and Gordon signed to 10+ million dollar contracts.
by JSlakov on Jul 24, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. $10 million is unreasonble?
Because you have said you would have them on the team for reasonable contracts, right? You do have a different opinion of their worth than a lot of people, it seems.
And I would almost guarantee that Deng at $10 million would be imminently tradeabale for any future superstar talent. He’d be worth FAR MORE than Hinrich or Nocioni at their prices if one of those players came available in any scenario other than a straight FA signing.
by tyger1147 on Jul 24, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you miss
the + I snuck in there? I was putting the two players together so I put 10+ to write it quicker. I would certainly be happy to have Deng for 10 million.
by JSlakov on Jul 24, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The plus is meaningless.
10+1? 10+4?
10 & 12
10/13?
by tyger1147 on Jul 24, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't you think
the Cavs thought the same thing about Larry Hughes?
by JSlakov on Jul 24, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference, of course....
...is that Larry Hughes got his contract off of one good year, whereas Gordon and Deng would be coming off of one bad season. And they’re 2 and 4 years younger as well.
by tyger1147 on Jul 24, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait wait...
didn’t Denver trade Camby for nothing to get under the luxury tax threshold? Why would they use their exception right away to get Hinrich? This is one of the most out-of-the-brain-of-some-13-year-old rumors I’ve seen on this board.
by YaoPau on Jul 23, 2008 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 23, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they traded Camby
because they thought they could more easily later fill their big hole at PG, hence the offer to the Bulls.
They think that they will be better with Hinrich, and Nene, Kenyon, etc filling in for the loss of Camby.
Everybody assumed it was for cap relief, but maybe it’s not the case.
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on Jul 24, 2008 4:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a LOT of cap relief though.
Camby’s salary x2 (tax), plus now they could get the James Dolan tax payout if they stay under.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think Denver
wants to pay ~$20 million this year for Kirk Hinrich?
I could see them trading Kenyon Martin and a 1st for Hinrich and Simmons so they stay under the tax, but they’re not going to just add on Kirk’s salary and push themselves past the threshold.
by YaoPau on Jul 24, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Problem..
I think if Denver is dumb enough to make the trade do it! But, don’t we need a back-up PG? Duhon just signed with NY right?
Rose / Obama 08
by illwill on Jul 23, 2008 1:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
or Thabo
and sign one of the many backup PGs (though there are fewer available now than to begin the summer).
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 23, 2008 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds far fetched
But if its true, that would be pretty sweet. Any fears of Rose having too much pressure to step right in is stupid. No one needs hinrich. Isn’t dan dickau available anyways. He is like a poor man’s hinrich since he is white and plays just a bit more horribly than hinrich. But I am sure the bulls can sign him for mid level at the most for two years and then you have someone to take off the pressure from rose by bringing the ball up 20 minutes a game. This would probably mean bringing back gordon, or so i would hope. If thats the case then its choosing gordon over hinrich which is a pretty easy decision to make.
by Sambossanova on Jul 23, 2008 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Forgot about Dan Dickau
I think Rose will be a superstar if he has scorers surrounding him. That means re-signing Deng and Gordon. If the trade gives us cap space to re-sign Deng and Gordon, I say lets do it before the Nuggets realize they are getting screwed. I doubt it will happen though.
Rose / Obama 08
by illwill on Jul 23, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would HATE this trade
Why make Denver better?
Hinrich-A.I.-Melo is a very solid core…..
Let them suffer for the crap deal they did with Camby.
A future first round pick that at worst after this trade would be upper teens is crap. Hinrich’s not crap, he’s just redundant….Hinrich’s actually pretty good.
by majoyenrac on Jul 23, 2008 3:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
AI isn't a part of their core, he's a giant expiring who just happens to give you 20 ppg on really inefficient shooting.
He’s too old to be part of any team’s core.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 23, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, who cares if we make Denver better?
I’d care if we were making the Cavs or Pistons better, or maybe even the Heat, but who cares about a middling team in the West. If it comes back to bite us in some uber-hypothetical Finals match-up, I guess that’s what we get.
But yeah, Hinrich’s worth more than this.
by arjoseph on Jul 24, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At some point
I would like to know what Vinny thinks. He says he’s into versatility, defense, and an up tempo game. I would like to know what assessments he brought with him from Phoenix and the amount of influence he’s had in this process this summer.
by hlac on Jul 23, 2008 4:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Vinny Plan
I wonder if there is a team that runs a lot, fastbreak based b-ball and also manages to play good D. Don’t the coaches say, we’ll run but will play D!.. What a crap!.. When you ask the NBA players to run, they see it as license to slack off on the D side.
by Fastbreak on Jul 24, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If
we can swap first round picks next season I say we go for it. Without Camby Denver is a lottery team. He was about their only defender. It’s not like the west is lacking teams that can put up big numbers. I would most definately trade hinrich for cap space (to resign deng and gordon) and a lottery pick, even if it is at the tail end of the lottery.
by bosh on Jul 23, 2008 4:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The draft pick
That we get from Denver could be used in a package that could bring us a legitimate low-post scroring threat.
Rose / Obama 08
by illwill on Jul 23, 2008 5:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They just got Birdman
Denver’s not wasting any time, they just signed your favorite pot smoking dunkmaster, Chris Andersen.
by POSEYHATER on Jul 24, 2008 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great upside/depth siging for cheap.
Good signing, but not a sign they are going to spend more to get immediately better. More of a stop-gap that might turn into something more.
by arjoseph on Jul 24, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also he's a vet minimum
which means the league foots some of the bill and it isn’t taxed (collectively-bargained, indeed). I wouldn’t be surprised if all their additions are of that variety, and not the $20m on Hinrich.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not...
send Hinrich and Hughes to Denver for Iverson (huge expiring) and Steven Hunter (backup C) and maybe a pick if we can. Iverson can still play some and even if he wasn’t very good he has a massive expiring deal that we could use the cap space for signing an UFA in the summer of 09 (Boozer perhaps?). Also it would help clear some of the logjam in the backcourt. The only real downside is that Iverson dominates the ball a lot (not good for Rose’s development), but he would give us a great scorer (albeit a slightly inefficient one). Oh and our backcourt outside of Thabo would be TEENY. But I don’t see us winning a championship this year (or coming even close really) so why not clear some cap space and make a run at a legit star in the summer before everyone goes for their cap space bonanza? Anyway, I through this out on the RealGM board and figured I’d do the same here.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 25, 2008 9:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
actually, an even better trade
is to not even include Hunter and just deal Hinrich and Hughes for Iverson’s massive expiring. It would shave nearly 2 million off of payroll for this year, which would allow us to offer more money to Deng and BG and remain under the luxury tax.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 25, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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