Uh-Oh, the Bulls are in BIG trouble!
The Bulls have been my favorite team since the late 80's, and always will be my favorite team. But, I must say that my beloved team is in trouble in the future. I've been watching the Las Vegas summer league, and am thoroughly convinced that the NBA is headed in the same direction as MLB in terms of each team having their own minor league team through NBDL affiliates. The level of talent is quite impressive, I would say to the point that some teams summer league squads would give the Bulls regulars trouble in a regular season game. The place the bulls fall short is at the 4 and 5. Players like Ryan Hollins, Amir Johnson, Anthony Randolph, Andrae Blatche,J. Mcgee(the wizards draft pick), Kevin Love, the Lopez bros. and even the Princeton big Wallace have played well. When you compare these guys with the likes of Aaron Grey, Jo. Noah, and even Tyrus to a lesser extent, you have to question the prowess of the Bulls scouting department. Let's be fair, the Bulls can't land the bigs that went high this year of course, but, what about all these guys that were late 2nd rounders. Oh yeah, I forgot, we would rather pick up another bum like this Omar Asik kid that no one has heard of, and can't help us until much later as it sounds.
Let's not forget to mention the most idiotic move that Paxson has made thus far in trading LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas. I don't care how anyone tries to justify that move, it was as stupid as signing Wallace in the twilights of his career. Let's trade scouting personnel with the Blazers. They know how to draft, and have put themselves in a situation to be very good for a very long time. They will have a healthy Greg Oden, with Rudy Fernandez coming over from Spain, and the most valuable player of Las Vegas summer league Jerred Bayless. I know this is BlogaBull, but Portland will be Rough with a capital R with a lineup of Bayless,Roy,Webster,Aldridge, and Oden, with true depth coming off the bench.
D Rose should be a great player 3yrs from now, but it would be nice to put some legit bigs that have some semblance of post moves and offensive skills that bigs should have to be in the NBA. It almost makes you question the work ethic of Tyrus an Jokim. Here they are in their 3rd, and 2nd years respectively, and they still don't know how to do a simple right hook in the lane, or any back to the basket moves. Tyrus would rather just literally leap into a crowded lane out of control and hope for a foul. I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on this, I think that the Bulls should look at some of the talent in the D-League and pick up some legit 7 footers and give them a serious look. This whole idea that the NBA is getting smaller is only true in the back court, the bigs are still big in the front court, and they are athletic. The bulls only have 1 legit 7 footer and thats Aaron Grey, who has some post skills but is way to slow and nonathletic to get serious playing time. The bulls may have dug themselves so far in a hole that they can't get out.
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Which is why
Odom makes a lot of sense. He has a lot of the skills that Pippen had only at PF rather than SF.
by hlac on Jul 20, 2008 12:55 PM CDT 0 recs
His big man comparisons make no sense though
Kevin Love…hasn’t played a NBA game yet. Amir Johnson is the Pistons’ Tyrus Thomas. Anthony Randolph??? He looks like he hasn’t eaten a meal since he was 12, how is he in any better physical shape than Thomas or Noah?
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on
Jul 20, 2008 1:06 PM CDT
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The main idea
was to bring up the fact that these guys have legit post moves that bigs should have coming into the league. Ty and Jo don’t have these moves, and they have at least 2 yrs nba experience. Randolph was a bad comparison maybe, but that’s only assuming that he plays on the wing rather than in the post. But even with him, he has more moves than our bigs have. He is actually a basketball player, and not just some guy that’s tall and athletic.
"I really miss DannyRange"
by DropUOff on
Jul 20, 2008 1:20 PM CDT
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'Ryan Hollins' is what got me
Hollins didn’t even start in college… he played 9mpg last year for the Bobcats. I think someone’s taking a little too much stock in these summer league stats. And it’s kind of a headscratcher to laud the Blazers for acquiring Rudy Fernandez, then slam Paxson for acquiring Asik. Also…
Let’s trade scouting personnel with the Blazers. They know how to draft
Really? I mean, so far Pritchard’s only acquisitions have been Oden (obvious pick), Fernandez, and Bayless, none of whom have played a minute in the NBA. The past regime had one good year with Roy and Aldridge, but besides that they’ve drafted Webster, Telfair, Outlaw, and Qyntel Woods. Let’s wait for them to get to .500 before you start calling them the example.
by YaoPau on
Jul 20, 2008 1:20 PM CDT
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Blazers summer league roster http://www.nba.com/summerleague2008/team/index.jsp?team=blazers
I think it’s obvious that they have a better summer league squad then we do even with D Rose. Part of my reasoning for this post was to say that eventually every team will have a “minor league” Nbdl team, and if so, the bulls are far behind the other teams.
And the blazers will not only be a .500 team, but they will make the playoffs, even in the competitive west. I would go as far to say that they would even be a 2nd round playoff team in the east.
"I really miss DannyRange"
by DropUOff on
Jul 20, 2008 1:34 PM CDT
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You can go so far say whatever you want
Fact remains the Blazers hype is based a ton on the potential of 3 guys who have not played a single minute of NBA basketball, somehow I fail to see how they’re a lock for 50+ wins and we’re screwed in a much weaker conference. They’re still weak at the SF spot, it remains to be seen if Bayless is a legit PG and not just a scorer, and if Oden and Roy can stay healthy for a full season.
And summer league performances are the worst indicators of who can be a good player. Remember Marco Bellinelli? You don’t? Well, there’s a reason why. I doubt any Warriors fans are getting pumped up about Anthony Randolph scoring 30 points in one game.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on
Jul 20, 2008 1:44 PM CDT
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Well if Bayless can't play 1 then Roy Can
Thats the beuaty or what the blazers have goiong, they have guys that can play multiple positions. And you call Webster, and Travis outlaw “weak” at the 3.
"I really miss DannyRange"
by DropUOff on
Jul 20, 2008 2:30 PM CDT
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It's not obvious
The only Blazers summer league player that’s played on a national stage is Bayless. On paper it looks like a below average roster – unless you know something I don’t about Jon Stefansson or Morris Finley.
Part of my reasoning for this post was to say that eventually every team will have a "minor league" Nbdl team, and if so, the bulls are far behind the other teams.
NBA teams don’t keep the rights to their summer league players during the season. They invite each player to summer league, sign/keep a couple and say goodbye to the rest. So there’s really no such thing as being ahead or behind any other team in regards to the non-existent minor league system.
Further, a minor league system is of little value in the NBA because 20 year olds can star in the league right away. In baseball, the top college draftees have to hone their skills in the minors for a couple years before they are ready. At best, an NBA minor league system would help a team develop solid role players out of the rawer talents that currently rot away on NBA benches. The players that really matter – the stars – would jump straight to the NBA like they do now.
by YaoPau on
Jul 20, 2008 1:46 PM CDT
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Saying that
Their NBADL (or summer league) team is better than ours is like saying their WNBA team is better. Does it matter really?
Step 1 - Win lottery. Step 2 - Hire a coach. Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
Jul 20, 2008 7:19 PM CDT
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We Blazer fans were lamenting the zombie-like ineptitude of the Summer League bigs...
................................ but the point is well taken that the caliber of SL squads means nothing—it’s just a chance to give young players run against decent competition. Teams watch a small handful of guys and learn a little doing that. Wins and losses are irrelevant, except insofar as they give an indication how the studied players RESPOND to wins and losses.
I think the Blazers learned an enormous amount about Bayless this summer, for example. Is he a future star? Who knows. But he is one fierce and fearless dino on the court, that much is now known…
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
by timbo on
Jul 27, 2008 1:32 PM CDT
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just FYI,
we were at .500 last year, without Oden/Fernandez/Bayless. We lost some important role players this year, but there’s at least a 75% chance that we improve on our record this year, and I feel that is a fairly conservative estimate.
I'm a rec whore, so sue me.
by premthegrem on
Jul 20, 2008 8:28 PM CDT
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75%??
really…are you sure theres not a 77.546% chance?
by Jbonelli on
Jul 20, 2008 9:07 PM CDT
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41-41
sounds a lot like .500 like he said
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on
Jul 21, 2008 11:39 AM CDT
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I can't resist getting involved
But I promise to get in and get out. No ramblingness.
Part of the KP legend (and was reported during and after the draft before there was a KP legend to uphold) was that he was put in charge of the draft as the assistant GM, even though Steve Patterson was the actual GM.
So, KP ran that 2006 draft and engineered the deals that got Roy, LMA, Sergio, and more 2nd rounders which turned into blah blah blah other stuff. That wasn’t a Steve Patterson draft.
The Blazers have done NOTHING but go .500 with a very young team. It’s cool, but it isn’t much to hang your hat on. There’s a lot left to show. I don’t doubt we’ll be very good very soon, but nothing has happened yet.
I got one question: When CAN Asik come over? I know the 5 years thing Draft Express talked about is supposedly wrong; what is the truth?
Whether he’s lucky, good, whatever, the Blazers have shown that while ANYONE can be bad and get high draft picks, it’s still all about who you get and there is a difference between a good franchise rebuilding and a team eternally in the lottery like the Clippers or T-Wolves. Especially in 2006—those picks were so devalued for the alleged ‘worst draft ever’ that ANYONE coulda’ got in there and stolen a Rudy Gay, Roy, Foye, LMA, etc.
If KP hadn’t taken over, the Blazers would still be in the class of those eternal lottery teams, because the people in charge were bad at their job. Oden was luck, the rest was good work.
The Blazers ain’t done nuthin’ yet, but what they’ve done is cool, and they’re set up nearly perfectly. Debating how good they will be is silly to me, even as a homer debating it with other Blazer fans, because there is no answer except letting time pass.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jul 20, 2008 9:33 PM CDT
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Asik is coming in 2 years...assuming he wants to
He has 2 years left on his contract.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on
Jul 20, 2008 10:49 PM CDT
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hopefully
the dollar isn’t so weak then. for all our sakes.
by JSlakov on
Jul 21, 2008 12:35 PM CDT
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He's a 2nd rounder
So if he’s good and you guys really want him, there will be more flexibility in what you can offer him, I believe, since he was drafted in the 2nd round.
Two years isn’t bad at all, since he’s still reportedly raw and hasn’t played that much in the league he’s in over there. Two years can help him learn some English (if he doesn’t already speak it), bulk up more to fight NBA bigs, and develop his post game.
I know the Hollinger numbers liked him, so two years is nuthin’ since it doesn’t mean you gotta waste a roster spot while he develops (and since he played very few minutes over there, I’m sure he needs more seasoning).
And since the Blazers don’t need another big in the foreseeable future, they get three 2nd rounders.
A trade where everyone wins! Huzzah!
If Asik turns out even serviceable though, it’s more likely to be a “win” for the Bulls what with the likelihood of 2nd rounders becoming good. Still, they make nice throw ins for a trade or are worth a Marcus Camby or sumthin’.
Thanks for the info, Ozzie!
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jul 22, 2008 12:36 AM CDT
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Asik
Supposedly he can play.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on
Jul 22, 2008 12:59 PM CDT
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We Blazers give KP credit for WANTING to draft Chris Paul...
.................................... He was overruled.
I don’t think the Blazers’ scouting is particularly fantastic, I do think that the GM is a master of the draft-day swap and that he’s pretty smart for weighing player character heavily into the equation of who, he drafts.
I’m sure the Bulls are in capable enough hands…
t
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
by timbo on
Jul 27, 2008 1:22 PM CDT
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(typo) whom not who,
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
by timbo on
Jul 27, 2008 1:23 PM CDT
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Having an owner with pockets deep enough to dish $3 million per draft for an extra pick helps, too.
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
by timbo on
Jul 27, 2008 1:25 PM CDT
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Not sure I want Odom
Only way I do this if we can package Hinrich and Nocioni for Odom, and Karl.
"I really miss DannyRange"
by DropUOff on
Jul 20, 2008 1:22 PM CDT
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What?
There is NO way the Blazers would do that deal! And if they did, I wouldn’t want to trade for their scouting personnel…dumb.
Step 1 - Win lottery. Step 2 - Hire a coach. Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
Jul 20, 2008 7:28 PM CDT
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yeah...
oops. dang…
Step 1 - Win lottery. Step 2 - Hire a coach. Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
Jul 21, 2008 10:13 AM CDT
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In one paragraph you call Omer Asik trash, though you've never seen him play...
and he was a 2nd round pick. Then in the next paragraph, you praise the Blazers for having the foresight to draft Rudy Fernandez- 24th in the first round- whom they let develop over seas for a year before buying him out and bringing him over. Though he’s yet to play a game in the NBA, you say this is one of the contributing factors to your opinion that Portland has drafted properly and put themselves in a position to be “very good for a very long time.”
Tell me how the Bulls drafting Asik (who might come over in a year or 2) with a low-risk 2nd round pick is different than the Blazers taking Fernandez with a 1st rounder?
Then
by smash! on Jul 20, 2008 1:22 PM CDT 0 recs
Point taken, blatent contradiction
But, the bulls under the Paxson Regime seem to squander that 2nd round pick.
"I really miss DannyRange"
by DropUOff on
Jul 20, 2008 2:56 PM CDT
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Seriously, I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face
Not a whole lot of 2nd round picks do anything in the league, so you’re starting from pretty low expectations anyway. That Pax has picked up Duhon and Gray in the 2nd is pretty darn good – no matter how much we might all complain about the coaching staff overusing them, both guys made the team and contributed. What exactly do you expect Pax to accomplish in the 2nd round?
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on
Jul 21, 2008 12:03 PM CDT
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Not really
Since you have the gift of hindsight, there are a lot of blown picks. Duhon was a solid 2nd round pick, Aaron Gray, despite being a fatty, will be a serviceable 2nd/3rd string center for 10-15 minutes a game. The only wasted pick was PeeOn.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on
Jul 21, 2008 3:50 PM CDT
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Speaking of Pee-On...
I still think that was the single most bizarre pick by Pax, ever. What was he thinking?
by smash! on
Jul 22, 2008 11:29 AM CDT
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There's a flaw or two here...
You claim the Bulls scouting department botched the picks of Tyrus and Joakim based upon the premise that they are not good post scorers. However it was well known fact that they both had limited offensive games. That’s not why they were drafted.
To properly assess the success of these picks you have to ask, “what did the Bulls project for these two players, and where are they relative to those projections?”
When you answer that question honestly and without bias, you see that the jury is still out on Tyrus. Tyrus was considered a project that was a few years away from being a consistent contributor, but someone who’s energy and athleticism would allow him to change games in the meantime. This has been exactly the case thus far, and we won’t truly be able to assess him for another year or two, though that window is definitely closing.
Joakim has done EXACTLY what he was expected to do coming into this league. He has played with energy, passed, rebounded, and defended extremely well for a rookie. His PER was among the top few rookies’ and he has those “intangibles” that he was lauded for in college as well.
I’d say the scouting department pretty much nailed it.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Jul 20, 2008 1:57 PM CDT 0 recs
Adding a line
When you answer that question honestly and without bias, you see that the jury is still out on Tyrus.
And who’s got intangibles from here to Shenandoah? Don’t knock the post game of my man, Joakim Noah!
I agree with everything you said there. There have been plenty of successful big men who didn’t have a refined post game, and 3 games of summer league ball aside, Joakim’s been pretty good for us.
by YaoPau on
Jul 20, 2008 2:10 PM CDT
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hahaha
I noticed that at the time, but well done sir.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on
Jul 20, 2008 2:27 PM CDT
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Not exactly
We knew what they were coming out of college. We expected them to be hard working enough to at least have decent moves around the basket. My concern is that they seem as awkward with the ball in the low as they did in college with only slight improvement. Overall, they have improved. Tyrus has worked on his free throw shooting and his perimeter touch. I think that he’s convinced that he will be a SF at some point which may partially explain is lack of development in the low post. Jo on the other hand has only seemed to improve is free throw touch. I know he’s younger, but he didn’t show much in Orlando. Paxson has even said on air that he expected more from Jo than what he showed in Orlando.
"I really miss DannyRange"
by DropUOff on
Jul 20, 2008 2:50 PM CDT
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"We expected them to be hard working enough to at least DEVELOP moves around the basket
My mistake there
"I really miss DannyRange"
by DropUOff on
Jul 20, 2008 2:53 PM CDT
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Joakim is older
than Tyrus, and WHO CARES about summer league?! If summer league is more important than the past season, in which Joakim showed great touch at times, then shit, I guess Derrick Rose is a bust too, huh.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on
Jul 20, 2008 7:23 PM CDT
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You want my opinion?
1. Your position is very weak, and your arguments don’t back up your hypothesis.
2. You can easily become a Trailblazers fan any time you want, and nobody will care in the least. (Just go out and buy an Oden or Fernandez jersey – that’s all it takes!).
It really takes guts to predict that a Lottery team won’t be any good. Where were you a year ago, when the Bulls had essentially the same personnel (minus the #1 pick)? Did you predict gloom and doom last year?
First off, your first statements in your first paragraph – about each team having its own minor-league affiliate – are not explained in any way. Why do you think this will happen? Why would it be bad? You just drop the subject completely and start ripping on Pax and the Bulls’ front office.
Secondly, you’re judging players based on just a few years – if that! – of playing in the NBA. Not only are you ready to close the books on Tyrus and LaMarcus – completely forgetting (I assume) that they could each play another 10-15 years in the NBA at varying levels of production – but you’re ready to crown Fernandez and Bayless (who have never played a game in the NBA) the next Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars!! WTF??
Lastly, you actually question the work ethic of Tyrus and Joakim, even though we all know that they had under-developed offensive games when drafted, as well as some of the poorest coaching in professional sports last season. Joakim and Noah were two of the Bulls best players last season. This is borne out both by simply watching the games, and by their +/- and other production stats.
This is a rant, plain and simple. I’ll accept it as such – but don’t expect great opinions of your erudite writing and cogent analysis when you rant like this. You asked for our opinions of your rant – and you’ll probably get some rants back at you.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jul 20, 2008 2:13 PM CDT 0 recs
These guys are pro right?
I do question the work ethic and desire of these Tyrus and Jo. The bottom line is that these guys are pros, and don’t have the offensive skills necessary to play their position. I also think that when we look at Tyrus and LaMarcus 10yrs from now, and took each players best year, LaMarcus will have better numbers. Everyone tries to justify this horrible deal Paxson did, when it doesn’t warrant any justification. It was a bad deal period.
The Bulls need some sort of developing process that is more effective than what we have now.
"I really miss DannyRange"
by DropUOff on
Jul 20, 2008 2:45 PM CDT
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Opinion is different than fact, you know.
You’re also justifying and rationalizing. You state that ‘everyone tries’ to justify the ‘horrible’ deal, when in fact nobody knows how that trade will turn out in 10 years. NostraDropUDamus thinks he or she knows, but you don’t. You really don’t. And it’s perfectly okay that you can’t see into the future. Don’t let it bother you.
And notice your nice linguistic trick there – writing that folks TRY to justify the deal, when in fact you are TRYING to condemn the deal as well. It’s an opinion, it’s not fact, which is why you’re justifying and rationalizing your position as much as the other side.
by BullsFanInSeattle on
Jul 20, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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worst post ever on Blog-A-Bull?
it gets my vote for lack of continuity, shallowness of arguments as well as premise.
by gillrowdy on Jul 20, 2008 2:56 PM CDT 0 recs
Thanks for the vote of confidence
I am truly and sincerely offended
"I really miss DannyRange"
by DropUOff on
Jul 20, 2008 3:00 PM CDT
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We are as well...
It’s your fault.
Step 1 - Win lottery. Step 2 - Hire a coach. Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
Jul 20, 2008 7:26 PM CDT
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rarely is it worth it to question whether someone has actually watched the Bulls...
but that’s where we should start on this one.
by hscs on Jul 20, 2008 3:33 PM CDT 0 recs
Amen.
I’m done responding to it in fact. I tried. I really did. There’s just no way to communicate with some people.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on
Jul 20, 2008 7:25 PM CDT
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Finally
All the love for Tyrus is optimistic at best…projected points per minutes etc. Aldridge is producing now. Tyrus vertical and athleticism will not produce a post up game. Maybe this year he has learned how to jump off 1 foot.
by airmt on
Jul 22, 2008 12:22 AM CDT
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Amen
I recognize that Tyrus is an adopted son of BaB, and it was said eariler concerning Tyrus that
“Tyrus was considered a project that was a few years away from being a consistent contributor, but someone who’s energy and athleticism would allow him to change games in the meantime. This has been exactly the case thus far“
Drafting LMA @2 and trading him for Viktor and agreed upon Tyrus was not a good deal, because the skills of Tyrus are the attributes of a player obtained in the later first round. The Tyrus hype caused Paxson to make irresponsible decisions on draft night 2006.
These skills are similar to Renaldo Balkman, a 20th pick, energy player that changes a game and is a consistent contributor in the Knicks rotation?
In essense a wasted #2 pick in the 2006 draft, instead a true latter first round pick. I honestly believe if Paxson didn’t draft Tyrus but Brandon Roy instead, then Tyrus would have fallen out of the lottery because his stock was just beginning to drop the week before the draft. But his agent did a masterful job of keeping him in the positive spotlight and also Paxson interested. “highway robbery”
by exult463 on
Jul 22, 2008 11:45 PM CDT
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The Positive and Negative
The positive is Paxson recognizes that he got duped in the 2006 draft with Tyrus
The negative is many BaB ers still think Tyrus is going to be superstar!
by exult463 on
Jul 23, 2008 12:32 AM CDT
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