Am I nuts or why are we at least trying for JSMITH!?!?

by yetti on Jul 17, 2008 2:42 PM CDT

So it seems like every NBA fan is now comsumed with getting an all-star point gaurd & power forward. Derron has boozer, Parker has Duncan, and Paul has West. Why the NBA gods decided to bless us, we will never know. But now that we have Rose, our PG-PF equation is nearly complete.

Add to the fact that everyone is so amped up becuase of Tryus's potential. Thats all we ever talk about. Bulls fans spontaneously burst into pools of drooling manics when new summer work-out pieces of information are released about TT. For god sakes there were epic debates on whether he grew an inch or not......

Anyways, Tyrus's potential seems to be at best what Josh Smith is now. JSmith has recently just announced that he doesnt want to play for their coach (who humourously just signed a new 2 year deal). Why not take the money we were going to offer Gordon and sign Josh. Is this so far fetched, at least make the offer! and if they match...well we tried. ESPN "experts" have mentioned numerous times that a large offer will be hard to swallow, or match by Atlanta because of their Franchise/Management troubles. Hell, why not sign and trade Gordon and Tyrus for SMITH.....seems very fair to me. Then we'll have our young budding superstar pointgaurd and powerforward!! plus we'll still have our sexy bench/core. Seriously is this that far fetched....Seems like a younger/brighter future than the other cores....I'd love to hear what you all have to say

And please don't tear up my grammar/spelling.

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we can tear up what we want

but luckily your content is pretty bad too.

Josh Smith is far from the sure thing, even compared to Tyrus Thomas. In fact, Smith has supplied even more evidence that he’ll never ‘get it’, though what he’s done so far is a better resume.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2008 2:45 PM CDT 0 recs

Smith brings to team chemistry what a migraine brings to a mild headache.

I think Matt’s observation that his track record shows he may “never get it” is right on the money. Besides I love TT’s potential. His raw skills just have to be nurtured and developed by competent coaches. I believe he truly wants to silence his critics and excel. He initially underestimated what it would take to reach his goals, but I believe he is now focused and ready to take the next step, hopefully a giant leap. Please, everyone stop bringing up Tyrus’s name in trade talks. You’re breaking my heart.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Jul 17, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

I am a Josh Smith fan but...

I see your point of view of a player that MAY never “get it”. He cleaned up his act in a before his big pay day. I am suprised that more references to Zack Randolph haven’t been made, but I am okay with that. Last year before Noah was drafted, I was in favor to go get ZBO, not so much now.

Noah is a defensive center. The starting powerforward needs to be able to put the ball in the basket and not also be awkward offensively. He is not afraid to shoot it, and he doesn’t look awkward on offense. This makes me think, with time, he will build on and improve his scoring ability & efficiency. I’m not sure the same arguement can be made for Tyrus.

Extending Josh, Deng, & BG would be a lot of money to tie up, but atleast the Bulls will free themselves from Kirk’s salary and do not have to worry about paying Tyrus in a couple years. A starting lineup going forward of Rose, BG/ Thabo, Deng, Smith, & Noah would be young lineup that actually might complement eachother’s stregnths.

by Jesse07 on Jul 18, 2008 8:13 AM CDT up 0 recs

we'd have to sign and trade for him since we're over the cap and we don't want to give them

anything they’d likely want for him.

by fundamentallysound on Jul 17, 2008 2:46 PM CDT 0 recs

Gordon and TT? seems fair to me from both sides

especially since Josh recently told ESPN he won’t play for their coach

by yetti on Jul 17, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up 0 recs

we wouldn't offer that, and trading Gordon for Smith causes all kinds of BYC issues I don't even want to think about how you'd get the salaries to match right

by fundamentallysound on Jul 17, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

Besides...

Gordon would obviously have to agree to that… and I’m not sure he is clamoring to be Joe Johnson’s back up.

by kidronmusic on Jul 17, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

Not advocating the deal

But Gordon and Smith ain’t been signed yet, right? So BYC stuff doesn’t apply for a sign n’ trade.

If the recent reports are true (and I really don’t trust that it is as black and white as it seems, but perhaps it is…), then Josh Smith’s him-or-me attitude with his coach is something you guys don’t want a part of, I’m sure.

I know he fought with his coaches before, flipped off fans, is kinda a selfish player at times, but he is getting a lil’ too big for his britches if he’s already trying to be a coach killer. Only superstars can get away with that, not poor-attitude-athletic-freaks who still is mostly a question mark.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 17, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up 0 recs

they still have the

half-salary thing for the sign and trade.

which in this case would affect both players. twice as much salary going out as coming in for both guys… would be pretty sticky.

by Jaina on Jul 17, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up 0 recs

Also ment to include something on our ability to resing Deng... if possible

and that waiting/positioning ourselves for 2010 is over-rated. Two many teams are already trying to do this. And most likely the big FAs will resign with their current teams anyways. Developing a core of Rose/Deng/JSmith/Noah/Sefolosha seems like a better idea to me!

by yetti on Jul 17, 2008 2:47 PM CDT 0 recs

Josh Smith is far from the low post presence or anything like that

He’s a more realized version of Thomas, complete with even more attitude issues. We don’t want to pay Deng or BG, but hell let’s give 70 million to the guy who averages 18/8 and looks like a crybaby half the time! I guess each highlight dunk is worth 4 points.

And Tyrus growing an inch is pretty important. I wonder if Ben Gordon was 6’5 would so many people hate him, even though he would be just as bad on defense….

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2008 2:56 PM CDT 0 recs

Ben Gordon - 6'5".... isn't that 5 inches?

by yetti on Jul 17, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

lol

so true.

if gordon were bigger people wouldn’t hate him as much, partially because he’d have more of an advantage on offense even if he was still a poor defensive player. he has such a great shot, and would not only be able to shoot over more people, but given his strength, would be able to get to the basket easier.

by Jaina on Jul 17, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

If Ben Gordon was 6'5"...

He would be Michael Redd. Only an inch shorter.

by kidronmusic on Jul 17, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

Which is why I laugh when people lament his size

Michael Redd and a host of other SG’s in this league are taller, yet are horrible on defense. We could have Maggette instead of BG, and you’d still have to play Thabo as a defensive stopper.

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up 0 recs

is redd a good finisher though?

i’d think that bg could be really good at the hoop if he were bigger.

just checking out the hot spots from last season, redd does have a hot spot in the center, bg doesn’t – however bg actually had no blue zones last season. interestingly enough all of 3-pt range was a hot spot for him except right up top in the center. and the only 2-pt hot spot was right about at the free throw line.

anyways, i’m not saying he’d play any more defense or that we wouldn’t need thabo. but he’d at least make up a couple of deficiencies he suffers on offense because of his height.

by Jaina on Jul 17, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

oh, and i'm seriously asking about redd's finishing ability

since i haven’t seen it.

and hell even kirk has a hot spot in the center.

lol, almost half of duhon’s hot spot chart is blue. :)

by Jaina on Jul 17, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

getting to the basket

is for me the key issue with Gordon. In the playoffs, you need to take higher percentage shots. getting to the rim or the foul line is a key ingredient for our shooters. and Ben Gordon, just does not have the needed weight/strenght/height to do this.

so we live and die by his outside shooting waaaaay too much

by gman2849 on Jul 17, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

Unfortunately

the rest of the league knows this.

by NBA Observer on Jul 17, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

i dont think it's that people hate him...

just not someone worth $10 Million a year

by Jbonelli on Jul 17, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

I would love to get Smith!!!

What about offering Noce + ? player + a pick. Would like to hold onto Gordon, TT could be the ? player if that’s the absolute only way to get a deal done.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jul 17, 2008 3:06 PM CDT 0 recs

You're nuts.

by YaoPau on Jul 17, 2008 3:06 PM CDT 1 recs

That man's nuts!

grab em!

(sorry)

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

lol

by gman2849 on Jul 17, 2008 4:22 PM CDT 0 recs

Smith

I read all the comments, and instead of replying to all of them I posted this…Smith is awesome. Best weak side shot blocker in the league, amazing athlete, great talent, can jump out the building, can hit some shots, can be a pain in the ass, can be a rude cry baby, can be disloyal, can be a jerk. Basically he is everything Tyrus is with his volume turned up by 20. He is talent wise everything we want TT to be, and character wise everything we are scared of TT being. The part I find hard to digest is the BG part of this. Atlanta wont want him, and I dont think BG wants to go there and since he is a RFA he has a choice. Atl I think would jump at the chance to get Kirk though. YES they have Bibby for one year at 15 mil, Yes they drafted LAW (career backup) and since Bibby has a one year contract he is easy to move to another team. I think Atlanta might even be willing to give us something extra with Smith for Kirk and TT. Maybe a solid big of sorts will help.
I personally will take this risk 99 out of 100 times to get the best player in the deal.

by NamingRightsOnSale on Jul 17, 2008 5:36 PM CDT 0 recs

"character wise everything we are scared of TT being" is he?

I haven’t heard anything bad about Josh Smith’s character. He seemed to come up big in the playoffs, and the team seemed to play as a unit for the first six games of that series.

by YaoPau on Jul 17, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

Smith has a reputation for being hard to deal with

When things don’t go his way in the first 10 minutes of a game, he starts to pout and give off vibes ala the Mopey Iowan. He got into fights with his teammates (granted it was only Tyronne Lue, but still), and in the past few days as openly admitted he doesn’t like Atlanta’s coach, who comically has been signed to a 2 year contract extension.

I personally would go another ludicrous, not gonna happen route and acquire Joe Johnson, IMO the player who truly deserves the 70 million dollar extension.

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

Last sentence was pointless, JJ already makes 15 million a year

Still, if there’s someone to be had at the starting 2 spot before the vaunted summer of 2010, it’d be the underrated Joe Johnson, assuming Reinsdorf doesn’t want to pay players he doesn’t trust, and wants to go for a more validated scorer.

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

love JJ...i wanted the Bulls to get him...

someone who can not only play the 2, but slide over to the 1 for periods at a time…sweet J

by Jbonelli on Jul 17, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

Here is a better idea

We really don’t need to trade for Smith, but I think this trade for Sammy would be advantageous to all parties involved.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=356991&teams=204&te=&cash=

We get a starting defensive minded center that can run the floor. Philly gets a 2 guard who can score in bunches, runs the floor to compliment their style of play, and plays the passing lanes well. Only problem is that he started his career with Philly, not sure if they would want him back 10yrs later.

"I really miss DannyRange"

by DropUOff on Jul 17, 2008 6:24 PM CDT 0 recs

Your link doesn't work, but I assume you're referring to Dalembert

He’s a pretty solid complement to Brand in his own right, not sure why the Sixers would move him for another perimeter player. They already have Thad Young at the 3 and are likely to bring back Igoudala at the 2.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jul 17, 2008 9:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

They're desperate for an outside shooter with that lineup

But, there’s no reason to trade any of their starters for one. Pretty ironic that they traded Korver for cap relief to eventually sign Brand, and now the one thing that would make them a truly dangerous team would be Korver.

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2008 11:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

Gordon could well start for them

Between Andre Miller and Iggy, and with Thad Young coming off the bench, they’ve got plenty of bigger guys.

I’d maintain the biggest reason for Gordon (and Hinrich and everyone else’s) defensive decline is that they didn’t have anyone solid behind them. In Philly they’d he’d have Dalembert and Brand, who both block a considerable number of shots.

So I see a lot of potential for Gordon fitting in well on the Sixers. He’d basically be replacing Willie Green, a guy with very similar size who’s just not as good.

The downside, of course, is that I see very little on that roster (outside of those guys the Sixers wouldn’t want to give up) that would be sensible for the Bulls.

I kind of like Jason Smith, Marreese Speights and Louis Williams, but I don’t see any of them as being immediately useful to us. And putting together a sign and trade would be complicated in any case.

by Sports2 on Jul 21, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up 0 recs

yetti & namingRights

thanks. I believe that starting open discussion on unloading Tyrus is ok… but Smith, yet talented, probably is a major attitude situation.

by exult463 on Jul 18, 2008 12:08 AM CDT 0 recs

Ya but

My point was he is developed to what we want Tyrus to be. If we keep TT we take a chance on him sucking and being a good guy, sucking and being a bad guy, good player bad guy, or good player and good guy. I think J Smith is the 2nd best option we would TT to be. I will take that, seems like a more than average switch off. Please dont get me wrong, I like how TT plays and i think he is gonna be a hell of a player once he figures it out, but there is a chance he can be a total bust as well.

by NamingRightsOnSale on Jul 18, 2008 5:33 AM CDT up 0 recs

Kirk & TT AND

For all the players that Kirk & Tyrus could bring back, I would think the Josh Smith is a pretty perfect fit. Name a better fit (realistic) to get to pair with a young PG and a gapping whole at the four?

by Jesse07 on Jul 18, 2008 7:37 AM CDT 0 recs

EXACTLY!!!!!

They seem so perfect…plus look at their age…..that was the main reason for my post, plus its do-able! Everyone wants to pick at how bad JSmith’s character problems are but I think a change of senary would do him good. Look at chauncey billups before he finally found the right fit. Smith is young! hasn’t even begun to reach his peak as a player! would look great with Rose! and is somewhat attainable…..just seems to make sense to me

by yetti on Jul 18, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'm still high on TT, but

To piggyback on this Josh Smith idea, I propose the following.

-Bulls receive Josh Smith(sign & trade), Miami draft pick, (plus filler due to BYC)

-Hawks receive Shawn Marion, Kirk Hinrich

-Heat receive Tyrus Thomas, Mike Bibby, ATL draft pick

Miami gets a PG which they desperately need, and get good value in return for Marion’s deal.

Atlanta gets a PG? and a player to do the same that Josh Smith does, maybe better.

Chicago gets a Tyrus Thomas upgrade, dumps a guard and useless long term deal, but opens up the pocket book, because Josh Smith would command about 11.5 per, Deng, 12.5 per, and BG 10.5 per.

The last part of that makes me doubt that’ll happen because I don’t know if Chi is open to the idea of those contracts. (I couldn’t find a way to pawn off Hughes.) Maybe contract lengths as follows
BG – 3 yrs, Smith – 5 yrs , Deng 6 yrs.
Since they’re all ready headed for cap hell, may as well make the most of it.

by kingj41 on Jul 18, 2008 9:45 AM CDT 0 recs