If you were a GM…
by bull83 on Jul 17, 2008 8:38 AM CDT
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PrintIn the last weeks we’ve been discussing a lot of trades. Some people think the Bulls should get a PF, other that they should get a SG to help Derrick Rose. I think we all already understood that Paxton is not going to get anyone really good from Free Agency, because teams like Atlanta (Josh Smith) or Philadelphia (Iguodala) can match every offer. Right now he’s committed in re-sign Deng and Gordon - which I think is a good idea -, and when finishes that task, won’t be there anyone worthless. So, our last chance to improve the value of the team is definitely trading some peaces.
Sports Ilustrated have a good storie about the possible Market Forces of this off-season. It goes from Vince Carter to Shawn Marion, Michael Redd, Rasheed Wallace, etc, etc, etc…
Vince Carter: The Nets already have sent out two of the Big Three, dealing Jason Kidd (Mavericks) and Richard Jefferson (Bucks) over the past five months. Carter could be next as New Jersey goes about clearing cap space for a possible run at LeBron James in two years. Carter, 31, has a huge contract (three more years, $49 million), but he is also a seven-time All-Star who averaged 21.3 points, 6.0 rebounds and 5.1 assists last season.
Shawn Marion: The 30-year-old forward is among the most versatile players in the game and a four-time All-Star. He's also in the final year of a contract that pays him $17.2 million, and is likely going to seek a max-type deal next summer. The Heat might decide to move him now for help at point guard or in the low post rather than risk losing him for nothing. The Lakers and Warriors have been mentioned as possibilities.
Lamar Odom: This year's Finals showed that the Lakers need to get tougher on the interior, and Odom is easier to replace than the 7-foot Pau Gasol. His contract (one more year, $14.6 million) also makes him attractive to other suitors. He could end up back with Pat Riley in Miami, where he spent the 2003-04 season, or up the road in Sacramento.
Ron Artest: The 6-foot-7 swingman is talented, but his volatility has to frighten the rebuilding Kings. It didn't help that Artest recently came out and said he made a mistake by not opting out of his contract that pays him $7.4 million next season. Whether the Kings and Lakers pull the trigger on a long-rumored Odom-for-Artest deal remains to be seen, but Sacramento president Geoff Petrie will surely think about it.
Andrei Kirilenko: Thanks to his strong bounce-back campaign in 2007-08, you don't hear his name mentioned in trade rumors as often as a year ago. But the Jazz can't be too thrilled with the prospect of paying Kirilenko $49 million over the next three years. With Deron Williams due for a contract extension this summer, and Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur eligible to become free agents in '09, Utah could use some payroll relief.
Stephon Marbury: His past three seasons in New York have been a huge disappointment, and he clearly does not fit in the team's plans. The Knicks would rather trade him than buy him out of the last year and $21.9 million on his deal, but they don't want to take back any more bad contracts. Still, some team (the Heat?) might be willing to take a chance on a player who once averaged 20 points and eight assists on a regular basis.
Al Harrington: The versatile Warriors forward fell out of favor with coach Don Nelson last season, and became mostly a role player. Golden State could use Harrington to try to get another big man or to acquire a point guard to help replace the departed Baron Davis.
Rasheed Wallace: Pistons boss Joe Dumars has made no secret that he's looking to make major changes. 'Sheed's reputation will scare off some, but he has only one more year ($13.7 million) left on his contract. How about a reunion with Larry Brown in Charlotte?
Michael Redd: The Bucks were expected to dangle Redd this summer as new general manager John Hammond goes about trying to rebuild the team. But after acquiring Richard Jefferson from the Nets, the likelihood went down. Still, if the Bucks do explore a deal, the Cavs have long been interested in getting the former Ohio State star to help take some of the scoring load off LeBron James.
So, if you were Paxton, which one of this (or others) guys would you really pursue? And what would you offer in return from this package*: Hinrich, Noce, Hughes - I hate him, but I don’t like much this idea, because in 2010 we could get a little more cap space with him - and, why not, Ben Gordon (sign and trade).
Don’t forget that the salaries have to match, and that what you are willing to give in return have to be good to the other team too. This exercise it’s not just what we would like, but also what could benefit both parts.
* I chose those players because they are what people here in BaB have been talking more in the last Weeks
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P-A-X-S-O-N
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
no he means Bill Paxton
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe instead of the Derrick Rose add-on at the top
you should spell out the following;
J-O-R-D-A-N; L-U-O-L; G-O-R-D-O-N; H-I-N-R-I-C-H; J-O-A-K-I-M; N-O-C-I-O-N-I; E-T-C-.
Wait, maybe that’d be too confusing???
Who's E-T-C??
Ha. But to actually address the post, I’d love to have Kirilenko on this team as a running 4. Nocioni and Gooden’s expiring contract, plus one of our “potential” guys sounds about right. Jazz get a guy in Nocioni that Sloan will love and who moves between the 3 and 4 (like Kirilenko) and Gooden’s contract provides some relief. Tyrus would probably be necessary to sweeten the deal for the Jazz, but honestly I’d be fine with that: Kirilenko’s a beast.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
Eddy-Tyson-Curry/Chandler
Those guys were so bad for us we don’t even give them their own last name letter.
I like the Kirilenko idea though. He was a top 5 PF back when he played PF, and I’d imagine we could get him for Gooden and Nocioni. He would be the most perfectest perfect mentor for Tyrus, and he’d put us in a position to win now. I’ll echo your final sentence: Kirilenko’s a beast.
I just got so excited about a possible Kirilenko/Tyrus frontcourt
that I started coughing.
So you see them starting both, playing small ball with no player over 6'9"?
Just curious… I’m not totally against small ball as I think the league is headed in that direction. But that’s pretty darn small when running into the Dwight Howards of the world.
Tyrus might be taller than 6'9" now
But even if he’s not, he wouldn’t be giving up that much height. Dwight Howard is 6’10”, Okafor is 6’10”, Horford is 6’10” (source) They, like Tyrus, might’ve grown since getting drafted, but the point stands that he’s near their height.
Tyrus played center for one game last year, and the severely understaffed Bulls team won the game, with Tyrus getting 12 boards and 4 blocks. I realize he’ll have trouble against some of the wider players (so will Joakim), but if he’s not playing PF, we should be testing him at center, not small forward.
I'm not saying he should play small forward...
he’s a PF. But he’s not a center. He doesn’t have the post game for it offensively. And on D, I feel like he’s still most effective when he can peel off his man and play help D blocking shots and wrecking havoc by flying into the picture from out of no where. So don’t you think his straight-up man D will get him killed against the bigs with muscles like Howard (who is listed everywhere at 6-11 btw). Horford and Okafor are really undersized when used at center and unless the majority of the league heads in that direction, 6-10 centers are still the minority.
As for the TT grew 2 inches line, I thought we simmered that chatter down earlier in the summer when Thorpe said it was just the angle of the photo that made TT look so much taller than Deng? I could be mistaken but I thought that was the case….
So if we trade 2 good players for Kirilenko...
you obviously imply he’ll be the starter. How many mins per game will TT get?
I think the most important part of 2008-09 is to find out what we have in TT, Thabo and Joakim. And in order to see growth they need PT. Let em play, let em grow, then talk about trades when we’re more certain what we have.
Also, picking up his 3 yr contract means we have less $ to offer FA’s in two summers. I’ll take the possibility of Bosh or Wade over Kirilenko any day…
I'd take Bosh and Wade too
and I still think 2010 is clearly the best option. But if we’re going to go for it now, getting Kirilenko for Gooden and Noc, playing a 3-man front court rotation of Kirilenko/Tyrus/Noah this year, and using Hughes’ expiring contract a year from now to land another big name… it might just work.
They WOULD play
In clearing out Gooden AND Nocioni, you free up more minutes at both the 3 and 4, and maybe even a few at the 5, which Gooden sometimes played. The frontcourt would be Kirilenko, Tyrus, and Joakim…oh yeah Gray too. There’d be PLENTY of PT. Any other PF/C’s on this roster I’m forgetting?
And the added benefit of shipping Noc out is that Thabo now slides in as the backup 2 AND 3, giving him extra PT too.
And the POSSIBILITY of Bosh or Wade versus the REALITY of Kirilenko…I’m not so sure.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
I agree
Everyone is trying to get some cap space for 2010. And if Bosh, Wade, James and the other guys agree to stay with their teams?
I don’t know what the Jazz would demand from ut to trade Kirilenko, but if they agreed to receive Gooden and Noce, I would do that trade right away.
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
What about
Deng…I still think this can work since we give out 2 guys in the front court, but we still need to account for deng cuz hes gonna start. I think It should be deng, AK, and noah starting with TT coming off the bench but still getting alotta minutes. I think AK fits our team really well, esp if he works on his outside shot some more. Hes a great defender and loves to play up tempo. Hed be sick with Rose…
Terrible mistake
I apologize. There, are you happy?
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
I'm happy if you feel shame.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Spelling nerds are so annoying!
You understood the point didn’t you? Stop filling the post with meanless corrections
by JustAnotherFan on Jul 17, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
With no intention of being mean
English is not your first language, is it bull83? Honestly, I’m not saying that disparagingly… just curious. That doesn’t mean you get a pass for misspelling Paxson, though.
No, it's not!!!
I already said it a lot of times. But if all you guys want to discuss my English instead of my post, I propose to Matt to erase the post. I don’t mind
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
ok, cool
I haven’t come across you saying that before – my bad. I give kudos to you for writing confidently in your second language. I won’t bring it up again.
Thanks for the motivation ;)
I know that my writing it’s not good. I just try to make you guys understand my points, without making a lot of mistakes. If you guys can, good! If not, my bad!
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
Portuguese
I don’t know if you guys know, but in Portugal are tons of Bulls fans. I’m just one of them, and one of the most interested in reading everything about the Bulls and discussing some things regarding the Bulls. And since in Portugal we don’t have a blog like BaB, I have to make an effort to write in English
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
that's cool.
my sister knows portuguese. i can understand a little bit. she lived in brazil for 2 years.
yeah I guess I should take it easy in that case
however, in any language, it’s Paxson.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Understood
PAXSON, PAXSON, PAXSON, PAXSON, PAXSON… ................................................. PAXSON ….......................................................................... PAXSON ….......................................................... PAXSON ….................... PAXSON…..................................... PAXSON!!!
I won’t forget how to write PAX… TON – just kidding – anymore!
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
Well, it's a good thing for you all that I'm not GM,
because I’d probably have done pretty much what Pax has done over the past few years – maybe with the exception of getting Deng signed last year., since I did think he was worth a slightly higher offer than the “alleged” $57.5m. Kirilenko is intriguing to me, plus with BigBenign’s deal above, and given the possibility of Boozer walking and the reports of Williams not wanting to sign till he knows what will be around him, I could see the Jazz being willing trade partners. I guess I trust VDN’s talent to massage AK’s ego enough to get a good performance out of him, plus if Gooden and Tyrus were gone he could play the 4 more. (But I’d really rather not trade TT!)
Mostly, though, I like the guys on the team and would like to see how this season goes. I believe last season was a good learning experience for all of them, who with the exception of Kirk hadn’t been on a “bad” team that didn’t play together and had to try to work through a lot of issues. I think we, and sports fans in general, tend to focus significantly on what happened in the immediate past at the expense of a broader view of development, and then when guys are dumped after a bad season and bounce back elsewhere we’re all pissed off about it. If a great deal shows up, I hope Pax grabs it, but I’m good with him not being out there right now proactively trying to stir things up.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
Oh, but forgot to add, if Hughes cant' be traded/isn't bought out,
I do think it’s obvious that one of the 3 returning guards (BG, Thabo, Kirk) deserving of significant PT needs to be traded, just to have any shot at a reasonable line up. But I also think BG’s contract situation and who will bring the best deal in return play as significant a role in that as just trying to figure out which guard people like least at this moment in time.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
Fact is...
...it’s just a crummy year to be needing so much from such a limited free agent crop.
I wouldn’t expect any miracles for the Bulls this summer. The best we can hope for is that the players we have develop over the course of the year (hopefully they don’t get too discouraged by the end of the circus trip), and we can make some solid free agent moves next year or the year after…
I'd go for another young player, probably a SG, someone who can shoot lights out.
That way, Rose’s strongest strength (huh?) his penetrating and dish ability he demonstrated at Memphis will have lights out effects. Or something. 35, 27, 36… those are okay percentages for a 3-pt shooters, but having one of the ten best 3-pt shooters of all time, and if he were still young… that’d be something really awesome to pair alongside Rose. I’ll go see if there is anyone like that out there the Bulls might reasonably expect to get.
by tyger1147 on Jul 17, 2008 11:09 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You're dreaming
lets try to be realistic here.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
I see what you did here
You’re a clever one.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
thats a good idea
it would be even better if he could also find his own shot and benefit from the lack of attention being paid to im while the defense focuses on rose. and i hope he’s clutch and has a good work ethic.
Most people with disagree with me but...
I would go for RASHEED WALLACE!
He rebounds, he defends, he is a threat on offense.
Yes, he is risky but he has just 1 year on his contract and will bring some hot blood for this team. Right now I think this Bulls is too soft and low energy
Bring ‘sheed and hype it up. If the Pistons would go for it I would give them either gooden + noah or noce + gooden. Maybe a 2nd round pick too
by JustAnotherFan on Jul 17, 2008 11:29 AM CDT reply actions
Among your list
the two choices I like are Lamar Odom and Stephon Marbury.
First, my long view of the Bulls is that the 08-09 season will be a mediocre. The 09-10 season we will contend for the playoffs. And by 10-11 we will be contenders. I do not think Gordon and Deng are players that will ever produce at levels to constitute paying them max or near max deals. Both players have glaring weaknesses that require extra players and extra contracts to cover up those weaknesses.
Factoring in the ongoing nongoing negotiations with Gordon and Deng, I consider both players expendable. I would dangle Ben Gordon in front of the Knicks. Gordon will sell the Knicks on the deal himself. In return I want Marbury’s expiring contract. Without Gordon’s deal and Marbury’s expiring deal we’d have plenty of cap space to work with. The notion that we must wait for 2010 is silly. As you’ve seen with the Jason Richardson trade and the Marcus Camby trade, a team under the cap can make almost any favorable deal they want. You can twist the arms of all the luxury tax peddlers and pry away veteran talent(Nowitzki, et al).
Deng is a question mark. The QO doesn’t help the Bulls, but it gives Deng all the leverage. We likely need to trade him now or hope for the near impossible notion of Deng waiving his bird rights and agree to a trade mid 08-09 season.
I’d prefer to package Nocioni and Hinrich in a trade for Odom, but that might not get it done. So just subtract Noc and replace him with Deng. The deal will look terrible for the Bulls, but it’s a cap maneuver. Odom expires next summer. He’d give us a ball handling point forward, granting additional flexibility to play Thomas as the 3 and not worry about his ball handling.
A brief lineup review after my moves.
PG: Rose, ???
SG: Thabo, Hughes
SF: Odom, Noc
PF: Thomas, Gooden
C: Noah, Gray
Good backup PG options out there are Keyon Dooling and…the next Ramon Sessions. We’d also still need a solid three point shooter.
The roster wouldn’t be built to score, but it would be built to defend and run. The focus would still be developing our future players in Thabo, Thomas, Rose and Noah.
I would change
“the roster wouldn’t be built to score” to “the roster wouldn’t score”. Marbury or Odom, really? You’d rather pay Odom 15 million than pay Luol 11 or 12?
Marbury's name is absent the roster
Tim Thomas him.
I don’t think Deng wants 11 to 12 million. We offered him that last October. I think he wants 14-15 million and I don’t think the Chairman will pay that.
by NBA Observer on Jul 17, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
My crystal ball tells me that this is going to be a breakout season for Deng
as long he remains healthy. I would not trade him straight up for Odom.
Remember this post all you doubters. If I’m wrong, you can trash me unmercifully, but I would not be surprised if Luol makes the all-star team this season (as a reserve), thanks in large part to a recent addition into the Bulls bouquet, a beautiful, blooming Rose.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Jul 17, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
But what about his contract?
He can be awesome or bad, but I still need to know what we have to work with money wise and how much tilt Deng will or will not possess.
by NBA Observer on Jul 17, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I would pass on all of the above
Hi guys,
New here, lurked a long time, now a first post.
IMHO, I think that the real problem is, and I know arguments will follow this, is a TRUE Center. Noah, is a PF out of position at Center. Tyrus a worse choice. Gray, I’m not convinced that he is a starter in this league.
Nobody on the list of players they might pursue solves this problem. Now when to hold ‘em here, I think.
Too bad about Marcus Camby, maybe not the HUGEST guy, but a shot-blocker for sure. I say too bad, because the price was right, one second round draft pick. They gave away two 2nd round picks to draft Omer Asik (after the Sonny Weems choice, could have picked Rose’s teammate CDR as well, he was picked immediately after that with the pick following the Weems/Asik pick) their 2nd round pick, who is 2 years away from joining the team due to his existing contract. All of a sudden, Camby sounds like kind of a steal.
I realize Denver did not want to acquire a new big contract, but just get rid of one, by trading for a future pick, that’s clear. But man, Camby AND Tyrus? Try driving down the lane against those two. Da*n!!
Great Blog here by the way.
RTBLUES
Fan since the Dick Motta days….
Don’t be too sad people, just remember:
Tate Armstrong
Scott May
Leon Benbow
Bobby Wilson
Orlando Woolridge
and, of course,
who could forget,
Delmer Beshore (sp?)
Things could be worse!
Welcome to the board :)
I agree that the Bulls will need an upgrade at the center position in order to win a title. (That could be in the form of a developed Noah or Tyrus, though they’re both 20 pounds and a couple inside moves away.)
Camby though, wasn’t really an option for us. The Nuggets were in the luxury tax zone, and as a result, shedding Camby’s salary saved them nearly twice his salary. That move makes it pretty clear that management decided to scrap the team after their playoff loss, and I doubt we could’ve gotten Camby for Hinrich or whatever else we thought of on this board.
actually this team was built
around Curry… if it werent for his lack of Defense, Rebounding and Hustle under the boards (I think waaaay more then his heart condition) we would have already won a championship. (I forgot to add stupid turnovers and bad passing)
IMO, bulls management Overreacted to his lack of Defensive skills by drafting mostly Defensive players who don’t have any inside moves.
Imagine Curry’s quickness, height/bulk and inside scoring skills combined with Tyrus’ Speed, Hops and Defensive tenacity.
THAT’S who we need….
That's the Chicago Way
or something like that.
by NBA Observer on Jul 18, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
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