which shot was the more difficult to do?
by Aiafati on Jul 14, 2008 5:48 PM CDT
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Printi know this has nothing to do with the bulls but this topic was debated during the playoffs. i just want to know what you think.
for me if both of the moves were to be done intentionally, the more difficult to do may be cp3's.but then i think cp3's move was unintentional.if it didn't go in,then no debate may have happened. but to that of kobe's, he intentionally did it against a tight defender, in a playoff atmosphere and an injury.
what do you think.
kobe's backboard bounce and dunk
or
cp3's circus reverse lay up?
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See, I've done both.
In playoff games. Against Scottie Pippen. In his prime.
Kobe’s move is more impressive to me. Here’s why:
CP3’s (by the way, lame nickname) move was an instinctual one, done in response to playing thousands of basketball games over the course of a lifetime. After years of basketball, it’s pure instinct to throw the ball up in the air when getting fouled. But, cause CP3 is an exceptional player, his awareness of where the hoop is in relation to his body is much better than yours, mine or Chris Duhon’s. But, what it all boils down to, is a knee-jerk reaction coupled with amazing body control and court awareness.
Kobe’s play, however, was a conscious decision. He found himself caught in the air after a ball fake splitting two defenders. He had the wherewithal to realize that A) the odds of him making that shot were low B) there was no defender between him and the basket and C) a well placed rebound would lead to an easy dunk. He makes this decision and executes all while hanging in the air, a split second before he lands. To me, that’s body control coupled with years of intense hoops savvy acquired after years playing on the professional level.
That’s what I think.
Ehh simpler terms i think is this
Kobe did his with a sort of plan, he purposely threw the ball at the backboard, and planned on catching it and putting it in. I didnt think so at first, but my cousin showed it to me in slow mo, and kobe throws the ball in mid air, and moves towards the rim, the ball goes off teh glass, nowhere near the rim (and i think kobe could hit the rim at least even if he threw up a prayer) and kobe takes off and puts it in. No way that couldnt be planned.
Cp3 attacked the rim, and threw the ball up in the air and put a spin on it, the only plan he had was to attack the basket, like you said he has practiced throwing it up that way enough that he knows how to throw it up to better increase the chance of the ball going in, but its still just a long shot, no plan. Its alot of luck
Id take the skilled manuever which i think kobe could replicate whenever i want, as opposed to the lucky throw up that spun the right way.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
I disagree, and actually think the reasons you suggest implicate why CP3's is so much more impressive
he did his in the blink of an eye and he was all the way underneath the hoop when he did it. kobe split the defense as he’s done a million times and forced a bad shot and was just smart enough to realize it was way off in time to easily dunk it before anyone could challenge him.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 14, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
being smart enough to know you made a bad shot
being fast enough to react before anyone else and put back in before the ball has a chance to hit the ground….even if that was the case, thats just genius, that is skill. Kobe was not going to miss, and paul luckily didnt. if the same play was repeated a 100 times, i can see kobe succeeding all 100 times, the same cant be said about what paul did. Skill vs luck is how im looking at it.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Jul 14, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess my point was more a matter of the question that was posed
which was which shot was more difficult, rather than which shot required more skill. I’ll give you that Kobe’s was an incredibly heady play and that he could do it many times again and again, but that’s why I think Paul’s was more difficult. Sure, it may have been lucky and he probably only hits that shot 3 or 4 times out of 10, but he still made it and it WAS incredibly difficult.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 15, 2008 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Doesnt Luck Dismiss Difficulty?
Say you are Homer Simpson, there a nuclear crisis at hand, and sitting at your console you have the ability to divert it so long as you push the right button of the many buttons in front of you. The decision is difficult as to which button will cease the crisis, so to make it alot easier you close your eyes, “eenie meenie miney moe” and choose a button and out of sheer lucky are able to press the right button. The moment you relied on luck, you took away the difficulty of figuring out which button was the right button and ended up doing something random,which ultimately worked.
Now if you are a normal technician, on a brand new console, and you accidently trigger a crisis, however as soon as you do you are able to fix it by hitting the right succession of buttons, to divert it, you would have gone through a far more difficult process which might have only looked easier due to you knowledge. Luck vs skill…
What chris paul did, could be done by pretty much anyone in the nba, throwing the ball up, not everyone would be able to make it, but chances are some non special talents would be able to get a lucky spin on the ball causing it to fall in. However, how many players would have reacted the way kobe did during that play, how many would have the peace of mind to know exactly how to react. I dont even think lebron would have reacted as fast or done the same manuever, and would have opted for complaining about the foul. Circus shots are not rare in the nba, but how many times have players done what kobe did in that play?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
no, luck doesn't dismiss difficulty
the shot was still nearly impossible, just as Homer’s decision was probably going to be wrong. The decision for Homer was still difficult even though he was ultimately lucky and successful. Same thing goes for CP3, that shot was nearly impossible to make, but he got a little lucky. Doesn’t change the fact that that shot is incredibly difficult (much moreso than throwing a self-alley oop which has been done many times before, even by marginal talents like Jamal Crawford). The difficulty of the shot is independent of the outcome, if he missed it, it’s still an incredibly hard shot to make; the only difference is that he was lucky in this instance and it went in. IF the question had been which was a more skilled play, then yes I’d say Kobe’s was the better, smarter play. However, Paul’s was much more difficult and relied on an instinctual reaction to make a highly difficult play possible.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 15, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Good analysis...and in line with what Bertrand Russell
wrote about contests of skill.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Both great plays but
I’ve seen Jamal Crawford do what Kobe did on a couple of occasions when he was with the Bulls. To me that lessons Kobe’s play a bit and makes it seem a little more doable. So I’m giving my vote to Paul’s no look over the back flip shot after absorbing some contact.
By the way guys...
Let’s not forget one of the greatest off-the-backboard dunks of all time performed by a Chicago Bulls legend!
Man,
those were some lean fucking years…
by OldSkoolSloan on Jul 14, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Kobes is better
but on a side note, i thought the bests hot of this years playoffs was Nash’s leaning three in the corner right before Manu won game 1 in 2OT. Nash was drifting and had a hand in his face at like 25 ft out and drained it. Talk about clutch
CP3's is easily more difficult.
Notice the spin he puts on the ball. MJ must have gave him pointers.
Kobe
Have to go with Kobe’s shot. To be able to adapt and react from that situation that quick was just amazing. Paul’s shot felt like one of those gut reaction shots. It’s like a natural reaction for Paul to do, more instinct but less thought. While Kobe’s shot required more quick thinking from the series of events that happened.
cp3
only cause it was aganist the spurs and we all know that denver cant play any defense
"It is playoff time. Whoever responds and changes quicker is going to win four games and then go to the next round." - Toni K
ok revised comment
what is the more difficult shot? i’ll say cp3.
more skill? kobe. thus to me, the kobe play is more impressive, even though it wasn’t as “hard” to technically pull off.
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