BlogABull 5th Anniversary Retro-Post: "The 2004 Draft"
It's true (and a bit strange, to be honest): BlogABull (including its previous independent blogspot incarnation) is celebrating its 5th anniversary. Rather than merely the usual single self-serving post, this year I've instead decided to extend my self-congratulations through the summer. I'll be picking out some landmark posts through the years for reflection and laughs about the blog and the franchise it's covered in that time. So consider it my thanks to all the readers over the years: needless to say, it's more fun for me with all of you around to share it.
The Bulls had 2 top-ten picks in the 2004 draft, and I had assumed that it was a precursor towards dealing for veteran help (I was a big Al Harrington guy, yuck). At the time I had serious reservations over the Bulls being such a young team, and after several years of watching Curry/Chandler/Crawford (and coach Cartwright), culminating in the complete disaster that was the 2003 season, I was likely just wanting some competence back in the organization.
This was originally published 6/25/2004:
After being brow-beaten with trade rumors, like last year....there was just draft picks, like last year. Especially after the deal for Phoenix's #7 pick, I was expecting at least one or two veterans to be heading to Chicago by today. But looking at it as simply draft picks, getting Gordon at 3 and lucking out with Deng at 7....that's not bad. That's basically as good as it can get. Mixed feelings abound. Like I said yesterday, I'm not sure a Gordon-Hinrich backcourt can last defensively. And couple that with Deng's supposed unathleticism, a scoring wing player could torch the Bulls. But that is assuming Deng is going to be relied upon heavily, which he shouldn't. This offseason (and tradeseason) should still be looking for a defensive-minded 3. Since Deng has been praised for his maturity and background it has been masking the fact that he is still only 19. He won't be starting this season. I wanted Iguodala at #3 instead of Gordon, but I also wanted Michael Pietrus last year instead of Hinrich. So I am willing to give Paxson the benefit of the doubt here. As much as wing defense was needed, scoring was perhaps needed even more. When Jalen Rose was shipped out, it was the green light for Jamal Crawford to be the primary scorer on the team. He didn't come through, so hopefully Gordon can help him out. Or will Crawford even be around? I am guessing that Crawford will either be signed to an exorbitant offer sheet by teams under the cap like the Bobcats, Hawks, or Nuggets. And there's always the possibility of a sign-and-trade. Maybe that's the way Paxson gets his wing defender. And then there's the character issue. All the talk today has been about the Paxson-Skiles mold. Getting character guys from big-time programs with maturity and hard work ethic and all that garbage. As much as the organization feels burned by malcontents like Curry and Crawford, I am hoping Paxson still is going for talent over anything else. Don't draft Luol Deng over Iguodala because Deng developed maturity escaping from war-torn Sudan or learned how to be an upstanding young man from Coach K. Draft him because you think Deng is *better*. You know who was a mature guy from a big-time program? Jay Williams. And before he went Evil Knievel on us, he turned out to be a spoiled brat who couldn't handle the NBA life. So I am hoping Paxson isn't putting too much stock into the character issue. So all in all, I'm pleased. Kindof. Maybe. At the least the Bulls got 2 guys that should help soon, and are 'assets' (the buzzword of the week) that can possibly be moved for a star. The team still has holes, but Crawford may be dealt and there's still free agency. Notice I haven't mentioned Chris Duhon. Well, if he beats out Jannero Pargo in camp, more power to him. Oh I forgot, Duhon has 'court-savy'. Why does my hometown team have to be "Duke, the pro years"???? And when you're watching the Draft and you see Xenophobe Dick Vitale (I don't think ESPN got those letters I sent last year) giving your team an A++++++, its hard to get that excited. meh. that's it. just......meh.
Of course, Crawford was signed/traded later that summer, for cap relief, and the Bulls went into that year with a very young squad. The fact that Gordon and Deng (and Skiles) came in and made the team winners while still being that young...maybe that's why I'm more hesitant to deal away youth nowadays. While my stance on younger players may have changed, looks like some things haven't: I've never given too much effort into draft analysis, have always been worried about Pax's 'character' rhetoric, and the Hinrich-Gordon defensive backcourt is an issue here to this day.
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The Hinrich-Gordon ability to last defensively was prophetic. Not choosing Iggy over sill Gordon hurts.
What we do with Hinrich or Gordon will be a key decision for us. I am curious to see how Hinrich and Gordon play with Rose. Gordon could benefit tremendously from Rose’s penetration. I am more confused about Hinrich’s responds to Rose. We are up by six with four minutes to play – a Rose/Thabo back-court looks mighty good.
by chgobr on
Jul 13, 2008 3:55 PM CDT
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But how does a Rose-Thabo backcourt look down by six?
Man, I hope those jumpshots develop…
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on
Jul 13, 2008 3:59 PM CDT
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It's funny to read that and realize it could practically be something
you’d written just today, minus the reference Jay Williams of course.
I found it even funnier to read the paragraph about Duhon, knowing in hind sight that he would not only make the team but play a significant role in your Bulls’ frustration level over the next/previous 4 years. (It’s good to find humor in that, knowing he’s now with our friends, the Knicks.)
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on
Jul 13, 2008 3:55 PM CDT
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It's basically like the Knicks are thinking:
“If we take everything the Bulls DON’T want, say… Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry, Mike D’Antoni+ and Chris Duhon, we will then become a championship-caliber team.”
What a great plan.
+yes, I know how that actually played out
by tyger1147 on
Jul 13, 2008 4:08 PM CDT
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History is dangerous in this case
you’ll be able to predict every player personnel decision made by the organization. Frustration will mount, and you’ll battle internally attempting to keep a postive stance based on your influence.
I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes…
by exult463 on
Jul 13, 2008 4:21 PM CDT
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What about the masses?
Matt, when you do these historical posts, is it possible to include the comments from the peanut gallery too? As I recall, this summer was the summer I discovered blog-a-bull, and it would be a fun trip down memory lane to occasionally see my half-baked opinions (or haikus as the case may be), in addition to the rantings of my compatriots.
John Paxson has been like family to me. I can no more disown him than I can disown my white grandmother, who also was unable to pull off any deals for superstar free agents or hire a top-notch coach.
by preverbal on
Jul 13, 2008 4:22 PM CDT
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I'd be embarrassed to see some of my early comments.
I was lamenting losing Eddie Curry. There was someone on BaB who was really mean. I forgot his name but he randomly would rip people apart for reasons I could not understand. That lasted one year. I liked seeing FlaBull at American Airlines Arena when we swept the Heat. Sweeping the Heat was really fun. I still love the 2008 lottery, “and the # 9 pick is….........Charlotte”. BaB went crazy only to be crazier when we got the #1 pick. Oh the memories.
by chgobr on
Jul 13, 2008 4:32 PM CDT
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Paxson Jackson?
Ryan’s still here, he’s hscs. He use to give me some good one-liners that made me stop posting for a couple days.
"Glen Davis??? wow!! We had Glen Davis, his name is Michael Sweetney" - tyrus4prez
by NittanyBull on
Jul 14, 2008 3:54 PM CDT
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LOL
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 14, 2008 9:34 PM CDT
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I rememeber Haiku season fondly. :)
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on
Jul 13, 2008 5:10 PM CDT
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on the blogspot site
the comments have disappeared
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 13, 2008 5:25 PM CDT
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Not all of them
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/cubfan/112604936118705583/
Check out this new highenergy pill. You will be energized by this natural supplement.
I can’t decide if that’s better or worse than the “Derrick Rose out for year” post.
by Big D on
Jul 13, 2008 5:29 PM CDT
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Wow
What a long strange trip it’s been
I wonder what I was saying back in the day as well
by Option27 on
Jul 13, 2008 5:18 PM CDT
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How comical is that Duhon didn't even have to beat out Pargo
They were teammates. Viva la revolucion de smallball!!!!
by Ozzie Montana on
Jul 13, 2008 5:46 PM CDT
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For a few years, it seems Pax main strategy was to get the shortest players possible at their position
draft: hinrich, gordon, duhon, tyrus (undersized PF at the time)
trade away: crawford, curry, chandler, aldridge
sign: ben wallace
...
of course, this has changed recently by drafting noah & gray, trading away wallace for gooden & hughes
by KentuckyBullsFan on
Jul 13, 2008 8:30 PM CDT
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If we were still going that route,
we would’ve drafted Beasley.
by Prevenge on
Jul 14, 2008 12:01 AM CDT
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lol @ meh
:::starts to read old posts::::
big up man
by Belize on
Jul 14, 2008 1:24 AM CDT
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You know what sucks
We have had so many chances to get better and we keep messing it up. This is starting to annoy me now that I think of it. We never had a chance this good, but we have screwed up a lot of chances
by NamingRightsOnSale on
Jul 14, 2008 2:08 AM CDT
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How would you have done that draft?
Iguodola and Deng? The Bulls would have been even worse offensively. Shaun Livingston or Devin Harris? Again, 2 guys without a fully developed jumpshot or offensive game at the time. Josh Smith wasn’t even a lottery pick. The only guy you could lament missing out on was Al Jefferson, and since Curry was already on the team he would have been redundant anyways.
by Ozzie Montana on
Jul 14, 2008 10:41 AM CDT
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Heres another oldy, yet a goody
http://bulls.blogspot.com/2003_12_28_archive.html
Heres an excerpt that i found intresting:
“I remember when he was first getting put in the rotation and he looked completely overwhelmed, but its amazing to see a rookie be the kind of floor leader that he is. Granted, its a team with only 9 wins, but you can tell how the team is effected when he’s off the court. And more importantly than court vision and leadership and those other ‘intangible’ point guard qualities are 2 important parts of his game. He can Defend. And he can shoot. Those are 2 things that are rare on this team, and frankly 2 things that a healthy Jay Williams likely would have never mastered. I know its only a month of good basketball, but is it too early to think that Hinrich will be a better fit for this team than Jay Williams ever would have been?”
Theres some other funnies in that comment, like the Timberwolves once being good, and an old player who had huge upside, tons of athleticism, but never became anything.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on
Jul 14, 2008 11:25 AM CDT
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Yeah, thank god we drafted Kirk....
He can Defend. And he can shoot
I remember Kirk being my favorite player around the time of that post. And not just because he was our shiny new rookie. In fact, I was a big Jay Will fan, (I was 8 rows back from the floor for the game that he owned Jason Kidd and the Nets with a trip double.) So when we drafted Kirk, I thought we were settling for a point guard that would never be special. But on that Bulls team, with a roster of underachievers, Kirk stood out quickly for the things he did do well.
Matt, I’m really enjoying these old posts. I can read them and remember exactly how I felt about things back then. And, it makes me feel a lot better about the team we have now. Kudos on 5 good years of Bulls blogging.
by kidronmusic on
Jul 15, 2008 10:41 AM CDT
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Kirk was so beloved
Because it seemed like he was the first Bulls player in years who actually gave a damn, at least aside from Elton. I remember him taking it to the hole so much during his rookie season, I really wish he would go back to that part of his game, especially if he’s going to be a 2 guard next year.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on
Jul 15, 2008 11:27 AM CDT
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I dont think its out of the question
I agree that ben gordon and luol deng will probably always be better scoreres than kirk, but i also think that kirk hinrichs offensive game never really got better because the two players were drafted the very next year. I always wonder what kirk hinrich would have been say if ben gordon had not been drafted.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on
Jul 15, 2008 12:40 PM CDT
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he would've been surrounded by even more lottery picks
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 15, 2008 12:50 PM CDT
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Heh
but he wouldve been better, and maybe it would take a bit longer but the bulls probably would have had maybe brandon roy. Maybe we couldve been like the blazers, all creepy cult like!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on
Jul 15, 2008 1:09 PM CDT
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Brandon Roy would have made Kirk even more obsolete
He has the ball in his hands way more than Gordon ever does with the Bulls, since he’s a better combo guard than Kirk.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on
Jul 15, 2008 2:42 PM CDT
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right
I quickly became put off by the Jay Williams era, even before the vroom-vroom-go-boom. As I said in the post, I was really just wishing for competence. Kirk certainly was competent.
Thanks for the kind words.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jul 15, 2008 12:51 PM CDT
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Are you getting soft????
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on
Jul 15, 2008 2:43 PM CDT
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Very prescient.
I’m not sure a Gordon-Hinrich backcourt can last defensively. And couple that with Deng’s supposed unathleticism, a scoring wing player could torch the Bulls.
by messwiththebull on
Jul 15, 2008 1:34 PM CDT
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