Josh Smith & Tayshaun
by Jesse07 on Jul 10, 2008 3:13 PM CDT
56 comments
Apparently, nobody told the Bulls that they are allowed to start signing free agents. (footnote: Jrome) I know they are sitting back and waiting and trying to do the smart thing, but isn’t that what put the Bulls in there current state? The wait and see and weigh out every possible scenario is a recipe for meritocracy not excellence. I would rather take the Bull by the horn and make things happen. Deng & BG are complimentary players not All-star. Why don’t the Bulls get a budding All-star in Josh Smith?
The Bulls should overpay for Josh Smith and hope Atlanta’s management is too scared to match the offer. They already have Al Horford at the power forward position and Marvin is not the answer at SF. Let the Hawk settle for Deng while the Bulls steal an All-star.
The next step is to solidify the small forward position. The Bulls could keep Noce playing SF and be okay, but I would rather shoot for the moon. The Pistons want a shake up. Trade away Noce & Tyrus for Tayshaun Prince. The money works and Tyrus has to have some value for Joey D because he has played absolutely nuts vs the Pistons.
Finally, sign BG to 7 – 9 million a year. Without Noce’s reserve contract, the Bulls could afford to pay Ben his money. Kirk could stay around to ease in Rose to the point guard role. By the time Rose, is ready to take over Kirk will still be an affordable serviceable vet.
(I hate when people show the depth chart, but here is the gist of it)
Rose, Kirk
BG, Thabo
Tayshaun
Josh Smith
Noah
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oh how I wish I wish I wish
one of these years the Bulls actually got off to a decent start, so Deng or Gordon could’ve received a token all-star appearance.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 10, 2008 3:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Deng should have gotten it in 2007
But, then everyone would just say that All-Star teams are overrated.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 10, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say that anyway :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 10, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should be happy
if either gets +100k votes..
by exult463 on Jul 10, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that good?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 10, 2008 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no. za za pachulia got 100k in votes this year.
fuck you, that's my name!! you know why, mister? 'cause you drove a hyundai to get here tonight, I drove a eighty thousand dollar bmw. that's my name!!
by MarketMaker on Jul 10, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and nobody in dallas' starting lineup got less than 250k.
yes, that includes erick dampier.
fuck you, that's my name!! you know why, mister? 'cause you drove a hyundai to get here tonight, I drove a eighty thousand dollar bmw. that's my name!!
by MarketMaker on Jul 10, 2008 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls have a cap hold
because of Deng and Gordon equal to three (3) times last year’s starting salaries—or aproximately $30 million. that’s why Pax wants to resolve their situations as fast as posible. Then he will be able to do as you suggest.
by hlac on Jul 10, 2008 3:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jesse07, finally...
... someone is talking sense on this board. This summer could be our last chance to make a move before the value of our trading assets (i.e Noce, Tyrus, whoever!) falls further. I am sick of waiting for our “future all-stars” to “develop”... it ain’t gonna happen.
We need to make a move now otherwise another generation of players (i.e the Pax draft picks/trades) will be wasted for nothing. Look at what the Sixers have done in the last couple of years. This group of players is NOT GOOD ENOUGH to contend, we need another piece… while we can still get it.
The No 1 Chi -Town sports fan in Europe!
by Vangelis on Jul 11, 2008 5:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just remember, players on big, long contracts gain trade value as each year comes off the contract
Hughes, Nocioni, and Hinrich will all be that much more movable a year from now. This is far from the last chance to make a move.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jul 11, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Sixers have followed the Bulls plan of rebuilding to the T
Right down to overpaying for an aging star.
And, the Bulls will have 2 very tradeable contracts next year with Noce and Kirk. They may be overpaid now, but their values will be at their max next season. Hughes will be an expiring deal. This is in no way the last summer to make a move. Look at what’s available. Making a panic trade is stupid.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 11, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
especially with Noc. Ideally, he should see a drastic reduction in minutes next year, making his contract even worse, despite shaving a year off of it.
And not trading Kirk either means he’ll be a 2 (which nobody would trade for him as), or a backup point. I dunno, it seems like perception would really relegate him to a overpaid backup. Sort of how it’s become conventional wisdom to treat Ben Gordon like a bench player just because of the Bulls silly ‘microwave’ plan for him. Plus I really think Kirk will have a bad year if it’s spent in ‘competition’ with Rose (one he can’t win).
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 11, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Kirk is going to be our starting 2.
Obviously it’s just speculation, but I don’t think the Bulls want to pair up Rose with a defensively deficient 2 guard.
And my opinion of Noce is that he might get less minutes, but will be more productive as the team improves. Role players can only look as good as their team success will take them. He’s the kind of player who you can throw on any team and he’ll play the same way, which could be considered a good thing.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 11, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I think there's a difference between the "better off the bench" perception
that Gordon has been stuck with and the perception that a team has two potential starters with one just “stuck” behind the other on the depth chart. I don’t think anyone looks at the Bulls and thinks BG is a quality starter who is stuck behind someone better, (1) because he’s not stuck behind someone better and (2) because this idea that he’s ideally suited as a 6th man has just stuck. Noc has been effective as a starter in the past, can be looked at as sitting behind Deng (or playing out of position because of Deng) who is just a better player, and also has that Argentinian “whatever works for the team” perceived attitude going for him. I think Kirk, even if he ends up just backing up Rose, would have the same thing going – he has even more of a history of starting.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Jul 11, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right that the Sixers have done some amazing rebuilding in a short time,
but where exactly has it gotten them? Obviously, we don’t know exactly how good they’ll be now with EB, but this is pretty close to the best they’ll get. They’re going to have to break the bank further to resign Iguodala, and then next year they’ll have to deal with the Andre Miller contract, so they’re not going to be picking up much in the way of FA. Miller is in his 30s, Brand is probably on the downstroke of his prime, Dalembert is as good as he’ll ever get. Their upside is contained solely in Iguodala and Louis Williams. Are they championship caliber right now? Will they get there in the next couple years? I don’t think so. Good for them for becoming relevant again, but I don’t think they are a good blueprint. They’ve put all their chips on the table, and I don’t think their cards are good enough to drag the pot.
by arjoseph on Jul 11, 2008 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They've also got Thaddeus Young
They’ll need to acquire a good shooter at some point, but they’ve got a hell of a core right now. They don’t seem to be in a position where they’ll need to add much more than midlevel FA’s over the next couple years to fill out their roster.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jul 13, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sign & trade question
Could the Bulls sign & trade Deng for JSmith? Not sure how the rules would work between sign & trades and extention guys. If Atlanta didn’t want to pay 12+ for a player and thought they might lose Smith to another team, losing Smith and atleast retaining Deng would sort of save face.
by Jesse07 on Jul 10, 2008 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Deng?
not so sure, hopefully he’ll sign, but I’d unload Tyrus and the trade exception for Smith..
At best, Tyrus was projected to average 17ppg, Smith is young an already there…
by exult463 on Jul 10, 2008 5:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
woops....all we need is to overpay
a tempermental player, who fights with players, coaches, and fans…lovely..i
d love to see the three headed monster of Tyrus-Noah-Smith around D Rose
by Jbonelli on Jul 10, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember Dennis Rodman
every beast can be tamed? Isn’t VDN supposely the next coming of Phil Jackson?
by exult463 on Jul 10, 2008 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dennis rodman? if you can find Michael Jodan 2.0
and Scottie Pippen 2.0 to show him all the rings they have, and shut him up…yah go for ir…
by Jbonelli on Jul 10, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With that front court
no one can hit a 15 footer, replace Tyrus with Deng. Smith’s an upgrade over Tyrus.
by exult463 on Jul 10, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus Smith can already hit the 3
something Tyrus has yet to prove. Deng has a mid range game, Smith is everything Tyrus supposely will be, plus he can already hit the 3. He’s just a head case, I’d suppose…
Not the worst thing in the world, we need some fights in the locker room. Noah brought more excitement, now let him and Josh Smith battle to see who is the queen bee,, oops. King Bee, while boring Deng and Hinrich have expanded roles as peace makers and are forced to act like leaders.
Actually Smith is probably not a head case, but needs a change because the kid was straight out of HS, and ATL has been a bad team with bad experiences.
by exult463 on Jul 10, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
he can shoot the 3, no doubt. Can’t hit it, and that doesn’t seem to deter him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 10, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, at least he has the guts to try
by exult463 on Jul 10, 2008 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, who cares if he likes to shoot the 3
He can’t hit it, and the fact that he likes to shoot them has more fantasy value than any realistic one. Josh Smith is AK 47 with more highlight reel plays. He’s not worth anything more than 12 million dollars a year given his constant sourpuss attitude.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 10, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we can get Jamal Crawford back
He isn’t afraid to try, either.
by JeffD on Jul 10, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if only Paxson had those BALLS, right?
exult, you’re bordering on self-parody.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 10, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Antoine Walker is probably available.
He’d be more efficient at hoisting those bricks, too; I don’t think anyone in history was better at chucking the low-percentage longball.
by arjoseph on Jul 11, 2008 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry Huges calling....
That’s my job!
by gman2849 on Jul 14, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the hawks would love for him to stop shooting the 3....
don’t give that argument – he can get hit the 3. He takes far, far too many 3 point attempts and he doesn’t make them at a good clip.
Hell if the Bulls let him Tyrus take those shots for 3-4 years, he could probably hit some of them. But we DON’T want him shooting them.
by swede2287 on Jul 12, 2008 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yah, he's got talent...but he's still a headcase..
a headcase who you will have to max out, whom you have no idea what he will do once he is sitting there w/ all his new money
by Jbonelli on Jul 10, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How good is Tayshaun?
Maybe the stat sheet doesn’t say it all, but compare his numbers to Deng’s last season (and Deng was playing hurt at times):
Prince
13.2 ppg
4.9 rpg
.5 stl
.4 blk
Deng
17.0 ppg
6.3 rpg
.9 stl
.46 blk
they shot the same fg %. prince shoots the 3, but if he’s contributing 4 pts less per game how much does it matter? i know he’s a “stopper”, but Deng is more than adequate at defense and i’ll take the other things he contributes anytime. plus he’s 5 years younger than prince.
by M 80 on Jul 10, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Living in Atlanta
and watchig all Hawks games last year, I can tell you this… Josh Smith is like Tyrus Thomas (with extended playing time).... all the athletic talent in the world, but no bball IQ (yet); so I’m not quite sure I see this as an upgrade. Having said that, I love the idea of getting Prince, but I’m not sure they really can do that without overpaying, Dumars has said everyone is open to trade, but he wants an all-star back.
by carlirvington on Jul 10, 2008 9:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
come on now bulls fans!!
Seriously, this trade proposal stuff is so stupid. Why would anyone trade Luol for Tayshaun? That matchup is not even close. Tayshaun has reached his ceiling, and he doesn’t exactly turn heads.
Tyrus, on the other hand, has all the potential to become similar to Josh Smith. With the way that Tyrus has reestablished his commitment, I think with some work on the perimeter he will be better than Josh Smith. When Tyrus master’s that jump shot people will not be able to stay in front of him. Josh Smith doesn’t have the length, wingspan, defense, mental head, or first-step like Tyrus.
Ask any Gm in the league who they take in a package with Deng-Thomas or a package with Prince- Smith to build around D-Rose….
by PTBALLER1523 on Jul 11, 2008 12:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Package Deal
The idea is to have pay Smith, get Prince, & retain the backcourt of Kirk, Thabo, BG, & Rose.
I am sour on the mix of players that the Bulls have. This might change if Rose is a top 3 point gaurd & shows himself capable of hitting a big shot, but who on this Bulls team will take over down the stretch. Smith isn’t afraid to shoot it and he is young and confident. Also, beside Tayshaun’s doing little things on the court don’t forget about his post of game down the stretch.
by Jesse07 on Jul 11, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if Smith's willing to take the "big shot", do you really want him to?
BG’s always been willing to take the big shot. More than that, he can actually, you know, put the ball through the hoop on a regular basis. Having someone else take the ball to start the play, as well as not having Ben Wallace set a high screen, should return BG to his previous effectiveness at hitting those “big shots.” You’re delusional if you’ve read through the numerous posts on this fanpost and still don’t see that Josh Smith isn’t an answer to anything for this roster. He would just be another big question.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jul 11, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The issue with your proposal,
as with many on this site, are the number of dominoes that need to be set-up prior to the deals to follow.
I believe Paxson to the fullest when he says his priority is to sign Deng and Gordon. I think that’s all he’s focused on and nothing else is on the horizon for them. With their roster filled out the way it is, there’s no reason to pursue any lower-level FAs and they don’t have the cap space to offer any upper-level FAs any deals.
If Jersey is pursuing strongly Nocioni as reported, I’d rather land Kristic in the $4 – 5mil per range w/ sign and trade (w/ filler) than counting on a combination of other events lining up.
by kingj41 on Jul 11, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think all I've heard from Pax
is that he wants to “deal with” Gordon’s and Deng’s contracts first. I’m not sure I’ve heard him say he wants to sign them before he does anything else.
I have’nt always paid that close of attention to this, but I do know the last time I heard him talk about it (last night on CTL) he said “deal with” not “sign.”
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jul 11, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's splitting hairs
He may not end up signing them at all if things go poorly, but that still provides the team with ,more certainty in the financial and depth-chart areas going forward. Obviously he can move on and do something else to work on the roster if he reaches a “definitely not going to sign” impasse with Lu and BG.
Unless you’re suggesting that Pax is intentionally choosing that phrase because he doesn’t expect to actually sign them – in which case I think you’re just reading way too much into what Pax says this early in the summer.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Jul 11, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pax has learned to choose his words very carefully.
He doesn’t want to say he’s going to sign them when, for whatever reason, he might not.
If he says he wants to sign them, but then doesn’t, it will get reported as “just another in a long string of organizational failures, blah, blah, blah.”
By saying he wants to “deal with them,” it’s a way of answering the question without really saying anything.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jul 11, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he doesn't sign them, it's going to be reported as another org failure
no matter how he spoke of it beforehand, unless he gets a damn good sign and trade out of it.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
by wjb1492 on Jul 11, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have to agree with you on this one
I read his comments as the same way. By saying “deal with”, that keeps his options open as to whatever he wants to do with them. That could mean sign to long term, sign to QO, sign & trade…just about any scenario.
Pax, you sneaky lil devil you! :-)
by NormVanBeer on Jul 11, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dominoes
Sure the one time Pax tried to play the ‘game’. He was left with Ben Wallace & no KG, but Im sick of the waiting game.
by Jesse07 on Jul 11, 2008 10:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm tired of the 'wait' as well
but which of the ‘assets’ are valuable to bring you back something worthwhile after last season’s performances? I like Josh Smith as a player, but he’s not the answer. He’s an athletic 4 with no post offense. I know you mentioned T. Prince as a possible post solution, but I don’t see Detroit jumping on that deal.
Also with the roster built as is, and I’m not a pessimist, but I don’t want to give up draft picks via trades because it seems that those may be lottery selections. No matter how weak a draft is, there’s potential to land a decent player on a more than decent contract. And I’d much rather the team make a rookie scale mistake than a FA big money mistake.
by kingj41 on Jul 11, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you said,
“but I would rather shoot for the moon” are you seriously shooting for the moon by getting Prince? Especially by giving up TT? What moon are you shooting at? The one I know is pretty far, and looks like you’ll miss.
"I'm a Bulls fan," -Barack Obama
by Goostafer on Jul 11, 2008 12:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tayshawn Prince
Is a good player, I thiink the Bulls should deffiently look at him since Detroit is rebuilding. Mabye trade Deng for him?
by knickknack7450 on Jul 11, 2008 2:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They're not exactly rebuilding and he's definitely not worth giving up Deng for
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jul 11, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prince
Prince I feel needs stars around him to be an important player. He is a great fourth option on a championship contender. He plays terrific defense and is a very smart player, but is not the best scorer. Deng right now has a lot more potential of being a star and right now the bulls are a team full of young role players that are still learning the league. So, I think trading for Prince at this point is meaningless and my advice is to keep Deng.
by FAN of the BULLS on Jul 11, 2008 11:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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