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Hollinger and I Agree Yet Again: Keep Hinrich

Tiny by JSlakov on

I'm not sure if I've brought it up here, but I've been thinking since we got Rose that we should keep Hinrich and play him as shooting guard and someone who can share ball handling duties to give Rose breaks.  Apparently John Hollinger agrees:

Scooter (Chicago): Please tell me the Bulls will work out a sign and trade with Ben Gordon? If not, what is the Bulls next move?

SportsNation John Hollinger: (3:18 PM ET ) Sign-and-trade of Gordon, with Hinrich moving tot he 2, is unquestionably the most logical move for Chicago. They just need to find the right team for him, which is the hard part -- he doesn't fit easily for a lot of teams.

 

Hinrich has shown he can guard two guards and might do so better when he doesn't have to expend energy bringing the ball up.  Also if Rose is the distributor everyone thinks he is, I've always thought he could thrive as mostly a spot up shooter on offense.  I'd still prefer someone who can create a double team to get him open looks but why not see how this works, unless a great trade offer comes along?

I still don't think Gordon should be our starting shooting guard long term, especially if he wants 10 million a year still.  Does anyone think Gordon is as valuable as Antawn Jamison?  If we can get someone to take him in a sign and trade for something valuable (David Lee, perhaps?) then do so, otherwise I expect he'll sign the one year qualifying offer and he can be our sixth man and maybe if he succeeds we can get something for him around the trading deadline.

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yeah, well

I don’t agree with Hollinger, and it’s a pretty awful idea to plan to have a terrible offense. I wish he would’ve offered more in terms of explanation, it’s not as if Hinrich is reflected favorably in his metrics.

Every day this impasse goes on, give Gordon another million! To the max!

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 2:42 PM CDT   0 recs

well

if Rose is really as good as Deron Williams or Chris Paul, then those two have proven you don’t need a stud SG starting alongside them, just someone ideally who can defend and shoot the three and Hinrich I think should be able to do that especially with less required of him in being an offensive catalyst.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 2:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think the Hornets or Jazz would mind

having Gordon instead of Mo Peterson and Ronnie Brewer, despite the defensive drop-off. Though Rose will hopefully be a better defender than either Paul or Williams anyway.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 3:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

sure

but they’ve already got Boozer and West. We’re gonna need that 50 million to find an equivalent for Rose.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So, wouldn't trading Hinrich free up more than that?

No one is saying Gordon is getting 10 million. If all accounts are that he doesn’t have that much value to other teams (which is what Chad Ford said), the Bulls can offer him something in the 7-9 range.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yea

but again you’re assuming that we can trade Hinrich. The way I look at it is we have Hinrich signed to his deal. Obviously if a great trades comes along take it, but I’d rather keep Hinrich then trade him for something stupid and sign Gordon to a long deal.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

plus

I have a feeling Gordon would rather take the one year deal than sign for less money. I know for a fact that in 2006 he was looking to get a max deal.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Do you have a link to this "fact" or are you just blinking along with NBAO?

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jul 1, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

haha

well I didn’t want to get into it because I know people are going to think I’m making things up but my friend from high school was Gordon’s personal assistant in 2006. I’m from Connecticut and he went to UConn. Obviously I have no link to back this up so take it however you will. Nonetheless, he has talked about making big money before as can be seen by him turning down 50 million.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll take it for what it is

Does your friend have any insight into if this past season has changed is self evaluation?

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jul 1, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

haha

I’m not sure, I haven’t talked to him in a while and he doesn’t work for Ben anymore. I guess he didn’t like doing his laundry and driving him to games anymore and wanted to get a real job even though he was making good money and got to hang out with an NBA player all day. Silly if you ask me.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok you are full of crap

And I am going to call you on it. Imran John is Ben Gordon’s personal assistant.

See links here:

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=50439&src=150

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/gordon_feature_070918.html

(see 10:05am for the bit Imran)

Imran John went to Mt. Vernon High with Ben Gordon and not to a Connecticut High School with you.

Nice try!

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jul 1, 2008 5:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Notice he said UConn

not a CT high school. And 2006.

If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.

by wjb1492 on Jul 1, 2008 5:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Notice

if you read the article it says Irman has been his assistant for a year and half as the posting of the article being 2007.

How can Imran go to High School with JSlak in Connecticut and Mt Vernon?

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jul 1, 2008 5:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

UConn = University of Connecticut

University – it comes after high school.

Look, I don’t know JSlak and I’m not vouching for his credibility. But your logic for claiming he’s full of crap also doesn’t work. That’s what I was pointing out.

If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.

by wjb1492 on Jul 1, 2008 5:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Before

you talk to me like a two year old show me in the post where JSlav clearly says he went to Uconn.

JSlav says that he is from Connecticutt and “He” (Imran or Ben not quite sure but not even relevant to the point) went to UConn.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jul 1, 2008 5:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well

I believe Matt was his assistant for his second year at least so that would be 2005. Also its very possible he had multiple assistants, this guy sounds like a personal trainer/workout partner type, which definitely wouldn’t be something Matt would do.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 5:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jeez...

What does it matter to you Rankdog?

People know other people, sometimes those people have jobs in sports, why is this so hard to beleive?

I am nothing special, but I have lived in the Chicago area my whole life, so I have known over the years a handful of Chicago Bears, Bulls, White Sox and people who work for them or the orginizations.

Usually these people don’t divulge a lot of info about their team. But sometimes they do share things here and there. I’ve heard some things that I won’t repeat from some Chicago Athletes.

I have no reason to not beleive JSlakov. I would just assume give somebody I don’t know the benifit of the doubt then call them a liar.

by kidronmusic on Jul 2, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As much as some of us around here respect Hollinger's work

he’s offered some opinions of the Bulls that don’t mesh with our own. When Skiles was fired, I remember him championing lots of Noce and Deng sharing time at the forward spots. He stuck with his numbers that Rose was the third best prospect in the draft. Now, he thinks the Bulls should go with Hinrich over Gordon.

Personally, I just don’t see how the defensive combo of Rose/Hinrich would be able to prevent enough points to make up for the difference in offense when compared to Rose/Gordon. If one has to go, Hinrich will be the one much easier to move for the next year. Sign and trades are always difficult to complete and especially to get value in return. Letting Gordon play on the QO leaves him with a no trade clause for the season, and in all likelihood, the Bulls watching him go for nothing next year. Gordon would be worth that 5/$50 he turned down last year.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jul 1, 2008 2:44 PM CDT   0 recs

I'm not so sure

I don’t know why people assume Hinrich is easier to trade than Gordon. The truth is neither of them may be easy to move but Gordon has averaged 20 ppg and Hinrich did have a terrible year last year. I’d think you could get more for Gordon assuming he agrees to a sign and trade.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 2:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Again, the problem is actually completing a sign and trade

They’re not too easy to work out and rarely give back good value. While I’m all for keeping Hinrich for part of the season to help rebuild his trade value, the fact that he’s under contract and no longer BYC makes him much, much easier to trade.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jul 1, 2008 2:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ok

even if we can’t trade Gordon, I’d rather see him go than keep him around for a long, big money deal like the one he turned down. This team is now being built around Derrick Rose and I just don’t see Gordon fitting, certainly not in the long term vying for a championship. I think Hinrich fits better and if we need to trade him eventually, he’s at least already a year into his deal as opposed to Gordon just starting a new one.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 2:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Think they we ill mesh..

in AAU ball, Rose and Gordon (Indian gordon, not ben), ran really really well..and if they say Gordy’s a better version of Ben (which I doubt), they should be real exciting to watch this season

:::crosses fingers::::

by Belize on Jul 1, 2008 3:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"Indian" Gordon

As an Indian-American, I’d be fascinated to find out that there was an Indian version of Ben Gordon running around. (Or rather, falling around).

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on Jul 1, 2008 4:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lol

::imagining Ben falling for the hundredth time all by himself::

by gman2849 on Jul 1, 2008 7:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

heh

Have you never heard of the Great Khali…...?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RTgRQc9y3FA

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....

by piccolomair on Jul 1, 2008 11:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Umm...no

And I’m sorry that I clicked through that link and am now aware.

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on Jul 2, 2008 12:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lol

My bad..i meant indiana =s

by Belize on Jul 2, 2008 12:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Weren't you saying how all Rose could do was drive-and-dish?

No, that was YaoPau. Anyway

Rose = penetrator
Deng = Slasher
Thomas = dunker
Noah = Tipper/rebounder

They need a shooter and Gordon is FAR, FAR better than Hinrich at that.

by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 3:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if only

basketball was so simple.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If only

Deng was a slasher.

by smash! on Jul 1, 2008 3:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Slasher = cutter?

Deng’s not good at that?

Slasher is probably more someone who penetrates and then looks to finish, huh? Used the wrong word. Damn.

I thought of that as soon as I typed it. Deng is very good (except for this past year when he was injured so much) at cutting towards the basket.

by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 3:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lol

I love Deng. and I really hope he develops into becoming a finisher at the basket.

by gman2849 on Jul 1, 2008 7:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think

Hughes is gonna surpise us this year

by Belize on Jul 1, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

by not being on

the bench at the start of the season

by gman2849 on Jul 1, 2008 7:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not to

sound condescending but I don’t think it can be broken down that simply. we do need a shooter but I think historically shooters who can play defense are more valuable than those who can’t

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If they're of equal ability as shooters, than I'd rather have the one who can play D

Hinrich isn’t anywhere near Gordon’s quality as a shooter

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jul 1, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well

he hasnt played with someone like Rose. Gordon definitely it better at creating his own shot but Hinrich when left open I think can knock it down with the best of them.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gordon has played w/ anyone like Rose either.

That’s quite a stretch about Hinrich based on his past performances, but if he can improve that much, why can’t Gordon?

by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 3:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Because Gordon already can knock it down...

...w/ the best of them. Why hope for one to do it when you already have that ability in the other?

by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 3:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

because

I don’t think Gordon will ever be capable of guarding shooting guards and I believe that Hinrich has shown that he can at least for stretches. We can always throw Thabo in to guard someone at crunch time if need be.

On the other hand, Hinrich is a capable shooter, in college he was one of the best and he’s definitely had plenty of good shooting stretches in the pros. Put him in an offense that gets him more looks and where he doesnt have the ball with the shot clock winding down and his percentages will go up I believe.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't buy that Kirk is a good shooter

Every year he has shot over 35% from the 3 point line, yet his highest FG% was 45%. Gordon isn’t going to blow you away with his numbers either, but they are far better than Kirk’s. Maybe that’s the offense, but after 5 years in the league, I just don’t think it’s in his game to be a consistent shooter from anywhere but outside.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well

thats where I imagine he’d be shooting from. A lot of his bad shots were off screen and rolls a few steps in front of the three point line as the clock was winding down. I’ll be happy to never see those shots again.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hinrich hasn't been

a particularly good 3-point shooter even though he’s been primarily taking open spot up 3-point shots.

Last season Hinrich shot 35% from beyond the arc with 90% of his makes assisted. Gordon shot 40.9% with only 71% of his makes assisted. Only Nash shot a higher% on a lower assisted%. Hinrich is unlikely to shoot any better with Rose because his role isn’t changing. If Gordon had 90% of 3PM assisted, his 3P% would several point higher. Gordon isn’t just a little better, he’s a lot better.

by Scotter on Jul 1, 2008 4:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Holy crap

Nash 47% with more than half of them pretty much pull up 3’s? Trade Machine here we go!

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 4:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Man, Cleveland has just effed up w/ LBJ.

They’ve had five years now, and if they’ve gotten better, it’s only because he’s gotten better.

by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 4:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It is rather sad.

Or it would be if it weren’t the Cavs. It would be one thing if they weren’t trying to improve the team makeup, but to keep trying and keep failing so miserably…

If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.

by wjb1492 on Jul 1, 2008 5:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hinrich would fill in so well with the spurs

Its funny…my mom used to watch Bulls games with me as a kid, and this season I tried to show her a game…after 5 minutes of watching Hinrich running our offense..she said “Yall boring to watch now”

not that it means anything…just sayin’

by Belize on Jul 1, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

funny...

when i would watch bulls games with my mom, she used to comment on how handsome john paxson was. no joke.

by leeac on Jul 1, 2008 6:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Plus Kirk's

Contract is front loaded so that even juding the Kirk of last season (a career worst year I’d ahve to think) his last yr value of 8.25M or somewhere along those lines is justifiable for the defense and smarts he has on the court).....

So yeah Kirk’s no tjust the 1 trick pony about to have a BYC slapped on him, he’s infintely more tradable.

by majoyenrac on Jul 2, 2008 12:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Trading a 20 ppg scorer for someone who is a hustle player?

ahhhhhh my head is going to explode.

The only way we trade Ben Gordon is if we get a bigger 2 guard. David Lee is a role player, I’m sorry but I don’t think shoring up the center position is more important that having a team that can score over 90 points per game.

How does Hollinger have a liking for Hinrich? His PER has always been lower than Gordon’s, and is not even a good enough shooter to be a starting 2. Thabo hasn’t shown he can be a consistent scorer to warrant this trade, either.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 2:47 PM CDT   0 recs

Lee

is also cheap and effective. We’re building for the future here, that was clear the minute we drafted Rose. At some point we’re going to need to get a scorer to go along with Rose but should it really be a six foot two shooting guard for the next five years?

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 2:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lee is due for an extension this year

So, trading him doesn’t make a whole lot of sense unless you plan on signing him to probably the same amount of money as you’d give Gordon. I’d much rather just extend the QO to Gordon and effectively rent him for a year, serving as an adequate target for Rose to pass to.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 2:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well

this was hinging on the fact that he’d take less than Gordon.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 2:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't be so sure about that, though

There are plenty of teams that are in love with Lee, and he could get more money (perhaps not a long term deal) elsewhere. I don’t know though, I don’t follow the Knicks so I’m unfamiliar with what Lee’s contract talks are like so far.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well

we could also trade him again come the deadline if he has so much value. the point is to get something valuable for Gordon.

by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 3:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not to pick on you...

because I think people are jumping down your throat here and I agree with some of your pts, but where do you see Lee fitting into the rotation? (If we traded Gordon I would think we’d need to get a big shooter in return…)

by smash! on Jul 1, 2008 3:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The best young center rotation in the league

Noah/Lee. Talk about grit! And they’re Florida guys!

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lee's not a center

he’s barely can hold his own at PF defensively. He makes up for it with his rebounding. And like you mentioned, grit :)

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 3:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Get S. Jack

in our SF role, and wed be a defensive giant

by Belize on Jul 1, 2008 3:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He was on my fantasy team last season

And was listed as a PF/C, so I’ll believe your take, I’ve watched him only against the Bulls.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He gets a lot of shun in the NBA

but w/out him, Golden state would not have beaten Dallas, San Antonion wouldn’t have gotten that ring and Ron Artest would have gotten his ass whopped..lol

What u think? Deng for jack? worst case scenario?

by Belize on Jul 1, 2008 3:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What the hell?

Steven Jackson? He’s a gunner, not what you need on a team that is rebuilding. He was great in SA because everyone else was too timid to make plays besides him. He’s fine in GS because all they do is shoot 3’s anyways, and he’s a mismatch at SF. Deng is younger, and just a better player.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 4:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pax would never let that dood near his precious team.

And I would agree with him on this one.

by smash! on Jul 1, 2008 4:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you say GRIT ? If D'Antoni wants to change the Knick culture of

slackers, maybe he’ll take Noc off our hands. (Please pretty please)

Anyone want Jerome James or Quentin Richardson?

by KentuckyBullsFan on Jul 2, 2008 10:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs