Hollinger and I Agree Yet Again: Keep Hinrich
by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 2:32 PM CDT
Email
PrintI'm not sure if I've brought it up here, but I've been thinking since we got Rose that we should keep Hinrich and play him as shooting guard and someone who can share ball handling duties to give Rose breaks. Apparently John Hollinger agrees:
Scooter (Chicago): Please tell me the Bulls will work out a sign and trade with Ben Gordon? If not, what is the Bulls next move?John Hollinger: (3:18 PM ET ) Sign-and-trade of Gordon, with Hinrich moving tot he 2, is unquestionably the most logical move for Chicago. They just need to find the right team for him, which is the hard part -- he doesn't fit easily for a lot of teams.
Hinrich has shown he can guard two guards and might do so better when he doesn't have to expend energy bringing the ball up. Also if Rose is the distributor everyone thinks he is, I've always thought he could thrive as mostly a spot up shooter on offense. I'd still prefer someone who can create a double team to get him open looks but why not see how this works, unless a great trade offer comes along?
I still don't think Gordon should be our starting shooting guard long term, especially if he wants 10 million a year still. Does anyone think Gordon is as valuable as Antawn Jamison? If we can get someone to take him in a sign and trade for something valuable (David Lee, perhaps?) then do so, otherwise I expect he'll sign the one year qualifying offer and he can be our sixth man and maybe if he succeeds we can get something for him around the trading deadline.
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
132 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
yeah, well
I don’t agree with Hollinger, and it’s a pretty awful idea to plan to have a terrible offense. I wish he would’ve offered more in terms of explanation, it’s not as if Hinrich is reflected favorably in his metrics.
Every day this impasse goes on, give Gordon another million! To the max!
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 2:42 PM CDT reply actions
well
if Rose is really as good as Deron Williams or Chris Paul, then those two have proven you don’t need a stud SG starting alongside them, just someone ideally who can defend and shoot the three and Hinrich I think should be able to do that especially with less required of him in being an offensive catalyst.
I don't think the Hornets or Jazz would mind
having Gordon instead of Mo Peterson and Ronnie Brewer, despite the defensive drop-off. Though Rose will hopefully be a better defender than either Paul or Williams anyway.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
sure
but they’ve already got Boozer and West. We’re gonna need that 50 million to find an equivalent for Rose.
So, wouldn't trading Hinrich free up more than that?
No one is saying Gordon is getting 10 million. If all accounts are that he doesn’t have that much value to other teams (which is what Chad Ford said), the Bulls can offer him something in the 7-9 range.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
yea
but again you’re assuming that we can trade Hinrich. The way I look at it is we have Hinrich signed to his deal. Obviously if a great trades comes along take it, but I’d rather keep Hinrich then trade him for something stupid and sign Gordon to a long deal.
plus
I have a feeling Gordon would rather take the one year deal than sign for less money. I know for a fact that in 2006 he was looking to get a max deal.
Do you have a link to this "fact" or are you just blinking along with NBAO?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
haha
well I didn’t want to get into it because I know people are going to think I’m making things up but my friend from high school was Gordon’s personal assistant in 2006. I’m from Connecticut and he went to UConn. Obviously I have no link to back this up so take it however you will. Nonetheless, he has talked about making big money before as can be seen by him turning down 50 million.
I'll take it for what it is
Does your friend have any insight into if this past season has changed is self evaluation?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
haha
I’m not sure, I haven’t talked to him in a while and he doesn’t work for Ben anymore. I guess he didn’t like doing his laundry and driving him to games anymore and wanted to get a real job even though he was making good money and got to hang out with an NBA player all day. Silly if you ask me.
Ok you are full of crap
And I am going to call you on it. Imran John is Ben Gordon’s personal assistant.
See links here:
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=50439&src=150
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/gordon_feature_070918.html
(see 10:05am for the bit Imran)
Imran John went to Mt. Vernon High with Ben Gordon and not to a Connecticut High School with you.
Nice try!
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
Notice he said UConn
not a CT high school. And 2006.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
Notice
if you read the article it says Irman has been his assistant for a year and half as the posting of the article being 2007.
How can Imran go to High School with JSlak in Connecticut and Mt Vernon?
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
UConn = University of Connecticut
University – it comes after high school.
Look, I don’t know JSlak and I’m not vouching for his credibility. But your logic for claiming he’s full of crap also doesn’t work. That’s what I was pointing out.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
Before
you talk to me like a two year old show me in the post where JSlav clearly says he went to Uconn.
JSlav says that he is from Connecticutt and “He” (Imran or Ben not quite sure but not even relevant to the point) went to UConn.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
well
I believe Matt was his assistant for his second year at least so that would be 2005. Also its very possible he had multiple assistants, this guy sounds like a personal trainer/workout partner type, which definitely wouldn’t be something Matt would do.
Jeez...
What does it matter to you Rankdog?
People know other people, sometimes those people have jobs in sports, why is this so hard to beleive?
I am nothing special, but I have lived in the Chicago area my whole life, so I have known over the years a handful of Chicago Bears, Bulls, White Sox and people who work for them or the orginizations.
Usually these people don’t divulge a lot of info about their team. But sometimes they do share things here and there. I’ve heard some things that I won’t repeat from some Chicago Athletes.
I have no reason to not beleive JSlakov. I would just assume give somebody I don’t know the benifit of the doubt then call them a liar.
As much as some of us around here respect Hollinger's work
he’s offered some opinions of the Bulls that don’t mesh with our own. When Skiles was fired, I remember him championing lots of Noce and Deng sharing time at the forward spots. He stuck with his numbers that Rose was the third best prospect in the draft. Now, he thinks the Bulls should go with Hinrich over Gordon.
Personally, I just don’t see how the defensive combo of Rose/Hinrich would be able to prevent enough points to make up for the difference in offense when compared to Rose/Gordon. If one has to go, Hinrich will be the one much easier to move for the next year. Sign and trades are always difficult to complete and especially to get value in return. Letting Gordon play on the QO leaves him with a no trade clause for the season, and in all likelihood, the Bulls watching him go for nothing next year. Gordon would be worth that 5/$50 he turned down last year.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I'm not so sure
I don’t know why people assume Hinrich is easier to trade than Gordon. The truth is neither of them may be easy to move but Gordon has averaged 20 ppg and Hinrich did have a terrible year last year. I’d think you could get more for Gordon assuming he agrees to a sign and trade.
Again, the problem is actually completing a sign and trade
They’re not too easy to work out and rarely give back good value. While I’m all for keeping Hinrich for part of the season to help rebuild his trade value, the fact that he’s under contract and no longer BYC makes him much, much easier to trade.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
ok
even if we can’t trade Gordon, I’d rather see him go than keep him around for a long, big money deal like the one he turned down. This team is now being built around Derrick Rose and I just don’t see Gordon fitting, certainly not in the long term vying for a championship. I think Hinrich fits better and if we need to trade him eventually, he’s at least already a year into his deal as opposed to Gordon just starting a new one.
Think they we ill mesh..
in AAU ball, Rose and Gordon (Indian gordon, not ben), ran really really well..and if they say Gordy’s a better version of Ben (which I doubt), they should be real exciting to watch this season
:::crosses fingers::::
Weren't you saying how all Rose could do was drive-and-dish?
No, that was YaoPau. Anyway
Rose = penetrator
Deng = Slasher
Thomas = dunker
Noah = Tipper/rebounder
They need a shooter and Gordon is FAR, FAR better than Hinrich at that.
Slasher = cutter?
Deng’s not good at that?
Slasher is probably more someone who penetrates and then looks to finish, huh? Used the wrong word. Damn.
I thought of that as soon as I typed it. Deng is very good (except for this past year when he was injured so much) at cutting towards the basket.
not to
sound condescending but I don’t think it can be broken down that simply. we do need a shooter but I think historically shooters who can play defense are more valuable than those who can’t
If they're of equal ability as shooters, than I'd rather have the one who can play D
Hinrich isn’t anywhere near Gordon’s quality as a shooter
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
well
he hasnt played with someone like Rose. Gordon definitely it better at creating his own shot but Hinrich when left open I think can knock it down with the best of them.
Gordon has played w/ anyone like Rose either.
That’s quite a stretch about Hinrich based on his past performances, but if he can improve that much, why can’t Gordon?
Because Gordon already can knock it down...
...w/ the best of them. Why hope for one to do it when you already have that ability in the other?
because
I don’t think Gordon will ever be capable of guarding shooting guards and I believe that Hinrich has shown that he can at least for stretches. We can always throw Thabo in to guard someone at crunch time if need be.
On the other hand, Hinrich is a capable shooter, in college he was one of the best and he’s definitely had plenty of good shooting stretches in the pros. Put him in an offense that gets him more looks and where he doesnt have the ball with the shot clock winding down and his percentages will go up I believe.
I don't buy that Kirk is a good shooter
Every year he has shot over 35% from the 3 point line, yet his highest FG% was 45%. Gordon isn’t going to blow you away with his numbers either, but they are far better than Kirk’s. Maybe that’s the offense, but after 5 years in the league, I just don’t think it’s in his game to be a consistent shooter from anywhere but outside.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
well
thats where I imagine he’d be shooting from. A lot of his bad shots were off screen and rolls a few steps in front of the three point line as the clock was winding down. I’ll be happy to never see those shots again.
Hinrich hasn't been
a particularly good 3-point shooter even though he’s been primarily taking open spot up 3-point shots.
Last season Hinrich shot 35% from beyond the arc with 90% of his makes assisted. Gordon shot 40.9% with only 71% of his makes assisted. Only Nash shot a higher% on a lower assisted%. Hinrich is unlikely to shoot any better with Rose because his role isn’t changing. If Gordon had 90% of 3PM assisted, his 3P% would several point higher. Gordon isn’t just a little better, he’s a lot better.
Holy crap
Nash 47% with more than half of them pretty much pull up 3’s? Trade Machine here we go!
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Man, Cleveland has just effed up w/ LBJ.
They’ve had five years now, and if they’ve gotten better, it’s only because he’s gotten better.
It is rather sad.
Or it would be if it weren’t the Cavs. It would be one thing if they weren’t trying to improve the team makeup, but to keep trying and keep failing so miserably…
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
Hinrich would fill in so well with the spurs
Its funny…my mom used to watch Bulls games with me as a kid, and this season I tried to show her a game…after 5 minutes of watching Hinrich running our offense..she said “Yall boring to watch now”
not that it means anything…just sayin’
Plus Kirk's
Contract is front loaded so that even juding the Kirk of last season (a career worst year I’d ahve to think) his last yr value of 8.25M or somewhere along those lines is justifiable for the defense and smarts he has on the court).....
So yeah Kirk’s no tjust the 1 trick pony about to have a BYC slapped on him, he’s infintely more tradable.
Trading a 20 ppg scorer for someone who is a hustle player?
ahhhhhh my head is going to explode.
The only way we trade Ben Gordon is if we get a bigger 2 guard. David Lee is a role player, I’m sorry but I don’t think shoring up the center position is more important that having a team that can score over 90 points per game.
How does Hollinger have a liking for Hinrich? His PER has always been lower than Gordon’s, and is not even a good enough shooter to be a starting 2. Thabo hasn’t shown he can be a consistent scorer to warrant this trade, either.
Lee
is also cheap and effective. We’re building for the future here, that was clear the minute we drafted Rose. At some point we’re going to need to get a scorer to go along with Rose but should it really be a six foot two shooting guard for the next five years?
Lee is due for an extension this year
So, trading him doesn’t make a whole lot of sense unless you plan on signing him to probably the same amount of money as you’d give Gordon. I’d much rather just extend the QO to Gordon and effectively rent him for a year, serving as an adequate target for Rose to pass to.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
well
this was hinging on the fact that he’d take less than Gordon.
Don't be so sure about that, though
There are plenty of teams that are in love with Lee, and he could get more money (perhaps not a long term deal) elsewhere. I don’t know though, I don’t follow the Knicks so I’m unfamiliar with what Lee’s contract talks are like so far.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
well
we could also trade him again come the deadline if he has so much value. the point is to get something valuable for Gordon.
Not to pick on you...
because I think people are jumping down your throat here and I agree with some of your pts, but where do you see Lee fitting into the rotation? (If we traded Gordon I would think we’d need to get a big shooter in return…)
The best young center rotation in the league
Noah/Lee. Talk about grit! And they’re Florida guys!
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Lee's not a center
he’s barely can hold his own at PF defensively. He makes up for it with his rebounding. And like you mentioned, grit :)
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
He was on my fantasy team last season
And was listed as a PF/C, so I’ll believe your take, I’ve watched him only against the Bulls.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
He gets a lot of shun in the NBA
but w/out him, Golden state would not have beaten Dallas, San Antonion wouldn’t have gotten that ring and Ron Artest would have gotten his ass whopped..lol
What u think? Deng for jack? worst case scenario?
Did you say GRIT ? If D'Antoni wants to change the Knick culture of
slackers, maybe he’ll take Noc off our hands. (Please pretty please)
Anyone want Jerome James or Quentin Richardson?
by KentuckyBullsFan on Jul 2, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I know it's totally irrelevant.
Almost as irrelevant as calling for the Bulls to get a scrawny 6’9” guy for our center…then blaming the miscue on my fantasy team.
u know if we take Lee
Knicks fans are gonna hate us more and more right? He’s like their only hope for 09’
Let get him!
We can sign Ben to a qualifying offer
then trade him midseason if we want to, yes? I’m all for keeping Hinrich, but between Ben’s trade value will only go up the more he plays with Rose.
Not with out Gordon's consent
and he’d have to give up his Bird rights (i.e. what allows a players own team to go over the cap to re-sign him) if he was traded.
This is the major reason why the qualifying offer is a worst-case scenario.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I forgot about that
but if the Bulls want to trade him midseason it probably means they aren’t going to resign him anyway so he wouldn’t be using those Bird rights anyway.
they could to sign/trade him after the season
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
My thoughts exactly.
Hinrich doesn’t shoot well enough to replace Gordon. He has better defense, but we really need at least one of our guards to have a shooting touch and right now Gordon is the clear winner. Keep Thabo around for the defensive side and I think we have a pretty good shot with Rose/Gordon/Thabo
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Correction...
(um, jokingly…) we need at least one of the players to have an outside shooting touch.
In our case
it is about the same. :) Outside of Gordon, who has a smooth shot from the outside?
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Exactly. Deng is close, but... no, he's not really close.
If the Bulls had a center who could shoot threes like Okur or a SF who had one of the best three-point shooting seasons ever like Peja, keeping Gordon would not be needed. This team can afford to have a shooter-only player because of what all the other guys do. This team needs to have a shooter because of what all the other guys can’t do.
And
am I the only one excited to think that with Rose on the floor Gordon won’t have to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game where he has often been criticized for being overpowered, tripping, getting stuffed, etc. Gordon has traditionally been the guy to try to do something at the end of the game for us, but with Rose on the floor Gordon can spot up at the three point line and Rose can be the one to handle the ball, drive to the basket, and either go in hard or kick it out to Gordon. I am feeling pretty optimistic about Rose/Gordon at the end of the game. Both will be legit threats and Gordon won’t have to handle the ball minimizing some problems he’s shown in previous years.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
But but
The “give Gordon the ball for 20 seconds” play was my favorite!
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
you forgot the best part
sending out Ben Wallace to set the screen.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes I can't believe last season really happened.
It was basically one long, bad dream.
We can no longer take Hollinger seriously, he advocated the Knicks spending money on Duhon
david nYC: can duhon really run the d’antoni offense? i’ve read D’antoni wanted him with the Suns and is wanted now for the Knicks. It makes no sense, you’d think an offensive dud would make the offense crash.SportsNation John Hollinger: (3:39 PM ET ) Unfortunately the Knicks can’t sign Steve Nash or Chris Paul, and they’re trying to have cap space for 2010, so they’re focusing on guys who might be had for a two-year deal for a chunk of the midlevel and can distribute the ball. It’s not a long list this summer, which is why Duhon is so high on their shopping list.
I’m seriously beginning to doubt that Hollinger has ever watched the Bulls play. Duhon’s specialty of dribbling out the shot clock hardly qualifies as distributing the ball.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Hollinger hits big, but misses big too
He rated the Cavs as the trade deadline’s biggest winners this past season (Delonte, Wally World, Joe Smith, Ben Wallace), when it was obvious to everyone on BaB that Danny Ferry had just blown all his remaining cap space for four guys that weren’t good enough to help LeBron win a title.
The cap space had nothing to do with it
from that standpoint it was a wash for Cleveland. They have a bunch of expiring money this year before and after the trade, and Wallace and Hughes had the same contract length.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
i think you could argue
the Bulls and Cavs got what they wanted out of that trade. The cavs got Delonte West, who was basically there best guard and Wally, who can hit shots when James draws a double. The bulls got Gooden. Both teams got rid of two players they hated. And Seattle… thanks for helping out.
If you look at who else is available for less than the MLE and would take a 2-year deal,
there aren’t going to be a lot of names on the list. I found the idea of Duhon starting for D’Antoni kind of comical as well, but if that’s the criteria the Knicks are using then who else is Hollinger going to suggest?
I think he was more trying to explain why Du even comes up in connection with the Knicks than make an argument that he’ll be a great fit.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
At first I thought Hollinger looked retarded..
..now after this post, I know he’s more than that…he’s special. DuhDutduhDuh special. Hinrich at the 2? Kirk is 6’3’! Run Ben or Hughes at the 2…wat are trying to do? Small ball offense.
I think John’s a secretive Knicks fan and we should all kick him in the nuts if we ever see him in person…hey, im just sayin’
Slakov does have a point
When you look at PG dominated teams, all of them have a rotation of 1 solid defensive player with some range (Brewer, Mo Pete, Bell) and 1 guard who can flat out score (Korver, Barbosa, Pargo).
My thought is, what happens when your defensive minded SG who can shoot (Kirk) can’t shoot that well and isn’t that big, and your other option is also solid on D but shoots even worse (Thabo)? Wouldn’t it make sense to then start your offensive minded, but defensively weak player (BG)?
If Thabo could crack his potential like Brewer has alongside Deron (they both are basically the same player ), I wouldn’t have any qualms about sitting Ben or trading him. If that can’t happen, I don’t want to hand the keys over to our offense to Kirk.
well
the keys are firmly in Derrick Rose’s grip. Hinrich would just be riding shotgun.
I meant to say "for shooting guards"
That’s what their rotation looked like. But, obviously you’re right in pointing out that both teams have those players who can still stretch the floor out for the PG to get into the lane. Deng isn’t a 3 point shooter, so having Gordon is totally necessary, which is why I advocate signing and starting him.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
It sucks.
I don’t think anyone wants to overpay him. I’m not sure anyone sees him as some great all-around player that will dominate the game. But really, who else is there to score and shoot the ball on a consistent basis? Hinrich isn’t horrible at it, but he’s really not even close to offensively talented as Gordon. if this were the 90’s slow-it-down ball, maybe trying to out defend the opponent would be the way to go. But it’s not.
Anyway, I don’t want for the Bulls to overpay Gordon; I just think it’s necessary. Every team has a bad contract or two. Overpay Gordon, get rid of Nocioni and Hinrich in the next year and Hughes the following year. The Bulls will be down to one “bad contract,” and that ain’t the end of the world.
Thabo at Summer League?
Is Thabo going to be at Summer League (I assume so). I’m interested to see him and Rose play together. I’m still not dismissing him as a good partner to Rose. Obviously summer league doesn’t translate to the regular season (see Redick, JJ last year), but I feel like Rose will help unlock some of that potential.
‘‘I kind of got used to wearing No. 23, but I know it’s not going to happen in Chicago,’’ he said. ‘‘But that’s a small price to pay for playing in my hometown.
by bullsfanhongkong on Jul 1, 2008 4:28 PM CDT reply actions
I wish, but even though he was at the UC yesterday to welcome Rose...
Pax didn’t list his name when reciting his summer league roster. Noah, Rose, TT, Gray and Nichols were the Bulls he named. (He could have mistakenly left him off, but I doubt it).
Matt hit it on the head with his first comment
It’s kind of preposterous for us all to be bashing Hollinger for his opinion when he didn’t provide detail for the rationale behind it. I disagree with him, but I have so much respect for his opinion that I wouldn’t berate him for it unless I understood why he prefers to keep Hinrich over Gordon.
The limitations of the internet chats….
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
well in the meantime one can still bash JSlakov's opinion
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
bash away
but remember it in Year 3 of Gordon’s 50 million dollar contract and we’re frantically trying to unload it.
by JSlakov on Jul 1, 2008 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Regardless of what it does to the offense this year,
I think the Bulls need to do what the market dictates as far as who can bring back the most and what is happening with BG’s negotiations. With a rookie coach and such a young team, realistically I’m expecting to make the playoffs at best, not to be a serious contender this year. If it happens, great, but I’m not holding my breath. I really have no idea what BG will settle for, or even if he honestly wants to stay with the Bulls, but at least we’ll find out pretty soon. But, if he’s not the long term solution at the 2 anyway, and a sign and trade is available, might as well take it. If not S&T is out there, it’s a moot point.
And lest anyone think this is coming out of my desire to see Kirk remain a Bull, it’s not. It’s no secret I was a Kirk fan before a Bulls fan, and I can cheer for him wherever he goes. I’d rather he get traded than have my BaB time ruined by Hinrich bashing, which will almost certainly grow worse if they actually do decided not to start Rose this season or keep Kirk and trade BG.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
I'll always have all of them, thanks to league pass. ;)
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
re: prospective Hinrich-bashing
if they do either of the things you mentioned…you ain’t kiddin :)
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
though it'll be in the vein of Noc-bashing
where we’re not really bashing Noc but how he’s deployed. and paid.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
The motivation behind it doesn't change the fact that it royally sucks if you like the guy.
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
I'm like you. I'll cheer for
him no matter what team he plays for. From what I’ve heard from Pax since last Thurs. and read in different articles it is not a given that Kirk will be traded at all. If he’s traded I’ll deal with it if he’s not others will have to deal with it.
I don't wish Kirk ill will
But I do think it would be potentially awesome for him to play in Denver and become drinking buddies with Eduardo Najera.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
This situation has existed for the last 3 years
And wasn’t hidden, if we removed our endeaving man-love (or woman-love) from these players.
Kirk and Ben don’t work as starters. Now everyone seems to knows!
Unload as much of this expensive weight as possible, given the opportunity! Paxs.
question?
if BG continues to be the 6th man for the bulls, will a $10m/yr contract be justified if he continues to put up 20ppg to go along with his ‘suspect’ defense?
people continue to say that the loss of BG will directly result in less scoring for the Bulls as a team, however, in reality, if BG leaves, his 15 shots per game will be taken by other players. i think the real concern is who the hell is going to take those extra 15 shots per game? thomas? noah? gooden? hinrich? yuck. i wouldn’t mind seeing deng take those extra shots, but according to some people, deng gets ‘fatigued’ when he plays more than 35 minutes a game (fatigued??). so i actually think the BG-love stems more from fear that there is nobody else on this team who can score, rather than a sense that BG is worth the money. i don’t think any other team will offer BG the 10-12m per year range he is looking for, because on their team, BG would be the 2nd or 3rd option, rather than the 1st option and “go-to” he is on the bulls. if BG was smart, he would have signed the 5/50 last year. on our team, he’s worth $10m, but on the open market, i don’t think he’s worth that. and i don’t think the bulls should be offering him a contract higher than the 5/50 out of ‘fear’ that we have nobody else that can score (besides deng)...
now i’m rambling. i just think it’s a shame that BG’s value to this team is enhanced because of the lack of scoring ability of his teammates. i just don’t see a $10-12m/yr long term investment in an undersized shooting guard with noted deficiencies is the answer.
oh sh*t, this was a hinrich thread?
Well, presumably y'all are going to want Rose taking quite a few of those shots.
So (using your 15 shots), say Rose shoots 11 times and the other 4 starters shoot once more per game. 15 shots! Or turn Larry loose and he’ll happily take 30.
Whether they make them is an entirely different question. ;)
If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.
Haven't any of you thought about just how good (in terms of up-tempo style)
a Hinrich and Rose back court can be? I think a Hinrich and Rose backcourt can definitely be something special! Each player can run an offense at any given time, and each player is a “gym rat”. We could totally wear down our opponents every game by our speed on both Offense and Defense if they start next to each other. I think opposing guards would get frustrated and tired having to deal with two quick/agile guards. As a side note, don’t you all remember that we won 47 and 49 games with Duhon starting next to Kirk many times? How much better will the Bulls be now with a Kirk and Rose backcourt. I think Calipari said that the bulls could run a 2 PG type up-tempo offense in his ESPN 1000 interview a couple weeks back.
Regarding a Rose and Gordon backcourt: yes, it can also be effective in certain situations. However, wasn’t the point of having Rose that he would control the ball?? Ben Gordon is great on offense, and can knock down open shots when in that type of role, but most of the time Ben is making moves to get his shot (he needs the ball in his hands). I’ve watched too many Bulls games where he controls the ball in his hand without passing (especially at the end of games this past year).
My last thing I want to mention, which I had considered making a separate post for but didn’t have time today, is a player that the Bulls should “realistically” go after. Andris Biedrins! With time to adjust and the right coaching, I think a starting 5 of Rose, Hinrich, Deng, Thomas, and Biedrins could run any team ever assembled out of the gym. If Golden State loses Baron Davis and doesn’t get Gilbert Arenas, then why not sign and trade BG for a sign and trade of Biedrins. It fits in my eyes.
Sorry if i’m all over with this post… i haven’t had much sleep the past two days :(
Davis is gone
And GS was always going to sign Biedrins. He’s young and actually plays defense.
Ben doesn’t always need the ball in his hand to score. He’s run off screens tons of times to score. And not every offensive possession has to consist of Rose controlling the ball for 18 seconds. Ball movement is still an integral part of PG dominated teams, and they fail miserably without someone who doesn’t have some semblance of being able to create their own shot. Gordon’s not great at it, but he’s the best on the team.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 1, 2008 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Although Dave Kaplan (CTL host)
swears that Derrick Rose can dunk with his elbows….
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
To quote John Calipari
“His chin hits the rim. No, you don’t understand, his chin hits the rim.”
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Ah, I stand corrected.
Is that what they mean when they say, ‘give him the ball at the elbow’?... :-)
"I'm a Bulls fan," -Barack Obama
Hinrich Fans Thank You
That and I pretty much agree…
The good feelings with Thabo back when he first came into the league was that he’d be able to add to an already formidable perimeter defense that was led by Hinrich. Now, we have Rose and Hinrich starting, imagine what that defense could look like with Thabo coming off the bench. They’d just outhustle most perimeter threats…
Besides, if we lose BG, there are worse things than seeing Kirk, Deng and Noc taking more open jumpers. Kirk’s numbers went to hell last year, but he’s shown himself to be a consistent shooter if need be. Or even take the ball from Rose to play with 2 PGs. Last year’s an anomaly, I think we will see a heckuva better Hinrich this year.
Keep Kirk and if BG stays reasonable (about Noc’s pay or slightly higher), I think our backcourt is pretty set, ESPECIALLY if we shut our eyes really tight and chant “if we ignore Hughes, he’ll go away”
looks like it might happen...
with baron about to sign with the clippers, that would take away their need for a point. so we might as well keep him(kirk).
Keep Hinrich?
Hinrich is a good player but he’s not the answer to our 2 guard spot. His demeanor of him moping around makes ME depressed. He’s been in Chicago and has started mainly because of his 3-ball, his handles, and Pax’s man-crush. And based on Hughes salary I don’t see anyone besides BG starting in front of him. Say what you want but I’m not a Hughes hater. With league pass I was able to watch a ton of Cav’s games because I’m a big Lebron fan. I think Hughes can be very effective in transition(good alley-oop passer)- his handle and playmaking is underrated. His shot might be suspect but so is Kirk’s. But Hughes salary is huge and since it comes off the books in 2010 it’s kind of a wash. We’re obviously in rebuilding mode so ROSE has to start(he’s joining the NBA not being deployed in iraq) but he’ll need a playmaker next to him and I think Gordon(who requires a double team frequently) and Hughes will be more effective than Rose/Hinrich. Bottom line is we have too many guards and lack depth at center. Gray can be effective but unless he looses 30+lbs he can’t be in an up-tempo offense. Camby for Hinrich/Gray would make me happy. We have too many guards someone will have to go.
1.Rose/Hughes-—-—-Thabo can play here
2.Gordon/Thabo-—-—Thabo can play here
3.Deng/Noce --—-——Thabo can play here
4.Tyrus/Gooden
5.Noah/Camby
IMO
for the record, Thorpe disagrees
from today’s chat
Ben (Chicago): If, as a GM, you had to choose between Gordon and Hinrich to pair in the backcourt with Derrick Rose, which one would you choose?David Thorpe: (12:02 PM ET ) I’d lean to Gordon. Though I do think we’ll see Kirk bounce back.
don't troll.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
heh
I didn’t even catch that.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Dwight Howard picks a strange time to ask for more fourth quarter shots
- Spike Lee texts to thank the coach that cut Jeremy Lin before seeing him play
- LeBron threatened to beat up a heckler. You gotta problem with that, tough guy?
- Jason Whitlock apologizes for his unfunny Jeremy Lin comment on Twitter
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
