IN THE YEAR 2010... Free agent list, trade idea's.
Wow, I was already of the opinion that the Bulls should be working to clear cap space for 2010, because, as has been widely reported, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and Amare are all set to be free agents that year...
I don't think anybody outside of NY or Cleveland has a shot at Lebron, and I see Wade staying in Miami, but I figured, maybe Bosh or Amare would love to come and play with Derrick Rose.
But then I stumbled accross this article from hoopsworld... and it really opened my eyes... there is a ton of value on the market, and there is no reason that we shouldn't be aggressive getting ourselves in a position to have a huge summer that year. It really feels like the kind of market where we couldn't go wrong. We could miss on the 3 or 4 best players, and still land a superstar.
We're probably stuck with Hughes anyway, so hey, at least he is an expiring deal that year. And really, as much fun as it is to pick on Hughes and hate him in our posts (I have done it as much as anyone) It also isn't crazy to think that he will be better next season than he was last. He came halfway through the season last year to a team with selfish play, HORRIBLE coaching, and no communication.
This year, he has the benifit of a full offseason, better coaching (No way VDN is as bad as Boylan) and hopefully, a more unselfish team. Larry Hughes plays best as a slasher, and he cuts fairly well without the ball. The trouble is, he got lazy and started hoisting ill-advised jump shots a few years ago, and nobody has been able to talk him out of it. Maybe Rose finding him slashing to the hole, and VDN explaining his value as a slasher will help. It can't hurt.
Then, I would say trade for Camby, right now. The Nuggets are said to be willing to get rid of Camby. They are also said to be after Kirk. We are the most shallow at center right now. And Camby has another contract coming off the books for 2010. Give them Kirk for Camby. I like Camby in a even time split with Noah. Shot blocking and help defense will always have a place with me.
Maybe then... Nocioni for Al Harrington? Harrington wants out, and John Paxon likes him, or at least he did a few years ago (We were supposed to trade the draft pick that became Deng for Harrington) and I think, he could fit here. He is a bit of a defensive liability, but he can play both forward spots, and is a shooter and a scorer. He is a good fit for an uptempo pick and roll offense, which is what we're supposed to run next year. We would be losing a little defense in this trade, but gaining a more consistant shooter and scorer. Plus, he can post up a bit when playing against 3's. Also, much more importantly, it's another contract coming off the books before 2010.
Between Hughes, Camby, and Harrington, we would have $31,332,113.00 Coming off the books. We would have to resign Tyrus that year, but still, That might be enough to sign two max players if we structure the deals right. Or one max player and two stars.
We would be choosing a few from this list... in no particular order... Amare Stoudamire, LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Mike Redd, Tyson Chandler, Joe Johnson, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili, Tracey McGrady, Shaquille O'Neal, Brad Miller, Stephen Jackson, Jermaine O'Neal, Mike Miller, Rip Hamilton... and on and on, click the Hoopsworld link, it's fantastic.
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Oh yeah...
I think it’s also worth mentioning that these trades could also make us a better team right now.
Rose/Thabo
Gordon/Hughes
Deng/Harrington
Gooden/Tyrus
Noah/Camby
I would be pretty excited to watch that team. 10 man rotation here we come. No need to use our exception this year.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's also too many players
I think we’ve learned that a minutes and rotation fiasco would ensue with so many guys needing minutes on that roster. That said, Gooden, Harrington, etc. could be flipped for hot garbage that doesn’t need to play. (assuming they expire before 2010, naturally)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um...
I suppose, but who would suffer the most? I didn’t touch the position that Tyrus plays best, so this doesn’t hurt him. This allows Rose to start, which I know your in favor of, and it clears away a backcourt player to help with that Logjam. I don’t think it’s crazy to have 2 decent centers on the team. Noah would still get plenty of time.
Harrington might complain a bit, but then again, I think it could help him to have an established role on a team that fit his style. Even if that meant he played a little less each game.
All of these players are good, but I don’t think any of them deserve huge entitlement minutes.
I just always have a hard time with the concept of trading good players for garbage players. But if that was neccesary, then yes, we could do that.
Somebody call Pax, tell him I figured out “the plan”
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Harrington's only useful as a 4.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah...
I disagree. The best thing about Harrington is his ability to score. And he does that best against smaller opponents. The worst thing about Harrington is he doesn’t block shots or get rebounds.
Sounds like a back-up 3 to me. Good for offense off the bench, a timely expiring contract, and not much else.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harrington is far from perfect.
By the way, I wasn’t crazy about Harrington. That’s why there is a question mark after I originally suggested it. But I couldn’t think of a better player that I thought we could trade Nocioni for that had a better contract than he did and fit our team at all.
Do you have someone else in mind?
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have to think about it
but I’d prefer someone who isn’t a pain in the ass like Harrington will surely be if he got a dozen minutes a night.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay.
I accept, I would say it should be a frontcourt player that makes about the same as Nocioni that we could feasibly trade for, who also has a contract ending 2010 or sooner.
I would suppose we could just try to trade for garbage, but then we are a bit thin at SF unless we move Thabo there for 15-20min every night. Because I think we all agree that TT should play the 4, and not the three… since he is at his best around the basket.
Any idea’s?
by kidronmusic on Jul 2, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's exactly what you do
move Thabo to the 3, frees up some of that ‘guard glut’ I’ve been hearing so much about
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure...
I like Thabo for the 3, in a defensive, point forward type of role.
Again, like a poor man’s Scottie, except with less Migranes.
But he is also our best defending guard, especially if we trade Captain Kirk. I don’t think it’s fair to assume Rose will be a defensive rock star from day one. So I assume Thabo will get plenty of minutes in that guard rotation either way.
So, I would still like a back-up 3. Which shouldn’t be too hard. The NBA is littered with back-up athletic wing players. It’s just that I want him to be decent and have a short term contract.
by kidronmusic on Jul 3, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he can do both
there aren’t that many minutes to be had behind Deng.
That comparison to Pippen is an insult to poor men everywhere.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Let’s trade Nocioni for Thabo, straight up.
Oh wait… damn.
Back to trading Nocioni for hot garbage then…
by kidronmusic on Jul 3, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
If you don’t make these moves you still have the same problem of too many players… it’s just that instead of Kirk and Nocioni, I propose Camby and Al Harrington.
Harrington=Nocioni with a better contract.
And we could use a 2nd Center instead of a 5th Guard at this point.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you even
list Camby ahead of Noah on the depth chart?
by kingj41 on Jul 1, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t.
Rose/Thabo
Gordon/Hughes
Deng/Harrington
Gooden/Tyrus
Noah/Camby
But I guess it would be up for discussion.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
W/ Gordon and Deng on "reasonable" contracts...
...w/ just those ten, that’s a payroll north of $70 million.
by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
It would be a high payroll untill those deals expire.
I remember an article last year that said the Bulls were one of the (or the)most profitable team in the NBA.
So we could afford this, if it was part of a plan that Jerry beleived in.
And I’m not convinced that Gordon will be on a reasonable contract. Unless you mean the Qualifying offer.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See... we just have differing ideas of value.
You go against statistical analysis. I try to go w/ it.
And, unless you’re ready for a team that scores less than 90 pts/gm, I don’t see how you would not want to Gordon back on the team. It’s one thing to accept that he overvalues himself, it’s a completely other thing to undervalue him. There’s not one person on this team that can replace Gordon’s scoring, and especially not nearly as efficiently. (and that includes playing Harrington at the SF position—the only consistent, positive impact he’s had for his teams have come while he’s been at PF)
by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bullshit...
I didn’t say I didn’t want Gordon on the team. I think Gordon has a lot of value for his ability to shoot. Especially since he has better range than Deng, who is our only other consistant scorer. And paired with Rose, Gordon could get a lot of open jumpers.
I just don’t think Gordon wants to play in a crowded backcourt, I don’t think Pax wants to invest too heavy in a guard who scores 20 a game and doesn’t do much(anything?) else. He was offered a reasonable deal last offseason and turned it down. Now, there isn’t much money available in free agency, so maybe he doesn’t get a great offer somewhere else. In which case, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him take the QO and be a UFA next year.
This post was clearly motivated by contract situations. But I still don’t see how I went against statisical analysis. In fact, my opinions of Harrington came from Hollinger.
And okay, so Harrington plays better at the 4… But if you read the Hollinger report, he is clearly a tweener. Can’t he still be used at the 3 to post up small forwards? Especially since he is a pretty good shot from the outside? I don’t see anything that tells me he can’t. With Thabo playing some at the three when we were matched up against a particularly quick small forward, it wouldn’t bother me much.
And if the next 20 posts are going to be “Well, your post sucks then because Harrington would cut into Tyrus Thomas’s minutes at the 4…” then please keep in mind that I’m suggesting we trade Nocioni, who seems to get a bunch of minutes at the 4 already.
How insulting of you to make one intelligent comment about the salary, and then summize that I go against you and statistical analysis.
Who do the stats tell you to trade Nocioni for?
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds good and all...
But what are we gonna do with Duhon?? :)
by Pax_4_Prez on Jul 1, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let him sign with the Knicks
or whoever else wants to waste money on a third string caliber back up PG
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jul 1, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duhon is a highly coveted free agent...
He is traveling to many cities this week checking out the club scenes and deciding who he wants to play for next year…
That just shows the demand for a point guard… (ahem, Kirk, your getting traded)
by kidronmusic on Jul 2, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's really hard to believe that's the case
I can’t fathom that someone other than Scott Skiles and local bar owners covets Duhon.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jul 2, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They promised to start him...
The Knicks have offered a two-year, roughly $6.5 million contract plus the promise of a starting job to free agent Chris Duhon, league sources said. Duhon met with Magic officials Wednesday and is expected to make his decision Thursday. Orlando is expected to offer similar financial numbers but already has a starting point guard in Jameer Nelson.
Duhon is weighing the promise of a starting job and the appeal of playing for Mike D’Antoni, or joining a team that reached the Eastern Conference semifinals last season.
by kidronmusic on Jul 3, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops...
That was all supposed to be in the shadow block…
It’s from this article on the trib site.
by kidronmusic on Jul 3, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, I've seen the articles
It’s just that I fail to understand why there’s so much interest in him, especially as a starter. A two year deal isn’t the worst thing, but Duhon really shouldn’t be getting much beyond the league minimum.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jul 3, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, well saying the only "reasonable" contract for him..
...is the QO at $6.5… Well, I misread you. I thought I saw somewhere you would only want him for a reasonable contract. So you’ll take him at an unreasonable amount? Otherwise, yeah, you’re saying he’s not worth more than $6.5 million. And I think that’s ridiculous.
And no, I’m not going to say Harrington can never play the 3. You said he sounds like the perfect back-up 3 and that’s factually incorrect. A back-up 4 that plays some 3? Sure. But that’s different than your above scenario. I wouldn’t mind trading for Harrington and slotting him at the back-up, back-up SF. I just don’t think it makes the team any better.
by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
GORDON I might have said somewhere that I would only want Gordon for a reasonable contract. But I didn’t say that I wouldn’t offer him a reasonable contract. My point above, was that, he already turned down 10 per year. So I would say he either over-value’s himself or he doesn’t want to be here. Which is why I’m not positive that he will be resigned. I think there is a chance he will take the QO.
Harrington I didn’t say perfect back-up 3… in fact I have a post above titled “
Harrington is far from perfect.”
But clearly, my thinking was that it makes the team better by giving us cap flexibility in a great free agent class. I do think that the new team with these trades could be better than without, but certainly not just cause of Harrington.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF?
I just thought about your post again…
Im not really adding any salary, I’m suggesting we trade for similar contracts on a shorter term…
What are considering reasonable contracts? With Deng and Gordon at 10 mil per year, we’re looking at 70 mil already for next year.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that was only ten.
There will be four or five other guys on the team making roughly $2-4 million. Hinrich+Noc for Camby/Harrington gains about $2 million. Anything over the luxury tax is dollar-for-dollar. One person estimates the luxury tax threshold at about $70 mil.
I wasn’t really saying it was negative, just pointing it out.
by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meant to add a link
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=819471
For the luxury tax estimation.
by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...
So it would cost us 4 mil next year, but shave off a lot more in future salary. I can live with that.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Reinsdorf can
if they are even the slightest bit into the luxury tax, they not only pay their share of the penalty but also miss out on the free bag of cablevision cash.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I fully admit
that it’s a real headscratcher.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 1, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my point.
It seems like it should be easy to eat, but w/ Reinsdorf, who knows? Pay some money and lose out on other only for a “chance” to do something in two years? Doesn’t sound Reinsdorfian to me.
But I really don’t know. Obviously.
by tyger1147 on Jul 1, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
I don’t see how it would add salary.
Hinrich 08-09 =10mil and 09-10 = 9.5
Camby 08-09 = 8mil and 09-10 = 7.65
Which saves us 3.85 Million, 2 million the first year.
Nocioni I believe is about 8 per year (hoopshype doesn’t have the info)
Harrington 08-09= 9.226 and 09-10= 10.026
Which costs us about 3.25 Million, 1.226 the first year.
Doesn’t that save us $784,000 the first year and $60,000 overall?
Do you have different info on Nocioni?
by kidronmusic on Jul 2, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think DraftExpress has taken the mantle
for salary data. Well actually it’s Sham, but DraftExpress has a nicer interface:
Hinrich: $10,250,000 $9,750,000
Camby: $11,250,000 $10,900,000
Nocioni: $8,000,000 $7,500,000
Harrington: $9,226,250 $10,026,875
So yeah, you were way off :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgot to add the link
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-player-salaries/
(yes I realize this needs to be on the main blogroll…but I need to give that a major overhaul)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah... I see the light...
Yeah, Camby makes more then…
But still, I think Hinrich for Camby… I would do that deal.
Maybe we could throw in a PeeOn or something to ease a little of the salary burden…
Wouldn’t you try to make that happen?
by kidronmusic on Jul 2, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll throw in Big Aaron Gray or Cedric Simmons
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on Jul 2, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody but Aaron Gray!
I’m opposed to trading Aaron Gray.
I want him to be a Bull for life.
by kidronmusic on Jul 3, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember the Toronto Game?
Big fella went off in that one…
And watch the screen he sets at the end of this video!
He should play decent minutes against every slow footed center we face all year…
Trouble is, stupid ass Boylan like to play him against small, agile, quick centers cause he thought it gave him the advantage… but clearly, Gray can’t keep up with the fast 5’s of our league.
by kidronmusic on Jul 3, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, doesn't Gray make every other 5 look fast?
Well, I guess as long as Magloire’s around, there’s someone Gray may be able to keep up with.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jul 3, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice...
Gray is S L O W.
It’s true, but he is one of my favorite lower tier NBA players. Every time he was in the game last year, I felt like he was making contributions.
Funny thing about youtube video’s…
If I knew nothing about Aaron Gray, and I saw that video, I would be thrilled to have this guy on the team. I think he looks way better than Asik, or half of the first round draftee’s from this year. Obviously Aaron Gray is not a fantastic NBA player, but he looks awesome in that vid, cause it never shows him running up court.
by kidronmusic on Jul 3, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Highly entertaining post, great article on hoopsworld.
But I’d love to see Thabo play more 3, sort of in the Scottie Pippen Point-Forward mold. Hate to pigeon-hole him into the 1.
Btw, you should cross Chandler off the list. He sure aint coming back to the Go!
by smash! on Jul 1, 2008 12:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I could see Thabo at the three...
And since we would still be deep at the guard positions, I wouldn’t mind that.
Especially since Harrington would be pretty bad defense against speedy small forwards. So, Thabo could definitely help for those match-ups.
And yeah, Chandler is gone forever, but I wanted to leave him on the list for the sake of discussion.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truthfully...
I like Dwade, Nobli and S. Jack filling in our squad…
by Belize on Jul 1, 2008 2:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
To each their own.
I don’t love S.Jack, but nothing wrong with Dwade or Ginobli.
I just want us to be in a position to pick and choose when the time comes.
by kidronmusic on Jul 1, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Boston Celtics extended an offer to Corey Maggette?
Don’t they have luxury tax up the wazoo? Curse these ring chasers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2008 10:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If they let Tony Allen and James Posey go
it’s basically a wash.
(this should be a separate fanshot, obviously)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think it warranted more discussion
But, hell at least my trade rumor had a link.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mine wasn't a rumor at the time...
Mine was an idea,
It’s probably been mentioned before, but I put this post together after looking at players with deals expiring 2010 and salaries that matched either Kirk or Nocioni. So I didn’t link to a specific article, cause I wasn’t taking it from a specific article.
And if that wasn’t a reference to me, then, nevermind.
by kidronmusic on Jul 2, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh
I love the smell of free agent season in the air
by Rose1 on Jul 2, 2008 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's true.
I’m an obsessed fan in the offseason…
It’s been like this for years, it’s some sort of incurable disease I think.
by kidronmusic on Jul 3, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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