Portland after Ben Gordon?
One player they reportedly may make a run at this summer is Chicago’s Ben Gordon, as they may feel like he is the perfect fit in their starting lineup next to Brandon Roy, where he can defend point guards but not have the burden of having to run a team.
I suppose in some ways he would make a better fit with Roy than Hinrich. Depends on how comfortable they are with Roy as the primary ballhandler.
Portland's capped out , so to acquire Gordon they either have to get him for the mid-level (uh, not likely) or work out a sign and trade. And no, Gordon can't be dealt on draft day.
Portland will likely be offering their cheaper 'parts' (Outlaw, Blake, Frye, Webster, Jack). and thus I think it's a pretty poor match. The Bulls don't need any more parts, though you never know how desperate they'd get for any return if the contract demands from Gordon are deemed too much.
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I'd rather see Gordon get 10-12 million per
than Hinrich moping around at the 2 full-time, plus averagish spare parts at forward. Jack as backup point would fine, but even the best scenario doesn’t seem to offset the cost of losing an even overpaid Gordon. Mr. Sonic seems like the kind of coach who would xerox the grand 6th man plan from the Bulls too.
Just for laughs I’d like to say I’d hate to see the Bulls trade Gordon for Aldridge. Paging Mortimer.
by hscs on
Jun 5, 2008 9:55 AM CDT
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heh
if Gordon is more coveted by the great Kevin Pritchard, than clearly it’s something we should all pay attention to.
The dropoff from Gordon to Hinrich as a two would be dramatic, and Rose isn’t going to that major of an offensive threat for a while either.
I think McMillan is a good coach, and wouldn’t resort to benching BG for the sake of trickery. Him and Roy would be pretty dynamic. Almost as good as him and Rose, heh.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 5, 2008 10:10 AM CDT
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A Portland post with no mention of Pryzbilla?
Blazers get
Gordon (QO 6mil)
Nocioni (8 mil)
Cash
Bulls get
Pryzbilla(6.3 mil)
Darius Miles(9 mil)
Blazers 2008 lottery pick(1.8 mil)
I’d love to deal with Portland to acquire the backup center we will need. The Blazers lottery pick becomes supporting scoring in the form of Chase Budinger, Chris Douglas-Roberts or whomever is the best player left on the board.
by NBA Observer on
Jun 5, 2008 10:28 AM CDT
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can't trade gordon on draft day
Maybe I need a catchy acronym? And you can’t use the QO as any salary figure. And…well I’m sure there’s more.
Interesting that ‘backup center’ is a need, but ‘best offensive player’ isn’t.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 5, 2008 10:40 AM CDT
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Eh, we aren't going anywhere as long as Gordon is our #1 scorer
If I read your salary cap articles correctly, we can trade Gordon for Pryzbilla, and our trade exception for Webster+Jack. Webster/Thabo seems like a perfect SG platoon, and I’d probably rather have Webster than Gordon if we’re bringing in Derrick Rose and keeping Hinrich.
PG Rose, Hinrich
SG Webster, Thabo, Hughes
SF Deng, Nocioni
PF Gooden, Tyrus
C Noah, Pryzbilla, Gray
Not a championship team, but a good holdover team till ‘10.
Mmm, how about… Gordon Only Tradeable After Draft Day. (Got A.D.D?)
by YaoPau on
Jun 5, 2008 11:00 AM CDT
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That's a lineup only Skiles could love
Although there’s a bit more rebounding in there than he prefers. Gordon isn’t the ideal shooting guard, but Webster/Thabo/Hughes would be pretty horrible, like worst in the NBA horrible. Plus Webster isn’t a guard.
by hscs on
Jun 5, 2008 11:09 AM CDT
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the better solution to not having Gordon as #1 scorer
is making him the #2 scorer.
Or more accurately, scoring option.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 5, 2008 11:17 AM CDT
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You're right
We really do need to let Larry Hughes loose.
"I tell you, Steve Blass, you pitch me inside, they never, never find that ball."
-Roberto Clemente
by cubbybear on
Jun 10, 2008 4:18 PM CDT
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My plan is to add rebounding
so all the poor jump shooters have a reason to keep shooting.
by NBA Observer on
Jun 5, 2008 11:25 AM CDT
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You can agree to a deal in principle
and select the players the other club wants. You just can’t get a Stern stamp of approval until after July 1.
by NBA Observer on
Jun 5, 2008 11:28 AM CDT
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or ever?
honestly, I don’t think it’s happened.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 5, 2008 12:41 PM CDT
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As crazy as it may sound....
...I think I read an article in the past month how Portland viewed Pryzbilla as basically untouchable due to Oden’s injury situation. Maybe TrueHoop, but I can’t remember now.
by BullsFanInSeattle on
Jun 5, 2008 10:41 AM CDT
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the BlazersEdgers came here
and said that too.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 5, 2008 11:18 AM CDT
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That's (this's?) where I saw it.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 5, 2008 11:19 AM CDT
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Oops
add me to the BE chorus I guess. I posted below before read the whole thread. Drat.
by BlazersOrBust on
Jun 5, 2008 6:38 PM CDT
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That's where the magic begins
Too bad Paxson isn’t an illusionist. The Blazers need help, lots of it. You have to sell them on moving Pryzbilla to get your second scoring threat at the guard position.
by NBA Observer on
Jun 5, 2008 11:30 AM CDT
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As a Blazers fan, I don't see this happening
For starters, until at least ‘09-’10, Pryz is almost as untouchable as Roy/Oden/LMA. It sounds like hyperbole, but it’s really not—Pryzbilla is our only legitimate big man. LMA is softer than Charmin, for now at least; Frye is what he is, a jump-shooting PF who’s not a threat to defend the rim or an intimidator in the paint; Raef is an expiring contract now, nothing more. If Oden isn’t the game-changing monster we Portland fans are expecting him to be (perish the thought!) then Portland minus Pryz equals screwed.
Second problem with this: neither Darius nor his albatross of a contract have anything to do with Portland anymore. We applied for and received a career-ending injury waver for him. He’s still gettin’ paid, but for cap purposes he’s a nonentity. Unless some sneaky dastardly team signs him to at least two ten-day contracts in the next two years…then he’s back with a vengeance.
by BlazersOrBust on
Jun 5, 2008 6:34 PM CDT
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ah
I knew the Blazers applied for that injury waiver, I didn’t know it was accepted.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 5, 2008 6:41 PM CDT
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Yup yup
Darius is long gone now, for a few months. Independent docs say Miles’ knee is kapoot.
So, Miles gets his money from insurance, his salary comes off the books, and adds to the big cap space coming up in 2009. That’s why a lot of fans have been more okay with Hinrich than otherwise; his salary just takes the place of Miles’ salary as far as the “cap space ‘09” plan goes. If the Blazers add a Gordon or Hinrich, they still have 15 million or so in cap space to fiddle with… or max deal money if they don’t trade for anyone.
That’s part of the dilemma in Blazer land now, but I don’t think we’ll get a max-deal type of guy even if we HAVE the ability to. Don’t think anyone like that would be available, and it’ll likely be way overpaying.
In 09, that’s when Steve Francis contract and Raef’s expires, and now we can consider Darius’ contract forever expired. Also, the team has team options on guys like Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake, so the cap space may be cut into by them, but their salaries are cheap (and most believe Tom Penn, the assistant GM and salary cap whiz, has some tricks to ensure they get the most cap space AND keep the role players under their team options).
Overall, Blazers management wants to keep flexibility, and they’d still have it if they got Gordon or Hinrich. Just quite a bit less of it, of course.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 5, 2008 6:50 PM CDT
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That DMiles deal sounds like leverage any team could hold it over the Blazers
in order to get them to accept a trade of let’s say…Martell for Hughes. Or something.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 5, 2008 6:45 PM CDT
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My bad
here’s the clarification:
“Miles has the opportunity to sign with another NBA team, although it is unclear if he still has the desire to play…if Miles does sign with another team and plays in 10 games in either of the next two seasons, his salary goes back on the Blazers’ books.”
There was a big hullabaloo on BlazersEdge when we waived Miles in April, cuz people were worried that a team like the Jazz or Hornets - hopefully WC rivals within a couple of years - would sign Miles to the veteran’s minimum and play him a few seconds in ten games just to stick his $9 mil back on our cap. Unlikely but theoretically possible, though I don’t think the league office would let it slide…they didn’t rig the 2007 lottery and push the Sonics out of the NW, giving us regional hegemony, just to let some schmucks in N.O. (or apparently Chicago) screw over our cap space plan!
by BlazersOrBust on
Jun 5, 2008 6:54 PM CDT
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Fortunately
Even if someone, like the Jazz, decides to be weiners and try to sign Miles to screw the Blazers over (and that team has to play Miles 10 games or so), the Blazers will likely not really be screwed because they can appeal everything to an arbitrator.
And because all of the docs and the NBA agreed that Miles’ knee is dead and gone (they said if he tried to play on it, he’d have to get it replaced in his 30s), they’re expected to side with the Blazers and not screw ‘em over. If Miles has a miraculous recovery after 2 years of not playing, then it couldn’t be foreseen.
I really do empathize that you’re stuck with Hughes, because I can’t stand him. I just don’t think he’s give-awayable until he’s a LHEC himself (Larry Hughes Expiring Contract). Better yet, how about LHED—Larry Hughes Expiring Deal.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 5, 2008 6:56 PM CDT
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You should know better.
Anyone is tradeable in the NBA. If you need proof look at Ben Wallace.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on
Jun 7, 2008 11:28 AM CDT
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True
But you got someone nearly as bad as Ben Wallace, who can maybe be moved for another Larry Hughes. Perhaps having Ben gone is an upgrade all by itself, but unless your packaging someone good with Larry Hughes, he’s not likely moveable until he is LHED.
Basically, the Bulls and Cavs just switched garbage. I think Larry Hughes could be traded, but for just more garbage unless a cheapie team wants to trade a decent player with a longer contract to save money, but that’s basically just a LHED move anyways.
I know, I know, anyone is tradeable. You just won’t be able to pawn Hughes off on anyone without taking back some crap yourself, or giving up someone pretty good (and even then, matching the contracts won’t be fun because Larry makes an insane amount).
I am glad the Bulls management admitted they made a mistake with Ben by trading him, but they might have to just eat the rest of Hughes deal. Does he expire sooner than Wallace?
The sad/annoying thing is, Hughes COULD be good—better than old man Wallace anyways. Hughes just doesn’t seem to care and can’t be made to not shoot. At least he doesn’t have to be played like it felt Ben Wallace did…
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 7, 2008 9:22 PM CDT
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Theoretically, Hughes is not the old dog who can't be taught
new tricks. Theoretically, he could learn to be a better player, unlearn all of his bad habits. For starters, he’d need to understand that he doesn’t play that well, and let’s face it, when you’re making the kind of money he’s making to play basketball, you probably aren’t that receptive to re-learning all of these things.
Wouldn’t that be something, though, if he could… ?
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
Jun 11, 2008 1:06 AM CDT
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It's basically all up to the coach.
A good coach identifies the system best suited for his personell and assigns different roles to different players taking advantage of each players strengths and minimizing the effect of their weeknesses.
In the case of LH you tell him to work his butt off on D (which does not entail gambling for steals), facilitate the offense, slash/drive to the basket aggressively and don’t take a ton of outside shots. If he isn’t able to/doesn’t want to do these things you bury him on the bench. Let him sit there with his 13 mil/year. The notion that you HAVE to play certain players a certain amount of minutes due to them making a certain amount of money really gets my goat. Players should be managed in a way that helps the team, period. Regardless of their contractual situation. This team is definitely deep enough to do that.
But you have to have a coach with the guts and the brains to do that. (Boylan obviosly had neither…)
by BAB-Bass on
Jun 11, 2008 7:44 AM CDT
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Two trade-scenario
According to Chad Ford, Dwyane Wade landing on the Bulls is at least a fathomable possibility. He suggests a trade of the #1, Joakim, Thabo, and Gooden for Wade. I have not checked salaries on this, but even if we were to also acquire Blount for contract purposes, we would be very thin in the big man department (there’s a Gray joke to be made here somewhere…)
Portland could offer the solution with 2006 Paxson spending spree runner up Joel Pryzbilla. With Oden getting ready to play, Portland may have a logjam at the 4 and 5. A signed and traded Gordon for Pryzbilla, Steve Blake, and their lottery pick seems reasonable, and would give us the fairly sick 8 man rotation of:
Kirk, Blake
Wade
Luol, Andres
Tyrus
Joel, 2008 Blazers #1 (Jordan, Love?)
Perhaps I’m overvaluing Gordon, but he could be such an asset to the Blazers alongside a big guard like Roy that I have to think they would have to at least consider it. We could always throw in Noc as long as we get back a backup-type 3. Because we’d be signing BG I believe there’s flexibility to make all sorts of trades work.
I heard Roy Hibbert's workout is schedule for next week.
by BigBenign on
Jun 5, 2008 10:47 AM CDT
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I wouldn't do
#1 for Wade straight up. Wade’s just too much of an injury risk.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 5, 2008 11:20 AM CDT
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Let's see...if I read this right,
Ford is saying the Bulls get DWade…and give up Rose, Beasely, Noah and Gooden. wtf? Why even bother to publish that?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 5, 2008 11:38 AM CDT
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You know if this happens Raef LaFrentz has to coming
Blazers get Gordon $8.5M (BYC), Nocioni ($8M)
Bulls get LaFrentz ($12.7M), Sergio Garcia ($873k), Rudy Fernandez ($870k), Travis Outlaw ($4M)
+ Chicago uses its trade exception.
Bulls
1- Rose, Garcia
2- Hinrich, Fernandez
3- Deng, Sefalosha
4- Gooden, Thomas
5- Noah, LaFrentz
Second step… Bulls trade Hinrich, Gooden, Thomas, 09#1 for Beasely, Blount, Banks
1- Rose, Garcia, Banks
2- Sefalosha,Fernandez
3- Deng
4- Beasley, Outlaw
5- Noah, Blount, LaFrentz
Heh, step 3, I wake up.
by Sports2 on
Jun 5, 2008 12:29 PM CDT
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No Tiger Woods?
Dude, Sergio Garcia is the golfer. Rodriguez is the Blazer.
by rb22 on
Jun 5, 2008 12:43 PM CDT
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I read recently that the Blazers are having a very hard time
convincing Fernandez to come to the U.S.
He was drafted as a 1st rounder, which makes him subject to the 1st round salary structure. He’s making a ton more money in europe. This is a perfect example of why the agents for the euro players are begging U.S. GMs to wait until the 2nd round (where there is no draft cap) to pick their players.
Much to the chagrin of Blazer fans, Fernandez may never make it to the U.S. I also think this partly explains the Blazers interest in BG.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 5, 2008 12:50 PM CDT
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Don't remember who....
Our main man Hollinger? Ahhh, couldn’t find the link. Anyway, whoever it was was talking about the difference in the rebuilding for the Pistons and the Spurs and mentioned how the weakening U.S. dollar, but keeping the same salary structure, is killing the Euro to NBA chance for mid- to low-first-rounders. He specifically mentioned Tiago Splitter making more money over the next few years than if he came to the U.S.
But yeah, that’s weird how it affects teams. As quick as the trend for good teams to “draft and stash” (did I make that up or read it somewhere?) players in Europe started, maybe it’s ending. I suppose the U.S. could bounce back. U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!
by tyger1147 on
Jun 5, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
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The dollar is definitely another issue that's pushing in the same direction.
I’m guessing it makes picks at the top of the 2nd round more desirable.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 5, 2008 1:23 PM CDT
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...and the bottom of the 1st round even less desirable,
as domestic would–be 2nd rounders are forced upward into the latter part of the 1st round.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 5, 2008 2:08 PM CDT
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FYI - Rudy's got a press conference scheduled Friday
He’s announcing that he’ll be in the NBA next year.
by Corvid on
Jun 5, 2008 2:24 PM CDT
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okaayy
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 5, 2008 2:31 PM CDT
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(btw, Rudy did announce for the NBA this morning.)
Don’t know what they’d want with Ben Gordon—and now with Fernandez in he fold, I can’t imagine they’d be offering anything close to value in return.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 6, 2008 1:21 PM CDT
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Where was that? Was it within the last few months?
The word in Blazer land is very different, and according to the various scheming Spaniard sources, Fernandez is announcing his move to the NBA in a few days.
The money thing was tough, as not only is the American dollar weaker than the Euro, but he could make 5+ million Euro a year if he stayed over there and not have to be reined in by the rookie scale (about 1 million for him). But, if he’s as good as they say, he’ll make a lot more here, and the only way he can get out of the rookie scale is to get those years over with in the NBA.
After Pritchard and his team went to Spain, it’s been nearly a given that Rudy was coming over. I was kidding with the Pritchard = Jesus stuff before, but he is very charismatic and Rudy seemed to respond to the show of love by the Blazer franchise. Paul Allen met with Rudy’s dad, KP and his team had a few dinners and meetings with Rudy, they got along famously and will be summering together at Martha’s Vineyard yearly.
Since then, KP won’t comment out of respect to Rudy’s current team (they’re still playing, or were) and no Euro teams have made any offers to Rudy since everyone believes he is coming to the NBA. Non-management types related to the Blazers say it would be a monumental upset if Rudy didn’t come to the Blazers now, and it has already been decided and is just waiting for the right time to announce it (and according to our Spanish friend(s) on Blazers Edge, that time has been announced as ‘in a few days’).
A while back, like months ago, I remember the worry about the money and everything, but those close to Rudy always maintained that being good in the NBA was always more important to him than the money. He’s the Kobe of Europe (in terms of relative skill, and in how he is either hated or loved), and wants to prove he can be a star in the NBA too.
The rookie scale and weak dollar will definitely hurt Euro players who don’t figure on ever being good enough in the NBA to make much more then they’d make in Europe (such as Fran Vasquez… I think that pick is wasted for good, and I don’t believe Tiago Splitter actually exists). I’d be fine with Euro veterans, if drafted out of the lottery, being able to sign with an NBA team for around (or a little less) than whatever the MLE is.
Obviously, Rudy’s drive to be great helped the Blazers out, because he is fine giving up 30 million Euros (tax free, also, cuz Euro basketball players get taxes paid by their team) for the chance to prove himself and make buckoo bucks after a few years. Hopefully, now the Blazers got a good player for very cheap. I’m tellin’ ya, KP is good at his job.
He’ll take time to adjust (he is skinny and a Euro after all) but I think he’ll be pretty good. At least at scoring.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 5, 2008 5:18 PM CDT
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Maybe Paul Allen is giving Rudy's dad
a $29 million job to help offest the hit.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 5, 2008 6:24 PM CDT
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You are CRAZY
if you think Kevin Pritchard is going to make your trade proposal happen. You are totally overvaluing Gordon. He is good but he has already his the ceiling and Outlaw is just begining to come on his own. It might work out $ wise but talent for talent, it’s a loopsided trade.
With where the blazers are at now…they don’t have to make a move and with the additional of Oden and Rudy we are almost guarantee a better season then 08’
by kungfukid on
Jun 10, 2008 3:41 PM CDT
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Did you just say that Outlaw is more valuable than Gordon? Really?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 11, 2008 11:01 PM CDT
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"Outlaw is just coming into his own"
After 5 seasons I would hope so. Too bad coming into his own still involves playing less than 30 minutes a game, which means he’s a role player with potential, AKA Thabo Sefolosha.
Some people may overvalue Gordon as anything more than just a scorer, but to say Outlaw has a potential higher than Gordon that somehow hasn’t been fulfilled after 5 seasons on a team that has been developing young players the entire time…..yeah that’s just a tad askew.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 11, 2008 11:11 PM CDT
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Outlaw is one of those players
That his own fans value more than other fans do, sometimes.
Then again, he is also overrated by other fans who don’t get the chance to see his faults (defense)...
I take Kungfukid as being the ones who just love Outlaw so much that they wouldn’t like to trade him for anyone. Outlaw came to the Blazers back during the worst of the Jail Blazer days; a simple kid from small town Mississippi coming to a horrible locker room, poisonous management situation, and little guidance from nice guy but bad coach Maurice Cheeks… and I’d say he’s a kid who needs constant coaching and guidance to learn what he needs to do.
Since the organization has been cleaned out, since Coach Nate took over, Outlaw has greatly improved each year. True, it’s been 5 years, but from where he was 5 years ago… he was awful. Dreadful. He could dunk, but dribbling, shooting, anything involving playing basketball, he wasn’t very good at.
He’s the longest tenured Blazer even though he’s age 23, and has had some unstoppable offensive games. Some fans hope that is a sign of the future, and would hate to lose him. I still worry about his basketball IQ, which has been seriously lacking historically—though often he has been the type that takes a while to ‘get it’, but once he gots it he gots it. Just takes time.
So, after all these years invested in him, I know lots of Blazer fans and some management are hesitant to let him go, even though he’s probably the most valuable tradeable player outside of the big 3 (and outside Raef’s expiring deal).
While he gets nice blocks, he is an awful defender, and still struggles with his athletic asthma. That may always keep him around or under 30 mins a game. Fortunately, his outlook and attitude will likely always make him okay with coming off the bench.
Ben Gordon is much more consistent, all round, and effective, so don’t think I’m arguing that. Just offering some insight into the relationship between Outlaw and Blazer fans. Ben Gordon is a star, Blazer fans can only hope Outlaw becomes consistent enough to be a star (or a 6th man of the year candidate, which I think is what he could become).
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 12, 2008 2:12 AM CDT
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thank you for the intelligent analysis of the two players.
As a Bulls fan, I believe that Thabo’s development could be similar to Outlaw’s. Thabo will need a lot of seasoning and patience from coaching. I also think Thabo has as much, if not more, potential than Outlaw. He’s a better defender, similar jumpshot to Outlaw at his age. Thabo’s ballhandling, jumpshot, IQ, court sense all need to improve.
Gordon is so, so dissimilar to Thabo or Outlaw. He is very polished, but probably doesn’t have as much potential as Thabo. I have a hard time saying Outlaw has more potential than Gordon since he has been in the league for five years or so. And he’s not close to Gordon’s level yet.
I’m not the biggest fan of Ben Gordon. But comparing Outlaw and Gordon is foolish. They are not similar players. At all. And Ben Gordon is a better basketball player right now. If you wanted to compare Outlaw to anyone on the Bulls roster – try Thabo, maybe Tyrus. And I think the Bulls would rather have Thabo.
by swede2287 on
Jun 12, 2008 11:41 AM CDT
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i doubt the bulls trade gordon
this summer, whether they draft rose or beasley. both those guys can draw double teams and make the defense collapse, which is what bg has been waiting for. he can hang out on the arc all night, and when the defender closes in on him too quickly, all he will need to do is a little pump fake and go right to the hoop himself, or pull up for a mid range jumper. if they draft rose, i am going to be so stoked to watch rose, bg, deng, thomas, and noah play together. that will be a fun group to watch for a years to come, imo
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on
Jun 5, 2008 12:31 PM CDT
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Seriously. It will be fun.
W/ Hinrich (1/2), Thabo (2/3) and Gooden (4/5) off the bench. And some random Noc-ness in the 3/4, too.
I don’t see how that’s not a 41-win team (almost) no matter who the coach is. And if Rose comes out firing on all cylinders (unlikely) and they get a good coach, that’s a 45-win team w/ four starters under 24 years old. At least, that’s my dream.
by tyger1147 on
Jun 5, 2008 1:15 PM CDT
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I wouldn't mind losing a 1st round series to the C's or Pistons next year
As long as whichever rookie they draft shows flashes of being a dominant player. Screw Elton Brand consistency, I want a #1 pick that’s going to elevate his game for years.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 5, 2008 2:09 PM CDT
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Yes indeed.
The No. 1 changes expectations completely. Either Rose or Beasley will take 3 years to really be peaking, so there’s no real point in acquiring 29+ year olds now.
It’s equally crucial not to make throw-ins of Tyrus, Thabo, or Joakim. Or Trading Deng, for that matter, unless we don’t think they’re good AND we don’t lose youth in the deal.
The public wants what the public gets....
by marionette on
Jun 5, 2008 5:10 PM CDT
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totally man
We need to rebuild around our #1, and our youth movement. If take Rose, we need to test Thabo+(tall shooter to be traded for/drafted) at the 2, and run the rest of our guys in front (Tyrus/Noah/Deng). Keep Noce because he teaches whup-ass, use rest for parts to acquire meat.
by iBurkey on
Jun 9, 2008 11:42 AM CDT
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Dream Come True
You and CONOR6 have just outlined my dream team
by Alighieri on
Jun 5, 2008 9:27 PM CDT
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No Blazers trade
The only player the Blazers has that would make the Bulls better is Oden. And that trade is not going to happen…
by JustAnotherFan on
Jun 5, 2008 12:40 PM CDT
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what?
Blazers aint trading Oden!
And if Roy for Hinrich was available.. I’d do it quickly
Outlaw for Noc.. I’d also do it quickly.
Bulls would be better with those two, only to name a few besides Oden.
here’s another
Former players: The Blazers coach for the Bulls GM, another good trade!
by exult463 on
Jun 5, 2008 1:51 PM CDT
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Yup
Cuz Aaron Gray is such an upgrade over LaMarcus.
by BlazersOrBust on
Jun 5, 2008 6:35 PM CDT
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Gray is 7 feet without shoes
You can’t teach height.
Morty-murr
by Mortimer on
Jun 5, 2008 6:57 PM CDT
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I thought for sure
that a rabid Bulls fan had replied with a twelve-point manifesto arguing that, in fact, Aaron Grey is a significant upgrade over LMA. I was so ready to go to the mattresses. ::sigh:: should have known Morty-murr was on the BaB prowl.
by BlazersOrBust on
Jun 5, 2008 7:11 PM CDT
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Only the most delusional around here see Gray as anything more than a situational guy
And those delusional to believe Gray has a future as a starter or even significant contributor probably believe that LMA is a future All Star and not just Joe Smith reincarnate.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 5, 2008 9:29 PM CDT
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Don't insult the Official Aaron Gray Fan Club, Red Kerr, president
Here's to the most exciting offseason in a VERY long time!
by wjb1492 on
Jun 5, 2008 9:34 PM CDT
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Portland has a good PR department
So good the local reporters dress like cheerleaders in hopes of being the next one hired by the Trail Blazers’ PR department. I can’t put taking advantage of fan voting past the Blazers. Although it’d still be tough to get Aldridge voted in with 7 or clearly better power forwards in the West.
by hscs on
Jun 5, 2008 9:52 PM CDT
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He's the next KG
or better last I heard for Blazer fans.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on
Jun 7, 2008 11:37 AM CDT
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Next Sheed
Not KG, Sheed. But with a good attitude.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 7, 2008 8:55 PM CDT
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They only yell at you
If you say one of their players is good.
Say Kirk Hinrich is alright and a decent PG, and you’ll get death threats from some people.
The common dude here is completely fooling themselves about LMA (COMPLETELY fooling thyself), but they know Aaron Grey is just wet laundry assembled in a vague human-esque shape.
I like Bulls fans and some of their players, but BaBers are so angry. Especially for a group that got the #1 pick and still got good players on a team in the weak East. I admit I didn’t check in here before this season’s big disappointment, so I’ll assume the anger stems from the dashing of high hopes formed before the season started.
The debate over LMA can only be truly answered by LMA, but you do know that every other pundit, analyst, pretty much anyone aside from Bulls fans realize that LMA has a lot of potential and has already become a good PF, right? And it’s not like Tyrus won’t become a good player; he isn’t a bust. LMA just so happens to have become good before even the Blazers predicted. Tyrus could become good too.
I just don’t get the outright LMA hate, just because your GM didn’t take him. If it’s a mistake, oh well. Be more mad at Paxson. If you don’t think it’s a mistake, then you should be happy to have Tyrus.
I’m not trying to be preachy or unreasonable, it’s just odd to me.
I dunno.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 5, 2008 10:38 PM CDT
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heh
you’re the one hating on Joe Smith :-) (BaBers only said that LMA was very similar to Joe Smith, not that he sucked. Joe Smith was actually, in a way, the only bright spot for the Bulls this year)
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on
Jun 6, 2008 2:19 AM CDT
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I think Joe Smith is too unfairly maligned
He’s had a decent career, especially now that he’s an older big man. He’s probably more valuable now as a solid veteran than back when he was young n’ spry.
Of course, I don’t think anyone takes a Joe Smith comparison as a compliment. I ain’t hating on him, per se, even if it’s an erroneous comparison. LMA is bigger, longer, stronger, more athletic, and better at the same age with still room to grow.
If the comparison to Joe Smith was meant as a compliment, then I am glad enough time has passed since the 2006 draft that the bitter memories of owning the rights to LMA for 15 minutes have started to fade away. With the hatred LMA gets sometimes, it was clearly a very traumatic time for BaBers.
I know by posting about this issue again it makes me appear to be more obssessed with LMA and his rep than I really am, but I’m honestly just intrigued by a fanbase hating a young player with clear potential for no other reason than they had drafted him and traded him. It just seems like either misguided or misdirected anger.
It shouldn’t bug me enough to post about it, I just don’t quite understand it. If LMA and the Blazers meet the Bulls in the finals in 2010 and LMA hits the game winning shot in game 7, then I’ll get it. Until then…
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 6, 2008 3:20 AM CDT
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The reason to point out that LMA is basically Joe Smith
arises from the Bulls fans base, not in any need to tear a player down. The Bulls fans that think Aldridge would have been the savior and the mythical low-post scorer needed a wakeup call. Aldridge isn’t a low post scorer, doesn’t rebound, and isn’t a defensive anchor. And even if he did score a lot of points in paint, a team still couldn’t run the offense through him because he doesn’t pass. Aldridge is at best the 3rd or 4th best player on a really good team because he doesn’t do those things, but luckily Portland got Oden so Aldridge is a great fit as the teams 3rd best player. However, Aldridge would have always been the wrong pick or the Bulls.
You can debate the merits of Roy/Tyrus, but Bulls fans who think Paxson made a mistake by not picking Aldridge are delusional. Although, I admit Skiles would have had a giant man crush on LMA, and supposedly he did before the draft. I didn’t explain why LMA basically = Joe Smith because I was angry about missing out on Aldridge. And hopefully that valid comparison helped many Bulls fans get over their irrational belief in the powers of LaMarcus Aldridge. And I’m just as happy to tell Portland fans who belong to the same religion to leave the cult. If you’re one of the Portland fans that think Aldridge is one of the best PFs in the west and future perennial All-Star then explain to me where Aldridge learns to rebound, pass, or defend. Guys who derive almost all their value from being low turnover/finishers don’t greatly improve throughout their careers. Aldridge is what he is. Which I guess is fine for Portland, but wouldn’t have done much for the Bulls. The problem isn’t Aldridge. It’s basketball fans.
formerly sbulls
by Scotter on
Jun 6, 2008 9:48 AM CDT
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I understand rebounding...
Obviously LMA wasn’t a dominant rebounder, only getting about 8 a game.
But not a good defender or passer? That’s silly. He isn’t Zach Randolph, and LMA’s defense and passing is a big reason trading Z-Bo for nothing and giving all those minutes to LMA made the Blazers a better team. Sometimes LMA is too unselfish.
You’re not gonna run your offense through him like KG, but LMA is a good big man passer. He did well with Oden in summer league, and often hit the cutter or the open man out of the double team. He was double teamed every single night, and learned how to deal with that with smart passing. The Blazers were one of the best 3-point shooting team, and a lot of that was having a big man who gets doubled nearly every time he touches the ball (LMA) and knowing how to pass out of it (which Z-Bo could never do). He’d pass it out, the ball would swing to an open shooter, etc.
LMA was never a bad passer, so I’m not sure where you got that…
And bad defender? LMA has shut down Sheed, Dirk, Pau, lots of good PFs. He’s very quick and is a great perimeter defender, especially for a big man. Unlike young bigs like Al Jefferson, Z-Bo, Amare, Boozer, LMA actually tries on defense. He’ll improve on defense as he gets bigger, but he’s already a good defender.
Again, I’m not sure who you’re describing.
The frustrating thing with LMA to Blazer fans is one game he’ll have 15 rebounds, the next he’ll have 4. He wasn’t consistent with rebounding at all. He, as one of our best perimeter defenders, was often out on the perimeter on defense, putting him out of position for the defensive board, but that isn’t the case all the time. Some games he’d look like a natural rebounder, other games he’d just be in the wrong spot every time.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a young big to get better at rebounding when he has shown the ability to have big rebounding games at times. Obviously though, LMA’s biggest weakness is not being a dominant rebounder.
Otherwise, he’s a great finisher in the paint, has a sweet hook shot and post moves that got better every game, obviously can hit the jumper, good passer, plays defense… basically the LMA you describe doesn’t exist.
And that’s the thing I find strange, because either he is irrationally hated by BaBers or hated for things he doesn’t do.
Right now, he’s a good PF. Not great. But he has undeniable potential and a work ethic that everyone claims is one of the best they’ve seen. He needs to get stronger to establish better post position, and to rebound better. He needs to be more decisive with his post moves, and learn the whens and whys of which move to do. In his second year he became a very dependable scorer and defender, who has to be double teamed every night. He’s a good, improving passer who rarely turned the ball over. He dunks on people, has great length, and is athletic. He’s raw, yet still does well.
My point is, he’ll only get better. He is what you want in a young big man: unselfish, all-round game, hard worker. To make up negatives about LMA to support not drafting him is either delusional or deliberately misleading. What you listed as his faults aren’t things we can chalk up to differing opinions, either.
Basically, LMA isn’t perfect, he isn’t an elite PF yet. If he doesn’t fit the Bulls, that’s fine (although I think he woulda’ been perfect for the Bulls), but critiquing him for things he either does well or never had a problem with to explain why he wouldn’t fit the bulls is… wrong. Incorrect.
Even Bill Simmons admitted he was wrong about LMA, and that took less than a few months.
Thank you for responding though, because it does shed light into why some BaBers hate LMA more than I think they should. They do it to battle back the BaBers who wanted to get LMA, is part of it. That sounds reasonable to me; over at Blazers Edge someone like Russell Westbrook can be talked up to the point where he’s the new Jesus in sneakers, so some have to exaggerate or create negatives to temper the crowds.
I just think a player should be judged for what they do, and not what someone unfamiliar with their game thinks they do.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 6, 2008 2:49 PM CDT
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By the by
I apologize again for writing so much, and I know things would be different if Bulls’ management and coaching would just play the young guys who are the future of the franchise, i.e., Tyrus.
I think Paxson and the former coaches deserve the grief they get. I hope you guys get someone better than Doug “Average in every way” Collins.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 6, 2008 2:59 PM CDT
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Poor LaMarcus, poor Portland. Why can't anyone understand? Sob.
by hscs on
Jun 6, 2008 3:56 PM CDT
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Haha
Oh well, I’m just wonderin’.
It just sucks to be a Blazer fan right now :-(
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 6, 2008 4:08 PM CDT
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HAHAHAHAHAHA
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 7, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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The LMA you decribe doesn't exist either.
Good Grief. Substitute average for bad in my post and everyone should be happy, which makes him what I’ve said all along a younger slightly better Joe Smith. The 3rd or 4th best player on a really good team. He’s has all these great post moves and skills that add up to 52% TS%. That doesn’t make him an elite PF in either the present or the future.
formerly sbulls
by Scotter on
Jun 6, 2008 4:49 PM CDT
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I will eat my hat
if LMA isn’t an All-Star for the Blazers in the next two years. We’re talking about a guy who played spot minutes behind the Black Hole Otherwise Known As Z-Bo for the first two-thirds of his rookie year and had the final third truncated with a heart condition.
For his sophomore campaign, the team thrust him into a starting role, played him 35 minutes a night, and asked him to be one of the two pillars of the team offensively. Aldridge went from an afterthought to being a focal point of other teams' defensive game-planning. He did so on a team that had absolutely no competent offensive veteran bigs helping him hold down the fort, and he performed admirably.
I think David West is a much better comparison for LMA than Joe Smith. Compare the rookie/sophomore statistical seasons of West/Aldridge—they’re virtually identical, and West put up his numbers with two extra years of fine-tuning in college. Aldridge has the potential to be a better defender to boot, IMO, though I freely admit that I’ve seen very little of West’s defense personally and am basing that mostly on things I’ve read.
Not being a homer here, or not trying to be anyway. I just don’t understand how you can so cavalierly dismiss the potential of a 22-year-old with just two years’ NBA experience who just posted a 17 and eight on a historically young team and who has by all accounts an insanely good work ethic. I don’t know how much of the Blazers you’ve seen or on what you’re basing your thoughts, but based on what I’ve seen, I’ll turn in my Blazers fan card if I’m wrong about LMA becoming an elite PF.
by BlazersOrBust on
Jun 6, 2008 9:28 PM CDT
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Should say
For his sophomore campaign, the team thrust him into a staring role, played him 35 minutes a night, and asked him to be one of the two pillars of the team offensively. In the course of an off-season, he went from being an afterthought to being a focal point of opposing teams’ defensive game-planing, facing nightly double-teams, and he performed admirably.
by BlazersOrBust on
Jun 6, 2008 9:33 PM CDT
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If you realize that the Smith comparisons are when he was young
It wouldn’t be that big of an insult to Blazers fans. Yes, Aldridge is a very good player, not great, and I just don’t think he will be. I thought he was going to be a saner version of Sheed, but his post moves just aren’t there. I’ve watched him play, he’s a jump shooter above all else. If he’s an All-Star, then he’ll be one without a dominant post game.
I don’t really buy the David West comparison. West’s numbers may be similar, but he’s a lot stronger than Aldridge, and really worked on creating his own shot this year. Maybe Aldridge can do that eventually as well, but for now he is a more polished version of the 1997 Joe Smith.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 6, 2008 10:26 PM CDT
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I have to agree on the lack of post moves
It’s something Aldridge is supposed to be working on this summer. He was shown some stats about how much he scores, when he scores, and what his percentages are. It opened his eyes a bit.
We’ll see where he comes out this next season.
Part of it may also be that he still needs to build up his body and strength to be able to handle those post moves and power moves. Then again, with Oden coming in, that’s going to reduce the blazer’ s post weakness quite a bit.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 7, 2008 3:26 PM CDT
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I dunno
Bullets Era, Blazers era Sheed (even Pistons era Sheed) isn’t a bevy of post moves. He does the LMA turnaround, and the LMA jumphook.
I don’t think LMA is KG (no sane person does), I think he is the New Sheed, but with a better work ethic and attitude. Blazer fans know Sheed, and they see LMA is like him down to the top-o-release jumper.
He’s just a better scorer than Sheed.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 7, 2008 8:58 PM CDT
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I gotta disagree
Aldridge has more of a Chris Bosh game. Really we’ll see in a few more years though.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 7, 2008 3:24 PM CDT
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Have you seen Chris Bosh play?
Bosh rebounds his position, especially (20% Def Rebount rate v. 15% for Aldridge). Bosh unlike Aldridge puts the ball on the floor and create. Which is why, Bosh shoots 1 FTA for every 2 FGA. Aldridge shoots 1 FTA for every 4 FGA. Bosh was putting up 22+ PERs at the same as Aldridge was in his first two years. It’s not within Aldridge’s ability to be a Chris Bosh type player. Rasheed Wallace with his head on straight is a much better hope.
formerly sbulls
by Scotter on
Jun 7, 2008 4:05 PM CDT
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REbounding
I feel that Aldridge gets somewhat of a bum deal on the rebounding because of the style of defense the blazers play. He ends up pulled out a bit and thus isn’t in position for rebounds.
Still… rebounding is an attitude.
I don’t know that he’ll be as good as Rasheed because rasheed had post moves. Still, if he could approach that level I’d take it. Rasheed is one of the most complete PF’s in the game and with a head on straight… wow.
I think this year we’ll really see what Aldridge can do.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 8, 2008 1:12 PM CDT
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LMA should never be compared with David West.
by swede2287 on
Jun 12, 2008 11:44 AM CDT
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David West is stronger, quicker,
much better handling the ball. His inside/outside scoring abilities is one of the best in the league from the PF position. And his skills are perfectly complemented by Chris Paul. I do think that LMA can be a good player. But his game is never going to be similar to David West because of his slight frame and weaker ballhandling.
by swede2287 on
Jun 12, 2008 11:48 AM CDT
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OT
Hey, Scotter, could you go back to the Kobe/MJ thread and read the question I posted for you? Appreciate it. Thanks
by California Al on
Jun 7, 2008 2:21 AM CDT
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The point you made drives home what we are saying.
“LMA has shut down Sheed, Dirk, Pau, lots of good PFs. He’s very quick and is a great perimeter defender, especially for a big man”
Softness… He can guard a guy in the high post and on the perimeter but he is not a very good defender down low on the blocks. All the guys you mentioned aren’t guys that are going to post Aldridge down on the block. Hell Dirk is allergic to the post.
Thank you for responding though… it might explain why Blazer fans are so delusional about the talent level of LMA.
I just think a player should be judged on their total skill set and not mythical abilities that don’t have.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on
Jun 7, 2008 11:52 AM CDT
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Aldridge still needs to build up strength
This may or may not be something he’ll be able to do. He then needs to change his mindset as well. IF he can do those things, he’ll be fantastic in the post.
To your point, you’re correct. Aldridge is not a real post player yet and some of what the blazer fans see is the potential because he’s still developing. Those skills have not been exhibited enough to say they’re there though. You’re right.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 7, 2008 3:29 PM CDT
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This is why..
We as Bulls fans do not see Aldridge as the answer at PF for us. We do not have Oden coming. Therefore we do not regret making the trade for Tyrus other than we passed on Roy. LMA was not the answer for us at the “4”. If Oden fulfills his potential then LMA will be a beautiful compliment to your front line.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on
Jun 8, 2008 12:35 PM CDT
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I believe Aldridge CAN do that
but it’s obviously not coming naturally, and with Oden in the middle it may not be needed next year.
Still, as long as we’re both happy, that works.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 8, 2008 1:06 PM CDT
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Personally,
as a fan of the opposition, I’d much rather you were unhappy.
The public wants what the public gets....
by marionette on
Jun 8, 2008 5:18 PM CDT
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You are just saying that because your
GM made a mistake. Admit it! Your GM screwed up and now you are downplaying the pay of LMA. Sour Grapes….
by kungfukid on
Jun 10, 2008 3:51 PM CDT
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Exactly
When LMA is able to dominate the low post like Kevin McHale, every Blazer fan would have seen it coming.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 10, 2008 6:09 PM CDT
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Oooh that'd be sweet
But no, just an inside/outside game like Sheed had with Portland. Before he shot 3’s all day (in Portland he only shot 3’s half the day).
He’s just not as all-outside as people seem to think. He scores a lot off of dunks and real live post moves.
I know the problem I had before was just the blanket disregard for LMA as a player that was the near-complete opposite of how he had played during the season. I know it’s not a big deal, just always made me curious that the Bulls fans disliked him so.
I’ve also realized that Bulls fans give it to their own players and management more than they’ve given it to LMA, so it’s probably more lame of me than I thought it was to ask why LMA gets such guff when he’s exceeded expectations. It’s just par for the course, for better or worse.
I’ve always enjoyed following the Bulls since they were the early Baby Bulls, and with recent history I agree with those who hate their management. Paxson and Reinsdorf make me angry, and I shouldn’t give a damn.
I liked the joke that was said before Vinny The Negro was hired, that Reinsdorf was only interviewing people near his house in Arizona. I really think Vinny also lived near the owner. That’s hilarious.
The Bulls management needs to get their act together so we can have a rematch of the ‘92 finals.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 10, 2008 9:28 PM CDT
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Also be aware
That LMA would have languished just like Tyrus on the bench, with Nocioni, PJ Brown, and Joe Smith (lol) all taking minutes from a young player trying to develop. It took a mid season trade for Joakim Noah to finally get some serious minutes at center. The Bulls do not have a good history with developing big men.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 8, 2008 12:43 PM CDT
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That's true
and an excellent point. Sometimes players really need playing time to show what they can do or they’re called busts. I’ve seen a couple of talented players where that’s happened and they end up fading away.
Timing can be everything.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 8, 2008 1:05 PM CDT
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Funny
I always thought the LMA hate came from the fact that he’s doing better as a Blazer than TT as a Bull. Which is also indirectly Pax hate.
For me, the 2006 draft will always be the day I yelled at my computer because we took 2 guys (LMA then TT) over Brendon Roy. The biggest kick was when Roy became the Rookie of the Year. That was in no way anywhere near fun.
by Alighieri on
Jun 11, 2008 1:44 AM CDT
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Sorry Matt
Didn’t even see your post until I put mine up, way to just beat me to it…by about 4 hours.
by Ugh It Live! on
Jun 5, 2008 1:58 PM CDT
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heh
no worries.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 5, 2008 2:03 PM CDT
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no trade
we can’t trade ben to portland unless we could get back either oden, aldrigde, or roy. ben is to good of a scorer to give him up for anybody on the blazers outside of their core group. rose and ben is much better than rose and kirk in the back court.
by FUTURE12 on
Jun 5, 2008 2:28 PM CDT
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Come on now
This isn’t a comedy show, this is very important stuff!
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on
Jun 5, 2008 3:47 PM CDT
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WTF
do you watch basketball? besides for oden, roy and aldrigde, ben is better than everyone they have on the blazers. you would probably trade ben for D miles and a second round pick.
by FUTURE12 on
Jun 5, 2008 6:23 PM CDT
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Blazer fan here
I thought I’d let you know whatsup. We will never trade Greg Oden or Brandon Roy. Say it with me now…The Blazers will never trade Greg Oden or Brandon Roy. Alos, Ben Gordon is not as coveted around the league as you think. I’d even say it is very unlikely we would do a trade for Gordon that involved Aldridge, Webster, Outlaw, or Pryzbilla. The best we could probably do for Gordon is Frye, Jack, our #13, and Raef LaFrentz with his 12 mil expiring contract. We’d prob have to take back Hughes or someone so it’s never going to happen either way. But seriously, Gordon for Oden or Roy? Get real.
by Kelsoballa on
Jun 6, 2008 5:17 PM CDT
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thanks for the heads up
I think that was the point, they’re not trading Oden or Roy so there’s little fit in dealing with the Blazers.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 7, 2008 1:07 PM CDT
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Agreed
Blazers are also not trading Aldridge.
Everything else could be on the table except for Rudy depending on how negotiations went.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 7, 2008 3:18 PM CDT
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Not A Blazers Fan Here
I was saying that besides for the three core players(oden, roy and aldridge) that they have the team is fulled with bums and ben is better than everyone else on the team. so the bulls wouldn’t dare trade him for any one but one of their core players.
by FUTURE12 on
Jun 7, 2008 10:05 PM CDT
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That's understandable.
but it can depend on the point of the trade too. Do you get better now or are you looking to rip the team apart and rebuild. Still, I don’t know that the bulls are at a rebuild stage as they’re all pretty young.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 8, 2008 1:08 PM CDT
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They dont' need to rip the team apart
But they do need to make some decisions about a few players. And Hinrich is one of them. Besides, they will get even younger with the addition of Beasley or Rose in a few weeks.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 8, 2008 1:18 PM CDT
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Yup
WAtch basketball, and I’d take Roy, Oden, or Aldridge over Ben without thinking.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 7, 2008 3:17 PM CDT
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I agree
Oden, Roy and Aldridge are the only players that could make Bulls better. Given up a good player like Gordon – he could be better if he wasn’t so selfish – for another(s) that doesn’t come to improve the team, I don’t want it… But if the Blazers would want to trade some crap for Hughes, I would accept it immediately . Who wouldn’t???
When are you going to do something good Pax?
by bull83 on
Jun 5, 2008 5:28 PM CDT
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Disagree...
The other thing that would make the Bulls better would be to trade their fans for the Blazers fans but who in their right mind would do that…I guess you are out of luck Bull fans….
by kungfukid on
Jun 10, 2008 3:53 PM CDT
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hi-larious
I traded you back to blazersedge for a commenter to be named later.
(I turned down LaMarcus Aldridge)
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 10, 2008 3:57 PM CDT
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He does this over at our site 2
and Dave, our version of you, had to call him out by name in a thread once. So sorry about that.
btw, that was really funny. lol
"you have long words
they make long writing" ratbastird
Celtics over the L*kers, lesser of the 2 evils. But not by much.
by ptwnblzr on
Jun 11, 2008 6:33 PM CDT
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Dude you're so cool
You belong on the ESPN boards where Laker homers can CLOL you to death.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 10, 2008 6:10 PM CDT
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kungfukid???
is this Ralph Macchio? i didn’t know you were a blazers fan. i loved you in the outsiders.
by FUTURE12 on
Jun 11, 2008 11:58 PM CDT
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according to the
“Vandeweghe seems to be welcoming offers for the 10th, 21st and 40th choices in the June 26 draft.”Is there anyone at 10 that we could use?
by gman2849 on
Jun 5, 2008 3:05 PM CDT
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Kevin Love....it's destiny
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 5, 2008 3:40 PM CDT
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I'd like to get ahold of that 21st and then draft Rush/CDR
Not sure what they’d want back, though…
by Illini15 on
Jun 5, 2008 6:34 PM CDT
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to many 1s and 2s
they might be good pick ups,but we would still have to make room at the guard spot
by FUTURE12 on
Jun 5, 2008 6:57 PM CDT
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Here's your solution:
The entire National Championship-winning Kansas Jayhawks basketball team has declared for the NBA draft as a collective unit, SSNN has learned.
..."We just figured, we’re the ultimate team," said Mario Chalmers. "So we thought, why not go into the NBA as a package deal? We are clearly much better than the sum of our parts, so if we can find the right situation, then we’ll go there."
Reportedly the KU team is seeking an environment where they can operate as one unit, and have requested a special exemption from the NBA to let all 19 individuals play on the court at the same time as one player, conceivably providing a huge advantage to the team, which will have four real NBA players to go along with the 19 KU players – for a whopping 23-man lineup.
"It figures to get a bit crowded on the floor from time to time," Bill Self said. "But it also figures to be a whole lot of fun. Imagine how quickly we’ll get the ball up and down the court – really nobody will ever have to move. I’ve always told my players the ball moves faster than any man."
From the Serious Sports News Network
Here's to the most exciting offseason in a VERY long time!
by wjb1492 on
Jun 5, 2008 9:32 PM CDT
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I'm all for it
Could be about time we put Thabo in a sink or swim. That and Webster can be a good shooter off the bench.
I would drastically like to get Hughes off our books too. Maybe Pryz and Miles (they both have expiring contracts I think) plus they can be useful through the season. But more importantly, Gordon is the only thing stopping us from seeing Larry Hughes playing 40 minutes at the 2.
Does that scare anyone else other than me?
by Alighieri on
Jun 5, 2008 9:24 PM CDT
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Actually
The only thing thats stopping larry hughes from playing 40minutes is larry hughes not bgordan, larry hughes is the most injured player with talent in the league, he is worst than t-mac, yao and baron davis when it comes to durability, so y get rid of gordan who is cheaper younger faster and is more healthy then a larry hughes, if anything we need to ship hinrich and got lamarcus aldridge back 17 and 7 who we gave up for tyrus thomas 5 and 5 even tho the salary do not match we need to find away to correct that mistake,
"Please can I wear a Headband" said Kirk Hinrich
by danny c on
Jun 6, 2008 2:21 AM CDT
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Miles
has been waived by the players for medical reasons and been declared unfit to play.
The blazers might part with Pryz for the right price, but that’s iffy. As much as Oden has potential, I believe the blazers would be nervous about letting Pryz go until Oden has proven himself. Oden will also need some mentorship and Pryz should be able to provide that to some extent.
Converse side, I don’t see the blazers looking for Larry Hughes. They’re either going to stay pat or find a significant upgrade and hte upgrade will need to be useful for at least 4-5 years. The purpose of trading won’t just be for the upgrade but also to thin out the bench a bit because there’s a glut of players that have potential to be good starters or good bench players, but not all of them see as much playing time as they might like to develop and with the addition of Rudy and Oden, the blazers will need to clear out some room.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 7, 2008 3:34 PM CDT
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Gordon
Don’t really want.
I don’t see him fitting into the chemistry or style of the blazers. I suspect that any trade for him would end up being a piece that goes elsewhere for something else for the blazers.
They’re looking for two things right now. Young team oriented talent that fits their championship window, or strong veteran leadership from an intelligent player that can guide the younger players on the court.
"We play for one thing and one thing only, and that's championships." - The Devil Spawned
by ratbastird on
Jun 7, 2008 3:37 PM CDT
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is this blog a blazer?
i never thought i’d see so many bulls fans that like the blazers.
by FUTURE12 on
Jun 7, 2008 10:12 PM CDT
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What's not to like about the Blazers
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 8, 2008 1:27 AM CDT
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Their verbose fans?
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on
Jun 8, 2008 10:39 AM CDT
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Meh
I believe there were plenty of us who thought Deng would be an All-Star this year. Besides, I would much rather talk to a Blazer fan, than say a fan of the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics, Pistons, etc etc.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 8, 2008 11:43 AM CDT
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fuck the blazers and their fan and loul will be a all-star this year
by FUTURE12 on
Jun 8, 2008 11:25 PM CDT
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I hope Luol is an allstar
He almost messed up my fantasy championship by kinda sucking. I’ll be able to draft him late again, hoping he’ll FINALLY have his breakout year.
Blazers and Bulls, the franchises, will often be linked and have had many things in common for a long time, ever since Portland didn’t take Jordan. Now they got the youth thang, LMA, #1 picks in subsequent years, vocal fanbases, etc.
With how many Blazer fans there are online, I’d not sweat Blazer fans popping up when Blazer-related news comes in. You’ll be wasting your anger on something unavoidable. I know I’ll be sticking my LMA-sized nose into Blog-a-Bull when something Blazer-y comes up…
To stay somewhat on topic, I have no idea how a Gordon to Portland trade would work, as he isn’t the right player to trade one of the Big 3 for and he’s too talented to trade for any of the other promising Blazers (Outlaw, Webster, etc). I don’t see any trade that makes sense for the Bulls without bringing in another team, unless they just don’t want to pay Ben Gordon 10+ million a year.
Then again, I don’t see the Blazers wanting to do that either.
I wish Ben Gordon didn’t make it so tough. And if he goes, who the hell SCORES on this Bulls team?
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 9, 2008 5:55 AM CDT
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thank you for blessing me with all your blazerness, but...
i still say fuck the blazers and all of their lovely fans online, including you. good luck with your fantasy league and luol will be an all-star so keep picking him for your teams.
by FUTURE12 on
Jun 10, 2008 12:14 PM CDT
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Future 12
future 12 must mean at some point in the future he’ll be twelve years old. I’m guessing he’s 9 right now, but he reads at a 6th grade level. Get a life and stop saying “fuck the blazers” it is really pathetic.
by Kelsoballa on
Jun 10, 2008 6:43 PM CDT
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He's not saying it on the blazers site, too, is he!?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 10, 2008 8:11 PM CDT
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NO. it is pathetic that all you blazers fan have to come to blog a bull to have something to talk about. “Get A Life,” says one blogger to the other. You guys are funny.
by FUTURE12 on
Jun 12, 2008 12:08 AM CDT
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Where did this guy come from?
And is it too late to send him back?
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 2:37 AM CDT
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eh, he's on double-secret probation
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 11, 2008 11:08 AM CDT
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I don't see a problem with it.
We are talking about there players so it’s nice to get a different perspective and opinion.
Lil' Jon, he always tells the truth.
by upther on
Jun 9, 2008 9:40 AM CDT
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Lost?
by TRiCioNeRo on
Jun 9, 2008 1:23 AM CDT
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Wow you're so cool
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 9, 2008 11:00 AM CDT
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That's not even remotely funny
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 9, 2008 8:56 PM CDT
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nothin is remotely funny to u....
i think the bulls should keep Ben he will get alot of open looks with D Rose running the show…dont like the kirk to the blazers deal that much either
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on
Jun 10, 2008 12:42 PM CDT
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It would have been funny if it had been a real website.
Maybe.
by potato0328 on
Jun 10, 2008 8:02 PM CDT
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When the Blazers are WORTH hating
Then the current team will have arrived.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 10, 2008 9:29 PM CDT
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This must be the shortest Mortimer post in the history of SBNation.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 11, 2008 11:02 PM CDT
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I like him/her/it
If only for the way it looks when Mortimer comes up twice at the end of each post.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 11, 2008 11:12 PM CDT
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wow this got kinda
off topic huh?
I much enjoyed the non bulls perspective on talent evalution. It only makes for a better perspective for my beloved bulls.
With that said. I believe we have come to a conclusion regarding trades between the two teams. I will say that until tyrus gets his minutes to play (did you see his averages last year when he got 30 + minutes) then I will alway look wistfully at Brandon Roy.
just imagen this lineup:
Rose
Roy
Deng
Gooden
Noah
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
by gman2849 on
Jun 12, 2008 11:28 AM CDT
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No good post presence...
we wouldn’t be that good.
by swede2287 on
Jun 12, 2008 11:51 AM CDT
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The ultimate jump shooting team
I’m not sure how good Roy can be alongside a PG who will dominate the ball so much. I wonder what Blazers fans feel about their group now as opposed to drafting Chris Paul and building around him (they traded his pick for Martell Webster and some other stuff).
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 12, 2008 12:09 PM CDT
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Lots of fans pine for Chris Paul
But honestly, most believe it all worked out for the better.
First off, let me say drafting Martell Webster, even though I’m a fan, was the exact wrong move. Chris Paul or Deron Williams should have been the obvious choice (and adding to his mystique, Kevin Pritchard argued vigorously for Chris Paul before being overruled by the dummies who ran the Blazers then, GM John Nash and Prez Steve Patterson.) and this is a perfect example of how you should draft BPA (best player available) over NEED every single time—especially at the top of the draft.
BUT, here is what the wrong choice accidentally kicked off—
Since we didn’t draft Chris Paul, the Blazers really really sucked and had the worst record in the league. Paul led a previously weak Hornets team near the playoffs.
The Blazers lose the lottery and get the worst possible spot for having the worst record, #4. They Trade Telfair (the reason Nash didn’t draft Paul) and Theo Ratliff’s Expiring Contract (TREC) to Boston for pick #7 and Raef LaFrentz’s longer contract (even during Roy’s rookie year when he had long wrapped up rookie of the year, Danny Ainge would still say he believed Roy will still never be a star and Telfair had more potential). Minnesota drafts Roy for a planned trade to Houston at #9, and Houston would draft Foye.
Pritchard learns of this plan, and since he wanted Roy more than anyone he foiled those nefarious schemes by drafting Randy Foye with Boston’s 7th pick, forcing Minnesota to deal with Portland becaue Foye was who Minny wanted all along. End of the day, Telfair turned into Foye turned into Roy.
(And Houston decides if they can’t get Roy they don’t want no one, trading Rudy Gay to Memphis for Battier)
With the #4 pick, as you guys know, Pritchard swaps with the Bulls, getting LMA and giving up glue guy Viktor Khryapa. I know Viktor didn’t get much time for you guys, but Blazer fans have fond memories of him.
If we had Chris Paul, we woulda’ been a better team, and only been in a position to get Roy, maybe. And that woulda’ taken some similar wheeling and dealing, and if we had Paul we might not even think we need Roy (not to mention the old Blazers GM would look smarter than he was and Pritchard wouldn’t have been able to take over the drafting).
Also, with Chris Paul, Telfair would have rode the bench and lost much of his value he still had with GMs.
So no Chris Paul leads to LMA and Roy. They have good rookie years, Blazers improve 11 wins, and hit lady lottery lock and win the Oden sweepstakes. If the Blazers had Paul and Roy, I think it isn’t unreasonable to believe they wouldn’t have had any sort of mathematical chance at winning the lottery. They were bucking the odds enough at 5.6% chance, though the Bulls this year blew that luckiness out of the water with 1.3% or so.
Making the WRONG choice to not draft Chris Paul led to the bad GM getting fired, Kevin Pritchard taking over and getting Roy, LMA, and Oden. I think 99% of current Blazer fans feel our current core is stronger and better than having Paul and various others—though obviously having the chance to add Oden to the mix makes the biggest difference.
Another happy accident in my opinion is now Martell Webster fits the Big 3 perfectly with his outside shooting, athleticism, and much improved defense. Martell was 100% the wrong choice then, but again, it worked out in the long run because of the player he is becoming is exactly what the Big 3 needs.
Obviously, Chris Paul is amazing. Individually he is better than Roy, LMA, and we’ll see how good Oden is soon (I think Best Big Man always beats Best Point Guard, but with Paul the big man has to be really damn good to beat him). However, I think the core of Roy/LMA/Oden is better than just Paul and Roy (or Paul and Gay, etc), plus the management changes that drastically improved the Blazers likely wouldn’t have happened had they drafted Paul.
None of what I outlined is unreasonable or purely homer-rationalizations to me, as I don’t think we’d be in the same position if we had drafted Paul merely because Paul would make us too good, and being bad is what made us better. Sounds dumb, but it’s true.
If the Bulls didn’t have such a disappointing season, they wouldn’t be able to get Rose, and Rose might be the best thing to happen to the Bulls. So, it’s true for you guys too.
As far as Roy playing with another player who is best when handling the ball, I pretty much agree. Roy can play off the ball and has a good post game which obviously takes a PG to throw into him, but I think we all agree we are best served having the ball in Roy’s hands and letting him create. I don’t know if he excels like he has if he played alongside a Paul or Deron, for better or worse.
Anyways, I’m happy with where the Blazers are at. It all worked out for the better.
Sure was dumb back then, though.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on
Jun 12, 2008 1:02 PM CDT
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I think I might have to start reading the Blazers blog more.
These posts are nothing short of epic.
Illini15
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 12, 2008 9:31 PM CDT
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Blazers: Balance of Executive Power & Diverse opinions during this important period
seemly help to right the Blazers ship..
In contrast..
Bulls: Paxson ... (no one argues in bulls@executiveLevel .com)
Blazers: Kevin Pritchard argued vigorously for Chris Paul before being overruled by the dummies who ran the Blazers then, GM John Nash and Prez Steve Patterson.
by exult463 on
Jun 16, 2008 5:41 AM CDT
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Check out this analysis of Mortimer over at BlazersEdge
It’s an entire fanpost dedicated to the posting style of Mortimer. Pretty hilarious.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 15, 2008 3:30 PM CDT
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Woops...here's the link
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 15, 2008 3:31 PM CDT
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Shit.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 15, 2008 3:31 PM CDT
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Broham that is epic
I love this quote
I hate how long Mortimer’s posts are and how he’s usually right but I can’t tell because I never bother to read them”.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 15, 2008 4:10 PM CDT
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That's kind of the way I feel about piccolomair.
He/she writes great stuff, but I don’t always have the proper attention span and/or motivation to read all of it :\
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 16, 2008 11:38 PM CDT
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The way to read Picc
is to always have one eye out for the secret back door that Hinrich’s gonna pop through.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 17, 2008 12:34 AM CDT
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Kind of makes me wonder what the scouting report would like for some of us...
No doubt it would be scary.
Here's to what was suppose to be the most exciting offseason in years, but has instead spiraled downward into pitiful morass of indecision. Cheers!
by wjb1492 on
Jun 15, 2008 11:04 PM CDT
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No doubt lots of 1 sentence idioms followed by Matt saying "click reply"
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 15, 2008 11:54 PM CDT
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Makes me think of one of Bernie Lincicome's regular lead-ins...
“Some things you suspect, some you guess at and some things you just know.”
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 16, 2008 10:12 AM CDT
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i'm getting a strong sense ben gordon wouldn't mind getting traded.
javascript:newwind(‘http://www.dailyprogress.com/cdp/sports/cavalier_insider/ci_basketball/article/bulls_guard_gordon_talks_hoops/23580/’,’112’)
Maybe he’s just being realistic – but I’m not sensing that Gordon is pining to stay on this team. He says there’s too many guards on the team, and he thinks Hinrich really wants to stay.
by swede2287 on
Jun 17, 2008 8:19 PM CDT
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