Rose vs. Beasley Against NBA-Caliber Competition

by YaoPau on Jun 4, 2008 12:41 PM CDT Comment 56 comments

Much has been made of Beasley's eye-popping 26pt, 12reb average and Derrick Rose's comparatively bland 15, 4 and 4. Based on these numbers, most see Beasley as the scoring behemoth at the next level, and Rose as the player who makes his teammates better.

But there's a problem with that conclusion. Both players played in mediocre conferences (Big 12 was ranked 7th hardest, Conference USA 11th), meaning Beasley and Rose played a lot of games against non-NBA talent. What difference does it make if Beasley can put up 32-24-4 against Sacramento State, or if Derrick Rose can put up 19-2-12 against Austin Peay? How would the numbers change if we just took their stats in potential-NBA matchups? Glad you asked.

Mike Beasley against NBA-caliber PF/Cs:

(opponent, player: fgm/fga, pts, reb, ast, to)

vs. Rider, Jason Thompson: 5/11, 13, 10, 1, 0
vs. ND, Luke Harangody: 8/20, 19, 13, 1, 5
vs. Cal, Devon Hardin: 7/13, 19, 11, 2, 4
vs. Xavier, Josh Duncan: 1/6, 5, 12, 1, 5
vs. Oklahoma, Blake Griffin: 13/18, 32, 11, 0, 8
vs. Texas A&M, DeAndre Jordan: 7/14, 21, 4, 0, 0
vs. Kansas, Darrell Arthur: 9/18, 25, 6, 2, 4
vs. Kansas, Darrell Arthur: 11/23, 39, 11, 0, 2
vs. USC, Taj Gibson: 7/12, 23, 11, 2, 2
vs. Wisconsin, Brian Butch: 8/19, 23, 13, 0, 3

Averages against NBA-talent: 7.6/15.4, 21.9ppg, 10.2rpg, .9apg, 3.4topg, 58.7 TS% 32.9mpg
Averages against all others: 10.0/18.4, 28.1ppg, 13.3rpg, 1.3apg, 2.7topg, 63.0 TS%, 31.0mpg

Derrick Rose against NBA-caliber PGs:

vs. Tenn-Martin, Lester Hudson: 8/16, 17, 6, 5, 1
vs. UConn, A.J. Price: 8/17, 24, 6, 0, 5
vs. USC, OJ Mayo: 3/9, 9, 10, 4, 5
vs. Arizona, Jerryd Bayless: 5/9, 12, 3, 5, 6
vs. Gonzaga, Jeremy Pargo: 6/12, 19, 8, 9, 4
vs. Tenn, Chris Lofton: 9/16, 23, 5, 5, 3
vs. Miss St, Jamont Gordon: 6/14, 17, 9, 7, 1
vs. Mich St, Drew Neitzel: 10/16, 27, 4, 5, 1
vs. Texas, D.J. Augustin: 7/10, 21, 6, 9, 2
vs. UCLA, Darren Collison: 7/16, 25, 9, 4, 1
vs. Kansas, Mario Chalmers: 7/17, 18, 6, 8, 5

Averages against NBA-talent: 6.9/13.8, 19.3ppg, 6.5rpg, 5.5apg, 3.1topg, 57.0 TS%, 33.3mpg
Averages against all others: 4.6/9.8, 13.3ppg, 3.8rpg, 4.4apg, 2.5topg, 56.6 TS%, 27.7mpg

Immediately you see that Beasley ran up his gaudiest numbers against weak opponents while Rose turned it up for big matchups. But there are still two other factors to account for: the slight difference in minutes played, and the larger difference in team pace.

To try to compare apples to apples, I used DraftExpress's pace multiplier found on each player's stats page (slight issue here is that the pace multiplier is from each player's complete season, not in just their games listed above. The actual numbers will be a tad off from what's below). And here's what spit out:

Per-40 minute pace adjusted numbers for Beasley and Rose against NBA-caliber competition:

Beasley: 8.8/17.9, 25.4ppg, 11.8rpg, 1.0apg, 3.9topg
Rose: 7.9/15.9, 22.1ppg, 7.5rpg, 6.4apg, 3.5topg

Take any stat derived from a 10-game sample size (and created by a Rose fan) with a grain of salt... but offensively, Rose but might be a little bit closer to Beasley than most people think.

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

12 recs | Comment 56 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

wow....

thats an interesting post…..d rose is a winner!!

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 4, 2008 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is an informative post.

Nice research.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Jun 4, 2008 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Good post. Give me an hour or two and I should

be able to provide some more comprehensive stats for those 20 games.

formerly sbulls

by Scotter on Jun 4, 2008 2:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Okay here we go.

You actually had 11 opponents for each player. They do come out much closer.

Here’s the link for their statistics for the 11 games and season totals from my spreadsheet.

As you scroll right there is just about every statistic, including pace adjusted statistics for the 11 game samples using pace derived from those 11 games. (Game Score is the simple version of PER).

formerly sbulls

by Scotter on Jun 4, 2008 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Damn dude!

That’s amazing work… although I’ll need some help figuring out what each part is. Before that, though, I only listed 10 games for Beasley, not 11. If you included Texas A&M a second time that’s understandable, but DeAndre Jordan played just 5 minutes so I didn’t count it (he played 24 in the first matchup). Hopefully you didn’t divide by 11 if you only counted 10 games.

I’m not clear as to what you did with the second set of statistics. I see Rose at 1168 minutes (his full season’s worth), yet you have him scoring 18.4ppg. Same question with Beasley and his 33.3ppg.

by YaoPau on Jun 4, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I included the 2nd A&M game. I didn't know that he only played 5 min.

The 2nd set of statistics is there full season numbers. The numbers you’re referencing are their unadjusted per 40 minutes statistics. If you scroll to the right you pass all the advanced stuff, pass their straight totals, and their contribution to team statistics, and then you’ll get to their pace adjusted per 40 minutes statistics and their unadjusted per game statistics. Most of the headings should be familiar, but feel free to ask questions.

formerly sbulls

by Scotter on Jun 4, 2008 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For Rose's per 40...

I did (40/29.2)*14.9 to get 20.4pp40, not 18.4. What did I do wrong?

by YaoPau on Jun 4, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks you caught an error. A typing mistake cost Rose 60 points

off of his season totals. It wouldn’t have changed most of the stats, but it changed a few.

Here’s the corrected version. That should be the only mistake. I’m pretty good about double checking.

formerly sbulls

by Scotter on Jun 4, 2008 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

talk about skewing results… I like how Rose “turned it up” against NBA caliber players (and still had worse numbers than Beasley) and you ignore the fact that he was mediocre at best against some awful competition. Also you leave Damian James and Marcus Dove off the list despite being two of the best defensive power forwards in the country?

Can’t you say something for dominating the people you’re supposed to dominate? I think the Bulls could use someone like that considerring how they lose to the likes of Charlotte and Memphis far too much for my liking.

by JSlakov on Jun 4, 2008 6:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Congratulations!!!

Great post. This is the one every one was waiting for. After reading this, my littlest doubts disappeared. If Pax don’t get Rose, he will be DUM!!!

When are you going to do something good Pax?

by bull83 on Jun 4, 2008 7:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting statistics, but

have any of you guys actually watch either one play more than one or two games? I personally didn’t watch Rose at all so I can’t really say much about him. But I did follow Beasley being a K-State alum myself – I even was at the KSU-Baylor game when he dropped 44 points. You can throw all the statistics out there you want, but those stats don’t show that he was double teamed everytime he touched the ball and quite often triple teamed. He had a target on his back and still put up one of the most impressive college basketball seasons ever.

Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.

by mystman995 on Jun 4, 2008 9:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Personally I've watched Rose play a bunch

and I saw him as the go-to player against Tennessee and Gonzaga and throughout the tournament, and it’s the reason why I crunched those numbers in the first place. From what I saw, he’s a much better scorer than people have given him credit for.

That’s not to say Beasley is any slouch. JSlakov is right that as much as Rose turned up his game, Beasley’s stats were still just as good. This post was meant to show that Rose also is a premier scoring talent. Beasley’s ability is already established.

by YaoPau on Jun 4, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

for all your time and efforts ...

shouldn’t you (and sbulls) be on the Bulls payroll? i just hope someone on Paxson’s team has done something like this. and it’s not a given that they have or they will.

at the very least, i should be seeing your work on 82games.com where it’s more likely nba teams will notice. unless Pax reads blog-a-bull of course …

Rose '08

by Orange Juice on Jun 4, 2008 11:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If Paxson read BaB

His head would explode with common sense.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 5, 2008 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And 1000 different trade scenarios

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 5, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And some Hinrich Love :)

And alot of hinrich hate :(

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....

by piccolomair on Jun 5, 2008 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good analysis....

But if these differences for Rose are as large as they appear to be, then I’m not comfortable assuming that he’s really the caliber of player indicated by his stats against “NBA caliber” competition – if this significant difference truly exists, we first need to understand why his performance was so poor against inferior competition. (Those data points count too!).

If, in fact, those tended to be games that were blowouts for Memphis, and there are legitimate reasons why Rose didn’t involve himself as aggressively within the offense, then fine – let’s place some serious weight on these numbers.

On the other hand, if there is nothing to really segregate the games against non-NBA caliber competition from the 11 identified above, then these numbers need to be taken with a serious grain of salt, or even worse – the question needs to be raised why Rose wasn’t trying in the other games.

In the book “Fab Five”, Mitch Albom writes that, to the Fab Five all games fell into two categories:

1. Games that mattered.
2. Games that were to be endured.

While I will forever LOVE the Fab Five – nostalgia isn’t something that lessens over time – this is not a mindset I want in a professional ballplayer.

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on Jun 5, 2008 12:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I was watching game1 of this year's ncaa (courtesy of scotter's link)

and the announcer mentioned that ten guys on Memphis averaged double digits in scoring. He said this right after Memphis had built a big early lead and Cali subbed out the entire starting 5.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Jun 5, 2008 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's ridiculous

Maybe 10 guys had a game during the season where they scored double figures? Or maybe the fact that 9 guys on their team averaged double figure minutes? Douglas-Roberts and Rose were actually the only 2 guys who averaged double figures in scoring for the season though.

by rb22 on Jun 5, 2008 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for pointing this out.

After I posted it I realized I’d screwed it up. Is it possible that he said that ten different players had scored in double figures in a game sometime during the season?

(It’d be nice to be able to delete a regular post a la a fanshot/post.)

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Jun 5, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's reasons for the difference.

Against tougher competition, Rose handled the ball significantly more and was more aggressive trying to score. There are a bunch of indicators of this in his statistics. However, this seemed like a case of a freshman player trying to play within the system and not dominate the ball. I think that’s different than Fab Five. His turnovers decreased and FG% rose as the year went on. Also 58% of his minutes against better competition came in the last five games of the tourney where he was outstanding. In the tourney he had a TS% of 61%, a TO% of only 11%, and offensive rating of 128 with a 28% usage rate.

formerly sbulls

by Scotter on Jun 5, 2008 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup, good points

There seems to be little question that Rose improved considerably during the season, and your analysis helps to highlight that not only did he get better, but his improvement is especially impressive and more significant because it greatly occurred against superior competition. Great work.

I guess I still have more questions…I’d love to see a list of players who experienced comparable growth during the year, or similar high-competition/low-competition splits, and study their subsequent development to understand if this difference is something that has any predictive value. I suspect it does, but I’m not one to leap to conclusions without empirical evidence. Hopefully somebody in the Bulls organization has been assigned the task to perform such analyses and to help inform the chief decision-maker (which, based on recent evidence, may be Reinsdorf and not Paxson…ugh).

Another great difference to help indicate that the attitude of the Memphis team was not of the Fab Five ilk is that the team only lost 2 games, and was 2 possessions away from going undefeated. Had the entire team let up during the “games to be endured”, their record would reflect this, and I see nothing in their record to indicate that this is the case.

One of my favorite stories about Chris Paul in the months leading up to his rookie season is that he was playing in a big-time pickup game with a bunch of major NBA players, and that his team won every game, which earned him massive respect among the players in attendance. While fans and the media often misallocate credit and blame for winning and losing – providing too much credit to poor players on good teams and too much blame for good players on bad teams – given the difficulty of considering all that creates value for a basketball player, in certain instances looking at team success or failure can provide some insight into the individual players. And in this instance one of the things that really draws me to Derrick Rose is that his team was two possessions away from not losing a single game.

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on Jun 5, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think the difference is that odd

When you’re the best scorer on a dominant team, there’s no reason to light up the box score every night. Rose had plenty of teammates who could score, and it makes sense to spread the ball around against a weaker opponent.

Kobe Bryant took 19.3 shots per game in wins, 23.6 shots per game in losses (presumably, Lakers games were a lot closer when they lost than when they won).

by YaoPau on Jun 5, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

unfortunately for that claim

Douglas-Roberts was a superior scorer by every conceivable metric.

by JSlakov on Jun 5, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Paxson & BaB

Have someone emailed this to Pax?
Yao Pau – Scotter in “08 !

"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Jun 5, 2008 3:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The main reason....

why Rose numbers probably dont look as good against worst competition is maybe due to the fact that Memphis was blowing out that team in the first half and Rose didnt play as many minutes as he would’ve against better comp ya dig

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 5, 2008 8:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but his RATE statistics were poor as well

So it’s not like he was playing great in shorter minutes. See the discussion thread above for continued analysis of the reasons behind the difference.

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on Jun 5, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Paul and Deron Williams college stats...

Chris Paul-14.8pts and 5.9 assists(freshman yr)

Deron Williams-6.3 pts and 4.3 assists(freshman yr)

Derrick Rose-14.9 and 4.7 assist

no point being made just a chance to see the stats of the people d rose is being compared to ya dig

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 5, 2008 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I haven't done anything formal or posted it here...

But I’ve done a lot of analysis of Rose’s college stats to a number of other top point guards’ college stats – including Paul, Williams, and Jason Kidd and Kenny Anderson as well. I’ve also compared his stats to Dwyane Wade’s at Marquette.

You really need to “dig” a lot deeper into the stats than just points and assists, as the posters above have done here. The thing is – there’s nothing 100% conclusive in these stats, and a lot of the pro-Rose sentiment (including mine) has to do with his natural ability that isn’t clearly evident from his statistical line. Which I suppose is why I haven’t bothered to post any of it…there’s nothing conclusive that really adds to the narrative here.

For example, Rose’s Pure Point Ratio last year was 1.63, whereas Jason Kidd’s PPR as a Freshman at Cal was 3.90 (!!!) – which should really kill off that silly analogy – but Dwyane Wade’s was at -2.42 as a Freshman at Marquette. Rose’s overall stats do not measure up to Paul’s (much better shooter) or Kidd’s or even Kenny Anderson’s at Georgia Tech (also – shockingly – much better 3pt shooting numbers), but they’re better than Deron Williams’ at Illinois (whose stats were surprisingly mediocre, although from watching games it was obvious he was a fantastic player).

So the Williams context may be best, in that Williams played on a very talented team that may have suppressed his college statistics. I dunno. Anyhow, I have taken/wasted the time to analyze Rose’s college stats versus similar (top-5 NBA drafted) point guards, and all it does is confuse matters further.

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on Jun 5, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kenny Anderson: great, great college player; nba head case.

He was fun to watch. Super quick, but feather light. One of the stories about him is that he never regained the full measure of his on-court bravado after a John Starks flagrant foul put him out for the season.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Jun 5, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was a better NBA player than I recalled...

I looked up his stats, and was shocked. He made only 1 All-Star team, but had a PER in the high teens for a few years before I believe injuries ruined his effectiveness. It’s crazy how many factual errors there are in our memories/recollections!

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on Jun 5, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In the case of Williams

He was playing with Dee Brown so that might of been why his numbers were so low in his freshman season

by D-rose on Jun 5, 2008 1:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

All that seems to be decided here is that Rose isn't so bad an offensive player

Shouldnt he be an elite player? Doesnt have a great jump shot, assist totals, steals, ... and now he looks to be on the small size physically. What does he actually bring? He seems to be entirely a press/media relations creation now.

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jun 5, 2008 6:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

memphis coming from one miracle 3 from winning the NCAA tourney was a press creation, as was his 21pt 6ass, 6 reb tourney avg, his domination of Neitzel, Collinson, and Augustin, the ratings of NBA scouts and all our own eyes. Pure media fantasy.

by DangerMouse on Jun 5, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're right

Rose is just a product of the media’s creative imagination, carefully constructed by David Stern, Myles Brand, and the boys at Bristol.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 5, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's really not that good...lol

after winning 2 state titles back to back in high school, being an all-american in high school, leading a team that didn’t get past the elite 8 the past few years to the national championship game, diminating a number of the nations top guards on the defensive and offensive ends of the ball in the process. he’s not really that good. do you watch basketball or do you just like to blog.

by FUTURE12 on Jun 5, 2008 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think they just like to blog....

clearly Rose is the best guard to come out of college since D Williams and CP3…the media hype is there because he is a local kid….he will be damn good especially after a yr or two of experience

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 6, 2008 8:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Reading the tea leaves

It’s so hard to try and project what these guys will do in the pros. Listening to Doug’s podcasts (really good btw) it seems like there is little you can take from a player’s offensive record because college offenses operate in such a different manner (easier to carry defense/rebounding over from college). None of these guys have ever played on teams with as much talent as they’ll see in the NBA. They’ve both have ridiculous bball resumes, which is why I think it’ll come down to Pax et al. sitting across a table from them and measuring them up.

by OldSkoolSloan on Jun 6, 2008 8:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

OldSkool, I disagree...

I think the forecasting models which use college statistics and demographic information (height, weight, etc.) do a fantastic job at projecting NBA ability, particularly at weeding out many players who are eventually identified as draft “busts”. The key is to consider them in the proper context, alongside all sorts of other information (primarily scouting information) to inform your decision-making.

I think the problem is that it is hard to project what Derrick Rose will do in the pros, as his statistics may be disproportionately influenced by the offensive and defensive styles employed by Memphis, in addition to a possible lack of offensive aggression on his part in games that were easy wins for his team. But for most players, I think that a lot can be learned from an in-depth study of their college performance; in this case, I see Rose as an outlier in the data.

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on Jun 6, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a Rose fan but

I do see one problem – his defense is actually pretty overrated. I just watched the games against UCLA and Texas, and multiple times he got blown by. He’ll have a lot of defensive adjustment to do in the NBA…and that lateral quickness has me a bit worried.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Jun 6, 2008 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think many are calling him a great defender

Almost every draft website has said he has to work on his defensive fundamentals. If that’s a weakness in his game, so be it, but that’s something that is easily curable if a player has a strong will to improve on defense and is put in a system that actively promotes strong defensive play. Bigger guards will give him grief, like Deron, Billups, or Andre Miller, but overall he’s quick and athletic enough to be a solid NBA defender.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 6, 2008 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just 'cause he's not especially tall doesn't mean he's not a big point guard.

The guy is built like a truck. He out-muscled almost every guard he played against this year, aside from OJ Mayo. Just look what he did to the likes of Augustin and Collison. He completely dismantled both of them.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jun 9, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but in his rookie season

You think he will hold his own against a beefy Deron Williams entering his 4th NBA season? I mean I have high hopes for Rose, but I’m just keeping it realistic.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 9, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course he'll struggle at first against guys like Deron.

I’m just talking about his career as a whole. He’ll be one of the stronger PGs in the league for years to come. Strength is one of his attributes that I’ve always felt is overlooked. Not only is he ridiculously explosive, but he’s very well-built (hence the J-Kidd and Deron comparisons).

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jun 9, 2008 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's true.

His strength and explosiveness is what ultimately sets him apart from average pg prospects. It enables him to get to the rim and finish like few point guards can.

by swede2287 on Jun 12, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah

the draft websites do mention his defense, but what I’m saying is, those games gave me pause. He got bailed out a few times by the length and shot blocking behind him. Again: I’m a Rose supporter, want him running the show for years to come. But – it’s gonna take a few years before we have an elite point.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Jun 10, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great link on statistical evaluation of the draft's point guard (including Rose)

Evaluating-this-year-s-Point-Guard-Crop-2919/” target=”_blank”>http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-by-the-Numbers-Evaluating-this-year-s-Point-Guard-Crop-2919/

by swede2287 on Jun 16, 2008 10:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I though this was kind of disappointing.

They didn’t even pace adjust the statistics, and didn’t use the best statistics.

formerly sbulls

by Scotter on Jun 16, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was a nice idea...

but its a tough picture to paint with college statistics.

I did notice for their analysis of shooting guards – that Courtney Lee was the top SG in many statistical categories. I’d love him at our 2nd round pick.

by swede2287 on Jun 16, 2008 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought Courtney Lee really stood out in the tournament.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Jun 17, 2008 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you see...

...one of my fabled 7’10” 80% 3-pt SG guards in Chase Budinger pulled out?

by tyger1147 on Jun 17, 2008 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought of you there.

Maybe next year he’ll be top 5.

But Rush stayed in and his stock seems to be rising.

I still wouldn’t mind seeing the Bulls attempt a deal to re-enter the middle or lower end of the lottery to get a shot at Rush…and I think Lee will be moving up now, too—based on that mass work-out in San Francisco over the weekend.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Jun 17, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm replacing my list of SG's from..

...Budinger (he had the most scoring potential, imo), Rush and Lee to Rush, Lee and Shan Foster. Foster didn’t help himself in the pre-draft camps, but for the season: 47% on 8.4 3ptFGA per game? Holy poop. If the Bulls think it likely that Gordon will be leaving, they’ll need to get a 3pt shooter. Foster would likely be available in the 2nd round. It’s doubtful he’ll end up much, but one never knows.

BTW, I e-mailed draft express after the first day of March Madness, asking if they thought Rush’s stock would rise w/ the tournament and his athletic ability displayed at pre-draft camps. They didn’t think so. After the tourney, he didn’t move much (one dominating performance would have been nice), but his athletic ability is really intriguing. I think w/ him, he’s a shot of confidence and aggressive mentality and a heavy dose of ball-handling away from being a top-notch, 2nd-tier NBA player. Those first two things, though, are hard to change once someone gets to the NBA, so it’s unlikely they’ll develop. But still….

by tyger1147 on Jun 17, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Batum is also someone I'm interested in.

But at this point, I think he’s too much of a risk and doesn’t fit the needs of the Bulls to justify trading back into the 1st round for. Although his skillset seems ideal for someone to pair w/ Rose for the next few years.

If the Bulls were near completely bare, I’d definitely consider that experiment.

by tyger1147 on Jun 17, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chad Ford isn't as confident we're taking Rose.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-080617

It is what it is.

by swede2287 on Jun 17, 2008 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

At pick # 8

This comment had me cracking up.

“That leaves Alexander, a high-energy forward who impressed Hammond and new head coach Scott Skiles with his toughness and grit. Alexander is still a work in progress, but if he figures things out he has a chance to be really special.”

by kingj41 on Jun 18, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs