Simmons v. Ford: The Great Draft Debate of '08
by bulls*hit
on Jun 24, 2008 5:27 PM CDT
So Bill Simmons and Chad Ford are at it again (to see last year's debate, click here.). They start off the debate with whom they think will go #1 (both are Rose, btw), which brings them to recollect their Durant/Oden #1 pick from last year and start babbling on and on about, philosophically, why they would choose Durant/Oden and Rose/Beasley.
Here's a small excerpt from The Great Debate:
Simmons:
"I backed Durant for three reasons: I thought he had a chance to become a truly dominant offensive player; I thought Oden was too nice of a guy; and I thought Oden was headed for a career of health problems."
Ford:
Given your reasoning on Durant ... shouldn't Beasley be the No. 1 pick? He's the "truly dominant offensive player," while Rose is the "nice guy." And neither player has a history of injuries. Shouldn't Beasley be the guy, given that thinking?
Simmons:
I disagree -- Rose has a chance to be a dominant player on both ends, whereas Beasley would only be dominant on one end.
Eh, it's not that great, but i couldn't copy/paste the whole argument here... Well I think it's worth reading, watching these two say really bizarre things:
Simmons:
Hey Chad, Tell Me How My A-- Tastes.
Ford:
That is the sickest thing I've ever read. I can't believe you wrote that. And by the way, like candy.
ok.... a bit too much info.
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
0 recs |
35
comments
Email
PrintComments
my favorite portion of the debate, read the last sentence...
Pick No. 8: Milwaukee Bucks
Chad Ford selects: Joe Alexander, West Virginia
“Joe Alexander is the hottest name in the draft, which terrifies me. Every year teams try to “win the draft” by clawing over themselves to get the hot guy. This year that guy is Alexander.
He’s got CRAZY athleticism. He’s a maniac in workouts. He’ll try to dunk on anyone. In terms of intensity, Alexander is Scott Skiles’ “mini-me.” You don’t know whether to be afraid or in awe.
But then you get him in a game and the guy doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing. It’s guaranteed Alexander joins Tyrus Thomas in the “I wish that guy knew how to play” fantasy discussion for years.”
Ha!
by leeac on Jun 24, 2008 7:38 PM CDT 0 recs
I loved how Simmons got called out on his Corey Brewer love
Scottie Pippen comparisons died with Robert Horry.
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 24, 2008 8:09 PM CDT 0 recs
I liked this
Simmons: Here’s my question: Ultimately, where does Beasley take you? We just watched the 2008 Celtics win the title with defense. In fact, the past 20 NBA champions were either very good defensive teams or great defensive teams, dating back to the ‘89 Pistons and going right down the line. Beasley is a superb scorer and rebounder, but from what I’ve seen, he doesn’t give you anything else—he’s the kind of guy who puts up a 27-12 and gives up a 26-11 on the other end. He doesn’t seem to have any leadership qualities whatsoever. Do you honestly see him leading an NBA champion some day?
by YaoPau on Jun 24, 2008 8:48 PM CDT 0 recs
2 points
As Ford pointed out many times, Simmons reasoning makes no sense considering his love for Durant.
I don’t get the “he’s the kind of guy who puts up a 27-12 and gives up a 26-11 on the other end.” I mean, I get the points part, but rebounds are basically zero-sum. If one guy is getting a ton, he is keeping his opponent from getting as many.
by JeffD on
Jun 24, 2008 9:24 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Yeah the rebounds comment is not particularly valid
But I get what he’s saying about scoring.
And Simmons’ opinions are just based on his “feelings.” Chad Ford watches NCAA basketball nonstop, Simmons watched Durant because he had a mancrush on him, and watches the tourney like any schmo because he gambles a lot. His point about defense was right, but there’s no indication Rose is going to be an All-Team defensive player, that’s an area of the game he has to work on just as much as Beasley. It’s the giving a crap that Beasley needs to work on.
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 24, 2008 9:39 PM CDT
up
0 recs
To be honest, the more I read about Beasley...
I really DO think he gives a crap. He’s aspiring to be the best there is, and it sounds to me like he’s in the gym 24/7. Who cares if he likes to have fun sometimes. The dude means serious business when he’s on the court. Reading about how he hit the gym till 3am after a loss at Kansas in which he dropped 39 points in 23 minutes was pretty impressive. Real boneheads don’t do that shit.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 24, 2008 9:46 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I view Beasley as ultru-competitive.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 24, 2008 9:59 PM CDT
up
0 recs
ultra?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 24, 2008 10:01 PM CDT
up
0 recs
The other thing - has this guy ever been in trouble with the law?
No, right? Legal concerns are much more telling than goofball pranks and immaturity stories in my opinion.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 24, 2008 9:47 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Both of Illini15s posts are good...
After hearing the kid (yes, he’s still a kid) and watching him on film, he does want to be the best player he can be. He seems to be a gym rat. Those audio breakdowns that were posted a week ago made it clear that it looked like Beasley works on his game a ton in the gym. His jumpshot is smooth and textbook (or at least as textbook a left hander can make it…), his ability to determine where rebounds will be, and his handles shows that he’s worked on his game on his own a lot.
However, it’s the team game that is a bit weak. His passing isn’t that great, but they say his passing out of double teams is getting better. His defense is lacking, but how can you practice defense if you’re the only one in the gym? He isn’t that good in man defense, but he is great on the weak side and playing the passing lanes. If you are good at those, they aren’t that much of a gamble. People look at his steals and figure he’ll be foul prone, but his steals are from passing lanes and not reaching in…
I actually think he’s a bit funny, in a Shaq sort of way (well, maybe not “how does my ass taste” way, but more of a breakdance at the all-star game way). His comments about him shrinking, being a midget, having the NBA have a height requirement, and his takeouts from the ESPN spots that’ll be airing in commercials and during draft night are hilarious.
While the media will love to see Rose come to his hometown, they’ll be missing out on countless gold sound bytes. Imagine his comments about Noah and his stash, Aaron Gray arguing over play time, and Duhon not setting his alarm right.
He hasn’t been busted for knocking up chicks and disowning the kids, possession of anything (guns, drugs, or open alcohol), or urinating in public. All of the previous examples have been problems with Chicago teams.
Compared to them, Beasley is a saint.
by Syxx on
Jun 24, 2008 10:03 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Your last 2 paragraphs hit the nail on the head.
Good work.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 24, 2008 10:13 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Real good comments, but...
...I see too many references to Beasley’s pranks being harmless and not close to the transgressions involving “guns, drugs or open alcohol”. If a player doesn’t realize that his character is poorly reflected by attending numerous high schools or partaking in numerous pranks that get him in trouble – no matter how minor – then there’s something wrong. And when he states, “how mature do you want me to be at 19?” He must know that for $10MM guarenteed in year one, most GMs and owners will say, “pretty frickn’ mature.”
by EdNealy on
Jun 25, 2008 1:23 PM CDT
up
0 recs
"Tell me how my ass tastes."
Has got to be the most unexpected comment to make it onto 2 mainstream websites in one day.
Its also in this article, which references a fight Rose got into with a Memphis football player over a girl. The counter-point article also references it, along with this bizarre innuendo:
But what that story shows me is that Rose was willing to sacrifice his body to take it to the rack, comfortable laying it on the line to drive to the hole, determined to grab what he wanted even if it belonged to somebody else, and aren’t those the very characteristics that make great point guards great?
by JeffD on Jun 24, 2008 9:52 PM CDT 0 recs
I thought it was...
his great ability to penetrate then finish that made his special…
That’s how my ass tastes, hehehe
by Syxx on
Jun 24, 2008 10:09 PM CDT
up
0 recs
not my words
but rather the girl’s.
Had to clarify, heh.
by Syxx on
Jun 24, 2008 10:10 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I agree on the edit button thing. But, alas, BaB is not a message board.
For better or for worse, I guess.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 24, 2008 10:12 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Blog and general comment sections...
tend to allow edits though.
It’s serviceable, if a little annoying though…
by Syxx on
Jun 24, 2008 10:27 PM CDT
up
0 recs
as far as saying goes...
tell me how my ass taste > f*ck ur couch
by Belize on
Jun 25, 2008 8:55 PM CDT
up
0 recs
gross.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 25, 2008 8:59 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Simmons was quoting Shaq. Not sure why the thread starter made it look like that was a Simmons original.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 24, 2008 10:12 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Agreed.
However, Fords “And by the way, like candy.” is the real lol-inducer.
I think Chad Ford is one of ESPN’s best contributors. He’s quick witted, definitely in the loop (he was the first to break the Wallace to the Cavs deal), and knows basketball on seemingly all levels.
by Syxx on
Jun 24, 2008 10:29 PM CDT
up
0 recs
That candy comment was super-awkward and
a pretty terrible attempt at humor. Although for whatever reason, Ford usually holds his own against Simmons. I must give him props for that.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Jun 24, 2008 10:40 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I know it was a Shaq quote
but I still thought it was odd that it made it into 2 mainstream columns, out of context.
by JeffD on
Jun 25, 2008 8:13 AM CDT
up
0 recs
i think this one was from last yr...lol
9. CHICAGO BULLSBill Simmons selects: Joakim Noah, PF, Florida
This has to be the easiest pick of the draft: Joakim Noah.
If they re-sign P.J. Brown, that gives them one of the deepest 4/5 groups in the league (Noah, Brown, Wallace and Thomas), and opens the door for them to move Wallace down the road if they want to use his contract to acquire a big-money guy (Kobe, KG, Pierce, whomever). I also thought the Bulls were a little too business-like last year. It killed them in the Detroit series. They have too many lead-by-example guys and stoic guys … Noah would solve that problem right away. Imagine the energy of a group with Noah, Thomas, Deng, Gordon and Hinrich?
You know what else is interesting? Noah would have been the first or second pick in last year’s draft … so basically, the Bulls would end up with two of the top three from the 2006 draft for the right not to pay Eddy Curry way too much money. Thank you, Isiah!
Yeah it got us the # 1 pick!!!!
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on Jun 25, 2008 8:15 AM CDT 0 recs
but that wasn't Noah's fault
that was the right pick.
by DangerMouse on
Jun 25, 2008 9:22 PM CDT
up
0 recs
i didnt say it was Noahs fault....look at this line...
Imagine the energy of a group with Noah, Thomas, Deng, Gordon and Hinrich?and this line…..
If they re-sign P.J. Brown, that gives them one of the deepest 4/5 groups in the league (Noah, Brown, Wallace and Thomas), and opens the door for them to move Wallace down the road if they want to use his contract to acquire a big-money guy (Kobe, KG, Pierce, whomever).
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on
Jun 26, 2008 7:58 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Chad Ford on ESPN
“Some of the guys who are a little more experiencedER”...
Really? ExperiencedER??... Wow
Another guy managed to say that “their offense was offensively challenged”
I just have heaps and heaps of respect for these people…
Friggin Neanderthals… Gah!
by BAB-Bass on Jun 25, 2008 11:09 AM CDT 0 recs
Ohh, and what's with ESPN and their man-crush on Beasley??
“The Beasley sweepstakes” as a major headline.
And then “Mike Beasley – the Rookie part 3” !?
As if there are no other players in the draft!
Gah!
I’ll calm down after draft night… I think…
by BAB-Bass on Jun 25, 2008 11:12 AM CDT 0 recs
He's the most charismatic person in the draft
Why wouldn’t they increase his exposure?
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 25, 2008 11:19 AM CDT
up
0 recs
They're basically doing his agents' job
I have a problem with that. If you don’t, fine.
Guess I have this naive ideal that media coverage should be balanced and neutral…
by BAB-Bass on Jun 25, 2008 11:39 AM CDT 0 recs
Well since media coverage hasn't been balanced in some years
Yeah, you’re naive.
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 25, 2008 11:46 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Simmons got his ass handed to him.
The Durant debate, the Brewer stuff, the cognitive dissonance argument, not to mention the Shaq argument. Ford seemed to take the kid gloves off and showed that he is just the more clever and more astute pundit of the two.
by McCabe on Jun 25, 2008 6:53 PM CDT 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
New FanPost
