Can We/Should We Trade for another top ten pick?

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 11:55 AM CDT

There has been a lot of talk about trades with the Miami Heat that might net us the 2nd overall pick in the draft. But most experts agree that we would have to give up the #1, to get the #2 plus a few players.

Does anybody think it's possible to get the #3 pick from the Timberwolves without giving up Rose (#1)?

It seems the Woves have needs everywhere except Power Forward. They aren't particularly thrilled with either Sebastian Teltfair, Corey Brewer, or Randy Foye.

The trade machine hasn't been updated since last year, so it's hard to figure out how to make the numbers work, but I think we have some attractive pieces (Hinrich, Tyrus, Gooden, Re-Signed Gordon, Nocioni...

WIth the 3rd pick, we would get either OJ Mayo (who I think would be great with Rose) or Beasley (who I think would be great with Rose)

I know they would love to get rid of Antoine Walker... he is a Chicago guy, maybe he would be so thrilled to be back home that he would stop jacking so many bad shots, cause right now, he is Nocioni without the passion... and that's not a compliment...

What do you think? There are alot of teams said to be looking to trade in the top ten, should we target one of them?

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oooh...

I can see it now…
Hughes, Nocioni and Walker…Chucker City!!!

Oh lord, I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth.

Step 1 - Win lottery. Step 2 - Hire a coach. Step 3 - Win.

by Lt.Dan on Jun 24, 2008 11:58 AM CDT reply actions

Not to mention..

Flopper City. Though Hughes prefers to overplay on steals and get completely out of the play…

by Syxx on Jun 24, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Remember that play this year,

I think it was vs. the Hornets…CP3 took one coast to coast. In the midst of this, Hughes made one of the worst attempts ever at a steal at midcourt and then just stood there flat-footed as CP3 took it in for a layup. It was one of the most pathetic/unreal (depends how you want to look at it) displays of a pure lack of effort that I’ve ever seen.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jun 24, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions

That sounds about right....

I don’t remember that play, but it certainly sounds like Hughes. I’m often more dissapointed when he actually gets a steal that way, because then I know he is going for the steal everytime, and that his player is going to drive to the basket all night.

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions

Doubt the TWolves would do it without getting Tyrus in return

Assuming Beasley and Rose are gone, there’s no one in the draft worth giving up Tyrus.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jun 24, 2008 12:06 PM CDT reply actions

actually...

I would give up TT for the 3 even if Rose and Beasley were gone.

I realize that Tyrus has tremendous potential, and that I’m commiting blogabull blashphemy by not loving him unconditionally… but , he has yet to do much in this league. Sure, some players get a lot better after their 2nd year, but most don’t. Most get a little better each year, and then they peak, and get a little worse for the last half of their careers.
Plus, I think Gooden is a good player, and he can and should be resigned to a reasonable contract.

But, with that said, I would rather send Nocioni and Hinrich for the #3 and Walker. Then buy out Walker.

I like Mayo’s game alot, and I like his attitude. He seems to be the good kind of cocky. And I think he has a strong drive to suceed. He fits a need for our team, and he would free us up to sign and trade BG for the best value.

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Then where would Gordon, Thabo, and Hughes play.....

if u found a way to get of Hughes then maybe…. it would be crazy if we did that and Miami did get Mayo( i highly doubt it) and we got Beasely too….im so tired of talkin bout the possibilities!!(im just so excited dat we are in this position!!!) lets get done with the draft and c what happens!!

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 24, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Gordon is hopefully a sign and trade if we get Mayo, or he signs the qualifying offer and plays as the sixth man all year.

Or, he starts with Derrick Rose, and we bring Hinrich and Mayo off the bench.

Thabo plays as the fifth guard, but would also plenty of minutes at small forward in VDN’s up tempo offense. Becuase if we send Nocioni to Minny, there wil be plenty of minutes available there.

And Hughes finishes the season with 82 DNP’s (Did Not Play, Coaches Decision)

Noah, Gray
Gooden, Walker
Deng, Thabo
Gordon, Mayo, Hughes
Rose, Hinrich

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions

easier said....

than done….u dont sit a guy making 13MIL for 82 games…wasnt hinrich in your trade for the pick…and i would rather see Thabo at the 2 than the 3…our team is already the youngest in the league i dnt think u wanna add two 19 yr olds to the mix…i would rather draft Rose and pick up a veteran or two via trade or fa

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 24, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't think John Paxon cares...

... how much Hughes makes, he is only here cause we wanted to get rid of The Corpse.

Hinrich was one of the attractive pieces that I said we had, but I wasn’t set on trading him, I was really thinking out loud (in type?) ... and either way, if he was the piece to get moved, that just means Thabo or Mayo plays some point.

I would rather see Thabo at the 2 then the three, but if our backcourt is loaded and jammed up, then he can play more minutes if he also plays the three, which would help him develop. And the positions aren’t that different offensively in an uptempo offense, and Thabo has the defensive ability to cover the other teams three, so I think thats fine.

And yeah, we’re already the youngest team, but I also think we should seek players that will peak at the same time as Rose. For example, I like Elton Brand, but if we trade for him, he might be declining when Rose is peaking.

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions

i think adding veterans will help Rose develop quicker than a team filled with 19-25 yr olds

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 24, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions

You mean like...

Joe Smith helped Tyrus Thomas?
Or Ben Wallace helped Noah?

or Ben Wallace helped anyone?

I don’t mine veterans, but I want Drew Gooded types: friendly contract, reliable game, good attitude.

Not, for example, Tracy McGrady types: Huge Contract, Injury Issues, Entitlement Minutes.

I also don’t want having veterens to stop us from acquiring young talent to grow and develop together. I think a 19 year old Rose and a 20 year old Mayo sounds great for the next 15 years.

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions

I dont mean old and bad veterans(ie Adrian Griffin)....

i mean some productive veteran players ….PJ Brown helped TT his rookie yr not only on tips on the floor but how to make the adjustment to the NBA life…and Joe Smith was arguably the Bulls best/most consistent player before he was traded

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 25, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions

sure then...

But adding those type of players shouldn’t stop you from adding a second promising rookie player.

Oj Mayo is twenty. And he is very talented, are you telling me you wouldn’t take him because the rest of our team is young and kind of talented?

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions

yep!

i’m lookin at it from Paxsons point of view…if we could somehow get rid of Kirk and Hughes no problem but i seriously doubt it…a backcourt of Mayo and Rose could be deadly in a few yrs but i really doubt i could happen

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 25, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions

Walker makes enough to get rid of either Hinrich or Noce, not both

If the Bulls could get rid of both for expiring contracts, it might be worth pursuing.

Tyrus has produced when actually given minutes. If his time w/ Thorpe pays off and VDN is as committed to development as he says he is, this would be the worst possible time to give up on the Tyrus Thomas experiment.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jun 24, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, Thorpe...

Thorpe is notoriously a fan of all his clients. He talks about every player he works with like they are the best in the world.

But, I have to admit, the particular things he has said about TT this offseason have me intrigued.

So, I would like to keep TT, but I think if it were a choice between him and the #3, I’d make that trade.

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions

That's true

but I appreciate the fact that he’s honest about it.

He’ll say, “I like this guy,” and then right away add,”of course, keep in mind he’s a client.”

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on Jun 24, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions

yeah...

He only works with clients he believes in, I like that. But then you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt.
I do think he’s smart though, because the things he focuses on with his players always seem to be very helpful and specific to those players, and not just run of the mill conditioning.

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions

True...

You’re right about the numbers, I thought Walker made more. But I would probably do it with Noc & TT to acquire the 3 and a bad contract. Especially if the bad contract is a shorter term than Nocioni’s deal.

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions

OJ Mayo

This is what Chad Ford said today about Mayo…

He’s the type of versatile player who can play both backcourt positions, hit jump shots and play stifling defense on the perimeter.

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm intrigued by a Rose/Mayo backcourt

Mayo seems like he might be a nice combination of the good points of Kirk and Ben. The frontcourt, though, would be decimated, leaving Gooden and Noah as the only serviceable bigs. A sign and trade is too difficult to pull off hoping to fill a need by moving Gordon somewhere.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jun 24, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah...

I think you would pretty much have to trade Kirk or Nocioni at that point, to bring back a big. If we’re going to play uptempo, in the east, we can get away with small ball, but we definitely would need some frontcourt depth.

If we keep Nocioni, he can play mostly the 4, or we could let Antoine Walker play there a bit. And Thabo would get the minutes at the reserve 3.

Maybe in a few months we trade Kirk and Thabo for Marion.

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions

NO WALKER!!!!!!!!! He is old and bad!!!!

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 24, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions

lol

totally agree. i hate walker and his dumb crybaby face.

by Jaina on Jun 24, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Remember when Paul Pierce called Walker the biggest jacker of all time…

I’m not trying to pretend he is good. Just saying, Minny wants to get rid of him, and we might be able to take the #3 if we are also willing to take Walker.

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions

yeah but

you actually suggested possibly playing him… :)

by Jaina on Jun 25, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions

Right...

But that’s cause I didn’t want the idea to turn into speculation about which player we would trade for after we nabbed the #3 and Walker.

Obviously I would want to make a trade and bring in a forward, and either buy out Walker, or sit his ass on the bench next to Hughes.

He is not good.

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions

I think the idea is good on principle if Beasley is there...

As much as I LOVE Rose I would LOVE for the Bulls to have Beast, too. But I really don’t think Miami is going to pass on Beast bc even if they don’t want him, he is valued as one of the top two and obviously that means you take him and try to get more than just a swap of picks for him. They’ll hold him for ransom, if not keep him (for at least a yr). And I don’t think they’re going to trade him to us for less than a king’s ransom and and signed waiver promising to not go after Wade in 2010:)

You bring up a good discussion pt in Mayo though. Does anyone who has really seen him play alot in college believe he’s that great? Because I’ve only seen him on nat’l TV and he never ever impressed me one bit. Just curious if anyone loves him.

by smash! on Jun 24, 2008 12:37 PM CDT reply actions

i agree

the heat take beasley in a heartbeat and play him alongside marion this year. that’s a lot of offense from 3 players.

by leeac on Jun 24, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Only target the #3 if B-Easy is still on the board (but he won't be).

and anything the Bulls have that would be worth offering (i.e. Deng) can’t be done until July. What I think may happen is that Miami takes B-Easy and then tries to move him in July. Maybe then the Bulls can swoop in and offer a package involving Deng, Hinrich, and Gooden for B-Easy and Blount’s contract. I don’t think this will happen, but I’d move Deng in a heartbeat for Beastly. Less than a heartbeat.

by messwiththebull on Jun 24, 2008 12:43 PM CDT reply actions

What about the #5?

In the Ford/Simmons Mock, Chad Ford seems to think Memphis is offering the fifth overall pick for anyone willing to take on Cardinal’s contract. It’s probably not that simple, but should the Bulls trade Gooden and next year’s Top-3 protected pick for Cardinal and this year’s #5? They’d be drafting from the likes of Gallinari, Bayless, Gordon, Lopez, Alexander, Westbrook….

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2008 1:38 PM CDT reply actions

I like that idea

but I also think that packaging Gooden with a future first rounder could bring back a potentially better player from a team at the trade deadline than what would be available at #5.

"Me like to shoot much" - Andres Nocioni

by BNeL21 on Jun 24, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Good point.

I do like the idea (maybe), of drafting Gordon and Rose-making BG a valuable trading piece-however it would work.

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Did you mean Mayo and Rose?

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Oh, I get it now.

You meant Eric Gordon and Rose, and then trading Ben Gordon… Sorry.

There’s too many Gordon’s in this convo.

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions

That's not terrible idea...

But I think if we drafted at 5 we would be looking for a center, and I don’t see one at 5 that I would start over Noah.

And I think Gooden is worth more than a rookie back-up center.

If we could trade Nocioni for Brian Cardinal and the #5 I might do that.

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Now there's a thought

At number 5 you could try and shore up the C spot, or try and get Westbrook as kind of a backup combo guard (that’s probably the last thing the Bulls need, but I would love to see Westbrook and Rose play together.)

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 24, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions

No way Memphis would do this, is there?

Trade Machine says yes. (The link wouldn’t work)

Gooden and the 2009 Top-3 Protected 1st-round choice (and cash compensation?)

-FOR-

the draft rights to Marc Gasol, Brian Cardinal and the #5?

Holy young’uns Batman!

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions

Trade Exception?

Is there a way to use our trade exception to trade for a draft pick?

by kidronmusic on Jun 24, 2008 2:46 PM CDT reply actions

Only if the pick is combined with a player

That’s how Seattle got Kurt Thomas from the Suns. They sent Phoenix their trade exception and got back Thomas + at least 2 1st rd picks.

Trade exception to the Grizzlies for Brian Cardinal + #5 would work, but I highly doubt Memphis would bite.

"Me like to shoot much" - Andres Nocioni

by BNeL21 on Jun 24, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions

it's a good idea

but Cardinal makes $6.2m, and the Bulls’ exception is for $5.2m.

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 24, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions

I used the trade machine at ESPN to get the figure which was 5.85 mil.

damn pay raises!! But still, 5.2 million X 125% = 6.5 million, so unless I’m misinterpreting the rule, we should be able to pull that off. Does the 125% rule not apply when using trade exceptions? (I’m not being a smartass, I honestly don’t know).

"Me like to shoot much" - Andres Nocioni

by BNeL21 on Jun 24, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions

that's a good question

, but it’s not that clear.

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 24, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions

meant to include this link

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#69

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 24, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Looks like a no-go

Thanks for the link.

"Me like to shoot much" - Andres Nocioni

by BNeL21 on Jun 24, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Is Memphis just the Wal-Mart of teams attempting to improve?

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 24, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions

More like K-Mart

if you couldn’t tell from the Blue Light Special they had back in December.

"Me like to shoot much" - Andres Nocioni

by BNeL21 on Jun 24, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Memphis is trying to get Beasley...

If Beasley is on the same team as Rudy Gay, they should at least have some entertaining games to watch next year.

The Grizzlies have a huge hole at the power forward position (since trading away Pau Gasol) and see Beasley as an elite talent to pair up with Rudy Gay.

The Grizzlies can offer a number of deals that could entice Miami. They could include the No. 5 pick, Mike Miller and the Heat’s choice of either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley. Adding Miller and a point guard would allow the Heat to be very flexible with who they draft at No. 5. They could add another guard like Bayless or they could go big with a player like Brook Lopez or Kevin Love.

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions

Where in the world is Ben Gordon?

He’s mentioned once in this whole topic?

Ben Gordon said drafting another guard would crowd the backcourt. What does he say if he draft two guards?

We need to avoid the message that the team is running Ben Gordon out of town while we don’t even have him under contract. We must get value out of Gordon and frankly we need him now more than ever if we draft Rose.

by NBA Observer on Jun 24, 2008 3:56 PM CDT reply actions

Ummm Yeah....

I figure if we have the opportunity to get Mayo, then we let Ben take his desire to be overpaid to another team. As I said, ideally in a sign and trade.

Which might be feasable because there aren’t many teams with cap room out there. Otherwise, he signs the QO and Starts for us with Mayo coming off the bench, then next year Ben is a UFA and Mayo starts.

I like Ben, and I do think his shooting would have value here, but I also think that he thinks he is worth a lot more than he is.

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions

How about trading for someone who can take over a game?

T-Mac? Couldn’t cost that much to pick him up…imagine him taking alley-oops from Rose

by POSEYHATER on Jun 24, 2008 6:06 PM CDT reply actions

T-Mac is making 18 million a year

I thought we were done with all the McGrady trade scenarios.

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 24, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Seriously. What's the obsession with this guy when we're this far away from a championship?

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jun 24, 2008 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Boston...

was pretty far away from a championship too (didn’t they have one of the three worst records last year?) until they opened the bank for some talent. In one year’s time they win the Championship. I don’t think Chicago is that far off, as long as we could get an All-Star. We have good players, but none that can make an All-Star team….ugh

by POSEYHATER on Jun 25, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions

Boston was a completely different scenario

Their trade for KG was lopsided as hell, it would be like if the Bulls offered Minnesota Deng, Aaron Gray, Ben Wallace, and Chris Duhon.

They already had an All-Star player in Pierce, and they made another trade for Ray Allen by sacrificing a top 5 draft pick for a player who had surgery on both his ankles. Because Seattle and Minnesota were just trying to save money by giving away their marquee players, Boston still had enough assets (Rondo, Perkins, eventual signing of buyout players) to make the title run. The Bulls aren’t screwing any team over like that, acquiring a superstar will mean trading away half the roster, and not the shitty part.

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 25, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions

True, but my point still makes sense

Boston had a lot of things go right, and probably had some inside help due to Ainge and McHale’s relationship. If I remember correctly, the Bulls did offer quite a bit for KG, in fact, Minny would have gotten more in return from us…

But I don’t think it would take half the roster to get McGrady…he’s worn out his welcome in Houston, and I think they would listen to offers, like you said, he makes $18 million a year, I’m sure Houston would love some expiring contracts and say Hinrich for him. Hinrich, Hughes, one of our young guys and cash should do it… Then you get a guy a T-Mac desparate to prove he’s been worth the hype all this time, who could make the All-Star team, and who could also guard Kobe and LeBron by the way.

I could think of worse situations (like our season this past year)...

by POSEYHATER on Jun 25, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions

Just because he's worn out his welcome doesn't mean it won't take a lot to get him

He’s still one of the best players when healthy, and Houston isn’t going to let him go without obtaining some serious everyday starters. What is the point of trading McGrady for Kirk and Tyrus Thomas? They are making a lateral move or taking a step backwards, relying on an even more injury prone Yao Ming to carry the team then. If Houston was to trade McGrady, they would be asking for superstar potential in return, which the Bulls don’t have except for the 1st pick.

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 25, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions

McGrady stopped going inside somewhere between 2003-2005

26% of his shots were inside in 2002-2003 compared to 20% the last three years.

by tyger1147 on Jun 25, 2008 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions

I wonder what Pat Riley is hoping to get for the #2

I would gladly send Kirk, Tyrus, Gooden, and Next years pick for #2 and Marion.

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 10:03 AM CDT reply actions

Then sign and trade Deng in July...

to try to get a stud shooting guard or center…

Rose, Gordon, Marion, Beasley, Noah…

Plus whoever we can trade Deng and Nocioni for.

That sounds great, fast, athletic, and fun to watch.

by kidronmusic on Jun 25, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions

The only players that intrigue me are Rose, Beasley, and Mayo...

no one else intrigues me that much. Most of the other guys have some serious question marks – don’t think it’d be worth it.

You look at the recent mock drafts – there’s movement all over the top 10 except for the top 3 spots. I thought Bayless was a sure thing – he might fall to #9 now. Eric Gordon just looks like a better Ben Gordon. There are questions like these for all the other top 10 except those top 3 spots.

by swede2287 on Jun 25, 2008 11:11 AM CDT reply actions

This draft doesn't look that deep IMO

I think outside of Rose, Mayo, and Beasley, only Love, Westbrook, and maybe Bayless strike me as potential starters in the league. And you’re right, the mock drafts have people going all over the place, which means that people who have watched these guys the entire year aren’t particularly sold on them either.

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 25, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions

I think the "deep" comments...

...(and I blame the idiot people who continue to say it w/o clarification), are meant to say that there are a number of serviceable prospects. Usually, if you’re looking outside of the first ten in a draft, you’re reaching for struggling to find someone who becomes even a starter. I think the “deep” comments are that this year you might find decent starters all throughout the Top 20. Not that it’s deep in great talent, but that it’s deep in good talent. Most drafts have great/good talent hard to find outside of the lottery.

by tyger1147 on Jun 25, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions

it depends...

if we could trade some guys to free up room for rose, like kirk or hughes i would probably do it so we could get another center. hopefully k love or B LO(brook lopez). B LO sounds a lot harder than Brook. but if we have to give up to much or take on to many wack players or contracts i wouldn’t do it.

by FUTURE12 on Jun 25, 2008 2:41 PM CDT reply actions