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Let's solve our big man/post presence problem (Brook Lopez)

THIS POST IS WRITTEN UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE CHICAGO BULLS WILL SELECT DERRICK ROSE WITH THE #1 PICK IN THE 2008 NBA DRAFT. WHILE DRAFTING ROSE WILL GO A LONG WAY IN SOLVING OUR BACKCOURT/PG PROBLEMS, HIS UPCOMING ARRIVAL SHOULD NOT BE VIEWED AS THE FINAL STEP TOWARD THE BULLS RETURNING TO PROMINENCE . . .

Star-divide

Every great point guard needs to have a solid big man to succeed. Magic had Kareem. Stockton had Malone. Mark Jackson had Ewing. Kidd had Kenyon Martin & now Dirk Nowitski. Deron Williams has Boozer. Chris Paul has both David West & Tyson Chandler. Although Derrick Rose is a great PG prospect, his ultimate success currently depends upon the development of current Bulls bigs Joakim Noah & Tyrus Thomas. (Drew Gooden SHOULD NOT be viewed as anything more than a trade waiting to happen.) In my view, this situation is far from ideal. Although both Thomas & Noah have displayed immense defensive talents, neither will ever become a force on the offensive end.

One thing all of the bigs that played with the great PGs had in common was a proficiency in scoring. Be it through skyhooks, jumpers, or back to the basket maneuvers, they knew how to put the ball in the hole. Currently, there is no one on the trading block worth kicking the tires on. Although many were calling for the head of PAX after not dealing for Pau Gasol & Kevin Garnett, we should probably be thanking Jeebus, Budha, & Muhammad himself that these deals didn’t go through. Gasol was exposed as being softer than Gerber’s Mushed Peas in the Finals. While tenacity & defensive intensity are great intangibles, Kevin Garnett would not have been our answer. He tends to shy away from post contact, (the butter-soft combo of Odom & Gasol made him look like a beast in the Finals) relying on a shake & bake fade-away he owes Michael Jordan royalties for. He knows damn well he owes his 1st ring to Paul Pierce & Rajon Rondo’s rapid rise.

So, where am I going with this? I don’t want PAX dealing for Zach Randolph. I don’t want a second helping of Elton Brand either. Day-by-day, I’m leaning more towards the Bulls solving their big man/ post presence conundrum through this year’s draft.  Specifically, I’m hoping the Bulls use some combination of Thomas, Nocioni, Noah, Gooden’s expiring contract & possibly next year’s 1st round pick to obtain another lottery pick this Thursday.

Prior to the actual lottery drawing on May 20th, I had my sights set on Brook Lopez out of Stanford. While not spectacular in the paint, he is fully capable of generating an offense within 7 feet of the hole.  He averaged almost 20ppg. His rebounding needs improvement, however his shot blocking (2 bpg) and size (7’0’’, 260lbs.) make him a defensive presence capable of banging around with Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett & the other talented bigs in the Eastern Conference. Overall, he projects to be a better pro than Noah. There is no veteran presence that’s available this offseason that can come in a make a championship impact on this squad. With a rookie coach, #1 pick & loads of young talent, PAX’s main objective over the next couple of seasons should be to build a talented base so that the Free Agent Class of 2010 (Mainly LeBron & Wade) has a reason to believe they can win in Chicago. With multiple lottery teams looking to wheel & deal, gaining possession of a 2nd lottery pick is not as far-fetched as it sounds. If I were PAX, this is one deal that I would ponder over . . .

What say you, Blog-A-Bull Community? Agree/disagree? Your ideas are welcome & encouraged. Let’s hear some feedback . . .

Brook Lopez Draft Express Profile

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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I agree with most of this, though I would replace "big man" with "superstar."

If I’m Pax my plan is this:

Draft Rose
Re-sign Deng
Let Gordon walk (as effective of a scorer that he is, this will help when we want to lure Wade in 2010)
Play the young guys (Tyrus, Noah, Thabo) A TON so they develop quickly and hopefully are reaching their potential around 2010
Clear as much cap as possible by letting Gooden and Hughes expire
If possible, get rid of contracts like Kirk and Noc who extend past 2010
Then, in the summer of ‘10, go after Wade and/or Bosh. At this point, a proven superstar is all we should need to become a title contender if these guys develop like we think they can.

Rose/Wade/Deng/Tyrus/Noah would look pretty awesome.

Or even Rose/Thabo/Deng/Bosh/Noah.

That is my plan if I’m Pax. Let’s see how he plays it, though. At the least, it’s exciting to be a Bulls fan.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jun 22, 2008 2:44 PM CDT   0 recs

I agree with two caveats

that we try to get Beasley also and experiment where he fits.

It’s just too difficult to find an All-star 5. So do it by committee like the Bulls’ did in the ‘90s. Get some second round draft choices and take some chances.

by hlac on Jun 22, 2008 3:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I DOn't really remember

Kirk lobing up the ball to Thomas or Noah. Thomas needs rose to do that for in or he will be stuck making his own dunks all year again

by knickknack7450 on Jun 23, 2008 12:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pass on adding draft picks. They wont be better than Gooden or have more potential than Thomas.

by gillrowdy on Jun 22, 2008 3:02 PM CDT   0 recs

Gooden was pretty effective after the trade.

12.5 PER with Cleveland, up to 17.4 with the Bulls.

If nothing else, taking Rose will at least piss off Pat Riley.

by wjb1492 on Jun 22, 2008 5:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

R u serious?

TT has enourmous potential to be an offensive threat….remember how much J.Oneal sucked in his 1st 2 years?

And TT has wayyy more potential that that jail blazer

by Belize on Jun 22, 2008 3:51 PM CDT   0 recs

Contradictory

Within the same paragraph, you make the following statements:

“Chris Paul has both David West & Tyson Chandler…..Although both Thomas & Noah have displayed immense defensive talents, neither will ever become a force on the offensive end.”

I don’t know what would lead anyone to believe that Tyrus & Joakim can’t rise to the elite heights of West & Chandler. How many all-star games have West & Chandler combined made? It’s not like these guys are HoFers or anything.

Furthermore, you’re condemning Tyrus & Joakim based on 3 combined years of service with a Bulls team that was in disarray for at least the last season. I can easily envision Tyrus becoming a force equal to or better than Tyson Chandler on offense, with a great PG like Paul. And Joakim actually has pretty good moves for a young, true 7-footer. He’s no Patrick Ewing, but he’s very active and can get the ball up on the rim. Joakim can also take tall stiffs like Ilgauskus off the dribble from outside.

If the Bulls are going to trade these guys, it better be for a proven player, not a college stiff. Here’s what NBADraft.net has to say about Brooke Lopez: “Brook’s lack of foot speed makes him a little slow in transition, but once he gets his feet moving he can run the floor pretty well … Not incredibly explosive. He gets off the ground well but doesn’t explode to the rim quickly.”

Even the DraftExpress source you linked had this to say: “Sometimes, though, he seems content to stay in the five to seven foot range, where his success drops considerably. Lopez is very formulaic in this range when he has his back to the basket, never trying to further back his man down once he has the ball, never putting the ball on the floor for more than one dribble, and almost always going right up into a right-handed hook shot or a turnaround jumper, often rushing his shot.” That pretty much goes directly against your assertion that Lopez is “is fully capable of generating an offense within 7 feet of the hole.”

Both Tyrus and Joakim run the court like deer, and their explosiveness is well documented. If Tyrus or Joakim do have issues when backing down in the post with their backs to the basket, Lopez certainly can’t be counted on to be better in this area any time soon.

If you can’t tell already – I’m TOTALLY against this idea. The Bulls need to pick Derrick Rose and give Tyrus and Joakim the opportunity improve with him, both on offense and on defense.

There’s only one player worth trading back into the draft for – and that’s Beastley.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 22, 2008 3:52 PM CDT   0 recs

Noah's not a "true" seven-footer.

I mean, if you’re using the term “true” as in “actually”.

by tyger1147 on Jun 22, 2008 4:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Great Point(s). . .(counter-argument)

I would hate to see both Noah & Thomas go. My ideal situation would be for one of them to start at the 4 with Lopez at the 5

I envision Derrick Rose running a Pick/Roll offense with our bigs, similar to how Chris Paul & Deron Williams run their teams. This allows Rose to have the options of using his blazing speed to penetrate to the bucket for an easy deuce when he is not double teamed, or kicking the ball out to the 4/5 for a mid-range jumper who was left open when his man doubled up on Rose. In order for this to be successful, not only do our 4/5s need to be able to finish at the cup (Which Noah/Thomas are fully capable of), they have to be able to knock down that mid-range jumper when they are left alone by their man who is trying to stop Rose from penetrating for an easy deuce. Can you honestly say Noah/Thomas are capable of doing this consistently? Both David West & Carlos Boozer (& to a lesser extent, Memhet Okur) came into the league with a deadly mid-range game. This also happens to be Brook Lopez’s strength. (“Lopez is at his best facing up from the five to ten foot range, where he seems very comfortable in the triple-threat position, and likes to take jump shots with a hand in his face.”) He can also finish at the cup when need be. (“Inside five feet, Lopez looks nearly automatic, showing good touch and the strength to finish over pretty much anyone at this level. He shows solid footwork and will use drop-steps, spin moves, and mini-hooks to score. When he wants to, Lopez does an excellent job establishing deep position and sealing his man off down low.”)

Basically, I like Brook Lopez because he displays a classic offensive center’s game. He won’t be Ewing or Olajuwon, but he is already light-years ahead of our “project” big men in the offensive department. . .

by ChiCity85 on Jun 22, 2008 5:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

2 rebuttals

1) Tyrus is already better on Offense the Tyson, and so is Noah. They will both be able to finish at the hole for an easy assist if Rose breaks down the D. The Bulls haven’t had that guy, Rose is it. And obviously on the break, we are ahead with the 2 of them.

2) Defense wins Titles. Lopez is the kind of guy that will get you through the 1st round, and then you’re toast. Noah and Tyrus can each develop into all league defenders- they have the heart, and unusual agility at their position, and the length. Lopez sounds like a plodder.

by iBurkey on Jun 22, 2008 10:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Great Point(s). . . .(my ReButtal)

I would hate to see both Noah & Thomas go. My ideal situation would be for one of them to start at the 4 with Lopez at the 5

I envision Derrick Rose running a Pick/Roll offense with our bigs, similar to how Chris Paul & Deron Williams run their teams. This allows Rose to have the options of using his blazing speed to penetrate to the bucket for an easy deuce when he is not double teamed, or kicking the ball out to the 4/5 for a mid-range jumper who was left open when his man doubled up on Rose. In order for this to be successful, not only do our 4/5s need to be able to finish at the cup (Which Noah/Thomas are fully capable of), they have to be able to knock down that mid-range jumper when they are left alone by their man who is trying to stop Rose from penetrating for an easy deuce. Can you honestly say Noah/Thomas are capable of doing this consistently? Both David West & Carlos Boozer (& to a lesser extent, Memhet Okur) came into the league with a deadly mid-range game. This also happens to be Brook Lopez’s strength. ("Lopez is at his best facing up from the five to ten foot range, where he seems very comfortable in the triple-threat position, and likes to take jump shots with a hand in his face.") He can also finish at the cup when need be. ("Inside five feet, Lopez looks nearly automatic, showing good touch and the strength to finish over pretty much anyone at this level. He shows solid footwork and will use drop-steps, spin moves, and mini-hooks to score. When he wants to, Lopez does an excellent job establishing deep position and sealing his man off down low.")

Basically, I like Brook Lopez because he displays a classic offensive center’s game. He won’t be Ewing or Olajuwon, but he is already light-years ahead of our "project" big men in the offensive department. . .

by ChiCity85 on Jun 22, 2008 5:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

2 Re-rebuttals

2 rebuttals
1) Tyrus is already better on Offense than Tyson, and so is Noah. They will both be able to finish at the hole for an easy assist if Rose breaks down the D. The Bulls haven’t had that guy, Rose is it. And obviously on the break, we are ahead with the 2 of them.

2) Defense wins Titles. Lopez is the kind of guy that will get you through the 1st round, and then you’re toast. Noah and Tyrus can each develop into all league defenders- they have the heart, and unusual agility at their position, and the length. Lopez sounds like a plodder.

by iBurkey on Jun 22, 2008 10:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I disagree

Lopez looks good. In the current stage of development he seems on pace for an average NBA career. I think his biggest obstacle will by physical defense. He can turn over either shoulder and shoot, but what an NBA defense will do to him is attack him physically as soon as he hits the free throw line. They will make him work ten times as hard to get the ball.

I think if you want Lopez you are looking at a useful player sometime in the middle of his third season.

Noah and Thomas are useful right now.

by NBA Observer on Jun 23, 2008 9:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Where did the Joakim love go?

I remember a fanpost a month or so back asking who the Bulls’ best player was last year. Joakim got a lot of votes, and would’ve gotten mine.

Post all-star break last year, he averaged 8.9ppg, 7rpg, 1.1apg, 1.2spg, 1.3bpg in 28 minutes… pretty impressive numbers for a 22 year old who can still add 20lbs to his frame. I expect him to be better than Chandler within a couple years.

by YaoPau on Jun 22, 2008 4:53 PM CDT   0 recs

Yeah, to me he'll be Chandler with a better offensive game.

That works just fine for me, especially when Rose is going to (hopefully) be our PG of the future.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jun 22, 2008 5:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

co-sign

If we trade Noah..I might shed a tear or two. Only reason to watch the second half of last year

by Belize on Jun 22, 2008 6:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn't cry.

I would just pour a little cognac on the curb in his memory….

by smash! on Jun 22, 2008 6:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not to mention much smarter

Chandler still has his glorious pet peeve of fouling on every possession.

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 22, 2008 6:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah. Some guys just never learn.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jun 22, 2008 6:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I like the bulls to grow up with...

Rose, Thabo, Deng, TT, and Noah in their starting lineup. This lineup is very defensive and has the possiblity to be offensive with Deng and TT. I say keep Gordon as the 6th man for offensive help and Gooden as backup PF/C. Resign Duhon at PG because he will be cheap, is a true pg. Sign James Jones at backup SF as a 3 point shooter. Trade Hinrich, Nocioni for free CAP space in 2010 offseason. Let Hughes rot on the bench for 2 seasons. 2010 sign D’wayne Wade.

by Benny the BullMastiff on Jun 22, 2008 6:13 PM CDT   0 recs

Yeah, screw Hughes.

If the guy doesn’t want to play like a real teammate, I really couldn’t care less how much he plays. He pisses me off to no end because he could be a very effective player if he wanted. Instead he wastes his minutes by throwing up God-awful shots instead of ever thinking to pass the ball. It’s tough to watch.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jun 22, 2008 6:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bigman starts with a B.

What’s wrong with Brand? “I don’t want a second helping of Brand.” Why? I would love me some more Elton. If the Bulls could pull that off, that would be fantastic. I can’t imagine many big men that would complement Noah better. Such a sweet shot, great hands, & a good guy, too- I would call him a “leader” for sure.

I also have a soft spot for Boozer & Bosh. I know Bosh is one of the big 3 in the class of 2010. And I believe Boozer’s contract is up in 2009 (he has an option for 2010) and the Jazz supposedly believe they won’t be able to resign him, so he’s not untouchable.

I’d highlight those 3 and take a crack at each until we land one- Brand now, then Boozer next year, than Bosh in 2010 (if we’re still big-man-less). My fav of the 3 is Bosh, but I think the Bulls would love to take a run at Wade in 2010 so landing both via free agency in the same summer might be impossible.

by smash! on Jun 22, 2008 6:25 PM CDT   0 recs

Age age age age age age age....

Brand is 29. The rest of our core is 25 or younger. When these guys are hitting their primes, Elton will most likely have passed is. I’d rather get a guy who’s prime fits in well with the rest of our guys’ primes. We’re not really trying to win now, I think that’s obvious. We need to keep building for the future, as opposed to next year only.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Jun 22, 2008 6:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

Brand is good enough and he is not that old. You can just have young talents you need vets

by JustAnotherFan on Jun 22, 2008 7:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know that age is the downside with Brand...

But we need leaders and 29 isn’t that old… I think we could content in 2010 and that makes Brand 31-32… He’s had a year and a half off and if he’s our veteran on a team of mid-20’s ballers, I’m completely cool with that.

Also, Boozer is only 26 and Bosh just turned 24.

by smash! on Jun 22, 2008 6:40 PM CDT   0 recs

disagree

who says those guys would play for the Bulls. They can just say no and go somewhere else and we would be empty handed

by JustAnotherFan on Jun 22, 2008 7:06 PM CDT   0 recs

Enough

with the “sign Wade in 2010” by then he’ll be in a wheel chair and crippled for life. Bosh is the one we should go after( I think Lebron will resign with the cavs by next summer) but if not go after him.

by eross226 on Jun 22, 2008 10:44 PM CDT   0 recs

Lebron is going to be in NYC or Brooklyn by 2010 unless the Cavs put together a real contender in the next 2 years...

And that’s not going to happen. Wade could very well be a mess by 2010… one sure way of knowing that is if Riley does really try to trade him soon.

by smash! on Jun 23, 2008 11:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I like the way your headed....

It is very hard to gauge where Lopez will be I see him on mock drafts from 3 to 12 and theres a few paople in Sacramento that think Hibberts going 12th! Heres what pick I think can be moved…..

Bobcats at 9
Nets at 10
Blazers at 13 ♣♠♦♥ This is the only team that we could Trade HinricH for.
Suns at 15

I really think we could pull this deal off but we will be BOVINOUS and do nothing but scratch our head.
Raptors at 17

by TRiCioNeRo on Jun 23, 2008 12:35 AM CDT   0 recs

Just to be devil's advocate

Magic had Kareem. Stockton had Malone. Mark Jackson had Ewing. Kidd had Kenyon Martin & now Dirk Nowitski. Deron Williams has Boozer. Chris Paul has both David West & Tyson Chandler.

^

Apart from kareem and magic…non of em won a championship…

by Belize on Jun 23, 2008 1:00 AM CDT   0 recs

True, but. . .

each made deep Finals runs. Not saying an appearance in the Finals is my goal. But at least they made it. . .

by ChiCity85 on Jun 23, 2008 1:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I see ur point

..but seriously…center/PG combo is overated and oversaturated in the league. Our old bulls broke the rule for that with our medicore centers (longley, cartwright)...really all a championship team needs is a facilitator, someone to create off the dribble, shooters and hard nose D..i think were covered on most of that already…

ohh yeah, heart plays a factor too, something I hope VDN will instill

by Belize on Jun 23, 2008 1:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Definitely agree!

Just some additional thoughts I’ve been stating lately…. A star PG will make any team better almost instantaneously, but it is a superstar that brings the championship more times than not. Superstars: Jordan, Bird, Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, Hakeem O., Bill Russel, Chamberlain, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, DWade just to name a few superstars…

by Mattchoo on Jun 23, 2008 2:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

here we go with

this talk again….

by kingj41 on Jun 23, 2008 7:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If we take Rose everthing can change.

Chandler became a star dunking Paul’s incredible passes. Noah has more skills around the basket than Chandler. Let’s see how things develop 2008-9 before making a trade. TT can develop into an all-star with Rose. Deng and even Noc may look much better as two defenders are chasing Rose around the court. Rose is only 19 and I like thinking about our team 2-3 years from now. I love Brand but he will be 32-33 years old when we are just hitting our peak. The future smells like a Rose.

by chgobr on Jun 23, 2008 9:03 AM CDT   0 recs

2010 will be our yr....

picture a lineup of:
C Noah
PF Bosh
SF Deng
SG Thabo
PG Rose(reaching his potential hopefully)
or

C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG Wade
PG Rose

or

C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG LEBRON
PG Rose

we should do everything we can to win now and at the same time free up cap space for this amazing free agent class… i say get rid of Kirk and maybe Noch….just right there u would be freein up 20MIL in cap space Larry Hughes if we are stuck with him would be off the books thats another 13MIL….so we will have enuff money to resign Rose…Thabo….Noah and Thomas and still go after a superstar….NEW DYNASTY!!!!!!!! Cmon Pax get this right!!!

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 23, 2008 9:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think these potential line-up posts are kinda silly and pie-in-the-sky BUT

...who do you have coming off your bench? Where’d BG go and what’d we get- anything? Who’s going to hit a 3, let alone a jumpshot in ANY of those lineups? If Lebron is your ringer, aka your best shooter, you’re not winning much. (And there’s no shot in hell Lebron is coming here, but I digress.)

by smash! on Jun 23, 2008 11:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hard to say who else would be on the roster

C Noah
PF Bosh
SF Deng
SG Thabo
PG Rose(reaching his potential hopefully)
DA BENCH: Gordon,Gray,Thomas,3 point shooter, resign Larry Huges at $13/hr lol
or

C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG Wade
PG Rose
DA BENCH: Thabo, Gordon,Grey,draft 3 pt shooter in 09 or 2010 draft,Sign Veteran SF and/or Veteran PF/C…and resign Andrian Griffin(lol)
or

C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG LEBRON
PG Rose
DA BENCH: Thabo, Gordon, Gray, Jameson Curry(maybe not), 3pt Shooter, Defensive minded big man

By 2010 who knows who would be on the bench of these potential lineups u can do what Boston did and fill with a couple of young player and some vets.

CHICAGO MANE!!!!

by YEP on Jun 23, 2008 12:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

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