Waiting for the white smoke
That's for the pope, but this coaching search seems almost as important. Or at least as long. Or maybe the point is smoking must be involved:
Contrary to a published report, Bulls general manager John Paxson never intended to talk to another former NBA coach about the job over the weekend. Speculation is that Paxson will want Collins to give a spot on his coaching staff to one of the candidates the Bulls have interviewed over the last six weeks. Collins could groom that person to eventually succeed him.
This version of the coaching hire has been said in more-or-less the same fashion since it was first reported: that Collins would be the head coach, but one of the many many other applicants would be the hand-Paxed successor.
It makes sense somewhat, lots of teams have the 'star' assistant who is reported to be head coaching material until GMs around the league consistently go with retread options instead.
However, does it ever get stated preemptively to the hire of the coach? Ever? What's it going to be like for this team knowing that their coach not only isn't usually long for the jobs he takes, but that management is so confident in his abilities (and durability) that they're already picking his replacement? Who'd you rather try to please in that instance, the coach or the next coach?
I can foresee a situation where if (when?) things flame out with Collins, it'll be in part because the players have shown favor to his assistant at his expense. Or if they haven't, that assistant would then be so aligned with Collins that he wouldn't then be able to take over the team anyway.
Of course, it's possible that Jeff Hornacek or Tyrone Corbin or whoever gets the 'organizational guy' lifetime contracts that Myers and Adams have apparently received.
The whole situation seems so bizarre, and unprecendented. And the fact that it's become common knowledge makes it cross the threshold into stupid.
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How will Collins react to having his successor foisted upon him?
Let’s face it, a lot of assistants get jobs by undercutting the head coach. If they really think Collins is the right head coach, then they should let him pick a coaching staff that he’s comfortable with. Collins is a paranoid guy to begin with (at least when he’s coaching), and we already know he had some tense moments with Phil Jackson during his last year as Bulls coach in 1989. Why repeat that – especially since the successor probably isn’t going to end up being the next Phil Jackson? And it he is, then you’d want to hire him now instead of Collins anyway. The whole thing is so convoluted and silly.
by Big D on Jun 2, 2008 9:58 PM CDT 0 recs
good point
That practically makes it a sitcom.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 10:02 PM CDT 0 recs
Yeah, yeah, yeah, mostly agree
but Collins is kind of a special case. He’s a well respected basketball guy with a cushy TV gig who already turned down several other overtures. Having the first pick is also a special case. The bulls are again a few years off so why not let a grizzly old vet run the show for a few years. As much as we might like to see an uptempo team, we all know defense and execution are the keys to winning championships, not gimicky offenses. So Collins is a good choice. If you want Rose to turn into CP or DW, shouldn’t you at least want him to start under a coach like Scott or Sloan?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 10:10 PM CDT 0 recs
didn't Pax find anyone halfway decent in his mystical quest?
if so, take a chance on the first-time coach then.
Your argument against uptempo is lame.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 2, 2008 10:16 PM CDT
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I'm starting to think you're a Pax contrarian yourself
do you reflexively disagree with everything he does?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Jun 3, 2008 9:14 AM CDT
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he's doing something?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 3, 2008 9:15 AM CDT
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less than a minute
it is reflexive…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Jun 3, 2008 9:16 AM CDT
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flagged for metawhining.
These do tally up in the SBNation supercomputer, you know.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 3, 2008 9:19 AM CDT
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I, for one, salute our new SBNation Overlords!
:-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Jun 3, 2008 9:39 AM CDT
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::gag::
That’s reflexive, too.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 3, 2008 9:53 AM CDT
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Hey
You aren’t suppose to be talking about your personal life here….shame shame!
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on
Jun 3, 2008 10:06 AM CDT
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The Lakers are second in the league in Pace Factor
But yeah, no way they can win with a gimmicky offense like that.
by Big D on
Jun 2, 2008 10:18 PM CDT
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Excuse me, they were sixth
I accidentally looked up the playoff stats instead of the regular season stats. But my point still stands – they’re an up-tempo team, and they’ve had a ton of success. It’s idiotic to say that you can only win playing one style of basketball. If you have good players, several different styles will work.
by Big D on
Jun 2, 2008 10:21 PM CDT
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and good coaching
heh. (yes, I’m ‘heh’-ing my own remark)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 2, 2008 10:34 PM CDT
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good one
because the bulls are exactly like the Lakers, except for the coach of course. If only the bulls could steal Phil Jackson back, then they’d definitely be playing for championships…
The lakers play uptempo because they can; they’re a veteran team who understand exactly what it takes to win. I don’t put the bulls in the same category. Anybody who thinks with a 19 year-old pg next year that the bulls can play a fast pace and be successful is kidding themself.
Oh, and the triangle isn’t a gimick… but thanks for that because that gave me a little chuckle this morning. :-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Jun 3, 2008 9:12 AM CDT
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bs keys to titles
defense, execution, “knowing what it takes”
I think there’s another cliche you’ve missed somewhere along the line.
You don’t think Rose is better suited, at least to begin his career, with a fast pace? That seems to be his strength. Don’t put the shackles on him yet, “play the right way” guy!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 3, 2008 9:17 AM CDT
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They "understand exactly what it takes to win"
Other than Kobe and Derek Fisher, how many of those guys had ever won anything until this season?
by Big D on
Jun 3, 2008 11:17 PM CDT
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Did you happen to notice where Utah and NO were on the pace listings?
Because that’s where DW and CP, where everybody’s favorite comparions for Rose, play. Any guess where they are? For exult’s benefit, I’ll go ahead and post it so you don’t have to just guess.
11. Utah
26. NO
oh and our beloved bulls were #9, so I guess pace isn’t the key ingredient either…
Guess you don’t have to play fast to win. But go ahead and make asinine comparisons to the lakers instead. :-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Jun 3, 2008 9:47 AM CDT
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well, nobody's saying a team has to play fast to win
just basing it on THIS roster. Not the 94 Houston Rockets.
And 11th would be far and away faster than Collins’ fastest.
so, huh?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 3, 2008 9:59 AM CDT
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NO hasn't had a pace higher than 21 since CP showed up
and pace numbers are on the upswing over the last few years since perimeter defense rules were changed. I don’t think you have to worry about the bulls playing at a glacial pace under Collins. They won’t be the fastest team, but I think it will be watchable.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Jun 3, 2008 10:11 AM CDT
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it's watchable as long as the ball goes in the basket
Doug Collins doesn’t get his teams to do that, and slowing it down just makes watching more frustrating on top of mediocrity.
by hscs on
Jun 3, 2008 10:13 AM CDT
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not sure I understand
Collins teams don’t score and don’t win? Because his coachng record would seem to belie that. His bulls and pistons teams did just fine.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Jun 3, 2008 11:35 AM CDT
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but they won (somewhat)
so an exciting offense is more important than wins? Of course, it’s more palatable. But who cares if they crawl, walk, or sprint? If they sprinted their way to another 49-loss season what good is it?
by NormVanBeer on
Jun 3, 2008 11:51 AM CDT
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Great teams execute well both offensively and defensively
Offensively, Collins’s teams have never been better than mediocre. You’re confusing the points regarding of pace and offensive efficiency. It’s probably only coincidence that Collins’s teams are slow and inefficient at the offensive end.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 3, 2008 12:03 PM CDT
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not really
i was only talking about pace, not offensive effienciency. I’m actually really tired of the whole “pace” argument truth be told. People are putting way too much into it. Skiles didn’t exactly have players jetting up and down the floor either, but he was still somewhat successful.
Just because one team players slower than another, that does not automatically equal offensive inefficiency.
by NormVanBeer on
Jun 3, 2008 12:27 PM CDT
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If Collins could coach an efficient offense, I wouldn't care about pace so much
Collins, though, couldn’t coach a league average offense with Michael Jordan in his prime nor with Grant Hill. That doesn’t bode well. Plus, the current Bulls roster is best suited for an uptempo pace. Gooden, Thomas, and Noah are all bigs who can run the court, allowing the Bulls to play fast without sacrificing too much size and rebounding. Their wing players can’t create their own shots, meaning they’re not well suited to playing out the shot clock.
BTW, under Skiles, the Bulls finished 7, 11, 5, 6, and 11 in Pace.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 3, 2008 12:36 PM CDT
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decent numbers
but it proves the counter-point. A good or decent pace doesn’t really guarantee anything. I guess if you’re ok with the team continuing to flame out in the 1st or 2nd round then by all means have at it…
by NormVanBeer on
Jun 3, 2008 2:36 PM CDT
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actually Skiles' teams did have a relatively fast pace
but I wonder how much of that was skewed by Noc jacking up 3-pointers with 17 seconds left on the clock.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 3, 2008 12:38 PM CDT
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That was just Noce's way of showcasing himself for D'Antoni
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 3, 2008 12:40 PM CDT
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what the hell?
I said:
it’s watchable as long as the ball goes in the basket
Doug Collins’ teams don’t do that very well.
by hscs on
Jun 3, 2008 1:13 PM CDT
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well, based on what
because every team Collins has coached has been ‘glacial’ (nice term)
Here’s two more points on Collins and pace:
1) It’s not just Derrick Rose, it’s also (moreso) because of the big men on the roster. They’re athletic, can (maybe not always will) run the floor, and will hopefully be forcing a lot of turnovers to start that break.
2) It’s just a guess that this team would do better at a fast pace. They could be better at a slow pace, my issue with Collins is that there’s no choice but to be slow-paced, and he’ll fit his rotation to suit that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 3, 2008 10:15 AM CDT
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Stupid argument
Either these players are gonna listen to Collins and buy in or they’re not. Coaches shelf life in the NBA is usually only 2 or 3 years anyway. Even coaches that don’ have an apprenticeship situation (not many) can still find themselves getting undermined by their players to other forms of management. If these players stop responding to Collins it will be because of their own issues, not because their’s a special assisstant coach. Not to mention the fact that this is not even definately gonna be the case, we should probably wait till Collins gets hired before we rip anything else.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 10:12 PM CDT 0 recs
well if that's the case why encourage it?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 2, 2008 10:14 PM CDT
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Players can
turn on any coach, at any time so it really doesn’t matter what the particular situation is. The Milwaukee coach, Kryrstkowiak got fired in his first year of his first job. At least Collins can walk in the door and say that he coached MJ and only 2 NBA coaches can say that. If that doesn’t garner some respect than what will?
by Juiceboxjerry on
Jun 2, 2008 10:21 PM CDT
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"I followed MJ's orders in Washington"
Wow, who wouldn’t respect a coach like that?
by Big D on
Jun 2, 2008 10:22 PM CDT
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Well, Jordan was, after all,
Doug’s boss. Jordan, as part owner and president of basketball operations, actually hired Collins.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 2, 2008 10:30 PM CDT
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I'm less skeptical
The way this article is worded leaves room for interpretation but it seems like people are assuming that Pax is forcing Collins to take on a Pax-picked assistant, but consider:
1) Collins, Pax and Jerry are BFFs and Doug returning to Chicago is a mix of his desire to coach, to make amends/close the circle from his last run with the Bulls and to help Pax out of a tough spot. No idea how this mix is split in Doug’s mind, but there are obviously several factors playing into his decision and to me, it doesn’t appear to be a purely economic decision (guffaw away, skeptics).
2) Prior to the Bulls getting the #1 pick, Collins had stated that he didn’t want to coach and had even declined to speak with Pax about it after Skiles was let go. In fact, Collins appeared to be quite happy and successful as part of the TNT team.
So what if this whole lead assistant thing is actually being done for Doug’s benefit with his blessing? Since he and Pax are basketball soul mates Doug can leverage all the work that Pax has done to identify potential assistants. Also, bringing on a qualified assistant takes some pressure off Doug since he then has the flexibility to bail if he finds out that he can’t handle the grind of being a head coach anymore.
From the head assistant’s standpoint, this works because if Collins is successful and the Bulls go far, he will become “hot and upcoming” and will be courted by other teams. If Collins is not successful, it is likely that Collins will get tired and the assistant can then take the reins.
Believe it or not, I still trust Pax (but to be fair, my fierce loyalty has betrayed me before).
by paxson43 on Jun 2, 2008 10:31 PM CDT 0 recs
I can't take this ...
Paxson please fire yourself, and before you go tell Jerry to sell the team.
paxson43, your theory is your theory?
Too many people make excuses giving Paxson too much credit he has yet to earn, intelligence and saavy he has yet to display as a GM.
Here we go again (Paxson’s infamous 2 for 1 deal…. Aldridge for Tyrus+Viktor, when he should have taken Roy…. now Collins+lame apprentice, when he should have chosen ?) This unnamed apprentice will have a career similiar to Viktor! Another wasted asset!
Paxson hire a coach for today, deal with the problem at hand today and tomorrow will take care of its self.
Paxson’s forcing Myers and Adams upon new coach and also the new apprentice? If I’m Collins, I’m not coming to coach, I’m just coming to get a big fat paycheck from the organization of confusion and screw Jerry R. like I always wanted too.
Bush league basketball management in a major market!
by exult463 on Jun 2, 2008 11:01 PM CDT 0 recs
"This unnamed apprentice will have a career similiar to Viktor! "
if that’s the case, I’m guessing the new assistant will be kickball champion Chuck Person.
Otherwise, I’m guessing Hornacek, Shaw, or Rambis.
(at least Pax is not bringing Cartwright or Floyd back)
by KentuckyBullsFan on
Jun 2, 2008 11:17 PM CDT
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Would Rambis even leave the Lakers for a lateral move?
He may have a shot at replacing Phil Jackson in a few years when he’s ready to retire. I’m not sure he would leave for a promise of eventually getting a head coaching job unless it was actually written in his contract.
by Big D on
Jun 2, 2008 11:53 PM CDT
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wow, some guess...
you just named all the leading potential assistant candidates…you are good.
Step 1 - Win lottery. Step 2 - Hire a coach. Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
Jun 3, 2008 7:37 AM CDT
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Not sure about your question
But yes, this is my own theory that I believe.
by paxson43 on
Jun 3, 2008 4:44 AM CDT
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Oh come on! The tension won't be nearly as bad...
...as between the coach and assistant in Remember the Titans.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Jun 2, 2008 11:07 PM CDT 0 recs
Why is it such a surprise that this information is public knowledge
I mean isn’t insider information what we crave? And pax hasn’t come out and said,”we are hiring collins to do the job for two, maybe three years, and then i am going to kick him out of town regardless, and insert my beloved top asst who we have been grooming the past three years.” has that been said by pax? Its all specualtion, and whats wrong with hiring an asst who is on his way up, but not quite ready? i mean, its a contingency plan. Isn’t that responsible?
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on Jun 3, 2008 12:21 AM CDT 0 recs
CONOR6
We agree at least on one thing: Not Flip Sanders!
Now, I can imagine Collins is jumping for joy at being label an temporary coach because he couldn’t get the job done in the last eighties (Phil Jackson to the resue), and his long time player-buddy also is telling him he can’t get the job done now even before he attempts too?
Paxson is now attempting to seal Douggie Collins Legacy in the NBA as “The guy who couldn’t get it done!”
And Collins is happy about this? If this is true insider information, then Mr. Accountability is behavioring stupidly and disrespectfully.
by exult463 on
Jun 3, 2008 12:05 PM CDT
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Collins perspective on point guards
Clearly, the Bulls having the No. 1 draft pick made the job more appealing. And you can be even more certain that if Collins gets the job, the Bulls will select Derrick Rose. Collins talks often during broadcasts of the importance of a point guard now in the NBA. As a former All-Star guard, Collins also has a preference for open-court ballhandlers and leaders.
by gman2849 on Jun 3, 2008 12:19 PM CDT 0 recs
Should Collins be happy to inherit?
Ron Adams? what has he ever done. coached college for a few years and the basketball program declined under his helm., Dis by Noah because he (Adams) acts and talks like a chump!
Pete Myers? a gritty reserve player, with a great personality who always seems upbeat.
If Paxson wants to emulate Jerry Krause by having an contingency coach, then where are the great Basketball minds on the staff as Phil Jackson hand picked assistant Tex Winters.
Paxson can’t duplicate a pattern, especially half heartedly with Adams, Myers and his own hand picked apprentice. (Paxson has already confessed he knows little about coaching)
History tells us. Phil Jackson, himself choose and promoted is top assistant …
“It was at this time (1989) that he(Phil Jackson) met Tex Winter and became a devotee of Winter’s triangle offense, which he had honed coaching the legendary point-guard, Juan “Pachín” Vicens, Best Basketball Player in the World in 1959 “ Juan Vicens
by exult463 on Jun 3, 2008 12:41 PM CDT 0 recs
Paxson has already confessed he knows "little about coaching and won't ever coach"
Cartwright, Skiles, Boylan ….
We are we going to start taking him at his word...
Now, what makes him qualified to pick a continency coach as an assistant? Some might go a step farther and say even the new “head coach”?
Pax, pick a coach and let him make coaching decisions, yes you got burn with Skiles, but it wasn’t his fault, Skiles was a jerk when you selected him. This was not a hidden known fact.
by exult463 on Jun 3, 2008 12:58 PM CDT 0 recs









