Pax can use his dawdling for good this time
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 7:24 AM CDT
192 comments
Think Doug Collins minds if Paxson is still interviewing and not giving him a contract? Of course not, he's a friend of the organization!
So who cares what the reports were. DetroitBadBoys speculates that Flip Saunders may get fired instead of heading into a 'lame duck' season. Hire that retread Detroit coach instead of Collins.
The Detroit News says that Flip has been told he'll be back. But no news of a contract extension, either. A new contract, and being unshackled from expectations and handling Rasheed Wallace, may not make jumping to the Bulls such a bad idea.
I don't know who this blogger is, but I'll link him to fan the flames.
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Clubhouse Cancer gives me a giggle
It’s been showing up in my automated search stuff for a few weeks, and the ubiquitous source (now “multiple unnamed sources”) hasn’t had a shot at being wrong yet.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 7:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
heh
yes, previous exclusive: Bulls to take Rose #1
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright... I'll bite.
What makes Saunders a better choice than Collins?
by tyger1147 on Jun 2, 2008 7:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he coaches offense and defense
Pace that fits the personnel, wears funny ties, is a hobbit, etc.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Gay
And i dont mean happy…and i really think its true, just check out his demeanor.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Jun 2, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flip's married and has a kid
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aww
Let me be stupid once in a while…..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Jun 2, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was pretty stupid, picco
especially since I think you were confusing Saunders and Marc Iavaronni of Memphis….
Juuuuust kidding, everybody.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh, yeah
Bad year for a coaching search. Saunders’ last four teams have finished the regular season with the #1, #1, #1, and #2 seeds, and he’s never made the Finals.
by YaoPau on Jun 2, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what year is it
when all the championship coaches are available? Heck nobody likes Avery Johnson either and he went to a finals.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me rephrase that to
“I can’t believe we didn’t get one of Mike D’Antoni, Larry Brown, or Rick Carlisle”. I take it back, this actually wasn’t a bad year, but the hirings of those three seem like forever ago.
by YaoPau on Jun 2, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd put Flip Saunders amongst that group
I wouldn’t put Doug Collins though.
(In my arbitrary ‘rankings’)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's been Flip's problem in Detroit?
It seems like they never have really warmed up to him.
Didn’t tthe Pistons have the 2nd best record in the nba this season…and the town is calling for his head?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Webber says the Pistons leader
is Joe Dumars.
That may be part of the problem, but I think the bigger problem is that the Pistons just aren’t that interested in winning it all. They’re cool with EC appearances.
by NBA Observer on Jun 2, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they didn't have a better season than the Celtics
so I guess they didn’t ‘turn it up’ for the playoffs…or, what makes more sense: they just weren’t as good.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then John Paxson is the Bulls' leader
And the “problem”, as it may, applies to us as well.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on Jun 2, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
I’m not at all psyched about Doug’s return, but Flip would be a huge mistake. The man has proven with two teams that he is not a capable coach. Detroit has underachieved every postseason with Flip at the helm, and his playoff decision-making has been abysmal. Ask any Pistons fan. They were done with him two years ago, then the “let’s never double LeBron” game 5 from last year, and now some really poor performances with no adjustments this year.
Doug’s more of a gamble, but I’ll take a gamble over a sure thing that will never get you to the Finals.
by Reed97 on Jun 2, 2008 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
totally with you on this one
i wouldn’t want flip.
by Jaina on Jun 2, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm. didn't Collins underachieve
with Michael Jordan, Saunders has consistently coached one of the 2 best teams in the Eastern conference how exactly did Collins beat his performance with the GOAT Jordan?
by bullschwaa on Jun 2, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He got some awful teams with Jordan
to the conference finals. And Jackson didn’t get the bulls to the championship until his second year. Go back and look at where those bulls teams finished in the regular season. Collins’ bulls teams upset some teams with much better overall talent in the playoffs.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Collins did a terrific job with Detroit.
Colllins worked 2 1/2 seasons with the Pistons starting in 1995, going 46-36, 54-28 and 21-24. In 1994, with Don Chaney as coach Detroit’s record was 28-54. That is an impressive turn-around.
by chgobr on Jun 2, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Collins got the Bulls to the Conference Finals once
They didn’t exactly upset any great teams that year either. They beat the Cavs and the Knicks before losing to Detroit. The years before that, they lost in the first round (‘87) and second round (‘88).
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
those cavs teams were much better overall than the bulls
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As evidenced by the three consecutive championships they would eventually win
Oh, wait. The Cavs may have had more good players, but the Bulls at that point were as good as the Cavs. Beating them was no significant upset.
Collins may be as good if not better coach than Saunders. Saunders is just a better fit for this team as he’s displayed an ability to coach both ends of the court and adjust his pace to his roster.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, the Cavs were better.
I’m wondering if you’re too young to remember those years, or you weren’t paying attention back then?
The Cavs were the favorite, the team with better record & home-court, and the up-and-coming next ‘dynasty’. They had a dang good starting lineup at every position and solid players off the bench. Magic Johnson had referred to them as the next dyanasty of the ‘90s. It’s convenient to remember that MJ hit the shot in game 5 against the Cavs, maybe not too convenient to remember that it was Collins coaching them to that victory and that they were underdogs.
Then the Bulls upset the Knicks 4-2, and took 2 games from the Pistons in the EC Finals. That year the Pistons were 15-2 in the playoffs. They only lost twice – to the Bulls.
In fact, when you consider that (with the Bulls) Doug Collins lost to the 86-87 Celtics, 87-88 Pistons, and 88-89 Pistons – you could say that Collins lost to BETTER teams in the playoffs than Flip Saunders or D’Antoni. And as pointed out above – Phil only did one game better his first season (4-3 loss to Pistons), before finally breaking through.
Just because the Bulls won three straight titles three years on doesn’t mean that Collins didn’t upset better teams with totally-unbalanced Bulls lineup.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 2, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just old enough to remember how good those Cavs teams were
While the talk at the time was that the Cavs would be better, it’s pretty easy in hindsight to see that they weren’t all that everyone was making them out to be. The Bulls weren’t that far off from those Cav’s teams, or the Knicks team they beat, to consider beating them as major upsets. A deeper roster doesn’t always equal a better team.
While Phil’s first team may have only won one more game in the playoffs, they won 8 more games in the regular season.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cavs were all that.
The Cavs were absolutely everything that everyone was making them out to be. But the MJ was better. He single-handedly kept that franchise from winning anything during that 5-6 year span, just as the Pistons had kept him down.
I believe that the point of this part of the thread was to point out that Collins did not underachieve while previously with the Bulls. You keep writing, so I’ll have to assume that you believe that Collins did underchieve with the Bulls. I, however, believes it completely ignores history and the state of affairs at the time.
Doug Collins took underdog Bulls teams and beat higher-rated opponents until they eventually lost to world-champion dynasties. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 2, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm...
He single-handedly kept that franchise from winning anything during that 5-6 year span,
Doesn’t that sort of discount your point that Collins had much to do with it?
by tyger1147 on Jun 2, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point wasnt'....
...that Collins had ‘much to do with it.’
My point was that Collins didn’t underachieve during his time with the Bulls. That’s it. You guys are trying to read waaaaay too much into it. From my statement you could make the leap that I didn’t think Phil had much to do with it either. While that wouldn’t be true, it would underscore the point.
Given that Phil won 6 titles with the Bulls, does anyone think he ‘underachieved’ in his first season, when he lost to the Pistons? Because that’s what some people think of Collins. As you can tell, I disagree.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 2, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whereas Saunders has all the pieces in Detroit
and can’t get them over the hump.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kidding(?)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I am trying to tangle threads
or I am lost, who knows… Can somebody point me to the men’s room?....
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
For starters, the Celtics this season and Cavs last season were winnable series by any stretch of the imagination.
Whereas, I don’t see the Bulls getting past the 86-87 Celtics nor the 88-89 Pistons regardless of who was coach.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 2, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so Collins is at least as good as Saunders then
:-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say it's more the case that
Collins presided over the rise of the Bulls, while Flip presided over the demise of the Pistons.
I’m not a Flip fan. Maybe if the Bulls hire him they can run some sort of an in-game promotion where a fan gets to come down and apply the cardiac paddles to Flip at the beginning of the fourth quarter…just to make sure he’s awake and alert.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's not screaming, he's not coaching
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If his eyes are closed and he's resting his head on a pillow
he’s not awake. He may not even be alive!
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Demise?
It’s been more of a “sustained above-average play” for Flip’s tenure. The coach can only do so much. This isn’t a case of Flip having Skiles-syndrome, generally being a douche to his players that the partnership is just doomed after a certain point. Flip has been in the playoffs every year as a head coach, and the underachieving tag has followed him everywhere. However, doesn’t some of that blame go to KG for not having that superstar mode where he can just dominate games for those 1st round failures? Doesn’t the Detroit lineup deserve some blame for taking the Heat and the Cavs too lightly, then not stepping their game up at the right time against the Celtics? Flip has made tons of playoff mistakes to be sure, but I would go ahead and place him higher than Collins any day of the week in terms of coaching. Doug may be a basketball genius, but his well documented emotional problems, inability to adapt to a different offensive style don’t make him particularly refreshing either.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 2, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not capable
Please define not capable and how Collins is more capable please. Also how does Collins gamble and get the Bulls to a Finals with this team?
by bullschwaa on Jun 2, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My mind is in a different place regarding Collins
He succeeded everywhere he coached except Washington where the real coach was MJ. Our record last year was 33 – 49. 33 – 49, not 49 – 33. Before we hit the draft jackpot we were looking forward to a possible future of not making the playoffs. Now we are worried about Collins because he didn’t go to the NBA finals? I’d be happy if Collins turns us around to 45 wins as long as he develops Rose and the other young guys on our team.
by chgobr on Jun 2, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
Young talent is good, but it’s not exactly the best coaching opp in the league. Big-market pressure, and lots of young players to develop.
"I tell you, Steve Blass, you pitch me inside, they never, never find that ball."
-Roberto Clemente
by cubbybear on Jun 2, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the probable future is getting back on track to being a semi-serious playoff team
Any coach not named Boylan will be lucky enough to get credit for turning things around. The draft pick just made that future brighter, and made roster decisions a lot easier. The Bulls don’t need a wacky guy like Collins to ‘fix’ things, only to have disaster strike 2 or 3 seasons down the road.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if anything
Collins is the ‘sure thing’. He’ll get some improvement and then flame out. They’re even making supplemental hires knowing this!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...which may not be a bad idea.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gamble
I’m not saying that Collins does gamble, I’m saying that hiring him is a bit of a gamble because he may be over the hill as a coach, and that his style really may not mesh with the Bulls’ talent. But with Flip, you know exactly what you’re getting. A decent regular season coach who can’t coach in the playoffs. Maybe some people don’t view Collins as a gamble. That’s fine, but his results are still far less predictable than Saunders would be.
by Reed97 on Jun 2, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't he make the adjustments
and his players ignore him? That’s a red flag too, unless your team has Rasheed Wallace as the ringleader.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adjustments
Believe me, he doesn’t make ‘em. Many of my closest friends are die-hard Pistons fans. They have been aghast at his lack of coaching in playoff situations over these last three years.
by Reed97 on Jun 2, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll rather have Flip
The Piston has been underachieving way before Flip came into the picture. This team has always had the mentality that it can hit the on and off switch. Not to forget the out of control Wallace, who has blown his team chances for repeat almost ever year after the year they won the title. When Flip came on board this team’s scoring hit a huge spike. The Pistons went from a grid it out defensively to an offensive juggernaut. With Flip, the Piston could not only hurt you defensively but offensively effortlessly as well.
Doug is like a old tee shirt who keeps coming back that couldn’t get it done with the best basketball player in the world.
by Soloistic on Jun 2, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except that,
that “old tee shirt” has only coached three teams in his coaching career, and wasn’ given the opportunity to coach Michael after HE broke through with him in the playoffs. Then was given another shot when expectations were far too high for an over the hill player (the greatest over the hill player ever). And the only other team he coached improved 18 games immediately after he got involved. So think you can hardly say that he couldn’t get it done. I think Flip is the real retread out of the two.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, it's not
Garnett, Marbury, Rasho, and Wally World were all young, productive receivers of minutes. Flip even worked Maxiell and Stuckey in more than the veteran garbage on the bench.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, and if the complaint that he was playing too many veterans on the Pistons
it was overdoing his veteran starting 5 that actually deserves to start, not some kind of Adrian Griffin fixation like past coaches here would have.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The core has always been seasoned NBA vets
Wolves: Garnett, Terrel Brandon, Sam Cassell, Sprewell, Anthony Peeler
Pistons: Billups, Hamilton, Wallace, Prince, McDyess, Webber
I just don’t think we have any roster like these teams with proven NBA vets.
It would be nice to pretend that we have any kind of roster like Detroit that could even hope to incorporate players like Maxiell and Stuckey into an already solid core.
by NBA Observer on Jun 2, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does anybody know about Hornacek?
I keep hearing his name linked to this story as the coach-in-waiting.
All I know is that he has local connections (what else is new?)...and I remember him as a pretty decent player for the Jazz both times the bulls played them for the title.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 12:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He worked with the Jazz this past season in a limited role
Some attribute Kirilenko’s improved 3pt shooting to Hornacek. Oh, and his nickname is Horny, which is fun for about 5 minutes.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
everytime it's an assistant coach
they get all the credit, none of the blame.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
groundswell!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
all part of Pax's plan. Never doubted him.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So this means you guys want Flip to coach this team?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless George Karl gets canned in the next 48 hours
Then I’d have to consult Lucky Stan Schanwald.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curious, why is he so much better than Collins?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's not the point...
They just want to be negative about the guy the Bulls hire…and positive about the guy they don’t. It’s all about providing cover to whine and complain.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
go away, alec.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
his strategy isn't play slower, then yell
He coaches both sides of the ball, his teams have played fast and/or slow, and he dresses better than Skiles. He’s coached quite a few successful youngsters as well.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just realized
i’ve watched a ton of basketball in my life and seen a ton of games Flip has coached and i can’t remember ever hearing him talk.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
analysts are always smarter than the people they're analyzing
thus, how Paxson got the GM job in the first place.
I honestly don’t understand the ‘joke’ that Flip’s too quiet. Not that I wouldn’t ‘get it’ if it were true, but I really didn’t think one way or the other about his in-game ‘passion’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how the guy that rarely screams or walks around
Is the head coach of the favored team to win the NBA Finals.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 2, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about screaming and yelling.
It’s about being alert to the moment.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
the knock against Flip is that he hasn’t taken (sometimes inferior) teams to the finals.
The knock against Collins is that eventually his players hate him and the only question after a couple seasons is whether he or his players will quit.
I’ll take the former.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saunders vs. Collins
Put another way, Saunders and Collins may not get you to the top of the mountain, but at least with Saunders your sherpa guides won’t run away while you sleep.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jun 2, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flip Saunders Blows!!!!!
I can’t believe that there are people out there this passionate about him becoming coach. This is the twilight zone!
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you had a choice between Flip and Doug
You would take Collins?
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 2, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not exactly
Pam Amderson and Carmen Electra, but yes, I definately would.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
Jordan hated him so much he brought him back to coach in Washington. I highly doubt that coaching 3 teams in 20 years is a large enough sample size to say that ALL his players end up hating him. Especially since 3 of the most prominent players (Jordan, Pippen and Hill) speak very highly of him to this day.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hill and Jordan aren't big on bad mouthing people to the media
and Pippen needs a paycheck.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine
but that still doesn’t explain Jordan wanting him to coach him again
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Collins gave in to Jordan while coaching the Bulls
While Jordan likes competition, I’m sure he didn’t mind having a coach who would get out of his way
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, Jordan has a pretty shitty track record in evaluating...
well, everything related to basketball. Maybe Jordan’s endorsement should be enough to make us all wary of Collins.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now you're sounding like me...
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point
is not that Jordan is a bad evaluator, you said his players all ended up hating him and I said that is obviously false.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
not the ones he coddles.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just referring to his convoluted reasoning.
(and trying to make a little joke…little joke)
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was because MJ wanted a lackey
He know Doug Collins would follow instructions, and play whoever MJ told him to play. Any self-respecting coach would have turned that job down. How can you coach someone who’s your boss?
by Big D on Jun 2, 2008 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take the latter,
because you have no hope with the former.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well it's a garbage assessment anyway
to say it was Flip’s coaching that couldn’t get them over the top.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although losing to the Cavs last year
is not exactly a coaching badge of honor.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why doesn't Saunders take a lot of the blame for that?
Shouldn’t he have been the guy to say “Don’t let LBJ beat us, double team him.”
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame it on the guy
who forgot to take Flip’s pulse.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
still hilarious.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
supposedly
‘Sheed ignored him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, oh!
But it’s Flip’s fault he couldn’t get wallace to do what he said. It’s Flip’s fault!!!
Hardy-har-har.
by tyger1147 on Jun 2, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Flip just lacked
the North Carolina pedigree.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that's the guy you'd rather have?
the one who sticks around and let’s his players ignore him? Sounds like just the guy to get the bulls back on the right track… Skiles at least had the decency to be up front about it and get the ball rolling for the next guy. Sure that guy was Boylan, but I think we owe Boylan a small debt of gratitude for so expertly guiding the bulls straight to the first pick in the draft. ;-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skiles was a couple months late
should’ve quit preseason.
Besides, ‘players’ weren’t ignoring Flip. It was Rasheed Wallace. He’s special.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many ignored him?
Tayshaun Prince was vehemently defending Flip after they lost Game 6 last week, that doesn’t sound like the actions of someone who has tuned out his coach. Sheed may not get along with him, but Wallace is an idiot who doesn’t even play that consistent anymore. I wouldn’t be surprised if they traded Sheed and kept Flip.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 2, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's key whether it was Saunders or Karl
they’ve had teams that have played multiple ways.
I’m sick of seeing a coach that has ‘a style’ and how the roster now has to suit it. Instead of “Collins is a defensive-minded coach so there’s little-to-no chance that Gordon would get out of his 6th man role.” maybe a coach could say “hey Ben Gordon’s good, so he’ll start and we’ll try and help him defensively.”
A new coach could’ve done this as well. Heck, maybe they’re more apt to, they wouldn’t know what “works” yet.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
During the
time that Collins was coaching the slowed down style was the best way to win games. How do you know that he’s not willing to change his style a little? He doesn’t have a big enough track record to say he won’t change it up.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which time that he coached?
When he was coaching a Bulls team with Jordan, Pippen, and Grant during the hyper paced late 80’s? Or when he was coaching a team led by uber-athletic Grant Hill during the dead ball late 90’s? I won’t question his time with Washington, that team needed a slow pace.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As best I recall
multiple NBA stars haven’t complained about Flip wigging out and crying.
by Sports2 on Jun 2, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if
Flip is a slightly better coach, which I personally kinda doubt, just based on how intersting it would be to see Collins coaching the Bulls again tilts things in his favor for me. That’s probably a really dumb reason, but I think coaching can be a little overvalued and I think given that Saunders is no Red Auerbach, bring on some good theatre!
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 2:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
'probably' a dumb reason?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's that dumb because
there is NOBODY currently available that is better than Collins. Especially Flip.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well that's a different reason
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
another reason to like Saunders
he’s the guy who didn’t take too long to figure out that Ben Wallace was worthless and doesn’t deserve heavy minutes, and especially shouldn’t be incorporated in the offense :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Flip Saunders isn't the answer
Remember, this is the guy who had the Bulls down 3-0 and then inexplicably couldn’t whip his team into shape to beat them in games 4 or 5!! The Pistons lost game 5 in Detroit 108-92!!
Any coach worth his salt would’ve snuffed out the Bulls by game 5, given that they started 3-0. Flip is a coach who starts out great and then can’t close the deal.
I’d rather go with Collins than Flip. At least I’m not certain that Doug is totally incapable of making the Finals like I am with Flip.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 2, 2008 2:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
huh?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
This is just the bigger analogue of my 4th quarter cardiac paddles.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which was hilarious the first two times
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doug is so capable the Bulls are rumored to be hiring the 'next guy' too
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt already mentioned this above.
I think it’s a great plan. For once (if Pax actually does this) I’m in agreement with Paxson.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
despite the relatively quick turnover
Making a guy a lame duck from the start doesn’t seem like a sound plan.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of why I like the idea
is that Paxson just seems unable to make a decision right now.
Collins is a strong personality, and as a short-timer he shouldn’t have any difficulty making the tough coaching and personnel decisions that have Paxson all frozen -up right now.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what personnel decisions?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon, Deng...
and , oh, yeah, a #1 draft pick.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's Collins going to do about it?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe "sign em to 5 year deals, I won't be here anyway!"
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
There’s like ten million different directions this roster can go this summer and there’s a lot more to decide than contract extensions for Gordon and Deng.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
I’d prefer those decisions weren’t left to someone with one foot out the door, before he’s even hired.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on
the whole “He’ll be gone in two years” thing is tired. At least wait til the press conference to get a better feel for the game plan before you trash the guy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no.
I’m saying if that’s the game plan, it’s pretty dumb.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not that dumb
since that’s the way it usually happens. What’s dumb is letting that story get out and everybody think that’s the way it’s meant to go down.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
amazing how ridiculously paranoid the Bulls are about leaks, yet how simultaneously awful they are at plugging ‘em
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
can’t you just see Pax beating his wife and going on a bender every time Chad Ford releases a new Mock Draft?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I try not to picture such things
so no.
But perhaps over-aggressively sweeping is office for bugs, sure.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joking around,
but yours works too
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
But I highly doubt that’s the plan. Just seeing Collins on TNT he looked hyped up to coach again. So why would he leave his cushy TV job just to try and help the Bulls for a couple of years.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
according to Sam Smith
just to ‘help out an old friend’. :-p
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'll relieve Paxson of a lot of the responsibility.
Paxson defers. It’s about his biggest character trait. And who better to defer to than his old coach and mentor, Doug Collins?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
'better'...from Paxson's perspective?
if so, who cares? you said YOU agree with it.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want Paxson making those decisions.
And I’m pretty sure Paxson doesn’t want to make those decisions, either. So, yes, from Paxson’s perspective, and mine.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a whole new level
you don’t want Pax making key personnel decisions?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely I do.
as far as I am concerned, the only mistake he’s made is not having a better coach waiting in the wings when Skiles eventually melted.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He seems shell-shocked to me right now.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's because you like armchair psychology
To provide my answer. Yes, I want him making the decisions, even though he’s made a few more than bullshooter suggests.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*more mistakes
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The D'Antoni non-deal
is a huge red flag.
Also, the Gasol non-deal.
I don’t think you should ignore these failures.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
These failures were not totally of his making
It’s not like Pax is acting in a vacuum where he’s the only one who can make decisions and the world stops until he’s done so.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't have anything to do with Collins
then you’re saying Paxson should be fired, not allowed to hire someone to do his job for him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure the reality is
he won’t be fired.
But, Yes—I do think he should be fired. I think he’s shown that the job’s too much for him…and I’ve said so many, many times .
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
Even if you think Pax is impotent, why suggest Collins is qualified to make the decisions?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doug's first move:
“Yes, Michael. The #1 and Noah for Sean May sounds like an excellent idea!”
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I concur
That’s why I was hoping the Bulls would fire Phil Jackson following the ‘96 season. I mean, he had to have the bench bail him out in Game 6 against Portland, then Phoenix almost forces a Game 7 after the Bulls had been up 3-1 in the Finals. Worst of all, that 72-10 Bulls team had a 3-0 lead before losing the next 2 to the Sonics. Phil’s so overrated.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed the part...
....where Flip went on to win the World Championship with the Detroit Pistons, as Phil and the Bulls did in your example.
When did that happen, funny guy?
It’s bad enough that you’re not all that funny nor all that witty.
But it’s worse knowing you can’t forward a hypothesis with any reasonable evidence. You’d be really funny in the unemployment line.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 2, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hypothesis: coaches win
Players are just chess pieces?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hypothesis:
Some coaches enable players to win championships. Flip Saunders is not one of these coaches.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 2, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm waiting for your "evidence"
Coaches are just a piece of the puzzle to winning a championship. A piece much less significant than talent on the roster and dumb luck.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless the coach gives up, and decides to stop speaking to his players
That didn’t work out very well.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not certain...
....where I stated that coaches aren’t just a piece of the puzzle, less important than the roster and dumb luck. Some folks on this website read WAY too much into responses. There’s a whole level of stuff you’re inferring, which I never implied.
What I did write was that don’t think Flip will ever win anything in Chicago – because he hasn’t come close to winning in Detroit with a roster that has been much better than the Bulls’ of late – and I don’t think Collins underachieved in his previous time coaching the Bulls.
Whenever you’d like to point out which NBA Championship the Pistons actually won with Flip, I’ll make sure to look it up in Basketball-Reference, since I obviously missed it. Because in my example, Flip allowed a highly-flawed Bulls team to creep back into the series, before the Pistons eventually lost to the Cavaliers. In your example, Phil allowed much better teams than last year’s Bulls to creep back into a series before eventually defeating them for the championship. I’m struggling to think of a reason you would post such poor examples of a point other than humor. The fact is, though, that it wasn’t at all funny, either. ?
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 2, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't intended as humor
It was overexaggeration to discredit your point. Knocking a coach over losing 2 playoff games to a pretty good team (they won 49 with a point differential of a 55 win team) is pretty silly and not much in terms of evidence. I simply don’t buy into the notion that a coach can somehow deliver a killer instinct to his players. It’s a veteran squad that shouldn’t need that kind of coddling. Yes, the Pistons haven’t gotten as far as some expect they would in the playoffs. Losing to the Cavs last year certainly doesn’t help Flip’s case. At the same time, losing to Miami before that or Boston this year doesn’t discredit Flip. Boston was clearly the better team this year and Miami was probably of equal strength. Hell, even Larry Brown’s Pistons wouldn’t have beaten the Heat in ‘05 before that if Wade doesn’t go down w/ an injury.
Flip wouldn’t win a championship with this current roster. No coach would win a championship with this current roster. Still, Flip is a superior candidate to Collins as he’s shown aptitude through his career in areas the Bulls are currently in need: working w/ young players, coaching both sides of the court, adaptability to the roster, not burning out himself or his players after a couple seasons.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason that Flip won't win the Finals...
...with the Pistons’ current roster lies in the West, not the East. That’s my point.
Sure, Flip won’t beat the Lakers or the Spurs with the current Pistons. But they damn sure should’ve beat the one-trick-pony Cavs last season, and they could’ve beat the Celtics this season as well.
They’re certainly a veteran squad that shouldn’t need coddling. But they should beat teams that have equal or less talent than they do. Flip was out-coached by Mike Brown last postseason, and by Doc Rivers this postseason.
Is Collins the uber-answer? No. I think he’s the best possible candidate given the current situation. But Flip Saunders is overmatched. For all of his ‘soft’ strengths listed – working with young players, adaptability to the roster, etc – he lacks the in-game coaching and adjustments that good coaches exploit to actually win games they shouldn’t.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Jun 2, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Collins and Saunders both aren't the best possible answers
For a young, developing team that’s probably at least 3 years away from title contention, I’d rather have the coach who’s shown he’s willing and able to work to his players’ strengths. In game coaching drops in importance in the current situation.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 2, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dammit! Flip Fever may be over.
He’s probably staying in Detroit. I’m holding out for official statements.
by hscs on Jun 2, 2008 2:46 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
That was short-lived.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Jun 2, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's the same report from this morning
he’s been told he’ll be back, but he wasn’t given a contract extension either.
Maybe Pax can “ask for permission” after he’s done dusting off his notes from a ‘88 Collins film session. (the Bulls did use film study back then, right?)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forget which team we're talking about
if it requires the Bulls to be aggressive and pro-active, it’s nearly an impossibility
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the true litmus test
would be how quickly Dumars lets Pax talk to Saunders. I’m sure Dumars would love to let Pax take Saunders off of his hands and and clean up another sticky situation for the Pistons again…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe then they can hire Collins
he once coached Grant Hill! think of the ‘return home to make good’ stories that Mitch Albom can write: Sundays with Douggie
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would certainly be a happy ending
for the Dee Mirich’s of the world…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 2, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
linked from there
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dwyer
knows his stuff. He’s consistently one of the best basketball writers I read on a regular basis, and I generally try to read everything that’s out there. My eyes were opened a bit about Flip by reading that piece and by KD’s insistent that Flip should be much more highly regarded than he is. I also agree with the assessment that players have to make plays and that coaches can implore them and show them the way, but ultimately you do it or you don’t. Also, the C’s were better than the P’s this year; so firing Flip would be a very dumb move for the Dumars. I would like it if the Bulls hired Flip, but I’ve resigned myself to the Collins reality.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 3, 2008 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Dwyer said was Saunders isn't an idiot
but he doesn’t exactly say anything that makes me think any better of him. There are coaches who can corral emotional players like Sheed. Saunders obviously isn’t one of them. What makes you think then that Saunders is going to get through to TT where others haven’t? Not sure if Collins will, but the track record seems to indicate that he won’t. If not being an idiot is all it takes to be better than Collins, then I guess he’s your guy. I don’t think Collins is an idiot.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 3, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he's especially ill-suited to handle emotional players
since he becomes an emotional wreck himself.
(or maybe it makes such folks kindred spirits)
And why does the coach have to ‘get through’ to TT? How about just being a Flip-level offensive-minded coach who’d try and coach him instead of get through to him?
So far the only person who ‘got through’ to Wallace was Larry Brown, and that was for 4 months when ‘Sheed likely motivated himself after getting traded. Tough to single out him as an example of Flip failing as a coach.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 3, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skiles wasn't a Flip-level offensive-minded coach?
I just think you guys are giving Saunders way too much credit and not nearly enough blame. To me he’s a ‘meh’ coach. Neither good nor bad, and definitely hasn’t done anything to distinguish himself. I feel like Collins has.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Jun 3, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 3, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eric Musselman is available
(No replies are needed – I almost threw up on my keyboard before I could hit “send.”)
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jun 2, 2008 2:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
history of my coaching hire evaluations
I thought Mussleman deserved a second chance. Whoops.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed!
But he’s a lot like Skiles, so this doesn’t seem like the right fit.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on Jun 2, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah I meant before his Sacramento hire
Now he’s rightly exiled from the league.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know this probably belongs
on another thread, but can someone please explain to me how teams like the Heat and Knicks(especially the Knicks) feel comfortable banking their future on the magical 2010 free agent crop? What guarantees are there that any of these players are gonna leave their current teams?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 2, 2008 3:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
flagged!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't OT
especially if you know better.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't get this "Coach X can't win a championship" argument
Each coach has a style, which may or may not fit a roster’s strengths. Sure, some coaches are qualitatively “better” than others – for example, Phil Jackson is probably better than Doc Rivers – but, most of the time, I think it’s about a personality match.
Do people really think that coaches like D’Antoni and Saunders get to the playoffs and then start crying in the locker room before the Big Game or something? Phoenix has lot to a better San Antonio team a few times, and Saunders has to deal with guys like Rasheed “I don’t care if they beat us, we’re still better” Wallace.
by potato0328 on Jun 2, 2008 4:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This debate
between Flip or Collins isn’t really going to matter much in the end anyway. As usual it comes down to having the best players and best team. Whoever is eventually chosen to coach this team is probably just going to be the first NBA coach for Derrick Rose (or Beasley I suppose) and that’s about it, unless Collins or Flip magically get to the finals somehow in the next two or three years. This is all about the pick and (re)building the team around him, not around the new coach.
by wfrv5 on Jun 2, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paxson endorses your 'go coachless' message
That’s one of the main points, Collins seems the type that a roster has to ‘build around’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no more
building around coaching philosophies, please. It didn’t work with Skiles and it definitely shouldn’t be done for a temporary, stop-gap retread like Collins.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 3, 2008 2:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you're saying there's a chance!
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/blakely-and-jahnke-who-said-flips-job-is-secure/
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 3, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hollinger
Saunders appeared to do one of his best coaching jobs this season. He guided the club to 59 wins while bending over backward to keep his vets fresh for the postseason — no player averaged more than 34 minutes per game. He also played the kids and developed the bench much more than in past seasons, with the result that youngsters such as Rodney Stuckey and Jason Maxiell were huge contributors come playoff time….If you really wanted to quibble, you could point to his use of decrepit vet Theo Ratliff ahead of rising star Amir Johnson in the postseason, but given the small number of minutes that were at stake, it’s hard to see how this altered Detroit’s destiny much. And his other moves — such as benching the ineffective Jarvis Hayes and reinstating Antonio McDyess as a starter — were spot-on.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 3, 2008 9:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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