Gary Forbes Bulls second round pick?
Apparently, Bulls promised Gary Forbes to draft him in the second round. I first hear the rumor on the most recently Bulls Beat . Maybe it’s a little bit early to make this kind of promises, but it seems the bulls liked what Forbes showed in Orlando. And the DraftExpress say great things about him…
No player has done more for their stock in the pre-draft camps than Gary Forbes. The physically imposing swingman rode on the momentum he picked up from the Portsmouth Invitational to an MVP performance at this year’s Orlando Pre-Draft Camp. While he stood out amongst his peers at both venues, he was one of the few players here that showed an ability to carry his team when it mattered. That won’t be a skill that necessarily will need to translate to the NBA for him, but there is something to be said for stepping up and being a leader in a setting like this one where everyone is trying to earn a job.
There is very little that Gary Forbes didn’t do offensively in Orlando, and he provided one of the most impressive scoring performances in the Camp’s history—averaging nearly a point for every minute he played (21.3 in 23 minutes). In his second game, Forbes put up an incredible 30 in 25 minutes. Perhaps the most impressive aspect of Forbes’s performance was the sheer volume of free throws that he accumulated throughout the course of the game, and that Camp for that matter (11 attempts per game). Of the 30 points he scored, 15 came at the line in only 16 tries. He has a knack for attacking angles and getting his man on his shoulder to draw fouls or finish with contact.
Forbes may not be known for his jump shot, but the rotation he puts on the ball is immaculate, and if he can learn to shoot the ball with the same touch from the perimeter as he does from the line, he’ll be a tremendous offensive role player. He only hit 29% of his 3-pointers at UMass, but has definitely shown much more potential in that area at Portsmouth and Orlando. Forbes has already proven himself to be a capable slasher, and while he lacks elite athleticism, he’s got tremendous court savvy and is a very solid ball handler for his size. His instincts are really what separates him from the pack, as he has terrific timing and footwork knowing when and how to attack his matchup, which is how he was able to make a living at the free throw line the way he did in Orlando.
On the other end of the floor, things weren’t quite as pretty for Forbes. His lateral quickness is already underwhelming, and he didn’t do himself many favors with lack of intensity he showed on this end, giving his man too much space and not really getting into any kind of low defensive stance at times. For someone who projects as more of an off the bench type in the NBA, this is something he’ll have to shore up if he wants to get minutes in the league.
Though he’s a year older than many of his counterparts in this year’s draft at 23, Forbes has solidified himself as an early second-round selection, and if he continues to improve his defense and perimeter shooting, may surprise a lot of people with his ability to contribute at the NBA level.
So, if this stuff it’s true, what does it mean? That the Bulls aren’t going to sign Gordon? That Hinrich, Hughes and Noce - I surely hope so - are going to be trade? Because, if we draft Rose, for wtf do we need another guard?
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on nbadraftnet...
they compare him to Antoine Wright so i dont know if that is good….but if they did draft this guy Kirk, Gordon/Hughes are certainly out of here…. i want them to keep noch he brings intensity and is solid on both ends if not great
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on Jun 11, 2008 9:24 AM CDT 0 recs
Bulls won't be moving anyone just to make room for a second round draft pick
Few second rounders actually make any kind of contribution in the NBA. If the Bulls do draft him, he’ll most likely be at the end of the bench, in street clothes, or in the NBADL.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 11, 2008 9:44 AM CDT
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No one said
that the Bulls are going to move anyone to pick Forbes. What I’m wondering is if the Bulls see Forbes like a backup for the 2 position? After all, apparently JR don’t want to sign to Gordon
When are you going to do something good Pax?
by bull83 on
Jun 11, 2008 9:56 AM CDT
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pull the "up" lever
“but if they did draft this guy Kirk, Gordon/Hughes are certainly out of here”
by hscs on
Jun 11, 2008 10:03 AM CDT
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What I'm saying, is Paxson probably isn't making plans for the roster dependent upon a 2nd round pick.
If he’s drafted, he will be a backup at best his first year. If Hinrich, Hughes, or Gordon is moved during the offseason, it’s highly unlikely to be done because the Bulls have Forbes as a contingency. The backcourt is overloaded as is, so moving one of those guys will just free up playing time for everyone else.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 11, 2008 10:05 AM CDT
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I don't know
If Pax drafts Rose and tries to use Hinrich, or Gordon, or Hughes or anyone else from the 1 and 2 positions to get someone really good, maybe he’s already counting on Forbes to be a backup
When are you going to do something good Pax?
by bull83 on
Jun 11, 2008 10:11 AM CDT
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he'd be dumb.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 11, 2008 10:37 AM CDT
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Easy guys
Drafting a guy in the 2nd round means nothing. No team proabably ever counts on a 2nd rounder to contribute in year 1. If they end up being abe to then it’s a bonus. Once in awhile a team lucks out in the 2nd round, but most 2nd rounders just fill out the 15 man roster if they even make the team at all.
To put it in perspective, Aaron Gray was actually a pretty good 2nd round pick, and I don’t see him ever even being a solid rotation guy. He can make a 12 man roster though and be used when your other bigs are injured or in foul trouble or whatever.
And as much as people hate on Duhon, he’s had a great career for a 2nd rounder. The only other guys taken in round 2 that year that are solidly in the league are Varajeo and Ariza.
So I guess what I’m saying is that you can hope to get lucky in round 2, but more than likely whoever we take won’t ever see any meaningful minutes in the league.
by rb22 on
Jun 11, 2008 10:49 AM CDT
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I would disagree...
Drafting a guy in the 2nd round hardly means “nothing”.
It just seems to be the Bulls who can’t strike the 2nd round gold lately.
To put it in perspective…
Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer, Rashard Lewis, Michael Redd, Manu Ginobili, Cuttino Mobley, Jason Kapono, Monte Ellis, Luke Walton, Steve Blake, Kyle Korver, Rafer Alston, Mehmet Okur, Luis Scola, Bobby Simmons, Brian Scalabrine… All solid contributers from the 2nd round.
Also, here is a link to the NBA “all undrafted team” (fair warning, it lists Ben Wallace at Center, but I think we can all agree he was a beast before the Bulls got him).
http://www.emptythebench.com/2007/03/23/the-nba-all-undrafted-team-1990-2006/
While it’s definitely the exception to the rule to find players like these after the first round, there are still always a few every year. There is no reason to think the Bulls (and almost every other team) won’t pass on one this year too.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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The argument wasn't that there's talent available in the second round
The argument was that it’s not good roster management to expect production from a second round pick.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 11, 2008 2:07 PM CDT
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And I was replying to the statement "Drafting a guy in the 2nd round means nothing".
Is that O.K. with you snley?
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 2:57 PM CDT
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Second round draft pick means nothing in terms of what happens to the rest of the roster
for this offseason at least. I don’t believe the implication was that Bulls should just not bother with making a second round pick because they never pan out.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 11, 2008 3:15 PM CDT
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"whoever we take won’t ever see any meaningful minutes in the league"
How do you explain that one?
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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I said...
“MORE THAN LIKELY whoever we take won’t ever see any meaningful minutes in the league.”
I hope that he does, but you don’t plan your roster around who you draft in round 2, because odds are most of those guys don’t really stick in the league. If they do, it’s a bonus.
by rb22 on
Jun 11, 2008 3:25 PM CDT
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And yet...
EVERY YEAR there is a player taken in the 2nd round (or goes undrafted) that ends up being a starter (sometimes a star).
Maybe we shouldn’t plan on it happening to us, but let’s not count it out ahead of time.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:30 PM CDT
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Well sure
You don’t count it out. You use the pick on the guy that you think has the best chance to help your team. You just don’t make other adjustments to your roster based on that guy being a planned contributor, because the odds are that he won’t.
You obviously try and pick the best guy though and hope that he turns out be be a Boozer, Arenas, Redd, or whatever.
Like I said before, Duhon was actually a great 2nd round pick. Has had arguable the best career so far from his 2nd round draft class… either him or Varejao.
by rb22 on
Jun 11, 2008 3:46 PM CDT
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I see what you are saying...
Not to spurn another debate but Duhon’s 2004 2nd round class was kind of weak IMO. There are better 2nd round examples in the years surrounding it.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:50 PM CDT
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i agree with that...
any smart GM tries to take a player in the 2nd round who can make an impact. But they definitely don’t EXPECT for that player to make an impact.
by swede2287 on
Jun 12, 2008 12:50 PM CDT
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Nor should we look beyond this season I guess.
Is that what you are saying?
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:18 PM CDT
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You shouldn't be looking beyond this season for a second round pick
because you have no idea what, if anything, he’s going to contribute. If you get lucky with a second rounder who actually has something to offer, then you begin to include him as part of your long term plans.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 11, 2008 3:36 PM CDT
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The Celtics have two players...
Drafted in the 2nd round playing HUGE roles off the bench.
Admittedly Eddie House was drafted a million years ago, but Glen Davis is a rookie.
They also have two players starting who were drafted 21st (Rondo) and 27th (Perkins) respectively.
The Lakers meanwhile have Ronny Turiaf coming off the bench playing huge minutes too (not to mention Luke Walton). This is only Turiaf’s third year in the league, if you count the one where he only played 23 games due to heart problems.
I’m just saying, there WILL MORE THAN LIKELY be a player available in the second round that we pass on who could provide an immediate impact. Or we could draft him.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:45 PM CDT
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I don't know how many more ways I can say the same thing
I realize that talent’s available in the second round. It’s just so scarce that you can’t plan on getting it.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 11, 2008 3:50 PM CDT
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You can plan on getting it...
It’s called scouting.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:51 PM CDT
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Dude
This is ridiculous. I don;t know how many more ways we can try nad explain this. That’s all I’ve got.
by rb22 on
Jun 11, 2008 3:53 PM CDT
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We can agree to disagree.
It’s not like I don’t hear what you are saying, I just have a different opinion.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:54 PM CDT
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Even the best scouting finds more misses than hits
If these guys were that obviously talented, they would have been first rounders. The only team that’s consistently succeeded at finding talent in the second round is the Spurs. Most of that success, though, stems from their strategy of drafting foreigners in the second round and being willing to wait years for them to come to the US.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 11, 2008 4:01 PM CDT
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That is true...
Most scouting does provide more misses than hits. But that’s true in the first round as well.
The way some teams draft, the whole thing looks like a crap shoot after about the 15th pick or so (IMO).
Still, even I could tell that Glen Davis would be a solid role player who could fill an immediate role. Same with Ronny Turiaf.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 4:08 PM CDT
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join NBAO's scouting service.
you’re clearly wasting your talents here.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 12, 2008 3:11 PM CDT
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Dear God...
Did I say that I knew how many points/rebounds/blocked shots they would average, what these guys ate for breakfast last week, what they will eat for lunch next tuesday, or how they spend their Sunday afternoons?
It wasn’t that difficult to see that Dorsey and Turiaf had size and enough talent to contribute right away. I just happen to watch college basketball a lot.
Please never compare me to NBAO again.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 13, 2008 10:00 PM CDT
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i do agree with him...
i’m sure GMs put more thought into their 2nd round draft picks than we think. Scouting does enter into that…Paxson might be thinking:
- Joey Dorsey – expect him to be an energy guy, who will bring great defense and toughness off the bench
- Gary Forbes – high IQ player, big shooting guard with scoring ability. Will bring a little scoring and intangibles off the bench.
- Bill Walker – will bring toughness and a nasty-streak off the bench for the Bulls. Will score in transition.
I think Khalid is just trying to say that teams have a method of picking 2nd round picks. And you can expect contributions from 2nd round picks. I agree with that. It would be foolish for a GM to not try and make a pick in the 2nd round that will make an immediate impact.
by swede2287 on
Jun 12, 2008 1:02 PM CDT
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You might also bring a 2nd round guy in
to practice against one of your starters.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 12, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
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Well
We will try and draft one of those players, but if they were that easy to pick out, then they would go in the 1st round.
You can get good players in round 2 obviously, but it’s not easy. Your expectations for who you take should be low. If they pan out, then great.
by rb22 on
Jun 11, 2008 3:51 PM CDT
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Not if you draft for team needs.
That’s why players fall out of the first round, and end up on a team that has an immediate void to fill.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:53 PM CDT
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Team needs...
In the second round.
I never said best player.
It just so happens that sometimes the best player for the team turns out to be the best player avail.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:56 PM CDT
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Not to diminish things
but this has been the funniest BoB skim in ages. Mostly because no one has pulled the trigger on the other yet. Bravo! It is like a Whose on Second skit. :) Miscommunication at its best. Besides the lack of blood spilled yet. Perhaps further down the thread…
by cranscape on
Jun 11, 2008 11:42 PM CDT
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What is on second
Who is on first
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 12, 2008 8:37 AM CDT
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Has Davis played in the Finals yet?
Didn’t House play basically only because Rondo was hurt?
by tyger1147 on
Jun 11, 2008 3:54 PM CDT
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Both House and Davis...
Have had roles in the rotation all year.
Both players provide instant offense when the “Big 3” are tired.
I’m not sure Davis has played as much in the finals to be honest, but he was in the rotation that got them there. Pretty good for a rookie, much less one chosen in the second round.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:59 PM CDT
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House has had a nice career for a 2nd rounder
No one questioned Davis’s talent. There was concern with his height, and more legitimately, concern that he was going to eat himself out of the league ala Oliver Miller and Michael Sweetney. Second round is perfect for taking a risk on a player like that.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Jun 11, 2008 4:05 PM CDT
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also
House & Davis have been in the rotation because there really is no one else. After the Garnett trade where Ainge made a huge trade, thats all that their was left. With R. Allen, Pierce, and Garnett’s contract there was not much room to add depth. They have panned out for a 2nd rd pick, and teams should look as anything you get from a 2nd rd pick is a plus, but cannot count on them to be producitve.
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on
Jun 11, 2008 4:44 PM CDT
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Hughes is worthless, Duhon is probably gone, Hinrich is likely to be traded sooner or later,
Curry is in limbo, and Sefolosha was a bust as a ready-to-contribute guy…
Nothing wrong with drafting another guard.
by hscs on Jun 11, 2008 9:43 AM CDT 0 recs
If he's really as good as advertised...
someone else will take him before our 2nd round pick. But if that many teams pass on him and he does fall to the Bulls, it still doesn’t impact anyone on the roster immediately. 2nd round picks should be used to take the best player available so I like the pick, even if we have a gluttony of guards. Plus, a dominating 2nd round post presence like Aaron Gray only comes along once in a lifetime and we nabbed that bad boy last year! :-P
by smash! on Jun 11, 2008 10:01 AM CDT 0 recs
Forbes's statistical profile
Is awful. He’s 23 years old and was in his fifth year in college this past year (I’m presuming there was a medical redshirt in there). The only things that stand out in a positive way based upon a cursory glance:
(1) Does a good job getting to the line (FTA/FGA ratio)
(2) Pretty good rebounder for a college small forward
(3) Pretty good assist rate for a college small forward
Especially at the margins, college stats can be difficult to work with due to differences in quality of teammates, quality of opponents, and coaching styles. If this is our guy, I’m going to trust Pax on it (PeeOn aside, I do like his track record at identifying guys who can play from those who can’t), but I’m really skeptical of a guy who didn’t have any real value until their fourth and fifth years of college, and whose value then was iffy at best.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on Jun 11, 2008 4:18 PM CDT 0 recs
More on Gary Forbes, from BasketballProspectus.com
From this article:
Forbes is a lunchpail swingman type who can get his own shot (29.1 usage rate) and has solid passing skills, with an assist rate of 17.8 that is nice for a player of his type. He’s also a decent rebounder for his size, leading UMass by grabbing 17.3 of opponents’ misses last season. Forbes could sneak his way into the league if he can guard NBA wing players. Of major concern are the low shooting percentages Forbes posted throughout his four seasons at UMass. As a senior, he shot a 45.7 eFG%, not a good sign. He’s more productive than efficient, averaging 19.4 points, 7.5 rebounds and 3 assists per game but posting an offensive rating of just 99.8. Forbes doesn’t really have that one skill that jumps out at you.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on
Jun 12, 2008 2:08 AM CDT
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no more guards
if anything will would probaby need other center or forward and at the spot we have in the second round there should be a better forward or center prospect.
by FUTURE12 on Jun 13, 2008 5:47 PM CDT 0 recs
Saw Bill Walker injured his knee over the weekend.
He’s already had injuries on that knee.
And the deadline for staying in the draft is tomorrow at 5 p.m.
Ouch.
by swede2287 on Jun 15, 2008 10:26 PM CDT 0 recs
Sounds like the MRI tomorrow will be a big factor
I can’t imagine a team wanting to guarantee a first round spot without knowing how serious the injury is. At least he was smart enough not to hire an agent.
I feel for the guy, though.
Here's to what was suppose to be the most exciting offseason in years, but has instead spiraled downward into pitiful morass of indecision. Cheers!
by wjb1492 on
Jun 16, 2008 12:35 AM CDT
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He's staying in the Draft.
It’s not supposed to be a tear of the MCL or ACL. They’re sending MRI results to teams.
I would think that he got a first round guarantee to stay in.
by swede2287 on
Jun 16, 2008 1:55 PM CDT
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But that's got to make a GM looking at drafting him
to think long and hard.
He’s got some injury history with that knee, and he relies on that explosiveness.
by swede2287 on
Jun 16, 2008 1:56 PM CDT
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Courtney Lee is looking really good for our 2nd round pick.
Check this out:
Worth checking out.
by swede2287 on Jun 17, 2008 12:11 AM CDT 0 recs
He won't be there for the Bulls in the second round.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Jun 17, 2008 1:00 AM CDT
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doesn't look like it
http://www.thirdquartercollapse.com/2008/6/16/553130/orlando-magic-news-for-jun
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Jun 17, 2008 9:46 AM CDT
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Yep his stock has evidently rose, and justifiably so.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-080617
Ford’s got him getting taken at the 22nd pick by the Magic.
by swede2287 on
Jun 17, 2008 12:14 PM CDT
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