Exactly how useful is Hinrich?
by Alighieri on Jun 11, 2008 1:58 AM CDT
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PrintWe've seen Hinrich love and we also have people who think Hinrich is worth as much as Larry Hughes' left knee. Personally, I want Hinrich to stay.
Question is, as what?
In my head, we draft Rose and put Hinrich as a starting 2 with Ben as a 6th Man. What I don't know is whether Hinrich can play the 2. He's a decent ball handler and he has a decent shot when open.
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There's almost no love left for Thabo
Post all-star break last year Thabo shot 49% from the field, 42% from 3’s, and played better than anybody on our team in February… and I haven’t heard anybody call for him to be our starter next year. Why bury the guy right after he made a big step forward?
I see Kirk as a backup at both guard spots next year. He could still play 25-30 minutes a game and earn himself a whole bunch of 6th man votes.
Totally agree
drop Hinrich, his game is just stale at this point. In order to move on and change the team’s identity Hinrich needs to go elsewhere
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 11, 2008 2:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Intresting
I see hinrich starting for at least the first half of the season, because Rose (from what ive read and heard from podcasts) is a bit too raw right now. He may have the physical abilities, but hinrich has the experience of at least starting, and playing with the roster the way it is. It would be hard to not see kirk starting, and its a fans dream to have anything but that happen.
I could see rose taking over near the end of january though, if A) he improves to the level everyone thinks he will be at B)Hinrich slumping truly turns out to be his Norm, or is just not as efficient as rose C)Hinrich gets traded.
For anyone wanting to throw the rose wont develop if he doesnt play thing….Rose nor Hinrich can play 48 min. of basketball. Maybe hinrich has the better chance, but it would never be wise. I see them sharing minutes, something like hinrich getting 25 min, rose picking up 20 and ben gordon or thabo getting the rest of those pg minutes.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
you guys might kill my for saying this but...
after watching thabo play these first two seasons, he reminds my of a young scottie pipen.
I disagree
I think Hinrich should be the PG and Rose the SG.
It would be expecting a lot of Rose to come in and play PG. Ease him into the PG role.
Have him play SG, but let him handle the ball, when Gordon is out there with him.
But I still think Hinrich is nice to have around, he’s a good PG that can help Rose develop.
I don’t get the disdain for Hinrich. He was the face of the franchise for quite some time.
Sure he is overpaid, and he had a pretty bad year.
But with Rose, Gordon, and Thabo, Hinrich doesn’t have to do everything anymore.
For the longest time, the Bulls were asking him to score and guard the other team’s best guard.
Now he doesn’t have to do both.
If he’s out there with Rose/Gordon, he doesn’t have to be the scorer.
If he’s out there with Thabo, he won’t be expected to play the Kobes, Wades, and Pauls.
I don’t think trading Hinrich will help us.
The only guard who should be moved is Hughes.
But I’ll be fine with Hughes being buried on the bench instead.
ummmm
Rose at SG?
Are we trying to neutralize his strengths?
by Rr-R-ROn Har-Rrp-PeR on Jun 11, 2008 4:13 AM CDT up reply actions
WHAUUUUUUUTTT!!!!!!
neither one is a good fit at SG.
If Kirk Hinrich is da face of our franchise...
then we need a face job…..you dont draft d rose to be your future/current franchise pg then play him at SG!! I dont like kirk at the 2 either because we will still have a small backcourt….start Thabo SefoLOSHA!!!!!!!! He is improving on offense can handle the ball drive to the basket his jumpshot is gettin better..and his defense has always been rock solid….a backcout court of Rose and Sefolosha will be scary to game plan against!!! Get kirk outta here!!!! Keep Ben Gordon as your 6th man i predict 45-50 wins.
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
Scary how?
Scary at how the other team will put all 5 of their defenders in the lane trying to make a lineup of Rose, Thabo, Deng, Tyrus, and Noah shoot jumpers? Everybody seems to want to see this lineup and thinks they will be so effective running. I agree that all 5 guys are suited to play up tempo and can all be effective, but they can’t be effective together. Having 5 athletes on the floor who can’ t shoot doesn’t work. Having only 1 player who can create doesn’t work either when the other 4 guys can’t shoot. For Rose to play to his abilities he needs shooters for spacing, and a big to draw attention in the post or on pick & roll/pick & pops. Giving Rose a couple athletes to run the floor and finsh and make energy plays is great, but not 4 of them in the same lineup. If you want Rose to be like Paul and Williams, then take note of who they play with…
Chris Paul has 1 guy like that (Chandler). He then has 2 great 3 point shooters on the wing for spacing (Peja and Peterson), and a scoring big to draw attention and run pick & roll/pick & pop.
Deron Williams has 2 guys like this (Kirilenko and Brewer). He then has a big to space the floor and shoot 3’s (Okur), and a big to run pick & roll/pick pop or post up (Boozer).
We can play these guys (Thabo, Deng, Tyrus, and Noah), but we can’t play them all together, since none can space the floor or create offense on their own. They’re all cutters, mid range shooters, and finishers at the basket. That’s why Gordon or a guy like him is so important, and so is finding a big who is a little more polished on offense.
Unfortunately, many of you think that playing up tempo means that every single possession will be a fastbreak finishing with a dunk. That will hopefully happen some, but that’s not gonna happen every possession.
Deng can't shoot???
His mid range game is on point….I dont know how many games u watched i saw Thabo hittin threes consistently enuff to be a threat and i would start Drew Gooden if we dont trade him….u can end the game with Ben Gordon off the bench
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
Exactly
You said “mid range game.” I said the same thing. Having one guy who can knock down 18 footers isn’t enough to space the floor for a point guard you want to create… and Thabo is far from a consistent 3 point shooter. Lots of guys in the league take and make some open 3’s once in awhile, but that doesn’t really qualify them as 3 point threats who can space the floor. I don’t think any team would hesitate to sag and help off Thabo and give him the open 3 if it means preventing Rose from getting in the lane and making plays.
He hits 20-22 footers, too.
I was just five minutes too late in asking Thorpe what specifically what Deng was working on (Deng and Thomas are ALWAYS the first two to the gym and USUALLY arrive 90-minutes before everyone else), but I would almost guarantee it’s on the 3pt shot. A lot. They have Gooden in the post. Tyrus is serviceable. Noah should improve. Give up the posting.
I’m going to guess/hope that Deng will take at least 2 3pt /g and make 35% next year. Combine that with Gordon, Nocioni and Hinrich, and I think the “spacing” will be just fine.
Right
You said… “with Gordon, Nocioni, and Hinrich, and I think the spacing will be fine.” ... You are correct with that. My whole point was based on the lineup of Rose, Thabo, Deng, Tyrus, and Noah, which so many people want to see. I don’t think you can play all those guys together. Rose is the only one who can create a shot or make plays. I think a better shooter or 2 is necessary as well as a big who is more of a scoring threat than Drew Gooden. Gordon solves the shooting part. Hopefully the big can be addressed in a trade.
And Deng may become a better shooter, but same as what I said for Thabo about him not being a big enough threat to not help off of. He’s still got a ways to go to get to that point. I obviously hope he gets there, but I’m skeptical. I hope he’s working hard at creating his own shot off triple threat too. It would be nice to have one guy on the team who could do that.
And yes, I read the Thorpe chat too.
a team full of shooters
we have the right tools to spread the court. Deng is a good shooter, gooden can hit a 12-15 footer, thabo can consistantly hit the jumper, from any where on the court, tyrus’ jumper is improving and noch can hit from any where on the court too. we have the guys to spread the court but the thing last year was that it seemed like everyone lost confidence in their jumpers and we didn’t have any one who could create for the other guys to get open shots.
so I'm not equally trollsome
82games.com has Hinrich’s PG/SG splits. Old news to most, but have at it.
I see the page.
Would you mind interpreting it? What do you see there that’s particularly revealing or interesting?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
this is trolling, right?
http://www.82games.com/0506/05CHI3C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0607/06CHI3C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHI2C.HTM
(he’s been better as a PG)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 11, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
saying 'better' is an 'intepretation', of course.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 11, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
If you're asking me, the answer is, "no."
What is it, specifically, that he see in these numbers?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Look at the column PER* in he 48 minute production table.
Hinrich consistently played better at PG than SG year after year.
formerly sbulls
PG's are shorter, so Kirk had an easier time.
That doesn’t mean he’s good at PG, or that the answer to the team being better is for Kirk to have a higher PER.
What are you talking about?
When Hinrich was playing PG he was in the backcourt with Gordon so height had nothing to do with his numbers. If you said he played better because he was playing with Gordon then you’d have an argument. If you played close attention to what Kirk’s game then you should realize Kirk is a better PG and the PER split reflects this. Kirk is a far more consistent shooter off the dribble than he is spotting up. He needs the dribble to trigger consistent mechanics. He’s not a SG in terms of being a spotup shooter or coming off screens, outside of that curl at the FT line Skiles used to run for him. Throughout his career his best games have been when he’s has the ball and is aggressive as a PG, not when he’s playing off the ball. As a reminder just look at the games the Bulls won in the Detroit series and the way Hinrich played.
And Hinrich having a lower PER sure isn’t the solution to the team being better.
formerly sbulls
The reason the gap closed was because
Hinrich handled the ball more with Duhon on the floor than he has in the past. When he was at SG with Duhon on the court, Hinrich was acting as the SG on offense less than in the past.
formerly sbulls
Not to single you out, Scotter,
but let me just say that the interpretaion of the data-which you often provide-is what I’m asked for from hscs.
It’s fine (Who am I to judge?) if hscs wants to just throw an attitude out there…and maybe I’m only speaking for myself when I say I sincerely appreciate the stuff Scotter offers—but if there was any question about am I trolling or whatever…I’m not.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Hinrich shouldn't start at the SG.
With our current players, I think that Thabo should start at shooting guard. He has some ability; he showed it at the end of last season. If nothing else, he can be a top-notch defender (which good teams seem to love on their teams).
Ben Gordon is one of the best streaky, “score in bunches” players in this league. I think that he is most valuable coming off the bench with the second unit and putting up bunches of points.
Hinrich would be a good player for the Bulls next season. He would be a superb (albeit overpaid) backup point guard for the Bulls. He could play the SG at times, but his production at that position will just be an added bonus.
I still believe that our best option is to trade Hinrich. He could be a nice player for the Bulls next year. But I do believe that his trade value still is high. Point guards are a hot commodity in this league, and the fact is we’ll have a better point guard than Hinrich next year.
I don't buy this "why bench a guy who's getting paid 11 million"
Nocioni is a bench player and is getting 8 million for no reason. Hinrich can at least provide more as a backup PG to Rose (who won’t be getting major minutes until later in the season if they draft him). If they draft Beasley, well Kirk isn’t going anywhere unless you want Brevin Knight running the point.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
Thank You
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
I'm a fan of the Hinrich Love too
Personally it just feels wrong to have Hinrich not playing for the Bulls. He’s been my favourite Bulls player since he came in.
Frankly, I don’t think Pax will trade him.
1) Pax’s first pick (kinda a symbol of yourself as a GM, if he stinks, the GM must stink)
2) Team Captain/Face of the franchise
3) Kirk’s getting settled
I think last year was a major anomaly. In fact, except for Noc and Joe Smith, EVERYONE on the team pretty much sucks ice.
Hopefully Kirk stays and after some practice time with Rose will turn into a decent 6th man
Either Sue and piccolomair have been voting multiple times....or Kirk just might be appreciated on this site
The amount of Hinrich hate is not proportional to the votes. It would seem a good amount of us are just as confused as what to do with the mopey Iowan.
Unless there’s a deal where a Kirk trade brings in a player that is actually a key addition (Camby is a fine player, but irrelevant for us. I don’t need his great 1-on-1 defense to sacrifice what could be a top 5 defense again next year). I think a bigger priority is getting rid of Nocioni. Why have close to 30 million (estimating Deng makes 10 million a year) tied up in one position? He has value to winning teams (and other teams that just overvalue hustle guys), if we can find a strong backup center or a SG who can basically render Larry Hughes irrelevant the team should trade Noce.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
I think the deal with Camby is he's a horrible 1 on 1 defender
a Peej Brown type of guy would be perfect for the Bulls if he only played 15 minutes per game.
Ehh
I wish i could vote multiple times. Actually im surprised at the numbers myself..pretty even keeled amongst the three choices…odd.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Jun 12, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
come on..
dont you think gordon deserves a starting position by now? statistically he’s better off the bench, but he can play so much better than hughes.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious."
I think if you just look at BG and ignore who's at PG,
then yes, he absolutely deserves to start. And I thought he and Kirk did really well as a starting backcourt the previous year, and he deserved the start there last year over a Du/Kirk combo or a Kirk/Larry combo. My only concern for the coming year, if Rose is drafted, is a Rose/BG backcourt defensively. Rose is actually smaller than Kirk and currently has some weaknesses on defense, and if he starts I’d hate to see him trying to learn the offense, play PG and guard the opposing SG. Maybe it would work fine, but I’ll have to see it to believe it.
I’d prefer to start the season with Kirk and BG starting, actually, and Rose getting plenty of minutes off the bench (Thabo plenty as well between SG and SF). But that gets us back into the argument of whether you have to start a #1 pick, which has been argued to death already.
Here's to what was suppose to be the most exciting offseason in years, but has instead spiraled downward into pitiful morass of indecision. Cheers!
Rose/Thabo won't make the team better
because Thabo would be the fourth best guard on the team if Rose is drafted, he shouldn’t be getting starter’s minutes
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I'm convinced Thabo should get steady, fairly significant minutes,
Minimum 20 minutes for him going forward, all things being equal. I’m not convinced he can start yet, particularly not until/unless others in that lineup develop into much better offensive threats. BG and Kirk did well together when the team was on the same page. And, as I said, I’m only talking start of season right now. The Bulls have obviously proven quite capable of changing starters mid-season. I’d rather see Rose, Ty and Thabo take over the starting spots later than have a situation like with Tyrus last year where one of the kids gets demoted if the team starts slowly.
But mostly, I was responding to a comment about BG starting, and if you go Rose/Thabo you still have BG coming off the bench (or I guess in that scenario he could be completely gone).
Here's to what was suppose to be the most exciting offseason in years, but has instead spiraled downward into pitiful morass of indecision. Cheers!
I'm also convinced and what's more...
Del Negro seems to be convinced based on his press conference.
HE IS TOO SMALL TO PLAY SG!!!!!
Im sick of the seein ben gordon or kirk gettin abused by the bigger SG…either start Thabo or Hughes at the 2
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
YET THE BULLS STILL LED THE NBA IN DEFENSE STARTING HINRICH AND GORDON
I can yell too
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I'm just sayin....
They were a good defense two yrs ago with the small backcourt…imagine how good they would be if the had size in the backcourt!!
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
It'd be nice if they had a more ideally sized back court
It’d also be nice if they could score. In the end, the only real evaluation that matters is, does the team score more points than it allows. As the roster currently exists, they need as much help as the offensive end as possible, even if that does make things a little more difficult on the defensive end.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
offense isnt really the problem.....(well they need a consistent inside scorer)
this past yr they scored one less point per game…but gave up 7 more a game
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
Offense has been a problem for 10 years now
True, they fell from 1st in defensive efficiency to 14th. That’s likely to be remedied simply by not having Skiles and __ no longer on the sidelines and players actually giving full effort. Not to mention, there won’t be any minutes wasted on non-jumping, no effort post players who’s value was entirely tied into their jumping and effort. I don’t think this team will finish atop the NBA in defense, but they’re likely to finish top 10 or even top 5. On the offensive end, they finished 26th, a drop from 21st the year before. Limiting Gordon’s minutes probably results in a further drop or, at best, staying near the bottom of the NBA offensively.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Is good offense more difficult to coach/play than good defense?
If yes, does that imply a greater premium to playing good offense? In other words, since it’s harder to do, is it worth relatively more if you can be one of the few teams that do it well?
What I might be asking is that if good defense is primarily about effort, while good offense is mostly about talent, does it make sense to draft for the player (Beasley or Rose) that will bring the best offensive potential?
Paxson did mention that Beasley can flat out score, and that there’s a terrific premium for guys who can score in the league. OR…will Rose be the guy who can raise the overall team offense to a higher level than Beasley could…keeping in mind the double-teams, etc, that Beasley would routinely demand?
Maybe the Bulls experience isn’t the norm?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Excellent questions for analysis.
I think the Bulls will be analyzing which player provides the best overall raise in total offense in their selection. Based on my interpretation of the VDN conferences, the Bulls are looking to continue to develop and build a championship team with “their” players; which I felt meant the ones they have drafted since Paxson was the GM. If this truly is the case, they might be looking at which player fits their need at a star level.
That goes back to the theory of do you draft for a need or do you draft for the talent. Fortunately, it looks like the top players in this draft are all very talented and don’t appear to be busts. If Beasley and Rose both are non-bust, potential perennial all-star players, then the Bulls should draft Beasley for the need of a scorer that can score down low or in a double team. I think that improves the offense in their current roster greater than bringing in a young PG that you would have to rebuild around to reach the greatest heights with.
I’m more about winning next year/now then trying to win in 3 years. Why shouldn’t the Bulls organization be planning for moves that make the team an ECF this next year.
Because your best players are all still under the age of 25.
Getting to the ECF isn’t the goal. Becoming a championship contender is. That means developing the talent on the team to get to that level, especially next season.
formerly sbulls
Good Defense leads to good offense....
I’m not sure how Beasely will translate on the denfensive end but ive heard that might be one of his weaknesses….D Rose is solid on defense and can facilitate on offense and eventually develop the rest of his offensive game…he will be good right away on the transition game…so thats where defense comes in…picture this…Wade drives to the basket…shot blocked by Tyrus…scooped up by Deng….out to D Rose …option 1 break down d layup/dunk…option 2 alley oop to Noah/Tyrus….option 3…drive kick to ben Gordon for the 3…Man i cant wait for next season!!!!!!!!!!!!
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
I don't know how solid Rose is on D
Most scouting reports say he has a ton of work to do on his lateral quickness and defensive footwork.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 16, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
If you don't think offense is a problem....I don't know
This team has struggled to score points in an efficient way for 10 seasons. The lapse in defense last year stemmed from the players quitting on the season early on. Teams that play great defense are ones that put forth that extra effort, and it just wasn’t there for the Bulls. To use last year and ignore the previous 3 seasons of defensive greatness is weird. Kirk and BG and Duhon were all playing more than enough minutes at the guard positions, yet the Bulls still led the league in defensive FG%. Limit Ben’s minutes to play Thabo and Hughes, I don’t think the Bulls can score 90 ppg.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 12, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
offense is the problem
we don’t have a player who can create, so that’s why people say we need a inside scorer to kick the ball out to open shooters.
Well, a low post scorer
that commands a double team should free an open player outside of the paint area. I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic :)
What about offense?
The Rose, Thabo, Deng, Tyrus, Noah lineup would have us averaging about 10 points in 1st quarters.
That's a huge leap of faith
And definitely not happening in his rookie season.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 13, 2008 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I HATE A SHOOTING GUARD WHO CAN'T SHOOT!!!
blah blah blah, wah wah wah
The prerequisites for nearly any shooting guard (not all, of course) especially on a team w/o much scoring should be: A) able to score a lot and B) score efficiently and C) on a consistent basis. Hughes and Thabo don’t satisfy those requirements right now. Gordon does.
I agree with those prerequisites,
but you should add the ability to drive to the hoop for dunks/layups, able to finish, and ability get to the line by causing the other team to foul you while you are driving/shooting/laying it up. Gordon does not do those three very well.
Well, you're asking for the "perfect" shooting guard (on offense).
I’m only asking for the necessities.
I mean, should I just list all the things any player doesn’t do well, and then imply he’s not good enough?
No he shouldn't start
simply because how valuable a bench player he is. He can “score in bunches” better than anyone – and that’s so valuable with a backup guard. Starting him doesn’t increase his offensive numbers that much, and it emphasizes his lack of size and defense. Start Thabo.
So start Thabo....yet play Ben more minutes?
Is that where we are at now? I just don’t see why Gordon can’t start and play 30-35 minutes a game, depending on how well he is shooting, and use Thabo as the energy/defense player that he is. Automatically giving Thabo more minutes won’t make him more effective, giving him consistent playing time is the key. Larry Hughes is a 3rd guard and should never play except in cases of foul trouble or injury. This team is so young, you don’t need 5 guard rotations.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 12, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
The unknown x in that equation
is whether Reinsdorf is truly planning to not-sign Gordon. I think we’ll get to see fairly early on, simply based on is Gordon starting or not.
If Gordon is not in Reinsdorf’s future plans, and the Bulls aren’t able to move him before the season begins, I can’t see Gordon playing ahead of Thabo. Gordon’s status would be strictly relegated to that of a low-minutes, change-of-pace player.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
My lineup would be....
Rose, Thabo, Deng, Gooden, Noah…Gooden would be a descent if not great inside presence can get u some points inside…deng can hit a few mid range js…noah a few offensive put backs…and Thabo and Rose can drive to the hoop and get to the line
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
Mine would be...
If we’re basing it on drafting Rose, Duhon leaving in free agency, and the rest of the guys remaining the same then I’d go…
1 Rose (28 mins/gm)
2 Gordon (32)
3 Deng (32)
4 Gooden (30)
5 Noah (30)
Rotation – Hinrich (28), Tyrus (28), Nocioni (20), Thabo (12)
If we’re breaking down further this would be my plan:
1. Rose – 28 mins
Hinrich – 20 mins
2. Gordon – 32 mins
Hinrich – 8 mins
Thabo – 8 mins
3. Deng – 32 mins
Nocioni – 12 mins
Thabo – 4 mins
4, Gooden – 12 mins
Tyrus – 28 mins
Nocioni – 8 mins
5. Noah – 30 mins
Gooden – 18 mins
Tyrus and Kirk would be the main rotation guys coming in first. Noce and Thabo would be the next guys in the rotation. Obviously the minutes would vary based on opponent, fouls, who’s playing well, matchups, etc., but I think it helps to have a model to base your rotations to give guys an idea of how much and when they will be playing. In-game adjustments would then be made accordingly.
I hope this isn’t our roster come beginning of the season though. I’d like to see a change or 2, but I think this is a potential lower seeded playoff team.
Also, I didn’t include Hughes, because I think he should be traded, moved to the end of the bench, or bought out. I realize trading would be difficult, and a buyout would be eating 2 years of his contract, but I don’t think he helps them win now, and I don’t think he helps with what they’re trying to build. Maybe if Kirk gets traded, Gordon and Gordon goes elsewhere then we find a way to play him some and get the most out of him, but if this is our roster then I think he’s useless.
One difference...
Give Noah 2 more mins at C, Gooden 2 less there but 4 more at PF, give Thomas 4 more at PF and take Nocioni completely out of the PF rotation.
Just my opinion, though.
Pretty close in opinion then
I think all 9 of those guys deserve some minutes though, so that was the best I could divide them up.
As for Noce at the 4, I think all teams go small for at least portions of games when they need more offense. Alot of teams actually close games with smaller lineups. Playing Noce at the 4 gives us more shooting when we need it.
I like this set-up a lot
Although tyger is right, we don’t need Noce at the 4, unless we are playing a team like the Raptors or Warriors.
I do think that Aaron Gray does deserve some minutes, only because I’m leery of having Gooden as the backup C. Bigger teams like the Celtics, Lakers with Bynum, can abuse Noah and Gooden down low with just brute force attacks from people like Kendrick Perkins. They can get into quick foul trouble, throwing in Gray gives us a little weight to throw around and offsets potential foul trouble.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 12, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
I think Gray would be the next big to play in case of fouls, matchups or whatever. I just don’t think he’d be an every game rotation guy if everyone is healthy.
Gooden can play C when paired with the right PF
He’s only an inch shorter than Noah and about 15 lbs heavier. Gray should play as little as possible.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Thabo needs more time.
Also I don’t like Gooden ever playing the C position.
I prefer Thabo starting – with Gordon coming off the bench but still getting as many, if not more, minutes.
Our lineup needs some tweaking – we need to add a player through free agency or trade. Our current 4’s and 5’s aren’t going to strike fear in any teams.
Drive to the hoop?
You can’t drive to the hoop when the other team packs in their defense, because you have no shooters on the floor. Put Gordon in there and bring Thabo off the bench when he’s needed for certain defensive matchups.
The best guys in the league at penetrating and making plays all have a big time 3 point shooter or 2 in their starting lineup that the defense can’t help off of. Deng, although a nice mid range shooter who can hopefully improve his 3 point shot, is not one of those guys yet, and neither is anybody else in your lineup. See examples…
Kobe – Fisher, Radmanovic
LeBron – Wally, West
Paul – Peja, Mo Pete
Williams – Okur
Parker – Finley
Most of those guys also have a big in their lineup who demands a double team and/or one who the opposing big can’t leave on pick & roll/pick & pops. I guess Gooden is the closest thing we have to that, but this isn’t worth an argument, because we can’t fix this unless we trade. The 3 point threat can be fixed simply by starting Gordon and not Thabo.
if we got Rose
would u rather trade for another 3pt shooter that has size in the backcourt or a better inside presence…in a perfect world we can get both without givin up alot but thats easier said than done
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
beasley
gives you both….just saying…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Jun 12, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Beasely wouldnt play in the backcourt...he isnt a inside scorer either...
he is a face up guy on the wing more than he is a back to the basket guy and a tweener i think we already have enuff of those
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
Heh
would u rather trade for another 3pt shooter that has size in the backcourt or a better inside presenceBeasley is already a good three point shooter (according to draft express, when he was at the camp in orlando he wowed people with his fluid shooting from behind the nba 3 pt line) and though he may not be a traditional back to the basket player, he will still give you an inside scoring threat because he can go down there and score (when the kobe rumors were running around, kobe was thought to have been able to supply us with similar inside presence, not that beasley is at kobes level, but as big as he is, he can just force himself down there, and his body control supposedly will allow him to finish) thus beasley can do both, score from beyond the arch, and in the paint. If you like ben gordon then consider beasley to be ben gordon at the power forward position, undersized perhaps, but has a killer instinct to score in many ways.
and sorry i dont know how to get rid of the boxquote thingy…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
I suck at formatting?
That first line is supposed to be the quote from Yep…the rest of it was what i was writing but for whatever reason it also got sucked into its own text box….hope that helps…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
beast...ley can do it all
in the post, drive to basket, face up jumper from all most any where
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