Your Friday coaching search update
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2008 8:08 AM CDT
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PrintThe honors today go to Mike McGraw of the Daily Herald:
A league insider believes the Bulls are comfortable choosing between D'Antoni and Johnson, two former NBA coach of the year winners.
If neither works out, they'll likely wait to talk to Boston assistant Tom Thibodeau and Detroit assistant Michael Curry, who are both busy with the playoffs. Thibodeau has been mentioned as a possible replacement for D'Antoni in Phoenix.
...
Once Skiles was hired by the Milwaukee Bucks, the Bulls should have been off the hook for his remaining salary. As it turned out, the Bulls will pay Skiles $3 million more than they needed to, but that in itself won't effect the current coaching search.
The Bulls don't want to sign anyone for five years because most NBA coaches don't last that long. Neither D'Antoni nor Johnson made it five full years with their previous teams, though D'Antoni could technically still return to the Suns.
D'Antoni is known for running a fast-paced offensive attack. The Bulls would mostly likely ask that he keep a veteran assistant coach on staff to focus on defense and recommend holdover Ron Adams for the role.
Good to know that at least in one reporter's eyes, the Skiles money isn't holding the Bulls back. And not wanting to give a coach a 5-year contract is certainly reasonable. Marc Stein reports that the Knicks will offer 5 years, with the Bulls giving their proposal by "Sunday at the latest". Stein's e-buddy Ric Bucher says that D'Antoni's leaning towards the Knicks, yet "sources close to the process contend D'Antoni remains determined to go to Chicago as long as the Bulls assemble a quality offer."
So, whatever. What's more important to get to the bottom of is finding out what kind of spell Ron Adams has over this organization. Why have any holdovers at all?
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The Bulls, well, Reinsdorf, really,
has a lot to decide right now.
I don’t play poker, but it feels a little like one of those "All In" moments you see on TV. Reinsdorf probably has to go 5 years and 30 million for D’Antoni…and at the same time make big decisions, probably 5 year commitments, on both Gordon and Deng.
How good does he think this hand will be? Good enough to win? If he doesn’t think he can win by re-signing Gordon and Deng, paying D’Antoni—and placing his blind faith in Paxson—he will likely fold and wait for the next deal.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Will he go 4 years 7 million,
and pay him Rick Adelman money?
It seems to me that implicit in the Knicks offering 5 years is that they want D’Antoni there in two years when the superstars start coming available to entice these guys to New York. They’re willing to pay up front for the opportunity.
It also will take two years to get the deadwood off their roster, and in the meantime they’ll likely get two more lottery picks. It’s a good, forward-thinking plan by Walsh.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
it actually lacks foresight
5 years with one team is a best case scenario for a coach. They just don’t last that long, and the Knicks should know, because they keep paying coaches to not coach.
exactly
Brown lasted 1 season, Isaiah 2…what makes D’Antoni any different? The most I would go would be 4 years.
I get what you're saying.
Obviously, Walsh thinks D’Antoni is a solid, long-term bet.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
alec wake up
Walsh knows he has to offer 5 years for D’Antoni to even consider the deal because it is going to take two years just to strip down and rebuild the roster. Walsh can’t hold the coach accountable for their for at least those two years, and probably a third.
2008 or bust.
No, he's on second
I feel like I am sinking in a pile of BaB guano and alec is pushing me under with a stick…
2008 or bust.
heh
you are truly inscrutable today.
Hey, it’s not me. Walsh has turned the pressure way up on the Bulls. He’s playing a high stakes game, and Reinsdorf has to decide if he wants to play at the big boy’s table or maybe find a more comfortable spot where the bets are smaller.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
True.
Maybe there’s another Phil Jackson hiding in the peanut gallery.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
now you are projecting alec
I am inscrutable?....
If D’Antoni was Pax’s first choice Pax would have already made the offer. The fact that Pax is letting the Knicks make their offer shows that he knows both that D’Antoni would rather coach in Chicago, and that he isn’t that worried about losing him to the knicks.
2008 or bust.
I don't think Pax has a first choice.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought you were reading all the 'reports'
Because the latest is the Knicks haven’t offered anything.
http://www.northjersey.com/sports/knicks/18792929.html
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix0509,0,1747933.story
What, me read?
nah. I said I heard it on the radio. But I will now read your links.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
OK. I read 'em.
Don’t you wish you could write this crap…and get paid for it? What a life.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
and I doubt they offer 6 million per
alec, why do you think the bulls are the desperate ones in this deal?...
2008 or bust.
From what I heard on the radio
the offer from the Knicks is now on the table.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Not sure what you mean.
Can you give me a little more meat on those bones?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Reinsdorf probably has to go 5 years and 30 million for D’Antoni…
that’s wrong, too long and too much money.
2008 or bust.
Or he could go 4 and 7, a la Adelman.
This makes the contract pretty much equal to the Knicks’ offer…more money in less time, but less money in the long run.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
wow
The Bulls. Do. Not. Have. To. Offer. That. Many. Years. Or. That. Much. Money. Their. Offer. Can. Be. BOTH. For. Fewer. Years. And. Fewer. Dollars.
2008 or bust.
Well
I’m guessing we can agree that Skiles 4/18 is a likely floor. Maybe 4/20? 4/21? Slight raise over what he’s getting now for a fresh start in the East with a good young team in a big market? If he is able to rejuvenate the Bulls, he’ll be able to get a big raise at the end of that deal.
Ah, who the hell knows.
Yes we can. Yes we can hire D'Antoni. Yes we can.
Scoing 109 points/game is change we can believe in.
Ron Adams
Like Matt says, how does he keep sticking around? Obviously the org can’t do any worse without him, so what is the deal?
They're treating Adams like he's Johnny Bach
He’s no Johnny Bach. What the heck makes Adams so special?
Adams has long been considered
a top notch assistant. It’s why Pax hired him – he thought Cartwright’s assistants stank. Whatever went wrong with the Bulls, Adams probably wasn’t too blame. He coached under George Karl, helped coach the national Canadian basketball program and was a head coach oversees.
by KT on May 9, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I see your point
And I’m not saying he is the blame, but he isn’t the solution. Like I said before, it’s not like much progress has been made with him. What is wrong with starting with fresh assistants?
If Paxson doesn't hire D'Antoni...
then I’m off the Paxson train. After being the ’;ikely destination’ of Kevin Garnett and Pau Gasol, then having Kobe Bryant say on camera he wants to go to the Bulls – and losing out on all of them on our way to a 33 win season – if we can’t land D’Antoni, who wants to be here and is a top-tier coach, then why are we paying Paxson to do nothing?
I’ve been a big Pax guy from the beginning, but it’s almost six years into his tenure and we have zero top 75 players, and our latest coach was Jim Boylan. This hurts.
How many former players are successful general managers in the long run?
I need to be schooled on this, but off the top of my head I can think of Jerry West and Joe Dumars.
the freakin' browser histories around here
by hscs on May 9, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the link
That was a good read.
by NBA Observer on May 9, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Excellent article. Great find.
Thanks.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Agree 100%
This is my last straw with Paxson. I don’t see any quality coaches out there besides Mike D. D’Antoni wants to come here. We need someone to shape Tyrus and Noah, and BG and Deng for that matter, into better offensive players. I think taking a risk on an assistant coach with no head coaching expierence (Celtics’ Thibodeau) is a ridiculous move. We do not have time to let a coach grow into something. We need someone who can make a difference now. And Frankly, I’m not sold on Avery Johnson and I don’t know why everyone else is. He was handed a 50+ team win from Nellie. All he’s managed to do is let them lose a 2-0 lead in the finals, get beat by the 8th seed, barely make the playoffs and get trashed by the Hornets. D’Antoni or bust
by The90sBullsRevival on May 9, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
you think D'Antoni is the guy to shape Tyrus and Noah
when one of the big criticisms is that he won’t discipline Amare?
2008 or bust.
isn't it conflicting attributes
in a coach to not have to ‘grow into something’ yet also spend their time to ‘shape’ the roster?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Amare
has seemed to turn out pretty fine by me. I can’t speak of discipline issues, but the guy is a great player. Tyrus, an “athlete” would seem to fit well into D’Antoni’s system of run and gun. He can make plays in transition rather than having to post up. So perhaps I misspoke. Mike D may not develop him into a great power foward, but his style of play would get the most out of what Tyrus currently is. And I’d say the same for Noah.
I find its rare for an Assistant Coach to make an impact right away. Having someone new to the job I don’t think is what the Bulls need. And I think D’Antoni shaping the roster would happen over the summer and training camp. I just imagine there would be a longer adjustment period for a new coach. Perhaps I’m wrong.
by The90sBullsRevival on May 9, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
You should give Avery some credit
He didn’t just take over for a good Don Nelson team. He took over for a good Don Nelson team and made them a much better defensive team carrying them as far as 67 regular season wins, a finals appearance, and all without Steve Nash a very important note in my book.
The last two seasons playoff performances were just too poor to retain him especially with rising teams in the west and an aging rosters suddenly much older with the arrival of Kidd and the departure of Harris and Diop.
I think that's a good point
That Mavericks team that went to the Finals had a core of Dirk, Terry, Josh Howard, Stack, Marquis Daniels, Devin Harris, and Erick Dampier. In other words, that team was crap, yet they knocked off the Spurs and Suns en route to the Finals. Maybe Avery deserves a bit more credit than I’ve given him.
However, I’m not convinced that Avery made them a better defensive team. Remember the Mavs starting 5 from Nelly’s last full season as coach? PG Nash, SG Finley, SF A. Walker, PF Dirk, C Fortson. I mean, that’s the worst defensive team in the NBA, regardless of coach. Maybe it wasn’t Avery’s defensive stalwartness that improved their defense as much as it was a major overhaul of their roster.
So yes, that Finals run was impressive, and yes I think Avery’s a capable coach, but I don’t see anything special about him; certainly not D’Antoni caliber, at least.
just because there were reports that the Bulls were a 'likely destination'
for Garnett, Bryant, etc. doesn’t make it true. (especially for those two)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
It may not have been "true"
But the end result is both Garnett and Gasol got traded for poo poo platter and look where their new teams are now. (granted pierce, allen, kobe). Paxson and Reinsdorf just didn’t get it done. Maybe I can take a pass with Garnett if Ainge and Mchale had a buddy buddy thing going on, but I don’t see the excuse for Gasol. If it came down to us not having an expiring contract I think that still falls on Paxson for not being able to re-sign PJ, or trading him for a contract that would expire the end of this year. I was on board for the Wallace signing as well Matt, but the fact remains we have ended up getting what in return for Chandler, a top 5 pick? A 2nd round draft pick from the nuggets for JR smith? Who, btw, while has issues and we are loaded at the guard spot, torched it up this year from behind the line. Clearly worth more than a 2nd rounder.
by The90sBullsRevival on May 9, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
you're right on Gasol
and Chandler as well. Both were done for luxury tax reasons. I didn’t have a big problem with ‘dumping’ Chandler because otherwise they’d be paying $25m a season for guys who can’t shoot.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
in what world is al jefferson a poo poo platter? i would kill for the bulls to have him.
i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.
by MarketMaker on May 10, 2008 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions
You should read Canis Hoopus
the Twolves SBnation blog. RIght now they’re talking about centers in the draft that will compliment Al Jefferson. They’re discussing all of Al’s weaknesses and how they have to be downplayed through a strong center that will rebound, play defense, and keep their defender on him to prevent them from leaking over to double Al in the post.
In short, Al Jefferson needs another 5-7 million dollar center to help spell his ineffectiveness.
by NBA Observer on May 10, 2008 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I seem to recall the same things being said about Shaq throughout his career
Jefferson, obviously, is no Shaq, but he’s a hell of a piece to rebuild around.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
A $5-7M center is pretty average
If T-Wolves fans are that down on him, I’d be happy to offer them the #9 pick so they can have a truely strong center like DeAndre Jordan or Roy Hibbert. Heck, they can have Tyrus too. I’ll be happy to hang with Jefferson, Gooden and Noah as my primary bigs.
My post wasn't to suggest that Al Jefferson is out in Minnie
What I was trying to say was that in the case of many big men in the NBA you need two of them with complimenting traits because it’s rare to find one big that does many things well. Furthermore, since the bigs bear the brunt of the contact in the paint, to have one big with all the skills may not be such a great strategy because they will eventually end up in foul trouble.
So, No, Wolves fans are not sour on Jefferson at all. They are just approaching the draft and free agency with the primary goal to secure a player with strengths to compliment their franchise player.
When we review Tyson Chandler I think we often overlook the fact that it’s infinitely more difficult to secure a big to compliment a strong defensive player by acquiring a strong offensive big since they are so difficult to find and usually far too expensive to acquire.
by NBA Observer on May 10, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
My choices are D'Antoni and then Thibodeau
After reading this “roundtable”, it made me realize how stacked a number of teams are. Sure, there wasn’t any new information, but having it all one place hit home two things: a) the Bulls aren’t gonna win a title in the next 2-3 years (duh, I know) and B) short of getting one of the very best players in the game, one player won’t make this team that much better in the near future.
Because of that, I’m fully on-board for getting a “development guy” to run the team for a few years. If he has the X’s and O’s down, too, fine, he sticks on. If not, get a new coach in three years. I don’t think that’s the end of the world.
So, if it’s true that D’Antoni would bring Phil Weber with him, and, despite my cynical comments, if Thibodeau is another developmental and all-around nice guy like D’Antoni (meaning he’s the opposite of Skiles), I’d take either of them. I’d only take D’Antoni first because he’s a “proven” head coach, and I want to see a fun exciting team, not one that just “wins”. (although, that’s obviously the most exciting thing there is).
Why Thibodeau?
From what I’ve witnessed, the best former-assistant-coaches in sports are those who studied under a top tier coach (see: Greg Popovich under Larry Brown, Rudy Tomjanovich under Bill Fitch, and in football, Bill Belichick under Bill Parcells).
Tom Thibodeau has studied under Jerry Tarkanian, Rex Hughes, John Lucas, Jeff Van Gundy, and Doc Rivers – not exactly a who’s who of NBA coaches. And while he may be a defensive genius, who knows how he’ll be able to control of locker room, motivate his players, and plan on the offensive end? Jim Boylan was a well-regarded, longtime NBA assistant who obviously knew the game, but his inability to lead a team made his run a complete failure. It’s not enough that Thibodeau is just a defensive genius.
Gimme something more than what you "witnessed"...
...and I’ll consider reading the rest of your comment.
From what I’ve witnessed,
Jesus Saves!—or so Avery would have us believe.
Maybe what we really need is a ‘re-birthing’ of the Chicago Bulls, and Avery’s just the man for the job!
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Hey dick,
Unless you have expert sources around the league, anything you type on this forum is what you’ve witnessed. Get a clue, and if you disagree with my point, list a few successful coaches that started out as assistants to hacks.
Somehow, even though you haven’t ‘witnessed’ Thibodeau as a head coach before, you’re touting him as a D’Antoni-level coach based on one article that describes how good an assistant he is. So maybe I was wrong about you writing what you’ve witnessed, it seems that you like formulating opinions without actually seeing people perform or thinking for yourself.
Here's one for you
Tom Landry and Vince Lombardi were assistants for the NY Giants in the 50’s. Name the head coach.
Almost all head coaches spend time as assistants. Great coaches are great because the recognize talent in players as well as in the assistants they hire. Great coaches also have great teams and bad teams figure they can be like the great team by hiring the great teams’ assistant coaches. There are so many factors at play in here that your observation has little validity w/out some serious studying that goes beyond what you’ve witnessed.
BTW, how the hell is Bill Fitch than JVG? The man finished his career with a losing record.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Well, if Fitch is a worthy mentor
then it goes without saying that Doug Collins has his own bag of “great head coach” dust that he must have sprinkled on Phil.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Well, right
Phil Jackson was a head coach originally. It’s not so much where you were a head coach as much as if you have experience leading a locker room. Same goes for someone like Larry Brown who made his first marks in college and the ABA.
As far as Landry and Lombardi goes, the 1950s were before my time, but the head coach Jim Howell had a pretty impressive record (53-27 with a championship), and had a winning record in all seven seasons. Maybe he wasn’t a Hall of Famer but it doesn’t seem like Howell was a slouch.
And I’m saddened by the lack of love for Bill Fitch… he was Larry Brown before Larry Brown. He inherited a 15 win Cavs team and turned them into a 49 win team. Then he made a 61 win Celtics team into an NBA champion a year later. Then he turned a 29 win Rockets team into a 51 win team. Then he turned a 17 win Nets team into a 40 win team. And finally he turned a 17 win Clippers team into a 36 win playoff team back in1997. So it’s true he has a career losing record, but he turned every team he coached into a playoff team. There aren’t many coaches with his resume, and JVG isn’t one of them.
Speaking of the HoF
Maybe "Coaches Sired" should be on the list of coach-eligible criteria for the HoF.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
I'm sure Fitch was a fine coach
There’s no reason, though, to dismiss JVG’s career and say he’s not worthy of being a mentor to a good coach.
Also, I think you’re claiming causality for something that is more likely due to coincidence and circumstance.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Fair enough
My beef with JVG is that I don’t think he made his teams better, he just maintained a pretty good level of performance, but you’re right, he’s a decent coach. And it’s possible that Thibodeau could be a very good coach, the point of my original post was to simply question Thibodeau, as several posters were putting him in the elite class without his actually coaching anybody.
I do think, however, that it is causality, and for two reasons. 1) You learn from imitating what works, and when assistants get a chance to see a master coach a team to success, it makes it that much easier to succeed when they get their own team. 2) If you’re a great head coach, you’re probably surrounding yourself with top assistants not named Ron Adams or Pete Myers. So someone like Popovich was not only talented to begin with, but he got to learn from a Larry Brown to work out the kinks.
There’s a reason why you see those expansive coaching trees in the NFL (stemming from Mike Holmgren, Bill Walsh, and Bill Parcells) with the majority of the offspring being successful. Coaching is more than just X’s and O’s assistant stuff, and it seems having a great mentor can be the difference between winning and losing at the head coaching level.
Guess I see it as more of a nature/nurture thing
You’re right, great coaches will surround themselves with great assistants. At the same time, it’d be silly to reject the notion that good head coaches act as role models and mentors for their assistants. So the question becomes, how much of the assistant’s future success is due to natural talent his “mentor” originally recognized and how much is due to what he learned from the “mentor.” Plus, don’t forget that the vast majority of those former assistants fail. As to the NFL, it’s widely known as a copycat league and I think the coaching trees are as much evidence to that as they are to good coaches make good assistants into good coaches.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I'm guessing that even Landry and Lombardi
rubbed shoulders with some pretty good coaching talent somewhere in their backgrounds.
As a joke, I was going to mention Weeb Ewbank…but after some preliminary research, found that he’d assisted Paul Brown at the Great Lakes Naval Station during WW2.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Which brings us back to
Phil Jackson and Brian Shaw
Brian Shaw
I’d like to talk more about him. I’m reading he interviewed for the Kings job, but it appears the Maloofs wanted Stan Van Gundy all along. That didn’t work out when Orlando had to recover from their Donovan experience and rushed, in a wise way, to secure SVG for themselves.
Later the Kings interviewed Reggie Theus and came away very impressed and hired him soon thereafter.
So why didn’t they select Shaw? Maybe they were just interviewing him to elevate his coaching stock, but they must have seen something. Perhaps the triangle?
by NBA Observer on May 9, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I see through you, Observer.
Anything to get the triangle back on the front page. ;-)
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
California Al
Are you there?? We need some help here!
Recalling Thibodeau's coaching auction last year
Much more to be read, but a cursory glance doesn’t show Thibodeau as a high demand head coaching candidate last season.
05/20/2007: JVG out in Houston. Adelman hired as the new head coach. Houston writers encourage the Rockets to retain Thibodeau. Thibodeau interviews for the Kings job with Geoff Petrie.
06/20/2007: Sacramento Kings hire Reggie Theus after first choice Stan Van Gundy accepts Orlando job.
07/03/2007: Thibodeau is hired by the Washington Wizards as an assistant to Eddie Jordan.
07/08/2007: Thibodeau changes his mind and declines to join the Wizards’ staff.
07/31/2007: Celtics complete trade for Kevin Garnett
08/27/2007: Celtics sign James Posey.
08/30/2007: Celtics hire Thibodeau as an assistant coach.
Now, for the Bulls we know that Thibodeau has a track record of success in multiple stops, with very different players, but in these same stops he has been working with some of the best individual defensive players in the NBA. I’m talking about Kevin Garnett, James Posey, Shane Battier, Marcus Camby, Kurt Thomas, Dikembe Mutombo. That very brief one week with the Wizards may just speak for itself. Can you name one solid individual defender on the Wizards? 24th, 28th, 22nd, and 20th. That’s where the Wizards finished in NBA defensive ratings over the last four seasons.
While I think Thibodeau would be a good head coach(the Yao Ming stuff is really good), I also can’t avoid thinking he’s just an opportunist that needs lots of roster movement to help him get to where he wants to go.
hey, luckily the Bulls have a group of good defenders.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
But our Bulls Offense sucks
and this is troublesome. Bulls have loads of offensive challenged players. While Thibodeau sounds good based on defense and player development, we’ll also need a top notch offensive specialist like the Memphis coach. But none of theses guys consider themselves assistants. Therefore Paxson should be able to find a known offense specialist dying for an (or another)opportunity to coach as an assistant coach, and wouldn’t mind be joined with Thibodeau? Maybe Hubie Brown wouldn’t mind be a mentor as an assistant. He wouldn’t have to be bothered with the heavy pressure and stress of being a head coach?
Ron Adams should not be retained under any circumstances. It seems Paxson clings to the familiar…
Calipari is a college coach
I caught a glimpse interview with him on “Best Damn Sports Show”. He said he wants to go undefeated at Memphis. That’s his goal. I still think he’d accept an NBA job if the price is right, but right now he’s has lots of “help” guiding players to Memphis, but putting a whole bunch of Memphis kids in the NBA is pretty nice bonus.
Calipari is also trying to get Chinese prospects to come to Memphis. I think he’s looking at leaving his final touches on the game through the Memphis program.
by NBA Observer on May 9, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess my main point
is teaming Thibodeau as head coach with Hubie Brown as mentor, offensive coach and in a less stressful assistant role…
I read ya
I like the concept too. I do think Thibodeau is ready to be head coach so why not hire him to be that and let him select his assistants to help on offense and defense. He’ll know good folks to hire.
by NBA Observer on May 9, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
We'll Paxson
could make a suggestion to Thibodeau in regards to Hubie (but he should first speak with Hubie) Paxson do your do diligence first. Going from a top assistant to head coaching responsibility is a large step. I believe a GM should help to make a new head coach successful and also have the authority to add one additional member to the coaching staff and then let the new head hire his desired assistants.
Maybe that is what you are saying?
An i/o scheme
Of course the GM has input and output on the assistants. I presume most head coaches have a list of assistants they would prefer and the GM has their list. When they match up they go get the match. When they don’t match they hash it out.
by NBA Observer on May 9, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
if... then
Personally I like avery johnson more than D’antoni who projects a sleazy image to me (i think its the stash).... However I would prefer D’Antoni because of what i think it means for the Bulls future. If D’Antoni is coach then we keep Gordon for sure while Hinrich’s inability to run an offense (let alone a fast paced one) gets exposed. You just don’t get better on offense by trading your best scorer (Gordon). IMO scoring should be the #1 priority with Defense a strong second. The best D in the league wont win if u cant score points. A good offense pressures the other team to score whereas the recent bulls seemed only to try to keep opposing teams scoring down while praying it was enough…. A couple wasted sentences just to say that the best defense is a good offense. especially since the bulls already have a group of players who play solid d.
Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person
If we lose out on D'Antoni
I won’t be done on Pax but I will be winded after taking such a severe punch to the stomach. The Bulls sorely need offense and after enduring last season, the thought of having a respected offensive-minded coach who could improve the players’ broken spirits is too much to lose out on. Screw what the naysayers think, D’Antoni would be a Godsend for the Bulls.
Everyone should chill on the "I'm done if we don't get D'Antoni"
I will agree that he is one of the best coaches out there but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t come with flaws. Avery would be a fine backup choice if the Knicks played their usual money throwing games with D’Antoni. It’s hard to pay the kinda money NY seems to be willing to pay for a guy who hasn’t even made it to the Finals.
Everyone just be happy if we get either one.
How can we chill
with Matt pounding the hot button everyday? If I didn’t know better, I’d say he’s trying to build his BaB/SB hit count in some sort of perverted revenue blitz.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
I assumed this role
Because what else can I do when there are no games on television?
An active community is a good one.
by NBA Observer on May 9, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I have no problem with an active community
I just seem to think some people are going overboard thinking D’Antoni is the first and only choice.
It’s like . . . Oh here goes Paxson again by not signing a guy due to his top dollar asking price.
Gimmie a break. I want the guy too but like I wrote above, he hasn’t even made the Finals
as long as they don't come back
I’m fine with people leaving. It’s a free country. ;-)
2008 or bust.
"He hasn't even made the Finals."
You don’t think that has something to do with the caliber of competition in the West? So you would rather have a coach like Mike Brown (who has made the Finals)?
I'm not sure you ever know better
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 9, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Paxson
Could pay Thibodeau as head coach 6 million total / 3 years, and pay Hubie Brown as assistant coach 3 million / 2 years. Get rid of Ron Adams.
Chairman Jerry would be happy because he’s only out 9 million instead of 30 million commitment. And this tag team coaching arrangement seems to me would build confidence with the players that the bulls do want to win. Defense-Offensive tag team.
Respect for coaches would be instantly gain because I couldn’t ever imagine Noah telling Hubie or Thibodeau to shut up…
Hubie
Why in the world would Hubie take an assistant coaching position? He’s got a great gig with the TV thing where he doesn’t have to work too much. Being an assistant would be back to the daily grind, which is probably why he’s not doing it anymore. I know he’s a basketball junkie, but if a guy like him were to get invloved with a franchise again it would probably be in more of a consulting or management role where he could have a less strenuous schedule.
rb22
point well taken, if he’s not interested in the assistant role, then maybe some type of consulting role to the coaching team might work also. Which would be less stressful and taxing on his old body..
But, you made a good point that he is a “basketball junkie” and probably longs to coach again, but I don’t believe he’s hung up on head coach status position, but desires a position that pays well and that he can also be an influence and can make a difference.
But I’m sure the travel involved in the NBA is not desirable to him? Baseball worked something out for Roger Clemens… Opportunities exists, we just need to be creative.
Paxson just needs to get out of the small-town, familiar buddy, can’t rock the boat mode of thinking.
I wonder...
if Reinsdorf folds on the D’Antoni deal, does Izzo’s name resurface?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Yes.
But only if the tax returns and marginal trading stock of the DOW haphazards on the Bull/Donkey market.
I see...thinkin' right along with me.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
The only thing i am worried about
with this whole d’antoni hiring, or non-hiring is that some of the bulls players were stoked at the idea of him coming to chicago, and now that he may wind up in new york, it may end up being a real buzz-kill. i hope d’antoni wises up and takes the bulls offer, whatever it is, i am sure it wont be a bad number. The bulls arent cheap when it comes to coaches, but they are weary, and i applaud them for that. remember d’antoni hasnt even made it to the finals, so to cough up 6 mil a year for him is a bit of a stretch, and i would not hold it against pax or jerry for not wanting to shell out that dough for a guy who has no championship experience, except on italy. I guess that counts for something, but it doesnt earn you 6 mil a year. sorry mike.
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
haha
umm, which ever one means cautious…i have been out of school just long enough to start mixing that stuff up. dont even ask me a math or science question
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
The context says wary but the reality says weary.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Knicks press is getting player quotes on D'Antoni
They even got Marbury to say good things about him.
Where the heck is the Bulls press on talking to the roster about the coaches?
by NBA Observer on May 9, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Mark Stein about to "take the floor"
for “the latest”...on ESPN AM 1000
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
Stein on...
Highlights:
- introduced as being “delicious” by Van Pelt…
- Sees Chicago still as the favorite
- But hearing rumbling in coaches circle, D’Antoni giving more thought to Knicks
- No official offer, but a 5 year deal has been outlined, est at $30 mil
- questions how far Bulls will go, how much they will offer
- Bucher says, people talking about D’Antoni going to Knicks, but Stein still thingks he’s going to Bulls…
- Not just about money…Stein thinks he still will go to Bulls- better situation
- Pax wants D’Antoni despite philosophical diffs
- the chance to work with Walsh, very respected…would be an “honor”
that’s about it on the Bulls…
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
Sounds a lot like
what he told Chad Ford on NBA Dish yesterday.
by NBA Observer on May 9, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
that was good to hear out of stein
both he and Ford agreed D’Antoni would be nuts to go to the Knicks
by Orlando Woolridge on May 9, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Sam Smith from Tony Kornheiser Show yesterday
He stated right off he doubts the Bulls will sign D’Antoni. He cited philosophical differences as too strong and that anyone who believes otherwise is delusional.
The best part though, was Sam highlighting the philosophical similarities b/t Kerr and Paxson. He stressed that D and developing players were top priorities for both that D’Antoni would rather not deal with those areas. Maybe that’s why Phoenix gave away draft picks last year. If they’re going to focus on player development the way the Bulls organization has the last 2 years, why waste the time and money on scouting and signing a first rounder.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I definitely don't want D'Antoni
if he isn’t willing to expend energy developing young players.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
That's the irony of it though
The Bulls have preached player development but haven’t seen much of it the last couple years. While D’Antoni’s been in Phoenix, several players have improved under him.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
No , that's not why
They gave away draft picks because their owner is cheap and doesn’t want to pay the luxury tax (and then wonders why his team doesn’t have enough depth). They also gave away Kurt Thomas for the same reason.
I'm well aware of why they sold off their picks and Kurt Thomas to Seattle
I just thought it was very ironic that Smith thinks D’Antoni isn’t player development-minded enough for Paxson considering how little player development actually occurred the last couple seasons.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
my friend...
says Sam Smith is delusional, and that Mark Stein is a punk. HE says the Bulls will sign D’Antoni and Avery as his lead assistant.
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
Another thing to consider
that I just found out, D’Antoni is 57 so he is probably trying to get as much money as he can since who knows how many contracts he is going to sign. He’s not nearly as young as I thought. So all the misinformation being spread around is not surprising.
2008 or bust.
those damn assistants!
they just reported on CTL that a big obstacle in the whole thing (besides the money) is that Paxson REALLY wants to keep Adams, Myers, and Brown as assistants. D’Antoni REALLY wants to bring in his own staff (which he should). They are butting heads on this issue.
The money, now this…look for D’Antoni to sign with the Knicks by Monday.
saw it too
Could Ron Adams really be a million dollar per assistant coach? That can’t be right.
Do we know the years or dollars for the contracts for Adams, Myers, Wilhelm, or Brown?
Teams are not required
to release the details of their coaches’ contracts. Often, nether side will release the exact informatioon, so the numbers that circulate are estimates.
When I put together that comment yesterday in which I calculated 1 standard deviation from the norm, I had to go to several different sources, and a couple times ended up just taking the average of the estimates.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
I was starting to get past the money issue
but when I saw this, I about jumped out of my chair. THIS is the kind of stuff that turns me against Paxson. What the hell does he see in Adams and Myers that he wants to keep them around? I could even see if one or both of them had championship coaching experience. But they are average (below?) assistants who can easily be replaced.
If they really want D’Antoni and appreciate what he can do, let the man bring in his own staff. What is so wrong about that?
Did you hear the guys source any of this?
I think Caplan brought up the “I read/heard today the assistants may be the hold up” topic.
he qualified that
with a “this comes from a close/reliable source” statement…he said it real quick. Nobody on the panel sourced anyone…Morrissey was too busy laughing at his lame jokes to even answer the question properly
Morrissey makes me puke.
He is the most out of touch sports columnist/writer in Chicago.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Skiles only was able to bring Boylan
Even after he negotiated the contract extension he didn’t bring in any of his guys.
No, it's not just a Chicago thing.
Many GMs have a hand in picking assitants all over the league. In Skiles case in Milwaukee, one assistant was retained, the others were all associated with the former GM. Heck, when Portland fired Mo Cheeks, they kept one of his assitants from joining another team, and demanded he come back to work for theTrailBlazers when he wanted to go to another team.
Another example, Herb Williams has been an assistant coach in NY for Wilkins, Chaney, Brown and Thomas.
There’s another problem with that spec – Pax has said Myers and Adams would have jobs in the organization, not necessarily assistant coaching jobs. It’s all speculation.
by KT on May 9, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Skiles' assistants
ummm, who exactly was retained from the previous staff? Everything I read had Skiles hand-picking his entire staff.
—New Bucks coach Scott Skiles is on the brink of finalizing his coaching staff. Skiles intends to hire Jim Boylan, who was on his staff with the Bulls and replaced him as head coach on Dec. 24; Joe Wolf, who was the head coach of the Colorado 14ers last season and a native of Kohler, Wis.; former Indiana University head coach Kelvin Sampson and Lionel Hollins, who had been a head coach and assistant coach for the Grizzlies.—Besides firing four assistant coaches — Jim Todd, Tony Brown, Brian James and Jarinn Akana — new Bucks general manager John Hammond fired athletic trainer/travel coordinator Andre Daniel and John Anderson, an assistant athletic trainer and assistant strength and conditioning coach.
Bill Peterson
who works on player development. Also keeping the same scout and same video co-ordinator. Again, new GM, he fired just about everyone.
Some more examples – Tex Winter was a Jerry Krause hire. Krause was an old friend who found Tex theories interesting. And it was krause who wanted phil Jackson hired – and got Doug Collins to agree.
The man Skiles replaced in Milwaukee didn’t get to hire all of his own assistants either. Kevin McHale hired Randy Wittman to be Dwayne Casey’s assistant, Casey didn’t hire him.
Skiles could have asked for Adams and Myers to be replaced after his first season, but didn’t. He said he was happy with them, and just hired Boylan. And I am betting the Joe Wolf part of Skiles staff wasn’t just a Skiles idea – I’m betting Senator Kohl had a hand in that suggestion.
by KT on May 10, 2008 5:19 AM CDT up reply actions
also
I wouldn’t exactly name NY or Portland (pre 2006) as examples of anything being done right. Sure, it’s been done a few times, but in MOST cases, the in-coming coach gets to bring his own staff. The only reason Skiles didn’t bring his staff (other than his buddy Boylan) when Chicago hired him was because he had been out of coaching for awhile…he didn’t have a staff.
in most cases
Norm, why do I get the feeling that you just made that up. Could you please cite some examples that would prove that in MOST cases, the in-coming coach gets to bring his own staff. We’d all appreciate it…
2008 or bust.
look it up yourself
that’s free information that even the likes of you can find easily if you Google hard enough
ok how about I don't believe you
Most guys bring in one or two assistants, but not the whole staff.
2008 or bust.
It's absolutely ridiculous to impose a staff
on a new head coach.
None of those assistants are irreplaceable geniuses.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
A distorted take from "The Sun"
Ian Whittel covers the D’Antoni story for the Sun. Whittel is the English journalist that has covered Luol Deng and Ben Gordon as their NBA stories relate to the English National team’s quest to improve on the world stage.
Last summer, Deng and fellow Brit Ben Gordon turned down contract offers from the Bulls in the £25 million, five-year because they will be able to get more this summer.
And if Chicago fail to land D’Antoni in talks this week, their chances of keeping hold of Deng, in particular, may well plummet.
"Mike's my coach"
Steve Nash, from a cbssportsline.com story:
“This is the last thing I’m going to say about our coaching situation: Mike’s my coach,” Nash said. “So I expect to see Mike back here next year. And I know there’s a lot of stuff going on right now, but Mike’s my coach. I love playing for him. I expect to see him back in October.”
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/10819600
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
he's just being politically correct and loyal
nothing wrong with that…he can clearly see, just like everyone else, that D’Antoni isn’t coming back
I just put it up there as more evidence
of how much his players like playing for him. Even when it’s 99% sure he’s gone, they go into denial about him staying.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
more than anything
I think it was a subtle jab at Kerr & Sarver. That just shows the flaws made by these GMs, especially the micro-managing ones…players are always going to be more loyal to their coach than the GM…which is odd, because the coach doesn’t sign their checks
Matt, you know how much I hate OT comments...
but is there a way to see when new comments appear in the “Fandshots?”
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
you could just email me
they do appear, it says “5 comments, 2 new” or something.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Here is how we get in the driver's seat
Knicks make a decision that they want Mark Jackson. Bulls wait until they can interview Thibodeau. One job left and two candidates.
I'm pretty torn on this
I mean, I’m not hugely in favor of D’Antoni simply based on my analysis of him as a coach.
But if this is who the Bulls want, at least he’s an interesting pick. To be honest, I don’t see any obviously better candidates. For a completely demoralized and dysfunctional team, especially, I’m pretty warm to the idea of bringing in a guy that players are actually excited about. This was about the least excited looking bunch of guys I’ve ever seen last year.
As with most things run by the Bulls, it seems to come with more conditions and provisos and dragged out, useless negotiating ploys than is necessary. It’s painful. That’s where the “cheap” tag comes from with the Bulls.
The “Reinsdorf is cheap” and “BS, the Bulls gave Ben Wallace $60M!, don’t call them cheap” firing lines all sort of miss the point to me. When we commonly talk of people being cheap, it’s not because they’re never willing to spend anything, but because they’re inconsistent and often petty in how they do. Mr. Burns on the Simpsons is the stereotypical cheap tycoon but one can’t really call him literally cheap. Mr. Burns will spend on mansions and yachts, but will risk his life for a nickel, or kill for an extra billion. He’ll buy up major leaguers to play on the company baseball team, but he’ll fire them on a whim or try to coach them himself.
In short, it’s not cheapness per se that’s the problem, it’s his general weirdness about money. A willingness to lavishly overpay if the mood strikes but a willingness to be exceedingly tight over gnat’s ass details.
At this point though, I’ve got no clue when it comes to D’Antoni what they’re in the mood to be concerned about. They seem to be spending an awful lot of time talking to the guy though to not make him a sensible offer.
well said
I have nothing to add to that. I expect this whole saga will be over with by Monday, with D’Antoni going to the Knicks. Whether he agrees to sign with the Bulls or not, this entire game of “Let’s Chase the Coach” needs to end so we can worry about more important things in BaB, like bitching about the draft position and completely ripping to shreds whatever draft pick the Bulls select next month.
I agree about money wiedness but Paxson's process maximizes a good decision
This is the most important decision impacting whether we all enjoy next year or feel like our hearts have been ripped out. We should make a decision based on who we want not pressured into a decision by D’Antoni’s agent BS. If Boston continues to shut down LeBron they will do something no one else has been able to do. Detroit couldn’t do it last year. You have to give Thibodeau some credit. That doesn’t mean he will be a good head coach. But it is worth a look before we commit us to a coach with a contract for 4 or 5 years. Pax is doing the right thing by being careful!
I don't disagree
I’d feel better if I felt comfortable Paxson’s process fully accounted the fact the world doesn’t stop turning while he’s in “mid process”.
And by the way
The Bulls, the only other club in the mix, aren’t prepared to offer D’Antoni what he would be making on average in the final two years of his Phoenix deal ($4.25 million).
To which I can only say that’s some absolutely shit if true.
i believe
that’s the article i was referring to when i said i read somewhere that the bulls might not even be able to “afford” what d’antoni was making in phx. which, why bother interviewing him if you weren’t even going to equal his current salary.
please ask yourself one question
how would anybody at the NY Post know anything about what the bulls are able to offer. Why you guys continue eat this completely made up NY bs is completely beyond me. Could you guys please get a grip. This is classic tabloid journalism….
2008 or bust.
LOL
How about you “get a grip”. This is classic refusal to confront a fact you don’t want to believe…
Actually, I don’t know whether it’s a fact or not. It’s simply one more piece of information. But as to your question, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It’s the NBA and freaking New York we’re talking about, not Timbuktu. It’s not as if journalists these days are limited to riding a horse down the road the the Chicago Bulls office and asking Jerry Reinsdorf for an interview.
Ask yourself how any Chicago reporter would know what the Bulls are “able” to offer. They talk to their sources. Players, agents, the team GM, friends of the owner, etc. Obviously Reinsdorf’s not going to hold forth with KC Johnson any more than he’s going to hold forth with Peter Vecsey. In this case, the only people I find likely to be talking are going to be guys like D’Antoni’s agent, and he can talk to a guy in New York or Chicago just as easily.
For what it’s worth, KC Johnson does have a very strangely worded graf that intimates the same thing.
Which gets back to assertion you make in completely the opposite way. It’s all a bunch of tabloid speculation, although KC’s tabloid speculation, I guess, has the air of “official organizational mouthpiece” to it because he knows that if he presents a connotation that happens to irritate the Bulls, they simply stop returning his phone calls. Because Johnson has to deal with them every day, that’d be a big problem and so he makes his case as obtusely as possible.
The guy in New York, on the other hand, really doesn’t give a shit if the Bulls like him or not, so he simply reports what he’s heard.
The KC report this morning
was read by me as an organizational response to all the NY Tabloid flame throwers trying to coax D’Antoni to the Knicks.
Of course, you don’t talk to a reporter that’s just throwing out spec because you then feed the beast and it will return for more.
by NBA Observer on May 10, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
But...
... it was largely a response, not a denial.
Which gets to we uncover truth. Or at least attempt to. An individual report is hard to assign a huge amount of weight to. Add a vague response that doesn’t really deny things from an organizational mouthpiece, and you’ve got something a bit more substantial.
who has he heard it from?
you seem to imply that all of these guys have unimpeachable “silent” sources. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “source” is the guy sitting in the next cubicle. It’s pure speculation. The bulls could pay whatever they want, they are choosing not to offer D’Antoni more than that. And what fact am I avoiding? That the bulls aren’t head over heals for D’Antoni like some of your are?
2008 or bust.
I never implied that at all
But again, you seem to be going on all emotion instead of any sort of rationale about how things work. If the ‘source’ is the guy sitting in the next cubicle, KC Johnson’s source is what? Because he didn’t exactly deny it. Which you’d sort of expect him to if it was simply made up.
Of course, you’d sort of expect him to if it wasn’t made up too, given that he’s a got lots of incentives to be an organizational mouthpiece.
Why should KC make any response to what's written in another paper?
It’s his job to report what he gets from his sources. As the organizational mouthpiece, he does have credibility when he states Reinsdorf will meet with D’Antoni. If Reinsdorf wasn’t willing to pay D’Antoni close to what he wants, why would he bother meeting with him? Just to save face? Plus, the NY Post is not exactly known for stressing accuracy from its own reporters.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
you really are a turd.
and should just leave. This is obviously too much for you to take.
If you want to question the NY Post or Marc Berman, fine. If you want to take a stance that anything from that paper is inherently garbage, whatever. But to laugh off someone’s comment who’s just providing information because…
They all have sources, everyone kindof ‘gets’ that these are reports and not gospel, and are presenting it as such. I think you’re assuming the majority is not smart enough to figure that out. You’re completely worthless here constantly acting like the only one truly ‘in touch’ with reality. You’re not, and you wildly really overestimate your contribution here.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
*you can pick 'wildly' or 'really'
and a final thing, I don’t mind you having that opinion, I just don’t want to read it anymore. Just have a nice personal chuckle at all of our expense next time.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Am I the one
who is taking every NY paper report at face value and inventing a rationale for why they are correct, or am I the guy who is saying take it with a grain of salt and let the thing play out and we will see who is fos and who isn’t? All of the information reported isn’t equal, and never has been; it’s all being spun.
And that makes me the turd for bringing this up?
2008 or bust.
Your'e a turd because...
You attack conjecture with a self-righteous air of absolute truth.
But don’t mind me, i’m just a drunken idiot who shouldn’t be posting here in the first place.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on May 10, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
reinsdorf
is meeting with d’antoni over the weekend. maybe this shit will be resolved?
by Jaina on May 10, 2008 12:35 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Can we infer this about money alone then?
Because a meeting with Reinsdorf would be meeting number three with a Bulls official.
by NBA Observer on May 10, 2008 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, and the time before that he met w/ Skiles regarding an extension
So, if the Bulls get D’Antoni, we should expect all to just go to shit and give up.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
My guess
Pax is given pretty limited authority. Reinsdorf says “I don’t care what you do within these parameters. If you exceed them, I make the call”
I recall (but am not gonna be bothered to look up)- Reinsdorf heading out to LA to talk with Tyson Chandler
- Reinsdorf handling the Skiles re-up
- Reinsdorf okaying the Wallace deal
- Reinsdorf having some nebulous role in firing Skiles
- Reinsdorf nixing a trade for Gasol that’d put the Bulls over the tax
- Reinsdorf meeting D’Antoni to decide, I guess, whether he’s worth it.
no kidding
Cuban claims he gives his GM more shot-calling authority than anyone else, but he’s still determining who gets paid what. Pax’s luxury tax remarks prior to 2007-08 indicated the Bulls would only pay if he was confident enough in the roster to convince ownership to make the leap over the cap.
Even Jerry Krause, the trusted, champion-building buddy of Reinsdorf was watching the boss publicly negotiate contracts.
Latest Stein
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3389736
encouraging for all us who want D’Antonti
“That would be the clearest indication yet that D’Antoni, as described by NBA coaching sources all week, is Chicago’s top choice to fill a void created by the dismissals of Scott Skiles and interim successor Jim Boylan, in spite of any philosophical concerns that Chicago general manager John Paxson might have about hiring such an offensive-minded coach.
D’Antoni’s strong desire to land the Bulls’ job emerged even before the Suns gave him permission to pursue a new job. Sources maintain that he’s still determined to get to Chicago and that Paxson - while conservative and defensively focused like his Phoenix counterpart and close friend Steve Kerr - is excited about the offensive potential he sees in pairing D’Antoni, widely deemed the NBA’s foremost run-and-gun coach, with his young, skilled roster.”
by Orlando Woolridge on May 10, 2008 10:26 AM CDT reply actions
Sources tell Stephen Smith NYK offer D'Antoni 4yrs/24million
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3389736
On Saturday morning sources told ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith that Knicks team president Donnie Walsh has offered D’Antoni a four-year deal worth $24 million.Funny that sometimes Marc Stein is quoting himself but refers to it as “ESPN.com reported”.
If this is true it appears D'Antoni is our coach if Paxson/Reinsdorf want him enough to pay him $24/4
I like the process were the Knicks make an offer and we have an opportunity to meet it. I am glued to the internet.
don't see...
ESPN reporting it…so take with a grain of salt.
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
McCallum's been the first w/ any real news on D'Antoni through this whole thing
Unfortunately, I’d believe it
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I'm saying it's over because it's Jack McCallum reporting it
He’s the most clued in reporter to the D’Antoni camp.
by NBA Observer on May 10, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
It's over
D’Antoni to the Knicks. Nice work John and Jerry.
by NBA Observer on May 10, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
From the SI.com article
Walsh entered the picture last Monday when he interviewed D’Antoni at his home in Scottsdale, Ariz. That talk was sandwiched between D’Antoni’s two interviews with Chicago Bulls general manager John Paxson, who spoke with the 2004-05 Coach of the Year on Sunday night and again on Monday morning in Phoenix. On Friday afternoon, at his home in Scottsdale, D’Antoni also talked to Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, who has a home about 200 yards away from D’Antoni’s. But in the end, Chicago couldn’t match the New York offer. Walsh also interviewed Avery Johnson, early favorite Mark Jackson and Rick Carlisle, who has landed the Dallas Mavericks’ opening.
Couldn’t? No, that’d be wouldn’t.
I can't believe
Paxson and Reinsdorf screwed the pooch so heavily on this one. the fans wanted D’Antoni, he wanted to come here, and the players wanted him too. I don’t think this team is committed to winning, and I don’t think John Paxson is the type of executive who is creative enough to lead a team to a championship. Basketball is my favorite sport and it sucks that the team I care most about, doesn’t care all that much about winning.
Looks like we'll be able to chalk this one up more to Paxson wanting to take his time
an explore all coaching options rather than the Bulls simply being cheap.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
It'd be nice to know what the bulls offered
but I think you are right. That number seems also seems a little low to take a huge rebuilding job in NY where he is guaranteed to have a crappy year next year. How can you run and gun with Curry and Randolph? One of those guys will definitely be moved this summer.
2008 or bust.
explore all the coaching options?
I don’t get what there is to explore. Is really a mystery what type of system D’Antoni, Carlisle, Avery Johnson or Thibbideau would run? These guys have all been assistants or head coaches for years. Exploring the coaching options is just a euphemaism for looking for a candidate who will take the least amount of money with the biggest amount of payoff. Your 2008-2009 Bulls coach – Mike Fratello.
Don't jump ship yet
I would say that if the Bulls don’t get Avery, then it’s time to pout.
The Bulls are better suited for Johnson anyways. Chill out everyone.
Talk about a slap in the face.
This organization is nothing more than a circus at this point. You have to make yourself laugh, otherwise it’s way too maddening to even think about.
I don't care if the players hate who's coaching them
I care about what’s best for the team.
Michael Jordan was a player/coach for the Bulls forever and how many times did you hear about him getting in altercations with other players because of his demanding on the court style? What it all comes down to is winning. If the Bulls players can flourish under Johnson, they will love him.
It’s a love/hate relationship when it comes to winning. If something comes to you so easy, it’s easy to just get comfortable and be content with life being easy.
I’m a firm believer that struggling ultimately gets you to where you wanna be in life. Who cares if D’Antoni’s practices are easier or that his game is more fun to play? They (Suns) haven’t won shit playing that way.
The best example I can give is guys like Bill Parcells or Bob Knight. They succeed and are demanding coaches. And yet both still attract players to play for them. Why? Cause ultimately guys want to win and that’s what matters at the end of it all..
Michael Jordan was a player/coach?
I guess that guy Phil Jackson never existed. Bill Parcells and Bob Knight haven’t won anything in years. Mostly because they can’t get along with the younger players. Bill Parcells is right now running his best defensive player out of town.
On the court
Michael demanded a lot from his teammates. You know what I meant.
People can deal with shit as long as they win.
Parcells built that Cowboys team pretty much that’s amongst the best in the NFC.
No I didn't know what you meant
Michael had Scottie reassuring his teammates, and Phil Jackson drawing up plays. KG demands alot from his teammates, I wouldn’t call him a coach though. I think its hard to argue with D’Antoni’s results. And I think its hard to argue that players play better when they like and respect their coach. This isn’t about toughness, Pop is tough. But the players like him and respect him. Skiles was tough, but the players didn’t like him so they quit playing hard.
I don’t understand why you believe the Bulls are a better fit for johnson’s system. He didn’t really have a system, just play tough D and give the ball to Dirk. It worked less and less each year. And by the end, it was pretty clear the players had begun to tune him out. He didn’t even show up for a practice in the playoffs!
I think D’antoni would have been good with our guys. We wouldn’t have had to make many changes. Now, I think we are just left with a bunch of unknowns. That has been Milwaukee’s forte for the last couple years. Hasn’t really helped them much.
To me
The D’Antoni hire was more about developing our guys and giving them some offensive confidence than winning a title right now. They need to grow offensively before they ever do any serious damage in this league. They’re not winning a title with the roster they have…I don’t care who’s coaching.
D'Antoni was a big winner and the players loved to play under him.
Would you rather be led by some hard ass drill sargeant personality over him if you were a player? Even in the NBA you can attract more bees with honey than with vinegar. Or at least that’s the buzz I’ve heard.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
I forgot to add it really comes down to respect between players and coaches going both ways.
Something the current Bulls sorely lacked.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 12, 2008 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Think Avery Johnson would be a good fit for the Bulls. His personality is better suited for young players and some of the current roster needs to learn how to become professionals.
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