More D'Antoni
There's a pointless and fun tool that was posted amongst the SBNation brethren that allowed us to count comments by user on a post. Here's what's been produced in the weeks worth of D'Antoni talk:
Total Users: 74
Total Comments: 913
Total Threads: 3
Top 10 Commenters:
your friendly BullsBlogger 119
NBA Observer 105
alec 64
tyger1147 52
snley 52
Ozzie Montana 49
NormVanBeer 47
bullshooter 41
exult463 24
hscs 21
And after all that...still no real news. But more speculation!

Here's the latest from K.C. Johnson, with one interesting tidbit being that it looks like Pax is cooling on Avery Johnson. But on to the D'Antoni part:
While Paxson is said to like D'Antoni personally and value his offensive coaching skills, D'Antoni's reputation as a lesser defensive coach is giving Paxson pause.
D'Antoni also routinely limited practice time with a veteran—and superstar-laden—Suns team. That's not to say D'Antoni couldn't change if he took over the league's youngest team in the Bulls, which his camp has stressed is his desire.
But Paxson is giving indications he might want to wait to interview candidates such as Celtics assistant Tom Thibodeau. How that fits with the Suns' plans is uncertain. D'Antoni is under contract to the Suns for $8.5 million over the next two seasons, but they clearly are at an impasse philosophically with him.
On to the that money...
The Bulls ranked among the league's top spenders with Skiles' salary, so nobody can call them cheap. That said, candidates beyond D'Antoni likely could be hired for half his price.
I agree that none of this means the Bulls are cheap. KC says it's beyond money, which is plausible. Or just a smokescreen and I'm the typical naive United Center patron...but I'll play that part for now. D'Antoni isn't an infallible candidate, and there are certainly real reasons to be hesitant to lock him in at a huge figure. There's no salary cap or luxury tax for hiring coaches and the Bulls have the cash, but that doesn't mean they should overpay for a guy who they think they could then also fire a couple years before the contract's up.
But while we don't know what D'Antoni is asking for, it does bother me that the money owed Skiles (guess we did get an answer) is being referenced so often, implicitly indicating it as a stumbling block regardless of D'Antoni's pricetag.
That should be considered a sunk cost, and most of it can be allocated (unofficially) in last season's budget, when they were paying Boylan with spoonfuls of PCP-laced gruel (or the monetary equivalent).
The article says that the Bulls are negotiating on their own terms. Which is fine. But it should be in terms of them and D'Antoni. Not them, D'Antoni, and Skiles.
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219 comments
Comments
hmmm...
I hope that first bit doesn’t mean that people will start making inane pithy comments just to get their count up…
by micah on
May 8, 2008 12:51 AM CDT
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HAHA
Thats exactly what i was thinking…
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
May 8, 2008 2:23 AM CDT
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trust me
I look upon my ‘top ranking’ only with shame.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 8:19 AM CDT
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Why would you be ashamed
when you are in the same category as NBAobserver and Alec !
Speaking of people contributing too much or too few, what happened to one of the best contributors on blogabull, sbulls. Haven’t seen him/her? write anything in a long time. Did not even finish his evaluations of players if I’m not mistaken.
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on
May 8, 2008 8:27 AM CDT
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he changed his username
to scotter, and posts once in a while. I don’t know if he’s planning on doing evaluations for this past season. I may start begging if necessary.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 8:28 AM CDT
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Hey matt...
very stupid question but, can you do that about other things as well…ie….other players…i guess it only works with the new blog system right, the key word feature?
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
May 8, 2008 2:24 AM CDT
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It's just to count up comments
put in a thread URL and it spits out the ‘stats’.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 9:33 AM CDT
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re micha's hope that people don't start making "inane pithy" comments just to get their count up.
Many will consider this post to be inane but micah’s comment indicates he is opposed to those that have substance and point: that are tersely cogent. (def of pithy). Inane is the opposite: lacking significance, unsubstantial, empty, He must be a politician, by taking both sides on the same issue.
Ok, I have nothing pithy to add except it gets my count up one more, but trying not to be inane or redundant, I second Matt’s hope that the Bulls don’t use their contract negotiation blunder with Skiles to keep the Bulls from getting the best coach available.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on
May 8, 2008 2:48 AM CDT
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You'd be pithier
if you used the reply button…
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on
May 8, 2008 10:18 AM CDT
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I can't help but wonder
about Peter Vecsey’s assertion that Skiles really quit and wasn’t fired from the Bulls. It’s stuff like that that makes it harder to stomach reports of the money owed to Skiles.
That and the fact that the man has another job.
by ToroToroToro on
May 8, 2008 4:24 AM CDT
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I agree
on the part about Skiles’ money should actually count towards this past season’s “budget” if there ever was such a thing. And if it really is of concern to the Bulls for next season and D’Antoni is the guy they really want then work his contract like they’ve done with players. backload it to offset the cost. A 4 year/$18mil deal would pay him as much as he’s making in PHX and you could have it pay out in a 2/6/5/5 manner and make next year’s total “coaching” output a combined $6mil.
by CubFan81 on
May 8, 2008 7:09 AM CDT
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The Bulls have front-loaded contracts, not back-loaded them.
The Cubs, in saving TribCo and Zell money, have been the back-loaders.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 8:25 AM CDT
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yeah...
I knew that, I just didn’t convey it properly. What I meant it was that there’s no rule that says the contract has to be paid out in equal yearly amounts. They could get creative if the Skiles’ payout is that much of an obstacle to getting the guy they seem to want above all others.
by CubFan81 on
May 8, 2008 12:49 PM CDT
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If D'Antoni plays hardball
Let him go to the Knicks. They’re reportedly showing lots of interest and $. D’Antoni must know that the Bulls have more promising personnel, contract situations, and a GM and owner that, while maybe accused of being cheap or having no balls by some, tries hard to make good decisions and does open up the checkbook once in a while. Sure the team was dysfunctional last year, but the Knicks are an absolute mess. If they’ll give him 5mil/year and that makes his decision for him, more power to him.
by T Maple on
May 8, 2008 7:18 AM CDT
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Marc Stein's
Latest report:
NBA coaching sources told ESPN.com on Wednesday that the Knicks continue to regard D’Antoni as their No. 1 target to replace Isiah Thomas and are preparing a “staggering” financial offer they hope will prove too steep for Chicago to compete with, thus convincing D’Antoni to spurn the Bulls.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 8:27 AM CDT
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I wonder
if they would also give D’Antoni a GM title.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 8:44 AM CDT
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FYI
more Knicks talk.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 9:55 AM CDT
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A Tip to Make Deep Threads Load a Whole Lot Faster.
1. Click on your UserID at the top of the screen to access settings.
2. Click on “Edit Settings” towards the top right.
3. Go to the Default Comment Format that probably says “expanded”
4. Change it to “closed”
5. Click “Update” at the bottom of the menu to save your changes.
This way, when you open up a thread that has new comments, only the Subject and the “by-line” show up. To get the rest of the comment, you simply click on the bolded subject. (Note: you may click on the subject and sometimes nothing happens-this is because the user only typed something in the subject and not in the text box.)
This has significantly reduced loading time. For me, the 400+ comments in the last thread took about 1min30 sec the old way, but only around 15 secs. this way. Hope it helps.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 8:33 AM CDT
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I'll also try to not let the threads get that big
thanks for the tip, I did not adjust that setting myself. I also recommend turning off the avatars/pictures in comments.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 8:37 AM CDT
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just turning off the avatars
made things load quickly for me. jpegs are page killers.
by KT on
May 8, 2008 8:43 AM CDT
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I didn't find the avatars helpful at all.
I still show mine and I still load superfast. Try switching up, just for fun.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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Could also just leave the giant thread open
and then open another instance of BaB to play around on the smaller threads?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 8:42 AM CDT
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Just for fun, I let FasterFox time the load for me.
For the 447 comment, D’Antoni Signals thread, time to load:
Expanded comments, Avatar shown: 153.3 seconds
Expanded comments, No avatars shown: 109.7 seconds
Closed comments, Avatar shown: 15.8 seconds
Closed comments, No avatars shown: 15.2 seconds
Just FYI.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 8:57 AM CDT
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lol
nice…though top-10 on this subject is not something i’m proud of. I won’t have too much more to say until this thing is over with
by NormVanBeer on
May 8, 2008 8:42 AM CDT
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Ha! I plan on living and dying with each new rumor.
Though I gotta say I’m glad the Observer topped me. Matt, you get a free pass.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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that's a sound strategy
;-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 11:10 AM CDT
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I would rather have
AVery Johnson. Forget D’antoni. Paxson seems to be going to slow. He’s not going to even try and interview Avery. D’antoni is ok but Avery Johnson is a better coach.
Bulls fan till death
by saalikjazz on
May 8, 2008 9:16 AM CDT
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Stephen A Smith
will be next up on First Take to talk about the latest in the coach searches.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 10:11 AM CDT
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I'm sure he'll be providing plenty of new information.
And not his own stupid opinions.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 10:23 AM CDT
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I've been waiting for someone who's the opposite of plugged into the Knicks and Bulls
to appear on a fifth rate sports talk show and discuss what he read on ESPN.com 5 minutes before the cameras rolled. Thanks!!!
by hscs on
May 8, 2008 10:39 AM CDT
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Just trying to feed my addiction.
If it’s not yours, more power to you.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 10:42 AM CDT
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it's a waste of time
Phoenix doesn’t want him, the Bulls can give D’Antoni a raise, the Knicks are wacky enough to pay Phil Jackson money, and everything else is crap from agents or totally fabricated. The only ‘update’ left is D’Antoni unofficially agreeing to terms with a team.
by hscs on
May 8, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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I know you'r right.
This whole thing is starting make me feel burned out and exhausted.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 11:02 AM CDT
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Maybe you need to spend some more time drinking with your daughter
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 8, 2008 11:02 AM CDT
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Y'know, some comments are funny.
Some are just nasty and mean-spirited.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 11:13 AM CDT
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I apologize, there was no intention of mean spiritedness
It was more the intended irony from combining others accusing you of drunk posting yesterday added with your occasional references to your daughter. Again, there was no intent of harm on my part. It was simply a bad attempt at a joke.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 8, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
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not mutually exclusive
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 11:25 AM CDT
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Let your conscience be your guide.
I usually know when I’ve gone over the line, and I’ve gone over the line more than once here…and when I have, I’ve apologized to the people I offended.
I appreciate snley’s apology; I understand he didn’t mean his comments to be actually hurtful. Every blog has its own rules of etiquette. With a few notable exceptions (the big isms) your rules are very lax…more so, no doubt, than most of us assume in our personal lives. I recognize this is my issue and not yours. End.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 11:57 AM CDT
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you went over the line
when providing unprovoked information about your personal life.
Not quite ‘fair game’, but it wouldn’t even be possible if you didn’t leave the door open.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 12:00 PM CDT
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this is worse
than when wallace was traded. there was so much anticipation, but it was only for a few hours. this has gone on for days now, with no signs of resolution.
by Jaina on
May 8, 2008 11:05 AM CDT
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Screamin' A.
if anyone has not done so yet, watch these YouTubes.
some crazy Knicks ? fans heckle him remorselessly at the draft at MSG every year and video tape it. They actually catch him eating Cheese Doodles during commercial breaks and then licking his fingers. Screamin’ A.
by Orlando Woolridge on
May 8, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
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another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAB5lOIl-2U&feature=related
this is the cheese doodles one
by Orlando Woolridge on
May 8, 2008 11:32 AM CDT
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The cheese doodle video
cracks me up.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 1:02 PM CDT
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I'm really disappointed
in hscs’ performance, he used to be a prolific poster, not to mention an acerbic wit. And where is chgobr? Not on the list? That’s unacceptable, he needs to step up, too. ;-)
If there is one thing this offseason demands, it’s more batshit craziness! Let’s freak out, people!!!
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 11:16 AM CDT
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the Bulls should have all the leverage here
1. better team
2. brighter future
3. D’Antoni’s first choice
there is no reason we should lose this “war” with the putrid Knicks.
the only thing that scares me is if Walsh starts telling him, “You know you wanna be here buddy. This is the place where LBJ will be playing” after next season (even though we all know he will be in Brooklyn with his mentor HOVA). If he chooses the Knicks because of the money, then, well, maybe we don’t want him in the first place.
by Orlando Woolridge on
May 8, 2008 11:19 AM CDT
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i pretty much agree with this
i don’t expect the bulls to offer as much as the knicks may potentially offer. but it should be close enough that it should be no contest. if he just takes the money then well, nothing we can do about that. then he’s stuck with the knicks.
by Jaina on
May 8, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
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Here’s where I disagree.
The Bulls should never lose out to another team based on money…especially in this case, where the money only counts against team revenue and not the salary cap.
Paying D’Antoni, if he indeed is your guy, an extra million a year will not hamper the Bulls team operations in the least. The Bulls had net revenue of over $160 million last year. Their operating income was the highest in the league. You mean to tell me they’re going to get outbid by the Knicks by a miniscule million dollars, and call it quits on D’Antoni?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 11:36 AM CDT
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who means to tell you that?
what if it’s ten million?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 11:39 AM CDT
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then...
that’d be bat crap insane…
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
May 8, 2008 11:41 AM CDT
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standard operating procedure
for the Knicks.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 11:42 AM CDT
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no...
that’d be the ten mil PLUS an ass grab and cat call…
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
May 8, 2008 11:43 AM CDT
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Don't forget about the backseat of an Escalade
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 8, 2008 11:44 AM CDT
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would that be
part of the Benefits package?
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
May 8, 2008 11:46 AM CDT
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Anyone who says
“there’s nothing the Bulls can do about the money.” Because there is something the Bulls can do about the money: pay it.
If it’s 10 million?—100% outside the norm? Maybe you begin to question it at that point.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 11:44 AM CDT
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they're not obligated to be stupid.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 11:47 AM CDT
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If somehow the Knicks put that price on the board
And Mike D was interested, I would let him walk, as Paxson no doubt would. He could maybe hire Avery for less (?), or just go cheap and hire Thibodeau and get a guy who meshes with his philosophy.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 8, 2008 11:49 AM CDT
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"Avery for less"
As stated in KC’s article, Avery’s getting $12m from the Mavs, but he has an offset clause. So I don’t think he’s coming cheaply at all, and I wouldn’t blame him for sitting out a year. Coaches seem to get magically smarter when that happens.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 11:59 AM CDT
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there's a fine line...
Paxson & Co. have to walk the line between being “stupid” (aka overpaying) and being cheap (aka losing him for a couple million). At what point does it become stupid to keep chasing this guy or to out-bid the knicks?
I’m not sure who, but one of these teams (Knicks or Bulls) will end up with a whole lotta egg on their face next season. Someone is gonna look like a genius for getting D’Antoni and someone is going to look like a fool for letting him walk (well, besides the Suns).
by NormVanBeer on
May 8, 2008 11:59 AM CDT
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Skiles is getting 4.5 million per year from Milwaukee
How much more is D’Antoni worth? Not much, if anything at all.
by hscs on
May 8, 2008 12:17 PM CDT
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What do you want to compare?
D’Antoni: 3 division championships, .608 winning percentage, .510 play-off winning percentage.
Skiles: 0 division championships (despite 5 seasons coaching in the east), .528 winning percentage, .429 play-off winning percentage.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 1:13 PM CDT
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whatever you'd want to compare
I wouldn’t compare that.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 1:17 PM CDT
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clearly the Suns were a better team
It’s tough to say they had a better coach. Skiles’ success isn’t directly tied to 3 very good players. He’s a little more proven, and a much safer investment than spending 4.5 million on a maybe post-15 minutes D’Antoni. I’d say they’re even.
by hscs on
May 8, 2008 1:39 PM CDT
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3 very good players in their prime I might add
by hscs on
May 8, 2008 1:44 PM CDT
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In their prime?
Amare is hardly in his prime and missed an entire season to boot. It’s arguable whether Nash was “in his prime.” Best production years, of course, but that’s an anomaly (in general) from 30-33. Unless you’re talking about Raja Bell.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 1:50 PM CDT
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relative primes
Nash only had 3 good seasons under his belt, Amare went from merely very good to great, and Marion followed a more traditional rise in production. My point was they were already good, experienced players when D’Antoni took over. Skiles didn’t have that benefit when he started coaching in Chicago. There’s just more reasons to doubt D’Antoni’s coaching ability.
by hscs on
May 8, 2008 2:01 PM CDT
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and no, I really don't remember when a prime is
I don’t have access to Hollinger’s archives, but your MLB-esque estimation is probably too old for the average NBA player.
by hscs on
May 8, 2008 2:04 PM CDT
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Then that puts Nash further out of the picture.
In which D’Antoni should be credited with “rejuvenating” his career or whatever.
Even then, 21-25, has never been thought of as a player’s prime age.
You have guys ranging in age from 21-30/25-33, and you claim D’Antoni had them all “in their prime” to raise the question of his coaching ability. As if to say, those three guys would have been that good, or having their career years, regardless of D’Antoni’s coaching. His three best players were aged nearly a decade apart. It’s hardly a good argument.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 2:17 PM CDT
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Jim Hendry put the peak performance age at 29
for baseball players.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 2:17 PM CDT
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Jim Hendry's a fat moron.
who’s fat. And it’s a game with sticks and pants.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:22 PM CDT
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Jim Hendry's an idiot.
And it depends on what you’re talking about? Baseball, with its varying aspects has different peaks. Speed (or players who mostly rely on it) comes around age 24. Power and defense in the late 20’s. OBP in the early 30’s.
I wasn’t even speaking about MLB, but I’m glad Ryan was to pigeon hole my vague comment into that.
Most people’s athletic ability peaks in the early to mid 20’s and stays somewhat stable through the mid-20’s. However, it’s the “learning” that typically delays productivity.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 2:23 PM CDT
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Which is why...
...baseball does peak later than other sports. It’s based more on skill compared to raw athletic ability than other sports.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 2:24 PM CDT
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I feel bad for you guys
I’ve been in my prime for at least the last 7 years, and I am pretty sure I have 9 more to go. :-p
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 2:54 PM CDT
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oh, and I am with hscs
D’Antoni made the most of having great players so he is a good coach. I wouldn’t give him any more credit than that yet.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 2:56 PM CDT
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that's how I feel as well
and how I also evaluate Skiles, which is why it’s not crazy to think they’re on the same pay-scale.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:58 PM CDT
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Their pay scale
is whatever someone’s willing to pay them. I think this real estate vacuum has driven that point home.
If it’s the Bucks and 4.5 and the Knicks at 6, then so be it.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 3:03 PM CDT
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Which was hscs's original point...
...and undeniable. D’Antoni had better players so using the team’s relative success against Skiles (as alec was trying to do) is pretty stupid.
The “in their prime” part was a poor supporting point, I believe.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 3:04 PM CDT
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Seriously, we just need to blame alec.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 3:05 PM CDT
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...for a change.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 3:05 PM CDT
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eh
you never know…who’s to say that Skiles would do the same things with the same players?
by NormVanBeer on
May 8, 2008 3:17 PM CDT
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Sorry to burst your bubble, bullshooter,
but by the time you were legally allowed to drink you’d already passed that peak.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 2:58 PM CDT
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I'm a late bloomer...
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 6:13 PM CDT
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Lucky guy...
at least from this side of 18.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 10:20 PM CDT
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be careful
the drinking jokes may come back now that we know your age.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 10:21 PM CDT
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gah!
threads don’t keep going to the right?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 10:21 PM CDT
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no, I mentioned that
a few fanposts ago. You can’t even tell who is replying to whom anymore…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 11:18 PM CDT
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huh?
I corrected myself and said, “relative.” Like, regardless of age, Marion, Nash, and Amare were all having career years during the D’Antoni era.
I wasn’t pigeonholing your comment either. My bad memory says Hollinger’s (based on science) NBA player prime is 27-30. 30-33 just sounds too old. I’m probably wrong, but I wasn’t trying to define what the hell prime is anyway.
by hscs on
May 8, 2008 4:39 PM CDT
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I do understand your underlying point...
...but think it is only partly true, and doesn’t really have anything to do with “prime”.
It’s unlikely Stoudamire or Marion would have had more production (relatively speaking) no matter what team they were on.
However, I feel fairly certain Nash wouldn’t have been as good with any other team as he was with Phoenix.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 2:19 PM CDT
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Let's not forget that Nash would have not been better
Until they stopped calling moving screens, and the league has focused all officiating to foster more perimeter play to speed up the game. Without these rule changes, Nash’s career doesn’t have great longevity.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 8, 2008 2:40 PM CDT
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Um, Skiles had some fine talent in Phoenix
Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, and Penny Hardaway before shattering his career into 1000 pieces.
In Chicago, he had a roster with 7 lottery picks, Curry, Chandler, Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, and eventually Thomas and Noah. Don’t make it seem that Skiles didn’t have players to work with. He got the most out of them because they were raw, young players, but the Bulls have some gifted players.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 8, 2008 2:38 PM CDT
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he sure did
That’s why I said Skiles’ NBA success wasn’t linked to only a handful of very good players.
by hscs on
May 8, 2008 4:42 PM CDT
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maybe?
I’d question six plus mil and up…
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
May 8, 2008 11:49 AM CDT
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I think that's really the question here.
OK, 6 is too much. But what if the Bulls were willing to go 5.5. Does an extra .5 kill the deal? It’s likely not even 1 standard deviation outside the norm for a coach with a winning career record.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 12:00 PM CDT
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if it's an extra .5 million
just fire Myers and Adams.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 12:56 PM CDT
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i was really
basing my opinion on the assumption the bulls are going to balk, whether they “should” or not. i know they are one of (if not the most) profitable team in the league and we absolutely should pay what we feel is deserved (or if we really want the guy, be able to outbid the competition). but i was just assuming the bulls’ offer may be less than the knicks’, only because they don’t give a shit about payroll, but i was just saying that if it is within a reasonable range, even for less money the bulls should still win out.
by Jaina on
May 8, 2008 12:17 PM CDT
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The fact that D'Antoni hasn't signed with the Knicks yet
despite their almost certain superior offer is a clear tell that he ‘wants’ to sign with the Bulls. What is the dollar amount that is holding this back? 1 million? 5 million? Skiles and his multi-million dollar scowl continues to glare at us from the Brat Stop!
by RogersPark Kris on
May 8, 2008 12:35 PM CDT
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Hot Damn
49 comments of pure speculation!
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 8, 2008 11:25 AM CDT
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that's the off-season for you
speculation galore from us, from the beat writers, from ESPN.
by KT on
May 8, 2008 12:35 PM CDT
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my comments weren't speculation
they were facts!!!! ;-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 12:45 PM CDT
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It's fun
The offseason in the NBA is oftentimes more fun than the season itself, especially when your favorite team imploded.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 8, 2008 1:16 PM CDT
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McGraw
has a different take on Avery Johnson:
Things were quiet Wednesday in the Bulls’ coaching search as it appears general manager John Paxson plans to meet with former Dallas coach Avery Johnson before making any move. Sources with the Bulls, however, say no meeting has been confirmed.
(via RealGM)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 12:52 PM CDT
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the counter move
to D’Antoni feigning interest in the Knicks job…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 2:58 PM CDT
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sure.
It’s interesting that McGraw was able to scoop that “it appears general manager John Paxson plans to meet with former Dallas coach Avery Johnson before making any move” and KC either didn’t know or wouldn’t make that leap.
(interesting being a very relative term)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 3:00 PM CDT
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from today's chad ford chat:
Vince(Ca): You’re an idiot
SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:48 PM ET ) Thanks
:D
by Jaina on
May 8, 2008 12:54 PM CDT
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But Darko can still be a good player!
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 8, 2008 1:17 PM CDT
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Pay for Performance-Incentive Bonuses
In the real world, people get paid for performance. How about a salary structure which looks like: 120K per win, plus some incentive bonus for reaching the ECF and/or the NBA Finals. 500K bonus if he produces an All-star player. Anything under 41 wins and he gives back 50K for each loss after loss # 41. He has a clear path to 7-9 mil per season.
by Cannoli on
May 8, 2008 1:00 PM CDT
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Why not keep it simple?
4.5 mil per with a quarter mil bonuses for first and second round appearances and half mil bonuses for ECF and finals appearances.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 1:07 PM CDT
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Stein on Ford's podcast
Says that the ‘philosophical’ concerns have more-or-less eased, despite conventional wisdom of Paxson (like Kerr) wanting defense. They’re excited about teaming him with the roster of young skilled guys. Some of the players are already excited. The money seems to be the big sticking point.
MP3 link. (there’s a bit more, but that part was the actual ‘reporting’.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 1:16 PM CDT
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I’d be interested in MarketMaker’s take on this.
If he’s an options trader, which I believe he is, my guess is that very much of what he does is based on models derived from various measures of standard deviation.
Let’s say that at 1SD you put the trade on, but at 2.5SD you blow it out, because you know there’s something unforeseen in the works, something crazy going on.
The common understanding of price movement is that there are bands of rationality around a price…and generally beyond 2.5 standard deviations the movement is no longer rational.
How shall we define D’Antoni? If we make the criteria too restrictive we run the risk of taking the sample size down to a membership of one, or even zero. How about this for starters? Active, and Winning % over .600. This yields:
Adelman (6.9 mil), D’Antoni (4.5 mil), Phil Jackson (10.33 mil), Avery Johnson (4 mil), Popovich (8.5 mil), Sloan (5.5 mil), SVG (4 mil).
The arithmetic mean is $6.25 million. One standard deviation is roughly $2.25 million.
This means that any salary between $4 million and $8.5 million is within one standard deviation of the norm for active coaches with career winning percentage over .600.
By this measure, the Knicks supposed offer of $6million doesn’t look at all unreasonable.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 1:50 PM CDT
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Have you seen any dollar figures
for Larry Brown’s contract with the Bobcats?
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 2:07 PM CDT
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I know he was over $10 mil on the Knicks.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 2:22 PM CDT
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18.5 million
It’s already been paid to Larry Brown. Larry was also drawing salary from the Sixers for the last couple years as a consultant.
I’m just curious what MJ agreed to pay Brown for 4 guaranteed years.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 2:24 PM CDT
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Signed the contract while hungover?
Larry may be willing to take a pay cut just to get any job and repair his image.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:26 PM CDT
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"Active, and Winning % over .600"
didn’t we already make fun of you for this? Evaluating coaching is extremely suggestive. Heck, a lot of it comes down to something seemingly trivial like how he pals along with Pax.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:24 PM CDT
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Kinda like determining HoF worthiness, I guess...
which you guys are all up in arms about for not having any objective criteria. I try to introduce some objective criteria (not to mention legitimate statistical methodology) and you’re all crazy because it doesn’t fit into your “feel” for things. Jeesh.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 2:30 PM CDT
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winning percentage for coaches
isn’t legitimate at all.
You can’t see the difference between using statistics for players and coaches?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:33 PM CDT
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So...
Phil Jackson’s winning percentage is not a legitimate measure of Phil Jackson the coach?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 2:36 PM CDT
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not really
I use the “he made Kwame Brown useful” argument with him.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:39 PM CDT
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I'm willing to concede
that it’s possible that the actual market rates for coaches are in part determined by winning percentage. In which case you have a point. I don’t think the Bulls should necessarily act as such.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:41 PM CDT
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clearly not...
I suggest using some combination of percentage of times the coaches neck tie matched his teams primary color scheme and the number or quality time outs called but subtracting for the number of technical fouls in the 2nd and 4th quarters and also for the number of games lost in OT at home.
by CubFan81 on
May 8, 2008 3:32 PM CDT
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I won't speak for anyone else
I don’t think the HOF lacks objective criteria. I think it’s deservedly subjective and they just are bad at it. When they get around to actually having more NBA player representation, then we can get into whether they’re good at selecting amongst them.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:56 PM CDT
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speaks for itself
According to the Post report, LeGarie told the paper that D’Antoni favors Walsh over Bulls management and that his client also prefers the Knicks’ superior financial resources.“He likes that Donnie is a veteran GM with a track record,” LeGarie told the paper. “(Former Sun general manager) Bryan Colangelo was the gold mint, and (D’Antoni) would like to go back to that kind of situation.
by NormVanBeer on
May 8, 2008 1:52 PM CDT
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I hope Paxson reads this
LeGarie is practically gift wrapping the criticism.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 2:06 PM CDT
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I cannot wait for the hiring press conference (whoever it is)
When Paxson immediately gets to the ‘misinformation’, likely with this report in mind :)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:37 PM CDT
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"New York also always has the resources to do what it takes to win."
Or suck…
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
May 8, 2008 2:17 PM CDT
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Wouldnt it be more accurate if you wrote
“and still sucks…”
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
May 8, 2008 4:20 PM CDT
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I suppose...
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
May 8, 2008 4:21 PM CDT
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"D’Antoni favors Walsh over Bulls management "
I don’t know if this is factual, but it’s logical. Heck! what knowledgable coach wouldn’t. Maybe a desparate coach or a first time head coach would welcome this less than favorable employment situation. Skiles even reject this opportunity?
This same situation will surface with quality fee agents as long as this level of indecision continues to exists with the current Bulls management.
Think about it, have you every worked for a person in a superior position who didn’t have a clue for the direction of the organization? It rarely works in your favor….
by exult463 on
May 8, 2008 2:18 PM CDT
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i worry
about the perception that players have about bulls management. between heisley (even though he’s a moron) and other things that pop up here and there, makes them look awful. and i agree, they need to just commit. some report said they might not even be able to “afford” what phoenix is paying him. why interview him then?
on the other hand, skiles… rejected interviewing for the knicks position. :)
by Jaina on
May 8, 2008 2:25 PM CDT
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If the Hoopsworld article is accurate, then the Bulls management deserves to be tarred and feathered.
It stated they ‘re only offering $4.25 annually, while the Knicks are ready to open up the vault for D’Antoni. He would love to coach our athletic young guys but when presented with an offer he can’t refuse without being stupid, why would he want to come here? It seems like in his praise of Walsh, he is implying the Bulls management’s stubboness is turning him away from signing with Chicago.
Damn you Riensdorf. I hope you have enjoyed watching your south side hitless wonders nosediving while Ordonez, Young, Lee and Rowand perform like all stars in greener pastures. If you allow D’Antoni to get away you will have earned whatever scorn that will deservedly come your way. Throw the man a bone. Your revenue will grow with his hiring, just from a PR standpoint.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on
May 8, 2008 2:25 PM CDT
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According to everyone else though
He favors the Bulls?
Geez, I have no idea what to think anymore until they hire someone
by Option27 on
May 8, 2008 2:25 PM CDT
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who wouldn't favor the bulls?
he may like walsh, but comparing the teams, who would want the knicks?
by Jaina on
May 8, 2008 2:32 PM CDT
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Perhaps it goes beyond just the management
The management is just people, but what about the health of the entire club? The trainers, the doctors, the multimedia types, the coaches, the Berto staff, we’re talking everyone.
LeGarie works with Wasserman Media Group where Arn Tellem is a principal. Think LeGarie has spoken to Tellem about Ben Wallace? What about LeGarie talking to recent WMG hire BJ Armstrong?
In short, LeGarie may just be pushing stories into the press to bump up the bid price so it’s closer to the ask. I really hope it’s just this and not actual testimony affirming the increasing criticism of the entire Bulls organization.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 2:38 PM CDT
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don't worry
they’ll get to your video coordinator resume, I’m going to try and put in a few calls :-p
I thought Tellem was a Reinsdorf pal, not foe. Tough to keep this all straight!!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:42 PM CDT
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also
NBA Observer what you identified may have lots of truth too it, but still Bulls management is a easy target to attack.
by exult463 on
May 8, 2008 2:44 PM CDT
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I don't get why
the types of things that NBAO references have historically been considered good traits with the Bulls. Maybe it all changed when Pax moved in and he had one losing season….
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:45 PM CDT
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Exactly
When all went well with the Bulls and Paxson, they were the darlings of the NBA and it seemed everyone followed their model and wanted to play or coach for them.
Now after one losing season, their management is an easy target to attack?
I think most in the NBA still agree the Bulls are a great organization to play or coach for now with Paxson.
by Option27 on
May 8, 2008 2:50 PM CDT
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oh
Forgot to mention the loads of talent already on this team. That’s also a big plus for any coach/player.
Future talent is on its’ way too (9th pick presumed)
by Option27 on
May 8, 2008 2:54 PM CDT
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Maybe, but the Knicks could get Rose or Beasley
and automatically have a better future than the Bulls.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:57 PM CDT
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49 wins then 49 losses
sure many go with the direction of the wind, but still these same issues which surfaced this year during the 49 losses also existed dominantly when we won 49 games.
Were you not alarmed that the bulls couldn’t beat NJ and win a milestone 50 wins in 06-07 and also struggled to beat teams that year whom they suppose to put away easily?
what about the signing of large contracts to players not considered the top two or starters for that matter? Remember Duhon signed for 3 million for 3 years? Then Noc and Adrian Griffin contracts? Big Mistake Wallace? Franchise labeling 50 million Kirk? Draft picks?
Things some considered insignificant can be quite telling? Let’s not be behave like none of these things happen!
I remember Matt having a three month long uneasiness about Noc signing that contract. I really didn’t understand the level of his frustration on that issue, but some time afterwards I did!
by exult463 on
May 8, 2008 3:35 PM CDT
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sure it's alarming
but those are personnel mistakes, not some all-organization failure which NBAO is suggesting possible.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 3:40 PM CDT
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"an all-organization failure"
is beyond my comprehension at this point?
I rather attempt to highlight managable issues like “improve internal player development programs and staff”, ‘strength training”, “team comradery building”
by exult463 on
May 8, 2008 3:59 PM CDT
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ahem
I know it’s batshit crazy time, but $50 million does not a franchise player make… more like $70 mil. AG’s contract was also not a mistake, nor Duhon’s; together they were less than $5 mil per year for guys who were supposed and did play roles on playoff teams. And Wallace looked good the first year, and was turned into usable pieces when he looked done. I know you love to bash Pax, but you need to get a grip.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 6:18 PM CDT
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Chris Duhon
was actually a good signing, and his contract was a good deal. He’s one of the better back up point guards in the league.
Kirk’s contract wasn’t bad. It was fair at the time, but he had a bad year last year that made it look bad. I thin he’ll get back on track this year.
Our drafts have been good too. Deng, Hinrich, Gordon were all solid picks. I think Tyrus and Noah will be good picks. That would be no busts in 5 times in the lottery. Duhon was a great second rounder (anytime you get a 2nd rounder who can make your team and contribute, that’s a good 2nd round pick).
The Wallace signing was bad though. And we definitely overpaid for Nocioni. He’s the type of guy who deserves the full mid-level or so.
by rb22 on
May 8, 2008 8:18 PM CDT
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Duhon
is not bad, but only looks better because he often out plays Kirk, our starting PG. Put Duhon on New Orleans, or Utah, or Toronto and he would be fortunate if he got minutes.
I don’t even want to discuss draft picks or refute your praise, it’s too painful for me…
by exult463 on
May 9, 2008 12:12 AM CDT
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bullshooter
i understand your point and I don’t have much of an argument.
Sure a million here and there among friends, shouldn’t hurt the organization? Right?
Duhon, signed a second contract in his 2nd year since he wasn’t drafted in the 1st round. Therefore i believe he would have gladly signed 4.5 million for 3 years instead of the high 9 million for 3 years? Remember the Bulls nickle and dimed Pargo at 900K and 1 million, and now his value is higher in the NBA than Duhon. It will be interesting to see what type of contract Duhon receives from another team? I believe he really can be a solid player, and maybe one day will become similiar to Derick Fisher if he continues to work hard?
Time will tell with Kirk. Your’re correct 50 million isn’t a franchise player’s salary, but it aint peanuts. At one point the organization attempted to make “Captain” the franchise player. Yet 50 million is definitely too much to pay for a player who is playing like a 7th and 8th man off the bench. Which way will Kirk go?
Bulls mgmt brought out E-Rob, continued to waste money on no return tim thomas, loss a higher pick on no return for investment Vicktor, millions still in debt to scott skiles just to name few points why Jerry might be closing the wallet?
Frankly, Wallace looked good only on the Pistons, and my statement is not a tribute to his game. Wallace look good only to opposing teams because they never had to defense him his entire NBA career.
And I never mention in this post the person whom you say I love to bash!
by exult463 on
May 8, 2008 8:18 PM CDT
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du's contract
was something the bulls matched. that means someone ELSE (raptors) wanted to pay that to get him.
by Jaina on
May 8, 2008 8:46 PM CDT
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like a few notable others
you shouldn’t trouble exult with the actually facts. He’d rather mix and match his own “gut feelings” to tell us the “truth”.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 9:58 PM CDT
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exult is a pax-basher to the core
but debating whether the Duhon+Griffin+Wallace+Hinrich contracts were mistakes or not has little to do with facts in the first place.
(Whether the Bulls signed Duh or matched another team’s contract offer is semantics.)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 10:19 PM CDT
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but not knowing the facts behind the signing
is sloppy and intellectually lazy.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 11:19 PM CDT
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i would prefer
a fair weather bulls fan “label”, instead!
Ok Duh contract might have been a match?, but the other items still stand, and mgmt continues to waste money with little return on investment.
Imagine if mgmt would have let Toronto have Duh? Wonder how many more games we would have loss? zero (0)! Maybe Calderon would have been a Bull too if Duh landed with the Raptors 3 years ago !
by exult463 on
May 9, 2008 12:04 AM CDT
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I'm sure you would
but that would just as much of a mischaracterization as your analysis of Pax’s moves. Hindsight is always 20-20, and your revisionism is lame. The moves were all made with a purpose and a goal. Because you don’t take the time to understand the why’s, you consistently misrepresent what happened and it’s annoying.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 9, 2008 3:47 PM CDT
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purpose, sure
but if the purpose is flawed (i.e. overvaluing ‘scrap’) and the execution is worse, revisionism is fair. Pax is paid to not make mistakes.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 9, 2008 4:01 PM CDT
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The evidence thus far
Anecdotal, but what else is new. That’s why this is just speculation. I don’t know if it is possible to confirm. You’d need to presume there is at least one Scottie Pippen either in the agency world or actually with the Bulls willing to tell it like it is.
KC’s reference yesterday speaking to Mike North about Gordon’s and Deng’s injuries really not being all that serious. He says they could have played, but just didn’t.
The Bulls Beat podcast that on two occasions reported that people that talk to Doug told him the club doesn’t have very good video services. Also mentioned were the reports about active players paying out of pocket to get their own basketball consultant to work on their game.
Tryus going to IMG this summer for a few weeks of work.
Heisley going on the record to describe the Bulls like they’re a bunch of cheapskates.
This is the #3 market for just about everything in the United States. The club booked a 30+ million dollar PROFIT last year according to Forbes analysis. Reinsdorf doesn’t want to pay the luxury tax. On and on it goes. The obvious truth is the Bulls make lots of money and everyone knows it.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 4:04 PM CDT
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Heisley's an idiot
I’m not sure what KC’s medical degree means for the Bulls though. I’d say it’s a bad mark on the organization that they leak to KC how the players are faking injuries, but that could’ve been Skiles.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 4:21 PM CDT
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Still though . .
There is a reason all these coaches want to come to Chicago. Or why Kobe “wanted” to come to Chicago.
Something tells me that if the organization is as bad as you think it is, no one would want to come under any circumstance.
Bulls paid Skiles a fair amount as coach. And I’m sure if signing Kobe Bryant or something meant going over the luxury tax, Jerry would have done it in a second. They just didn’t feel that Pau was worth going over the luxury tax.
Deng and Gordon would both love to play for someone like D’Antoni so I would also assume if he were signed, they would be a lot happier and be willing to play through more injuries.
Let’s face it, it just wasn’t fun to play for the Bulls last year unless your name was Joakim Noah.
One tough season doesn’t make the organization a failure.
by Option27 on
May 8, 2008 4:30 PM CDT
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I dont think it was for Joakim noah
For someone bent on winning, he was exposed to alot of losing…losing games, losing pride, losing personality, losing smiles, losing players, losing coaches, losing respect….lots of losing going on for the bulls this past season….
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
May 8, 2008 4:42 PM CDT
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He hates to lose...no doubt about that
But I never seen a Bull smile as much as I saw Joakim smile this season
by Option27 on
May 8, 2008 4:54 PM CDT
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Joe smith?
When is that man not smiling? Joe smith actually enjoys playing the game, Joakim i think later on in the season really stopped smiling. Im not sure cuz i dont watch college b-ball, but i bet he smiled a helluva lot more in college when he was on a championship team
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
May 8, 2008 4:57 PM CDT
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Othella Harrington
used to smile it seemed like almost every play. My dad and I used to call him “cheesy” because he was always smiling so much
by NormVanBeer on
May 8, 2008 4:59 PM CDT
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I don't think the organization is lost
But the trend of my opinion leads that way a little more each day.
How do you rip the Bulls when they do what they did for Viktor Khryapa and Scott Skiles?
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 5:51 PM CDT
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Or Jay Williams for that matter.
Or Scottie Pippen—after he admitted that he sucked and was too old to play, didn’t they basically keep paying him?
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
May 8, 2008 6:40 PM CDT
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org. 2 soft?
once you get on the payroll, you’re guaranteed to continue receiving checks, for at the very least one additional year…
Is this why Bulls have no money to pay a coach?
by exult463 on
May 8, 2008 8:49 PM CDT
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was just about to complain about this
when can we stop being the ‘good’ ‘character’ guys, who pay everybody’s way, Jay Willaims, violated his contract, ESPN said we waived Skiles’ off-set clause, the Tim Thomas thing, the E-Rob thing…. man, this is a business, and if we’re so worried about the luxury tax, why we been givin out all these dam handouts the last 7 years? I woulda still given Scottie the money as a player coach, and maybe Eddy if it had turned out he couldn’t play, but that’s it.
and why we keep steppin all over cats’ value before we trade ‘em, or not even try to get equal value when we might be able to? Tyson? JR? then we didn’t even flip P.J.’s contract? come on man.
by Sko on
May 8, 2008 11:40 PM CDT
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Don't buy it
Based on the quotes provided, the top statement is simply mind reading on the author’s behalf. Nowhere in the quote did LaGarie say that D’Antoni prefers the Knicks management over the Bulls. It’s all spin.
The source is a NY paper. What else, but favorable remarks, is he going to tell a reporter from a NY paper after the interview?
"It is not the same to talk of bulls as to be in the bullring." ~Spanish Proverb"
by VivaLosToros on
May 8, 2008 7:36 PM CDT
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More from Stephen A....
Listen...to him.
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
May 8, 2008 2:31 PM CDT
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heh
at least he came up with a new theory: He’s using BOTH the Knicks and Bulls as leverage to regain power with the Suns. :-)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:36 PM CDT
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interesting
i didn’t see it from that perspective? But I believe D’Antoni has reached a breach in working with Kerr and I can definitely understand if he has. Kerr’s mouth has been to big. He (Kerr) should handle his criticisms in private and not using the public media for a coach that has accomplish much.
by exult463 on
May 8, 2008 2:40 PM CDT
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I agree with that
but I do think that Kerr’s so entrenched with the owner that it makes the chances of success for this supposed strategy of D’Antoni look so dim that the idea loses merit.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 2:44 PM CDT
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lol
I don’t know if Sarver is going to clash with Kerr and kowtow it over to D’Antoni’s side. Maybe if I scream the theory it will make more sense.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 2:45 PM CDT
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Damn it. I saw 107 new comments and I thought there
might be some breaking news.
I thought that the Suns were demanding a decision from D’Antoni by Friday?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on
May 8, 2008 3:06 PM CDT
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Is it Friday already?
My, how time flies when you’re having…well, whatever.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 3:14 PM CDT
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The Friday deadline
Is this supported with any quotes from named or unnamed sources with the Suns?
Stein’s mentioned the “by Friday” chatter, but he hasn’t yet provided a source for that.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 3:34 PM CDT
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according to D'Antoni's agent:
“There’s no deadline, no ultimatum,” LeGarie said.
by NormVanBeer on
May 8, 2008 3:54 PM CDT
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If we hire D'Antoni, does that make it more or less likely that
Hughes will be forced to the bench?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on
May 8, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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as sbulls once said
guys who make that much money always seem to find a way on the court…
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 3:32 PM CDT
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"hughes the FG% bum"
probably could be servicable with a coach like a D’Antoni who would strongly encouraged him (hughes) not to take the outside shot!
by exult463 on
May 8, 2008 4:14 PM CDT
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I saw 63 new comments and thought there might be some news.
No such luck! I wonder if this will go on through the weekend without an offer.
by chgobr on
May 8, 2008 3:58 PM CDT
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the weekend?
No, no…this is going “full steam ahead to the White House!”
Sorry….
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
May 8, 2008 4:03 PM CDT
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the absolute
worst ‘why D’Antoni should go to the Knicks’ suggestions yet:
Press. Yes, D’Antoni is sensitive to criticism and the New York tabloids can be brutal. But Chicago isn’t much better. If I’m going to have either Peter Vescey or Jay Marriotti lobbing grenades at me anyway, I’m getting my $6 million a year.
http://rimshots.freedomblogging.com/
I’ve never read this guy before…but his “reasons” are pretty terrible
by NormVanBeer on
May 8, 2008 5:09 PM CDT
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This line if funny
In New York, D’Antoni could run for mayor with a 40-win season. As long as he talks to the press, keeps his hands off the female employees and doesn’t add "defendant" to his resume, he’s golden.
As we like to say around here. Thank You Isiah.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 5:55 PM CDT
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What do you think of Rotoworld.com reporting the Knicks have made an offer?
Is Rotoworld.com just miss-information, old wrong news or true
Reports late on Wednesday indicate Mike D’Antoni has received a job offer from a team other than the Bulls. His agent is meeting with Knicks GM Donnie Walsh on Thursday, increasing speculation that the Knicks are making a push to sign him.
by chgobr on
May 8, 2008 8:27 PM CDT
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giving him a number
and d. ant takes that number to DA BULLS, and asks us to match.
on the other hand, it could be part of the disinformation machine surrounding this circus.
by Orlando Woolridge on
May 8, 2008 8:35 PM CDT
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the plot thickens...
There were reports Thursday that Walsh was prepared to make a “staggering” contract offer, as ESPN.com described it, to D’Antoni and another that said D’Antoni’s agent, Warren LeGarie, was expecting to meet with Walsh in New York. Both proved to be fiction, which has been a byproduct of the rampant speculation that has dominated the search since Avery Johnson was fired by Dallas and D’Antoni was given permission by Phoenix to talk to other teams.Walsh did not meet with LeGarie, who flew from Greece to San Francisco through New York, and there were no contract offers made or negotiated.
The Chicago Bulls, who were believed to be the best scenario for D’Antoni, have apparently hit the brakes on discussions to hire him and executive John Paxson is believed to be turning his focus on Boston associate coach Tom Thibodeau, who may not be available for an interview until after the Celtics are eliminated from the playoffs.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix0509,0,1747933.story
So is everyone getting cold feet now?
by NormVanBeer on
May 8, 2008 9:34 PM CDT
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What is with the hard-on (excuse my French) for some obscure
Boston assistant coach?
Other than that he can be had at a discount.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on
May 8, 2008 9:54 PM CDT
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I don't know
maybe he could be a better coaching prospect for the bulls? The above seems to indicate that D’Antoni is in full spin mode. Do the bulls really need a coach whose second biggest talent is creating drama?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 8, 2008 10:06 PM CDT
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as long as his first talent is coaching I don't care
but agreed that just because Thibodeau is ‘just’ an assistant shouldn’t disqualify him. Or necessarily mean cheapness. He’s the top candidate from those ranks, it’s not like bringing back Boylan.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 10:10 PM CDT
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not just a normal assistant
An assistant that requested a with the Celtics after he thought he had a deal with the Washington Wizards.
by NBA Observer on
May 8, 2008 10:07 PM CDT
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Well, that would be encouraging...
...if it weren’t coming from someone who probably regards him as a friend.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 10:21 PM CDT
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I don't think he employed him merely out of friendship
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 8, 2008 10:22 PM CDT
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Thanks for the insight.
Let me just say I take the comments with a “grain of salt” as you bloggers like to say.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 10:24 PM CDT
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reminds me of his public shilling
for Mark Jackson.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 8, 2008 10:22 PM CDT
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Oops, i messed up the html
That first sentence should read “An assistant that requested a one year deal with the Celitcs”.
by NBA Observer on
May 9, 2008 8:31 AM CDT
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Newsday?
tabloid stuff outta NY….Pax may be giving Thibs a look while D’Antoni is being “courted” by the Knicks.
who knows, i’m sick of this circus already.
will we know anything Friday?
by Orlando Woolridge on
May 8, 2008 11:15 PM CDT
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Um... the Lakers-Hornets series is going to be amazing.
Chris Paul is pretty spectacular.
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 10:22 PM CDT
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Yeah, because it's soooo important to stay on topic in an off-season thread...
...that’s merely about speculation (meta-speculation) about a coaching hire. OOPS!
by tyger1147 on
May 8, 2008 10:24 PM CDT
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Charles weighs in on D'Antoni:
“Mike D’Antoni wants to leave, and he don’t have the (guts) to resign,” TNT analyst Charles Barkley said on Dan Patrick’s national radio show. “He wants them to fire him. He wants to get paid and get another job. He wants to get his cake and eat it, too. He’s trying to hold them hostage. He knows he’s going to get another job. He wants the Suns to fire him so he can get that $9 million they owe him. If he had any (guts) whatsoever, he’d say, ‘You know what? I don’t want to be here.’”
from Jay Mariotti’s Column
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariotti/940308,mariotti050908.article
by Orlando Woolridge on
May 9, 2008 12:18 AM CDT
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I'm almost ashamed to admit that
I agree 99.9% with Jay Mariotti’s column. I have nothing pithy to add other than to recommend others read it.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on
May 9, 2008 9:16 PM CDT
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Someone tell me why
D’Antoni is so eager to leave Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire for Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas?
by Sports2 on
May 9, 2008 12:19 AM CDT
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Apparently his clash with management
and their “philosophical differences” really are that big of a deal to them.
by Illini15 on
May 9, 2008 12:26 AM CDT
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Something to do...
With Kerr having tweaking with his coaching style. Since Kerr is in bed with owner D’Antoni wants to take his 7 second offense to another town.
I think it has more to do with Steve Nash is getting old, they just picked up an over the Hill Shaq, Hills ankle could give out any moment and the owner has given away the last 10 years worth of draft picks to save money. They can’t win with what they have and they are unlikely going to get any better in a very competitive west.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on
May 9, 2008 12:26 AM CDT
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I think it's the feeling that Kerr is meddling too much.
Shawn Marion must’ve left his ‘nobody appreciates me’ diary somewhere in the locker room.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 9, 2008 12:41 AM CDT
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I believe thats a factor
But you have to also think this is a good time for D’Antoni to move on. This is a weak market for coaching, he is viewed as been successful in Phoenix, Kerr is taking the blame in the teams demise for getting Shaq and three big market teams (Dallas, NY, and Chicago) need coaches.
He is going to get a larger contract for more money than he might if he stuck with the Suns and if forced to bend his coaching style he might not have been as successful.
I wouldn’t seeing him come to coach as long he has:
1) A plan on how to run the team particular on offense and prepares the team to play each game.
2) Can command the respect of his players.
3) Feels secure enough to develop and play the young talent on our roster instead of burying them on the bench to milk a few wins out of more experienced vets.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on
May 9, 2008 1:27 AM CDT
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Bulls to offer something by Sunday?
The New York Knicks on Thursday outlined the lucrative parameters of a five-year deal they’re prepared to give new No. 1 coaching target Mike D’Antoni, according to NBA coaching sources.A rival proposal from the Chicago Bulls - the team many still favor to land D’Antoni - is expected by Sunday at the latest, sources said.
by NormVanBeer on
May 9, 2008 8:01 AM CDT
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