its not a debate. Kobe has to do a lot more to prove worthy of this debate. He SOMETIMES looks like he is Jordan, but he can’t bring that game night after night like Mike did.

I think Kobe’s the closest I’ve seen to MJ in every night intensity and stamina. I just don’t think he has had the emotional IQ to make the proper forecasts of how his actions will effect his team, the opponent, etc. Sort of like the classic Russell-Chamberlain argument; one has the statistical points, except that whole titles thingie. Kobe’s made a quantum leap this year, but I think he still comes up a little short in analyzing how best to rip out the other guy’s heart and letting him know he has NO chance. Pretty much one dimensional approach to dominating the game.

It’s been insufferable in LA since BEFORE he won title one with Shaq. I guess I can counter by starting a DRose v Kobe debate :-)

There is no debate, Michael was the best ever. For someone to say Kobe is as dominant as Michael is a joke.

can you imagine Michael Jordan ever peevishly not taking a shot through an entire half of a do or die PLAYOFF GAME!!? You know, just to be petulant.

Well Kobe did just that against the Suns, was it last season, or the season before? That’s the major difference between Jordan and Kobe. Sure Bryant has flashes of jordanesque play and attitude, but Jordan never turned that off, couldn’t turn it off. Kobe can and does and that is why he will never be Michael Jordan, no matter how hard he tries.

I think when you try to downgrade Kobe on the physical game, you end up sounding like a horizontal kitten who’s had too much kool-aid. Same with comparing competitiveness. Best I’ve been able to come up with is the difference in the selfishness character of the superstar. I think Alec’s going to like this.
MJ was very selfish, to be sure. And he learned that letting his teammates in on the fun was the way for him to join Bird’s and Magic’s pantheon. But Kobe is narcissistic. And I think that speaks to his inability to influence the other nine guys on the court. I think he can’t influence what’s going on in their heads because he doesn’t know, and that’s due to a lifetime of indifference to others’ thoughts, feelings, goals, etc.
But something clicked this year. I think he’s only 29 or 30, even though this is his 13th year. If he’s finally figured out that his teammates aren’t entirely enamored with him taking over games when they were playing just fine, he may be ok. And maybe I’ll give him best impersonator props. Better than? Not possible, short of an 80 win season.

Kobe’s ring finger just yet now. Let’s have him win a few titles as the undisputed alpha dog, have him pull for a DPOY award, get a few more MVPs, have a few more huge 4th quarters, hit a few more game winning shots, and then we can have this great debate.

you can’t improve on perfection

Jordan=perfect basketball player

Kobe=emulation of perfect basketball player

Lets wait till Kobe retires first.

It is so hard to compare players of different eras. First off, the NBA is so much more competitive now than it was in the ‘90s. The rise of international talent has changed the recent NBA, and there is then increased parity today. There were fewer Dirk Nowitzkis, Tim Duncans, and Manu Ginoblis in Jordan’s day. So its not always fruitful to have this debate. But…

I think that Kobe does have all the physical tools that Jordan had, maybe more. He’s got an inch or two on Jordan, all the offensive skills, and is close to as good a defender. But there are other qualities that are hard to quantify.

Jordan captured the attention of the world like few athletes ever have. Kobe hasn’t been able to do this to Jordan’s extent. This can be attributed to many different things.
- The increased parity today in the NBA.
- Jordan had maybe the best sidekicks ever on his team for much of their reign.
- Jordan was surrounded by some negativity (gambling, reportedly selfish, Wizard years) but never this can’t be compared to the negativity around Kobe (rape allegations, reportedly pariah).
- Jordan was the single best player in the NBA for years, as he won MVP 5 times. Along with 6 Finals MVPs.
- And he was the best player on the a team that won 6 championships, with the core largely staying intact all those years. Kobe may very well end up winning as many championships as MJ. But they won’t be as consistently, and he wasn’t even necessarily the best player at the time the championships were won (Shaq).

I hate having this debate, as its near impossible to compare players of different eras. But there’s little doubt as to who had a bigger impact on our world. Who became a brand and a symbol of greatness. MJ.

Seems like a lot of people missed my initial point. I don’t think there is a debate. But, the national media started it up immediately upon LA closing out Sanantone. So, I was just asking how you liked my Elvis impersonator analogy, as I won’t be a quiet bystander to all of the Kobe-love for the next 2 weeks. Russell, Wilt, O, KAJ, Bird, Magic and MJ. The Pantheon.

It didn’t really help much. Followed a few links there, and as usual, the metrics ended up with crazy anomalies that the author tried to defend unsuccessfully, at least to my mind. I remember seeing one such overall “efficiency” list that had Bill Russell listed way down around 30th with some numbnut like a Mark Eaton (made that up) listed twenty positions higher. I mean, come on, wouldn’t you go back to the drawing board before publishing your work?

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to point me in the right direction. I do go to APBR forum occasionally, and maybe one of these days I’ll take a minute to try to properly phrase the question for them.