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Comfortably dumbfounded

It's still very weird to imagine. Doug Collins? Doug? Collins? This was the "new vibe" Paxson was searching for all these weeks?

It can be looked at least as a return to known competence. Any coach who isn't that last coach they had (and shall not be named) will get this team back to respectability. They're a roster too talented to be this bad, and with any kind of motivation can become a top-5 defense again. A hire of someone with any experience and talent will do that, and we can say that much for Collins.

A first-time coach could potentially do that as well, but I'm guessing that bringing in the #1 overall pick may have raised the stakes for Pax, and a first-time (or lesser-known multi-time) coach was deemed too risky.

But still: Doug Collins?

He's certainly an intelligent coach, recently evidenced by his work on TV (note: at least they didn't hire Mark Jackson). Gene Wojciechowski relays some choice quotes to support it:

The late David Halberstam once wrote of Collins: "He was passionate, extremely driven, and very bright. No one understood the flow of a game better than Collins. Sometimes it seemed to his players that he was almost too smart."

Former Collins and Bulls assistant Johnny Bach told Halberstam, "If you could call 30 timeouts a game, he'd win every game."

Unfortunately, it seems like Collins coaches as if he does have 30 timeouts a game, having his team walk the ball up so slowly he can have more than enough time to get his message in. Hollinger (and many astute commenters here noted this first, btw) breaks it down:

Collins might be the most extreme slow-pace coach in the past quarter century. I'm amazed nobody has brought this up yet -- the guy makes Jeff Van Gundy look like Paul Westhead.

His Bulls were the league's slowest-paced team in 1986-87 and 1987-88, even with Michael Jordan at the peak of his athleticism. Scottie Pippen became a starter in 1988-89, yet Collins had the Bulls playing at the third-slowest pace in the NBA.

His Pistons, with a young Grant Hill, were the league's second-slowest team in both seasons Collins coached in Detroit. And his Wizards were 26th and 27th out of 29 teams in his two years at the helm in Washington.

A big red flag for those of us who think this roster is better suited to run. A roster that will likely include Derrick Rose very soon.

One slow team I can give Collins a slight pass for is the Jordan Wiz, as he had to cater to Jordan's shot legs. Though you can consider catering to Jordan being a longstanding issue as well, especially when he insisted on relying on older talent to surround Jordan, a problem Hollinger notes has followed him through his several stops in the league (though not as much as in Washington. And, like most things, that situation can be blamed on Michael Jordan).

So this may be a return to competence, and Collins is certainly a good coach, but it's also a potential return to the same problems that doomed Skiles. Not that they're both disciplinarians (I'm fine with that), but while Collins the TV analyst seems to have mellowed with age, all I've heard of him is when he gets back in to coaching mode, he falls back into a different persona: overly intense, emotional, and stressed-out. Eventually to a fault.

Those traits of intensity, and slowing the pace, indicates a need to control. Running plays, limiting mistakes. But this roster is young, and any coach should expect mistakes. That'll be the huge test of 'the new' Doug Collins, if he even bothers to pretend that person exists. Will mistakes be expected? Or benched?

I'm afraid of another Skiles trait: an overeliance on trusted veterans at the expense of young players for the uninspiring goal of predictable mediocrity.

Sort of a parallel to what Pax wound up with in this search.

While reports were that Collins was initially contacted after Boylan was hired, that doesn't distinguish himself from what seemed like 85% of the available assistant coaches, those who wanted to coach, and those who maybe thought about coaching once they retired from playing. I may even have accidentally redirected an interview request from Pax to my spam folder. From the outset, Paxson said he had no idea what he was looking for, and after looking...and looking...it more or less turned out he indeed did, and still, had no idea. So him and Reinsdorf went with what was comfortable.

Yet I hope that comfort is only limited to Collins as a coach. In many ways I'm 'okay' with the hire for that reason. The intelligence factor has been mentioned, and he has the reputation as a teacher. But there is that other side, and I hope that wasn't glossed over by the Bulls braintrust because they felt Collins' "Chicago ties" would "resonate" with the fanbase. Sadly, with Jeff Hornacek and Tyrone Corbin, as well as nearly every former Bull mentioned as possible additions to the staff (and Pax's insistence on keeping holdovers like Myers and Adams), this begins to look like only 'Chicago guys' may apply.

There's been rumors about the new lead assistant being the eventual successor to Collins, and this hire is preemptively determined to last only a couple seasons before the groomed can take the helm. It'll be interesting to see who may get anointed, but it means Paxson didn't find his basketball soulmate in his weeks-long endless interview queue. Or at least didn't find one he felt worth risking his job to hire. 

I was hoping we'd see some inspiration in the move, someone who could not only get things "back on track" but accelerate it. This just seems like a return to the old 'vibe': a coach with a shelf-life, with perhaps short-term incremental improvement, but no real vision for a championship future. Collectively they'll play hard, say 'accountability' a lot, hope it's enough to succeed, but rag on the players if it doesn't. A culture where coaching determines the talent, not vice versa.

(Seems like it, anyway.)

Getting the top pick will always mask a lot of mistakes elsewhere. So if this coaching hire is one, maybe it won't matter. Either way  the result means the great coaching vision quest by Pax was a failure. This was no grand move, just one that was potentially good enough. Couldn't the same have been accomplished by hiring Rick Carlisle six weeks ago?

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we will not be

last years team.

one more year of learned experience,
our two top players looking for top contracts.
tyrus offseason number three.
Noah’s offseason number two.
and of course, a top tier player joining the fray.

say what you will, but deng gordon and hinrich have 3 years of playoff experience to hang onto.
these are points that can’t simply be ignored.

by gman2849 on May 30, 2008 12:52 AM CDT   0 recs

LOVE the Collins move

Collins has grown so much over the past 20 years, and deserves this shot.

by thedm on May 31, 2008 12:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I really hope

Paxson made this move in an attempt to save his job. As in, Reinsdorf said “win 50 games next year or you’re out”, and Paxson found a coach that’s a good bet to make that happen.

That’s really the only way the Collins hiring makes sense. Put him on the sidelines, the Bulls grab the #4 seed and win 50, the addition of Derrick Rose leads to another season of filled seats, and suddenly Paxson’s bought himself another two years to bring home a title. With that said, I expect Thabo and Tyrus to sit and wait for another year.

by YaoPau on May 30, 2008 1:30 AM CDT   0 recs

Reinsdorf has come out and said that Pax has a job for life if he wants it...

...and I believe him.

(I believe it was during the “Lunch with a Legend” segment on WMVP-1000).

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on May 30, 2008 1:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep

I think Paxson resigns before Reinsdorf would can him. A whole slew of negativity would have to ensue for Paxson to get fired. Reinsdorf just isn’t the firing kind of guy.

by NBA Observer on May 30, 2008 10:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Because that way

it’s just Paxson buying time, instead of Paxson being dead-set on Collins as the coach to lead us to the title.

by YaoPau on May 30, 2008 10:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No way....

....that conversation happened. The Bulls are not in a typical market. They don’t have to win to sell every seat. Reinsdorf wants to win, but more likely he saw big dollar signs in the sky when the Bulls landed the top pick in the draft. With Derrick Rose being the budding star from Chicago via Memphis, I suspect the dictate was more likely to pick Rose than to win 50 games. Reinsdorf wants to fill the seats.

by BullsFanInSeattle on May 30, 2008 10:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Collins obviously sold Paxson

he has the vision to make the most out of this team. Unless Paxson was just shining us about wanting someone with a different perspective, he would have promoted a “yes-man” assistant to carry out Paxson’s own agendas. I would expect Collins to adapt what he has done well with past teams to fit the Bulls unflinching philosophies(defense, accountability, character, etc…). Paxson should have been aware of his coaching weaknesses and been impressed at how Collins will resolve those issues with the Bulls players.
As for playing veterans ahead of youth, there isn’t as big of a gap and no player has really stood out as a leader and earned more playing time by his accomplishments.

by gillrowdy on May 30, 2008 1:43 AM CDT   0 recs

Noah

played more than he should have last year based on his performance, and you can’t play BG anymore than he has minutes wise. And Tyrus does as much to take himself out as he does to earn more minutes.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on May 30, 2008 9:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess

Thabo, Duhon, Ben Wallace, P.J. Brown, Joe Smith, and Nocioni all really earned starting spots.

by hscs on May 30, 2008 9:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and remember

they was showcasing Larry Hughes. And the Bulls pretended to pursue D’Antoni to sell season tickets. And Paxson’s just waiting until Thibodeau’s available…and whatever other crap bs says.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2008 9:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Disagree

Noah had the best plus-minus numbers on the team last year, and deserved to play even a little bit more.

Tyrus was second on the team in plus-minus, and nobody other than Deng or Gordon had a significantly higher PER. Tyrus does make a lot of youtful mistakes, and he doesn’t hustle anywhere near the way he should, but yanking him at every mistake is as much unforgivable petulant behavior as just about anything Tyrus has done himself the last couple of years.

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on May 30, 2008 9:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

bullshooter knows that

It’s tough to argue those points. Throw in how poorly the Bulls played last season, the Michael Sweetney Experience against the Pistons in the 06-07 postseason, and Chris Duhon starting because… well, I don’t know why he ever played so much at all.

by hscs on May 30, 2008 9:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I do, I'm arguing that you can't single anybody out

as having “earned” anything from that team. Noc had a higher PER than BG for the first two thirds of the season, but I definitely don’t think he should have been starting (especially not that the 2 ;-)). And if Tyrus gets his head in the game, he is every bit the game changer that Beasley could be. They just need to do it from November on, not in March and April. Although if it gets them the first pick again, then maybe it’s a sound strategy…

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on May 30, 2008 9:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fair enough

I’d probably exclude Deng from the rest, but it’s a marginal point.

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on May 30, 2008 9:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hollinger had a great quote about Thomas

I forget in what article, but he described Thomas as “a great young talent with a nasty habit of picking up early fouls, but never plays enough to foul out.” Perfect grasp of Boylan and Skiles’ myopia.

by OldSkoolSloan on May 30, 2008 9:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Tyrus may thrive under DC

Not to be redundant but yesterday Ii commented that some were concerned about his impatience with younger, inexperienced players and over reliance on veterans but I believe the young talent will thrive as they see their extra efforts paying off both individually and team wise as he brings out the best of their potential which he will be able to recognize, unlike t.he buffoon who preceded him.

I remember Collins gushing over TT during a Piston/Bulls game last year saying with maturity, motivation, effort and coaching, that Tyrus had the potential to become one of the greatest defensive forwards of all time, describiing him as one of the most physically gifted athletes he had ever seen. This indicates to me that he has no intention of sticking TT at the end of the bench, wondering what his role is and why he is so hated by his coaches. I predicted this will be a breakout season for Tyrus who will be able to handle criticism if he sees the carrot at the end of the stick and all those naysayers will be eating crow about him being a wasted draft pick instead of choosing Aldridge. The rest is up to Tyrus and I see no reason Noah and Thabo won’t make giant strides under his tutelage. He will seem like a Messiah after the last 2 whose rants deflated the psyches of most of the players.

Collins knows this team has raw talent in abundance and if he can control his emotions to a reasonable level and plays his cards right, he can revitalize the Bulls and his reputation to the point of being one of the toasts of Chicago as the fans ask….. Phil who?

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on May 30, 2008 1:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Great Call

I’m happy to hear we have a Tyrus supporter as a coach.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on May 30, 2008 10:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Haha!

“BG earned more playing time with his performance”

You’re either stupid or trying to be funnny.

He had the worst +/- per 100 pos of any player on the team BY FAR…

Let his ass walk! we’ll be better off.

by BAB-Bass on May 30, 2008 9:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, but the prior year he had the 2nd best +/- of the regulars on the team (IIRC)...

...and if we take Derrick Rose, we’ll really need SOMEONE to score. If we do take Rose, I’d much rather move Hinrich than Gordon (assuming we can re-sign Gordon to a reasonable deal) for team balancing purposes. Even with expected growth from Tyrus, a Rose/Hinrich/Deng/Thomas/Noah lineup would not be very good offensively, and BG’s defensive weaknesses can be minimized with more aggressively employing Thabo against certain teams (i.e. Detroit).

Parental Advisory - Explicit Content

by Jivas on May 31, 2008 1:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Great Summary

and lots of good information.
This slow offensive label is not so encouraging? I hope that changes?

by exult463 on May 30, 2008 6:45 AM CDT   0 recs

Carlisle looks better in retrospect

but just because the guy says he’ll push the pace in Dallas does not mean he won’t be the same coach he has shown to be, either. If Carlisle gets the benefit of the doubt, the Collins should as well.

I apparently am one of the few who are not surprised by this hiring and sort of expected it, especially after seeing the names of the other candidates. I couldn’t tell if I was reading a list of coaching candidates or former 7th and 8th men.

Paxson played under Collins during the formative years of Scottie and Horace, so one should be able to assume Pax has some idea of the type of instruction and coaching at least a young Doug Collins was able to provide two up and coming youngsters. He at least has a frame of reference for this hire and one just hopes it’s not too tinted by rose colored glasses.

Who else would have sufficed as a hire and not be subject to the same 2-3 year window most people seem to label the shelf life of this hiring with? Even a guy like D”Antoni didn’t get past 4 years in Phoenix. Shelf life for a coach should not be a concern, there are only three coaches in this league with apparent absolute job security anyway.

by messwiththebull on May 30, 2008 7:14 AM CDT   0 recs

Let's get the names out....

I’m thinking, Phil, Jerry, and greg…

by BAB-Bass on May 30, 2008 9:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This could be a good hire.

The Collins years were the heyday of my fandom. One of those seasons I think I watched (or heard on the radio) all but 3 of the 82 games, as well as listened to Doug’s Sunday morning radio show with Jerry Kuc. Think it was Bobby Knight who was one of the first to push him into coaching, noticing Collins with players and seeing he was a “natural teacher”. From his TV gig you can see he analyzes the flow of a game really well; he’ll develop some solid plays to get the most out of this team. Other thoughts:

—catering to Jordan: yes he did. But remember how unique a player Jordan was. We’re talking one of the GOAT, and certainly the most insanely competitive at the time. Even many seasoned vet coaches would’ve been the same (how did Kevin Loughery handle Jordan? Or Stan Albeck? Collins was an improvement). Yes Phil handled Jordan better, and it really makes you appreciate Phil’s talents. But being an assistant under Collins for a couple of years helped. TrueHoop recently knocked Collin’s intensity over PJ’s Zen calmness, but ask Horace Grant if he preferred Phil’s mindgames over Doug’s teaching.

—Collins’ intensity: yes, he’ll probably be guilty on that one. He was emotional as a coach (positive & negative), and may burn out after a couple of years. Fine. Unless you all booked the championship parade for the next two years, a temp coach isn’t a disaster: we’ll see how many rising teams have the same coach in 2011. But Skiles recently claimed he got better (and mellower) with each successive team/job and I believe it. I think Collins will be similar. He had a lot more to prove years ago as he grew into the job.

-slowing the pace: that’s a worry, because yeah, he did slow things down. And while it’s somewhat less excuseable in recent years, the league was different then. And remember those early Bulls team had NO ONE besides Jordan to score (Gene Banks? Elston Turner? Brad Sellers?). And some of the blame lied with Jordan, who also didn’t trust his teammates-something even the Zenmaster couldn’t get Kobe to do well until recently). Doug has called a bunch of Phoenix Suns games, and though he’s lamented their droughts with his “fool’s gold” line, it’s not because he didn’t see the value in an uptempo style (if you’ve got the players). I want to see an uptempo style too, but I think the D’Antoni episode made us all a lot believe that’s the only solution for this team. This can work, and w/ a good PG it can still be dynamic.

I think I’d prefer Collins over Mark Jackson, Kurt Rambis, or other newbies right now. This can be good.

by T Maple on May 30, 2008 7:17 AM CDT   0 recs

That last point you made has me worried.

Why draft a stud athletic point guard if we are going to be running sets all day that are trying to feed the post.

Well, if it works for Tony Parker and Deron Williams (playing for two teams that are arguably the slowest paced teams in the league) then it could work for Rose. Unless of course they go with draft option #2.

by RogersPark Kris on May 30, 2008 7:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Watch out for what you read...

I always get a kick out of people reading an article, taking it as gospel and then worrying about it. The Hollinger article is ridiculous when one considers the teams that Collins had, not only with the Bulls, but Detroit and Washington. A good coach gets the best out of his players and while a certain style might be biased, there are adjustments.

While one would have to think that the Bulls would be a run and gun team in ‘86 to ‘88 with Jordan, the Bulls had the fleet-footed Gene Banks, Corzine, Oakley, Sellers, Cartwright and the ever creative Sam Vincent at the point. This was a team where Jordan pounded the ball and blew past you, where he pounded the ball and posted you up in Washington. Those Bulls teams though averaged, 105, 105 and 106 ppg. Not bad.

I’d like to think that Collins is somewhat like Jerry Sloan. Very good defensive coach that can change when you add a talented, creative point guard. Utah, which admittedly sucked pre-Williams, averaged 93 ppg and is now well above 100.

Good coaches play their casts the right way. The only knock on Collins for me is that he was slow to infuse Pippen and Grant early on, but he as a 36 year old coach then. Hopefully, he’s seasoned.

by EdNealy on May 30, 2008 12:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That might be a good example, but I'd still hold out on how much Sloan's changed.

His team has gotten considerably quicker the past two seasons, but it’s still only been 15th and 10th in pace. (oh ppg is stupid stat to use across “eras”, btw) What has changed is that his team has gone from very inefficient to number one in efficiency. That might sound like something radical, but really he’s just using the PG and PF offense he perfected before.

If one looks back, his 90’s Utah teams were up and down in pace (typically down), but always efficient. It seems to me, more than changing, he’s just instituted the offense that worked so well before, and simply hasn’t “held back” one of the youngest teams in the NBA in running every once in awhile. I suppose that’s something, but doesn’t seem like any great shakes.

by tyger1147 on May 30, 2008 1:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So you have direct link to the Hollinger stats :)Good point on the PPG across eras...

We can debate as to why scoring is different today (one of my opinions lies in the death of the fundamentally sound ball player hitting a mid range jumper), but you’re right it’s not enormously relevant. Points aside, the Bulls were a top 10 offensive team during the Collins era and top 5 in defense.

by EdNealy on May 31, 2008 7:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The NBA was a much faster league when Dougie was first with the Bulls

Then he came back to the Pistons in the mid 90’s, when Riley and his overcoaching ilk had sucked the air out of the ball, and Collins’s teams were still amongst the slowest in the NBA. The same held true in Washington. The notion that the Bulls need to play at a fast pace has nothing to do with aesthetics and has been around for the last few seasons. The current composition of the roster doesn’t lend well to a slow paced game. There’s no one who can create their own shot in the waning seconds of the shot clock. While Rose might help improve that situation, that’s a lot to put on the shoulders of a 19 year old rookie PG.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 30, 2008 8:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Accountability

Am I the only one fed up with that concept?

Does this mean that Pax will eventually trade the 1st pick for Seattle´s 4th plus Adrian Griffin?

Daddy, hold me….

by Agusnico on May 30, 2008 7:21 AM CDT   0 recs

Yes and no

I’m fed up with lip-service paid to accountability.
Actual accountability would be a welcome change

by Sports2 on May 30, 2008 7:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But for once...

Wouldn´t it be nice to have a coach willing to let players play through their mistakes?

I don´t know who will Pax draft (I would trade for the 2nd pick and get both) but will he bench Rose or beasley (or God willing both) because they screw up?

I think accountability works with proven veterans that don´t give a s*. For example in Detroit. However, we are the youngest team in the league.

I know this will sound cheesy but: “Let the kids play!!”

by Agusnico on May 30, 2008 7:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Deal isn't done yet

I wouldn’t assume Collins is going to be the coach yet. Listening to him on TNT last night, and looking at the somewhat angry Paxson press release yesterday, I think there’s a fair chance someone just blew the lid off this before it was a story. OK, I don’t know that I believe that, but I guess I’m hoping for it.

As far as Collins as coach, I’m not sure how I feel about it. It’s as if Paxson has looked around and thrown his hands up in the air and given up on finding someone he really wants.

I can partially understand that since I was advocating, at this point, a guy like Van Gundy. The last thing we need is another inexperienced guy. Collins is at least experienced.

On the other hand, people might forget his history of sucking the joy out of life for his players. Ironically, I’ve been around for all his coaching stops. I was in Chicago for his first tour with the Bulls. In Michigan when he coached the Pistons. In DC when he coached the Wizards. The common denominator was that he put a pretty good team on the floor and is a good xs and os coach that will quickly turn his players against him. In none of the places I’ve seen him have I seen anyone upset he was gone.

My hope, and semi-theory, is that this is a short-term plan and Pax is also bringing in a protege (although any protege is going to come with the baggage of having to replace Collins from within the staff, which seems difficult to me). When I write it out, I can’t think of many instances of that being successful.

OK, I hope they botch this like they botched D’Antoni.

by Sports2 on May 30, 2008 7:27 AM CDT   0 recs

that's a great point

Collins’ apprentice is going to have Collins’ stink all over him.

by hscs on May 30, 2008 8:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That was Paxson's only real mistake

Not having a guy on the bench waiting to take over when Skiles inevitably burned his bridges. And if the coaching search provides any value, it will be the guy to groom to take over in a couple of years when Collins burns out again.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on May 30, 2008 9:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, my bad

should’ve kept my mouth shut

by tyger1147 on May 30, 2008 11:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Watching the post game banter with Collins and Marv Alberts last night

I started dreaming of a scenario of Paxson cutting off talks with Collins as a way to teach the media a lesson about spreading their lies and innuendo that prevent him from doing his job. I’m holding out hope until they have a press release officially naming Collins the coach.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 30, 2008 8:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would actually admire Paxson

Just because it would be epic if the Bulls were able to fire 2 coaches, tank a season, get the #1 overall pick, miss out on D’Antoni, somehow get snubbed by Avery before getting the #1 pick, interviewing every person alive with basketball experience, allowing every basketball writer and pundit to think for 2 days Collins would be the next coach, only to turn around and say “I’m John Paxson bitch, these be rumors.”

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on May 30, 2008 12:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ozzie you have a vivid imagination

Do you watch many Cowboy movies or the Terminator series often?
Do you often mistake the name “Wayne for Paxson” or “Conner for Paxson”
Pax would never say the “B” word!

More realistic comparision of Paxson handling a situation would be another fellow also name John who starred in the ABC-TV’s sitcom which aired from 1977-1984 called Three’s Company.
Like Paxson, Ritter found making a easy decision difficult …. “should it be Crissy or Janet”, when he easily could have both. :) I meant (Rose and Beasley)

by exult463 on May 31, 2008 3:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What happened to hiring a coach to fit the roster?

Did Paxson focus on the “teacher” part because all his players are such insufferable idiots who just don’t get it, and then completely forget the rest of Collins’ reputation about not letting talent run free.

Right, Paxson. Worry more about the personality of your players than what they can actually do with a basketball. I’m very inspired by this move and have no hope of being excited. I guess that at least rules out “worrying” about this team for the next couple of years.

by tyger1147 on May 30, 2008 7:36 AM CDT   0 recs

D'oh

I saw the title in my RSS reader and thought this was a thread on last night’s Lost finale. Oh well.

Not sure how I feel about the Collins hire. He is a great basketball mind, but reading Hollinger’s take made me nervous. The last thing we need is to slow the pace down. On the rare occasions we did score last year, it was usually on the break. Collins seems to be the polar opposite of D’Antoni in that regard. (Whom I think would have been a perfect fit for an already good defensive team with scoring issues.) Also making me nervous is Hollinger’s point about Collins sticking to vets. Can we expect Pax to sign more washed up vets in the offseason to play along side Hughes and Gooden. God, I hope not. Finally, in When Nothing Else Matters, the book about Jordan’s years in Washington, the author seemed to paint Collins as a high-strung nut who wore on his players sooner rather than later. Exactly what we need!

Mike A.

by peruvianidol on May 30, 2008 7:54 AM CDT   0 recs

that book does Collins few favors

he really does come off as a nutcase.

As for the vets…at least the Bulls have a pretty full roster already, so Devean George likely isn’t walking through that door.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2008 9:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hanley on the score

“this is an easy sell”

Sorry, but doesn’t that just portray the lot of Bulls fans as dolts? (Are we?)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2008 10:11 AM CDT   0 recs

Current Trib pole has 70% or respondents in favor of hiring Collins

Prior to that, Avery Johnson was the favorite. I would say, on average, most fans are stupid enough to buy into the screaming and accountability and veteran bs that guys like Avery and Dougie stand for. Got to whip those immature, young millionaires into shape.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 30, 2008 10:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Damn

Forgot the link

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 30, 2008 10:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

eh

I don’t think just because someone is in favor of the hire (me being one of them) ultimately means that most fans are “stupid” and that they are “buying into” something (note – I definitely don’t take offense to what you said).

I look at this hire exactly what I believe it to be, a band-aid. A 2-3 year one. Were there fresher, less nervous, and less of a nutcase candidates available? Of course. Would they have been as experienced, as knowledgedable, and as able to run a team? Maybe, most likely no.

I don’t think this is a “let’s whip them into shape” thing. I just think it’s more of a “let’s get back on track” thing. I could care less about pace as long as it equals more wins. If they climb back to respectability next season and get up and around the 50-win plateau again, but play a slow grind in the process, it obviously doesn’t matter. It looks like he was brought in to kinda restore order, and nothing with his previous coaching stops says that he won’t do that.

by NormVanBeer on May 30, 2008 11:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, but what 'track'

the track turned out to be pretty dead-ended. The team was getting pretty good but were any of the players that much better? They needed to go in a new direction that’d actually try and maximize what was there, instead of squeezing it until it bled.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2008 12:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i feel you

but even still, there IS a track to be gotten back on. A 16-game loss difference in one season is huge. I think he’ll get them back on the 49-win track again, or at least close to it.

All-in-all, I still think he’s going to be the Point A to Point B coach again. But this time, everybody already knows it.

by NormVanBeer on May 30, 2008 12:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I expect they

should be getting back to .500+, given the addition of pick #1 and Collins (admitted) positives. What’s so great about that, if he repeats past tendencies by sacrificing Tyrus and Thabo PT to Gooden and Hughes, for example?

It’s this kind of short term thinking that really gets me, and that I’m afraid Pax is guilty of (forgive me if that’s not the case here w/ you, Norm). What’s so bad about committing to the youth for real, not like Skiles’/B_ _ _’s start-Thomas-a-few-only-to-bench-him-more-than-a-few-BS of last year. Would it be so awful to suck for the first half and come on like gangbusters the 2nd, like Philly did? Even if it didn’t happen that way, it figures to the following year. Pax has got to take a meaningful, patient look at these kids. If not for their sake, then for his.

My initial reaction was similar to yours, but I could only make it last a few moments. The pace issue doesn’t really bother me, ‘cause it means the D is sure to return. (And plenty of transition basket excitement). But I wanted a coach that 1) would use the “right” players and 2) had an easier going demeanor (after Skiles). I just don’t trust Collins’ has suddenly taken to the practice of meditation, and that he’ll play the kids, regardless.

But the big impression is that this is further evidence of Paxson’s complete lack of vision. Even more than before, Pax should be thinking 3+ years ahead after getting Rose/Beasley, and thinking in terms of dominating the East, not just getting back on track.

I read and understand your post comment. In fact, I’ve reread it in the hope that it rubs off on me. I really wish I shared your optimism, NVB.

The public wants what the public gets....

by marionette on May 30, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so if I understand you

you’re saying that you would rather have Tyrus and Thabo play a lot of minutes and the team be crappy instead of them playing lesser minutes and the team be good?

by NormVanBeer on May 30, 2008 4:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We already tried

limiting Tyrus and Thabo and we lost out last year. Nuff said there. Perhaps if we had someone better than them to play, but I would argue that Hughes and Gooden are not those people. Then we are talking about players that are not even on the team. We have who we have and Tyrus and Thabo are better than their counterparts for the Bulls at this time. Win or lose. Putting time in them is an investment. Putting time into Hughes for example would be throwing it away.

by cranscape on May 30, 2008 4:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

wow dude

you just totally missed the point. Get off of the Tyrus and Thabo train for long enough to see the point. I wasn’t saying that he SHOULD limit Tyrus and Thabo. It was hypothetical. The point was that IF he did limit them, but at the same time, the Bulls happened to improve, would it be looked at as a failure? I say no. But obviously others say yes, which I don’t understand.

by NormVanBeer on May 30, 2008 4:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

improve to what?

2nd round flameout again? I’d still consider that a failure.

In fact any scenario where Thomas doesn’t turn out to be great (or turned into something great) is less than ideal. He’s one of the few (plus another guy coming soon) who could project to be standouts on a title contender. Thabo I don’t expect to improve much anyway.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 30, 2008 4:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs