Trib: Doug Collins expected to be next Bulls coach
This report from KC Johnson was mentioned earlier today in a (since hidden) fanpost, but that was a first draft, with the idea that Collins could be coming in as either the head coach or an assistant.
Now?
Six weeks ago Thursday, shortly after firing interim coach Jim Boylan, general manager John Paxson talked about hiring someone who passionately resonated with players and fans.
How about Doug Collins?
Sources confirmed the former Bulls coach is expected to become the new Bulls coach....
Paxson, according to sources, first contacted Collins about the job shortly after firing Boylan. At that time, Collins gave indications he didn't want to return to coaching...But Collins' extremely close relationship with Paxson, friendship with team Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf (who fired Collins) and the Bulls winning the draft lottery have changed his mind, sources said.
One of the many younger coaches Paxson also has interviewed is expected to land on Collins' staff.
Well...fire away in the comments. I'm pretty numb in terms of an initial reaction. 'Shock', more than anything.
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441 comments
Comments
Wow, that's a big let down
I have no informed opinion of Collins, but I was hoping for some fresh blood in the organization.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 10:05 AM CDT
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Agreed.
If here coming w/o Rose, I’d completely write off the next three years.
by tyger1147 on
May 29, 2008 10:05 AM CDT
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Well, good luck.
Looks like Collins and the #1 pick for Beasley. GREAT MOVES PAXSON!! HAHA!!
by Flimjo on
May 29, 2008 12:05 PM CDT
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NO WAY--THIS IS PERFECT!
Doug C. is perfect, as long as he pushes the pace a little. He’s absolutely a “teaching” coach, he has cred around the league, and quite frankly, with a fresh attitude the Bulls should now be able to stay with any team in the league.
D’Antoni would have been better offensively, but Doug C. is a really good coach. And I believe he has learned from his first experience here, in which he became too frenetic and gave off the wrong vibe with his emotional rollercoaster.
It’s like grabbing Obi Wan Kenobi out of the dessert and having him join the war.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
May 29, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
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...or even out of the desert.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
May 29, 2008 1:27 PM CDT
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haha
hilarious typo. and I agree with you 100%. Collins is insightful, positive, and is a teacher. I love pick – it’s someone I didn’t even consider but i’m much happier with Collins than I would have been with any of the other guys outside D’antoni.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on
May 29, 2008 6:04 PM CDT
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Ugh, like it even less now
Each of his teams has finished in the last 3 spots in the league in pace. This could be a real boring tenure.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 10:13 AM CDT
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Didn't know that
thanks for looking that up, even if it’s depressing. Too late to steal George Karl??
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:17 AM CDT
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Great info....
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on
May 29, 2008 1:29 PM CDT
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Why is this bad?
I’m not sure why you’re so down on this, I think it’s a great move. Apparently you were a huge Kurt Rambis fan. Did you really want to entrust the 1st pick and a bunch of talent to some first time head coach without a clue? Collins is a great choice, he’s the type of guy I absolutely feel comfortable with taking the reins.
by Juiceboxjerry on
May 29, 2008 10:18 AM CDT
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I don't know anywhere enough about any of the assitant candidates to form an opinion of
What I do, though, have an opinion on is that this team is best suited for an uptempo game. Doug Collins’s track record as a head coach doesn’t exactly lead one to believe he’d be successful, if even willing to do so, with such a pace. I wouldn’t cast aspersions on all retreads as I liked the idea of D’Antoni, hoped for Karl, and was warming up to Bzdelik. These are all coaches whose teams play uptempo and could fit well. At the same time, good coaches have to get their first gig sometime and, if it’s the right fit, I would have no problem with one of the assistants landing the head coaching spot with the Bulls.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 10:27 AM CDT
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I'm fine with it....
...seems like a great basketball mind. Didn’t have too much to work with in Wash from what I recall. I’m not old enough to remember his old stint with the Bulls…I don’t know what’s so shocking about it. Our other choices are Avery Johnson, Jeff Hornacek, Tyrone Corbin, etc…
by seang03 on
May 29, 2008 10:05 AM CDT
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Bz-Dlik wasn't a bad option
We wouldn’t have to read and hear about Doug Collins’ second chance, Michael Jordan, point A and B, and C. Plus he can’t coach offense, so boo.
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 10:11 AM CDT
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oh yikes
the return of the championship road map, you’re right…
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:18 AM CDT
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Wow...
How about this for speculative conspiracy: No way Collins puts together a too-competent staff. Could you imagine AGAIN being fired in favor of an assistant to only have suffered through the rebuilding years to watch someone else take over a championship team?
by tyger1147 on
May 29, 2008 10:05 AM CDT
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well, he's halfway there
with the holdovers.
It’s reading like theres some succession plan with whomever the ‘new’ assistant(s) will be. Although Doug isn’t as old as he looks.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:16 AM CDT
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heh
well according to both the Trib and the Herald –
He was also left with good impressions of three candidates who interviewed in Chicago last week _ Utah assistant Tyrone Corbin, Lakers assistant Kurt Rambis and Sacramento assistant Chuck Person.
Since this sounds like it’s not going to be long-term thing anyway, maybe Paxson convinces Collins to hire those three?
by NormVanBeer on
May 29, 2008 10:19 AM CDT
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I wouldn't be worried about Pax convincing anyone
Skiles mentioned he didn’t get to hire any of his assistants in Chicago or Phoenix, but I’m sure he had some input in hiring his BFF Boylan. Collins likely won’t be charged with putting a staff together.
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 10:21 AM CDT
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at least there was some benefit
to the endless interview queue.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:23 AM CDT
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Those 3?
Why would you leave good teams in Utah or a potential dynasty in LA as an assistant to be an assistant for the Bulls? For the potential to maybe one day be the head coach?
by bullschwaa on
May 29, 2008 10:54 AM CDT
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uh, yes?
There are only 30 head coaching jobs, so even a ‘promise’ of one is something worth considering.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:57 AM CDT
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phew
I’m glad Pax is hiring a new assistant coach too. Ron and Pete need to be pushed!
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 10:06 AM CDT
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I dont know about Doug Collins.....
really i dont know about any of these guys that he is interviewing except Avery Johnson(i think he is Scott Skiles black twin anyway) so as long as they pick Rose i am cool with it
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on
May 29, 2008 10:08 AM CDT
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I'm particularly happy
that KC got scooped by the Daily Herald.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 10:10 AM CDT
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well, the Herald
still says ‘may’.
It does look like they beat KC overall with the Collins idea, although both admit they scooped it from a Phoenix radio station.
I didn’t read my dailies this morning, so I blame all of you for not posting the Herald version first.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:13 AM CDT
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i like it
whenever Collins covered a Bulls game he always seemed like he had a good knowledge of the Bulls players, and their strengths and weaknesses. He was usually spot on with his assessments…but then again, most of us are too
by NormVanBeer on
May 29, 2008 10:12 AM CDT
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Jeff Van Gundy said the Bulls needed to be an uptempo team.
What are the chances that the Bulls would end up an uptempo team if he actually coached them? It’s a lot easier to analyze from outside the fox hole.
formerly sbulls
by Scotter on
May 29, 2008 10:14 AM CDT
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exactly
hence my ending statement that “most of us are too”.
by NormVanBeer on
May 29, 2008 10:16 AM CDT
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well, that's true
although I sure wanted to believe him :)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:19 AM CDT
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So Doug Collins's teams have finished in the bottom five teams
in pace every season he coached. What are the chances he changes?
formerly sbulls
by Scotter on
May 29, 2008 10:25 AM CDT
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I said I wanted to believe
I believe the chances are slim. I’ll give him a pass in Washington, he had to cater to MJ’s huge ego and shot legs.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:34 AM CDT
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sounds like he is setting himself up
to be the the A to B again anyway. He’s a good coach, let’s just hope D. Rose isn’t the type to cuss him out…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 29, 2008 10:39 AM CDT
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OTOH, they've all been good teams
Average or above-average in both offensive and defensive efficiency, w/ the exceptions in Washington.
If he can at least get the team to a Top-12 offensive, Top-5 defensive team, I’d be satisfied for the next three years. Of course, if that’s possible to be that good offensively at a slow pace with this personnel… that’s the question.
by tyger1147 on
May 29, 2008 10:36 AM CDT
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SunTimes
Sun-Times Bulls beat writer Brian Hanley broke the story today that Doug Collins will be the Bulls head coach.The deal is expected to be announced sooner rather than later.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/fullcourtpress/2008/05/doug_collins_is_the_bulls_head.html#more
by NormVanBeer on
May 29, 2008 10:23 AM CDT
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Paxson's First choice
You’ve gotta think that this was Paxson’s first choice even though he moved on to D’antoni. He probably wanted Collins all along but did;nt think it was possible. I like that because it means we’re not settling for a coach after D’antoni screwed us. If Pax had his choice initially he would’ve taken Collins .
by Juiceboxjerry on
May 29, 2008 10:24 AM CDT
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completely agree
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 10:24 AM CDT
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they did say
in the article that collins was contacted early on in the search.
guess it took the #1 pick to convince him. :P
by Jaina on
May 29, 2008 10:27 AM CDT
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you're right
Paxson, according to sources, first contacted Collins about the job shortly after firing Boylan. At that time, Collins gave indications he didn’t want to return to coaching.
by NormVanBeer on
May 29, 2008 10:27 AM CDT
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Or that's just spin.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:34 AM CDT
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No
Just think about everything paxson likes in players and coaches, don’t you think Collins is the physichal embodiment of all of that stuff. You gotta think this is such a paxson type of coach
by Juiceboxjerry on
May 29, 2008 10:37 AM CDT
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re: spin
Why didn’t we know about this initial call to Collins earlier? First we heard of him was in the D’Antoni negotiations.
It smells like an intentional leak of “oh yeah, we wanted this guy all along” as a covering of the ass.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:05 AM CDT
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or maybe courting D'Antoni for a couple of weeks
helped sell season tickets. Collins was also courted for the Milwaukee job early on and reportedly told them he had no interest.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 29, 2008 11:08 AM CDT
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yes, I'm sure that was it.
Even in this post-hire hindsight reporting, there’s no indication that Collins was a first choice, just that he was contacted after Boylan was fired. As was apparently 84% of the league’s assistant coaches, and some not-yet-retired current players.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:11 AM CDT
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Talent Evaluation
Plus I like the idea of Collins, a very smart basketball guy, assisting Paxson in evaluating the draft and the bulls current roster.
by Juiceboxjerry on
May 29, 2008 10:29 AM CDT
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Collins knows all about draft busts
He was one himself, and he coached Kwame.
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 10:33 AM CDT
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Oh yea..
I fogot about that one
by Juiceboxjerry on
May 29, 2008 10:34 AM CDT
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4-time All-Star
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 1:14 PM CDT
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but, in fairness to hscs
(seeing as he’s always been fair to me), Collins was the #1 ovrerall pick, and I think more could have been expected from that pick.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 1:17 PM CDT
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After a career ending injury?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."
by californiachicagoan on
May 29, 2008 3:17 PM CDT
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Collins was the 3rd or 4th best player on his own team
during the best years of his career. Not much of a #1 pick.
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 1:17 PM CDT
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My initial reaction is this is a good choice
Collins clearly is knowledgeable about the game. It appears Paxson believes one of the assistants he interviewed has great potential as Head Coach. Collins can groom the Assistant. This allows Collins to see this as a temporay job which may decrease the pressure on him since he is very intense and appeared close to a breakdown in previous head coach jobs.
Collin’s knowledge and intensity can jump-start the team. He should grab the attention of the players. This may help us get off to a reasonable start for the first time in ten years.
by chgobr on
May 29, 2008 10:32 AM CDT
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But if you're an assistant on a winning team...
...why leave the current team for another one.
by tyger1147 on
May 29, 2008 10:38 AM CDT
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Money talks
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 10:39 AM CDT
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$$ talks
When do the Bulls overpay coaches?
by bullschwaa on
May 29, 2008 10:57 AM CDT
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Who said anything about overpaying?
I know it’s fun and easy to cry the Bulls are cheap, but do you even have evidence that they pay their assistants less than other teams?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 11:01 AM CDT
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Money Talks
Implies that the Bulls will pay more than Utah or LA to make the Bulls job more appealing, who would you rather be an assistant with LA or the Bulls?
by bullschwaa on
May 29, 2008 11:06 AM CDT
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It's more what Matt said up there earlier...
The belief that they have a chance to succeed Collins is better to most coaches than a couple thousand.
by CrashDavis on
May 29, 2008 11:09 AM CDT
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Paying more does not equal overpaying
If money were equal, I’d probably want the Lakers job first (get to coach Kobe, Phil’s hips won’t allow him to stay forever), Bulls second (Collins won’t last much more than 2 seasons) then the Jazz (Sloan doesn’t seem to want to leave anytime soon). If someone offered more money and/or implications of a future head coaching job, I’d follow that trail.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 11:11 AM CDT
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I was going to get into that...
...but Corbin is still new and might “know” that he’s 2nd or 3rd or lower on the who’s-after-Jerry list. And if we’re talking Shaw and Rambis, both can’t be the next HC. And Person? Well, that team has an okay future because of Martin, but not much else (says my woeful memory).
by tyger1147 on
May 29, 2008 11:14 AM CDT
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pretty sure
phil johnson may be the next in line in utah. so maybe corbin would want to go if he knows he’s first in line in chicago.
by Jaina on
May 29, 2008 11:18 AM CDT
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Maybe not
Johnson’s actually older than Sloan
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:30 AM CDT
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really?
wow. but i thought i had read that somewhere – i could easily be mistaken.
by Jaina on
May 29, 2008 11:58 AM CDT
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no I read he's a successor as well
but it was with that age question in there.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:59 AM CDT
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I don't thing the Bulls are cheap.
At worst, you might say they tend to keep their powder dry until the time is right.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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did u know he average 29 points a game at Illinois state.....
get used to it folks….....http://www.23.pl/pix/cv/1jordan_collins86.jpg
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on
May 29, 2008 10:36 AM CDT
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Collins does not seem like
a step down. I don’t know if I’d say a step up just yet, but definately not a step down
by gman2849 on
May 29, 2008 10:37 AM CDT
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I repeat...Doug %@* Collins?!?!
As I said in my fanpost-this is an awful move. Why would you recycle a coach who has never gotten a team to the Finals? This is in keeping with the Bulls organizational philosophy-the coach needs to be a disciplinarian, a screamer, someone who can keep those young punk players in line. He is not an innovative offensive or defensive coach, and don’t forget that he has the exact same reputation as Skiles-maybe OK for a rebuilding situation, but his teams tire of him quickly. I’m old enough to remember Collins’ first go-around with the Bulls-a big reason he was fired was because Pippen and Grant got sick of him. This is pure nepotism, Pax and Reinsdorf just mining the old-boy network.
vanillablue.wordpress.com
by vanillablue on
May 29, 2008 10:47 AM CDT
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to the finals?
that’s a pretty select criteria. I assume you’re an Avery Johnson fan then?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:52 AM CDT
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not so much
I mean that if you’re going to recycle a coach who has been fired multiple times, at least get someone who has a significant track record of success. Collins’ most successful playoff run was with the ‘88-’89 Bulls. That was a damn long time ago.
With a young team and the #1 pick in the draft, I was hoping for more than Pax just hiring his buddy, but I guess that’s his established M.O. by now.
vanillablue.wordpress.com
by vanillablue on
May 29, 2008 11:27 AM CDT
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Maybe Horace Grant didn’t like him.
Obviously Jordon liked him. Collins freed up Jordan to let him post the most spectacular numbers of his career. This is what he will also do for Derrick Rose. Collins will scheme Rose into superstardom.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 10:53 AM CDT
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somehow I don't think it was 'scheme'
that got ‘jordon’ to superstardom.
Sam’s (famous) version of the story was that Collins enabled Jordan, and in turn wasn’t respected. It took Phil to get Jordan to that next level of team success.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
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Collins opened every possible door for Jordan
Maybe, as you say, he ‘enabled’ Jordan, but I think the most important thing-right now-for the Bulls is to maximise Derrick Rose. I think Collins will do this.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 10:59 AM CDT
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Do you honestly think that's what is going to happen?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 11:01 AM CDT
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Since it obviously hasn't been posted enough in this thread for you to pick up on
Each of Collins teams finished in the bottom 3 of the league in pace factor. That’s kind of a strong tendency to slow things down.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 11:02 AM CDT
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Everyone needs to
sit back and consider who our coach could be if we didn’t land this pick. I don’t know how you can knock this hire.
by Juiceboxjerry on
May 29, 2008 11:04 AM CDT
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conflicting ideas here
first off a slow pace coach needs a big man in the middle. ... Beaseley
however, if one man has been around to help develop a fast superstar guard…. ROSE
by gman2849 on
May 29, 2008 11:05 AM CDT
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Beasley isn't big, and doesn't play in the post
We don’t know if he’s a good isolation player yet, so a slow pace may not suit him at all.
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 11:08 AM CDT
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the Bulls could have hired a coach
who actually wants to coach the rest of the roster, and isn’t a big, fat quitter.
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 11:06 AM CDT
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Collins?
or are you talking about Skiles?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:08 AM CDT
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I'm talking about all of them
Aren’t coaches supposed to be all about facing adversity, and taking on challenges? The pre-#1 Bulls weren’t even a challenging coaching gig, unless Skiles was the greatest coach ever, and the roster really does stink. I know coach-speak is bullshit, but I’d rather the Bulls hire a guy who believes his own bullshit, not someone who wants to ride the coattails of a #1 draft pick.
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 11:24 AM CDT
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Jordan averaged 25 shots/game under Collins
He also had his biggest scoring season under Collins (37 ppg).
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 11:07 AM CDT
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Great, he let Jordan dominate the ball
Other than lending evidence to him capitulating to all of Jordan’s wishes, what does that exactly tell us?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 11:08 AM CDT
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It's how every other team he's coached has played.
A slow pace doesn’t mean the offense will stink, but his teams were mediocre offensively too.
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 11:05 AM CDT
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If they draft rose
they have to play at a faster pace because they will be suffocated in the half court.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 29, 2008 11:13 AM CDT
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or the pace is set by the coach, and it just suffocates Rose
that is an option, you know. Thus the ‘worry’.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:16 AM CDT
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so much pessimism
but yeah, it could happen that way. Either way, if Rose is the new PG, they are going to start off losing games regardless of what the pace is. The real question is how quickly rose adjusts to the nba game and learns to control the game, assuming he is the pick and the starter.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 29, 2008 11:19 AM CDT
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of course
Having Rose covers up a lot of mistakes Paxson’s made and sure to make (they all do).
That doesn’t mean it’s not legitimate to question what type of coach Collins is going to be.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:34 AM CDT
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20 years ago i was going into kindergarten
now, i am living on my own. hmmm, people change over twenty years, wouldnt you say? This is collins last chane at a ring, and his second shot in chicago, i think that will be motivating for him to change up his style, if need be. and if rose is picked, and becomes the star we all want him to be, i doubt collins is going to be dumb enough to get in his way. collins is a great coach, and a good mind, and if you surround him and the players with a good staff, things will be alright. lets see what happens, and stop holding things against collins that happened when the cold war was still going on
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on
May 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT
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He already had two chances to change his style
Maybe he changes, but I wouldn’t want to bet on it.
formerly sbulls
by Scotter on
May 29, 2008 12:54 PM CDT
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I doubt he will
I fear our offense will mirror the Cavs of the 90s when they had Terrell Brandon. Highly effective, but oh so shitty to watch.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:59 PM CDT
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Mediocre?
As in average to slightly-above average? Considering the team the Bulls have, I’ll take being in the top half over being in the bottom five in offensive efficiency.
by tyger1147 on
May 29, 2008 11:28 AM CDT
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He got to mediocre
by putting the ball in the hands of his best player and getting out of the way. Having a mediocre offense with Jordan in his prime or Grant Hill when he could still jump isn’t a great accomplishment.
formerly sbulls
by Scotter on
May 29, 2008 12:56 PM CDT
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Collins made Jordan the point guard
The long term strategy was doctored by Winter and then implemented by Jackson. Jordan was awesome. He would continue to be awesome. But the team wouldn’t go anywhere in the playoffs until Jordan would believe in the triangle, play within it, and get the ball to Pippen, Grant, and Cartwright.
by NBA Observer on
May 29, 2008 1:09 PM CDT
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I like this hire—a lot.
Collins was my dark horse first choice in Orlando’s coach poll last week. Once the Bulls won the lottery, Paxson had to hire a "name" guy with head coaching experience.
My impression of Paxson is that he’s much happier in a supporting role (I tried to get 1958 to hire Pax as his lead proofreader a while back), and with a big personality like Doug Collins out front, Pax gets to slide back into the background.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 10:49 AM CDT
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Fuck me.
Someone just shoot me in the head to keep me from ever reading this bullshit again.
by tyger1147 on
May 29, 2008 11:30 AM CDT
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only if we can do the same
to keep you from commenting on it.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:35 AM CDT
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"Collins was my dark horse first choice in Orlando’s coach poll last week."
confirmed!
sweet call bro…i shot you down on that idea, but I’m here to eat crow!
by Orlando Woolridge on
May 29, 2008 4:26 PM CDT
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Yeah, great job pulling something out of your ass and having it somehow come true
I wish I had your kind of mad skill
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 4:29 PM CDT
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I think I already mentioned
we’re not hiring any trainees.
Just wait for my tradeHinrich/keepDuhon scenario to unfold….
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 4:35 PM CDT
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i'm not sure how i feel about this
because it’s kind of a letdown after everything, i guess. however, collins is a smart guy and there’s that. and he’s been relatively successful – i just worry about the pace of the team. i guess we’ll see.
though i’m definitely interested if we bring in a candidate from the list of interviewees as an assistant to take over – i liked most of the guys on his list.
by Jaina on
May 29, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
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Good hire but...
does anyone know whether he is a Rose or Beasley guy? I’m hoping Rose!
by seventytwo&ten on
May 29, 2008 11:02 AM CDT
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I'm hoping
Pax said “this is who I’m taking, how would you coach him?”
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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Me too
I think Pax should hire based upon the player, not the coach, as coaches are known to come and go. But I’m sure he will also take input from whoever he hires as to their ideas of who to draft.
by seventytwo&ten on
May 29, 2008 11:09 AM CDT
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In all of those radio interviews after the lottery
Pax pretty much said that he and the scouts run the show during the draft, that the coach doesn’t matter as much in the selection of players. At that point, of course, he was countering a question about not having a coach, but it didn’t sound like a dodge or bullshit. I don’t think Collins will be making the decision.
by arjoseph on
May 29, 2008 1:45 PM CDT
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Just a thought
Maybe Collins is the uber-temp, filling in for one or two seasons until somebody else takes his place…like that Italian coach for Moscow who was mentioned in a previous fanpost?
If Collins is hired, I’d take a good look at who the chosen assistants will be.
by KentuckyBullsFan on
May 29, 2008 11:17 AM CDT
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I'm feeling more and more
better about this. Collins evokes memories of Michael Jordon. and Michael Jordan evokes memories of dynasties.
and Bulls Dynasties make me very very happy
by gman2849 on
May 29, 2008 11:20 AM CDT
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My thoughts...
As far as coaches go, my belief is that you should get guys that maximized their own abilities to be better than they should have been. I think a guy like that knows how to improve and picks up on advantages quicker than a guy who could get by on talent and athleticism alone. Not to say that you can’t have both in a player but would you rather have a guy like Ryan Leaf coaching or Doug Flutie?
I really don’t know where this puts me as far as Collins goes, but I guess there really was no “right” answer aside from the D’Antoni love. After that the only options were Avery Johnson and a million assistants looking for their break. So for those complaining about the hire…who would you rather the Bulls have gotten?
by CubFan81 on
May 29, 2008 11:23 AM CDT
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No surprise here
As I mentioned in another post, during the Chad Ford call, Paxson clearly gave the impression that Collins would be his choice but he felt that Doug had moved on from coaching.
I think it’s a great hire. Two to three year term for Doug and then Pax can either promote one of the young assistants or see who else is on the market. These are both better options than hiring a newbie right now and see what he can or can’t do.
by messwiththebull on
May 29, 2008 11:25 AM CDT
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so you're looking forward to
more mediocrity for the next two to three years, huh?
a year ago, this team won 49 games. now we’re supposed to be happy about getting a recycled failure as a coach?
vanillablue.wordpress.com
by vanillablue on
May 29, 2008 11:34 AM CDT
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If you don't see Collins as a longterm solution, why hire him?
Especially when you take into account the fact that this is the youngest team in the NBA, why waste the formative years of a players career on a guy you’re not completely sold on? Sure, hiring one of the “newbies” would have been risky, but probably less risky than handing over a young team to a coach whose claim to fame is getting out of Jordan’s way.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 11:35 AM CDT
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it could be a similar 'waste'
to have a first-time coach who you don’t know is even competent. At least Collins is that.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:36 AM CDT
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competent?
Doug Collins hasn’t won a playoff series since 1989. That’s a pretty low bar for competence. Not saying that a rookie coach would automatically be better, but let’s not overstate Collins’ qualifications here.
vanillablue.wordpress.com
by vanillablue on
May 29, 2008 11:41 AM CDT
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teams win playoff series
not (just) coaches.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:45 AM CDT
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so do you like it or not?
C’mon, Matt—if someone had told you at the end of the season that Boylan would be replaced by Doug Collins, would you really have been OK with it?
Collins is a thrice-fired failure of a coach. There’s no justification for hiring him, other than Pax and Reinsdorf wanting one of their buddies around.
vanillablue.wordpress.com
by vanillablue on
May 29, 2008 11:52 AM CDT
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ah, but that's merely only one of the justifications.
it’s a lame reason though.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:00 PM CDT
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Color me unimpressed
His successes came with Jordan and the pre-injury destroyed Grant Hill. You even alluded to above that he alienated the rest of the team his first go around with the Bulls by greatly favoring Jordan. His interest peaking with the Bulls winning the lottery doesn’t bode well for his commitment to the rest of the players on the team. While winning the lottery was great, this team’s future is going to depend on more than just the future of Rose or Beasley. Oh well, maybe Karl will be finally be available when Collins is fired or quits in 2 years.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 11:52 AM CDT
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Because Doug is a teacher and believe it or not, the Bulls are rebuilding
I don’t care that they won 49 games two years ago. I saw the bottom fall out last year and our “core” get exposed. Everyone seems to think the Bulls are one player away from contending in the East. I would love to see this happen, but I am not betting on that unless Rose (it damn well better be Rose) is an immediate difference maker.
by messwiththebull on
May 29, 2008 11:37 AM CDT
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our "core" is young and in a similar
learning curve. So I think their misstep last year was only a hiccup.
they are still a very young team, but the “core” has 3 years of playoff experience under their belt. plus gordon and deng are in contract years.
AND were still adding a star to this mix.
by gman2849 on
May 29, 2008 11:43 AM CDT
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is he a teacher?
I read he also has a rep for being overbearing on young players as well.
(I admit I don’t know/remember much of the Doug)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 11:47 AM CDT
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We need to bust out every Phil autobiography
I actually can remember some stuff, I read Halberstam’s book a few weeks ago. Doug was not an overbearing guy, just HIGHLY emotional. He would berate Scottie or Horace one day, then hug them and tell them he loved them the next. Unlike even-keel Phil, Doug just lived too much on the highs and lows of a basketball season, which burned the team and himself out. I want to believe he’s not like that anymore, as he’s mellowed out with age. Plus, after over a decade of broadcasting, he obviously knows what head coaches make it and which ones don’t. He is extremely intelligent, which is something I am excited about. Getting a guy who knows so much about the game to teach our young players something other than “playing hard” will be a refreshing change. When you listen to him on TNT during Bulls games, he knows that roster inside and out, it won’t be that hard for him to get acclimated to the players.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 11:54 AM CDT
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emotional is not
what I would call this bulls team.
I think they could use a shot in the arm of that stuff.
by gman2849 on
May 29, 2008 12:01 PM CDT
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good call on label of 'emotional'
my biggest exposure to Collins is through the Michael Leahy book about the Jordan Wiz. Collins comes off as a 2-season long nervous breakdown.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:02 PM CDT
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Can you imagine coaching your boss
And the boss is MJ, and the roster is chock full of Courtney Alexanders and Kwame Browns? Ugh, that’s a heart attack waiting to happen.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:03 PM CDT
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that's true
but it is what it is (or was).
Another young player that was run out of town was Rip Hamilton. But that was likely more the great M.Jeff.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:05 PM CDT
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That was MJ
Because it brought UNC great Stack in
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:06 PM CDT
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Chad Ford claims he is.
Ryan, Chicago: Doug Collins in Chicago, is this a good fit?
SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:04 PM ET ) I think so. He is one of the best teachers in the game. He’s very passionate. He has a ton of experience and he’s a big name in Chicago. He also has John Paxson’s trust. After getting killed for messing up the Mike D’Antoni hire, I think this was the Bulls next best option. Collins will only be able to handle the stress for a couple of years if history plays out. But that gives the Bulls time to have him possibly groom a young successor.
Lil' Jon, he always tells the truth.
by upther on
May 29, 2008 12:18 PM CDT
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Thanks for the link....
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on
May 29, 2008 1:42 PM CDT
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All of a sudden....
tonight’s spurs-lakers game has some added intrigue. It will be interesting to see if Collins broaches the topic during the telecast. Not sure how they could avoid it.
by Juiceboxjerry on
May 29, 2008 11:30 AM CDT
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Does that mean were bringing back the
Triangle offense?
by gman2849 on
May 29, 2008 11:35 AM CDT
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heh, if Rambis and/or Shaw
are hired in as the possible “assistant-in-waiting”, then maybe so. I think anything’s game at this point.
by NormVanBeer on
May 29, 2008 11:39 AM CDT
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Collins was never particularly in love with it
At the time he was all about getting MJ the ball 50 different ways in a game.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:34 PM CDT
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No
Collins has spent the last 20 years designing the PERFECT offense:
it’s called THE PENTANGLE.
/I got nuthin
by KentuckyBullsFan on
May 29, 2008 1:30 PM CDT
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lol
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
May 29, 2008 1:37 PM CDT
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Sorry, that was really Boylan's "perfect offense":
5 jumpshooters and not a care in the world
/Collins is a good choice…just need somebody that the players will respect; who better than a local legend and former #1 overall draft pick
by KentuckyBullsFan on
May 29, 2008 1:38 PM CDT
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I don't think the players know or care
about Collins’ ‘legend’
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 1:44 PM CDT
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your probably right...
...but they will know of him:
1) from announcing NBA games and coming off level-
2) know he coached Jordan for a bit (though I guess he was also fired by him)
They probably won’t know anything about that history with the Russians in the Olympics.
by KentuckyBullsFan on
May 29, 2008 1:50 PM CDT
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MJ and Grant Hill
both had their best years under Collins. With the #1 pick in our back pocket, it’s not a bad thing to bring in a coach who lets his stars be stars.
It’ll be interesting to see if this affects the pick at all, as Collins has never coached an above average point guard before (Sam Vincent, Lindsey Hunter, Chris Whitney).
by YaoPau on
May 29, 2008 11:37 AM CDT
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MJ
had his best years under Jackson. Maybe his most exciting and athletic years were under Collins, but not his best.
by NormVanBeer on
May 29, 2008 11:38 AM CDT
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Collins took the lid off Jordan.
I think that’s what YP is saying…at least that’s what I’m saying.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 11:39 AM CDT
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I read
what you and YaoPau saying as completely different things. Even if Collins did “take the lid off”, and? He STILL had his best years as a player under Phil. At least that’s what I’m saying.
by NormVanBeer on
May 29, 2008 11:41 AM CDT
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I think that youth had something to do
With that as well.
by gman2849 on
May 29, 2008 11:40 AM CDT
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Actually, Grant did have his best single season with Collins
His next 3 best seasons in PER came after Collins had left or the season during which Collins left. Of course, you have to take into account the fact that Hill really only had 3.5 healthy seasons in his career without Collins as his head coach.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 11:58 AM CDT
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or Pax for that matter
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
May 29, 2008 1:38 PM CDT
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Wow....total shock
I just don’t get it. Paxson interviewed every candidate imaginable….and he gets to Doug Collins, a guy we were thinking about in like March? I was initially pissed off, but then I realized…..Collins just might end up being the best candidate out there! Look at what’s available….Thibodeau, Shaw, Corbin, these are guys that may or may not be fine coaches, but we don’t know what to expect of them. Doug Collins is a very intelligent guy, like we’re talking Hubie Brown basketball intelligence. The only problem with him in Chicago was that he worked too hard, burned himself and the players out. Will he be different as a middle-aged man? He’s a great offensive innovater, in all of Phil’s books he always expressed admiration with how easily Collins could draw up a play that would seem to work. I just feel so uneasy with him being hired after a whole month of random interviews, the D’Antoni fiasco, the Avery snub, etc.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 11:49 AM CDT
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One theory going up hire in this blog for hiring collins is
to repeat the scenario he had with getting the bulls to the next level
by gman2849 on
May 29, 2008 11:51 AM CDT
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There's also speculation
That Paxson may still be trying to lure another assistant to the team, maybe indirectly having Collins groom his successor.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 11:55 AM CDT
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if MJ likes him
he’s good with me
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on
May 29, 2008 11:51 AM CDT
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gag
MJ liked Sam Vincent too.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:02 PM CDT
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And that one waitress
who claimed paternity, and whom he sued for blackmail.
Oh, did I say ONE waitress? My bad…
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
May 29, 2008 1:40 PM CDT
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MJ knows jackshit
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:04 PM CDT
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you mean
“blackjack”
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:05 PM CDT
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Is there a way to listen to Chad Ford (starting in 1 minute)
without being an Insider?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 11:58 AM CDT
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Sure, download it from iTunes
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 12:00 PM CDT
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he's doing a chat
you can view it while it’s live. You need to be insider to read it after it’s archived.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:03 PM CDT
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Ugh listening to Waddle and Silvy
Some of these callers are just so dumb. Who are they pining for? Avery freaking Johnson. Seriously, if you don’t want Collins, at least suggest a viable alternatie. I am happy with this decision. We couldn’t get Carlisle or D’Antoni, so we are left with scraps, and that’s just the way it went. Collins has turned down several lucrative front office gigs, so this #1 pick obviously is very important to him. That also means he has a belief that drafting one more player will put this team back into immediate playoff contention.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:00 PM CDT
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I would've really liked Carlisle
and his proposed army of assistants. In retrospect.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:04 PM CDT
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Indeed
Who knows how strong the assistants will be now? Doug will no doubt be leery of the next Phil Jackson coming along, usurping his job.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:05 PM CDT
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leery?
he should expect it. This is if Pax has such vision and willingness to ‘meddle’....but it looks like ‘succession plan’ is going to be the, er, plan.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:06 PM CDT
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I would love if Pax got some under the radar assistant to join the squad
And basically used Collins as a tutor.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:07 PM CDT
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This is what it sounds like
- that Collins is coming in with an understanding that it’ll be 2-3 year project to help get the Bulls back to the cresp of contending. I could be horribly wrong here, but from everything I’ve read (in the last 10 minutes, of course), this seems like what’s going on.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on
May 29, 2008 1:46 PM CDT
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I just saw this on ESPN
WOW
Shock indeed.
But I’m hella happy.
I wanted a name coach.
by Option27 on
May 29, 2008 12:01 PM CDT
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all coaches have names...
Otherwise it would be awkward when talking about them on TV or radio…
“Coach ____ is really fired up!”
Step 1 - Win lottery. Step 2 - Hire a coach. Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on
May 29, 2008 12:26 PM CDT
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That's exactly what should've happened
in the second half of last year. May no man speak of him again.
by YaoPau on
May 29, 2008 12:36 PM CDT
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pace of the league?
Where is everyone getting the historic team pace stats? I’m just curious how much lower Collins’ teams were than the league / conference / division mean.
Like many of you, I do see the slow pace history as probably the most damning bit of Collins offensive philosophy. But until I hear a team goal / identity statement from him and see a few months of next season, I’m just not convinced that he won’t have a different offensive identity than he did in previous coaching positions. I think he’s been too involved in the past decade of NBA basketball (admittedly mostly as a commentator) to not see advantages to a faster pace game with the changes to how the perimeter is officiated. We’ll see…
by micah on
May 29, 2008 12:07 PM CDT
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basketball-reference.com is my preferred site
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 12:10 PM CDT
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I think any reference to pace
was in team rank, not the pace factor.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:11 PM CDT
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Chat with Chad Ford
” Chat with Chad Ford
Welcome to The Show! On Thursday, ESPN NBA Insider Chad Ford will drop by to talk some NBA hoops.
Ford covers the NBA and NBA Draft for ESPN Insider and also makes appearances on ESPN Radio and ESPNEWS.
Send your questions to Chad now and join him right here in The Show on Thursday at 1 p.m. ET!
Ford Archive: Chats | Columns
Chad Ford: (1:01 PM ET ) Aloha everyone. I'm in Orlando at NBA pre-draft camp. The camp is so-so, but the rumors -- with every executive in the league here are running rampant. Let's roll ...
—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-
Ryan, Chicago: Doug Collins in Chicago, is this a good fit?
Chad Ford: (1:04 PM ET ) I think so. He is one of the best teachers in the game. He's very passionate. He has a ton of experience and he's a big name in Chicago. He also has John Paxson's trust. After getting killed for messing up the Mike D'Antoni hire, I think this was the Bulls next best option. Collins will only be able to handle the stress for a couple of years if history plays out. But that gives the Bulls time to have him possibly groom a young successor.
—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-
Alex (Chicago): With the Bulls hiring Doug Collins, I would love to see them bring in Jeff Hornacek as the top assistant and take over for Collins in 2-3 years. Is Paxson thinking about doing something like this?
Chad Ford: (1:05 PM ET ) I think so Alex. I think one of the reasons he interviewed so many young coaches was to start looking for a young guy who they could groom. I'd have Hornacek at the top of my list too. From everyone I speak with they think he'll be a great head coach someday"
Chris (dallas): Does this signal a rebuilding mode for the Bulls or win on the fly?
Chad Ford: (1:08 PM ET ) I think it means that Paxson believes that with the right coach, his young guys can win. He's adding a valuable No. 1 pick. He wants a good teacher who will help them learn to win again. I think this signals that the Bulls feel they can get right back in the mix.
—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-
Nick (Chicago): How does Doug Collins affect the Bulls draft? “
by gman2849 on
May 29, 2008 12:09 PM CDT
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I know this is a pain (honestly)
to avoid that weird import ‘feature’, copy/paste the text in notepad to remove the formatting, before posting in the comment box.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:12 PM CDT
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Just seeing if this affects me.
In response to Nicks question:
SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:10 PM ET ) Too early to tell. I believe John Paxson when he says that the Bulls haven’t made up their mind and that they’ll spend the next month doing their homework. That homework includes listening to trade offers, background checks, video review and even exploring what they could get for a guy like Kirk Hinrich in a trade. All of that will factor into the decision. I’m sure they’ll seek Collins’ opinion but I’m not sure how the Bulls can go wrong with this pick. Both players fit a need and both look to be stars.
by tyger1147 on
May 29, 2008 12:14 PM CDT
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that and
use the Preview button…which is actually a pretty cool feature. It has saved me from posting some formatting nightmares (wish it did the same for content, lol)
by NormVanBeer on
May 29, 2008 12:15 PM CDT
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Just use the blockquote dealie
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:15 PM CDT
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Regarding Collins' pace
The last time Collins coached was in 2003….the NBA was not particularly up-tempo at the time (Dallas and Sacramento and NJ probably the only “fast-paced” offenses in the league at the time). He also had a horribly shitty roster that was best suited for half-court play (Stack and MJ
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:15 PM CDT
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That's why I've only referenced his teams' ranking
If you play in a fast league, that will affect your Pace numbers. The 88-89 Bulls had a Pace Factor of 97, which ranked 23rd of 25 teams. That Pace would have been fourth fastest in the NBA this year. His teams maintained low rankings in Pace even as the rest of the NBA slowed down through the 90’s, so it’s not likely that 97 possessions per game was a pace he was comfortable with.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 12:22 PM CDT
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I hate this hire
They might as well have just kept Skiles around if they wanted a disciplinarian who all the players will tire of within two years. After all, at least Skiles has has had some level of success in the past decade. Avery Johnson would have fit that description too. Does anyone actually think that Collins would have been the choice if it wasn’t for the fact that he used to coach the Bulls?
by Big D on
May 29, 2008 12:18 PM CDT
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Collins isn't a "disciplinarian"
Avery Johnson is a buffoon. If he couldn’t succeed with superstar talent and an owner who doesn’t know the value of a dollar, what the hell was he supposed to do here, yell a lot and have Chicagoans misconstrue that as “fire and passion?”
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:20 PM CDT
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Absolutely agree on Avery...
except I might replace “yell a lot” with “spew fire and brimstone.”
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 12:27 PM CDT
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And hawk Nissans
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:29 PM CDT
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I'm not a big Avery fan, but
he did pretty well with a less than spectacular team. In ‘06, with a core of Dirk, Terry, Josh Howard, Stackhouse, Marquis Daniels, Devin Harris, Keith Van Horn, and Erick Dampier, he knocked off the Spurs and Suns on the way to the Finals. That team had no business beating Duncan/Parker/Ginobili.
by YaoPau on
May 29, 2008 12:50 PM CDT
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Yes it did
In 2006 Tim Duncan had horrible plantar fascitis, had one of the worst seasons of his career. Even with a hobbled Duncan, the Spurs were able to go 7 games, and would have won had Ginobili not committed one of the stupidest fouls ever on Dirk at the end of that game. Then, they were able to face the Amare-less Suns, and were able to use Dampier and Diop to their fullest value against a team that was using Boris Diaw as a center.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:54 PM CDT
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that was a really good team
What the hell? Dirk was really, really good, and Terry/Howard had 48 WS between them.
by hscs on
May 29, 2008 12:56 PM CDT
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I guess we differ on the supporting cast
but to me, Dirk/Howard/Terry is a few steps below Duncan/Parker/Ginobili or Nash/Marion/Stoudemire. Stack has been Jannero Pargo for the past ten years, Marquis Daniels is the 8th man in Indiana now, and Keith Van Horn is what he is.
Responding to Ozzie now too, I forgot about Duncan’s plantar fascitis (also, Amare missed the playoffs with the microfracture), so maybe the road was paved for the Mavs that year… but I can’t agree they were the deepest team in the league when outside their top five you had Stack, Van Horn, Daniels, Griffin, and Diop.
Compare that to two years earlier when Dallas had a team of Dirk, Nash, Jamison, Finley, Josh Howard, Walker, Daniels, Fortson, and Najera. Imagine D’Antoni with that team. Now imagine Boylan.
by YaoPau on
May 30, 2008 12:44 AM CDT
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I'm not basing my opinion on cliche and hyperbole
The Mavs had good players, a good record, and a good point differential. According to SRS, they were the 3rd best team in the NBA that year, and the 2nd best the next. You can’t give them the short end of the stick just because Keith Van Horn strapped on his tall socks for them.
by hscs on
May 30, 2008 9:02 AM CDT
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And that less than spectacular team
Was the exact same roster that won 67 games the next year! I think some would argue in that 2 year stretch Dallas had the deepest team in the league, except a fully healthy Spurs or Suns squad.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 1:00 PM CDT
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I would replace spew
with “squeal”.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on
May 29, 2008 6:14 PM CDT
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Then what is Collins?
Actually, you’re right. Constantly ripping your players in the press (like he did in Washington) isn’t really the mark of a disciplinarian, it’s just stupid.
by Big D on
May 29, 2008 12:37 PM CDT
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Who are we?
New coach, new broadcasters, new players, 1st pick are the bulls still playing in Chicago?
by Juiceboxjerry on
May 29, 2008 12:21 PM CDT
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Totally new identity
I know who are we? But hey, we definitely are alot better than last year. We need to head in a completely new direction.
Remember the coach is not the big concern for this team. As long as the deal to Collins is short, a maximum of three years, that is fine. It is about getting a star (Derrik Rose), a leader (Derrik Rose), and a new attitude (Derrik Rose). Looks like Rose is the man.
On Wisconsin!
by Looney_Bucky on
May 29, 2008 12:24 PM CDT
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Doug Collins stats for pace, offensive and defensive rating for all tenures
86-87: Last in pace factor, 12th offensive rating, 11th defensive rating
87-88: Pace Factor: 95.5 (23rd of 23)
Offensive Rating: 109.0 (9th of 23) / Defensive Rating: 105.5 (3rd of 23)
88-89: Pace Factor: 97.0 (23rd of 25)
Offensive Rating: 109.1 (12th of 25) / Defensive Rating: 107.7 (11th of 25)
95-96: Pace Factor: 87.7 (28th of 29)
Offensive Rating: 107.9 (15th of 29) / Defensive Rating: 105.1 (7th of 29)
96-97: Pace Factor: 84.5 (28th of 29)
Offensive Rating: 110.6 (5th of 29) / Defensive Rating: 104.4 (11th of 29)
97-98: Pace Factor: 88.2 (24th of 29)
Offensive Rating: 105.3 (13th of 29) / Defensive Rating: 103.5 (9th of 29) (Fired halfway through)
01-02: Pace Factor: 88.3 (27th of 29)
Offensive Rating: 104.8 (12th of 29) / Defensive Rating: 106.4 (21st of 29)
02-03: Pace Factor: 88.2 (26th of 29)
Offensive Rating: 103.0 (21st of 29) / Defensive Rating: 104.1 (18th of 29)
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT
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Eggads I do not like that pace
But, he’s never had a real PG to push the tempo in his coaching years except for Grant Hill. Also, the game was much more half-court oriented in the late 90s.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:28 PM CDT
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The consistency of those Pace Factor ratings...
...are damnable offenses, given the makeup of the current team.
This question simply HAS to be one of the first that is asked of him during his introductory press conference.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on
May 29, 2008 1:49 PM CDT
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The pace factor
isn’t going to help us increase present roster player values.
Maybe Coach Doug Collins as a blonde is more willing to let the good times roll.
by NBA Observer on
May 29, 2008 2:05 PM CDT
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I think it's a part of the whole concept of being a "teacher"
The only way for Collins to “teach” his players offense is by slowing everything down and scripting every offensive possession. It can be difficult to understand that allowing your players to make some mistakes and play freely on occasion – while pushing the tempo and getting natural high-percentage shots as a result – is actually a better option for your team.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on
May 29, 2008 2:09 PM CDT
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47% of all statistics are false.
Chicago Bulls:
86-87: Last in pace factor, 12th offensive rating, 11th defensive rating
87-88: Pace Factor: 95.5 (23rd of 23)
Offensive Rating: 109.0 (9th of 23) / Defensive Rating: 105.5 (3rd of 23)
88-89: Pace Factor: 97.0 (23rd of 25)
Offensive Rating: 109.1 (12th of 25) / Defensive Rating: 107.7 (11th of 25)
World Champions:
Detroit Pistons:
88-89: Pace Factor: 95.5 (25th of 25)
89-90: Pace Factor: 94.4 (26th of 27)
Chicago Bulls:
90-91: Pace Factor: 95.6 (19th of 27)
91-92: Pace Factor: 94.4 (22nd of 27)
92-93: Pace Factor: 92.5 (27th of 27)
Other than the 2001-2 Lakers (6th) and 94-95 Rockets (10th), I couldn’t find any other NBA champs since the 80s Showtime Lakers that were even in the top ten in Pace Factor. I don’t think that Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Tyrus Thomas, or any other Bull will have a problem playing at any speed, as long as it’s the speed of winning.
by BullsFanInSeattle on
May 29, 2008 10:47 PM CDT
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Bravo
If that’s really the case, that none of the champions were in the top 10, that’s pretty damn meaningful. How many of them were in the bottom 3 or 4, however, as Collins’ teams were on a consistent basis?
Also – expanding the sample size from just NBA Champions – what about the top-5 teams each year? What you’ve presented is really valuable and it informs the discussion, but I would need many more data points prior to reaching a final conclusion.
I mean – excluding the Showtime Lakers and the Heat, no team since the ‘80s that didn’t have Isaiah, Jordan, Olajuwan, Shaq, or Tim Duncan have won the championship either.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on
May 30, 2008 1:40 AM CDT
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Second that bravo
I don’t think pace translates automatically into GOOD fast basketball, nor vice versa. Noc launching a quick three is going to increase the pace. Inability to slow down the other guys will do the same, as will poor rebounding. Everyone wants some low post scoring; that involves some obvious pace slowing strategies. Personally, I’ll just be happy to see them score more points than the other team, regardless of the pace.
by California Al on
May 30, 2008 1:57 AM CDT
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And I think the thing is with this team
is that we’re only able to muster halfway decent offensive efficiency when we do push the tempo when the opportunity arises. Over the last couple of years – especially this year – we’ve struggled offensively and have needed the high-percentage possessions that are created when the ball is pushed up-court. Remove those opportunities, and how shitty will the offense be?
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on
May 30, 2008 2:14 AM CDT
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Good point
But didn’t you see a lot of the offense break down due to the total dischord on the team. I was glad to see someone else pick up on my observation about Noah and the pick plays. He executed his job perfectly and slid down the paint wide open, only to have Kirk look off him and dribble into a bad shot. What in the hell is that? Why run a p&r if the ballhandler is ignoring what happens on the roll? TT is told to slide across the baseline and he drifts out to the wing. Etc, etc. I think Collins has had an excellent view of the league’s recent evolution and will have evolved somewhat himself. If the players can all get on the same page, I think they’re a better lineup than the 49 win team from 2 years ago. There’s a time to press your opportunity, and a time to bring it back out and set up. And that sad part is, I KNOW they know the difference and didn’t give a crap this year.
by California Al on
May 30, 2008 2:49 AM CDT
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no one was cherry-picking pace
The point was Doug Collins runs a mediocre offense with a slow pace (not an efficient one like the Spurs), and the Bulls don’t have the personnel to play halfcourt sets for 48 minutes.
by hscs on
May 30, 2008 8:55 AM CDT
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Paxson was a player when Collins coached the Bulls 1986-89
He knows first hand how Collins coaches and believes this fits with our players. Paxson is adding an assistant he believes is good head coaching material. I continue to believe this is a good move.
by chgobr on
May 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT
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Do we have an MJ?
Because Doug Collins was running the “give Michael the ball” offense.
Pax loved MJ too. All he had to do was catch a pass and shoot it. The two offensive things Paxson could do as a player. Oh, and make free throws.
by NBA Observer on
May 29, 2008 12:34 PM CDT
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not another MJ...
but I keep seeing stuff about Rose being the best athlete ever at his position. That’s a pretty good start, I’d say.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 12:38 PM CDT
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What do you think?
Collins is hired. Rose is drafted. The offense is give the ball to Rose. What will happen to the rest of the roster?
by NBA Observer on
May 29, 2008 1:13 PM CDT
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Feed off Rose or die
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 1:15 PM CDT
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Damn
Usually you’re so much better than this. If you didn’t notice, Phil ran the “run my triangle for 16 seconds and then give give it to Michael” offense. That’s the whole value of the superduper star. Gotta go with chgobr on this one. (sorry, chgobr, I parroted your thoughts below; guess I missed them the first time through the thread)
by California Al on
May 30, 2008 3:06 AM CDT
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LOL!
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
May 30, 2008 12:15 PM CDT
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Drop some names please
Also from KC…
One of the many younger coaches Paxson also has interviewed is expected to land on Collins’ staff.
Hopefully Brian Shaw.
by NBA Observer on
May 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT
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Or Doug Collins' son...an assistant at Duke
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:33 PM CDT
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a little frightening, but that was my first thought, too
a little Chicago/Collins dynasty brewing
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 12:34 PM CDT
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God, there's so much to hate about this hiring
But, I’m also happy this hullabaloo is over. Now we can spend the next month destroying the credibility of Rose and Beasley :)
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:35 PM CDT
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Oh and any other potential head coach candidate as "worse than Doug"
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:36 PM CDT
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All in the Family
Maybe now we’re on the fast track to eventually draft Jon Scheyer and many more of the merry men from Duke.
by NBA Observer on
May 29, 2008 12:36 PM CDT
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Chicago guy!
I feel resonated.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:50 PM CDT
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God no.
How about hiring quality, not nepotism.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."
by californiachicagoan on
May 29, 2008 3:26 PM CDT
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Chad Fords latest chat mentions Hornacek
Alex (Chicago): With the Bulls hiring Doug Collins, I would love to see them bring in Jeff Hornacek as the top assistant and take over for Collins in 2-3 years. Is Paxson thinking about doing something like this?
SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:05 PM ET ) I think so Alex. I think one of the reasons he interviewed so many young coaches was to start looking for a young guy who they could groom. I’d have Hornacek at the top of my list too. From everyone I speak with they think he’ll be a great head coach someday.
Lil' Jon, he always tells the truth.
by upther on
May 29, 2008 12:39 PM CDT
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The Chicago Bulls...
where white shooting guards go when their playing career is over.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 12:40 PM CDT
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Like Kirk H.?
Oh wait, he’s a combo guard.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
May 29, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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Remember how he handled
by Option27 on
May 29, 2008 12:36 PM CDT
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Has anyone handled Kwame Brown well?
Kwame can hardly handle a basketball.
by NBA Observer on
May 29, 2008 12:37 PM CDT
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Phil did the best at it
unsurprising.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
May 29, 2008 12:51 PM CDT
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he handled?
Wasn’t that a lot of MJ handling? It was MJ who had Kwame move into his house in DC.
by KT on
May 29, 2008 12:38 PM CDT
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What did he do?
I seem to recall that MJ destroyed that kid’s mind. That Washington stint was not a good situation at all, and when looking as Collins as a coach, I don’t think we should put too much stock into what happened there.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:38 PM CDT
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Chad Ford does
Tim, Phx: Collins did quite a number on the other #1 pick he had several years ago. Your thoughts?SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:23 PM ET ) This is a good point. He and MJ tortured Kwame Brown and ruined him for life. Hopefully he’s learned his lesson. That is a scary thought.
Question is, w/out MJ, Wallace, or Griffin around, who’s going to help Dougie team up on Tyrus?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
May 29, 2008 12:38 PM CDT
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Exactly
I think it was him and MJ.
14.3 mpg
22.2 mpg
He really didn’t play Kwame much either which really scares me
by Option27 on
May 29, 2008 12:41 PM CDT
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he also didn't play Will Perdue
but you can take that with a grain of salt. ;-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
May 29, 2008 12:42 PM CDT
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Kwame did suck
Tyrus is actually good when they give him minutes…and he was instrumental on a team that went to the playoffs. Even Collins’ master Phil Jackson couldn’t turn Kwame Brown around, the guy was a lost cause.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:43 PM CDT
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I thought I read somewhere
that he’s expected to be out of the league entirely next year.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 12:44 PM CDT
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But maybe
Doug and MJ burned him so much, he just was never able to recover?
by Option27 on
May 29, 2008 12:44 PM CDT
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The problem with drafting high school kids
is that you really have to be able to…extrapolate. You have such a small body of work to evaluate that you end up overweighting the physical—which Kwame certainly had.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
May 29, 2008 12:47 PM CDT
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The Wizards certainly underrated the whole maturity factor
He was built for the NBA, but he just didn’t have the desire, nor did he give a shit at all about conditioning his body for the rigors of a full NBA season. His teammates often marveled at how physically imposing he was, yet he could barely sprint up and down the floor.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:49 PM CDT
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So what does that tell you about him?
No NBA team would have coddled him the way he needed to be, he was doomed. Yes, it was unfair how MJ treated him (I need to go back to that book to see how Doug treated him), but if he couldn’t make it there, or under a much happier regime under Eddie Jordan (remember the stomach ache in the playoffs), or under master motivator Phil Jackson…I just don’t think it was in the cards for him.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:48 PM CDT
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That is typical Paxson
They have reached an agreement I’m sure
by Option27 on
May 29, 2008 1:12 PM CDT
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Does Doug
Have any good history with big men?
I’m not too sure Tyrus or Joakim can flourish under him.
by Option27 on
May 29, 2008 12:50 PM CDT
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Um, Horace Grant?
I dunno, he really hasn’t had many big men to work with. Detroit had Theo Ratliff, Otis Thorpe, and Rick Mahorn as their big men during his time. Doug has had success working with MJ and Grant Hill, I really hope the Bulls take Rose and Collins can figure a way out for him to be most effective.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 29, 2008 12:58 PM CDT
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I remember early last season when the Bulls had the usual poor start Doug Collins saying
that they may not be able to recover, despite doing so the previous couple of years. He proved to be right-on. He picked up something that was ominous. I’ve always thought his TV announcer game perceptions were as good as anyone. How that translates into a return to coaching will begin to unfold in November.


