Blog a Bull: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Manufactured debate

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on

Well, I'm almost already sick of draft talk. And it's not until June 26th.

First we had Sam's bad day , though that was more due to his evaluation of the current roster.

Today there's the likes of Mariotti saying the Bulls have to find a coach first (whoever it is, I guarantee the pick will be here longer). Then Mariotti's dark apprentice giving a half-assed effort to create a contrarian view.

And finally these back-to-back nuggets of wisdom from Barry Rozner:

Maybe the best move is to deal the pick and get three from New Jersey (10, 21, 40), rebuilding the team and finding a star in a trade, but that kind of radical thinking doesn't seem possible given Paxson's deliberate nature.

All this might be easier if the Bulls had a coach in place, and it wouldn't be as crazy as you think to steal John Calipari from Memphis, since he understands Rose and would certainly know how to employ him.

Not sure how those rank compared to KC Johnson throwing out the idea of dealing the pick for Baron Davis .

Only 31 days to go. I realize the benefit to not showing your hand, but Pax could think of it as doing us a service, keeping us from reading such 'advice'.

 

0 recs | Comment 207 comments

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

Wow,

that’s a whole lot of crap coming from veteran NBA writers.

I guess most people really have been taken by surprise by the Bulls’ luck. Gotta write something about it, gotta write something, anything.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on May 22, 2008 8:36 AM CDT   0 recs

It's only advice

if you listen to it. :-)

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on May 22, 2008 8:43 AM CDT   0 recs

And is Rozner a football beat writer or something

who trades down in the NBA for more picks?

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on May 22, 2008 8:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think he's a general 'columnist'

which likely means he doesn’t watch the NBA, except when its to review tapes of fights.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 22, 2008 9:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I always thought

the Bulls should trade Tyrus Thomas and their 2nd round pick to the Supersonics to move up in the 2nd round… but that kind of radical thinking doesn’t seem possible given Paxson’s deliberate nature.

by YaoPau on May 22, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He's a baseball guy

And he should probably stick to writing about it.

by Big D on May 22, 2008 11:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

its an "are you kidding me" advice

i mean that’s the most lame advice i’d ever give to pax.

are you gonna rebuild this team with the # 10 21 40 picks?

who would they pick?kwame browns?

by Aiafati on May 22, 2008 11:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"hey Jerry, it's not a lie ...

...if you believe it.”

Rose '08

by Orange Juice on May 22, 2008 1:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Isn't the #1 a certified star already?

With a certificate and everything. Or the local dunces could write something complimentary about a basketball player not named Diener, Scheyer, or Nocioni for a change.

by hscs on May 22, 2008 9:01 AM CDT   0 recs

If only Paxson cared about us.

Save us from the insanity, John. Save us from the insanity!

Pishaw. As if.

by tyger1147 on May 22, 2008 9:09 AM CDT   0 recs

KC wants to trade the pick for Baron Davis?

yikes. that’s simply stupefying in its absurdity.

by Orlando Woolridge on May 22, 2008 9:20 AM CDT   0 recs

he did an online chat for the trib yesterday

when he mentioned one of the possible things Pax could do is trade for Jermaine O’Neal.

by KT on May 22, 2008 9:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe its these blogs-

These blogs are informative, interesting, state good ideas. The writers read these, and probably feel like they have to say something “smarter”, “more informed” than what’s here, because hey, they ride the team bus.

Luckily Johnny boy reads these too. Wouldn’t you, if you were him?

by iBurkey on May 22, 2008 9:40 AM CDT   0 recs

There's no way I'd trade Beasley for Aldridge

Both are poor defenders, but at least Beasley will be a plus rebounder. I do like Aldridge’s length, but unless Beasley measures out at 6’7” or something (talking about effective height, not actual floor-to-noggin), I’d rather have Beasley.

I’d probably rather have Rose than either of them. Trading the #1 for Aldridge straight-up doesn’t make any damn sense.

by Jivas on May 22, 2008 10:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Aldridge's length doesn't do him much good

He’s a crappy rebounder and defender. The jumpshot gets off just fine, but so does Mikki Moore’s.

by hscs on May 22, 2008 10:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed - I'm no lover of LMA's overall game...

...but I do think that his length provides him with a marginal advantage defensively over Beasley, in that he will be able to defend/alter a few more shots than Beasley, even given his poor defensive effort.

by Jivas on May 22, 2008 10:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Beasley's athleticism and strentgh give him just as much of a similar advantage.

And the athleticism (and the fact he’s finishing his 1st year out of high school compared to Aldridge’s fourth) means there’s at least a chance for defensive upside.

by tyger1147 on May 22, 2008 10:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Then what's KC Johnson's excuse?

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on May 22, 2008 10:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeesh

I like Blazers Edge, but that thread is a whole lot of crazy.

How did the Bulls ‘miss’ on Aldridge, and who’s that upset about it?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 22, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You would absolutely trade a potential franchise PG

For a guy who, at best will be the 3rd best player on that team. If there’s anything we need, it’s another guy who can shoot 15 foot jumpers, NOT a dominating inside/out presence or a PG with incredible athleticism.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on May 22, 2008 10:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

the goofiest part, and it's tough to be goofier than Aldridge for the #1,

or that Aldridge has the potential to be Kevin Garnett, is the sentiment in the comments that Pritchard needs to be tied up in a room with no phones so he doesn’t trade Aldridge for the #1. Nothing wrong with being a homer, but there have been some bizarre things coming out of the main hubs of Blazer fandom the past few years.

by hscs on May 22, 2008 11:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

they do seem more tightly-knit with 'their guys'

than other fandoms. Likely the ‘one-sport town’ thing.

I do think Aldridge is a good enough compliment to Oden that you can say it’s not worth messing up, assuming that a deal for #1 is lunacy anyway.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 22, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I was struck by Mortimer's mother hen act yesterday

Perhaps the warm embrace is what keeps them all talking funny in unison.

by paxson43 on May 22, 2008 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Either that, or

all the “greenery” in Portland. Like the kind of greenery that it’s illegal to grow.

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on May 22, 2008 12:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ding

we have a winner

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on May 22, 2008 12:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you are right on

Blazers fans tend to feel more attached to their guys and thus overrated them. This isn’t the first example. The question of who’s better- Roy or CP3 was very much on the table on BlazersEdge most of the year, and most people were calling me out for saying CP3 had him beat by a mile. The playoffs have changed people’s opinions some, but plenty of Edgers would still take Roy over Paul.

The Edgers are an awesome community that I love being a part of—they are just devoted to their guys more than most.

I do think you guys are underrating Aldridge. He’s a dynamite offensive player who’s also a very solid defender. His post game (which has come a long way) and rebounding need plenty of work, but he’s right on track to be a regular all-star. Look at his post- all star break splits. He’s going to be a 20/8 guy sooner rather than later.

No matter what the Edge says though, that’s not nearly worth giving up the chance to draft Rose or Beasley.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 22, 2008 11:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lol my favorite is

“No way do we give up Aldridge. I think Chicago might trade the number 1 pick without giving up one of our big 3. we have lots of great pieces I also think Reafs expiring contract is attractive to them.

I could see a deal of Rudy Fernandez for Rose. Rudy would get more playing time in Chicago and he would have been hands down the 3rd pick in this years draft. I think Rose would fit on our team rerally well. think about Rose in the Rose Garden.”

RUDY FERNANDEZ?

by Jaina on May 22, 2008 3:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wow

That is really bad. I guess now you know how some of you guys probably sound to fans of other teams when you talk about Thabo and Tyrus.

by rb22 on May 22, 2008 3:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's like

oh, oh! i know! they’ll take rudy, who plays the same position but is clearly inferior!

what a great trade!!!

by Jaina on May 22, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

caught it in my wild Aldridge statements net already

I don’t have the energy to blog about that guy. I can’t believe the Oregonian actually allows that much cheerleading. Sean still can’t beat my favorite Blazer’s Edge comment, “I would even be hesitant to trade Aldridge for Greg Oden”.

by hscs on May 22, 2008 3:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pretty much everybody but a few here.

I’d like to make up statistics and say that 90% of national writers, 98% of local writers, 95% of casual NBA fans, 80% of Bulls fans and all of the Bulls front office think drafting Tyrus Thomas instead of Aldridge was a HUGE mistake.

There’s been a lot of writing that drafting Beasley would help make up for the disastrous mistake of drafting Thomas.

by tyger1147 on May 22, 2008 11:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm glad I could create an insular bubble

of Tyrus love.

Me and David Thorpe to the end.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 22, 2008 11:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

why...

is everyone giving up on Tyrus Thomas? He’ll be 22 when next season starts, and never got consistent playing time under Skiles. He has shown flashes of brilliance, and his mid range jumper has improved to the point where defenses will think twice before leaving him wide open for the 15 footer. The lack of a consistent rotation has hurt the development of Ty, and Sefolosha as well, but lets wait before calling drafting Thomas a disaster.

by MyJalenRoseJerseyMattersAgain on May 23, 2008 1:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

There is no reason to give up on Tyrus

until you see how he plays with Rose. And Portland can keep LMA, we have enough soft players who prefer to stay clean on the perimter. LMA is a nice player, but he can keep his game in Portland where they can afford him to be soft.

by messwiththebull on May 23, 2008 1:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They really overvalue the guy

soft, can kinda score, no D, no rebounding. Tyrus hasn’t been great – yet – but I’ll take a pass on LMA as someone to “build around.”

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on May 22, 2008 12:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"How did the Bulls ‘miss’ on Aldridge, and who’s that upset about it?"

from what i can gather, it’s the Blazers announcing crew and Screamin’ A. Smith.

by Orlando Woolridge on May 22, 2008 7:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting info on measurements from the article

“Last year at the Nike Hoop Summit [Beasley] measured 6-foot-9 in shoes, with a 7-foot wingspan and a 9-foot-1 standing reach. While those aren’t terrific measurements for the 4 position, they aren’t terrible either. (By the way, Rose measured 6-foot-3½ in shoes with a 6-foot-7 wingspan at the same event).”

As a point of reference, Tyrus measured 6’ 8.25” in shoes, with a 7’ 3” wingspan and a 9’ standing reach (from DraftExpress). If those Beasley measurements are accurate – if his standing reach is a full inch longer than TT’s – this answers one significant question about him, and complicates the decision just a little in my mind.

by Jivas on May 22, 2008 10:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Really? Why? Who stands flat-footed reaching up in the NBA?

As quick and athletic as Beasley is, Thomas is more so. While there is obviously a potential for that to make a difference, it’s insubstantial. What about Thomas’s longer wingspan which will help with better passing, better defending the passing lanes, better defending someone dribbling by, etc. etc.

by tyger1147 on May 22, 2008 10:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm TT's biggest booster...

This wasn’t meant to be a Beasley-versus-TT thing. It was simply to point out that one of (the only?) question mark on Beasley was whether on his measurables and whether he’d have the size to play power forward in the NBA, and this information (if accurate) may help to answer that question.

by Jivas on May 22, 2008 10:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, um... yeah.

Measurements would help settle the measurement question.

by tyger1147 on May 22, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it makes Boylan's insistence on plugging TT into the "3" look silly...

...but I’m not sure it’s that meaningful of an indicator for his future development, other than indicating that he clearly has legitimate size to play PF in the NBA.

by Jivas on May 22, 2008 12:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The point is that standing reach is a *MUCH* better indicator than height

Height is the distance from the floor to the top of your head – who makes basketball plays with the top of their head?

by Jivas on May 22, 2008 12:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Calipari would have us believe Rose makes them

with his chin.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on May 22, 2008 12:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"who makes basketball plays with the top of their head?"

Andres Nocioni. Why are all the exceptions to common sense in Chicago?

by hscs on May 22, 2008 12:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Great article a couple of years ago from 82games.com

http://www.82games.com/trueheight.htm

This is what I meant when I referred to “effective” height earlier in the thread – it’s true that players don’t make basketball plays reaching up flat-footed (except Aaron Gray) and players don’t make baskeball plays with the top of their head (except Chapu), and this analysis does a good job combining all measurement information to determine a player’s “True” or “effective” height.

The only real question I have with Beasley’s game is whether he has the size to be a full-time PF in the NBA. I’m looking forward to seeing more reliable measurables.

by Jivas on May 22, 2008 12:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

nice

That just found a place in my “favorites—basketball.” Thanks.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on May 22, 2008 12:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think his college rebounding numbers are a good indicator of 4-ishness

It would be great if someone could dig up Hollinger’s college rebounding translates well to the NBA piece from last summer.

by hscs on May 22, 2008 12:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Rebound rate has been found to be VERY static from level-to-level...

...but I’m not aware of a specific study that’s been published on the topic. Certainly, I have little worry about Beasley’s ability to average 10 rebounds per game in the NBA.

Here’s Hollinger’s article on forecasting college players to the NBA ($):

http://www.82games.com/trueheight.htm

by Jivas on May 22, 2008 12:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks, but I'm not an Insider

I was hoping for a quick synopsis, and that’s exactly the piece I was referring to, but it seems I recalled an incorrect conclusion.

by hscs on May 22, 2008 12:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Rebounding portion...

4. Rebounds. Boards, especially offensive boards, are a good indicator of future pro success as well.

Note that it isn’t necessarily the absolute rebounds as much as the rebounds given a player’s height. Wade, for instance, has the best rebound rate in the past five years of any player 6-4 or shorter—a whopping 13.0 his sophomore year. Rajon Rondo was the best under 6-2 (11.5), and Nate Robinson was the best under six foot (8.6 his sophomore year).

The correlation isn’t quite as strong with big men, oddly enough, because you get one-dimensional types muscling in on the action (a lot of marginal players like Reggie Evans). But big men who can rebound and show some skill in other areas tend to fare very well in the pros.

The most notable rebound rate in this year’s draft belongs to an Ohio State player—just not the one you think. Daequan Cook, a 6-5 freshman, put up a whopping 12.1 mark, which is pretty incredible for a player that size.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on May 22, 2008 9:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Beasley is a 6'9" 'Chris Bosh'

Bosh was far weaker than Beasley coming out of Georgia Tech as a one and done.

I have no quarrels with drafting Beasley, so long as he’s drafted to the Bulls after they select Rose #1 overall.

Beasley will be an excellent NBA player. You’ll need to secure a strong center that can spell Beasley’s defensive lapses and provide a decent enough offensive skillset to prevent the doubles on Beasley from being two bigs and instead one big and one helping guard.

by NBA Observer on May 23, 2008 8:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Can someone explain what are Beasley's apparent character flaws?

Everytime I read an article, there’s always something about Beasley’s questionable character could cost him etc etc, but no one ever elaborates. Is he the next Marcus Fizer? I need to know!

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on May 22, 2008 10:20 AM CDT   0 recs

Five high schools in four years...

...correct? That’s not a red flag, that’s a radioactive flag.

by Jivas on May 22, 2008 10:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, because you can accurately assess a person's character by their behavoir as an adolescent

He was busted for pranks and generally acting like a goofy, teenage boy. It’s not like he was committing crimes.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 22, 2008 10:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Five years in high school...

for pranks??? I feel like I need little more info.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on May 22, 2008 10:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ohh.

That’s a horse of a different color. Why didn’t you say so in the first place?

Come right in.

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on May 22, 2008 11:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's still deviating so far from the norm that there's cause for concern

It’s not like the Beaz is far removed from those days. Normally I think character talk is lame and not important, but selecting a guy who acts like an 8 year old with the #1 pick seems risky. It’s entirely possible he’s matured and ready to be a pro; I’m not asking for a Goodwill Ambassador like Deng (who also generously employs children in Asian shoe factories).

by hscs on May 22, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn't say the character talk doesn't give me pause

Just tired of seeing it being blown way out of proportion.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 22, 2008 11:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thus all of the Derrick Coleman comparisons.

You think people didn’t know about Derrick Coleman’s maturity issues when he was drafted?

And yet there he was, a few years into his career, getting arrested for urinating into the cooking pot in the kitchen of a restaurant.

Oh, silly me! He later said it was a misunderstanding (and at other times stated a drink spilled on his pants)—nevermind all the concerns about character!

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on May 22, 2008 12:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What a prankster!

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on May 22, 2008 12:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Plus, this team has already met its quota

of public urinators for the next two seasons at least.

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on May 22, 2008 12:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't knock public urination until you've tried it

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 22, 2008 12:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs