Mock Draft Roundup
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 21, 2008 12:13 PM CDT
201 comments
Figured we should have a clearinghouse for all the mocks around the web. And a place to mock those mocks.
Luckily, it only needs to go one pick deep. Have I mentioned that the Bulls have the #1 pick??
So I'll start:
DraftExpress (note to DX: blog means permalinks): Beasley
Chicago rejuvenates their entire organization by lucking into the top pick in this year’s draft, and thus the best possible solution for their scoring woes in the post. While they will work out and certainly give Derrick Rose a long hard look, it makes way too much sense to draft Beasley and let him fit right in at the biggest hole in their lineup—the 4. This pick fixes a lot of things for Chicago’s players, front office, local media and fan-base—things don’t look all that bad any more all of a sudden.
Chad Ford : Beasley
Most general managers have Beasley ranked ahead of Rose in the talent department. Rose may have more upside and plays a critically important position, but if you ask GMs and scouts to rate guys purely on talent, Beasley comes out ahead. In fact, until Rose's excellent run in the NCAA tournament, most NBA scouts and GMs scoffed at the idea of taking anyone other than Beasley with the first pick in the draft.
The consensus the past few years has been that the Bulls will never get over the top until they get that guy who can average 20 points and 10 rebounds for them. Considering the way Beasley dominated the Big 12 this year, is there any question he's the right fit?
Well … yes. There are questions about Beasley's attitude and work ethic. Stories still swirl about his offcourt antics in high school. The Derrick Coleman comparisons don't help, either.
But at the end of the day, I think Beasley has a slight edge. The NBA executives I interviewed in Secaucus after the draft lottery mostly agreed. Of the six NBA execs I spoke with, four thought the Bulls would select Beasley. Two picked Rose.
Ridiculous Upside : Beasley
We settled on Rose at first, but just couldn't go through with it. Not with Hinrich, Gordon and Hughes in the back court. In reality, there needs to be a trade one way or another in order to justify any decision they make.
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Anybody saying Beasley
must think that Tyrus isn’t the answer at the 4. Personally, I think that our PF rotation is set with Tyrus and Gooden. We even have Noc for depth, or Deng if we want to play Nellie ball. If Tyrus remains inconsistent, we have Gooden who is good enough to start for a playoff team. Why start over developing a new insanely talented prospect when we’ve already been developing our blue chipper in Tyrus? Chad Ford notes in his article that Tyrus would be the best trade chip we have. He thinks that’s a reason to get Beasley; I think it’s the exact opposite (it’s why we should keep him).
by arjoseph on May 21, 2008 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So every mock draft and expert (except Bilas)
says we should take Beasley.
Are we missing something?
I want Rose.
by swede2287 on May 21, 2008 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
nbadraft link
Here’s a link: http://www.dcprosportsreport.com/NBAMocks.htm
They also list 70-some other mocks.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 21, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah!
well that pretty much has everything.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 21, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And FYI Draft.net
says his NBA Comparison is Dwayne Wade/Kidd. Nice.
by swede2287 on May 21, 2008 12:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Can Danny
The last few drafts, Jon Paxson has drafted athletic big men who can run the floor. Wouldn’t it make sense to finally add the point guard that can help them get going rather than adding yet another athletic big man? The Bulls core is the homegrown Rose and Deng with Ty Thomas getting one more chance. Paxson’s next move should be to look to move the rest of his rag-tag crew to build around this unit.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 21, 2008 12:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more
I think we should get a SG. Now that we now that dreams can became true, why not give hinrich, gordon, noc… and someone else for Wade.
Imagine what could be a team like
PG – Rose
SG – Wade
SF – Deng
PF – Tyrus
C – Noah
When are you going to do something good Pax?
by bull83 on May 22, 2008 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ivan Carter (Washington Post)
Rose:
Super quick point guard showed a pro player’s poise and playmaking ability as a frosh while leading the Tigers to the Final Four. Has been compared to Hornets franchise changer Chris Paul and has the first step of a Gilbert Arenas. Rose is the sensible pick despite the presence of Kirk Hinrich.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 21, 2008 12:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
TSN
on Beaseley
Sometimes compared to Denver standout Carmelo Anthony, the 6-foot-10 Beasley the Big 12 Player of the Year in his only collegiate season, was third in the nation in scoring, averaging 26.2 points per game. The forward also tore down 12.4 rebounds per contest – good for the best in the country.
and Rose
Rose, a 6-foot-3 guard, averaged 14.9 points and 4.7 assists per game in the regular season and 20.8 points in six NCAA tournament games, as the Tigers finished as national runners-up to Kansas.
by gman2849 on May 21, 2008 12:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
link and quote, link and quote
link and quote.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 21, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it a little bit scary
that the two comparisons I keep hearing for Beasley are Carmelo and Coleman. Don’t. want. them.
Plus, what’s the upside for a 6’8”/6’9” power forward? I’ve seen too many slightly-undersized PFs underproduce in the past few years (Tyrus, Shelden Williams, Kenyon Martin, Sweetney, Okafor, Fizer, Stro Swift, Kris Humphries) with just a few players overachieving (Boozer, Millsap, Maxiell).
Look at the size of the power forwards on the All-NBA first and second teams. Garnett (7’0”), Dirk (7’0”), Duncan (6’11”), Amare (6’10”). For a Beasley #1 pick to be worth it, he’ll have to be as good as these guys. Is he that much more talented than they are, that he’s able to make up a possible 4” height difference? I think it’s risky.
by YaoPau on May 21, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Van Pelt
Brought up Marcus Fizer and Rodney Rogers today, and I almost crashed my car. There’s no telling if Beasley is going to be that kind of player…..but I just wish the negative aspects about him were concerning his game, not his lack of determination or focus.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 21, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's really interesting that out of the 3 overachievers you mentioned,
two (Maxiell and Millsap) are primarily defensive forces, while the third (Boozer) was a 2nd-round pick.
Add to this the fact that Kurt Thomas, the NCAA’s leading rebounder and scorer in his last year of college, came to the league to just be average. Just goes to show that 6’9 guys aren’t all that, not even when they dominate in college, and the ones who ARE all that are primarily defensive forces.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 21, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no freaking way he is 6'10''
he’s closer to 6’7’’ / 6’8’’ with shoes
rose is a legit 6’3’’ (unlike ben gordon), pushing 6’4’’ with shoes
by Orange Juice on May 21, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is just a wonderful situation to be in
sooooo many options!!!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on May 21, 2008 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hear Kevin Love
has really slimmed down.
by arjoseph on May 21, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you would have told me the bull would have had a shot at Beasly
i would have said you’re crazy. what are the odds. i smell success for us next year.
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 21, 2008 1:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fran Frachila
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3406388&name=ncbexperts
- Beasley.
There will be some pressure on the Bulls to take the hometown hero, Derrick Rose, but with a core of good, young perimeter players, Beasley gives this team an anchor inside for the next decade. He’ll score and rebound right away and has a better feel for team basketball than people realize. He will turn into a 20-10 guy fairly quickly.
"I took a couple of bad shots," Gordon said
by BNeL21 on May 21, 2008 1:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Fraschilla's comments about Beasley...
...but not with his conclusion.
by Jivas on May 21, 2008 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what I don't get
is where this “core of good, young perimeter players” have been hiding.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 21, 2008 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frachilla
Took excited to type correctly. Disagree with the Beasley pick too if anyone cares.
"I took a couple of bad shots," Gordon said
by BNeL21 on May 21, 2008 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
call to arms
I’d like to get this thread bumped to the ‘recommended section’, and there’s no easy way to do this except to have a bunch of users recommend it. So if you could, I’d appreciate it.
-management.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 21, 2008 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Man......
I want them to pick Rose..But its hard to see what direction they will go..They pick Beasley and Tyrus would have to go….Another Crucial mistake Paxson will make…I hope to god he learned his mistakes on that Chandler trade…Rose is capable of making those other 4 guys on our lineup better….Hopefully Paxson was watching the playoffs…Deron and Paul success should influence his draft choice….....HOPEFULLY
by SK23 on May 21, 2008 2:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He is the perfect fit though
I mean I heard he was 67 or that he plays like Coleman he has a bad attitude one fellow BLOGABULLER even said he seen him drunk and he kicked a dog?....wtf. Heres one thing is he really a low post scorer or a jumpshooter. Heres an example remember Dirk when he was at his best when he played with Nash and Finley what made Dirk so good is that JAMISON would draw the doubles down low and kick out to Dirk. We cant do that. MBZLE is not bangin the blocks for 48 and his J will vanish. On our team maybe a 15 and 8 guy.
by TRiCioNeRo on May 21, 2008 2:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The comment about seeing Beasley drunk and kicking a dog was clearly a joke
Dirk was at his best after Nash, Finley, and Jamison, with whom he only played one season, left. That’s only coincidence, no causation implied.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on May 21, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
er, Dirk didn't win a ring, and won't because he thinks he can jumpshot his way there.
So best not to bring him up….
He’s like a taller melo- he takes ill advised low percentage hero shots.
by iBurkey on May 27, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read the thread?
I was responding to TRiCioNeRo’s assertion that Dirk was at his best playing with Nash, Finley, and Jamison. I’m not going to bother getting into a discussion w/ you about the values of Dirk and any perceived lack of ability to win a championship. The guy is one of the best players in the NBA, enough said.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on May 27, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some vids
http://hooptube.blogspot.com/2008/05/nba-potential-top-2008-draft-picks.html
theres other prospects on this, and of course doesnt really speak any story, but just for kicks a brief highlight video of rose, beasley, mayo, everybodys fav k-love, etc…
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 21, 2008 3:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
all those are on NBA.com in high res
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on May 21, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks didnt know
found the link on youtube so i didnt know they were anywhere else.. Thanx!
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 21, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If hes available
Devon Hardin in the second round.
by TRiCioNeRo on May 21, 2008 4:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe how many high lottery picks the Bulls have had over the years
Since 1999 – present
Two #1 picks (including this year, Brand and Beasley or Rose)
Three #2 picks (Jay Williams, Tyson Chandler, Tyrus Thomas)
One #3 pick (Ben Gordon)
Two #4 picks (Marcus Fizer, Eddy Curry)
Two #7 picks (Kirk Hinrich, Jamal Crawford)
One #9 pick (Joakim Noah)
I would be seriously frustrated as a Bulls fan if management screws this up and doesn’t pick Rose.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on May 21, 2008 6:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops forgot another player, Luol Deng at #7
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on May 21, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check the fanshots section
They got a real real good vid of Beasley, and after watching it i wouldnt mind getting beasley so long as his attitude/personality issues could somehow be resolved or ignored….
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 21, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That fanshots video doesn’t even remotely do Beasley justice.
His isn’t the kind of game that shows well in two second highlight clips. It’s not all about spectacular dunks. You need to see him maneuver through traffic, easily getting his shots off when it looked like there was nothing there.
I only saw K State a few times last season, and I came away feeling I’d never seen any college player score so effortlessly. It almost looked like he was playing against high school kids. The other team just looked helpless against him.
Then I saw Derrick Rose in the tournament…a completely different game (obviously), but just as dominant. The way he got past guys reminded me of Allen Iverson in his G’Town days.
I’m perfectly fine with either player, and I’m inclined to agree with Chad Ford, that the Bulls could get a better upgrade at point guard using Tyrus and Gooden as bait, than they could in the front line in a trade using Hinrich.
Does drafting Beasley raise the Bulls overall level more than drafting Rose? I think it very well might.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 21, 2008 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what PG could Tyrus and Gooden get you?
we’ve already more or less determined that it’s a scarce enough position that Kirk Hinrich is better than half.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 21, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know.
It might be enough to get Calderon, who a lot of people thought should have been an all-star last year. For sure it would get you TJ Ford; but is that enough of an upgrade?
And no, Lowry’s not enough of an upgrade.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 21, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Tyrus could get us back in the draft
for a shot at Bayless.
Beasley is a huge talent. There’s a reason he was consensus #1 all year.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 21, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus was a #4 pick.
Don’t forget about our good friend Viktor
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
by jpchi on May 22, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
National vs. Local discrepancy
It seems like most of the national media (including Ford, DX, and others) have us picking the still-consensus #1 guy in Beasley. But almost all of the local speculation is that the team would take Rose.
I’m sure that a small portion of that is because he’s from Chicago, but I think most of it is because the local media have a better handle of what the most logical move is for this team, and what has traditionally driven Paxson’s decision-making.
Plus, the national media didn’t have to watch Kirk Hinrich play 82 games last year.
by Jivas on May 21, 2008 7:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The three ways of looking at the argument
Draft Rose-He is a special pure pg and just look at what chris paul, steve nash, and deron williams have done!!!
Draft Beasley-He is a scoring machine, back to the basket or face up, point blank dunks or 20 foot jumpers, right hand or left, creat his own shot or be set up…it doesnt matter he will score and grab rebounds and he will do it now and later!!!
and the third argument
Draft the Best Player-Beasley or Rose, it doesnt matter what position they play or size, it matters on who will become a greater superstar and draft that player. Why is paxson looking at so many tapes??? Maybe he understands that the better of the two players is who he should have, and he doesnt want to pass that guy up for a guy the “fans” think is great.
With what you said about national and local discrepency it makes me think about that third argument, it doesnt matter who is on the bulls roster at all, it matters which of these two players is greater. The bulls roster can be changed around to fit the star, but its hard to change stars around. Pax has a huge burden on him. We can discuss what we believe are the strenghts and weaknesses of each prospect but it will be john paxson and his crew who will see what we cant see, and we are stuck with “in pax we trust” that he truly chooses the best guy. For fans it should be a win win situation, since both guys are studs (the way i explained it to my bro is that these two are the only As in the draft, and the rest are B+ and down.) but in terms of preparing for the future and winning, paxson will have to pick the one who can take alot of what this group has and go all the way.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 21, 2008 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pat Riley has
already done the scouting for us, and he wants Rose. Isn’t that enough?
I could see myself needing a vacation from B-a-B ‘til the draft. I can see everybody here is going to approach the question from every angle, when that’s not really necessary. 72% to 27% says we already know who it should be. Rose is the better leader and warrior, the safer choice, and yet has the best chance to be that “superstar” so many here have been begging for. And an unselfish one, at that.
Joakim Noah for player/coach!
by marionette on May 21, 2008 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That very well may be the ultimate conclusion,
but there is a ton of time before the draft – are you so confident in Rose that you aren’t even going to bother considering what Beasley has to offer? That sounds sort of like D’Antoni and his “gee, I had this offer from the Knicks and I didn’t want to get into comparing it with other offers” stuff. I love it here, but I’m not sure I spend time with a more knee-jerk reaction crowd in any other setting. Why would you want to make a decision in a vacuum of Beasley info?
At the very worst, taking time to compare Rose and Beasley confirms Rose is the best bet of the two. And it’s just possible that Beasley turns out to be the better fit. I get the idea from a lot of the comments that not many people have seen Beasley play. All the character stuff that I’ve ever heard is that he’s a big practical joker – nothing about having a poor work ethic or being in legal trouble.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 21, 2008 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions -1 recs
I'm not afraid of
his character. And I’ve been following them both for a year. I know the draft often comes down to luck, because you can never quantify that inner desire necessary to make the leap to the pros. Or become a superstar. So yeah, intuition is involved.
I’m just putting my opinion out there in the strongest way possible, to go on record with it (because isn’t that what this blog is half about?). Yeah, I’ve seen and heard enough.
Joakim Noah for player/coach!
by marionette on May 21, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing like making your mind up a month in advance and never wavering!
Bush would be proud you’re not a flip-flopper.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 22, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose is not a pure PG.
He’s a scoring point. I thought pures weren’t supposed to score.
by tyger1147 on May 22, 2008 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can score, but when the do so, it must be unselfishly
and make their teammates better in the process.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on May 22, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he could have scored even more at Memphis if he wanted to
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 22, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
I think we should trade the pick for Brevin Knight or Jason Williams if we can.
by arjoseph on May 22, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
My thoughts are begining to sway the more i read on beasley and the more i see of him via clips (okay fine, its not the same as watching college basketball and i get that i know jack shit of college hoops, but i still understand the game of basketball as well as any fan) Beasley has the pottential to give us a super star low post presence who can score from practicaly anywhere and carry a team with his abilities. I think the bulls have lacked those traits for a while and that is what makes alot of people think beasley is a better fit for the bulls.
Derick rose has the intangible qualities the bulls lack, a guy who wants to win at all costs, a guy who can lead vocally, ability wise, and runs the pg position which demands the ability to control the team. He can score and defend well enough to go along with his tremendous physical abilities and court vision.
What sucks is there is more theory than fact about what each player can do. I think alec said somethign that really grabbed my attention about beasley, about how he scored so easily against guys. And while watching the youtube clips i saw alot of double teams and tripple teams coming at him, which reminds me alot of kobe bryant. The way he scores effortlessly. Not to say beasley will be him, but the thought is amazing. I think a recent comparison i heard on the radio was Karl malone, wouldnt that be something?
I like derrick roses personality a whole lot better then what i hear of Beasley. Beasley seems arrogant and cocky and i fear he may be like zach randolph a bit and that would suck horribly, but we wont know all of this for awhile.
So ultimately im stuck trusting paxson to pick the best player in this draft, although for a bulls fan it seems like win win. For a hinrich fan however not so much….
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 21, 2008 8:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Worst case scenario
We can always trade of Spence Hawes or Yi… =)
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on May 22, 2008 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
Still remember that huh?
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 22, 2008 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a long argument
with both us being right and wrong. Both players sucked and the Bulls ended with a better player in Noah.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on May 22, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
I wouldn’t go as far to say Yi sucked.
He actually had a good rookie season, minus his injury
by Option27 on May 23, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yi underwhelmed.
I was as big of proponent of getting Yi as anyone last year. However, he didn’t fit the hype. If we had a redo I would propose Thornton or Noah over Yi. We have Noah and I am content with not getting Yi.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on May 23, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted Noah last year...
...and my next 2 players were Rodney Stuckey and Thaddeus Young. Nothing has changed in my mind – Noah may not have exactly the career of those other two, but he has positional value as a Center (he had the best plus/minus on the team this year, by acclimation).
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on May 23, 2008 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And now that we'll be able to take Rose
Stuckey is not needed here, as good as he is and will be.
Thad Young would have been a sweet pick, but I don’t think he’ll be that much better than Deng anyways.
by Illini15 on May 25, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
piccolomair
come on. Jamal Crawford can score effortlessly in some games when he’s hot..
Kirk will have a good NBA career, with the Bulls or not. No need to worry.
Leadership and making the other players is the intangible gift that Rose has.
I agree Beasley has swagger,talent and potential, so does Camillo Anthony. But I’d take Rose over either to build a team around given the opportunity.
Beasley’s a tweener, will have the same success in the NBA? He’ll be successful, but who do you think is really the cornerstone of the improved Utah Jazz? Boozer or Deron Williams? or New Orleans.. Paul or David West?
If you answer that question you’ll see why so many are pro-Derrick Rose.
Rose is the real deal, a very special player that you don’t pass on.
by exult463 on May 22, 2008 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go with Rose
I believe that the Bulls have to draft Rose. With the league going towards a more guard/perimeter oriented game, a point guard like Rose would help the Bulls. The game has gone away from a traditional back to basket game and the Bulls can select Rose and find a serviceable big man to go with him.
by dannym22 on May 21, 2008 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
theres a reason tim duncan
and shaq won the majority of the last ten or so championships…. and its not because they are perimeter oriientated.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 21, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed the comparison
of Beasley to Shaq and Duncan. The impression he’s not the next “them” is an argument for taking Rose.
Joakim Noah for player/coach!
by marionette on May 21, 2008 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what do I know?
Just ‘cause I remember vividly my joy when Hou took Akeem (Hakeem) and poor POR took Bowie so we could take Jordan. I say it was dumb then and it’d be even dumber now.
But there are those that would argue against me!
Joakim Noah for player/coach!
by marionette on May 21, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan plays defense
Beasley does not. Additionally, Beasley is much more perimeter oriented than Duncan, despite the youtube mixes on him. Most importantly, Beasley doesn’t play defense, and Duncan has been one of the best defensive anchors in the league.
For me, I go for Rose because I just don’t see Beasley as a complete player.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on May 21, 2008 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
I totally repeated myself in that post. disregard please. time for bed.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on May 21, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL at reading that
I think if Beasley can develop that passing effectiveness that Duncan and KG have out of the double team (to say nothing of their defense), then he would be the pick. But it seems unlikely, partly because he’s smaller.
Joakim Noah for player/coach!
by marionette on May 21, 2008 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At any rate
I gotta learn to be more clear but…i was more attacking the fact that he stated that;
1) “the league going towards a more guard/perimeter oriented game”
and
2)”The game has gone away from a traditional back to basket game “
Its not really proof of why we should get beasley, but its there to at least state that rose wont neccesserily be better then beasley just because he is a pg. Again ill say that we should get whoever the better player is regardless of the position and as a bulls fan i say regardless of who we will have to trade.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 21, 2008 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, those state of the game
statements don’t really matter to me, either.
Joakim Noah for player/coach!
by marionette on May 21, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty steep comparisions.
Shaq being one of the top 5 centers of all time and Duncan being arguably the best PF. But lets not forget that Duncan won with Parker and Shaq won with Kobe and Wade.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on May 22, 2008 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The championships won by the Spurs and Lakers were because of ...
underrated Tony Parker and Manu.
And also Kobe Bryant.
Take these players off the Spurs and the Lakers and replace them with Kirk and Gordon (going back in time) and these teams don’t win the NBA Championship during those years.
by exult463 on May 22, 2008 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
so what happens when you take away shaq and tim duncan from thier teams and leave manu parker, and kobe….do those teams win championships then?
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 22, 2008 3:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. That's the point.
It’s a team game.
by tyger1147 on May 22, 2008 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
He’s listed at 6-10. You are conveniently calling him what he probably actually is barefoot and calling the other guys by the heights they are listed. That’s inconsistent.
Everybody is probably shorter than what they are listed, but so many like you insist on calling out guys like Beasley, Love, Hansbrough and others saying how short they are if it’s convenient and helps you prove your point of how short they are for their position. Those same people will then say Derrick Rose is 6-4 or Donte Green is 6-11 in the next sentence to help prove the point of ow tall they are for their position.
Beasley is listed at 6-10 and Rose at 6-3. Use those heights until the predraft measurements come out. If Beasley measures 6-7 fine, call him 6-7 but be consistent and call Rose 6-1 or whatever he measures.
I think the Bulls should draft Rose, but most of the pro-Rose people are just so over the top. They seem to be the same ones who are overly obsessed with “height” and “length” and “upside.”
by rb22 on May 27, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More links
I sort of like this one, it compares Beasley to Rose and talks about how Rose seemed to be winning the spot of “concensus first place”. It then considers the 14 lottery bound teams and states which teams would be better off with rose and which teams would be better off with beasley and why. Note this was written about a week before the lottery, but its still got some good stuff to read about.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 22, 2008 4:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And Another Link
http://www1.naismithlives.com/node/165
this one is very much the same as the last link i posted, except it is siding with beasley being the most dominant. Good reads
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 22, 2008 4:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Very good find, Piccolomair
For me anyway, the upshot is that either player will be the best player we’ve had on our team since the Jordan years. Better than Brand, Artest, Hinrich, Gordon, Deng. And both players fill needs. I want Rose because I think he’s a better defensive player and can make others better. Specifically I think he can improve BG’s efficency by placing him in the role to which he’s best suited – shooting, NOT dribbling and creating. And Tyrus’ production could skyrocket with a fast point guard throwing lobs, finding him in transition, etc. The last thing I want to see is drafting Beasley and then just dumping T2 – the kid has too much talent, and showed a lot of progress last (this?) year, even if the numbers don’t show it. We pretty much know what Kirk is; we’ve only started to see what Tyrus can be.
The article doesn’t mention any of that. It’s point, however salient with regard to the way the Rose’s more recent successes shaped our perceptions, doesn’t touch the fact that Rose may be the better player FOR US. But good read nonetheless.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on May 22, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Though
he does bring up the fact that Rose dissappeared at points during the regular season, and that’s something i’d like to look at more closely. Ditto his initial passivity in the championship game.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on May 22, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing about being a distributor...
If his teammates aren’t making shots, “facilitating” becomes “passivity.” I agree that Pax needs to spend time watching film and talking with Rose because watching the opening minutes of a single game and extrapolating is dangerous.
by paxson43 on May 22, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: improve BG and T2's efficiency
yes yes yes yes yes!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 22, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giving me pause bout T2
I love Thomas and think he’s been misused and still has great potential. That being said, he really doesn’t run the floor that well. On the break, he doesn’t sprint into position fast enough. I think he can be great with Rose, but he needs to work at it and that means getting the chip (possibly deserved cause he got jerked around) off his shoulder.
by OldSkoolSloan on May 22, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no question...
...his lack of hustle and all-out activity by TT is a huge question mark, maybe his biggest. Skiles was wrong for the manner in which he called out TT on it, but his point was 100% valid.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on May 22, 2008 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More specifically...
I posted this elsewhere, and it is apropos here:
Without question, Thomas’s apparent lack of hustle in NBA games is easily the most disturbing aspect of his game; I had believed that his superior block rates in college and other indicators of "activity" (including personal fouls) were evidence that Thomas had the heart of a lion and played full-out at all times. Unfortunately, from watching or attending most of the games, this does not seem to be the case.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on May 22, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks a bit like last year's draft at the top !
You have the choice between :
1) difference making player at his position (Oden last year, Rose this year), to build a championship team around, impact on both sides of the floor (defense/offense)
2) Scoring maching at College level, dominant at college level, will probably be a good scorer at NBA level, but you get him mostly for his offense (Durant last year, Beasley this year)
Portland went with choice 1. What will the Bulls do ?
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on May 22, 2008 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Beasley's shot form
I was watching some video of Beasley on DraftExpress and I really like the arc on his shot. For a big man, I think that’s a good sign. It’s one reason I really like Gordon’s shooting form, that high arc minimizes error. Just a little tidbit. And yes, I’m bored at work.
by OldSkoolSloan on May 22, 2008 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is anybody else
getting a Rashard Lewis vibe from Beasley? Similar size, similar position. I think he’ll be better (especially rebounding), but he might get enamored with the 3 ball and lose some of his effectiveness in the nba.
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
by jpchi on May 22, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He did plenty inside in college, too.
Tough for Beasley that having a good outside shot in addition to the banging inside suddenly makes him more questionable.
And I’m finding it a little weird that, as a KU alum and consequently registered K-State hater, I’m spending so much time over the last few days pointing out that Beasley is a certifiable stud. I’m honestly fine if the end result is people wanting Rose more, but what’s with all the trashing Beasley? The kid is incredibly talented.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 22, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It helps to strengthen the case for Rose if we trash Beasley
Plus, since we only have to think about two players, Beasley probably gets even more attention because we’re not looking at seven different prospects.
by paxson43 on May 22, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seven times the negative attention - lucky kid.
Yeah, I should recognize the tactic – it’s the same one the BG and Kirk camps have been using for years.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 22, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we're only one day in!
It’s going to be a long month.
by paxson43 on May 22, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom line: We have inside scoring, they’re just not playing to their potential. Rose will make them better plus hes an effective scorer. Beasley is a great scorer but won’t nessesarily make his teamates better. Look at CP3, and Deron Williams for gods sake. Hinrich plays hard but he is no derrick rose.
by JohnnyKilroy on May 22, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
big men who shoot the 3 bother me a little bit because in the past we have seen some who have lost their effectiveness. I think the worst case scenario is that he ends up similar to Lewis.
Nowhere in my post did I suggest that I wanted Rose more. If you want my concerns over Rose, then I fear he might not develop and end up being just like Rajon Rondo now (fast, explosive, good defender, dicey jumpshot). Again, both are pretty good players but not great in a worst case scenario.
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
by jpchi on May 23, 2008 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know if this is more likely to calm your fears or reinforce them,
but Beasley attempted 95 3 pointers last season out of 577 total fga, and shot the 3 at a .379 rate. He also had 279 fta on the season. I’m too lazy to go through all of his stats and break down close-in versus jump shots, and I’m not aware of a site that does that for college students. So 16.5% of his shot attempts were 3s last year. For his career, 33% of Rashard Lewis’s shot attempts have been 3s, and it looks like he’s been over 30% of shot attempts as 3s every season except his first and fifth in the league. Lewis also had fewer fta in the full NBA season 5 times than Beasley had last year, in spite of the much larger number of games played and the much larger number of fga. IMO, Beasley isn’t as frequent a jump shooter as people seem to believe, but it got coverage last year because he can make them.
Philosophically, we’ll just have to disagree. I see the jumpshot as an additional weapon that should help open things up. And hopefully the kid gets to play for a good coach who continues to give him direction on how a team needs him to play.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 23, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pick Rose because our inside guys
are more dependable, and have more potential than our perimeter players. Hinrich completely imploded this year. There is no way you can say anything different. Thabo is still a year or two away, if he ever gets it. Gordon is just a scorer. And Hughes should be Tim Thomased out of Chicago.
On the inside, we have Noah, who is going to be a good post player for the next 10 years. Deng, a legit 3 scorer. And Tyrus and Gooden, a pretty good power forward combo who will excel with Rose drawing double teams. Anybody who says the perimeter of the Bulls is strong, didn’t watch Gordon, Hinrich, Hughes and Duhon brick their way through most of the season.
by DangerMouse on May 22, 2008 12:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rose drawing double teams?
I think you are refering to the other teams defense collapsing on him. Rose doesnt seem like THAT BIG of an offensive threat with his own scoring ability. He will be like nash and paul i think, a guy who will penetrate cause the defense to unravel and hit the open guy or if you get off of him hit the open layup/floater.
I think beasley looks like a guy who might be drawing double teams pretty early in his career, and maybe eventually tripple teams. Physically the guy looks strong as hell, i think the rashard lewis statement was pretty good, but alot stronger and the ability to do more damage from the inside….or so it seems that way. maybe like a lebron james light? Anyway a guy with the power of a power forward and the speed of a two a guard, and the ability to score from anywhere on teh court, but especially inside…thats gonna be a headache for any team to guard with single coverage. Of course if beasley does turn out to be another version of zach randolph it wont matter how skilled he is if he doesnt pass it out.
What im trying to get at is that both guys are probably gonna have similar effects in the game, and both guys POTENTIALLY have teh ability to make the entire team better. Both guys can have defenses collapse or zero in on them, both guys can take pressure off of our guards, and both guys have the abilities to change games. Im probably pissing people off but im just trying to get some people to keep an open mind about both players, trying to show that rose is not the clear cut winner of who teh bulls should draft and that it really is a complicated matter.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 22, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well. yeah I meant the other team collapsing
but if you watch NO or Utah play, teams do aggressively double team Williams and Paul at times on the pick and roll. “the power of a power forward and the speed of a 2” – now who is being hyperbolic? and yes both guys will be good, thanks for the news flash.
I prefer Rose because I think he is a better fit on the court and in the locker room than Beasley. I think Beasley best comparison is David West and Rose’s best comparison is a Tony Parker/Deron WIlliams hybrid. I would rather have the tony parker / Deron williams hybrid. The way the NBA is going, with the rule changes, it is impossible to keep quick strong guards out of the lane. In college, Rose got into the paint at will against zones, hand-checking and what have you. I also think Rose will make the players around him better. i think he will spend more time at the rim than Beasley, just like Paul and Parker spend more time at the rim than West. We’ve been playing drive and kick basketball for the last 5 years and now we have the ultimate drive and kick player at our fingertips.
I also have doubts about Beasley’s size. Someone listed the heights of the top power forwards in the league, and he just doesn’t measure that big. 6’8 1/2 isn’t a dominant inside player. Plus show me a dominant inside guy who doesn’t play D and I’ll show you a guy spending his summers watching the playoffs. Plus I like our power forwards (Tyrus/Gooden) but much better than our point guards (Duhon/Hinrich). I think Rose is a better basketball player and a bigger position upgrade.
by DangerMouse on May 22, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we get Tom Thibodeau...
... for coah, I think he would like to get Rose, because of the simple fact that Rose is a good defender. And we all know Thibodeau is the mastermind of the defence. But I could be wrong and this is just my great desire to get Rose talking…
When are you going to do something good Pax?
by bull83 on May 22, 2008 6:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thibodeau is also familiar
wth the DDM offense that Rose ran at Memphis. Doc Rivers and Calipari both spent time with the DDM guru…I don’t remember his name.
I think Sports2 posted an article about the offense and its creator. Is that link still around? It might be interesting for everyone to get an idea about the offenbe Rose ran last season.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 22, 2008 6:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What is the DDM offense in stupid terms?
I looked it up and couldn’t find something that is readable over a bowl of cereal…..please help out.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 22, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calling Sports2!!!
I’m pretty sure it was Sports2 that gave a link to a long article about it.
Maybe someone else remembers and can provide the link?
In nutshell, everyone clears out and it’s up to the guy with the ball to find his way to the rim. If he can’t, he throws the ball out for the next guy to try. In order for the offense to really work the way it was designed, you need a team full of superior ball handlers.
The article goes into a lot of depth, and now that we have Rose virtually in our hands, it’s be nice to go back through it.
Ah. Here. I found the link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/grant_wahl/02/12/memphis0218/
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 22, 2008 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In theory it sounds so idiotic
“Hey I’m gonna drive hard to the basket….oh wait I’m covered, here you try it!”
I’m very intrigued though…..how our roster suddenly became full of guys with superior ball handling skills. Rose may be here, but aside from Kirk and the occasional BG spurts, our roster isn’t too great at attacking the rim with any kind of intensity.
Then again, these types of quotes just leave me giddy
Not least, it requires complete commitment from coaches, who have to give up the control that comes with offensive play-calling and conventional half-court defenses.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 22, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weren't Noah and Tyrus
high school point guards?
Not that it makes them ball handling hotshots, but they’re above average for their positions
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 22, 2008 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you need rebounders.
It’s why Dorsey was so effective. Go stand under the hoop. Wait for a pass or get a rebound. Repeat.
by tyger1147 on May 23, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was only attempting a feeble response
to the question about who else (else-assuming we draft Rose) on the Bulls might actually be able to handle the ball without bouncing it off his foot or falling down.
If you’re saying you don’t thing the DDM is the best offense for the Bulls, I agree…though oddly enough, and this is coming from a card carrying get Hinrich out of Here Now member, on an effective clear-out, Kirk might be the best we currently have on the team.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 23, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not saying that necessarily...
...just that if the second two most likely to be the dribble-drivers are their best rebounders, then it’s probably not a good match.
by tyger1147 on May 24, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quickly thinking...
...I think the best offense would be to use Rose as a drive-and-kick PG and then use Thomas and Noah and pick-and-rolls to the hoop, pick-and-pop w/ Tyrus and then using both of those guys in a high-post (the corner of the free-throw line) and having the offense run through. A cutter like Deng or the other of Noah or Thomas, a spot-up shooter like Gordon, or re-initiating the offense through Rose or Hinrich makes a lot of sense.
I envision both those guys, while maybe not suited to create their own shots from driving from the perimeter, who could easily do it from the high-post. We did see Noah w/ the crossover last year.
by tyger1147 on May 23, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree again.
I think Rose is so extreme he’s going to make those feel like they’re playing against rec league defenses.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 23, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why don't we just make this easier on ourselves...
And package Hinrich with whatever else, send them to Miami, get the #2 pick and get Beasley AND Rose.
Just kidding.
Sort of.
by MyJalenRoseJerseyMattersAgain on May 23, 2008 1:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ive heard this in a couple different places and...
The reason it wont work is because both guys are going to be all stars (or so it seems right now) and any gm who allows another gm to have both those guys would be a foolish foolish man. Miami is basically trying to rebuild around wade and add another star at another position. Although i dont believe rileys strong claims that he wants rose and nothing else, the guy is too smart to make little things like that public knowledge.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 23, 2008 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Riley is full of it because
when I look at the rosters, I can’t see why Beasley isn’t the better fit for them. Wade loves to handle the ball. His big flaw is that he’s an inconsistent shooter. Rose loves to handle the ball. His big flaw is that he’s an inconsistent shooter. And did I mention the fact that they lack an inside scoring presence to pair with D-Wade and Marion on the wing?
SMOKE SCREEN!
It’s like he waved his hand and did the jedi mind trick on the entire North American media.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on May 23, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been known to fall in love with players though
I could see him during his scouting trip just salivating over getting Rose, making the Heat exciting to watch (they are so freaking boring if Wade isn’t dropping 35). He’s definitely having visions of Rose, Wade, and Marion just running all over the court.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 23, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
from the Sporting News'
Mike DeCoursey, who has the Bulls taking Rose #1:
“Rose is the most athletic point guard the game has seen.”
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 23, 2008 3:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Beasley's height
Other power forwards in the league – Emeka Okafor (6’8.75”), Amare Stoudemire (6’8.5”), Dwight Howard (6’9”), and Carlos Boozer (6’7.75”) – are all around Beasley’s expected barefoot height of roughly 6’8”. My guess is that after he’s measured, Beasley’s standing reach will be as high or higher than anyone on that list except Dwight Howard. Criticize him all you want, but it’s ridiculous to throw out these made up heights for other power forwards and act like Beasley can’t compete.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?draft=15&year=All
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?page=3&t=41072
by JohnG on May 24, 2008 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So Beasley gets to play with shoes on...
...and no one else does?
If that’s the case, I’ll take him.
by potato0328 on May 24, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever the shoes, he lead the NCAA in rebounding.
If it isnt height than it is effort. Either way he gets the job done.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."
by californiachicagoan on May 25, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got the job done
by taking his team all the way up to 3rd in the Big 12 and 30th in the national rankings.
Thre’s more than one way to get the job done, cc.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 25, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right and Paul Pierce is a better player than LeBron James because he carried
the Celtics past the Cavs. Brilliant reasoning. You know the only time people bring out the teams performance when arguing individuals is because they know they are wrong.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."
by californiachicagoan on May 25, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't realize Pierce was the Celtics leader
I’ll have to go back and check that out.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 25, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made a joke earlier about Stacey King,
but let’s look at him a little more closely. As a senior, he averaged 26 points and 10.1 rebounds. He was Sporting News Player of the Year…not that much different from Beasley.
I realize this doesn’t mean much to you, but let’s take a look at this, from Michael Jordan’s Wooden Award citation: "None of Jordan’s individual stats were among the national leaders, but many of Carolina’s team statistics were…" Perhaps the finest compliment that can be paid Michael Jordan is that he was, first of all, a contributor to the squad…"
Am I suggesting Rose will become another Michael Jordan, or that Beasely will become another Stcey King? No What I am suggesting is that your methodology for determining future pro greatness may not be entirely without its flaws.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 25, 2008 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, huge, HUGE difference with Stacey King...
...the issue with Stacey King is that Oklahoma played a super up-tempo offense under former coach Billy Tubbs, and I don’t think that people were sophisticated enough to take King’s stats in the proper context back in the ‘80’s – certainly the MSM was not.
While K-State had a higher-than-average tempo/pace this past year, it’s not even in the same world as the super-high pace that Oklahoma played. King was overrated because people weren’t smart enough to utilize pace-adjusted statistics.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on May 27, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know what's funny about those measurements
you’d think they’d put everyone in similar shoes. Some guys get a two inch boost and others get less than an inch.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 25, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's up to the player, though. They'll be wearing shoes of choice on the court.
Might as well measure them in what they’ll be playing in. And even so, if a player is dumb enough, with all the information they have going into it, to wear shoes that give less than an inch, that might indicative of how dumb they are.
by tyger1147 on May 25, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm more scared by overall size difference.
All the guys you have listed above are bigger than Beasley. This kind of worries me more because he might break down faster when he constantly has to fight for position with the Dwight Howard sized people in the league.
On another note, I think that Amare and Dwight have probably grown since they were drafted.
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
by jpchi on May 26, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beware of Rose
Seems like everyone is quick to assume that Derrick Rose is automatically going to be the next great point guard, while it is very possible he could be the next Sebastian Telfair. People forget how much skill Michael Beasley possesses, although all of this low post talk is kind of stupid because he is NOT going to get a majority of his points scoring down low in the NBA.
Michael Beasley is by far the safer bet, because if Rose does not become the transcendant PG everyone seems to believe he will be than the bulls will have made a huge mistake. Beasley WILL be a big time scorer in this league, whereas there are many questions as to whether Rose can fulfill such high expectations. Just because he has a lot of raw talent does not mean he will be even close to the player Chris Paul is, contrary to the assumptions of most bulls fans.
More than any thing I think people should be happy to have John Paxson as GM in this particular case. I believe his level-headed approach will be very helpful in determining the best option for such a key point in this franchise’s future. I think his talent evaluation is strong and he will not be swayed by the crap coming out of Riley’s camp, or the blind, crazed D Rose followers (Chicago Columnists). Then, if at the end of the process he decides that Rose can fulfill all those lofty expectations I will personally be satisfied. Oh yea, Pax PLEASE hire a coach with some head coaching experience. Do not hand this team over to some Jim Boylan disguising himself as the next Phil Jackson.
by Juiceboxjerry on May 25, 2008 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't get this
Rose somehow can end up being the next Sebastian Telfair or Raymond Felton, but any comparisons of Beasley to Sweetney, Kurt Thomas, or Derrick Coleman are viewed as BS. It’s the NBA draft, all players have bust potential. Because we have the #1 pick, we should draft the guy who has the biggest superstar potential.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 25, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They both..
have superstar potential, but you just don’t find players Beasley’s size with his skill set. Sweetney and Thomas never had his range or athleticism and last time I checked Derrick Coleman wasn’t a terrible player. Whereas the draft is littered with players of Rose’s ability that never pan out in the NBA. I’m not saying Beasley because I think Rose will be a bust(I don’t think that), i’m saying at the end of the day Beasley will be the better player.
by Juiceboxjerry on May 25, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think either of these guys has "bust" written on him, either.
I think in the end it’s going to be 51/49.
I’ve already gone back and forth on it a couple of times. I’m sure that whichever player the Bulls choose is going to be a huge addition to the team.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 25, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Sort of.
The future of the franchise will have less to do with the actual pick and more to do with what’s done around it afterwards. (that includes roster, coaches, development, etc.)
by tyger1147 on May 25, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A 6'3" guard that isnt an excellent outside shooter, and who ranked 90th in asissts, ...
... and wasnt even in the top 100 in steals…
Let’s just say if he is a bust, people looking back will have no problem saying they always doubted him.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."
by californiachicagoan on May 25, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please actually watch tapes of Rose
Before you make random assumptions about a player.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 25, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for letting us know you've never seen him play.
At least you’re honest.
by Illini15 on May 25, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the notion that "Beasley is the low-post scorer the Bulls need"
is really is bothering me. The misinformed pundits of the national media who keep saying this must not have watched him more than 1 or 2 times in college. Most of his points come from mid-range jumpers, threes, dunks, and tip-ins. Yeah, he has some nice post-moves, but it’s clear he’d rather be playing further from the basket than closer the majority of the time.
This is not to take away from the fact that I think he’s an incredible scorer, but the whole 3/4 combo thing scares me a bit, especially when we have promising young players at both positions (assuming we re-sign Deng).
If we knew Deng was going to sign elsewhere and Tyrus Thomas didn’t exist, I think in that case Beasley would be the clear choice. No reason to give up on the #2 pick from 2 years ago at this point.
At the least, one clear (and important) advantage Rose has over Beasley is that he plays a defined position. He’s not a combo guard; he’s a pure point. And one with unreal upside at that.
by Illini15 on May 25, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You dont lead the NCAA in rebounding by spending a lot of your time away from the basket
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."
by californiachicagoan on May 25, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So there are no players that have midrange games
That can rebound?
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 25, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do if you guard 4s in college
and if you’re uber-athletic with superb hands. Just because his scoring often came away from the paint doesn’t mean he couldn’t grab a shitload of boards. These two factors are certainly not mutually exclusive.
by Illini15 on May 25, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Telfair never proved himself against college competition...
...so that’s not really a fair comparison. If Bassy had played in college for one year and been as impressive as Rose was, and then flopped in the NBA, he’d be a fair data point. As it stands, he is not.
Parental Advisory - Explicit Content
by Jivas on May 27, 2008 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Crockett @ Knickerblogger
Rose is the best overall prospect in this draft. Although Beasley might fill an immediate need for scoring Rose creates scoring opportunities for teammates. And what really moves him ahead of Beasley for my money is his defensive value. I think he’s the 2nd best perimeter defender in this draft (behind Russell Westbrook).
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2008 10:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Le Cavs!
Conflicted (and misspell-ish):
Ori’s Thoughts: Let me be the first to say it. I think this entire draft is overrated. I don’t believe that either Beasley or Rose will be able to dominate like they did in college, and I hope that the Cavs don’t trade up thinking they will find answers in this draft. With that said, The Bulls should take the premier big guy in the draft. They signed Kirk Heinrich to be their PG of the future, and while he had a bad year last season, he’s still considered to be a good PG. They may take a look at Rose especially if they don’t resign Ben Gordon, but a Rose and Heinrich back court just won’t do. The Bulls don’t have much size up front but could easily get away with a Gooden, Beasley, Deng front court with all guys able to score and rebound.
Matt’s Thoughts: Ugh, I’ll never get to “What Went Right”. Anyhow, the Bulls would be better off letting Ben Gordon go and picking Rose. So I hope you’re right and they take Beasley. In the right situation, either one of them could be a multiple all-star, but I don’t see either as a pantheon level player. You’re taking the safe pick with Beasley, since he fits everything the Bulls supposedly need, but I think Rose is a better fit short term and a better talent long term.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2008 10:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
from the nysun
http://www.nysun.com/sports/memphis-holds-key-to-knicks-draft/78672/
The Bulls reversed field last season, going from 49-33 in 2006-07 to 33-49 in 2007-08. There was plenty of blame to spread around. The team quit on two coaches; starting center Ben Wallace began to show his age and was traded, and across the board, all members of the Bulls’ nucleus declined.
But forwards Andres Nocioni and Luol Deng, as well as guard Ben Gordon, showed only a 10% fall-off in their performances when measured by the Player Efficiency Rating (John Hollinger’s per-minute evaluation of a player’s statistical contributions). Point guard Kirk Hinrich, on the other hand, declined by a whopping 25%. Hinrich is 27, and while he may return to his previous level of play, his upside isn’t anywhere near that of Rose. Meanwhile, Beasley is a small power forward with issues on the defensive end, and the Bulls have two slightly undersize power forwards, Tyrus Thomas and Drew Gooden, who are excellent defensively.
by gman2849 on May 27, 2008 12:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
use the quotes to show what's in the article
and not your words. plllllz
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that part about emphasizing Hinrich's decline
should be stapled to the forehead of all the ‘well they ALL had bad seasons!’ crowd.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably would be fair to stamp that on the Hinrich H8tors as well
25% decline into craptitude means he must not have been so crappy, and even a useful NBA player, before this last season.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on May 27, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no hatred from me.
he played well and grew conistently for 4 years (17.09 PER in 06-07) then just fell apart last year without being injured. (13.13 PER in 07-08)
what the H@! happened?
In either case, I think that the point guard position affects the team as a whole the most. I.E. a large portion of the Bulls woes last year might have been directly related to Hinrich’s huge drop off (in scoring, penetrating, passing, defending…)
Between staying the course with this scenario and being offered (by all accounts) a much better pure point guard, I think I prefer the latter because it seems to address the (now) bigger Bulls needs.
by gman2849 on May 27, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
should've just saved it for one comment
Gooden’s ‘excellent’ defensively??
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chad Ford's Updated Mock .2.0
Rose takes the lead:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-080527
"I took a couple of bad shots," Gordon said
by BNeL21 on May 27, 2008 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
good post
good link. I dont know if rose is the clear cut winner, but i think this just goes along with my idea that rose is not the underdog in the draft, or is not the gamble…beasley is. The gamble with rose isnt so much the selection, but what you do after it.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 27, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gah
yet another example of taller = defense.
He says the Bulls should trade Gordon to avoid a ‘midget guard’, yet says Vince Carter is “A big shooting guard that can help take pressure off Rose defensively”
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I’m with you. This is probably my number 1 gripe with the people on here. Does everything stem from the playoff loss to the Pistons where Rip and Chauncey had our way with our guards? That is a legit concern, but it’s gotten out of control. All any Bulls fan cares about now is how tall guys are for their position, because it will somehow make them better defensively.
by rb22 on May 27, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
and what hurt as much that series
was Prince having his way with ‘tall enough’ Luol Deng.
Then again, I’m just a Ben Gordon ‘fan’ because I’m in favor of keeping the better players on the team. So I’m biased.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon and Hinrich
were the two players who struggled most in the playoffs and they just happen to be the two players who struggled most this season. Should people just not point that out?
by DangerMouse on May 27, 2008 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If what Luol Deng did this season isn't struggling
I really hope he doesn’t hit bottom. And Matt’s right, people are conveniently forgetting how much Tayshaun Prince was able to post up the long and athletic Luol Deng. During their comebacks in Games 3 and 6, all Detroit did was just post up Prince and Sheed, played zone, and took the games over.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not arguing Deng is without fault
quick replies by the way. I would trade Deng in a heartbeat. But to say that Deng played as poorly as Gordon or Hinrich particularly in the playoffs just isn’t reality.
In the 2006-07 playoffs Hinrich averaged 12.1 pts, 7.5 asst or 38% shooting overall, 30% from 3.
Gordon averaged 20ppg on 41% shooting and 43% from 3.
Deng averaged 22 ppg on 52% shooting with 9 rebounds a game. Deng also had more steals, blocks, played slightly more minutes, and got to free throw line more than twice as much as Kirk (though not as much as Gordon) .
I remember Deng struggled with Prince, but he played a lot better against him than Iguodala or Turkogulu did. And Deng led the Bulls in scoring 4 out of those 6 games (stats from basketball-reference.com) against Detroit. Plus he is 5 years younger than kirk and two years younger than Gordon.
And I don’t think anyone is going to argue that Ben’s defense is on par with either guy.
by DangerMouse on May 27, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU.
The public wants what the public gets....
by marionette on May 27, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget reefer madness
Tyrus does have competition for those oops- Noah is taller, and a better ball handler.
by iBurkey on May 27, 2008 3:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
nice link gman... Sam's got the big plans, wow.
Big gamble for a chance to hit big.
by iBurkey on May 27, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the other thing though, is they would have made their millions by then
We could offer them a chance for a ring, and a better team, than a max, and a bunch of B players- you know? Why not hold that Hughes contract if we must, and do the plan everyone seems in favor of here- build around Rose, deal the midgets, keep Kirk for a few weeks until Sue stops paying attention to Blogabull for a while (to let her down easy)... And try to get a scoring big or a SG over 6’4”..
If the Heat / Cleveland really gets desperate, we could make something work im sure. Hughes + 1 would close on contracts?
But seriously, part of the problem for the teams with the Bron-bron’s is the whole max contract thing- it kind of screws up the team having to pay one guy so much.
MJ didn’t max out except at end…
by iBurkey on May 27, 2008 5:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
HoopsAddict
While many people feel Michael Beasley is the top player in the draft, the best fit for Chicago is Rose. Even if Beasley does turn out to be the draft’s top player, Rose can step into the Chicago backcourt and start immediately. A lot of general managers won’t draft based on need, but with questions surrounding Kirk Hinrich and Ben Gordon, look for John Paxson to draft the team’s point guard of the future. Rose, along with Hinrich and Larry Hughes has the potential to become one of the top backcourt trios in the Eastern Conference next season.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 28, 2008 12:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was actually nodding along with that
until they mentioned Larry Hughes and top backcourt trio in the same sentence.
"I took a couple of bad shots," Gordon said
by BNeL21 on May 28, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be all for
Rose and Kirk in the backcourt, but Hughes????
by sue369 on May 28, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MostValuableNetwork
Say the Bulls take D.J. Augustin. All of a sudden the Bulls have a pass-first point guard who can beat his defender off the dribble.Later, maybe Paxson would’ve been able to swap Hinrich for some help on the inside. Best-case scenario, Paxson makes a deal with the Clippers, Hinrich and Drew Gooden for Elton Brand (whose able to stay healthy).
A roster of Augustin/Sefolosha/Deng/Brand/Noah and Gordon coming off the bench costs them a ton of money and probably gets them into the playoffs. But that’s it, they become good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to be legitimate contenders.
by NormVanBeer on May 28, 2008 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
my mistake
this really isn’t a a mock draft piece, just a ‘what the Bulls should do’ type of column.
by NormVanBeer on May 28, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was a
“what would they have done if they didn’t win the lottery” thing.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 28, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beaseley's High School Story
from the washington post
it mostly try’s to put a positive spin on his high school pranks. But it does go into some detail about his high school years.
6 schools in 4 years plus “home schooling”. that’s a little wierd.
Although, these schools apparently were top basketball programs in the nation. It’s almost like he kept going to different “semi-professional” basketball camps for 4 years. (5 if you count Kansas St)
However, In lue of Noah’s recent display, I have to take Beaseley’s antics with a grain of salt. What I seemed to get out of this is that he is an extremely competitive guy who has been treated like a star since he was in grammer school and already lugging himself around in a man’s body.
all I gotta say is … Tyrus better have bulked up a lot more this summer. (and learned to dribble better, and make better decisions under pressure, and increase his jump shot percentage and…..)
Come to think of it, when compared to the talent skills already displayed by Beaseley in comparison to Tyrus, well you get the feeling that Tyrus just won’t ever get to the same place. sigh.
by gman2849 on May 28, 2008 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sad but true...
don’t expect too much from ty….gosh could he use a good pg to get him simple dunks…he won’t have to think
by swede2287 on Jun 1, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derrick Rose Penetration
This YouTube pretty much tells me all I need to know. I can only imagine what this kind of penetration will do for our other rotation players.
the slashing deng for a layup.
the alley oop to tyrus for an uncontested dunk.
the throwback to gordon for a non-double teamed three.
the easy putback for a highly motorized Noah.
the followup catch and finish from Thabo running in behind him.
This kid just made the bulls an eastern division powerhouse for many years to come!
by gman2849 on May 28, 2008 6:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rose is so filthy.
This new era with (hopefully) Rose at the helm is going to be so, so awesome.
On that note, Pax really needs to resign BG. Do you guys realize the kind of looks he’s going to get? Remember those nights when he’d go off for 35? I can see this all of a sudden happening much more frequently since he won’t have anywhere from 4-6 hands in his face while trying to shoot. And that includes the end of game situations. Hell. yes.
by Illini15 on May 28, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Van Gundy on penetration vs. post play
Van Gundy said something interesting during last nights game between Boston and Detroit. In the closing minutes, he mentioned that getting post ups is an extremely difficult proposition compared to dribble penetration at the end of games. I think that’s especially true in the playoffs when teams know your sets and can read from where the passes are going to come. Instead, he recommended getting the ball to Pierce in a one-on-one situation and let him penetrate and dish or score himself. No pick and roll, no post ups. I agree with him. Draft Rose, get the ball to him at the top and let him make a play.
by Leto on May 29, 2008 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RealGM had a previous mock
that estimated the long-term potential of the players.
Rose had an 80% chance for the Hall of Fame and Beasley 75%. Thats a pretty glowing endorsement for both these guys. this could be the right draft to get #1.
blank”>http://basketball.realgm.com/src_feature/1235/20080514/2008_nba_mock_draft_version_71(pre_lottery_edition)/
by gillrowdy on May 30, 2008 2:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
DraftExpress
finally elevated Derrick Rose to #1.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 31, 2008 12:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We are all Idiots
http://www.bleacherreport.com/articles/25521-Michael-Beasley-or-Derrick-Rose-Ain-t-That-Simple-
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Jun 1, 2008 5:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Prediction: Paxson trades 1st pick, Gordon & Deng
for off injuried Yao Ming…. :)
And believes he pulled off a Coup!
Then he professes on June 26 on national TV for all of the Paul Gasol,Kobe Bryant, lack of big trade haters…” take that., how you like me now!.”
And everyone in the media and everyone watching TV pauses for a moment in unbelief at this blockbuster deal and his comments!
And then the world resumes as usual….with Greg Anthony stating initially without any thought “this will be a good trade for both teams…”
by exult463 on Jun 3, 2008 2:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If only Gordon and Deng could be traded on draft day.
Nice try, though.
by tyger1147 on Jun 4, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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