Denver Nuggets

by BarryLird on May 13, 2008 9:01 AM CDT

Based on the disastrous playoff experience of the Nuggets and the horrid regular season play of the Bulls, it seems fairly obvious that both teams will look to make major off season moves. The Denver Post - "Nuggets have to Change" reported that the Nuggets will likely possibly look to move Carmelo because it seems a) they can no longer maintain the contracts of Marcus Camby, Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony, and Kenyon Martin considering the group has proven to be unable to compete in the playoffs (personally I say fire George Karl, but that's just me) and b) are sick of Carmelo's off the court issues.

What are the thoughts about trying to strike a deal with the Nuggets? One of the major criticisms of the Bulls has been that they lack an all star who can make the big plays come crunch time and get the friendly referee calls. It seems like Carmelo might fight that role.

I'm not too knowledgeable about the financial situation over in Denver so I don't know who would be involved in the trade really. Melo is set to make $14.4 million next year, then $15.8, $17.1 over the next two years respectively with a 4th year player option of $18.5 million. I know it's a serious contract, but he is a serious superstar.

Maybe Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich for Carmelo and Linas Kleiza (I don't know if the money works because they'd have to sign and trade Luol, plus Denver might be looking to unload cash).

Just looking for some thoughts about the idea of pursuing a trade with Denver.

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If Carmelo actually becomes available, Bulls should definitely pursue him

The number of players involved in order to make salaries work could get substantial. You have to figure they’d want Deng to start, which could make a deal near impossible. Bulls could try working in Larry Hughes and/or Hinrich, but would probably be stuck taking back Kenyon Martin. By the end, would probably end up completely restructuring both rosters.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 13, 2008 9:15 AM CDT 0 recs

Yeah, that was my concern

It seems like pursuing Carmelo would facilitate an enormous “blockbuster” (they actually call the Cleveland deal a “blockbuster” trade) trade of some sorts. I doubt that Denver would try to trade both Carmelo and Martin because it would be like $30 million in cap, that is like 5 players on another team. Maybe though.

"Adrian Griffin with a Giant Killer" - Tommy Dore
"I haven't seen the floater pitch since Scuffy McGee" - Phil Brickma in Rookie of the Year

by BarryLird on May 13, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up 0 recs

not a play on words, but

as much of an improvement as melo would be over anyone on our team i do not think he is the answer

Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person

by 234L on May 13, 2008 10:32 AM CDT 0 recs

there is no 'answer'

(lottery win notwithstanding)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up 0 recs

The Nuggets are definitely worth discussing

Especially if they’re bringing George Karl back (drats) they’ll want to change up their roster. They also have Iverson potentially opting out and looking for a long-term deal (though not likely, as it’s a $20m option).

I’ve always liked Nene, he could serve as the strongman up front to help out Tyrus and Noah. He has a major contract as well, even longer than Martin’s, but he’s a better fit (if healthy).

Deng/Hinrich/Gooden for Anthony/Nene/Atkins?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 10:40 AM CDT 0 recs

If the rule of thumb is that you need a superstar

and Melo is maybe available, I can’t see how you don’t follow it up.

Melo is somewhere around a top 5 player in the game. It seems to me he’s been the dominant U.S. player in international competition. He has a history of rising to the occasion. (He also has some other history of note, but he’d be worth any deal the Bulls could put in front of the Nuggets.)

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on May 13, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

well I'm not worried about rules of thumb

just that Melo is better than Luol Deng, so there’s your ‘upgrade’ deal.

I don’t think he’s near a top-5 player being the awful defender he is.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up 0 recs

I truly think they would be better if they didn't get AI

The team was coming along nicely, and Carmelo has made the playoffs every year of his career. Yes, his defense draws comparisons to my mother, but I think it improves once he doesn’t play on a team that gives up the most possessions per game.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on May 13, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up 0 recs

maybe I'm not greedy enough

you’d hope the Bulls could either get Hughes or Nocioni involved.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up 0 recs

he also is a proven winner

but has bad character :(

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on May 13, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up 0 recs

There is that risk

that the coach might snitch about his lack of defense to the media.

"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."

by jpchi on May 13, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

If we're required to have a 7-footer fetish to post on BaB...

...Nene’s always been my favorite. Even if he’s not 7-ft. And is always hurt.

by tyger1147 on May 13, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

all you need to know about the Nuggs

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-player-salaries/team/Nuggets/

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 10:42 AM CDT 0 recs

My God that Kenyon Martin contract is atrocious

Can’t Iverson opt out of his contract this offseason? If they are looking to trim payroll, wouldn’t they try and get rid of the guy with the most mileage on the team, and not the young superstar they drafted 5 years ago?

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on May 13, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up 0 recs

The Nuggets turned down offers for Artest

at the trade deadline in February. They didn’t want to part with Kleiza to acquire Artest. They made public comments that Kleiza’s three point shooting was more important than Artest’s defensive gains.

Carmelo seemed to play really well last Summer with Team USA. Melo to D’Antoni’s Knicks?

The Sonics moved to hire Troy Weaver as assistant GM to Sam Presti. Weaver was formerly employed with Utah as their director of player personnel. Weaver was the assistant at Syracuse responsible for recruiting Carmelo to the school. After Melo went pro, so did Weaver, taking the Utah gig.

I think the stars may be aligning for a blockbuster deal between the Nuggets and the Sonics.

by NBA Observer on May 13, 2008 11:08 AM CDT 0 recs

Seriously?

This is the NBA we’re talking about, not college BB. Teams don’t give front office jobs to guys to help recruit players who are under contract to other teams.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 13, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

ouch

you just crushed the NBAO’s gimmick.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up 0 recs

You have more confidence in the integrity of the college game

than I share.

College basketball in the United States is the farm system for the NBA. It’s a nice deal for the NBA. They pay nothing and get everything. At least it appears as if they pay nothing.

by NBA Observer on May 13, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up 0 recs

huh?

that’s snely’s point, that in college hoops they do these front-office/agent shenanigans specifically to recruit players.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

I don't see any integrity in any major college sport

The pro leagues take advantage of them just as the schools take advantage of the players. I was indicating that unlike in the NCAA, where schools regularly employ assistants for no other reason than to attract a recruit, NBA teams would be stupid to hire someone for their organization to attract a player who is under contract to another team.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 13, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

My spin on Weaver

only focused on the Carmelo connection. There is so much more to hiring Weaver. He was part of the nucleus in Utah that drafted Deron Williams, Ronnie Brewer, and Paul Milsapp.

Oh, the other thing about Troy Weaver is that he’s a co-founder of the AAU DC Assault team. Carmelo played for DC Assault during his Summers in high school.

Weaver represents a level of professional comfort for a player like Carmelo. Jordan liked UNC guys around him with the Bulls and Wizards. If he didn’t have UNC guys around him the practice shorts were all he had.

by NBA Observer on May 13, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

Again, what does hiring Weaver have to do w/ acquiring Carmelo via trade?

You “spun” that Weaver had a connection to Carmelo and then indicated that a Sonics-Nuggets trade would occur. Why?

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 13, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

No way

There is no chance the Sonics trade for Carmelo Anthony. They just drafted Durant & Green last year to be their combo forwards for their team going forward. They get another high lotto pick this year and will build around those guys. Carmelo and Durant are probably too much of the same to be on the same team. They’re both 3’s who score alot and take alot of shots but don’t create alot for others. I think Presti is trying to build his team through the draft with guys in mind who fit what he’s looking for, and I don’t think trading for Carmelo fits that at all.

by rb22 on May 13, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

I agree w/ you

Take it up w/ NBA Observer

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on May 13, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

man, your namedropping connections

are getting flimsier by the day. They’re all connected to eachother if you look hard enough.

I do agree that they’re likely not wanting to move Kleiza. They need to trim payroll, and Kleiza’s a cheap productive player.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up 0 recs

Carmelo?

I am not understanding why exactly the nuggets would look to move carmelo anthony beside salary concerns. If anything, wont they try to rebuild around him and say bye bye to the older players. I miagine they want to see how Nene turns out but he would be a nice piece to get.

How about something built around Nocioni/Hughs + Hinrich gooden for Nene martin. A small piece. If we could get Kleiza with that trade too that would be nice. I realize how ridiculous martin’s contract is but you have to you have take something shitty, to give away your own shit. A trade like this would get rid of all the blogabull least favorite players (yes that includes you kirk hinrich). Pg can be figured out later.

Another possibility would be trying to make a run for JR Smith…just kidding.

by Sambossanova on May 13, 2008 11:55 AM CDT 0 recs

Nuggets have a GM by committee

and an owner that will spend.

The only give in this summer is that by retaining Karl they can’t be trying to enter next season with the same roster. They could do it, but where are the signs from this season or last season that this would be a solid approach?

AI wants an extension.
JR Smtih is due a QO or an extension.
Kleiza is due a QO or an extension.
They have a 14-18th 1st round pick.
They’re on the one track to breaking the luxury tax next season too.

by NBA Observer on May 13, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think they did pay the tax this year

and despite calls for Reinsdorf’s head, no owner really wants to pay the tax, especially as far from a title as the Nuggets appear to be.

I’d think any plausible deal with the Nuggets would have to result in them reducing next year’s payroll. Whatever Deng gets in a sign/trade will be less than the max, so there’s a start.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

In a Deng sign and trade with Melo

would the Bulls be able to use the full value of Den’s new contract, or only half?

Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky

by alec on May 13, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

only half (thus the 'mega' deal)

but after the trade’s over, the Nuggets can still wind up with the smaller salary obligation.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

Obviously no owner "wants" to pay the tax

but a lot of teams did. I counted up after the trade deadline and I think it was 10, although the Blazers got under it because they got to claim an injury waiver on Darius Miles. Several other teams were within a million bucks or so and just barely skirted under it.

Paid the tax (30%)
Boston
Cleveland
Dallas
Denver
LA Lakers
New York
Miami
Philly
Phoenix

Just missed: Portland (would have, but for the Darius Miles injury waiver on the season’s last day), Detroit, San Antonio, Indiana, Washington.

So add it up, and it appears to me other owners are quite willing to go into tax land. Obviously it’s paid off for some of them and hasn’t for others, but when you’re talking about a third of the league it’s hard to say the Bulls are on the cutting edge as far as what they’re willing to take on.

For fun speculation, suppose the Bulls had handled Deng and Gordon a bit more loosely, signed them up, and then been willing to go into tax land for Gasol at mid-season. Suppose they went hog wild even and hired up Larry Brown at the mid-point. I’d say there’s a fair to middling chance they’d still be playing, but it’d be extravagantly expensive and god only knows what we’d look like in a couple years.

by Sports2 on May 14, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

Philly and Miami are dropping out of that group

so it’ll be more like 7/30

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

maybe we can trade for JR Smith

Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person

by 234L on May 13, 2008 2:04 PM CDT 0 recs

Larry Hughes for JR signed

Blogabull... So Fresh and so Clean Clean!

by Goostafer on May 13, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

Maybe then we can waive the newly-acquired JR Smith

This would make room for us to sign Donyell Marshall or Raef LaFrentz.

Either guy would put us over the top!

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on May 14, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

Trade deng in a heartbeat if a deal is available

by SK23 on May 13, 2008 2:45 PM CDT 0 recs

So far as I can tell, there is no valid reason

to believe that Denver is willing to trade Carmelo.

However, if he somehow became available, the Bulls would have to be insane or incompetent not to pursue him. I would gladly trade Luol for Carmelo.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on May 13, 2008 10:19 PM CDT 0 recs

I hope you mean Luol + Kirk + Something; and not just Luol

"Adrian Griffin with a Giant Killer" - Tommy Dore
"I haven't seen the floater pitch since Scuffy McGee" - Phil Brickma in Rookie of the Year

by BarryLird on May 14, 2008 12:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

How about Luol + Kirk + Hughes?

Can we get rid of Hughes? Is there any way to be rid of Hughes? Any…way…possible?

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on May 14, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah, I guess it's possible to get rid of Hughes

but probably only if we take back another bad contract in return , and we’ll be in the same situation wondering how to get rid of that player. It might be easier in a year though when his contract is in the final year, and a team is wanting an expiring deal to clear cap space.

by rb22 on May 14, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

We're trading egos with Hughes.

Hughes me-first ego was better (at the time) than the everybody last ego of Ben Wallace. Now, if they can get someone who would gladly sit on the bench earning their zillions, that’s an improvement. Who really cares about the contract?

by tyger1147 on May 15, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up 0 recs

of course I'm overlooking the obvious point

if the Nuggets are sick of Melo’s off-court issues, would the Bulls ever trade for him?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2008 9:02 AM CDT 0 recs

No.

And they shouldn’t. Some teams are cut out to properly “manage” guys who beat to their own drummer. The Bulls obviously ain’t one of them.

by Sports2 on May 14, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

Agreed

by sue369 on May 14, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up 0 recs

well it's one of the few ways to get a discount

so…the Bulls suck.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

new stategy

the bulls have given much value to “character” these last several years and clearly that aint working. Sure itd be nice to have a championship team full nice church goin folk, but if the bulls were to pass on melo due to character then the question becomes is it the players character that needs to be evaluated or management’s? As long as his off the court stuff does not effect his level of play or hurt team chemistry its really nobody’s business (funny thing to say on a blog). one thing the bulls have lacked for awhile is personality… Skiles added some, but he wasnt suiting up… maybe melo fills that void

Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person

by 234L on May 14, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up 0 recs

my new theory is

The local reporters are so bad that no one is going to get a glimpse of any personalities on the roster unless they use Google Translate. The character stuff is a bunch off hooey; the official rhetoric is professionalism.

by hscs on May 14, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

Thing about it is

from very early on, Melo’s had other alpha-dog types to keep him in check—K-Mart, Nene, A.I.

Who would keep him in check in Chicago, now that Ben Wallace and Grif aren’t here to vote to suspend him?

by bullhockey on May 14, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

does he have any on-court problems?

maybe lack of concern for defense, but I haven’t heard of him being a bad teammate.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

Weird thought, but it seems that

being in the company of other alpha dog types keeps him kind of, well, happy… And this allows him to play basketball at a high level. Think Dennis Rodman on the Bulls.

Donning my utter conjecture hat for a moment, I’m saying he wouldn’t be nearly as happy being the focal point of the Bulls’ offense (with no other alpha dog types on offense) while at the same time being constantly exhorted to play better defense. I think the pressure would make his life less enjoyable, and I’m wondering if he’d be as effective here.

Like what if the Bulls all of a sudden got Steven Jackson? He’s under control because he’s happy and he’s got another alpha dog in the starting lineup with him. And no one’s on his case about playing more defense (although he has the physical ability to play defense). Being just another offensive weapon on that team keeps him out of trouble and “keeps him in check” in a sense.

That being said, Melo would still be by far and away the most talented player in a Bulls uniform on offense. But I’m not sure he’d be as happy here, which could limit his on-the-court effectiveness.

by bullhockey on May 14, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

Very weird thought

Carmelo may have had a few off court issues, but he seems far from a headcase or problem on the court. I don’t think he’s had any problems at Syracuse or Denver in that regard (maybe a little tiff with Larry Brown on Team USA, but we’ll let that slide). He may not have the ideal image, but he’s not some guy who is out of control or uncoachable.

I don’t see why Denver would trade him, but if they do, then we definitely would have to do whatever we could to present our best offer. We lack a go-to player on offense, and Carmelo is exactly that. Sure, he could be a better passer and a better defender, but everybody has weaknesses and those can both be worked on.

And we can’t be too picky when a guy of his talent becomes available, because like Matt said, “it’s one of the few ways to get a discount.”

by rb22 on May 14, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

Ok, I take it back--it's not weird at all.

He’s closer to being just one of the guys in Denver, and that brings a certain comfort level.

In Chicago he’d be the only guy, and I’m not sure he can be that, at least not effectively and not right off the bat.

But if the Bulls can get him, they should.

by bullhockey on May 15, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up 0 recs

Nets are sniffing around

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/nets/18962874.html

Thinking big, the Nets have had exploratory conversations with Denver about Carmelo Anthony and Marcus Camby, league sources said. Vandeweghe traded for Camby and drafted Anthony in Denver. Nothing is imminent. The Nuggets are not committed to moving Anthony yet. But after his recent legal troubles plus five straight first-round losses, they are listening to offers for their players.
...
the Nets have assets to do something: three draft picks, Keith Van Horn’s contract, young players Marcus Williams, Sean Williams, Josh Boone, Richard Jefferson coming off his best statistical season, Nenad Krstic’s contract that they can use in a sign-and-trade and one $3.3 million trade exception from the Jason Kidd deal.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 15, 2008 9:16 AM CDT 0 recs

how does

the trade exception work

Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person

by 234L on May 15, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

you can use it to acquire a player making up to that amount of money

you cannot combine it with your own player acquire another player making more money.

(basically)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 15, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up 0 recs

(i'll get more into it sometime soon)

as the Bulls apparently do have one floating around after the Wallace/Hughes trade.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 15, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

i be lazy...

got this off of wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Salary_Cap

Traded Player Exception: If a team trades away a player with a higher salary than the player they acquire in return (we’ll call this initial deal “Trade #1”), they receive what is called a Traded Player Exception, also known colloquially as a “Trade Exception”. Teams with a trade exception have up to a year in which they can acquire more salary in other trades (Trade #2, #3, etc) than they send away, as long as the gulf in salaries for Trade #2, #3, etc are less than or equal to the difference in salary for Trade #1. This exception is particularly useful when teams trade draft picks straight-up for a player; since draft picks have no salary value, often the only way to get salaries to match is to use a trade exception, which allows trades to be made despite unbalanced salaries. It is also useful to compensate teams for losing free agents as they can do a sign and trade of that free agent to acquire a trade exception that can be used later. Note this exception is for single player trades only, though additional cash and draft picks can be part of the trade.

Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person

by 234L on May 15, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

"best statistical season"

2005-06 does seem like yesterday.

by hscs on May 15, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

blow up the team

what about baron davis and carmelo? the bulls can just trade whoever the warriors and nuggets will take(including this year’s draft pick and/or future picks), then build around davis, melo and noah. if bg7 or tyrus can stay (not both, it would probably be impossible) then that would probably be a contending team in the east. this will probably (like 99%) never happen, but it would be interesting if it did. another good player to consider in place of either of those guys is corey maggette.

by kite on May 15, 2008 4:05 PM CDT 0 recs

'DUI' Melo?

Are we talking about Melo? This is the guy that Lakers fans chanted “DUI” while he was at the free throw line in the playoffs? The Bulls have taken up bad character guys before (a la Dennis Rodman) but he had superstars like Jordan and Pippen to keep him in check. That wouldn’t happen if we traded for Carmelo. He’s probably one of the top three best scorers in the league – evidenced by his Olympic team play last summer. But this shady guy is no leader – which is what you want with a superstar player.

by swede2287 on May 17, 2008 7:56 PM CDT 0 recs