No timetable, indeed.
In the aftermath of Mike D'Antoni signing with the Knicks over the Bulls, I was a bit disappointed but not completely. I felt that D'Antoni would've been a good fit, but not a perfect one, and whatever reservations the Bulls braintrust had regarding him were justifiable. Especially when debating whether he should be made the 3rd-highest paid coach in the league.
From what's been reported, most coherently from Chad Ford, is that it wasn't merely money that had D'Antoni going to the Knicks, but also a commitment from their GM and ownership that assured him of little meddling and much spending. Paxson instead, as Ford reports, wanted assurances that D'Antoni would hire a veteran defensive assistant coach. Indications from Phoenix was that D'Antoni didn't like Kerr suggesting the same, so why would he want to deal with similar issues in Chicago, for potentially less money? Now he can go to New York with a roster he knows can be demolished and rebuilt in his image, with nearly no expectations, and some nice coin while striving to become the toast of basketball mecca. Heck, a win in the lottery and the Knicks could wind up being a better roster than the Bulls as well.
I don't begrudge the Bulls for not wanting to give D'Antoni such assurances. Or D'Antoni for going somewhere for such things.
But in classic "why don't you stop talking for a while, champ" mode, Paxson, instead of saying that it just didn't work out, instead whines that he in fact was willing to work with D'Antoni's demands, but didn't have the chance to make an offer:
Team sources claim the Bulls, who were under the impression from D'Antoni's camp that they were the better fit, weren't given a chance to make a counteroffer. Those same sources insist the Bulls were willing to offer a four-year contract.
Reinsdorf was prepared to sign off on Paxson's recommendation and negotiate.
Sources said Reinsdorf came away impressed from his Friday meeting.
Paxson was intrigued enough by D'Antoni's gregarious personality and offensive
ideas for Bulls personnel to look past his desire for a practice- and
defense-oriented coach.
"I flew out to see Mike last Sunday within hours when I was given permission to
do so from [Suns general manager] Steve Kerr," Paxson said in a statement.
"The meeting went very well and I felt we connected on many things
philosophically.
"On Tuesday Jerry and I met and, because of our strong interest, Jerry was eager
to meet with Mike personally. This morning Jerry and I spoke and agreed that
Mike was a good fit and I placed a call to his agent. Jerry wanted to meet with
Mike again [Saturday] and talk about a deal.
"Unfortunately, we were never given an opportunity to make an offer of any kind,
which is the most disappointing thing in all of this. I thought it would have
been fair to listen to what we had to say. But at the end of the day we simply
weren't given the opportunity to do so. I now will continue to search for the
proper fit for our current roster."
Wow.
Like I said, to not want D'Antoni on such terms is fine. But to indeed be willing to concede any reservations and agree to 'go for it', only to find out you're too late...what kind of operation is being run here? I mean, did our GM just tell us that he's disappointed and it wasn't fair?
The problem, according to Marc Stein, is that it's one thing to retroactively say you were interested, and another to actually show it:
Paxson said in a club statement Saturday night that the Bulls were denied an opportunity to make a formal offer in the morning before D'Antoni committed to the Knicks. But who said they had to wait all week when New York's rising interest was well known for more than 48 hours?
I've consistently heard the past several days that the slow-moving Reinsdorf's reservations created New York's opening. D'Antoni was Paxson's top choice, as Reinsdorf's trip to Phoenix on Friday to speak face to face with D'Antoni would suggest. But Reinsdorf's typical insistence on a drawn-out "process" approach -- combined with his long-standing reluctance to spend big on anyone not named Michael Jordan or Phil Jackson -- ultimately left the Bulls looking decidedly indecisive (yet again) compared to the eager Knicks.
D'Antoni noticed, too.
There have been persistent rumblings from the start that Reinsdorf didn't want to give his next coach a long-term deal that paid $4 million-plus annually. Sources say it quickly became apparent to D'Antoni, during his sit-down with the owner and a lengthy Friday night conference call with Bulls officials, that the Knicks were offering more passion to go with the money.
Again, I'm not even that upset about Reinsdorf getting involved and questioning the value of paying another coach long-term big money when he just gave a cash prize to the last one after he quit on his team (reciprocated, of course).
But Paxson (who may not deserve all the blame but who is the point man for this organization, and certainly says 'accountability' enough) while I get the need to cover your ass after letting your first choice get away, don't whine about the process(though, at least he didn't blame the internet misinformation). The Knicks were making offers while you were setting up meetings. Merely days after proclaiming (or leaking through sources, anyway) that the Bulls wouldn't get into a bidding war with the Knicks, don't be upset that you weren't able to get into a bidding war with the Knicks. Sheesh.
After the Boylan era went on for about 4 months too long, all I wanted in this coaching search is a return to competence. While there aren't any perfect candidates available, all that Pax's "process" has done so far is letting two at-least 'good' coaches, Carlisle and D'Antoni, go to other teams. And if we can believe these reports, he just lost out on his #1 choice.
Stein reports that the next candidates for the Bulls are Avery Johnson, Dwane Casey, and Tom Thibodeau. What if after interviewing each (and I believe Casey may have already been interviewed) none of them "connect as much philosophically" as D'Antoni did? Not even close?
It's as if Pax thinks he can wait to interview everyone he wants, and then go back and decide who's best. Clearly it's not working out that way.
0 recs |
184 comments
Comments
Was D'Antoni the first choice
or just the first choice this week? And the early reports were that D’Antoni was the more excited one for the potential get together whereas at the end of the week now it’s Paxson who was the one itching to get the deal done? I agree that the whole thing was handled in a sloppy fashion, kind of like dragging your heels to ask the homely girl next door to the prom because you have no shot with anybody else and then finding out she’s already going with some dork from the cross country team. There’s just no win in a situation like that. I don’t feel like losing out on D’Antoni was a loss, but not getting the deal done still hurts.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 11, 2008 10:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a pretty poor analogy.
D’Antoni was hardly the “homely” girl.
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he was as pretty as you do...
And he certainly wasn’t up for prom queen. :-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a difference between Prom Queen and homely.
Besides, who do you think is up for Prom Queen this year? I mean, someone has to be, right? C’mon, quit all the “I hate this and this this and this, yet I have no solutions to offer” junk. Who’s a better choice than D’Antoni?
I think he had flash, but there was a question of substance. Paxson is looking for the perfect date, and she might already be taken. More than likely, they will have to settle for the “homely” girl in Avery Johnson or Rick Carlisle.
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure there is, the prom queen already has a date
quit all the "I hate this and this this and this, yet I have no solutions to offer"—you really need to stop parroting other people…
There’s also still Thibodeau, the “defense and development” guy. Don’t forget to include him.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
I’m just glad Paxson has someone sticking up for him saying he can do no wrong. Wait! Are you K.C. Johnson?
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's pretty obvious that you have no idea
since I wasn’t sticking up for Pax other than to say there are no great candidates out there and to say that he still managed to handle the D’Antoni situation in a sloppy fashion. But it would be inconsistent for you to actually understand the larger point and not argue with me on some unimportant minutiae…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you should just become a better writer then.
This isn’t the only place (in this thread alone) where someone has supposedly misunderstood you.
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if commenting for months on how worthless your comments are...
...makes me a parrot, then so be it.
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or maybe you need to stop
if such parrots feel the need to exist.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it were parrots with an s
and not just a single vulture, then the problem would be mine.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can count a handful.
but if you thought the problem was you, then there wouldn’t be a problem, and then how bored would we all be?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you finally get it
I am here to entertain and have a good time. And if I gave a shit what tygger thinks, of if anybody did then I might comment differently.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are a seriously clever person.
I’m glad you get your daily feel-goods here.
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really sorry you don't
why do you keep coming back then?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For information and "conversation" on the Chicago Bulls?
I’m able to feel good about myself through other means other than meta-whining (I’m parroting that because it is quite clever)? I was actually joking when I said that. I didn’t think you actually got positive self-esteem from it. I guess I was wrong.
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume you know you're parroting me
when you borrow that “clever” word construction. Not that it matters. I’m proud of every neologism I contribute to the ongoing conversation.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dig back in the archives
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take it back
that was you, wasn’t it. Damn, that was good enough I wish I did create it.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're all entitled
to our one moment.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as I said over the weekend
you don’t contribute that much. It shouldn’t be to merely to entertain yourself.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mild correction
the motives can be to entertain yourself, but the result should be more substantial then what you put forth.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
were you on the cross country team?
just for the record, they aren’t all dorks. :-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an example of a cross country runner
who is definitely not a dork.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id=3111847
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pax made up his mind
a while ago as to what direction and what kind of coach he wanted, regardless of what he said about the process. But then Mike D became available and it was like a slider on the inner half—his knees buckled. And just that quick it was over.
by hlac on May 11, 2008 10:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
except
Pax said from the outset he had no idea what type of coach he wanted. And thus far that’s proving to be an accurate statement. So I don’t see what’s out there to believe otherwise.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No hlac
You really should believe everything that he says, and not try to read more into it. He’s very truthful.
His view points and management might be a bit distorted, but the integrity of his statements are consistent.
A few weeks ago he said…
“No timeline for a new coach” and “he does have any idea what type of coach he’s looking for”
During the last few weeks he has been very true to his words.
by exult463 on May 11, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im guessing
pax is gonna blow up real soon and make a horrible decision, thus leading to his ultimate [as part of the bulls organization] death. party at my house? be there or be a fan of pax.
by bulls*hit on May 11, 2008 11:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Dantoni Aftermath
Its not like I was convinced that Dantoni would make the bulls championshiop contenders. But Dantoni seemed like the one true chance this franchise had to align themselves with somtheing that would have put them back in prime time. Dantoni would have attracted free agents and he would have sold allot of tickets. The thing is now what are the Bulls? I mean more than anything this past season really drove home that other than a few good years under skiles the team has been pitiful for a decade. and even under skiles you still had no 50 win seasons and only one playoff series win over a debilitated mimai heat. This Dantoni thing reminds me of Krause whiffIng on Mcgrady and signing Eddie Robinson. Really now since Jordan its been one flub after another. Doesnt Reinsdorf owe it to the fans to cough up some dough? And where do they go from here – is it another lotttery pick? or an aging superstar? I say if you dont get lucky and somehow get the 1 or 2 pick then you make an agressive move and package whatever pick you do have with a couple of players and get Dwayne Wade. This guy is the only conceivable option to rescue the franchise and bring instant respectability. And if you get Wade it really doesnt matter as much who coaches.
by ELVISJONG on May 11, 2008 11:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So next in line is....
Avery’s failures as a head coach are well-known over the past 2 seasons+1 Finals, and the fact that he might cause Kirk to spontaneously combust with angst. I guess the best thing for this team is for it to find its defensive identity again after a pretty lackluster effort this season on that end. My concern about Avery is that his offense in Dallas was mostly a glorified isolation system, which is fine when you have a guy like Dirk. The Mavs were a pretty weak passing team, whereas the Bulls were at their best the past few years when their drive and kick offense seemed to always find the right cutter or open man.
Thibodeau has an excellent reputation for being a defensive mastermind, and has had success with every team he’s been on with making them defensive stoppers. But, there is no way you can hire him as a head coach without having some kind of offensive specialist there to help him out.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 11, 2008 11:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thibodeau
have you guys seen him? He doesn’t look like a leader of men.
by Megatron27 on May 12, 2008 2:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the warning
And to think, I was going to let his track record of success as a defensive assistant fool me into thinking he’d be a good candidate. Boy, I hope the Bulls up the offer for Avery b/c he really looks like a leader when he’s always screaming.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on May 12, 2008 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he sounds whiny and pathetic.
Cross him off the list, too!
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is touching on shaky grounds, but
I think there’s something to what Megatron is saying. In a competitive, adult league, I don’t think you can just throw out the primal leadership aspect when sizing up a coaching candidate. Maybe you’ve seen at it your office – some people can lead, some people can’t, and it rarely has anything to do with knowledge level.
I got the same impression of Thibodeau as Megatron did. And although it’s not an end-all factor, I think gut feeling is worth considering, especially for a team that has tuned out its last two coaches.
by YaoPau on May 12, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
some people can lead and some can’t. But since when is that based on how they look?
by NormVanBeer on May 12, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because, you know...
Jeff Van Gundy, Lawrence Frank, these guys look very leader-ish.
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely irrelevant
Let’s get Pat Riley, since he’s always immaculately dressed with his hair perfectly slicked back. Doc Rivers is a snappy dresser, he must be a great coach! I’m interested in Thibodeau because he has a sterling reputation as a defensive coach. However, I don’t know how he interacts with players (presumably well), and I highly doubt he can coach a team with an effective offense without some kind of help.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He looked like a leader alright
A Mob Leader!!! The way he acts and the dirty tactics he uses (but no one can prove it!!!) and the suits and hairstyle….oh yea..hes a mob boss…
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 12, 2008 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets be honest
he had lots of talent on the Suns and couldn’t get the job done. Personally I never was fond of Dantoni with his constant crying to the refs and his emotional outbursts. If it’s true that he was one of the biggest pushers for the Shaq trade well then thats even more reason to let the dude go to the Knicks. Clearly his value was cash and not Defense. Thats why he beefed with Kerr and the same problems would haunt the Bulls if he was the coach.
So maybe it’s a blessing. Paxson’s main goal should be getting a respectable coach and fix he roster and then worry about a big named coach. After all players win titles right? Just ask Jerry Krause.
However it’s become clear that Paxson is a lame duck GM.
Honestly it’s time to admit he failed with Tyson Chandler.
He miss judged Ben Wallace’s decline in Detroit.
He failed to land KG, Gasol or Kobe.
He failed to sign BG and Deng.
He couldn’t right the ship with high expectations.
He hired a bum assistant coach.
Now he’s missed on his top coaching prospect.
Paxson has failed and I can’t see him pulling through this unless the Bulls get lucky in the lottery. The odds are Paxson’s time is over as Bulls GM. Sadly. He doesn’t gamble and it may have cost him big time.
by Megatron27 on May 12, 2008 2:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
oh this burns...
The Bulls almost certainly will hire one of those three - odds favor the less experienced (but less expensive) Thibodeau - and then start working on boosting the morale of players like Luol Deng, Ben Gordon and Joakim Noah, who were hoping so much to play for D’Antoni.
by Megatron27 on May 12, 2008 2:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls have to get Thibodeau to save face before he is grabbed by the Suns
He has 18 years of NBA experience and has a reputation as an excellent teacher of defense and player development. But I do wonder why he has never been hired prior to this year’s success with the Celtics to be head coaching material?
He is supposed to be very effective working with bigs and is credited for much of Yao Ming’s improvement in Houston. He obviously was able to blend the talents of the Celtic’s 3 superstars into a defensive juggernaut this year. So what I am suggesting is that, unless there is some secret talent behind the curtain somewhere, the Bulls better go all out to sign him before they let another one slip away.
No more dawdling, unecessary interference or game playing. Make him feel welcome, give him enough power and freedom to put his own stamp on the team. Let him hire his own assistants and get out of the way before another collasal blunder sinks the Bulls back to square one.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 12, 2008 3:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pax may end
up coaching this team himself.
by sue369 on May 12, 2008 6:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
With the Bulls
he was an assistant for a year.
Plus, he coached his sons grade school teams. ;)
by KT on May 12, 2008 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I won't be able to contain the laughter
if this happens.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't wish it upon him
Pax’s has had enough already.
by exult463 on May 12, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I said
it as a joke. There were a few in here during Boylan’s tenure that asked for Pax to take over the coaching responsibilites. I was basically making shit of them. :D
by sue369 on May 12, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did the Bulls tell Jackson to be an assistant first?
McGraw says so
Jackson remains a long shot. The Bulls see the long-time point guard as an intriguing candidate, but are concerned that he has never coached before. Jackson has so far refused the Bulls’ suggestion that he start as an assistant.
If they did, I don’t really have a problem with it…however, it’s just more of the same thing all over again. You know the guy had no coaching experience even before meeting with him. Why pose and posture and even peform due dilligence? Jackson wants a head coaching gig…I’m sure he was insulted to interview for the head job only to be told to go get some experience being an assistant. This franchise cracks me up the way they treat people.
by NormVanBeer on May 12, 2008 8:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
just to add...
I totally agree with Jackson being an assistant first. But can’t you let the man know this BEFORE you interview him? Isn’t that what agents are for? Can’t you contact the agent with a message that you want to tell their client? The agent in turn, can send word to Jackson, and he could’ve just declined the interview from the outset.
by NormVanBeer on May 12, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that what interviews are for?
to find out if the guy can do the job? You really think it is insulting to say to a guy, “we think you have a lot of potential and might someday be able to do the job, but we are uncomfortable putting you in charge of the product from day one. How about trying it out as an assistant for a couple of years first?” Really, you think that’s insulting?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would
This is the NBA, former jocks get overpromoted all the time. Hey, look at our GM!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
and i don’t blame the bulls for wanting him to be an assistant first. but i could definitely see the interview going well, but with the bulls a little uneasy at a guy with no coaching experience. if you are applying for a job (in my field, for instance), to be a senior level engineer, without ever having done it. you’d be entry level.
by Jaina on May 12, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's insulting
I have a strong assumption that the Bulls already knew how they felt about Jackson from day 1…which is, they wanted him to be an assistant. It’s widely been known how Pax feels about people with no experience. All I’m saying is, if that was the case, why interview him for the head job in the first place? If they knew that, then yes, it IS insulting. If the scenario went like you described…they interviewed him, THEN after the interview they thought he needed more seasoning, then no that is not insulting.
No other team has even thought about interviewing Jackson, except for the Knicks….not the Mavs, the Bucks, the Heat, the Suns…something tells me that Pax & Co only interviewed him because NY felt so strongly about him.
by NormVanBeer on May 12, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then it's due diligence
and Pax giving Jackson the chance to show him that Jackson had what it took. Just because Jackson thinks he can be a head coach doesn’t mean anything.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so if
a fortune 500 company is looking for a new director or manager, it’s due diligence if they interview the mailroom guy for the job?
by NormVanBeer on May 12, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
would the mailroom guy be insulted?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
maybe, that is, only if he thought he was qualified for the job.
by NormVanBeer on May 12, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being an assistant sure qualified Jim Boylan!
And about a million other coaches who were assistants before becoming bad head coaches.
by Sports2 on May 12, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the brightside
now that D’Antoni is head coach of the Knicks perhaps he and the Walsh braintrust get together to talk trade with the Bulls to acquire those Bulls players D’Antoni likes so much.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
unless their names are Larry and Andres
The Bulls aren’t going to ‘win’ any trades.
by hscs on May 12, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus Thomas for David Lee!!!
Joakim Noah for Ranaldo Balkman!!!!!!!!!!
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i found
this take to be kind of interesting. also to see the negative comments from the readers.
maybe we didn’t lose out. guess we’ll see. what’s really key is what happens next.
by Jaina on May 12, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well they did lose out
whether it turns out to be for the better is a different story.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jaina - there is a slew of negative comments about the D'Antoni signing
This morning Mitch Lawrence
Mike D’Antoni coaching the Knicks? What’s next, trading for Shaquille O’Neal to come in and play point guard?Here’s a better one: Make D’Antoni the GM of the Knicks, too.
Seriously.
It makes sense on a lot of levels.
Now that Walsh is committed to throwing defense out the window and running a cutting-edge offensive system that puts a premium on unselfish shooters, who better than D’Antoni to tell him who to draft and who to sign as free agents?
Nobody.
D’Antoni might be the only one cut out for the job, since his old boss in Phoenix, Bryan Colangelo, is preoccupied in Toronto trying to install the very same system.
Even Walsh has to look at a reduced role now. His drafts and signings at Indiana over the better part of a quarter of a century reflected the old NBA way of thinking (incidentally, the kind that keeps producing championships, but why let facts get in the way of a good fantasy?).
Walsh merely would have to learn from D’Antoni what works and what doesn’t in his system. The Knicks are now a new-wave team, so they had better adjust on all fronts and go all the way with this.
That means that Walsh can burn that supposed wish list of GM candidates. Who knows if it was even half-accurate, given Bold Donnie’s proclivity toward using that lawyer background of his to engage in semantic “twistifications.” Or, in plain English, deceit.
Bringing in Billy King, Billy Knight, Rick Sund, Mark Warkentien or anyone else who is old school wouldn’t be the right fit for the GM job, any more than D’Antoni is the right fit for this Knicks roster.
by chgobr on May 12, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Knicks fans are used to complaining
but I don’t get why they’d be concerned with D’Antoni’s fit with the roster. That roster’s getting blown up, and that should make everyone fairly happy.
Likewise, they’re so far from winning anything significant that what’s the difference if you have a coach that has never won anything significant. In fact, I’d say the same thing as a Bulls fan. Their only chance is to get the values back for the players they do have, and I think D’Antoni may have been the best choice for that. Unless other GMs know about pace factor too.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting Blown up?
Curry, Randolph and Crawford (player option in ‘09) are on the books until 2011. Richardson and Jerome James are on the books until 2010. Not many GMs are going to be salivating to get their hands on those guys until their last year (if at all). In exchange, Walsh will have to take back salary as well. While its clear that they can probably clear enough room for a summer 2010 run at Lebron, its not entirely clear to me that that possibility will help D’Antoni over the next two years.
Why does Donnie Walsh get a pass for presiding over the decline of the Pacers in this decade? Do we lay the blame at Bird’s doorstep for the entire mess? Will their styles mesh or will D’Antoni push to run the show?
Also, JVG made a good point on Thibodeau – all of the talk of his defensive prowress neglects that fact that he might just be a good coach (as one post mentioned re: his development work with Yao). While Pax’s approach has been somewhat embarrassing, all hope is not lost…even if some of the excitement is.
by Gene Banks on May 12, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pacers' decline was like a freak accident
I hardly blame anyone on that team for their surprising spiral into worthlessness.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not saying they'll be much better, merely different.
bad contracts get moved all the time. Hey, maybe they think Larry Hughes can really light it up.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The most disappointing...
..aspect of this whole thing is not that we didn’t get D’Antoni…it just confirms our suspicion that Pax, while conventionally intelligent, isn’t the most shrewd or opportunistic guy, and it makes me go back to those Gasol and KG discussions and wonder whether he missed out on something there too. (earlier, we gave him the benefit of the doubt, now I just question his savvy). He seems to run the club “by the book”, in a very theoretical manner, rather than in a practical way like say a Joe Dumars.
by bullsfaninbigapple on May 12, 2008 8:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Joe didn't have that one championship
I think they’d be saying the same things about him that are being said about Paxson. A few of those Detroit teams have underachieved, last year for sure. But he’s got the ring, so I guess he’s earned a pass.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you think?
5 straight conference finals appearances as well, under 3 different coaches. Not bad for underachievement.
Plus he did it without a stockpile of lottery picks.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't think they underachieved the last two years?
Given their talent and the eastern conference, shouldn’t they at least be playing for championships?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, but it's still not bad for underachievement
The Bulls are soooo far away from that. When they underachieve they can’t get to 40 wins.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and besides, what's your point
you just said they have enough talent to win the conference every year. So, Dumars is awesome.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's the coaches who suck. :)
And the whinny-ness of R Wallace which gets them down.
by KT on May 12, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but they also have the talent to win championships
and they don’t, which isn’t awesome. So compared to the bulls they are awesome, but compared to history, they are underachievers. While I am sure that that being compared to their Chicago counterparts is all most Detroit fans really care about, they are missing a chance to be something much greater.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, this little mini-inanity
was borne out of merely comparing Dumars to Paxson.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
and the point of it was, that the grass isn’t greener, depending on how you score it at home.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you score Dumars below Paxson?
you had a point?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where did I say that?
I was disagreeing with the “practical” way Dumars runs the team.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two stages
The reason why Dumars is promoted as one of the best general managers in the NBA is because while the club is performing with current stars(Billups, Wallace, Prince, Hamilton, Saunders) he is also working diligently to prepare the second team for emergence to the highest level. Maxiell has already moved into the high level from the second team. Amir Johnson is about another year away. Stuckey and Afflalo are rookies, but getting some burn. Michael Curry and Terry Porter are assistants to Saunders so if the team flakes or Saunders bolts they have very healthy options ALREADY under contract.
Dumars has a solid forward thinking approach to the NBA. About the only fault he’s had during his tenure was the drafting of Darko.
The Bulls are so far away from the Pistons in terms of organization health. What I was hoping we’d get in D’Antoni is a couple of seasons of elevating the stock of our existing contract players so we can move them for better chips.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nazr Mohammed for the MLE was a slight mistake as well
at least in the misses he doesn’t do so in a Wallace-esque magnitude
Completely agree with your reasoning for D’Antoni.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Increasingly, I am seeing the business value
in this Colangelo/D’Antoni merging of Euroball with the NBA game. The league must notice it as well. Last years finals were the lowest ratings in NBA history. That series was the exact opposite of the what appears to be driving the NBA ratings up this season: offense and scoring, which the league has been tinkering with its rules to increase.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason why Dumars is hyped is a series of great moves
Don’t get me wrong, he might be preparing well for the next level, but every one of his current stars he got via an outstanding move.
- Billups was gotten for the MLE
- Wallace was gotten for basically nothing
- Prince was taken 21st in the draft
- Hamilton was gotten for Jerry Stackhouse
Those were absolutely kick-ass moves, every one of them.
by Sports2 on May 12, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget letting The Corpse walk
and not raising his offer or sweetening the pot. Joe D got off that smelling like roses: he made a generous offer (one that would still be a bad deal today), Wallace was greedy and left on his own choice only to show everyone he was finished as a player.
Darko is the obviously mis-step but what scout and draft prognosticator did not have Milicic #2 in any mock draft? Colangelo made a similar mistake with Bargnani, though it didn’t cost him Melo, Bosh, or Wade.
by messwiththebull on May 12, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Conference Finals 5 years in a row
Implies they were one of the last 4 teams to contend for the title. He’s made 2 egregious errors as GM. Not re-sign Mehmet Okur and drafting Darko Milicic. What is Dumars supposed to do if the Pistons players are arrogant as hell to the point that lesser teams beat them? He assembled a great team, and when they play with full intensity, they are pretty damn hard to beat.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they could re-sign Okur
and stay under the tax, but perhaps moving Darko early could’ve fixed that somewhat. Yes, Dumars had tax constraints as well.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But only Reinsdorf is fat!!!
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, that was odd
I meant to say cheap instead of fat.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
how did you mix up those two words?
by NormVanBeer on May 12, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The markets have undergone a little turbulence.
Time to rebalance the portfolio.
Out of the blue, Bill Gates calls a couple of big portfolio managers with an exclusive offer of Microsoft shares at a 10% discount to the market. Donnie Walsh says, "Holy shit! How much can I buy?" Paxdorf says, "Well let me commission a feasibility study, I don’t know how well Microsoft is going to fit in my portfolio."
After turning it over in his mind a few days, Paxdorf decides that a 10% discount sounds acceptable and calls Gates back, "Well, the price seems OK, but I’d like to also have a seat on the board."
To which Gates responds, "Sorry, fresh out of shares. Walsh bought it all."
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 8:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Alec - I appreciate the Bulls bungling - however what if Paxson's due-diligence finds
in the small print that there is a 15% surcharge when you sell the stock. If the deal is a good one then it will work after a few days of scrutiny. The Knick rush to signing may be a good “gut instinct” by Walsh or a dumb move. Walsh has done both in his career.
by chgobr on May 12, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walsh hardly bought anything at a 10% discount.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 12, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine. Let's call it preferred stock
rather than common stock at a discount.
Your objection, debating the details of an analogy, is a good analogy for Paxdorf’s failure to get Gasol and D’Antoni. They fail to see the big picture. The window opens and closes before they finish sorting through all the fine print.
Almost by definition, a great opportunity is short-lived. If you waste your time combing through all the fine print, by the time you finally decide it’s a good deal, somebody else will have already snapped it up.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually wasn't debating the details of the analogy.
I just like to disagree with you on occasion. ;)
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 12, 2008 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In your exams...careful about those Miller Analogy tests.
You gotta pretend you’re not too smart, because they’re designed for the fat middle of the bell curve. Too smart people tend to out-think the questions and get brought down by all the itty-bitty problems with the analogies, finding every response false. ;-) back at ya.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"begging"?
A person with knowledge of the situation said Bulls players were filling team executive John Paxson’s inbox with text messages, begging him to bring D’Antoni to Chicago.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix125683405may12,0,7152760.story
yeah I know, I know, more speculation but the thought of Noce texting Paxson brings a smile to my face for some reason…nice…
by NormVanBeer on May 12, 2008 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Sr Pax a la caza del loco bigote - chapu"
nm
"It is not the same to talk of bulls as to be in the bullring." ~Spanish Proverb"
by VivaLosToros on May 12, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a Bulls player's agent
Someone’s agent uses the NY press to get into the media what the player doesn’t want attributed to them.
My guess, Raymond Brothers, whom Alan Hahn would very likely speak with since he’s use him as named source in articles about the Knicks. Raymond Brothers represents Zach Randolph.
Don’t be surprised if a trade is engineered to send Ben Gordon to the Knicks.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A note
Raymond Brothers also represents Ben Gordon. We all know what Ben Gordon’s Summer with the Bulls should be like.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
'we' all don't 'know'
Gordon and Deng are good, young, and seemingly available. A basketball writer could speculate on where they might end up, their levels of unhappiness with the Bulls, or how much they should get paid based on obvious facts and anecdotal evidence that have nothing to do with agents. No faux-insidery name-checkers required to shine light on the upcoming media coverage of the Bulls’ RFAs.
by hscs on May 12, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not speculation
That’s a fact being reported. It might not be true, but it’s reported as fact :)
by Sports2 on May 12, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think NormVanBeer
meant the speculation was from himself and that the player sending the txts was Noc. :)
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
players as GMs
i think Pax just isn’t fit for this job. i don’t think players, for the most part, are good GMs. GMs need to be shrewd negotiators, which obviously Pax showed in this process he is not. they gotta think quick, talk quick, and move quick, too. look all across sports, all the good GMs are NOT former players. GMs need to evaluate talent as well, but that is what you have scouts for. i have no problem with former players evaluating talent, but your GM is your point man in negotiations. i don’t think Pax is cut out for that role.
by BULLieving in Miami on May 12, 2008 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe former players not from Notre Dame would work
Sorry BJ Armstrong. You just didn’t have the Chicago connections the Bulls were demanding.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yikes.
that was so devilishly cynical even I felt a little twinge reading it.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iowa connections are good
just not as good as ND connections for the Chicagoland markets.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make an excellent point.
Having played or not played is not defining for a great GM.
Since Matt hasn’t yelled at me for a few days, let me risk a little (more) cross-industry analogizing.
I spent my working years with two different trading companies.
One company would search through the U of C physics and math graduate schools for its prospective traders. The owner (who had a brother who was actually a brain surgeon), placed a huge premium on IQ as the necessary ingredient for success.
The other company (whose owner attended college on an athletic scholarship) hired clerks and trade-checkers who’d been tournament-grade tennis players. His idea was that the ability to react quickly and on the fly were key attributes of a great trader.
Their combined results were that sometimes each company made great hires, and sometimes not…kinda like what hscs is saying here about former player GMs, and not former player GMs.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's because I've focused my energy on Bullshooter
I still find whatever you wrote above worthless, even though I didn’t read it.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd feel a lot differently the way I make some of my comments
and the way you comment on my comments if you weren’t such a hypocrite. If you’re going to call people out for jerking each other around, it’d help if you weren’t such a jerk to people yourself.
oh and :-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can be a hypocrite
If there were rules, I’d be above them.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Them’s the rules, bullshooter.
I’m tempted to quote King Lear…oh (with apologies to tiger, who I know hates me for this), OK, I will:
“As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods; they kill us for their sport.”
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
funny you say that
interestingly enough, you’d think former athletes would make good GMs because of the competitiveness they possess, like the tennis players you brought up, but i don’t know if their competitiveness on the court translates to the negotiating table. it’s obviously not the MAJOR difference between a good Gm and a bad one, but it might play a part.
by BULLieving in Miami on May 12, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at Jordan
His mac value is putting the basketball in his hands and letting him create.
Go score Mike. OK.
Get to the line Mike. OK.
Trade contracts, acquire drafts picks, and hold the line of the salary cap Mike. What, how?
Joe Dumars has the Zen Master approach to running an NBA team without any Zen. He sees the bigger picture because he can see it. Too many former players just don’t see it because they’re running an NBA team the way they played the game. It’s a completely different rule set.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me, one of the most important qualities of a great GM
is the willingness to commit before all the facts are in, knowing that sometimes he’ll be wrong, but more often he’ll be right. To me, Paxson’s the opposite.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Dumars...Jerry West
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good GMs
RC Buford in San Antonio, bryan colangelo in toronto (he’s assembled some talent), donie walsh is a proven GM, donnie nelson in Dallas (and even though the Kidd trade didn’t work out like they wanted, he still went and got the deal done even after it was stopped twice, which is more than Pax did in pursuing KG, Pau, or Kobe.) Pax keeps waffling and just doesn’t take the risk and move quickly. almost like he’s always second-guessing himself, like he’s afraid to fail. if you don’t risk failure, you’ll never succeed.
i will admit, though, that compared to the other major sports, basketball does have more successful former-player GMs. but that’s the nature of the game as well. you don’t have to hit on as many players like you do in football and baseball. one or to good players in basketball makes you a contender.
by BULLieving in Miami on May 12, 2008 12:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
Just like coaching, it’s easy to be a bad GM. That being said, I went through the list and figured I’d take the management of half the league before I’d take Paxdorf.
by Sports2 on May 12, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
story of the Bulls
“we’re better than half the rest”
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see it now, driving down the Edens...on a huge billboard
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah!!
That makes the bulls Above Average….NICE!!!
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 12, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically, I'm not sure about that
One could argue that the phrase “the rest” already excludes those teams that are actually something, so only being better than half the rest would roughly place the Bulls around the 3rd quantile.
However, if one uses “the rest” as a generic term for all teams that are not the Bulls, then yes, that puts them at the very bottom of the top half.
(Cut me a little slack in my obnoxiousness – I’m studying for finals.)
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 12, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Optimism
Gets shot down here alot…ill find another comment to find the light in…. :)
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 13, 2008 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, there isn't any pedigree info that you can evaluate a gm by
Donnie Nelson stepped into a good situation, didn’t improve it, then made it worse. I’m not sure how much credit/blame he’s owed, if any. Dallas is always doing something, but they’ve lost more good players than they’ve acquired, and they’ve acquired a lot of garbage.
by hscs on May 12, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nelson has made good draft picks, though
devin harris was a find, josh howard. i know they traded harris, so i agree with letting go of good players, but they’ve also drafted good players.
by BULLieving in Miami on May 12, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harris a find?
Only if you live in Miami. Donnie grew up in Wisconsin, he knows all about Wisconsin basketball, as did a lot of GMs in the league who tried Devin out, including the Bulls.
by KT on May 12, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i apologize
i don’t watch a lot of college basketball, and i just realized that harris was a fifth overall pick. then there you go. another garbage GM.
by BULLieving in Miami on May 12, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe even as early as next season
you might be able to put the Harris/Kidd trade as one of Dallas’ real blunders.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
forget the lottery
i think the knick’s roster is already more appealing to an offensive minded coach (or any other)
Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person
by 234L on May 12, 2008 12:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I look forward to seeing what D'Antoni does with those players
Of all the teams in the NBA, NYK is the one I think prefers to play defense the least and offense the most. D’Antoni should be able to tinker with that.
Knicks 165
Bulls 164
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and this is just the coaching search
the roster still needs work done, though we might’ve been able to stand pat with these guys a bit more with d’antoni. but now i feel a lack in confidence with Pax. i don’t know of any big names to be had in free agency or the trade mill, but if there is one we don’t know about, is Pax gonna be able to go and get that player??
by BULLieving in Miami on May 12, 2008 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming Paxson is pretty much
a laughing stock at this point.
I can’t see a single NBA player or his agent thinking, “Gee, that looks like a great situation in Chicago.”
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm, maybe only to the ones that are already here
no trades and signings for a few weeks anyway. Maybe there will be somebody coaching by then, exciting or no. (“Pete Myers has always been loyal to this organization…”)
Plus, I’m still banking on a lottery win making Pax a genius again.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
had to throw pete myers in there huh?
Are u assuming Pax makes the right pick if we do get to the lottery? Cuz i dont see how winning the lottery would be anything more than luck. Had they tanked what was already a lost season to ensure a better pick maybe the genius status might return…
Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person
by 234L on May 12, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm?
That’s probably the wrong word. Alec could help with that. I mentioned before: hiring D’Antoni and getting lucky enough to draft Rose would make Paxson a genius. He would have only had to be mildly smart to make that happen—other than the luck involved in getting the No. 1 overall pick.
by tyger1147 on May 12, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...not to mention what's increasingly looking like
the luck he had in landing the job in the first place. However, I do agree—luck plays a huge role in an NBA team’s success, or lack thereof. Not the sole role, but a disproportionately large role, I think.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it takes years of embarrassing moves to be a laughing stock
Pax has done too much good, and too little bad to consider him Isiah-Knight-King-Jordan incompetent.
by hscs on May 12, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the good is?
+ what have u done form me lately
Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person
by 234L on May 12, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rebuilding a sucky team through less than ideal draft position, and trading away garbage
That all happened “lately” too. That’s why the Bulls were considered disappointing. They were a good team, and all signs pointed to improvement (Except for Sam Smith’s “no smiles, no wins” sign.)
by hscs on May 12, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken
on the laughing stock part…but he’s got some work to do to restore the Bulls as a desired destination.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 12, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe his credibility with the players (current roster)
is at a all time low. Respect is low and maybe irreparable?
I believe when he comes in the locker room, the players assume the same position as when Boylan enters the room. And Boylan doesn’t even work for the Bulls. I can’t imagine Paxson coming in the Lock room to drop the hammer and tell the team to gut out a win during half time and the team responds?
He’s too nice of a guy. I think Paxdorf needs to make a move and promote himself to President of Basketball Operations and hire someone to right this ship before he (organization) really becomes a laughing stock.
I sense this situation has existed for quite a while now, and has little to do with D’Antoni. IMHO.
by exult463 on May 12, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't wait!!!
another low lottery pick. Great!! exactly what this team needs. in this draft, if it isn’t one of the top two picks, its not gonna matter.
speaking of drafts, and this is going back a long time, but i always wanted the bulls to draft Odom over Brand. though, if they would’ve kept Brand, that wouldn’t have seemed so bad. i just bring it up from watching yesterday’s Lakers-Jazz game. Odom put on a show, his whole game. that guy could’ve done wonders for the bulls.
and also from that game… if the lakers had won, how would jazz fans be feeling? “first, MJ takes us out with the flu, now Kobe gets hot with a bad back.”
by BULLieving in Miami on May 12, 2008 1:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
looking at the bulls after their first good run in the 70's
from 79-90, the bulls always had a draft pick of 11 or better. Until they get lucky or get the right guy, they will continue to draft in the top 10.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 12, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lamar Odom?
Seriously? You’re getting sucked into a guy who is playing like a star because there are now 2 All-Stars on the team. He has never been close to the talent level he possesses, and it’s taken him years and several ideal situations to produce on a consistent level. Yes, he will be an absolute beast on LA now at the SF spot, but it took the emergence of Bynum and the arrival of Gasol to bring that beast out in him.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
odom alone
can’t get it done. i never said that. heck, brand got the clippers in the playoffs with the help of sam i am. all i’m saying is this bunch WITH odom wouldn’t be bad. reminiscent of the one year odom played with the heat, with a bunch of young guys, a scrappy group. there’s no denying that odom can score from anywhere on the floor. who on the bulls can claim that distinction?
by BULLieving in Miami on May 12, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Odom is going nowhere
He’s just getting into the Triangle groove and he’s still young. Interpret “young” as in “not that old”.
by NBA Observer on May 12, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That scrappy young group
Also had future All-Star Caron Butler and Finals MVP Dwayne Wade. Again, he was the 3rd banana on a team.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, you're not excited about Danilo Gallinari?
Sadly, in most NBA drafts, if you don’t have a pick in the Top 3, you won’t be able to secure a superstar.
The Bulls have only had really high draft picks in relatively weak drafts. We haven’t been lucky enough to land a spot which would enable us to draft a LeBron or Oden.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on May 12, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the biggest slap in the face was 2002
1st Yao Ming….....2nd Jay Williams.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Arnold Schwarzenegger is The Terminator, than Paxson should be The Procastinor
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 12, 2008 2:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Duh! I meant to say The Procrastinator
At least I didn’t procrastinate when this idea crossed my mind. Ma ybe that’s why Pax is aftaid to act decisively.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 12, 2008 2:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know. I may have to take drastic measures
usually people can figure out the system after the first dozen jabs at their expense.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 12, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heighten the snark to unprecedented levels.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 12, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's procrastinating....
learning how to use it.
Step 1 - Hire a coach. Step 2 - ... Step 3 - Win.
by Lt.Dan on May 12, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just hit the + button next to reply. If this doesn't work, feel free to exile me.
I expect this to post next to Lt. Dan’s remark. At least I have triggered some latent humorous, though cutting, remarks from the gallery. If this doesn’t work, I will voluntarily take a leave of absence until I see the light. One final aside, I was all set to name D’Antoni The Rejuvinator but the Paxdorf team deflated my balloon. Between thier game playing and indecision, in my eyes they have become The Alienators.
P.S. In a lame attempt to get the sympathy vote, I do have Parkinsons which makes typing while my fingers are in constant motion, sometimes a challenge. OK forget that ploy. I know that the word sympathy sits in the dictionary between suicide and syphillis.
The capacity of humans to bore one another seems vastly greater than any other animal, especially my dog.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 12, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it wasn't bad enough,
or almost wasn’t bad at all, that Pax missed out.
What made me sick was how he whined about it afterward, and the version of events that he told to the press.
It’s at times like these that someone from inside the organization should stop Pax in his tracks and ask what the f* he thinks he’s doing.
If he was a cold-blooded killer, or even slightly aware of his situation, I’d think he’d put D’Antoni and D’Antoni’s agent on his s* list and bide his time, then tell the press calmly and coolly that D’Antoni’s not that good, and we were in absolute control of our side of the negotiations. End of story.
But this way, he gets to look like a spurned loser, a crybaby and the face of a joke of an indecisive organization whom people routinely feel right to walk all over.
Good going, Pax…! :)
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 12, 2008 4:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The procrastinator felt a need to make up some lame excuses to cover his incompetence once again.
No matter what alibi he could concoct, who would beleive him?
It is hard to believe someone is telling the truth, when you know you would lie if you were in the same situation. “i did not have sex with that woman” We never were given a real opportunity to close a deal for Gasol, Koby, D’Antoni, etc.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 12, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually,
I was saying that if he was sophisticated, he would lie about the situation in the press. Rather than look like a whiney b*... As rehashed in this post by Matt and the ensuing comments.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 13, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Breaking News!
Wow, a tremendous number of commenters here seem to have escaped from day care.
by Tommy Patron on May 12, 2008 5:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Suns may not be interested in Thibodeau
This may be a stretch but in today’s Arizona Republic Steve Kerr outlines the type of coach he wants.
“I don’t want to do a 180 and all of a sudden try to turn us into something we’re not,” Kerr said. “I still want us to maintain our identity as an uptempo team. I’d like to expand that and be more balanced and add some defensive emphasis, but not at the expense of who we are.“I want someone who’s good with the media and communicates well with players and fans. Someone with a strong presence.”
In the same article it is noted that
He is not naming names, so identifying assistants on his list is pure conjecture. The assistants generating the most buzz are Boston’s Tom Thibodeau and Detroit’s Michael Curry, but both are defensive-minded coaches, and Kerr is not looking for a drastic change in the Suns’ style.
The coaches he may be interested in are:
There are three former Suns players who are assistants on Western Conference playoff teams – the Lakers’ Kurt Rambis, Utah’s Tyrone Corbin and New Orleans’ Kenny Gattison.Former Suns players and coaches Paul Silas, Paul Westphal, Vinny Del Negro, Eddie Johnson and Lionel Hollins also have surfaced in speculation.
by chgobr on May 12, 2008 6:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So does that mean we have an open door to Thibodeau?
Is there any good reason the Bulls should not take him?
The price is right for cheapskates like Reinsdorf.
He supposedly is excellent at developing young players
He has a fine track record on teaching effective defensive schemes, and
finally, and most important….
He comes cheaper than anyone with head coaching experience.
Did I mention the Bulls could keep more of their money?
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 12, 2008 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he turns out to be a good head coach, why not take advantage of the opportunity to get him on the "cheap"?
I’m sure alec will take the ball and run on this more, but lower cost doesn’t always equal lower value received.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on May 13, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely demoralized Bulls fan
I just saw a headline in ESPN Insider asking “Can D’Antoni lure LeBron to the Knicks?” and became even more depressed. Not because I had any delusions of LeBron on the Bulls, but because D’Antoni was the right hire.
I want Paxson to go on the Score, ESPN Radio, etc., and explain how the hell he and Reinsdorf let this happen and how he could even throw out the BS excuse of not having had an opportunity to make an offer. The Bulls had a head start on D’Antoni, met with him first, had him express serious interest in the job, found out about the Knicks interest, found out about the proposal NY was drafting up, and with all this known the Bulls still let the Knicks beat them to the offer. I demand an explanation and not excuses because this is the fourth time these two prickteases (Pax and Jerry) have toyed with their fanbase – the same fanbase that has remained loyal for a decade of futility and still sells out that building. I demand an explanation and not a released statement with nothng but whining and excuse making. I don’t think I’ll get it though and now couldn’t be less excited about this team. I have so little faith in this organization that even if luck were to shine on the Bulls’ ass and they get a top 2 pick, Pax would find a way to draft his boy Kevin Love.
by messwiththebull on May 12, 2008 8:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Assuming everything Tyrusmancrunch and messwiththebull is true
I am not convinced D’Antoni would have succeeded with the Bulls. Steve Kerr is not stupid. Something was very wrong in Phoenix to cause Kerr to lose D’Antoni. It is well documented on this site the concern a number of NY sportswriters have with D’Antoni as coach. D’Antoni would have been great summer excitement for all of us BlogaBullers. I just don’t know if he could have delivered in November.
by chgobr on May 12, 2008 8:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps Steve Kerr is not stupid.
But he gave 2 first round picks to SEA, just so they’d take Kurt Thomas’ contract. This year’s and 2010’s, both unprotected.
I don’t have to wait to see where the Suns finish in two years to know that’s either going to look simply dumb, or dumber than dumb.
Joakim Noah for player/coach!
by marionette on May 14, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Avery tells the Bulls "F-You!"
Well not really, but his actions say otherwise:
As of today, however, Johnson’s representatives had yet to reschedule an interview with Bulls general manager John Paxson, who postponed their original meeting last week.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/945228,bull051208.article
I’ll probably get blasted again for jumping to conclusions but what else is new. The writing is on the wall. You can pretty much count Avery out.
Is Thibadeau even still a good option? Do they really want someone whose team only plays D at home?
by NormVanBeer on May 12, 2008 10:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Your point is well taken. When crunch time stops were called for against Atlanta and the Cavs, the bloom came off the rose, at least on the road so far.
Was it the fault of the defense or did the Big 3 just run out of gas? He does have a long term track record of holding opponents down, I just hope it isn’t primarly a result of Houston and the Celtics playing a half-court slow down style of offense, rather than great D schemes.
I still think the cuppord is almost empty and he would be our best choice. Wishful thinking or desperation on my part? I don’t really know. I just want this circus to end so the focus can shift once again to what player mix the Bulls need to turn this ship around. With D’Antoni at the helm, it would have been a lot more fun to speculate with our athletic lineup.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 12, 2008 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
point taken
but this team also won 66 games during the regular season. must have been doing something right away from home – just not in the playoffs for some reason.
though gotta consider this is a team being coached by doc rivers.
by Jaina on May 13, 2008 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reinsdorf says money was not an issue
The Tribune quotes Reinsdorf saying money wasn’t an issue and D”Antoni lied to him. He claims that D’Antoni told him he did not want to go to the Knicks.
The “misled” accusation stems from their 2-hour-15-minute meeting Friday at D’Antoni’s Phoenix-area home that is mere yards from Reinsdorf’s, a meeting Reinsdorf said he left at 4:45 p.m. local time.“The second subject, I said if we need to get something done this weekend we shouldn’t even bother talking because it will take longer than that,” Reinsdorf said. “He said nothing had to be done over the weekend.
“I also said if this proceeds to where we want to make an offer, we don’t deal with coach’s agents. He said that’s not a problem and that money wasn’t the most important thing anyway. He said he wanted a job where he was going to be happiest. He said he didn’t want to coach the Knicks.”
by chgobr on May 13, 2008 6:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Vescey continues to rant against D'Antoni
The counter D’Antoni continues as Peter Vescey claims there is something that has changed in D’Antoni.
Two months later, D’Antoni became completely unraveled by the Suns’ failure to beat the Spurs. He’d been sarcastic toward opposing coaches for some time and had been condescending to anybody within the organization who disagreed with his philosophy.But in the San Antonio series, he advised fickle fans who were on the ledge to jump. And he got testy with those in the media who questioned his refusal to order fouling at the end of regulation and OT in Game 1.
However, the biggest shock was his aversion to make offseason defensive and practice adjustments strongly required by owner Robert Sarver and team president Steve Kerr.
and there is more
Like his most recent predecessors, Knicks president Donnie Walsh opted for the name general with a chest full of ribbons. I say an original voice with an unusual message was needed. Walsh says the ex-Suns’ supreme commander gives the Knicks a better chance to win over the next two seasons with basically the same unmovable misfits who were victorious 23, 33 and 23 times under “resumes” Larry Brown and Isiah Thomas.That was a deciding factor in hiring D’Antoni instead of Jackson, Walsh told me, stating it was a painstaking, mentally exhaustive, down-to-the-wire judgment.
I say Walsh dropped the ball. Either he took his eyes off it or his mind wandered. Upon his arrival he told us his short-term goal: Field a team that played hard and smart, and get progressively better (owning their first-round pick, for a change, surely can’t hurt) until salary-cap constrictions allow the Knicks to recruit a superstar or two.
D’Antoni may have been a terrific fit for the Bulls. Certainly better than the Knicks. I believe he could have added excitment to the offense. There is something about his demeanor over the last few months that concerns me. Wojnarowski also perceives this character flaw.
Everyone is ripping the Chicago Bulls for failing to go harder at D’Antoni, but as one GM who considers Chicago GM John Paxson and Kerr friends said, "To me, Pax is even an even more hardcore defensive guy. He loved the way (Scott) Skiles did it." Paxson insists the Bulls wanted to make an offer on Saturday, but D’Antoni never gave him the chance. If Paxson ends up with Celtics assistant coach Tom Thibodeau, he’ll never regret it.As for Donnie Walsh, he’s thrown himself into the line of fire. Most of D’Antoni’s peers watched an easy-going, self-deprecating man grow too full of himself, too sensitive to criticism. Perhaps this was a response to his belief that Suns management was undermining him, and maybe that goes away with a GM who hired him, who’s invested in his success.
Lately, the more his system would get questioned, the more irritated D’Antoni showed himself. It spoke to a sensitivity, an insecurity, that could get him torn apart in New York. He’s never been to the NBA Finals, but he always left you thinking that his system was beyond reproach. Popovich has four titles and acts less sure he has it figured out.
by chgobr on May 13, 2008 6:44 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

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