D'Antoni a Knick (via SI.com)
[ed. note: From the fanposts. This is reported byJack McCallum, who's pretty plugged in to D'Antoni and friends. So it's about as official as it gets. I'll likely have some rationalizing to offer sometime this weekend, but overall I'm pretty disappointed. -Matt]
Walsh entered the picture last Monday when he interviewed D'Antoni at his home in Scottsdale, Ariz. That talk was sandwiched between D'Antoni's two interviews with Chicago Bulls general manager John Paxson, who spoke with the 2004-05 Coach of the Year on Sunday night and again on Monday morning in Phoenix. On Friday afternoon, at his home in Scottsdale, D'Antoni also talked to Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, who has a home about 200 yards away from D'Antoni's. But in the end, Chicago couldn't match the New York offer. Walsh also interviewed Avery Johnson, early favorite Mark Jackson and Rick Carlisle, who has landed the Dallas Mavericks' opening.
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
0 recs |
240 comments
Comments
I got a text
Saying the same thing…my reply was….NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 10, 2008 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Paxson is a good scout, but not GM
The fact that the Bulls couldn’t seal the deal with a coach who wanted to coach here, when the players wanted to play for that coach, and when the fans wanted that coach after selling out that shitty arena for years with horrible, horrible teams… I’m just disgusted. This franchise is bush league. It is just a matter of time before the exodus begins. I can see Lu leaving, Ben leaving, trading Tyrus Thomas – Paxson can see the talent, he just can’t nurture it. He cares more about toughness and discipline than winning. And now it seems like they lowballed Avery Johnson as well. It is beyond ridiculous, players are just ripping the organization. Get ready for the next Bulls coach – Doug Collins.
by DangerMouse on May 10, 2008 1:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ditto x 10 DangerMouse
The Paxson/Reinsdork axis just stuck a dagger into the hearts of most Bulls fans and players who were ready to rock the rafters with the arrival of a player friendly, knowledgeable, uptempo, offensive genius. Paxson also indicated he wants to retain Ron Adams and Pete Meyers, another deep flesh wound for those who have suffered under this regime.
These Scrooges better get a committment from Thibodeau asap to at least retain some credibility. Unfortunately, with no guarantees he would sign with the Bulls, the Celtics will likely wind up in the finals before they can even attempt to lock him up. Has Paxson as GM reached the status of one who embodies the Peter Principle. (promoted beyond his capabilities)? I was heavily dissed for suggesting the Bulls sign Scottie Pippen to an assistant’s role, but I find it interesting in the latest ESPN, the magazine that Tyson Chandler’s wife said his most memorable basketball moments were when he got to play along side of him.
Wouldn’t it be the height of embarassement if the Knicks somehow make the playoffs next year, while the Bulls wind up in the lottery as Deng & Gordon walk away. Before I totally condemn the ineptitude of this organization, I will wait until they execute Plan B. I hope it doesn’t stand for bullshit. We’ve been fed enough of that already.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 10, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 110%
Not only does not sacking up and bringing in D’Antoni completely deflate the fans, but it destroys any excitement the players had. Do you think anyone will want to play for Drill Sergeant Avery? Hell no. Look how they responded to Skiles after he finally wore them down. It was basically a mutiny. This is a disaster from all angles. D’Antoni was a slam-dunk from every aspect…hire him for a few years, develop the young guys into offensive threats, and then when it comes time, bring in a guy like Avery or Thibs to re-hone the defense into a championship-caliber one. Now we’re going to be looking at a Skiles-like team of a couple of years ago, where the players have to bust their asses every single night to compete just because we won’t be able to score with the other team.
Not to mention the fact that Deng is most likely peacing out. I don’t know if BG will want to be back with this mess of an organization. Say hello to Larry Hughes, everybody!!!!
Unless we win the lottery, this organization is completely screwed for the foreseeable future. How did we get to this point? It’s sad, really.
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd think a Thibedoeu hire
would signal just as much that player development was key, if not moreso.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I would even go so far as to say that Thibodeau might be an even better hire for this team. He’s well known as a great player developer and his defensive schemes are consistently excellent which is why the teams he’s worked for always are at the top or near the top of defensive efficiency. The pulls regaining their footing as an excellent defensive team, while maybe not as exciting as running and gunning in the seven seconds or less offense, would go a long way towards them returning to the playoffs. Another point, if Thibodeau is as good a basketball mind as everyone claims and it’s so obvious that this team is built to run, why wouldn’t he model his offense on that premise. D’Antoni’s not the only one whose teams can run. Not getting D’Antoni doesn’t necessarily mean we won’t be a team predicated on transition.
by fundamentallysound on May 10, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point.
We have no idea what Thibodeau’s offense will be like. We do know what JVG and AJ will be like, though. I really have to think at this point, it is Thibodeau or bust.
by tyger1147 on May 10, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we have any idea what his offensive philosophy is like?
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think hiring Thibideau
might mean getting another assistant who is an offensive oriented coach to run the offense, but I don’t know.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 10, 2008 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's a given
But I’d like to know what his take on the offensive side of the ball is like.
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am beyond furious
I’m already over caring about next season
by The90sBullsRevival on May 10, 2008 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
At least,
we can find comfort in the fact that there’s still Pete Myers and Ron Adams on the staff.
:-(
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on May 10, 2008 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
PLEASE JUST SHOOT ME Diablo
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 10, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only after
Pax trades Tyrus this summer.
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on May 10, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Pax trades Tyrus you won't have to shoot me
I will take myself out in a murder-suicide.
Riht after I take Paxson first.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 10, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What organization doesn't let their coach hire his own assistants?
And what is with the love affair with Pete Myers. How did this guy become so entrenched in the Bulls organization. When he replaced MJ at SG, did he sign some type of lifetime contract with Jerry Reinsdorf? Is Pete Myers Reinsdorf’s adopted son? I don’t understand how a journey man, scrub works his way to indispensible assistant for the team – meanwhile the Bulls can’t find a job for Pippen… Now i’m just pissing myself off, gotta stop thinking….
by DangerMouse on May 10, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, who's next?
Alright, so if D’Antoni is gone (and Carlisle) and the Bulls have already had their offer to Johnson rejected, which coaches are left? Thibodeau, (presumably) Mark Jackson and who else? Especially if the report about Johnson rejecting the Bulls’ offer is true, it appears that the team’s options are rather slim, once again.
by paxson43 on May 10, 2008 2:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think they have to push to get Avery
but at this point, I don’t think they will. I don’t think they are going to get Thibodeau either, not if the Suns want him – heck, he might just stay on the Celtics bench. I really think the Bulls are going to end up with a retread like Van Gundy. I just don’t see any creativity in this organization – Paxson is a mediocre executive at best.
by DangerMouse on May 10, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FUCK
fuckfuckfuckfuck.
i really hope this somehow turns out not to be true. this season continues to be a bad dream, even though it’s fucking over!
by Jaina on May 10, 2008 2:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jaina
Just what the Fck are you tring to say? Don’t hold back. Tell us how the Fck you really feel.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 10, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i apologize
i got a little overemotional about this.
the bulls just killed any possible momentum that may have excited me at all about next season.
by Jaina on May 10, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We love it when you talk dirty to us, Jania
I was absolutely confident that the whole NY thing was a smoke screen to get some leverage on Pax. Makes sense… a GM who knows what he’s doing; money for the coach; money for players. Those seem to be ingredients one might consider when cultivating a championship squad. It speaks volumes about the perception of the Bulls org. Second class all the way. Second City, second class.
That said, do you think Pax had to use his left hand to pick his jaw off of the ground when he heard the news?
"It is not the same to talk of bulls as to be in the bullring." ~Spanish Proverb"
by VivaLosToros on May 11, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SHITTT
that pisses me off. I thought it was a done deal and i was telling my buddies that we got the suns’ coach. that sucks. I don’t know who we’re going after next, but i really wanted D’Antoni.
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 10, 2008 2:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
big deal
D’Antoni’s not worth that much. It doesn’t matter if he was perceived to be the best coach available. All the choices are/were pretty underwhelming, and the next guy may only last a season or two. Spend on a really good coach when a real one is looking for a job.
by hscs on May 10, 2008 2:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
All this shit about D’Antoni being the 3rd best coach behind Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich is laughable.
I don’t know what all the fuss is about a guy who hasn’t won anything.
Excitement isn’t what it’s all about folks.
I speak from experience.
As a Rams fan, I was forced to watch Mike Martz single handedly destroy my team with his all out offense and no defense approach. Boy was it exciting to see a coach turn your team from one of the best in the league to one of the worst.
by Option27 on May 10, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way.
D’Antoni probably would have gotten the bulls to score more points, but you know what, Jim Boylan got the bulls to score more points this year too.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 10, 2008 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As exciting as D'Antoni might have been
Throwing 24 million at a coach with somewhat significant flaws isn’t the greatest idea. Plus, I have even greater doubts about D’Antoni now. I don’t trust anyone that’s willing to coach the Knicks. Maybe he’ll surprise, but I have my doubts with that roster.
formerly sbulls
by Scotter on May 10, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he can resign
if they don’t win the lottery. Friendly ping-pong balls and they’re better than the Bulls. I’m not sure I trust anyone who wants to coach this team…there’s little room to do anything special anytime soon. Even a return to 50 wins will be ‘meh’. With the Knicks he can be a hero.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know I actually forgot that they actually had a lottery pick this year
It’s such a new concept
formerly sbulls
by Scotter on May 10, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
They’re roster is a disaster – not only that, but it’s completely inflexible. It’s not like they can blow it up, because no one wants their trash.
Me thinks there’s an agreement in place for Stern to rig the lottery. Then they draft Derrick Rose and Bulls Nation collectively weeps.
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine they'll change quicker than they're given credit for.
As long as the Knicks are willing to spend, I’d imagine they could find a way to move one of the guys they really want to move.
by Sports2 on May 10, 2008 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Serendipity?
If there is ever a hope of enjoying a playoff battle between the Knicks and Bulls anytime in the foreseeable future, this may be the seed. NY needs all of the expertise they can muster after Isiah mucked it up.
I loved those classic bloody battles with the Knicks with Mike & Co. taking on the Pats + Thugs Inc. I bet that it will be a different brand of basketball should D’A get the Knicks to that level. In the meantime, it’ll be interesting to see what he does with the manure that he’s been planted into. Is J’O to NY finally going to happen?
In the least, this helps us Bulls fans take an active interest in continuing to root against the Knicks.
"It is not the same to talk of bulls as to be in the bullring." ~Spanish Proverb"
by VivaLosToros on May 11, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*whiff*
I called this on Wed but I got beat up by people like “snley” for jumping to conclusions and overreacting. It was pretty much a wrap as soon as the financial battle entered the picture. Oh well, as quick as I got excited about D’Antoni, I’ll get over this just as quick. I liked him, but I think the Knicks will be the ones who will suffer (at least at first).
by NormVanBeer on May 10, 2008 3:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you must be psychic
Predicting the Knicks will outspend another team… Unthunkable!
by hscs on May 10, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that the Knicks would outspend someone
but that the Bulls would shrivel up and wimper away.
Oh, and it’s “unthinkable” smart guy
by NormVanBeer on May 10, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
Didn’t the Knicks just make D’Antoni the 3rd highest paid coach in the NBA? There’s only an accountant in the bowels of MSG shriveling up and whimpering right now.
Oh, and it’s “sarcasm,” Emmanuel Lewis.
by hscs on May 10, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
I don’t even know what the Emmanuel Lewis comment is supposed to mean, so I’ll let you translate that lost joke on your own.
As usual, you don’t follow because you’re too busy trying to be an ass. My “prediction” (your word, not mine) wasn’t that the Knicks would exactly outbid the Bulls, it was that the once pressure was applied (in a financial sense) the Bulls would go away. To outbid someone, more than one party has to put a bid in. From reports, it doesn’t even look like the Bulls got that far. So they didn’t get outbid, they simply got spooked and ran away.
Don’t try to pass off your mis-spelling as being “sarcastic”...that’s a pretty lame cover up for being un-funny in the first place.
by NormVanBeer on May 10, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took it as sarcasm
and it wouldn’t have been a misspelling, it’d be a typo. Which is a lame reason for you to be un-funny.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a typo
because it was misspelled. Jumping in something that doesn’t even pertain to you is just lame period.
by NormVanBeer on May 10, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emmanuel Lewis-Webster-Noah Webster
It wasn’t really meant to be ‘got’. I’m laughing at my own jokes, and recognizing how clever and smart I am is pretty important. I think you’d agree that patting yourself on the back is the best kind of back patting.
I called this on Wed but I got beat up by people like "snley" for jumping to conclusions and overreacting.
Sweet prediction, dude!
by hscs on May 10, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
semantics
“prediction” vs. “I called this”...technically I never said “prediction”, you did.
by NormVanBeer on May 10, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paint it any color...
But the point he was making is that you jumped all over him for something that turned out be true.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on May 10, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually typed a dozen words
There wasn’t any jumping involved. Let’s make that clear for Norm. He hates when things are misrepresented.
Someone bold enough to recognize her or his own massive achievement in pointing out something rather obvious should be able to take the heat.
by hscs on May 10, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, fair enough...
And just for the record I always love a good Noah Webster joke.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on May 10, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
apparently
it wasn’t too obvious for some people, because as I said in the first place, I got jumped all over about it. True, it may have been obvious to you, but you don’t represent everyone here. I would know if I was “patting myself on the back”, and I wasn’t. Maybe you took it like that from the way I worded it. But I was honestly only referencing what I said a couple of days ago.
Just like I missed your sarcasm, you missed what I meant in my post.
by NormVanBeer on May 10, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how 'bout we flip for it?
Just don’t brag about picking heads a week from now.
by hscs on May 10, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure...
Bring Webster into it why don’t you. Jerk.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on May 10, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just remember, the end doesn't justify the means
Plus, it looks like the Bulls didn’t even get a chance to make an offer, so we’ll never know if they would have matched or not.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on May 11, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls were just too slow,
while D’Antoni likes to go fast.
Now we can enjoy a break (not fast) until Pax can interview top assistants on successful teams.
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on May 11, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
avery
why would avery join the bulls if they wont pay him more then what he is making by taking time off. Unless he is desperate to get back to coaching he would lose tons of money. If the bulls arent willing to pay D’Antoni, they arent gonna pay Johnson? If they do, that would add injury to insult.
by Sambossanova on May 10, 2008 3:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed that Johnson likely would sit out
plus, this job isn’t as plum as Marc Stein (“budding star Luol Deng”) thinks.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rudderless ship
Personally, I thought D’Antoni would have been a nice addition to the team. He is well-respected by players and I think the listless losers on the current Bulls roster would have been energized with him at the helm. I didn’t buy the “no defense” talk because the Bulls have better natural defenders than the Suns. Moreover, Pax’s and Reinsdorf’s insistence that the Bulls retain their identity as a defensive-minded team is laughable. This team has no identity! At a minimum, his hiring would have brought some excitement to a team that is bordering on irrelevancy.
I did not go into this thinking “D’Antoni or bust,” so although I am disappointed that the Knicks got him, I am more disappointed with Paxson’s (and maybe Reinsdorf’s) general handling of the coaching search. These repeated statements about how this will be done on the Bulls’ schedule ignores the realities of how these deals are done. If someone is available, you make an offer or else that person gets hired elsewhere.
As I understand it, Pax’s approach was that he was going to interview everyone on his list and not make a decision until all interviews were held. Guess what? Carlisle and D’Antoni have been hired. Johnson is probably not going to coach for anyone next year. Mike Dunlap (who?!) has been hired by Arizona. Who is left? Tom Thibodeau? What if he doesn’t work out or stays with the Celtics? Mark Jackson (who has said he would only coach the Knicks)?
There is a lot of speculation that losing D’Antoni came down to money (which is reasonable given Reinsdorf’s involvement). Please remember that the Bulls raised ticket prices this season, making us the third most expensive ticket in the NBA. Is the team purposely trying to insult its fans at this point? Remember that we are paying for the privilege of a losing team, incompetent coaching and an overall boring product. Can someone remind me why I still care?
by Stay Chisel on May 10, 2008 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
to see 82 different suits on Pete Myers?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
judges also would have accepted...
... being able to hear “Freeze it! Now roll it!”
by Stay Chisel on May 10, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great post
I totally agree. Everyone is saying “let’s wait and see who they hire” but who’s left? We are placing an awful lot of faith that we are going to get Thibodeau from the Celtics. I bet we end up with Jeff Van Gundy (who I wouldn’t completely hate) or the Piston’s assistant that has been mentioned. The Bulls aren’t going to pay Avery more than Dallas will pay him to sit home, and I don’t think bringing in a guy with no coaching experience like Jackson makes sense when you are looking for a quick turnaround. The Bulls knew they were going to fire Boylan 5 games into his reign, yet this is how we conduct our coaching search? Its beyond pathetic, Paxson needs to account for himself. He has screwed the pooch one too many times.
by DangerMouse on May 10, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe they're not looking for a quick turnaround
which I’d consider smart, because there isn’t going to be one (unless they win the lottery)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps
but I still think at the end of the day your team has to have a system and identity. They aren’t looking for a quick turn around, they aren’t looking to rebuild, and they aren’t looking to move players… so what is the plan? What is the team’s identity? 30 win team I guess.
by DangerMouse on May 10, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what it is
until it isn’t.
Identity is just given after you win. They’ll likely be a top defensive team again fairly soon, if that’s enough for you.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i totally disagree
Nellie went to Golden State and played Nellie Ball and they won. KG and Thibideau made Boston into a good defensive team from day one. The best GM and coaches go into situations with a plan already in place. Over the next 3 years we know exactly what the Knicks intend to do, just because of the coach they hired. Your coach and best players provide who you are. Scott Skiles made the Bulls into a great defensive team.
Paxson doesn’t seem to have a plan. That is a huge problem. Like I said elsewhere, we are putting an awful lot of stock in a guy Thibideau, that we haven’t seen as a head coach, haven’t interview, and who really hasn’t won anything as of yet.
by DangerMouse on May 10, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but if Nellie ball went into play
and they sucked, their identity would be suck. So consider this identity Boylan-ball until further notice.
Isn’t the identity already established as a defensive team?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'd still be a run-run-run team, wouldn't it?
Identity isn’t just winner or loser, although that’s obviously part of it.
by tyger1147 on May 10, 2008 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love your thinking...
but dislike VG as a coaching candidate if only for this…
"It is not the same to talk of bulls as to be in the bullring." ~Spanish Proverb"
by VivaLosToros on May 11, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So did D'Antoni make his decision before or after he personally
spoke to Reinsdorf?
Reports indicated that they were going to meet this weekend.
I wonder if Reinsdorf stated that the Bulls weren’t prepared to offer financial terms comparable to the Knicks?
And while this isn’t a disaster for the franchise and doesn’t presage doom, it certainly isn’t a positive development either. If people were reticent to get excited over D’Antoni, who was an established head coach with a gaudy winning percentage, then there definitely isn’t any reason to get excited over an obscure Boston assistant with no head coaching experience.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on May 10, 2008 3:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
who cares if they bring excitement?
bring winning, get excited. Thibodeau isn’t obscure in the least.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winning is exactly what I was referring to.
Certain posters have indicated that there was no reason to believe that D’Antoni is a great coach who could turn the franchise around, despite his established head coaching record. If that is the case, there is even less reason to believe that Thibodeau is going to lead the Bulls to victory. The fact of the matter is that the guy has never been a head coach and there is no public track record to indicate he will succeed in that role with the Bulls. We are left to rely on the assessments of various League “insiders” and the judgment of Paxson, which has been suspect of late.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on May 10, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe there's less reason
but the gap between them could be narrower than we all think.
The real question is what will Paxson do if Thibs is just an awful interview. :-)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a really interesting question
After Thibideau, things could get ugly and make today seem like a pleasant time.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 10, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Past personal experience?
Didn’t Pax (or JR) interview Thibs for an assistant’s job a year or three ago? I thought that I remember reading that he once interviewed with the Bulls. Maybe when Skiles was hired?
"It is not the same to talk of bulls as to be in the bullring." ~Spanish Proverb"
by VivaLosToros on May 11, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
never heard that before
but if so it’s interesting.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Ben Gordon's looking for excitement.
I can’t believe he wants to play for another guy who preaches defense, no matter how nice he is. That’s a big leap, for sure, but if Gordon’s thinking too much, he might think someone who comes as a defensive assistant but be quick to sit him again.
I’m sure all the players were looking for excitement. Everyone knows that D’Antoni is well-liked by his players and he plays a “fun” type of basketball for the players. I’m sure all the players know this. Thibodeau came from Van Gundy who is not known for exciting basketball. I’m sure all the players know this, too.
by tyger1147 on May 10, 2008 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excitement for excitement's sake
I’m normally firmly on the “your identity is what you do on the court” bus, but I thought the biggest selling point for D’Antoni was that his system would work pretty well with most of our key guys and they were anecdotally chomping at the bit to play for him.
While that can all change when the rubber hits the road, I’d like to have had a guy the players were eager to play for. Last year they looked like they wanted to be euthanized at the start of the third quarter most of the time.
by Sports2 on May 10, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree that the Bulls organization is a rudderless ship but your post was brilliantly pithy!!
A more accurate description is It has become a a teenie weenie dinghy without any oars.
If Pete Myers is on the sidelines again next year along with Adams, I don’t care how many suits they have. They should be required to sit there without any pants on so the fans who were just pantsed could feel some empathy.
What do they do next after Thibodeau signs with the Suns? Maybe Red Kerr would like to try his hand again at the helm. After all, he did get an expansion team to the playoffs in his first year, and think of how Aaron Gray would prosper when 50% of the offense would be funnelled through him..
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 10, 2008 3:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So other than Johnson and Thibodeau,
is Paxson interviewing any other candidates?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on May 10, 2008 3:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's what I'd like to know.
Who are you Anti-D’Antoni people referring to?
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was there any truth to that Izzo rumor?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on May 10, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like he was interested, but obviously he hasn't been interviewed.
Who else will Pax even look at this point? It’s basically Thibodeau, Avery (???), and then a bunch of retreads. Awesome!
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good question
especially since there hasn’t been an interview with Johnson, and Thibodeau’s “busy”. As is Michael Curry. Vacation time for Pax!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was reported that Avery rejected an offer from us?
Or was false?
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not officially false
but considering there hadn’t even been an interview it sure seems erroneous.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 10, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they put out feelers to his agent
And threw him a ballpark number. Agent says “Hell no, we won’t even consider that,” and therefore no interview takes place.
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would Johnson take a pay cut for coaching the Bulls
when he can make more money sitting on a beach in Cancun sipping pina coladas with his only headaches coming from too much sun and too much rum?
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 10, 2008 3:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Religious convictions?
Avery’s going on sabbatical for the next year. There will be opportunities for him to coach in the NBA again.
by NBA Observer on May 10, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy SH!T!!!
Now I for one was more interested in having Avery Johnson coach the Bulls than D’antoni, but it’s not like D’antoni would have been a bad option. But I am beyond infuriated with the Bulls for being cheapskates and not matching or exceeding what the Knicks spent for D’antoni. Hell, if you can throw 15 million at Ben Wallace then you can throw 6 or 7 mil at a coach. Who in the hell are we gonna end up with now? Who is Tom Thibedeau?? The only reason he’s hot now is becuase Boston won 66 games. When he was an assistant in Houston with his defensive scheme you didn’t hear his name bandied about as a being a potential head coach. We didn’t pull the trigger or the Gasol deal. We didn’t pull the trigger on several other deals. Now we didn’t pull the trigger on the D’antoni deal and Johnson has reportedly turned down what we offered him. What now? I’m beginning to despise Johnny Jumpshot. It’s killin’ me cause I’ve been a huge Paxson fan since he first came to the Bulls as a player. But I’m gettin’ sick of his shenanigans!!! And why does he insist on keeping Adams and Myers on the staff of whoever the next coach is???
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 10, 2008 4:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A disappointment but not a shock
I don’t know where this leads us, but unfortunately I think it means the team drafts Kevin Love, which is only bad in my book. Thibodeau being a Van Gundy disciple does not excite me. Avery is not a new philosophy. Mark Jackson, I guess, would be our best remaning hope?
I usually jump the gun to criticize Pax and Reinsdorf so I will restrain from doing so this time and see what the end up doing. I just hope they are intent on giving the fans competitive entertainment worth the prices they charge us. D’Antoni would have done that and would have raised the trade values of our guys.
by messwiththebull on May 10, 2008 4:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Run & Gun
Thibs cut his NBA teeth under Tark the Shark’s run-and-gun San Antonio Spurs (how did that work out?).
"It is not the same to talk of bulls as to be in the bullring." ~Spanish Proverb"
by VivaLosToros on May 11, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN's Jon Barry blasting the signing
Says D’Antoni is going from a Country Club to Riker’s Island. That the New York media will eat him alive. I gotta say I have no idea What D’Anotini is going to do in new york. Curry and Randloph are write offs. Marbury, Nate Robinson? Ha. Jamal Crawford is going to end up putting 30 FG attempts a game. The few hustle guys they have cant contribute offensively. At least he gets reunited with Q. Maybe the Bulls didnt offer enough money but I will not be surprised if D’Antoni resigns in a year. Ha.
by The90sBullsRevival on May 10, 2008 4:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I loved Barry's comments
And one should remember Phil Jackson wasn’t much of a known commidity when he was hired by the Bulls.Having success in the old CBA really didn’t mean a heck of a lot.
D’Antoni is going to have a hell of a year in NY. Randolph and Curry aren’t going anywhere. And both are suited to half court games, not running games. 7 seconds or less, that won’t be elapsed before a shot is taken, that’ll be the goal to get Randolp and/or Curry down the floor.
by KT on May 10, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
despite
how pissed i was initially, i sort of agree. do we really even want someone willing to take the NY job? and i was thinking that there was probably a good chance he would leave in a year because of how much it actually sucks.
good riddance. i’ll believe it when i see it.
i’m just pissed cause this shows how the bulls again failed to pull the trigger and created a total buzzkill on next season when it hasn’t even begun.
by Jaina on May 10, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
er
“i’ll believe it when i see it” – as in, i’ll believe he could do well in NY when i see it.
by Jaina on May 10, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to win. D'Antoni was intriguing but defense wins games.
Let’s see how the Knicks do next year.
by chgobr on May 10, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what, now its between curry, avery, and thibodeau?
i hate avery (sucks balls: cant make anything happen with two allstars and only 15 losses), ive really got no opinion on curry, but thibodeau is alright, except that a better offense wouldve been more appreciated for this team for next year. and paxson has outweighed the bad moves with the good for this organization. you pass out an opportunity to hire a [better] COY to possibly get a [non deserving] COY? you trade the possibility to get a strong offensive attack than to get a [who knows what] attack? you’d rather have an assistant than an experienced head coach [boylan]? please remind me why you did this, pax. the bulls are cheap bastards (lol dont take it too seriously, im just really pissed that dantoni is officially a “knickerbocker.”
by bulls*hit on May 10, 2008 4:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What I don't fully understand is...
I thought D’Antoni was meeting face to face with Reinsdorf this weekend. I take that to mean either today or tomorrow. If that’s the case, how far apart were the numbers to really cause him to choose NY of all places over staying in PHX or going to CHI?
If the Knicks offered $6mil and he’s currently getting $4ish then all the Bulls had to do was offer somewhere in the middle. Say $4.75-5.5mil. That’s not totally out of the realm of possibiliy of a 4 year $19-21mil deal. And accounting for the cost of living in NY vs CHI and the rosters of each team why would anyone choose NY over CHI?
The Bulls offer must have been really, really, really low. In the 4 year $16mil range.
by CubFan81 on May 10, 2008 4:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i thought that too
and if d’antoni accepted the knicks’ offer before meeting with reinsdorf, that’s just bad form. however this article seems to indicate that the meeting with reinsdorf actually happened yesterday.
by Jaina on May 10, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with almost everything you just said...
But FYI the “cost of living” argument doesn’t really apply to the obscenely wealthy.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on May 10, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 mil/yr for 4 years
Is a lot, especially for a guy who hasn’t really won anything big. Basically what this comes down to, now that I’ve cooled off a bit, is that D’Antoni is a money-grubber. In that case, did we even really want this guy? I hope NY is a disaster for the next 4 years.
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was reported the Bulls offered the same amount to D'Antoni that he was making in Phoenix
Talk about making a coach really want to jump at an offer with an incentive like this. Couldn’t they have at least kicked it up from $4,25 million to $5? The answer of course is NO WAY, not when they think they can low ball Thibodeau at $2. Since Pax is so hung up on defense, maybe he can use his business savvy to get the corpse back by offering him another 5 years at only $10 million per annum as long as they throw in Tyrus Thomas to sweeten the deal for the Cavs.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 10, 2008 5:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Out of town for 2 days
AND THIS IS WHAT I COME HOME TO???? But, hey I hope D’Antoni has great fun integrating 2 more Shaq-clones into his offense on a team that has no pass-first PG, streaky as hell shooters, several poor-conditioned athletes. Oh, but they have David Lee, that’s gotta count for something!
If I hear Avery’s pip-squeaked voice at a press conference, with Paxson saying this was “his guy all along”, I promise to write many uber-cynical comments about it!!!!!
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 10, 2008 6:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think I'm more disappointed just to not have things wrapped up,
than specifically about not getting D’Antoni. It would have been nice just to have everything settled. I do think he would have been a good choice, but I’m not convinced that he was the only good choice. And I also think it’s going to be pretty entertaining to watch what happens in Knicks-land next season.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 10, 2008 6:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Finally
Someone who truly understands…im with you on that. I really wanted to get d’antoni, so i could just start thinking of what the next move should be. Its quite boring to wait until “step 1: Hire New Coach” takes place. I truly cant say which coaches are good or worth getting and which are not, however, pretty much all the coaches who are available are either rejected by thier teams, or “has been” great coaches. Thibedeau intrigues me more and more especially after watching the defensive plays that the Celtics have hit Team Lebron with, plus if/when he is available it wont be because he sucks and no one wnats him, but because its time for him to make his mark on the nba with his own team. For that reason he more then any other coach would have passion and desire and direction with our team. But I cant speak or understand coaches and thier minds, so i hope paxson makes a great decision.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 10, 2008 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine this keeps Gordon here.
Gordon isn’t the savior, but he’s the team leading scorer. I think D’Antoni would have kept him here by default. I think it will take A LOT of work from whomever the new coach is.
Of course, I’m trying to play pscyhologist and probably talking out of my ass, so whatever.
by tyger1147 on May 10, 2008 6:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chad Ford's article in ESPN.com says it all.
I may have to change my sign-in from Tyrusmancrush to Paxsonisanidiot after Ford’s cogent commentary summed up everything that is wrong with this Mickey Mouse, chickenshit organization.
They spend so much time trying to be in the catbird seat, they wind up with nothing but bird droppings once again. The Knicks showed him some love while the Bulls showed him there are more horses asses than there are horses.
Read it and weep.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DAntoni-Knicks-080510
Tyger1147, if you really could actually talk out of your ass, you would probably be hired by Reinsdork in a millisecond as the Bulls PR representative because you would be speaking their language.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 10, 2008 6:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I did read it
And came to the conclusion that Ford should go talk to Jon Barry. Nate Robinson? Geesh. Richardson best days are over. That team is going to stink for a few more years.
by KT on May 10, 2008 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That article makes Ford look like an idiot.
That “decent core” of the Knicks he lists is awful.
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad I cancelled my season tickets
This is the most profitable team in the NBA, so money shouldn’t have even been an issue. I don’t want to hear the spin that “Paxson wasn’t sold on D’Antoni” – if he wasn’t, then why did they even pursue him? They didn’t get him for one reason and one reason only – money. I’ve spent more than enough of my money on this franchise, so I’ll let some other sucker take my place.
by Big D on May 10, 2008 6:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did someone report that
Paxson was torn, since d’antoni did seem like an exciting prospect but the idea that his own philosophies would not be revealed in d’antoni’s play? Im sure of course that money has much to do with it, but its hard to say the money would be well worth it. Its hard to tell what decision is the best for the franchise, and its alot easier from a fans point of view, especially when we have the ability of hindsight (or in this, when we will have the ability of hindsight)
On the other hand i guess we (or least just i am) are really hoping that thibedeau does want to leave boston and coach. IT would be a shame if he decided to remain an assistant….
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 10, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure they would have had to pursue him to know if they were sold on him.
You know, ask him, “So what is all that crap about you not caring about defense? Is that for real?” That kind of stuff.
by tyger1147 on May 10, 2008 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, I think it's perfectly reasonable to think their philosophies didn't agree.
I’m not sure I buy it, but I think it’s possible. What are the two things Paxson preaches above all else (um… even winning)? Accountability and defense. What are the two things that caused D’Antonini to reportedly fall out of favor with Kerr? Not keeping players accountable and not devoting enough practice time to defense.
Again, I’m not sure I buy that. And I certainly don’t value those things in the order it seems Paxson does, though.
I think, either way—money or philosophy, it probably shows a part of incompetence on the Bulls.
by tyger1147 on May 10, 2008 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's safe to assume Paxson would like the Bulls to score too
D’Antoni doesn’t run a balanced system. Neither did Skiles, so why pay 6 million per year for half a strategy?
by hscs on May 10, 2008 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you got me on that.
But your statements are losing conviction (as if they ever had any) and becoming vague witticisms. Or attempts at it anyway.
by tyger1147 on May 10, 2008 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does this signal about next year?
Does this mean that Pax is back to rebuilding. The one thing about a D’Antoni hire is that you would think the players would be excited about playing again, and maybe that translates into better effort on D if D’Antoni has any sense at all. But if you’re Pax and you don’t think this team has a shot, then you don’t spend big on a coach. And if you’re rebuilding, anybody can be moved. I think I might have been premature about not shuffling the roster at this point.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 10, 2008 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or maybe D'Antoni really doesn't waste time on D
who knows…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 10, 2008 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A great question
Cause if Paxson thinks this team doesnt have it, then sure, don’t hire D’Antoni. But then you know what, that means Paxson has failed and deserves to get canned. We think we’re in trouble now? Wait till next year when Ben and Deng want big money,Bulls won’t pay it and they walk away for nothing. It seems the trouble is far from over
by The90sBullsRevival on May 10, 2008 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't entirely agree with that since this is still the youngest team
in the league. Until a guy like TT gets a lot closer to realizing his potential, they aren’t really contenders anyway, so why not take a step back and bring in somebody to develop the young guys.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 10, 2008 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Canning Paxson solves nothing
if it’s Reinsdorf who dropped the ball on Pau, Kobe, and D’Antoni. I suspect Pax had to have been the fall guy in at least two of these deals because it’s hard to believe he’d be that much of a coward to cling onto his precious assets that have devalued themselves in just one season.
by messwiththebull on May 11, 2008 6:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If BG and Deng
don’t play any better next season than they did this season, “big money” won’t be an issue.
by sue369 on May 11, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh
It’s not like we really know what goes on. I don’t see the folly in Pax being skeptical, or the Bulls not matching/exceeding a monster offer from the Knicks. D’Antoni could very well be fool’s gold, and even if he isn’t, his philosophy isn’t sound.
I think Walsh signed a 3 year deal with the Knicks, and he’s pretty old. My conspiracy theory is he can just mail it in with D’Antoni getting the Knicks to .500 or so 1 or 2 times over the next 3 seasons. Or James Dolan read the leaflet of that 7 seconds book, and had to have D’Antoni. That’s 2 theories!
by hscs on May 10, 2008 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who out there has a "sound philosophy"
- Can D’Antoni coach defense?
- Is Avery Johnson’s screaming maniac, “I’m still the point guard of my team and I’m gonna call every play on every possession act going to work outside the NCAA”?
- Carlisle, Van Gundy, Collins… ick.
- Thibby has no experience being in charge of anything, and for all we know is just as lop sided as D’Antoni was speculated to be.
Plenty of other long shot guys out there too, but again, we don’t know.
What we do know is Paxson liked D’Antoni enough to make an offer. If he was skeptical and yet still wiling to make an offer what does that say about him?
D’Antoni wasn’t flawed, but he seemed to have some enthusiasm for this team and a vision of how to use it. Which, at this point, is more than I’ve seen from anyone else.
by Sports2 on May 10, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't argue he wasn't the perceived best candidate
But that doesn’t mean the Bulls should have paid as much as the Knicks. His philosophy isn’t sound because it’s entirely on one end of the court. I consider that a major flaw. Popovich, Jackson, George Karl, Rick Adelman, and Flip Saunders have all coached far more balanced teams. They’re just not looking for jobs.
We don’t know whether the Bulls made an offer, or simply sent word to D’Antoni that they wouldn’t match the Knicks. When I said skeptical, I meant skeptical of making a major commitment to a system and coach who may not get the Bulls anywhere. If things don’t work out, that’s a lot of money tied up in the coach, and possible roster moves made to satisfy a purely offensive system. Why risk so much on the best retread in a summer of underwhelming retreads?
by hscs on May 11, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a third:
The Knicks dropped a wad of cash on Walsh because it buys them instant credibility with the real basketball talent out there (as opposed to the fake basketball talent already in the organization).
In other words, the entire reason they brought Walsh on was because without “changing the culture”, they’d get stiffed from every big coach and free agent (or free agent’s agent). How many draft picks would even be excited playing in New York?
But Walsh gives them that one guy that they can point out who isn’t just another New York City asshole. They can always say, “Yes, we have put together a horrible team and front office, but look at Donnie Walsh… At least he’s ok, right?”
As far as I’m concerned Walsh just earned every penny of his contract by enticing D’Antoni.
Now they have to buy out about $150 million worth of contracts….
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 10, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I think Walsh is a New Yorker. So he is another New York City “asshole.”
Just got back from a wedding in Dumbo (a neighborhood in Brooklyn) on a rooftop overlooking the East River and the Manhattan skyline. Beautiful. The groom’s family is from Ohio and the father of the groom gave a speech about never imagining speaking to so many New Yorkers. The New Yorkers were sitting there like “Hey, we’re regular people too!” New Yorkers get a bum rap sometimes.
Ahem, to the point. I got home and read the D’Antoni news. Total travesty. The Bulls should be embarrassed. D’Antoni would have been a great fit, a great palette cleanser, and a great rejuvenator.
As for D’Antoni, if he can turn the Knicks into a winner, I will be impressed.
As for the Bulls, I agree with other posters that the limbo is incredibly frustrating, particularly because it seems like it has been going on since Jesus’ birthday.
Screw it, get Izzo on the phone. Or maybe Thibodeau with a Shaw/Cleamons triangle guy running O (who is it on here who loves the tri?) Maybe its mostly nostagia, but that offense is a thing of beauty when its clicking.
One last time for my hopeful Obama sig and then it goes the way of the dodo, the Edsel, the dinosaur . . .
Yes we can. Yes we can hire D'Antoni. Yes we can.
Scoing 109 points/game is change we can believe in.
by preverbal on May 10, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's another New Yorker, maybe,
but still, not “just another New York City asshole” in terms of basketball. ;)
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 11, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know.
I see a huge difference between being intrigued and willing to take a chance on something you aren’t quite sure about at one price, but not being willing to do so for half that price over again. I don’t see why you would expect Pax and Reinsdorf to jump into a price war and pay more than they ever intended to for a product they have doubts about. It’s easy for us to say, but they’re the ones stuck with the mess if it doesn’t work out.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 10, 2008 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What was there to not be sure about?
D’Antoni’s been the head coach of one of the highest profile teams in the league for the past 4 seasons. There’s not much about his philosophy that’s a secret. If they really wanted him, they should have made him enough of an offer to ensure that they would hire him (since the Bulls make more of a profit than every other NBA team – including the Knicks!). If they weren’t sold on him, then they shouldn’t have wasted their time interviewing him and making him a half-assed offer. If Paxson really “isn’t sure” about what direction he wants to go in with a new head coach, maybe he ought to quit and let a GM who’s more sure of himself make the hire, because this “I’ll take my time” approach is getting ridiculous. The Bulls job isn’t so good that coaches are going to sit on their asses for months waiting for Paxson to make up his mind.
by Big D on May 10, 2008 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be the whole defensive side of the equation
And I don’t think being able to see a coaching candidate’s pros and cons is at all the same thing as not knowing what you want.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 10, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not a secret either
He doesn’t worry too much about defense, everyone knows that. Why do you think Phoenix was willing to let him leave? If that was really the Bulls top priority (which it shouldn’t be, since their offense is a much bigger problem), they wouldn’t have even talked to D’Antoni. But they did make him an offer, and lost simply because they didn’t offer enough money. I don’t care how the Bulls spin it – if they really weren’t “sold” on D’Antoni, why would they have even offered him the head coaching job? The only reason they didn’t get him is because of money; don’t let anyone tell you differently.
by Big D on May 11, 2008 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If, in your world, the only options available are "sold" and "not sold"
then we’re just going to keep disagreeing. There’s always going to be an element of liking this guy at a certain price and some other guy at a different price.
But if it makes you feel better, Jay Mariotti totally agrees with you.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 11, 2008 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know there was a salary cap on coaches
If the Bulls have one, it’s self-imposed. That means they didn’t get him because Reinsdorf wasn’t willing to pony up the money. Funny how other big market teams like the Lakers and Knicks don’t seem to have those self-imposed caps (and no, the Knicks haven’t lost BECAUSE they’ve spent a lot of money, they’ve lost because they’ve spent the money poorly. If they spent the money wisely, not caring about the luxury tax would be an incredible advantage).
And fuck Jay Mariotti. You want to argue with me, argue with the stuff that I write. Don’t hold me accountable for stuff that other people write.
by Big D on May 11, 2008 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KC is reporting
that D’Antoni accepted before even hearing the bulls offer. So it sounds like D’Antoni was only interested in the dollar amount and not the opportunity.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 11, 2008 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
err..
... if he was only interested in the dollar amount he would have listened to the Bulls’ offer.
The sequence KC describes makes it pretty sound as if he got so tired of Paxson and Reinsdorf hemming and hawing that he just said screw it and decided no offer was gonna be worth putting up with them :)
by Sports2 on May 11, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right on Big D.
If enough fed up fans follow suit, maybe they will finally get the message that we’ve had enough and aren’t going to take it anymore.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 10, 2008 6:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Paul Silas ?
i know he’s a bit of a grinder in the Skiles mode, but you gotta do due diligence and interview him since he is actively looking for a job.
he’s won everywhere he’s been, hasn’t he?
what about Del Harris. Lenny Wilkens?
i dunno, i’m shocked at this turn of events.
hopefully Thibs is the next Zen Master…
by Orlando Woolridge on May 10, 2008 7:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Silas
and I’ve already mentioned him a couple of times. Seems like a very good player coach, with good player development skills too.
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on May 11, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have on interest in Silas
too ‘old school’, and more importantly too proud of naming himself as such.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least
now when the knicks suck we can say we jammed them again by driving up the price on D’Antoni.
Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person
by 234L on May 10, 2008 8:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now that is
optimism!
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 10, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think this might signal the arrival of LeBron in NY?
LeBron’s game would be a perfect fit in D’Antoni’s offense. Plus they have all the Olympic time spent together, which I’ll assume has been positive. If Walsh can clear out the crap on the team in the next 2 years and start assembling LeBron’s supporting cast, I think the red carpet will be rolling out for LBJ in 10/11 and he’ll be walking down it. This is a scary thought for the Bulls.
by kig on May 10, 2008 8:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lebron's game...
would be a “perfect fit” in any coach’s offense (he’s one of the best players alive), except of course the one currently employed by Mike Brown – everyone stand around while Lebron holds the ball 30 feet from the rim.
by fundamentallysound on May 10, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude's going to Jersey with Hova.
Book it.
by Illini15 on May 10, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
All I have to say is
I’M DYING OF NOT SURPRISE!!!!
So sad… So disappointed… These guys know Defense, all they need (well, not all) is a coach to tach them how to score better. I sure hope Pax has a very reliable plan B.
Blogabull... So Fresh and so Clean Clean!
by Goostafer on May 10, 2008 9:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was expecting...
...these finish since the day 1 that D’Antoni was talked for the Bulls. Evrytime we have a opportunity to bring up a great guy – remember Kobe or Gasol -, Pax fucks everything. Besides firing Boylan, what was the last thing he made right????
Maybe he’s the problem of this organization…
BOYLAN IS GONE, NOW IT'S TIME TO GET RID OF HUGHES
by bull83 on May 10, 2008 9:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
See ya, Pax
It’s not that D’Antoni was definitely the best option; it’s possible Thibodeau or Mark Jackson could end up being really good. It’s that signing D’Antoni to a big contract would’ve signalled that we’re going for a championship.
If we bring in a Thibodeau, that signals that we’re a few years away. That we can still afford to play sub-par, because we don’t have a superstar and we’re still a young team. If we make the playoffs next year as a #6 seed under Thibodeau, that’s a success. And that really disappoints me.
Pax did some good things with the Bulls. He made some smart, conservative picks early on (Hinrich, Gordon, Deng), and took some chances with more athletic players later (Tyrus, Thabo). He even made the ballsy move of signing Ben Wallace, which I liked because at least Paxson went for it.
After Wallace though, I don’t know. The Hinrich signing, the Nocioni signing, the falling-through of Garnett, Pau, and Kobe, the fudged offers to Deng and Gordon, the hiring of Boylan, and the refusal to make Boylan play Tyrus… all together, it was too many bad mistakes.
Now, this team has no direction. We have no top-75 players, we have no cap space, we have no extra draft picks, and we have no coach. The same team that had all the necessary assets to trade for a Kevin Garnett now has no assets and no playoff berth, and it’s all on Pax.
by YaoPau on May 10, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We still don't know what exactly happened.
And no, I’m not talking about the entire John Paxson era. I’m talking about the moment-to-moment details of the negotiations between the Bulls, D-Ant and the Knicks.
I would have loved for D-Ant to have come to preach offense at the United and Berto Centers. But the outcome does not mean that the Bulls were being shitty negotiators, or irrational. In fact, if the Fleecing of New York episodes (Crawford, Curry) told us anything, it was that Pax was a pretty shrewd negotiator. And that the Knicks will overpay for other people’s problems.
My initial disappointment was due to the fact that we (we here means I) want Pax and Reinsdorf to drop millions, make a big splash, instantly improve the offense and tell NYC to suck it all in one fell swoop. I would have loved that.
But at their core, Reinsdorf and Pax had a game plan, and that was to be open-minded about the new coach, interview candidates, and work toward a reasonable offer without engaging in a bidding war.
I’m still disappointed that Reinsdorf himself isn’t more open to becoming an offensive juggernaut type of guy, but unfortunately, that’s not who he is.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 10, 2008 10:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"But at their core, Reinsdorf and Pax had a game plan . . ."
What makes you think that?
by Big D on May 10, 2008 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw it in a news story about the decision-making process.
I hope it was more “news” and less “story”. Who knows… (shrug)
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 11, 2008 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I question
whether fleecing Isiah Thomas proves you’re a shrewd negotiator.
And hey, maybe you’re right that this wasn’t a case of Paxson being a shitty negotiator. He was battling the Knicks here, and it’s hard to battle a team with that much money.
Because it was also hard to get Garnett… but the Celtics managed to do it with less resources. And it was hard to get Gasol too… but the Lakers managed to do it with less resources. It’s easy for Paxson to say “I didn’t want to give up our core” or “Memphis wasn’t looking for expiring contracts at the time” or “we are keeping our coaching options open” ... but at the end of the day, we’ve got nothing. Shitty negotiator or not, our team is shitty, mostly because there’s always excuse for why he isn’t taking a risk to land a big name. At some point, Paxson’s conservatism is as indefensible as every superstar he failed to get.
by YaoPau on May 10, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, now that we've heard what Pax
had to say after being spurned (here) I actually feel like I’m the one who’s being fleeced by the Bulls.
Hey, I know! Let’s make it seem like we were the victims again here! Just like in the Garnett and Gasol almost-trades, where we would have offered more but just weren’t given the chance…
I’m John Paxson. Can you feel my indignation?
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 11, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Paxson is "shrewd?"
Paxson took advantage of Isiah Thomas a couple times – join the club.
What else has he done that’s “shrewd?”
Resigning Hinrich and Nocioni while bidding against himself? Not shrewd.
Wallace? Don’t even get me started.
Trading JR Smith for a 2nd rounder?
Trading Chandler for an expiring contract that he never found a way to use?
Refusing to part with Deng to acquire Gasol? The same Luol Deng who can’t even create his own shot in the NBA?
Then, this past season, not convincing Reinsdorf that acquiring Gasol will, yes, push the Bulls into the Lux Tax territory but is the best chance BY FAR that the Bulls have had to address the most glaring need on the team with a young, legitimate All Star?
Paxson’s “shrewdness” has killed this team. YaoPau’s 100% correct that the Bulls have gone from the team with all the young talent, draft picks, and cap space to the team with none of that.
by Jobu on May 10, 2008 11:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Andres Nocioni: 5 years, $38 million
But no, no way can we offer D’Antoni $5 or $6 million a year. I guess a coach is less valuable than a backup small forward. Anyone who actually believes that after sitting through 50+ games of the Jim Boylan era has a very short memory.
by Big D on May 11, 2008 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I try to ignore these things when thinking of Paxson
because all these things do is make me very angry. As much as I hate to do it because hindsight it easy, take out the deals with Isiah, and Paxson looks like he’s in Kevin McHale territory. You had four opportunities to make a franchise impacting transaction and you pussed out on all four. I can see missing out on two, three, maybe, but to miss out on all four is either the sign of indecision, risk aversion to the point of cowardice, or by a complete bottom-line driven philosophy.
This team operates under the same small-market mindset that the White Sox do. I wonder why that is.
by messwiththebull on May 11, 2008 6:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I apparently remain clueless on how to respond to a post. Please help me.
I thought all I had to do is to click on reply under the post I am addressing and it will magically appear under it. What am I missing? because that is what I’m doing.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 11, 2008 1:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe you.
click the reply button. it has a ’+’ next to it. A box will come up for you to put the comment in. god speed.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: Jobu and Big D Cut Pax some slack
Have you forgotten he was the one who signed Adrian Griffen, Cedric Simmons and Victor Khryapa? Talk about value. The combined salaries of all that talent would barely be enough to pay for one year’s salary ($5.2 million) of D’Antoni.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 11, 2008 1:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pax-Man is DONE
to me.
or is he? he is just a pawn in THE CHAIRMAN’s GAME
but they both have LIFETIME APPOINTMENTS.
so w’re fucked.
by Orlando Woolridge on May 11, 2008 4:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a fucking disaster (sorry about the language)...
Paxson is indeed Angelo, is this city cursed or what? Paxson has lost the plot…
a.) Choosing that corpse Wallace over Chandler
b.) Choosing Tyrus over LaMarcus
c.) Chickening out when we had the opportunity to trade for KG, Pau & Kobe…
... but this is the final straw. Are you kidding me? We couldn’t make a better offer to D’Antoni who was desperate to come to Chicago? I seriously do not think there is a future for this organisation with this imbecile in charge.
FIRE PAXSON NOW…
The No 1 Chi -Town sports fan in Europe!
by Vangelis on May 11, 2008 6:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It appears Paxson was ready to make an offer
The Sun-Times reports that Paxson was about to make a counter-offer.
Paxson’s words -
‘I felt the meeting [last Sunday] went very well and felt we connected on many things philosophically,’’ Paxson said. ’’On Tuesday, Jerry and I met. Because of our strong interest, Jerry was eager to meet with Mike personally, which happened Friday.’‘Reinsdorf hoped to meet again Saturday, Paxson said.
’’[On Saturday] morning, Jerry and I spoke and agreed that Mike was a good fit,’’ Paxson said. ’’I placed a call to his agent [Warren LeGarie]. Jerry wanted to meet with Mike again and talk about a deal. Unfortunately, we were never given an opportunity to make an offer of any kind, which is the most disappointing thing.
’’I thought it would have been fair to listen to what we had to say, but at the end of the day, we simply weren’t given the opportunity to do so. I now will continue to search for the proper fit for our current roster.’‘
by chgobr on May 11, 2008 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cry me a fucking river
Good grief. Is he really complaining about unfairness? What fucking planet is this guy on.
by Sports2 on May 11, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he would've been better off lying
and saying he wasn’t a good fit. This make them really seem like amateurs.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, what a telling statement
For any of those who were unclear about the dynamics of the Bulls, this really confirms life as I remembered it as a Buls fan from way back. This is Reinsdorf’s team, period. Notice that all of the talk coming out of NY is re Donnie Walsh’s actions. Pax was doing the legwork, but the actual negotiation was all on Reinsdorf, and D’Antoni’s response was to not even bother hearing it. Apparently only one party felt the meeting went well Fri between JD and MD.
by California Al on May 11, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he didnt have time?
he had a week to make an offer!!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on May 11, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the point
He wasn’t the one to make or not make the offer. If I was D’Antoni’s agent, I wouldn’t be too impressed with Reinsodrf’s history with the Bulls. He inherited MJ, and I think there are 20 posters on this site who could have GM’d that era. It seems evident now that JD probably had a huge role in the 2006 offseason choices that f’d up everything that YayPao brought up.
by California Al on May 11, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Despite the bumbling of this recruitment I am not convinced D'Antoni was the right man for our team.
New York is not unanimously jumping for joy regarding D’Antoni’s hire. Has he succeeded without Nash?
D’Antoni’s system is predicated on putting the ball in the care of Steve Nash. Let’s get real. I know Nash is an easy mark defensively, but the two-time NBA MVP was D’Antoni’s system in Phoenix (abetted by Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and a host of lethal 3-point snipers), same as Tim Duncan has been the Spurs’ system for 11 seasons.
by chgobr on May 11, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love is all there is and Riensdorf is unloveable
I still think ESPN insider T. J. Ford nailed it although some disagree. Here are some excerpts:
One of Walsh’s first big moves… show he’s going to walk the walk. Walsh has lured Mike D’Antoni to the Knicks—an improbable home run that could immediately turn the fortunes of a franchise in desperate need of optimism. D’Antoni will bring a pedigree of exciting, winning basketball that should inject new life into a tired Knicks franchise.
Scoring D’Antoni wasn’t easy for New York. Chicago, with a group of young, talented athletes, appeared to be a great fit for D’Antoni, and HE WANTED TO WORK IT OUT WITH THE BULLS. The team appeared to be a great coach away from returning to its status as a contender in the East.
How did Walsh pull off the coup of the year? By using his 20-plus years of experience as a GM to woo D’Antoni. There’s a reason many of his peers consider Walsh the best GM in the league.
Walsh knows coaches want to be loved. He knew D’Antoni was coming off a bad breakup with a GM who questioned his defensive chops and wondered aloud whether D’Antoni’s style could win championships.
More than money or security, D’Antoni was looking for a boss who believed in him—the same way his former boss, Bryan Colangelo, believed. Walsh understood that, and that gave him an advantage in the recruiting process.
While Walsh’s counterpart in Chicago, John Paxson, hedged and asked D’Antoni to consider hiring a veteran defensive coach, Walsh was decisive. He let D’Antoni know that he was a big fan and wanted the coach to bring the same excitement to New York that he brought to Phoenix.
Walsh told D’Antoni he was committed to giving him the players he needs to succeed. He even went through each player on the roster with his coach-to-be, discussing who would be a good fit and who wouldn’t.
Walsh was a true believer. The Bulls, at times, acted like they needed to be convinced.
Obviously money played a big part in the wooing of D’Antoni as well. The Bulls were hesitant to offer D’Antoni a big deal, while the Knicks came right away with a big offer, reported to be $24 million for four years—another sign that they were committed, long term, to what D’Antoni was going to bring…....”The money and years were important,” said one veteran NBA agent with knowledge of the situation. “But it’s also what the money and years represent. For a coach looking to be embraced, it says, ‘We want you and we want you badly.’ Sometimes that’s all they need hear. Coaches need a relationship with management to succeed. Mike felt like he could work with Donnie.”
D’Antoni’s arrival now gives the Knicks AN IDENTITY TO BUILD AROUND. Look for Walsh to be aggressive in the coming months and years in finding players - particularly long athletes and jump shooters - to fit D’Antoni’s up-tempo, high-efficiency style. (LIKE THE BULLS ALREADY HAVE!)
Walsh now has yet another big chip in the game when it comes to wooing free agents….players also love playing for Mike D’Antoni. They love to get up and down the floor. They love coaches WHO TREAT THEM LIKE ADULTS and give them the freedom to play.
Meanwhile, the Bulls, ONCE AGAIN, ARE ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN. ONCE AGAIN, THE STORY IS ABOUT THE ONE WHO GOT AWAY. Over the past several years, a series of high-profile players, from Kevin Garnett to Pau Gasol to Kobe Bryant, were rumored to be on their way to Chicago. In each case, it appears the Bulls’ indecision and aversion to risk hampered their ability to pursue a game-changing deal.
Losing D’Antoni could be another big blow in Paxson’s quest to turn the Bulls into a title contender. D’Antoni, AS LONG AS HE GOT COOPERATION FROM MANAGEMENT, HAD WHAT IT TOOK TO SAVE THE BULLS. There are other coaches who can run the team. But none of them can bring to Chicago the cachet, excitement or offensive system D’Antoni would have.
So in Chicago, many questions remain about the viability of the Bulls’ roster, the direction the franchise is heading and what to do about their free agents. Meanwhile, the Knicks are announcing loud and clear how they intend to turn around the franchise.
Thanks again Jerry. You, who arrogantly considers yourself to be the king of deal makers, has done it again. You have negotiated the Bulls into another raw deal. Instead of being the King, you have become the Joker, except nobody is laughing.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 11, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean Chad Ford, heh
and….link and quote man, link and quote.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know
you guys are all bagging on paxson for this. but consider:
1) it’s not like NY acted right away, either. they waited (almost) the equal amount of time before making an offer (since i know at least by fri, they hadn’t made an offer)
2) it seems like they (d’antoni+ agent) knew an offer was coming from the bulls, and didn’t wait for it
and his agent said it wasn’t about the money (from the trib article, not suntimes), which screams of complete bullshit to begin with. probably accepted it knowing it would be more money than the bulls would offer, though who knows by how much.
he sees “new york as a great challenge,” well, have fun with that d’antoni, good riddance. to me that’s just a jerk move to not have even given us the courtesy of a counter offer, even if he really was “emotionally tied to new york” at that point. it makes me wonder about anyone who actually is willing to coach the knicks – do i want them as coach? i think i was just the most pissed because i wanted the coaching search to be over and done with.
by Jaina on May 11, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Sports2's take
above:
The sequence KC describes makes it pretty sound as if he got so tired of Paxson and Reinsdorf hemming and hawing that he just said screw it and decided no offer was gonna be worth putting up with them :)
I don’t think it was just money, but the fact that Walsh was likely willing to give D’Antoni way more control, and have no reservations about it.
And besides, what happened to the ‘bring it on’ tough guy talk saying they wouldn’t get in a bidding war with New York? Well congrats to them, as they certainly didn’t.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good article by Stein
here.
Points out that Reinsdorf really is the one to blame, not pax. thought that was interesting.
by Jaina on May 11, 2008 10:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He's always loved negotiating
And he’s always been the final negotiator for the Bulls. The organization has a reputation for very hard, painful contract negotiations, although I figured it was more Krause than Reinsdorf.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 11, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this paragraph:
Paxson said in a club statement Saturday night that the Bulls were denied an opportunity to make a formal offer in the morning before D’Antoni committed to the Knicks. But who said they had to wait all week when New York’s rising interest was well-known for more than 48 hours?
makes everything Pax said in his statement last night ring hollow, just as everything he has said publicly in 2008 has rung about as false as false can be.
i remember hearing an interview with him back in January, and he was getting all pissy with the interviewer after he asked him a legit question.
not giving TT starter’s minutes down the stretch this year?
laughable.
this franchise?
laughable.
by Orlando Woolridge on May 11, 2008 11:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Paxson
must really dislike his job as Jerry’s personal assistant and right hand coffee runner?
by exult463 on May 11, 2008 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seeing that we couldn't even drop an opening bid for D'Antoni
is just pathetic. I’ll be OK with Thibodeau, but I’d rather be the focus of attention with the hiring of an unorthodox winning coach that’s already helmed a team than the team coached by a guy long known to be a head coaching candidate.
by NBA Observer on May 11, 2008 11:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What happens if Thibodeau decides to go somewhere else?
Just as Boylan was Skiles “coffee runner”, it appears as if Paxson is Riensdork’s lap dog and he is on a very short leash. But all is not lost. Maybe if the offer is sweet enough, ex-Bull Jimmy Collins may consider jumping from UIC to the Bulls, so they can keep it in the family. As Jaina pointed out, from Stein’s article. Big Jerry calls the shots and lately, his shots are about as accurate as a Ben Wallace free throw.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 11, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phoenix might be interested in Thibodeau now
And considering that they’re out from under D’Antoni’s contract now, they can probably outbid the Bulls.
by Big D on May 11, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a very unpleasant thought
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 11, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel fairly certain Phoenix is interested in Thibodeau.
It just seems to make too much sense.
by tyger1147 on May 11, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not quite sure
this is a team with Shaq, Nash, Amare…they’d likely want to make sure it’s someone that commands respect. Or at least a better guarantee of such, even if it means retread.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But there's no one who fits that description out there
After the way Doug Collins flamed out in every one of his previous jobs, you really think Shaq would respect him? What other moderately successful retreads are even out there? Paul Silas? Del Harris?
by Big D on May 11, 2008 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
word is they may
just hire someone from within the organization then. At least then even if they don’t have the resume, they would have the support of management enough to assume some kind of authority.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah....it's Chad Ford, sorry.
I dream of point guards someday coming to the Bulls, so this must have been a Freudian slip. It was a long article with lots of Knicks stuff and I only wanted to highlight the portions that pertained to the Bulls. But it has become obvious, it there is a finger of blame to be pointed, it should be pointed directly at the chairman.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 11, 2008 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well, if you like PGs....
it looks like Mully and co. have low-balled Baron Davis.
I could see them cutting ties with this guy in the off-season and moving on without him.
http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_9217881?nclick_check=1
imagine if we could have gotten Mike D. and B. Diddy.
by Orlando Woolridge on May 11, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
B-Diddly is one bad day
away from sitting the season with an injury.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 11, 2008 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gah! hit reply!
‘highlight’ using the ”” button. link using the hyperlink button.
Come on man.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im still mad about this...
i think we should have made an offer earlier because we knew he would get one from the knicks as well.
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 11, 2008 12:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I owe Reinsdorf and Paxson an apology
I had been under impression that they got outbid by the Knicks, but apparently they never even bothered to make an offer. So they’re not cheap – they’re incompetent instead. I mean, if you want to hire a head coach, I’m pretty sure you have to actually offer him the job and a contract. Poor D’Antoni probably didn’t even think the Bulls wanted to hire him, since they had met with him for a week without making a job offer.
And the people faulting D’Antoni for not waiting for a Bulls offer are just wrong. What would have happened if he didn’t accept the Knicks offer, the Bulls continued to dither around, and the Knicks decided to hire Mark Jackson in the meantime? D’Antoni would have had to hope the Bulls would offer him a good contract (and he would have had no negotiating leverage), or go back to the Suns and wait to get bought out/fired in the summer. Most coaches are going to take the first acceptable offer they get, for fear of being left without a job. If the Bulls can’t figure that out, they’re going to lose out on several more coaches before this is over.
by Big D on May 11, 2008 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
reinsdorf
apparently wanted to meet with d’antoni again on saturday. and reports were that the bulls were going to make an offer by sunday. he could have easily told new york “wait until tomorrow for my decision” without putting his status with them in jeopardy.
they may be incompetent, as i agree they totally fucked this up. but to say d’antoni shouldn’t have waited even a day for a counteroffer from the bulls, is simply not right. when i got a job offer i had 30 days to accept and i waited it out to weigh my options. not saying he needed 30 days, but probably just one more day and it would have been settled whether chicago’s offer was anything near new york’s.
by Jaina on May 11, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe NY won the game of chicken
telling D’Antoni the offer was limited as they always had Mark Jackson as a fallback.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
somehow
i can’t imagine they’d say, you have to respond now or you lose the job. seems like they wanted him more than that. don’t know, and who knows if we ever really will know.
by Jaina on May 11, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they could've been nicer
like “we’d like a response quickly because we can’t wait around forever”. Then he gets a voicemail from Pax telling him “the chairman wants a 5th meeting, sometime this week, maybe not, ya know I hate these ‘constraints’ and ‘timetables’, just like, lets find a coach ya know? Gotta call Avery now, bye”.
Then D’Antoni realizes which one is behaving like they actually want him.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
again, circumstances we may never know. the thing is, i’m really not trying to excuse the behavior of the bulls. it still pisses me off. but i still think he should have waited at least for the counteroffer (or at least like 1 day since that was the supposed time the bulls were going to make an offer) even if his mind had been made up cause it still makes him look a like a bit of a jackass. that’s all.
by Jaina on May 11, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls balked
he met with both paxson and jerry and neither one of them even mentioned an offer? that really doesnt make sense if reports about Jerry coming away from the friday meeting impressed. seems like he would have made an offer then, its not as if he needs anybody else’s approval. it is unlikely that he went into the friday meeting without a contract in mind. The business about not getting a chance to make an offer makes the Bulls look incompetent. Honestly I dont really blame D’Antoni when u look at the respective rosters. Bulls are the bottom of the barrel once again and they aren’t going to be able to attract big name talent here (coaching or otherwise) until they start spending money. unfortunately Jerry seems content to make big profits and pocket them instead of reinvesting in our beloved bulls
Super Bowl XLI MVP Rex Grossman
Chicago Bulls Captain and Starting Point Guard Kirk Hinrich...
Same Person
by 234L on May 11, 2008 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The reason the Bulls look incompetent, 234L, is because they are.
The chairman knew D’Antoni wanted to coach the Bulls, so he was determined to show him that he did not have them over a barrel in negotiating a deal, indicating they had more interviews to do before making a final decision. In other words, the Chief Dufus thought he could squeeze him into a lower contract bid by playing hardball, or should I say, hard to get. He thought that by delaying the process a little longer, D’Antoni would eventually come, panting at his feet for the opportunity to coach in Chicago and then Reinsdork would capitulate by offering a decent contract, possibly with less years guaranteed or less money or both. Jerry would thus retain his power advantage, which seems more important to him, than to do what is best for the team.
Before a man speaks, it is safe to assume his is a fool. After he speaks, it is seldom necessary to prove it.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on May 11, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson, Thibodeau or Casey... Which probably means Casey. Bulls have fallen far
They will interview recently dismissed Dallas coach Avery Johnson after moving away from Johnson this week to focus on D’Antoni.
They will continue to consider former Minnesota coach Dwane Casey, who has already interviewed once with the Bulls and is bound for Dallas as an assistant to Rick Carlisle if he can’t get the Bulls’ job.
And they will request permission to speak with Boston Celtics assistant coach Tom Thibodeau, architect of the defense that’s giving LeBron James so much trouble in the playoffs.
The Bulls will almost certainly hire one of those three - odds favor the less experienced (but less expensive) Thibodeau - and then start working on boosting the morale of players like Luol Deng, Ben Gordon and Joakim Noah, who were hoping so much to play for D’Antoni.
by DangerMouse on May 11, 2008 2:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm mildly intrigued by Casey
Didn’t he have a lousy Minnesota team at .500 last year when he was fired? He probably did as good a job there as anyone could have done. He’s not a “sexy” name at all, but he might be a compromise candidate – he’s still a young coach, but he does have head coaching expereince.
by Big D on May 11, 2008 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Likewise
I have to think he’s not totally clueless for getting more out of the TWolves than Randy Whittman did. On the other hand, I grew up in Lexington at the same time he was mailing envelopes full of cash to recruits and that’s pretty hard to forget.
by Sports2 on May 11, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace/Chandler, Gasol and now D'Antioni - Houston we have a problem
D’Antoni may not be the best coach for our team but there is a pattern emerging here. We give away one of the best defensive centers, lose a wonderful opportunity to get Gasol and now do not make an offer for D’Antoni. Something is not working.
by chgobr on May 11, 2008 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This makes Tom Thibodeau pretty much a lock once the playoffs
are completed for the Celtics.
by RogersPark Kris on May 11, 2008 5:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
PHEONIX
Might beat us to him…that would be the begining of “FIRE PAXSON!!!” at least begining for me. Most people are already chanting it…
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 11, 2008 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
Very odd situation indeed lol…After hearing this news yesterday.I was a lil down but o well…Aren’t we all use to it already…kind of depressing really..
D’Antoni is willing to take more money over winning…let the bum go then.
this might be a blessing in disguise.Thibodeau is and always was my 1st choice.He will fix our defense…Him sitting on the bench watching that great celtic team play..dont ya think he will learn a few or more things on how to run a great offense too?
by SK23 on May 11, 2008 5:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As a hinrich fan...
I wanted d’antoni cuz i feel he would know what to do with pgs, how to turn a guy like hinrich into an effective guard (if nothing more). Thib will probably make the entire team better, and should put us back in the top 5 defensive team category, although i dont know how much he can help this team out offensively. Couple that with pheonix wanting him too…and it might get rough.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 11, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was possibly my biggest reason, too.
Other than “making the team better” as a whole. Before being more exciting, before being more offensive, I thought he could do wonders for Hinrich. Well, hoping anyway. I think Hinrich has shown flashes of being really, really damn good when he’s been asked to be a scorer first, distributor second. I think he needs to be asked to be more aggressive, at least that’s what it’s been under Skiles.
Maybe whatever coach they do get will ask him to be more aggressive, too, and maybe that’s all he really needs. I know that D’Antoni’s system (well, from what we know about his system) demands it. I can only hope that whoever the new coach is wants a PG-initiated offense and not a “pass-it-around-forever offense.
by tyger1147 on May 11, 2008 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what good
is fixing the defense if an already struggling offense struggles even MORE? At the end of the day, the name of the game is to score more points than your opponent. People keep saying that D’Antoni only had an effect on one end of the floor…well what about Thibodeau? Won’t it be the same thing? And please don’t say “well they need to hire an offensive-minded assistant..” – I think that’s a crock. Something is just not making me jump up and down about this guy.
by NormVanBeer on May 11, 2008 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
High school basketball basics?
Its usually said that its easier for one to get points, but hard to prevent the other guy from getting points. If you are the best defender in the world (hypothetically) and can prevent others from scoring (who would not be as a good a defender as you) it is percieved that you would, even with mediocre skills, score at some point, while the other was still baffled by your own defense. At least in high school, they tend to stress these kind of things alot. What good is the fact that the guy on the other team is 6’5 and can dunk, when our team defense is never gonna let him get within 10 feet of the basket. Whats the point of that player being such a great shooter, because he is never gonna get a chance to get the ball in a position to score due to our awesome defense. Oh, we arent great scorers? Yet, we are good enough that we can score when we are wide open. So it will be a matchup of our defense vs thier defense. Whichever team screws up, the other team will score…
This is the mentality defensive teams have, this is sort of how the bulls were last year, a top notch defensive team bent on making damn sure the other team turned the ball over.
In simpler terms (why do i end with simpler terms instead of stating them to begin with?) Throwing a basketball randomly in the vicinity of the rim has a better chance of going in, as opposed to, jumping up and down with your hands up, in random spots, and getting a block….or waving your hands randomly in front of you and getting a steal….Offense will come, but defense has to be practiced and established and executed constantly…it must be perfect.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 11, 2008 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls luck out - via Wojnarowski
Here is the positive view of D’Anantoni going to the Knicks
Everyone is ripping the Chicago Bulls for failing to go harder at D’Antoni, but as one GM who considers Chicago GM John Paxson and Kerr friends said, "To me, Pax is even an even more hardcore defensive guy. He loved the way (Scott) Skiles did it." Paxson insists the Bulls wanted to make an offer on Saturday, but D’Antoni never gave him the chance. If Paxson ends up with Celtics assistant coach Tom Thibodeau, he’ll never regret it.As for Donnie Walsh, he’s thrown himself into the line of fire. Most of D’Antoni’s peers watched an easy-going, self-deprecating man grow too full of himself, too sensitive to criticism. Perhaps this was a response to his belief that Suns management was undermining him, and maybe that goes away with a GM who hired him, who’s invested in his success.
Lately, the more his system would get questioned, the more irritated D’Antoni showed himself. It spoke to a sensitivity, an insecurity, that could get him torn apart in New York. He’s never been to the NBA Finals, but he always left you thinking that his system was beyond reproach. Popovich has four titles and acts less sure he has it figured out.
by chgobr on May 11, 2008 8:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Does this imply Pax knows what he is doing?
Pax is even an even more hardcore defensive guy. He loved the way (Scott) Skiles did it.”
Is Thibodeau? in Paxson eyes Skiles2, will we win 35 games in 08-09 and then 49 games in 09-10.
I think he has shown that he favors defense to the point of having virtually no offense? Or favoring offensive players?
by exult463 on May 11, 2008 9:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Skiles2?
I like that name!
If anyone is Skiles2 it’s Avery. He’s a bit more theatrical than Skiles, but after studying up on him a bit, he seems pretty similar. I sort of wonder if he’s not Skiles moonlighting with a second coaching gig in an elaborate costume.
by Sports2 on May 11, 2008 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's more than a bit more theatrical
and Skiles has his teams running up and down the floor. Avery’s Mavs were near last in pace.
by hscs on May 11, 2008 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
likely expect a great defense, a slow pace.
And like you mentioned, the theatrics. However I do think that he’d be different from Skiles in that he’d be a better motivator and communicator with the team. I don’t buy that the players wouldn’t like him just because Jason Kidd didn’t.
(Wait, I probably once made that argument for Skiles too…)
However, Avery’s also shown not to be much of a tactician, which is more worrisome than the screaming.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 11, 2008 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, would this mean the Bulls are cursed to forever hire coaches
hated by Jason Kidd? Because I’ve really missed those games where he absolutely killed us – like that no-look over-the-shoulder basket the nba keeps insisting on putting in its ads.
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on May 12, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Avery's defense . . .
He’s a very young coach, and it’s possible he might have learned something from the way things fell apart in Dallas (and it’s not like they fell apart that badly; they were still a 50 win team in the West). As annoying as his micromanaging can be, he showed a ton of potential as a coach before this year. If Paxson insists on hiring a “defensive guy,” I’d rather have Avery than an untested commodity like Thibodeau.
by Big D on May 11, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This seems to be the Avery question...
can Avery make that leap? And transform himself from present day Avery into a very good tactician coach using past mistakes as his teacher?
Can he prove he can win with a roster less talented than his inherited tuned Mavs? Avery’s still young and recently played, but he seems very old school in his thinking. Can he relate to these new young NBA millionaires of this generation while also keeping his ego in check?
by exult463 on May 11, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 













