It's all Noc's fault

by Sports2 on Apr 9, 2008 11:10 AM CDT Comment 123 comments

[ed. note - I was thinking of writing something similar this week, so I both damn and praise Sports2 for this work. Of course, it's not "Noc's fault", but Paxson's for overpaying for intangibles.

Beyond the inherent problem with a tax-conscious team paying for a bench guy, there's the on-court issue that with Nocioni, any coach will be tempted to play small. -Matt]

I'm sure this will go over well here, but when I was thinking about the Bulls today, it occurred to me that our major problems seemed to start with resigning Nocioni and our solutions probably start with getting rid of him.

If they'd simply let Noc go to Memphis, or better yet, managed to get a future pick, they would have:

Made finances less of an issue when it comes to re-signing Ben and Lou, and thus, even if they hadn't signed extensions, there wouldn't be quite the same context there is now (arguing about a rapidly diminishing fund pool when Noc is sitting there with more than he deserves).
Our current players aren't morons. I think they saw the bad decisions of the past couple years themselves, saw the implications for themselves, and became distracted. At this point, you've got a situation that's feeding on itself. Everyone looks around and wonders if they're going to be here or even what their role is. That's understandable, but at the same time it has to be distracting, even for players that are pros who work hard.
And resigning Nocioni was a big part of that. We paid him way too much and that's figured into everyone else's expectations of what they're worth(if "Noc is worth that much, I must be worth even more") and what's available to go around (everyone knows there's less).
Moving him would have forced us to sink or swim with Thabo and Tyrus. The prevailing sentiment, I think, is that they would have gotten their feet under them quite a bit earlier, and we might have pulled out of our early season funk. Obviously no sure thing, but still...
It would have left enough luxury tax maneuvering room to consider something like the Gasol trade. In short, more flexibility.

In short, if we'd simply let Noc walk, or (better yet) managed something like wrangling a conditional pick or young player on a cheap contract (like Kyle Lowry) from Memphis when they wanted Noc, we'd likely be in a better position with respect to this past disaster of a season.

Likewise, I think our solutions for the future begin with getting Nocioni off the books....

Consider our overpaid guys. Nocioni, Hinrich and Hughes all, to some extent, are pretty obviously overpaid. While I "like" him better than Hughes out of these guys, Nocioni is clearly the most expendable. If he goes then you've cleared up the problem of Thabo and Tyrus' playing time to a large degree. We'd be left with

1- Hinrich, Gordon
2- Hughes, Gordon, Thabo
3- Deng, Thabo
4- Gooden, Tyrus
5- Noah Gooden

Which is a somewhat workable looking rotation. What's more important is that Noc and Kirk's contracts are a lot longer than Hughes'. We're in a position to simply wait Hughes out. Even if we re-sign Gordon and Deng, we'll be under the cap by a pretty significant amount in 2010 if we can move Kirk or Noc. Thus, why expend an asset (like a draft pick) to move Hughes off the books? If we're going to use a draft pick to move someone, it ought to be Nocioni or Hinrich.

Now, would it be better to move Nocioni or Hinrich? Well, look again at the rotation. While Kirk has been downright awful this year, the truth of the matter is he's still the best PG material we've got. In fact, he's the only PG material we've got. Move him and we're looking at Gordon, Thabo, Hughes, and a rookie? That's not good. Plus you've still got the frontcourt logjam issue.

So bottom line is Nocioni should be the top priority to be traded. He's a higher priority than Hughes because his contract is longer and thus screws up the potential for cap space, and he's a higher priority than Hinrich because he's simply much more replaceable.

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Comments

I haven't read this yet

but I was thinking of writing something similar this week.

Beyond the inherent problem with a tax-conscious team paying for a bench guy, there's the issue that with Nocioni, any coach will be tempted to play small.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 11:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Haven't you been saying this...

...since the day the deal was announced?

Nocioni's a 7th-man on a good team, an 8th on a great team. There's no way Gordon and Deng are only worth 25% more than him, especially on this team, and considering their ages and abilities. Paxson set their market when he offered Nocioni's contract.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 9, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

as much as I hate when people 'brag'

over 'predictions' on this site....

Yes, I've been consistently hating this contract from the outset..

Pax could've assumed that he'd still get Joe Smith (or someone like him) for a 2-year deal after letting Noc go.

As Sports2 said, Thabo gets Noc's minutes at the 3, Tyrus gets them at the 4, with Smith filling in (and then some after Skiles panicked 7 games into the season)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shouldn't be all "Paxson's" fault?

After all, he is the one agreeing to all of these contracts.

I kind of think we are lucky that it is Noc who has this contract. He might actually be tradable right now and there are a few teams that need someone of his position. And Noc would be lucky to be traded off this sinking ship. Same with Hinrich, who I don't think is terribly over paid and more tradable than others on our roster. It isn't like we are giving Duhon that kind of money and besides, doesn't Hinrich's contract decrease as it goes anyway? It might seem more attractive to people if we try to include Hinrich in a trade.

To me Hughes is the thorn in our side as far as trading goes. We can always wait him out, but at the same time I am afraid the future coach will give him lots of minutes or that he will demand lots of minutes and be cranky if he doesn't get it. And if we wait him out we got that log jam that I am afraid will result in Gordon gone. Which would mean we'd need to get someone else who can give us 20 pts a night...I actually trust Gordon more than Hughes for that.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 11:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I've emailed Sam Smith a handful of times

re: moving Nocioni, and Sam never thought he had any value. I doubt there's a lot of interest in a teeny tweener who's better at making faces and pumping his fists than basketball. Or maybe it's just his contract.

Nocioni is even more superfluous than Hughes with Gooden, Thomas, and Sefolosha all being cheaper, just as good or better forwards.

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 9, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe you're right...

...I am just hoping someone is in the market for him since there were a few in the past that seemed to think he had something. Of course a lot of that was after his good showing during playoffs past. It will probably all come down to who is on the move this summer and who has too much of this and not a lot of that. If we find a team with a lot of guards or whatnot who needs a small forward then we might get lucky.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

keeping in mind

I expect us to unload Hinrich and Duhon during the off season as well.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Duhon's a FA

so they'll just let him walk.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

unload, walk, jettison...

for Duhon I'd take catapult.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Attn Duhon:

Free beer in the top of the catapult. Women and music, too.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 9, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

Paxson takes the fall for this. As much as I can't stand him, I can't blame Noce for getting his money, that's what he's supposed to do. Paxson is the one signing off on all of these ridiculous numbers.

He painted his own self into a corner by signing Noce to such a dumb deal (dumb for the Bulls). If nothing else, I would think that at least ONE out of the two of Deng and Gordon would have been resigned this past summer.

Does anybody remember exactly when Jim Paxson came aboard? He was known for mis-managing things in Cleveland. Can we blame him too? John Paxson started off strong, but the last couple of years he has been making some critical errors.

by NormVanBeer on Apr 9, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I think Noc

has tried to live up to the money. He can't of course, but I don't see him as one of the players who gave up on the team this year. If anything, he became worse when he tried to do too much. He stopped being as efficient at his shot selection and ability to drive to the basket and didn't trust his teammates enough to pass. He definitely went through a black hole, chucker period.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed it is on Paxson

but that didn't make for as fun a title :)

As for Noc, I think he's slightly more tradable than Wallace was or than Hughes would be, but the amount of value you get coming back is still not very good.

For example, I think we'd have to include the pick in order to move Hughes for a shorter contract. I think there are a fair number of teams that might take Noc without requiring the pick and still give us a return I'd find acceptable.

Of course, that's because I'm willing to not take very much in return. I'd be pretty willing, in fact, to take most any player that had only two years left on his deal and wasn't a complete ass clown. The "return" on the trade would be the cap room in a summer with a lot of kick ass free agents.

For example, I think any of the following might meet that requirement:

To Miami for Mark Blount or Udonis Haslem (giving us an upgrade over Aaron Gray as the 4th big)
To Minnesota for Antoine Walker (NG after this year)
To Seattle for Earl Watson (a real PG, although not an especially good one).
To Indiana for Marquis Daniels or Jeff Foster and Filler (I'm sure the Pacers would do this with Daniels, since he's not got a very good image here in town and isn't a very good player, although this is the only one I'm not sure I'd do. Daniels just adds to the 2/3 logjam and puts Thabo further down the bench).
To New York for Malik Rose, who's an expiring contract. God knows the Knicks could use someone like Noc, and Rose, while not good, is a pro's pro and and a beefy guy who could fill in the depth chart up front.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 9, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd feel bad

sending Noc to the Knicks. Noc at least tries after all and doesn't deserve that fate. I'd send Hughes to the Knicks in a heartbeat though. :)

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hughes would love New York

An overpaid athlete with alot of promise and ability, however plays for his own selfish reasons and likes to hoist his own bad shots up before helping the team....yea thats a knicks player if i ever heard one.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Apr 9, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

With Larry Walsh running things

I think those days are over.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 9, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea

i agree. noch should go somewhere he can have a good career, and new york is not it. by the way, u guys hear of skiles being offered to replace issah. a skiles reunion with curry and jamal i hope scott doesnt take that job.

Ralph Wiggum, a smarter man than Jim Boylan

by Yibs on Apr 9, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL!

That rumor is awesome!

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 10, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you said

not a complete assclown.. yet you included walker.

i never want to see the day that walker is in a bulls uniform. EW.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 9, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't expect he'd actually wear one

He'd more likely than not just be bought out.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 9, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

why?

Why such bad contracts were given to kirk and noc i dunno. Kirk should be traded before if not along with noc. Both of them have eaten up minutes that should have been used developing more talented young players I think Pax has a preference for gritty white players even if they um... arent so good at basketball. Should draft the best guard around and trade kirk. Maybe Hughes and Noc might make an attractive package.... We cannot trade Gordon, he is the only player on our roster that other teams fear because he has a rare ability to score. I think we have too much of a log jam on this roster to really figure out what our greatest need is. I think it is point tho

by Zac23 on Apr 9, 2008 12:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What player

did Kirk eat up minutes for? Other than Duhon there is no one that was even remotely ready to try the point guard spot.

by sue369 on Apr 9, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

Kirk isn't eating anyone's minutes up, unless you think Thabo/Gordon were a stunning combo. The only reason I have to unload Kirk is because he is one of the few with value on a team that needs to do some serious retooling. His contract is big enough that packaged with a few others we might get one good guy out of the deal. But then you also have to realize what a team without at least a half efficient point guard will look like. If we got rid of him we'd need to get someone else because I really don't see Thabo, Hughes, or Gordon suddenly getting better at point. In fact I think at least with Gordon he might lose his shooting upside if he is expected to pass first all the time.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seeing as Kirk

is my favorite player I hope they find a way to keep him. If they don't I will follow him with his new team.

by sue369 on Apr 9, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are a number of

players I'd watch on other teams if they got traded, Kirk among them. In fact I'd go as far as to say that if they don't clean house well this summer the guys who do get out of dodge will be the happier ones. It isn't as though the guys we get rid of are being thrown out an airlock or something. They could end up in better situations.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nor are there any potential draftees

who I look at and think "ok, let's trade Kirk and build with this guy".

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 9, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Be careful what you say

The Derrick Rose lovers will be out to get you.

by snley on Apr 9, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's say the Bulls wind up

with the 8th pick. Do you see a way we can package a player with the pick and move up to 4 or 5? Would Kirk suffice? Gordon?

I'm pretty sure we don't have anyone on the roster that would get us far enough up to pick Beasley or Rose, but could we get up far enough to go after Brooks Lopez (a big that already knows how to score) at 4 or 5?

by alec on Apr 9, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon and Deng can't be traded

Until they agree to new contracts (hence, not until well after the draft).

I could actually see some team likely in that range (New York, Minnesota, LA Clippers) considering Kirk + the pick because they all seem to need PGs. But also remember they'd have to send us back a contract, and I'd imagine they'd want to send back a crummy one.

Like, the Knicks might take Kirk + #8 for # 4 or 5, but what's that gonna get us?

I honestly don't think Lopez is a very good idea with both Tyrus and Noah in the fold, and if we give up Kirk to get him we become even less balanced in the backcourt.

And I don't see Mayo or Bayless as guys that it's worth doing that for. I have no real sense of what the Italian kid brings to the table.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 9, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

although...

i am a noc fan, i think there is truth to the theory that his contract implications contributed to some of the consternation this year. essentially, noc is making starter money as the 2nd option off the bench. something's gotta give...

by leeac on Apr 9, 2008 12:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hindsight is 20/20

While I agree that as the team now blows Nocioni is a problem due to his contract and his spot in the depth chart, a few years ago

Nocioni was one of my favorite players. He consistently would play hard, seemed to not take as many bonehead shots, and if memory serves 3 years ago against Miami he was dominating in the playoffs. After years of the depressing Floyd-Cartwright eras it was nice to see the team succeed and to lose one of the 4 players that got us back to the playoffs would have been upsetting.

But we are where we are. Paxson has a lot to unload. What we can get back is the better question. Everyone wants to trade Kirk but we're not going to get a better point guard back in that trade, so we go with a rookie pg in the draft? Lots of issues to work out.

by bullsfaninla on Apr 9, 2008 1:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No one is discounting what Chapu brings

His praises are sung whenever the Bulls are successful, and he is the prototypical blue-collar player that almost every winning team has(Paul Milsap, Carl Landry, Leon Powe etc etc). However, do you think any of those guys deserve a 35 million dollar extension? Noc is extremely valuable to this team....but only at the right price for a bench player. Paxson KNEW he had to re-sign Deng, or if he was intent on trading him he was going to pay a hefty salary with Gasol or Kobe or whatever. He overpaid for him, and it set the wheels in motion for everything that could have possibly gone wrong.

Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 9, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The result of mis-evaluating his roster

Paxson gave Noce a contract most thought was foolish because he viewed him as a key component of a conference, if not Finals, contender. You tend to overpay for winners. That's probably the same reason he paid Hinrich the money he did. Hinrich has never been a PG. I don't care how many fans who didn't see him play the 2 at Kansas while Aaron Miles ran the point, don't realize this. Hinrich's best strength is not running a team, it's not his jumper, it's not making his teammates better, it's not even defending quick PGs, rather it is guarding the opposition's 2 guard. That's pretty p-poor. Hinrich and Noce are two examples of guys who were the beneficiary of Paxson's individual and team evaluation. You know, the same evaluation that led Paxson to draft an undersized, turnover prone, poor decision making 2 guard with the #3 pick knowing he already had an undersized combo guard masquerading as a 1. I screamed that night after realizing the Bulls could have taken both Deng and Iggy with the #3 and 7.

by messwiththebull on Apr 9, 2008 1:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

messwiththebull

I feel your pain.. great evalution!

by exult463 on Apr 9, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you know you're on to something

when you get exultations from exult himself.

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Going forward we need to be vigilant about

overpaying. I am concerned Paxson will overpay for Deng. It sounds like he is going to hold the line on Gordon. Can we package Hinrich and Noc for Marion and a swap of picks? I believe salaries work. I'm at work and cannot use the ESPN trade machine.

by chgobr on Apr 9, 2008 2:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Trade Machine is pretty much out of commission

It won't let you make a trade using any player with an option, either the player's or the team's, to end the contract after the season.

by snley on Apr 9, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

why would miami want longer term contracts

and a worse draft pick? Hinrich and Noc for Marion don't make Miami a contender.

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It'll be

real fun watching Miami draft Rose, then have two Chicago boys lead them back up. This sucks.

by jpchi on Apr 9, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marion is a problem

He is going to be overpaid at $17 million next year. It is going to be very difficult to sign him at a reasonable price. Marion is a real financial conundrum

by chgobr on Apr 9, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But still the question is Why?

$17mil in cap space (not to mention a higher draft pick-they have the best odds at the number 1 overall) is worth more than Kirk and Noce (and their bad contracts to the Heat. Miami will always be an attractive destination for FAs, especially if the Heat are building around Wade and say, Rose. There is absolutely no way Miami even thinks about that trade for one second.

---

Great diary, BTW. Glad the playoff chase is officially over, even if the Bulls won't give me my money back for the first two playoff rounds (it's a credit towards next season, but I'm not happy about it). Pax has one year to fix this if he wants me to re-up again next offseason.

by Moses Taylor on Apr 9, 2008 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the only trade with Noce

will be something along the lines of what was suggessted in Sam Smith's recent Q&A, a trade involving Nocioni and Gooden to LA for Odom. I can't see any non-contenders wanting Noce and I can't think of too many other contenders who would have anything the Bulls could work with.

by messwiththebull on Apr 9, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blazer's might have interest

Noc can hit the outside shot. I believe Portland wants an upgrade at both the point and SF.

by exult463 on Apr 9, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still for taking the best shooter/scorer...

...and coming up with a super-creative way of signing LeBron James in the future: like signing a deal with Nike that says they'll pay the team's "best player" $100 zillion a year. Or something like that. Then he'll sign for whatever is under the cap.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 9, 2008 2:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Orrr....

They could use Deng to get something, anything, this Summer, overpay for Gordon (the shooter/scorer), draft the best ball-handler, then use the Nocioni, Hinrich and Hughes contracts to bring James in. Maybe they could use a future pick or two to get someone to take Hughes and give back a "serviceable" SF.

That's probably the biggest risk/reward strategy right there, while still keeping afloat. They aren't too good the next two years, but they probably aren't horrible either if they get a good coach. They then have the contracts, and maybe the assets to make the move for James while still having a good supporting cast.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 9, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noc and Hughes

for Shaq after the Suns flame out in the first round?

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For much of the year

Noc was outperforming BG as the best sixth man, based on PER. I think hindsight is getting way too much credit here. A year ago, Noc was a solid rotation guy and a very tradeable asset. Signing him to a contract that was front loaded also makes him a big salary that can be used to facilitate deals, something the bulls didn't have when they failed to use PJ Brown and important when Hinrich looked like a key piece of the puzzle. He may look worse now, but everybody looks worse now, so I find it a little hard to single him out. He was part of the rumored Gasol deal, so he's being utilized for what he is, a trade chip.

And lest we all forget, TT started the year ahead of him on the depth chart, and recently has been getting more burn than Noc is, so the fact that Noc was used as a crutch shouldn't be used against him.

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 2:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

for much of the year

Noc was outperforming EVERYBODY. Why just cherry pick BG? Thru the first 2-3 months of the season any article you read it was calling Noce and Joe Smith the most consistent players on the team. It wasn't until after the all-star break is when he started to level-off and return back to normal.

Front-loaded or not, a 5 year deal?? Come on. You really want to pay a 29-yr old reserve who's most important assets are "energy" and "passion" for that long? If Paxson was really looking at him as a trade-chip, as you say, then don't you think he would have at least signed him to less than five? A 3-yr, $21 million deal looks better to me than a 5 yr, $38 million deal (or whatever it was that he got).

No matter how it's spun, Paxson knee-jerked at Memphis' slight courtship of Noce and it completely blew up in his face. I say blew up because now Noce looks worse than what the rest of the core guys looked like at the start of the season. Now he's left holding the pieces trying to figure out exactly how he got in this mess.

Noce started high, went lower, and now completely looks putrid. Everyone else started putrid and at least returned to mediocrity.

by NormVanBeer on Apr 9, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They are the offense off of the bench

so that was the natural comparison I made. And Noc won't be 29 until well into next season. And mediocre is putting a positive spin on everybody's performance outside of Noah.

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

there's a chance

that Noc is 'tradeable' because his contract is decline. But as Norm said, 5 years is a hard thing to get over.

Memphis turned down a Nocioni-included package, likely for that reason. Sure, they're especially cheap, but most 'rebuilding' teams don't want guys like Nocioni clogging up their cap.

Hindsight may get credit, but Pax is partially judged on foresight. I can't stand when media says "well I didn't hear anybody criticizing the move then...", as if we're held to the same standard as the freaking GM. Although, that point is moot here since I was against re-signing Nocioni then :-p

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

just think

in 5 games it will only be 4 years and be 20% easier to get over. :-p

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe I'll set up a countdown clock.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

another hit against Noc's 'worth'

I see the idea of signing Noc to a front-loaded contract, if only to deal it after they let PJ Brown's contract expire.

But now, Pax has another chunky piece of expiring money in Gooden. Plus Hinrich (who also signed a frontloaded deal) is now more firmly on the tradeable list.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This Nocioni rant...

...just got you on a roll, eh? heh

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 9, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, the passion of Nocioni

makes me passionate about dogging him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

Memphis put pressure on the Bulls but the Bulls still ended up bidding against themselves. As far as I know, Memphis visited Noce but never actually made an offer. I have no way of knowing, but I think Paxson got a little freaked out by Memphis and the deals guys like Kapono were getting and wanted to make Noce an offer he couldn't refuse and move on to the others.

by messwiththebull on Apr 9, 2008 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"shouldn't be held against him"

well, nothing really is against him, it's against Paxson.

As in, Paxson should've seen that Nocioni would potentially be used as a crutch. And judging by the contract he gave Noc, Pax did see it and actually thought of it as a positive.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Irony...

Today, while BaB was discussing how to rid the franchise of Noc, this appeared on the Bulls official site:

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Apr 9, 2008 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, that didn't work.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Apr 9, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

try just this

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/nocioni1_080409.jpg

by KT on Apr 9, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was attempting to do this...

I reversed the HTML command. I am an internet failure.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Apr 9, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow

If I was a better blogger, I'd make a post saying "THAT'S why I can't stand the Nocioni/Bulls relationship"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least the have a Hungry Heart

and not a Broken Heart... FOR FIVE YEARS!!!!!!

"2nd half Ben Gordon bonanza. It's coming :)" - Matt, Blog-A-Bull

by Goostafer on Apr 9, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Hornets are the best

trade partner for the Bulls I think. Nocioni is a good role player in the wrong system right now. He needs to be playing with some real bigs to be effective at the 4 spot.

NO has a young, thin bench which I think will lead to a 2nd round exit in the playoffs this year. Therefore in the offseason they will want to add some depth to the bench. While Chandler and West are good starters, they don't really have any quality backup big men. Julian Wright needs to bulk up to play the 4 spot. Chris Anderson? Hilton Armstrong? Pass.

Enter a package starring Nocioni. He is playoff tested and will do the dirty work. Plus on the offensive end, he'll be another shooter for CP3 to pass too.

Contract wise, they don't have any expiring contracts. However, Mike James ($6 mil x 2 years), Mo Pete ($6 x 3 years), and Rasul Butler ($3.9 x 2 years) all have shorter contracts than Nocioni. None of those players play much either, so NO would be able to keep their core players together for at least 2 more years. The Bulls would get some crappy contracts and players in return, but they come off the books sooner.

The only downside I could see is that CP3 is due for an extension before the 2010/11 season. However, that season Peja's playoff disappearing body turns into a $15 million expiring contract.

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 3:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

not a bad idea

To me, the type of team that would want Noc is one like you described: weak bench on a team that's heading upward. (i.e. not rebuilding)

New Orleans is tax-conscious and have to re-sign Chris Paul, so they may be open to a long-term contract in Noc (especially if it decreases) if it means they save more yearly.

For instance, in 2009/2010, and Chris Paul's in the first year of his max deal...Noc is making $7.5m, and James+Butler's making $10.4m.

although, uh, the Bulls are trying to avoid the Tax as well. I'm assuming that you could flip a James/Butler contract easier in a later deal, however.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah sorry

I forgot to mention that James/Butler/Peterson contracts would need to be traded. This would be like Step 1 of a 2-3 Step plan to rid ourselves of Nocioni's contract. I think the Bulls would have a much easier time doing a multiple step plan rather than trying to find a single trade to solve their salary problems.

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

By the way, I really believe the woes of the Bulls

can be attributed to their failure to develop the young players on the roster.

Some of that can be blamed on the players themselves, but most of the culpability falls on the franchise.

They traded Eddy Curry for two lottery picks. They used those lottery picks on Tyrus and Noah, Once the two kids were drafted, they let them languish. Meanwhile, Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich all regressed this season, which is also a reflection of the way the franchise treats its players.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Apr 9, 2008 3:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

if you want to be uber-cynical

they trash their own players right about when it's time to pay them :-p

unless it's Thomas and Noah. Maybe they just have an entirely combative and negative staff, and a sleepy GM.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

C'mon now

It's hard to say the Bulls have failed in the development of young players when you saw a team challenge for 50 wins last year being led by Hinrich, Deng, and Gordon. It's just that the organization - Skiles in particular - may have developed those guys too quickly, where we're seeing their ceilings a little early, or at least some form of mean reversion off what may be career years. If you expect more from these players, then maybe you're guily of overrating these guys like Paxson has.

Thabo has developed into what I consider a core piece with all-star potential. Noah looks like he's a solid piece as well. Tyrus has not developed but maybe we are all overrating Tyrus as well. It's just been that we haven't really had an opportunity to tell with him. The Bulls have developed their young players very well; they're just not superstars - or even all-stars.

The easiest and perhaps best way to develop young players is by placing a stud PG on the team. The Bulls don't even have "a" PG, nevertheless a stud PG. Look even at the effect Andre Miller has had on the formerly sad 76ers. Had the Bulls had a PG - let's hypothetically say they drafted TJ Ford instead and he didn't crack his neck - then I'd say Tyson would still be on this team.

by messwiththebull on Apr 9, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so they're just shitty drafters then

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you have to be kidding, right?

Andre Miller is the reason the sixers have emerged this year? Andre Miller is as much, if not more of a combo guard than Hinrich is. He shoots more and has pretty much the same assist rate as Hinrich. The biggest difference between them is how well their teammates are playing this year.

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

all the info

coming from inside sources and my own two eyes say they've not given the young guys a fair shake. Need I mention the rumors of the use of film, or lack of it rather, players hiring outside people to help them because they are not getting sufficient help from the organization, and the bloody obvious fact they just since January finally hired a big man coach. Or how about that what-huh moment when we find out Noah had to ask for a play book towards the end of last fall because they don't give those out. I am not getting in indication from anywhere that they have worked at developing these guys. We've been talking about it for months -- the organization is screwed up. No use ignoring the on the court/off the court evidence.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you will all be impressed

that Henry Abbott linked to this thread.

by KT on Apr 9, 2008 5:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it

Yes Noch is overpaid, but there are tons of NBA players who are paid alot more and don't deserve it.

Noch is usually the most consistent player.
He usually makes 1 or 2 bonehead moves a game, which is why he shouldn't be out there at the end of the game. But what player plays a completely perfect game?

But as far as an all-around player he's more complete of a player then Deng, at this point.
His defense is better and he's more consistent.
Yes, Deng had potential, but potential doesn't mean squat unless you produce.

I don't get way everyone jumps on the "let's hate Nocioni bandwagon."
He busts his ass every play, which is more then I can say for the rest of the team. That's why he had a bad second half of the year. Noch can't stand losing, and since everyone else was screwing around, he tried to do too much.

And there's no reason why he takes Thabo's and Tyrus mins away.

PG Hinrich/Thabo
SG Gordon/Hughes
SF Deng/Noch
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Noah/Gray(Love next year)

What's wrong with that?
No one is out of position and I think that is a very good first and second team line-up.

I would rather have a guy on my team who is busting his ass all the time, as opposed to players who pouted all year because they didn't get the big bucks.

You want big bucks? Man up and play well before you're eligible for a contract extension.

by Ed on Apr 9, 2008 11:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the franchise is a disaster in every way

bad reputation among players around the league?

check

inexplicably failing to play young talent in meaningless games? check

minimal options available (even if good FAs wanted to sign with this sleazy franchise) to sign this off-season? check

over-valued talent? check

and watch Pax grab one of the PGs in the draft...the one that doesn't work out.

by Orlando Woolridge on Apr 10, 2008 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unbelievable post..

Nocioni is not the problem, what a ridiculous comment! Nocioni is an impact, game-changing player that would be a key piece in the post-season for ANY team in this League. He was paid what was required to keep him in Chicago.

The problem has been the management of our high draft picks.

With the benefit of hindsight, drafting Ben Gordon instead of e.g using the pick as part of a trade or going for Iguodala and more importantly picking TT instead of LaMarcus Aldridge or Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay etc. is what has killed this team...

These errors need to be corrected this summer. IMO no one is untouchable, but we have reached the end of the road with this roster. Major re-shake is required together with a coach obviously...

by Vangelis on Apr 10, 2008 5:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

So much for men being men

I can't play hard because I didn't get the contract I wanted.

I can't play hard because a guy behind me in the rotation did get the contract he wanted.

BAB has crapped on Kirk, Gordon, and now Nocioni as if they or their contracts are the problem. They're not.

Seriously though, Nocioni's contract injured Luol Deng's foot, Ben Gordon's ankle, and Scott Skiles' job status.

Drink a bottle of beer. Now smash it over your head. Thank you.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 2:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it was either that

or blaming it on box-outs.

I think each didn't play hard because the other guy wasn't playing hard. Or not well. And their coaching staff (and therefore, management) sabotaged them.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's the politics of fanboiism...

what are you going to do?... ;-)

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 10, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

since you've unsurprisingly validated

that comment, I have to ask why.

Hinrich wasn't the problem this year? Gordon? It's really all injuries and Skiles quitting on the team?

And I still have no idea what the 'men being men' thing means at all. (in life either, ba-zing)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what it means

Men being men means you still go out and play hard, dedicated, and leave it all on the floor LIKE A PROFESSIONAL.

Noc made a poster last night. Dwight Howard's poster though. The team was down 15+ late in the 3rd and Noc was still challenging wide open dunks from Dwight Howard.

I have to write a rebuttal post to Sports2 now. I'm working now so I've only been able to post in spurts.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noc must have

missed the memo that said the Bulls were on vacation already. Some players are better at giving up than others. The fact Noc doesn't give up doesn't mean he has a future on this team though. The team needs to be blown up. Noc might be a casualty of that and perhaps better off somewhere else as well.

by cranscape on Apr 10, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, all of Noc's too-late fouling

and jumping-over-teammates-back rebounding is really something they could all strive for.

I'm not sure why Gordon's chucking is money-grabbing, while Noc's is 'just trying so hard for the team, goshdarnit'.

Also, I hate Noc's stupid face.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and his stupid hair

both on face and on head.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're on a roll tonight

I bet Noc has an ugly dog, what do you think? :0

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 10, 2008 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah so ugly

I bet people confuse who's walking who! hahahahaha

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Preemptive rebuttal of your rebuttal

Just to be clear, my fingering of Nocioni was a little bit tongue in cheek; I don't the he is literally at fault for everything.

But, when I trace out how I think everything got broken and how everything might get fixed, it all runs through him.

Your point, as I see it, is that the real problem is that most of these guys are just plain unprofessional in their play and that shouldn't be blamed on Nocioni.

I agree in principle, but the truth is these guys aren't going to be motivated professionals all the time, and if they see shit going on around them they don't like, it affects them. We'd like to think getting millions of dollars will change human nature, but it doesn't. If anything, the NBA has proven over and over again that people are still susceptible to all the same kind of jealousies and failings everyone else has, even when they're rich.

That's the bad news. The good news is these are guys who, when properly motivated and put in the right roles, can probably be pretty good.

But that success requires good leadership and the ability to manage people, not just contracts. Just looking at "Noc as a contract", he's not a killer. Putting it in the context of everything else, resigning him made everything worse.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 11, 2008 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bulls should hold training camp in South Dakota

After all, South Dakota is where the men are men...and the sheep are scared.

by snley on Apr 11, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can trade Nocioni to the Raptors

Bulls Get
Bargnani
Anthony Parker
Raptors 2008 1st round pick

Raptors get
Nocioni
Bulls 2008 first round pick

Colangelo won't want to lose Parker, but he'll give him up if it means he can trade Bargnani and get a lottery pick in return.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 2:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

didn't we discuss this last week?

if bargnani stinks so bad that the team that drafted him #1 overall doesn't want him after 2 seasons, why do the Bulls want him? Was Sene unavailable?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I told you already

Because Colangelo wants Nocioni. If they had the cash they would have made an offer.

The Raptors part with their rookies pretty quickly when they don't like the progress. They'll even trade garbage for garbage and hope for the best. See the Rafael Arujo deal for evidence.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that doesn't answer

why the Bulls would want Bargs.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They wouldn't want him

He's the "change" in the deal. The real prize is Anthony Parker. If Bargs were to work out, great.

I think you can change the back office Bulls staff faster and more affordably than you can the actual players. That's where the problems lie.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also heard

the Suns were going to give up on Amare :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I heard that too

right after I also heard they were championship contenders.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if only we could find an unimpeachable

arbiter of such things.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One exists

Time.

Have faith friend.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well Bargnani wouldn't work out here long-term

and he rebounds as bad as Nocioni so he wouldn't be useful this year, but he could be flipped, so that trade isn't so bad.

They'd be moving from pick #9 to #16 in order to get Noc off the books. And Parker is the ::drool:: big guard we've wanted so, and he's only signed through next season.

I'd almost rather take big Rasho than Bargnani. Maybe deal them Thabo in exchange (we'll have Parker to take his place). He's foreign and therefore coveted by the Raptors. If that's not enough salary give them Red Kerr's poolboy, big Aaron. If that's not enough I don't want to manually figure out why.

The bigger problem I have is still that I think Toronto's getting hosed. They did give up on Arujuo and Villeneueva pretty quick, but Colangelo didn't pick those guys.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

gah I couldn't resist

Noc/Thabo/Simmons/#9

for

Parker/Rasho/#16

works.

Man, then they have fat expiring deals with Parker, Rasho, and Gooden...right in the range where you could pair them with Gordon or Deng in a sign/trade. Plus I think all those guys have roles if they were to stay. Rasho is an actually useful Aaron Gray, and Parker is a slightly smaller yet more polished Thabo (if Thabo ever gets polished, 'natch)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you're dealing Thabo

to Toronto then you want a lot more back. Colangelo loves Thabo too, more than Nocioni. The Suns under Colangelo were scouting Thabo since he showed up in the pro leagues of Europe.

It seems you just want expiring deals though. Does the Bulls back office give you any impression they're able to woo any free agents to the club?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

expiring deals need not expire

they can be traded. Aren't you piped into Chris Wallace's scouting conversations as well?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also heard

that Colangelo scouted Bargnani in Europe as well. He must really like that kid.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don't like to answer questions

But you love to avoid them and ask your own.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 11, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

do I?

You asked if they can attract free agents. I answered it doesn't matter because they'll be looking to trade the expiring deals, not get under the cap.

ubsurv that.(?)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nocioni is not the problem

Sure he's hyper, and plays like a soccer player (pretending he's hurt when he's not, etc) But wait a minute. Who else went to the hole consistently this year? Who else finished once he was there? Who else hits threes, and isn't under 6'3"? We should sign and trade Deng, and Gordon, because we will never be an elite team with those guys as our starters. We need to trade them to get anything better. Nocioni is obviously not an elite starter, but he will help us get better in the meantime, and not hold down starter cash. The keepers to me are

Thabo, Gooden, Noc, Noah.

Honestly, we need to blow it up, keep those guys, sign and trade away the rest of em. Whatever gets us the most value. We need to draft some beef, and we need to draft a taller scorer who plays D, and we should bring back Skiles.

For all of those who think I'm crazy for nuking Deng and Gordon, playing an elite squad, who does Deng cover on D? He's too slow to guard the quick SF, and to small to guard the PF. Its like he's a worse shooting Glen Robinson-

Lets remember that the way we got our first 3 rings was as much the D trifecta of Jordan/Pippen/Horace as it was Jordon's magic on the offensive end. At least with Thabo/Noah/Noc we have hustlers, and I think think Thabo and Noah both could be all league D.

I would bench Hughes, not play him at all, like we did with Tim Thomas. At least until he starts showing up consistently for practice. And he's the kind of guy they need consistently going to the hole, and basically never shooting 3's- long 2's at most like what they did with Deng 2 years ago.

We should trade up for best PG available, and Deng/Gordon/Kirk as bait. With a good PG, Thabo and Noah really benefit, as well as Tyrus.

Then its:

Drafted PG, Thabo, Tyrus, Noah, Gooden. Play Noc when/if Tyrus is too lost. If Tyrus can learn to play SF, he's a boatload quicker than Deng, so he can match up, and obviously our weakside help, and boards are better that way.

If the guys want to win, they have to D up, and run. If we get an awesome PG in the deal, we might even be better at the end of next year.

And we would probably still have Gordon or Deng or Kirk, just not all 3. I would use Hughes like a less hustling, less productive Noc, let him prove he wants to be a starter before giving him that spot. His shot selection and wandering around on D currently puts him on the bench.

by iBurkey on Apr 10, 2008 10:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I love how everyone seems to think

a newly drafted PG is the answer. Very few elite PGs were great their first year, and elite PGs don't come along all that often to start with. And the Bulls' shot at Rose is slim at best.

It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 11, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no kidding

search for Acie Law posts from a year ago.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

add another team to the Noc wish list?

Looks like the Warriors aren't making the playoffs.

I'm sure, uh, Al Harrington can be had. (hey, at least his contract's better than Noc!). And of course, BaB-oddly-coveted-first-team Marco Bellinelli.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/warriors.jsp

Man, they're going to have an interesting offseason: Davis, Biedrins, Ellis, Pietrus, Barnes, Azubuike are all potentially free agents.

Not sure which way they'll go. I think Noc could do well in their style, but would they want to try and save money to re-sign all those guys instead? Sadly I don't think they could do a deal for Noc unless it did involve Harrington, who they don't seem to really like, and they do have Brandon Wright ready to...do whatever he'll do.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

how is that a better contract

harrington is owed almost as much in the next two years as Noc is in 3.

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

contrarian bot needs reprogramming (or oil)

Noc has 4 more years remaining. Plus a 5th if the Bulls really like his scrap!

Noc - 4/$29m
Harrington - 2/$19m

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and if you knew that and chose to ignore it

it's always about the years.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

but what about the epic struggle

to resign Deng and slightly more cosmically significant, BG?

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

good point

it's not always the years, there's luxury tax too.

like I said originally, I don't think the Warriors bother unless they can get rid of Harrington in the process, and that's not something I'm really excited over.

But perhaps the Bulls know they're making changes with their other players (including flipping someone like Harrington), so they assume they won't be over the tax when the offseason's over?

(Also, I'd say Deng's more cosmically significant.)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

btw

I prefer controversialist to contrarianbot. ;-)

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shorter contract

I think the goal with a guy like Harrington would be to get Noc off the books by 2010, when we'd also have Hughes deal expiring.

In my ideal world, at least, go into that summer with a fairly solid team and the ability to make a credible pitch to one of the big time guys that'll be a free agent.

Maybe it's not the best plan in the world, but I don't see anything else that looks better, and it doesn't foreclose our possibilities for improving up to that point.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 11, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh right

that's the magical summer of James/Wade/Bosh

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And if you look at the

Garnett and Gasol trades the Bulls won't get any of those three either because apparently you have to have buddies in high places to get any kind of good trades/fleecings these days. Doesn't seem like anyone is pals with guys in our upper management and the Knicks won't be helping us out in the future either.

by cranscape on Apr 11, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As I said

I've yet to see a better alternative :)

I certainly wouldn't pass up a great opportunity if it came along sooner, but I don't see a better alternative than keeping our options fairly open at this point.

At least for a team that won't pay a penny of tax to get a star quality player, keeping all but your better guys on shorter term deals and trying to line up a time to have cap space seems like the best way to go.

What's the alternative?

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 11, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs