It's all Noc's fault
by Sports2 on Apr 9, 2008 11:10 AM CDT
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Print[ed. note - I was thinking of writing something similar this week, so I both damn and praise Sports2 for this work. Of course, it's not "Noc's fault", but Paxson's for overpaying for intangibles.
Beyond the inherent problem with a tax-conscious team paying for a bench guy, there's the on-court issue that with Nocioni, any coach will be tempted to play small. -Matt]
I'm sure this will go over well here, but when I was thinking about the Bulls today, it occurred to me that our major problems seemed to start with resigning Nocioni and our solutions probably start with getting rid of him.
If they'd simply let Noc go to Memphis, or better yet, managed to get a future pick, they would have:
- Made finances less of an issue when it comes to re-signing Ben and Lou, and thus, even if they hadn't signed extensions, there wouldn't be quite the same context there is now (arguing about a rapidly diminishing fund pool when Noc is sitting there with more than he deserves).
Our current players aren't morons. I think they saw the bad decisions of the past couple years themselves, saw the implications for themselves, and became distracted. At this point, you've got a situation that's feeding on itself. Everyone looks around and wonders if they're going to be here or even what their role is. That's understandable, but at the same time it has to be distracting, even for players that are pros who work hard.
And resigning Nocioni was a big part of that. We paid him way too much and that's figured into everyone else's expectations of what they're worth(if "Noc is worth that much, I must be worth even more") and what's available to go around (everyone knows there's less).
- Moving him would have forced us to sink or swim with Thabo and Tyrus. The prevailing sentiment, I think, is that they would have gotten their feet under them quite a bit earlier, and we might have pulled out of our early season funk. Obviously no sure thing, but still...
- It would have left enough luxury tax maneuvering room to consider something like the Gasol trade. In short, more flexibility.
Likewise, I think our solutions for the future begin with getting Nocioni off the books....
Consider our overpaid guys. Nocioni, Hinrich and Hughes all, to some extent, are pretty obviously overpaid. While I "like" him better than Hughes out of these guys, Nocioni is clearly the most expendable. If he goes then you've cleared up the problem of Thabo and Tyrus' playing time to a large degree. We'd be left with
1- Hinrich, Gordon
2- Hughes, Gordon, Thabo
3- Deng, Thabo
4- Gooden, Tyrus
5- Noah Gooden
Which is a somewhat workable looking rotation. What's more important is that Noc and Kirk's contracts are a lot longer than Hughes'. We're in a position to simply wait Hughes out. Even if we re-sign Gordon and Deng, we'll be under the cap by a pretty significant amount in 2010 if we can move Kirk or Noc. Thus, why expend an asset (like a draft pick) to move Hughes off the books? If we're going to use a draft pick to move someone, it ought to be Nocioni or Hinrich.
Now, would it be better to move Nocioni or Hinrich? Well, look again at the rotation. While Kirk has been downright awful this year, the truth of the matter is he's still the best PG material we've got. In fact, he's the only PG material we've got. Move him and we're looking at Gordon, Thabo, Hughes, and a rookie? That's not good. Plus you've still got the frontcourt logjam issue.
So bottom line is Nocioni should be the top priority to be traded. He's a higher priority than Hughes because his contract is longer and thus screws up the potential for cap space, and he's a higher priority than Hinrich because he's simply much more replaceable.
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I haven't read this yet
Beyond the inherent problem with a tax-conscious team paying for a bench guy, there's the issue that with Nocioni, any coach will be tempted to play small.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 11:24 AM CDT reply actions
Haven't you been saying this...
Nocioni's a 7th-man on a good team, an 8th on a great team. There's no way Gordon and Deng are only worth 25% more than him, especially on this team, and considering their ages and abilities. Paxson set their market when he offered Nocioni's contract.
as much as I hate when people 'brag'
Yes, I've been consistently hating this contract from the outset..
Pax could've assumed that he'd still get Joe Smith (or someone like him) for a 2-year deal after letting Noc go.
As Sports2 said, Thabo gets Noc's minutes at the 3, Tyrus gets them at the 4, with Smith filling in (and then some after Skiles panicked 7 games into the season)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Shouldn't be all "Paxson's" fault?
I kind of think we are lucky that it is Noc who has this contract. He might actually be tradable right now and there are a few teams that need someone of his position. And Noc would be lucky to be traded off this sinking ship. Same with Hinrich, who I don't think is terribly over paid and more tradable than others on our roster. It isn't like we are giving Duhon that kind of money and besides, doesn't Hinrich's contract decrease as it goes anyway? It might seem more attractive to people if we try to include Hinrich in a trade.
To me Hughes is the thorn in our side as far as trading goes. We can always wait him out, but at the same time I am afraid the future coach will give him lots of minutes or that he will demand lots of minutes and be cranky if he doesn't get it. And if we wait him out we got that log jam that I am afraid will result in Gordon gone. Which would mean we'd need to get someone else who can give us 20 pts a night...I actually trust Gordon more than Hughes for that.
I've emailed Sam Smith a handful of times
Nocioni is even more superfluous than Hughes with Gooden, Thomas, and Sefolosha all being cheaper, just as good or better forwards.
Maybe you're right...
Duhon's a FA
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Attn Duhon:
i agree
He painted his own self into a corner by signing Noce to such a dumb deal (dumb for the Bulls). If nothing else, I would think that at least ONE out of the two of Deng and Gordon would have been resigned this past summer.
Does anybody remember exactly when Jim Paxson came aboard? He was known for mis-managing things in Cleveland. Can we blame him too? John Paxson started off strong, but the last couple of years he has been making some critical errors.
And I think Noc
Indeed it is on Paxson
As for Noc, I think he's slightly more tradable than Wallace was or than Hughes would be, but the amount of value you get coming back is still not very good.
For example, I think we'd have to include the pick in order to move Hughes for a shorter contract. I think there are a fair number of teams that might take Noc without requiring the pick and still give us a return I'd find acceptable.
Of course, that's because I'm willing to not take very much in return. I'd be pretty willing, in fact, to take most any player that had only two years left on his deal and wasn't a complete ass clown. The "return" on the trade would be the cap room in a summer with a lot of kick ass free agents.
For example, I think any of the following might meet that requirement:
- To Miami for Mark Blount or Udonis Haslem (giving us an upgrade over Aaron Gray as the 4th big)
- To Minnesota for Antoine Walker (NG after this year)
- To Seattle for Earl Watson (a real PG, although not an especially good one).
- To Indiana for Marquis Daniels or Jeff Foster and Filler (I'm sure the Pacers would do this with Daniels, since he's not got a very good image here in town and isn't a very good player, although this is the only one I'm not sure I'd do. Daniels just adds to the 2/3 logjam and puts Thabo further down the bench).
- To New York for Malik Rose, who's an expiring contract. God knows the Knicks could use someone like Noc, and Rose, while not good, is a pro's pro and and a beefy guy who could fill in the depth chart up front.
I'd feel bad
Hughes would love New York
yea
LOL!
you said
i never want to see the day that walker is in a bulls uniform. EW.
why?
by Zac23 on Apr 9, 2008 12:09 PM CDT reply actions
What player
I agree.
Seeing as Kirk
There are a number of
Nor are there any potential draftees
Let's say the Bulls wind up
I'm pretty sure we don't have anyone on the roster that would get us far enough up to pick Beasley or Rose, but could we get up far enough to go after Brooks Lopez (a big that already knows how to score) at 4 or 5?
Gordon and Deng can't be traded
I could actually see some team likely in that range (New York, Minnesota, LA Clippers) considering Kirk + the pick because they all seem to need PGs. But also remember they'd have to send us back a contract, and I'd imagine they'd want to send back a crummy one.
Like, the Knicks might take Kirk + #8 for # 4 or 5, but what's that gonna get us?
I honestly don't think Lopez is a very good idea with both Tyrus and Noah in the fold, and if we give up Kirk to get him we become even less balanced in the backcourt.
And I don't see Mayo or Bayless as guys that it's worth doing that for. I have no real sense of what the Italian kid brings to the table.
although...
Hindsight is 20/20
Nocioni was one of my favorite players. He consistently would play hard, seemed to not take as many bonehead shots, and if memory serves 3 years ago against Miami he was dominating in the playoffs. After years of the depressing Floyd-Cartwright eras it was nice to see the team succeed and to lose one of the 4 players that got us back to the playoffs would have been upsetting.
But we are where we are. Paxson has a lot to unload. What we can get back is the better question. Everyone wants to trade Kirk but we're not going to get a better point guard back in that trade, so we go with a rookie pg in the draft? Lots of issues to work out.
by bullsfaninla on Apr 9, 2008 1:24 PM CDT reply actions
No one is discounting what Chapu brings
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 9, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
The result of mis-evaluating his roster
you know you're on to something
Going forward we need to be vigilant about
Trade Machine is pretty much out of commission
why would miami want longer term contracts
Marion is a problem
But still the question is Why?
---
Great diary, BTW. Glad the playoff chase is officially over, even if the Bulls won't give me my money back for the first two playoff rounds (it's a credit towards next season, but I'm not happy about it). Pax has one year to fix this if he wants me to re-up again next offseason.
I think the only trade with Noce
by messwiththebull on Apr 9, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Blazer's might have interest
I'm still for taking the best shooter/scorer...
Orrr....
That's probably the biggest risk/reward strategy right there, while still keeping afloat. They aren't too good the next two years, but they probably aren't horrible either if they get a good coach. They then have the contracts, and maybe the assets to make the move for James while still having a good supporting cast.
Noc and Hughes
For much of the year
And lest we all forget, TT started the year ahead of him on the depth chart, and recently has been getting more burn than Noc is, so the fact that Noc was used as a crutch shouldn't be used against him.
for much of the year
Front-loaded or not, a 5 year deal?? Come on. You really want to pay a 29-yr old reserve who's most important assets are "energy" and "passion" for that long? If Paxson was really looking at him as a trade-chip, as you say, then don't you think he would have at least signed him to less than five? A 3-yr, $21 million deal looks better to me than a 5 yr, $38 million deal (or whatever it was that he got).
No matter how it's spun, Paxson knee-jerked at Memphis' slight courtship of Noce and it completely blew up in his face. I say blew up because now Noce looks worse than what the rest of the core guys looked like at the start of the season. Now he's left holding the pieces trying to figure out exactly how he got in this mess.
Noce started high, went lower, and now completely looks putrid. Everyone else started putrid and at least returned to mediocrity.
They are the offense off of the bench
there's a chance
Memphis turned down a Nocioni-included package, likely for that reason. Sure, they're especially cheap, but most 'rebuilding' teams don't want guys like Nocioni clogging up their cap.
Hindsight may get credit, but Pax is partially judged on foresight. I can't stand when media says "well I didn't hear anybody criticizing the move then...", as if we're held to the same standard as the freaking GM. Although, that point is moot here since I was against re-signing Nocioni then :-p
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
just think
another hit against Noc's 'worth'
But now, Pax has another chunky piece of expiring money in Gooden. Plus Hinrich (who also signed a frontloaded deal) is now more firmly on the tradeable list.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, the passion of Nocioni
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure
by messwiththebull on Apr 9, 2008 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
"shouldn't be held against him"
As in, Paxson should've seen that Nocioni would potentially be used as a crutch. And judging by the contract he gave Noc, Pax did see it and actually thought of it as a positive.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Irony...
<src img=http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/nocioni1_080409.jpg>
Well, that didn't work.
I was attempting to do this...
I reversed the HTML command. I am an internet failure.
wow
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
At least the have a Hungry Heart
The Hornets are the best
NO has a young, thin bench which I think will lead to a 2nd round exit in the playoffs this year. Therefore in the offseason they will want to add some depth to the bench. While Chandler and West are good starters, they don't really have any quality backup big men. Julian Wright needs to bulk up to play the 4 spot. Chris Anderson? Hilton Armstrong? Pass.
Enter a package starring Nocioni. He is playoff tested and will do the dirty work. Plus on the offensive end, he'll be another shooter for CP3 to pass too.
Contract wise, they don't have any expiring contracts. However, Mike James ($6 mil x 2 years), Mo Pete ($6 x 3 years), and Rasul Butler ($3.9 x 2 years) all have shorter contracts than Nocioni. None of those players play much either, so NO would be able to keep their core players together for at least 2 more years. The Bulls would get some crappy contracts and players in return, but they come off the books sooner.
The only downside I could see is that CP3 is due for an extension before the 2010/11 season. However, that season Peja's playoff disappearing body turns into a $15 million expiring contract.
not a bad idea
New Orleans is tax-conscious and have to re-sign Chris Paul, so they may be open to a long-term contract in Noc (especially if it decreases) if it means they save more yearly.
For instance, in 2009/2010, and Chris Paul's in the first year of his max deal...Noc is making $7.5m, and James+Butler's making $10.4m.
although, uh, the Bulls are trying to avoid the Tax as well. I'm assuming that you could flip a James/Butler contract easier in a later deal, however.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah sorry
By the way, I really believe the woes of the Bulls
Some of that can be blamed on the players themselves, but most of the culpability falls on the franchise.
They traded Eddy Curry for two lottery picks. They used those lottery picks on Tyrus and Noah, Once the two kids were drafted, they let them languish. Meanwhile, Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich all regressed this season, which is also a reflection of the way the franchise treats its players.
if you want to be uber-cynical
unless it's Thomas and Noah. Maybe they just have an entirely combative and negative staff, and a sleepy GM.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 9, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
C'mon now
Thabo has developed into what I consider a core piece with all-star potential. Noah looks like he's a solid piece as well. Tyrus has not developed but maybe we are all overrating Tyrus as well. It's just been that we haven't really had an opportunity to tell with him. The Bulls have developed their young players very well; they're just not superstars - or even all-stars.
The easiest and perhaps best way to develop young players is by placing a stud PG on the team. The Bulls don't even have "a" PG, nevertheless a stud PG. Look even at the effect Andre Miller has had on the formerly sad 76ers. Had the Bulls had a PG - let's hypothetically say they drafted TJ Ford instead and he didn't crack his neck - then I'd say Tyson would still be on this team.
by messwiththebull on Apr 9, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
you have to be kidding, right?
all the info
I don't get it
Noch is usually the most consistent player.
He usually makes 1 or 2 bonehead moves a game, which is why he shouldn't be out there at the end of the game. But what player plays a completely perfect game?
But as far as an all-around player he's more complete of a player then Deng, at this point.
His defense is better and he's more consistent.
Yes, Deng had potential, but potential doesn't mean squat unless you produce.
I don't get way everyone jumps on the "let's hate Nocioni bandwagon."
He busts his ass every play, which is more then I can say for the rest of the team. That's why he had a bad second half of the year. Noch can't stand losing, and since everyone else was screwing around, he tried to do too much.
And there's no reason why he takes Thabo's and Tyrus mins away.
PG Hinrich/Thabo
SG Gordon/Hughes
SF Deng/Noch
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Noah/Gray(Love next year)
What's wrong with that?
No one is out of position and I think that is a very good first and second team line-up.
I would rather have a guy on my team who is busting his ass all the time, as opposed to players who pouted all year because they didn't get the big bucks.
You want big bucks? Man up and play well before you're eligible for a contract extension.
by Ed on Apr 9, 2008 11:31 PM CDT reply actions
the franchise is a disaster in every way
check
inexplicably failing to play young talent in meaningless games? check
minimal options available (even if good FAs wanted to sign with this sleazy franchise) to sign this off-season? check
over-valued talent? check
and watch Pax grab one of the PGs in the draft...the one that doesn't work out.
by Orlando Woolridge on Apr 10, 2008 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Unbelievable post..
The problem has been the management of our high draft picks.
With the benefit of hindsight, drafting Ben Gordon instead of e.g using the pick as part of a trade or going for Iguodala and more importantly picking TT instead of LaMarcus Aldridge or Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay etc. is what has killed this team...
These errors need to be corrected this summer. IMO no one is untouchable, but we have reached the end of the road with this roster. Major re-shake is required together with a coach obviously...
So much for men being men
I can't play hard because a guy behind me in the rotation did get the contract he wanted.
BAB has crapped on Kirk, Gordon, and now Nocioni as if they or their contracts are the problem. They're not.
Seriously though, Nocioni's contract injured Luol Deng's foot, Ben Gordon's ankle, and Scott Skiles' job status.
Drink a bottle of beer. Now smash it over your head. Thank you.
it was either that
I think each didn't play hard because the other guy wasn't playing hard. Or not well. And their coaching staff (and therefore, management) sabotaged them.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
it's the politics of fanboiism...
since you've unsurprisingly validated
Hinrich wasn't the problem this year? Gordon? It's really all injuries and Skiles quitting on the team?
And I still have no idea what the 'men being men' thing means at all. (in life either, ba-zing)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
what it means
Noc made a poster last night. Dwight Howard's poster though. The team was down 15+ late in the 3rd and Noc was still challenging wide open dunks from Dwight Howard.
I have to write a rebuttal post to Sports2 now. I'm working now so I've only been able to post in spurts.
by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Noc must have
yes, all of Noc's too-late fouling
I'm not sure why Gordon's chucking is money-grabbing, while Noc's is 'just trying so hard for the team, goshdarnit'.
Also, I hate Noc's stupid face.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
and his stupid hair
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
you're on a roll tonight
yeah so ugly
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Preemptive rebuttal of your rebuttal
But, when I trace out how I think everything got broken and how everything might get fixed, it all runs through him.
Your point, as I see it, is that the real problem is that most of these guys are just plain unprofessional in their play and that shouldn't be blamed on Nocioni.
I agree in principle, but the truth is these guys aren't going to be motivated professionals all the time, and if they see shit going on around them they don't like, it affects them. We'd like to think getting millions of dollars will change human nature, but it doesn't. If anything, the NBA has proven over and over again that people are still susceptible to all the same kind of jealousies and failings everyone else has, even when they're rich.
That's the bad news. The good news is these are guys who, when properly motivated and put in the right roles, can probably be pretty good.
But that success requires good leadership and the ability to manage people, not just contracts. Just looking at "Noc as a contract", he's not a killer. Putting it in the context of everything else, resigning him made everything worse.
Bulls should hold training camp in South Dakota
You can trade Nocioni to the Raptors
Bargnani
Anthony Parker
Raptors 2008 1st round pick
Raptors get
Nocioni
Bulls 2008 first round pick
Colangelo won't want to lose Parker, but he'll give him up if it means he can trade Bargnani and get a lottery pick in return.
didn't we discuss this last week?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I told you already
The Raptors part with their rookies pretty quickly when they don't like the progress. They'll even trade garbage for garbage and hope for the best. See the Rafael Arujo deal for evidence.
by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
that doesn't answer
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
They wouldn't want him
I think you can change the back office Bulls staff faster and more affordably than you can the actual players. That's where the problems lie.
by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I also heard
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard that too
by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
if only we could find an unimpeachable
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
One exists
Have faith friend.
by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Bargnani wouldn't work out here long-term
They'd be moving from pick #9 to #16 in order to get Noc off the books. And Parker is the ::drool:: big guard we've wanted so, and he's only signed through next season.
I'd almost rather take big Rasho than Bargnani. Maybe deal them Thabo in exchange (we'll have Parker to take his place). He's foreign and therefore coveted by the Raptors. If that's not enough salary give them Red Kerr's poolboy, big Aaron. If that's not enough I don't want to manually figure out why.
The bigger problem I have is still that I think Toronto's getting hosed. They did give up on Arujuo and Villeneueva pretty quick, but Colangelo didn't pick those guys.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
gah I couldn't resist
for
Parker/Rasho/#16
works.
Man, then they have fat expiring deals with Parker, Rasho, and Gooden...right in the range where you could pair them with Gordon or Deng in a sign/trade. Plus I think all those guys have roles if they were to stay. Rasho is an actually useful Aaron Gray, and Parker is a slightly smaller yet more polished Thabo (if Thabo ever gets polished, 'natch)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
If you're dealing Thabo
It seems you just want expiring deals though. Does the Bulls back office give you any impression they're able to woo any free agents to the club?
by NBA Observer on Apr 10, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
expiring deals need not expire
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I also heard
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You don't like to answer questions
by NBA Observer on Apr 11, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
do I?
ubsurv that.(?)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Nocioni is not the problem
Thabo, Gooden, Noc, Noah.
Honestly, we need to blow it up, keep those guys, sign and trade away the rest of em. Whatever gets us the most value. We need to draft some beef, and we need to draft a taller scorer who plays D, and we should bring back Skiles.
For all of those who think I'm crazy for nuking Deng and Gordon, playing an elite squad, who does Deng cover on D? He's too slow to guard the quick SF, and to small to guard the PF. Its like he's a worse shooting Glen Robinson-
Lets remember that the way we got our first 3 rings was as much the D trifecta of Jordan/Pippen/Horace as it was Jordon's magic on the offensive end. At least with Thabo/Noah/Noc we have hustlers, and I think think Thabo and Noah both could be all league D.
I would bench Hughes, not play him at all, like we did with Tim Thomas. At least until he starts showing up consistently for practice. And he's the kind of guy they need consistently going to the hole, and basically never shooting 3's- long 2's at most like what they did with Deng 2 years ago.
We should trade up for best PG available, and Deng/Gordon/Kirk as bait. With a good PG, Thabo and Noah really benefit, as well as Tyrus.
Then its:
Drafted PG, Thabo, Tyrus, Noah, Gooden. Play Noc when/if Tyrus is too lost. If Tyrus can learn to play SF, he's a boatload quicker than Deng, so he can match up, and obviously our weakside help, and boards are better that way.
If the guys want to win, they have to D up, and run. If we get an awesome PG in the deal, we might even be better at the end of next year.
And we would probably still have Gordon or Deng or Kirk, just not all 3. I would use Hughes like a less hustling, less productive Noc, let him prove he wants to be a starter before giving him that spot. His shot selection and wandering around on D currently puts him on the bench.
I love how everyone seems to think
no kidding
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
add another team to the Noc wish list?
I'm sure, uh, Al Harrington can be had. (hey, at least his contract's better than Noc!). And of course, BaB-oddly-coveted-first-team Marco Bellinelli.
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/warriors.jsp
Man, they're going to have an interesting offseason: Davis, Biedrins, Ellis, Pietrus, Barnes, Azubuike are all potentially free agents.
Not sure which way they'll go. I think Noc could do well in their style, but would they want to try and save money to re-sign all those guys instead? Sadly I don't think they could do a deal for Noc unless it did involve Harrington, who they don't seem to really like, and they do have Brandon Wright ready to...do whatever he'll do.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions
how is that a better contract
by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
contrarian bot needs reprogramming (or oil)
Noc - 4/$29m
Harrington - 2/$19m
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
and if you knew that and chose to ignore it
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
but what about the epic struggle
by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
good point
like I said originally, I don't think the Warriors bother unless they can get rid of Harrington in the process, and that's not something I'm really excited over.
But perhaps the Bulls know they're making changes with their other players (including flipping someone like Harrington), so they assume they won't be over the tax when the offseason's over?
(Also, I'd say Deng's more cosmically significant.)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
btw
by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Shorter contract
In my ideal world, at least, go into that summer with a fairly solid team and the ability to make a credible pitch to one of the big time guys that'll be a free agent.
Maybe it's not the best plan in the world, but I don't see anything else that looks better, and it doesn't foreclose our possibilities for improving up to that point.
oh right
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
And if you look at the
As I said
I certainly wouldn't pass up a great opportunity if it came along sooner, but I don't see a better alternative than keeping our options fairly open at this point.
At least for a team that won't pay a penny of tax to get a star quality player, keeping all but your better guys on shorter term deals and trying to line up a time to have cap space seems like the best way to go.
What's the alternative?
Get rid of
Sign and trade BG to anywhere willing..
Trade Gooden for Belinelli and Barnes.
Noc new 6th man contract be more in line.
New line up
pg Mayo
sg Belinelli
sf Deng
pf Thomas
c Jono
Back ups
pg kirk
sg thabo
sf Noc
pf Barnes
C Gray
Name me one team who would take one Hughes and
by GranvilleWaiters on Apr 12, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
on
by GranvilleWaiters on Apr 12, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Ben and Luol were not comparing themselves to
by GranvilleWaiters on Apr 12, 2008 12:34 PM CDT reply actions
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