Mike D'Antoni and Avery Johnson available?
[ed. note: this is 'reportedly' going to be a big day in terms of possible coaching changes. Both D'Antoni and Johnson saw their teams bow out of the playoffs last night, and could both be fired today. Majoyenrac already started a fanpost thread on this, those thoughts are below.]
LET'S GET D'ANTONI
SI.COM is reporting that D'Antoni is leaving the Suns (I haven't had a chance to read that article--I will by half day today) but I heard news on ESPN also indicating that D'Antoni is gone from the Suns.
Here's the yet to be read article .
I know the Raptors job is soon to be open (speculation, but likely true) and that D'Antoni is a Collangelo guy, so they might be the favorites....but I would think for D'Antoni's sake that having a HUGE MARKET CHICAGO (one that lead the league in attendance at least as late as early April--I don't know if by the end fo the yr we still lead but we were probably no lower than #2 which is a surprise given the awful disappointment that was this year.
For a team (Bulls) who have been overly defense oriented, let's get a guy who's a brilliant offensive architect....one who can get the most out of Deng and Gordon and Hinrich....hell even Noc.
He'd also be a good guy to teach offensively challenged bigs like Noah and Tyrus to be effective.....
But the best thing about D'Antoni is that his reputation amongst the players as one of the best coaches to play for. Suddenly big market Chicago has a big market coach whom other free agents might flock to for a pay cut like we've seen with many other teams.
I think for Pax right now it's D'Antoni or bust, if he indeed is available and doesn't go to the Raptors....what do you think?
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336 comments
Comments
If you had read the article...
you would know he’s not out of Phoenix yet.
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on Apr 30, 2008 6:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ESPN.com is reporting he's likely out as well
I agree with majo though, D’Antoni is a class above the Carlisles and Thibodeaus. He invented (read as: brought over from Italy) a new style of NBA offense, made stars out of wash ups (Boris Diaw, Joe Johnson), and made a superstar out of an average player (Steve Nash). I’d love to see what he could do with Hinrich, Thabo, and Tyrus.
Throw the kitchen sink at ‘em, Pax! We might come out of this offseason okay after all. And what is Phoenix thinking…
by YaoPau on Apr 30, 2008 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about.
Joe Johnson hadn’t even had a full season before joining Phoenix and has has been just as good, if not better, since joining the Hawks. Diaw had played two total seasons before his Phoenix stay, had one good year before signing a huge contract and has quickly fallen back to so-so. Moreover, Nash was hardly an average player in Dallas, scoring about the same amount of points on excellent averages (though he did improve when he got to Phoenix) and still averaged between 7.5-9 assists with a similar assist to turnover ratio.
I am not saying that D’Antoni isn’t a good coach, but the players helped him as much as much as he helped the players.
by McCabe on Apr 30, 2008 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You also forget
That D’Antoni has had a lot of players say in the all star games etc that they’d love to play for him. I believe he’s won players polls for best coach to play for. He’s getting some vets to come on the cheap too, and could bring all that to a young team that is in the midst of building (vs a veteran team that now after Marion trade is too old).
Kerr F’d up that franchise. They should have won it all last year but the league jumped in and suspended their best player for the critical game 5. Learning from that mistake, when Garnett did a much more questionable thing in the Hawks-Celtics game, Stern decided to let him play….
D’Antoni is amongst the best coaches today. It’s damn tough to beat that Spurs squad and I don’t think Nash-Stoudemire-and old Shaq have anything on Parker-Ginobli-Duncan.
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Gilbert Arenas
He hates D’Antoni.
You have to play defense to defeat the Spurs. The Suns play almost no defense at all.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is D'Antoni a bad defensive coach
or are his players in Phoenix terrible at defense? I know I have heard him talk about imploring his team to play better d, but they never seem to get it.
Obviously, if he leaves Phoenix, Pax would be stupid not to pursue him, but keep in mind that a stout defensive team has a better shot at winning the title than a run and gun team that plays next to no defense. Its already a crazy off-season, and it’s not even the off-season.
Sidenote-If D’Antoni comes to the Bulls, isn’t almost necessary for Pax to bring in Pippen as an Asst Coach? I could see D’Antoni and Pippen gelling really well, and if their bball genious minds mind-meld effectively, that would mean good things for Chicago bball. Sorry everyone for always mentioning that Pippen should be an asst coach on this team, its just something I feel needs to happen for Thabo, Ty, and Deng to flourish. Plus, I would want someone on the bench with some NBA championship experience.
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to knock D'Antoni for defense
all by himself. I really don’t think he stresses defense in terms of solid rotations, helping your teammates, or when to double and when to not double. I think his defensive focus is “rebound the misses and give it to Nash”. It’s very likely a product of what system D’Antoni is pushing knowing what puzzle pieces he has to work with. Removing their best man defender in Shawn Marion exposed a bunch of sores that were already there.
At first I scoffed at the concept of Chicago hiring D’Antoni. However, this was also at a time when I was bashing Ben Gordon’s defense and blaming him for the defensive regression this season. Crapping on Gordon for the team defensive regression was wrong and pigeon holing D’Antoni as a coach based solely on what he has tried to do with what players he has had in Phoenix was also wrong.
The Phoenix bench should have come from the draft picks they acquired in the Joe Johnson trade. Some of the picks Phoenix traded became Rajon Rondo and David Lee. Want to guess what Phoenix would be like with those two guys ON THEIR BENCH? Scary. Factor in the trade of Kurt Thomas to Seattle to acquire a trade exception and you have to wonder who made that move? Was it Sarver trying to save money, D’Antoni not wanting a NBA proven vet big that can defend Duncan, or Kerr playing both Sarver and D’Antoni to make a move just to make a move?
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more note
D’Antoni is a lead assistant on Team USA as requested by Coach K and fully supported by Jerry Colangelo. The other assistants are Nate McMillan and Jim Boeheim. I doubt D’Antoni was assigned to coach defense, that was probably McMillan, but in the 2006 FIBA World Cup, Team USA couldn’t defend the pick and roll. Dwight Howard looked awful trying to defend it. The team basically sagged off the big setting the screen as if they could use speed to recover, chase the penetrating PG, and make a spectacular block. It never came. Greece killed Team USA with PnR, PnR, PnR over and over again.
We lost the Greece game and settled for the bronze. Greece ended up falling to Spain that was minus Pau Gasol.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right on Conor6!
Steve Nash was never a good defender, and wasn’t ever this good of an offensive player. He was good, all star worthy good, but never was great offensively. Then he’s teamed with D’Antoni’s system and he’s a 2 time MVP that really could have won at least 3 of them as his numbers surged last season, but the thinking was well he’s not as good as Dirk overall (whcih is probably right) and that I don’t even know if Jordan, Magic or Bird ever won 3 straight MVP’s…...
We have natural defenders in Hinrich, Noah, and Tyrus…..all have far more natural d abilities than Nash, Stoudemire, and modern Shaq.
We also have a lights-out D’Antoni styled player (Gordon), a guy who had been thought as a solid floor general if not a natural passer (Hinrich), a guy in Deng who can be far more effective offensively given his skill set in a fast break styled system like D’Antoni’s and Deng is a guy who has natural D abilities but doesn’t always play with them and everyone sans Matt knows that Nocioni can give you a bit of everything but is often made to look worse than he is on D because he tries to cover the switch, and his teammates this last yr were awful on the switch (it’s what Kirk was complaining about all yr in his “need to get better defensively” comments).
D’Antoni would be fabulous for us. We have talent, we’ve also got a possible DIAW styled player (with the same confidence issues) in Sefalosha, and we’ve got the most freakish athlete this side of Lebron and Josh Smith in Tyrus Thomas, who’s sure to shine with some more coaching (he’s only had a year and a month of mostly Skiles’ put downs and then the “no coaching is coaching” style that was Boylan.
Add in another nice big in Gooden, and the talented headcase that is Hughes, and who knows….and D’Antoni’s got enough respect that he can and will bench Hughes if Hughes doesn’t play the team game…..although who knows perhaps Pax can find someone to take Hughes…
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
D'Antoni is part of the Suns nucleus
that really liked Luol Deng and Thabo Sefolosha. I forget the details as to why the Suns traded Deng to us in 2004, but they were shocked when we coaxed the Sixers into selecting Thabo at #13 in 2006 and agreeing in principle to draft Rodney Carney at #16 which we then swapped and sent a 2007 2nd round pick and cash back to the Sixers.
Phoenix was picking at #21 and thought Thabo wasn’t that high on other teams’ radar.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, you talk like you're in the inner circle
but yes, there were reports about the Suns wanting Thabo. In that same draft, Danny Ainge said he would’ve taken Rajon Rondo #5 overall if he still had that pick…there’s a tendency to leak out these reports to make their selections look better.
The Suns didn’t trade Deng. They traded the pick before the draft for a future 1st rounder. It was (as if I’m in the inner circle…) to save salary cap space (picks have a cap hold) in order to sign a FA (which turned out to be Nash)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have not infiltrated the inner circle
but I also seem to remember comments during the last draft that the Suns were in love with Noah, too.
by kig on Apr 30, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe THEY didn't think so...
...but I thought they might. So I suppose others would as well. I was really high on Thomas and convinced the Bulls were going to take him. He was doing a chat on ESPN (a few others were, too, I think), and I tried like hell to ask him what he thought of probably going to the Bulls and possibly being taken with Thabo, and if he knew anything about him.
I think being so incredibly “right” about that draft was bad news because I’m way too sure of myself now.
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you probably heard of Thabo the same way I did
draftexpress had him going to the Bulls pretty early in mock-season.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe.
I don’t recall knowing what DraftExpress was until this past Fall (seriously, I’m Internet-browsing retarded), but I might have stumbled upon it, and then forgot.
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bird won three mvp's in a row
i love the no coaching is coaching…sums boylan up perfectly
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love D'Antoni
a whole lot more if Pippen was hired as an assistant. Call it the Doc Rivers effect. Rivers can’t coach defense. He finally admitted it and Ainge went out and paid Thibideau to do it for the Celtics. Yes, yes, acquiring Garnett is a huge, but Thibideau is getting defense out of Leon Powe, Eddie House and Paul Pierce. Pierce isn’t a bench player, but when you bring in Powe and House and get them to play defense it’s easy to see why they developed a +12 point differential in the regular season.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, thats what i was thinking
doc rivers knows next to nothing about being a head coach, except losing, then enter garnett and tom thibideau, and they have the best d in the league. i just think pippen and d’antoni would mesh really well, and winning would be the ultimate priority if someone like pippen was involved, and thats all i care about.
anyone who watched the 4th quarter of game 4 of the boston- atlanta series knows what i am talking about with doc. worst coach in the league not named jim boylan
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
since when can Pippen coach defense?
as a whole scheme, let alone the coaching-by-osmosis approach to the wing players.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ummm, yes, i guess you are right
i dont have any actual proof that Pippen would be a top tier defensive coach…But i would like to think of myself as a baseketball enthusiast, and I just have a feeling that Pippen would be able to teach defense well. Phil said Pipped was the smartest bball mind he ever coached, as well as the best all-around player.
Besides, those were the best moments with the bulls. they would be playing amazing defense which would turn into a turnover, which led to a fast break, which led to the bulls killing people, which led to 6 championships.
Like i said, i have no proof that it will translate into coaching success for pip, but call me crazy for thinking it would work in a D’Antoni system. fast break em to death by creating turnovers at the top of the key and the wings and run run run.
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because Pip was a great defender
Doesn’t mean he will be a great tactician. From everything we know of Scottie, he can’t get a head coaching gig until he learns how to talk to people properly. He speaks his mind way too much, and he often comes off as an ass, even though he’s far from it. Maybe he’s “old school”, but why will the roster listen to him when he basically shot everyone down only several months ago?
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
umm did you already forget about skiles?
yes it didnt work out in chicago, but skiles wasn’t unemployed for that long, and i consider him one of the better coaches in the NBA because he DOES speak his mind, and doesnt give a shit if that gets into trouble. and besides, do you really think pippen would fuck up his first gig by berating the team constantly, i doubt it. I thinks it safe to say that is pip were hired, he would do his best not be a “jerk”
was what pippen said about the current roster untrue? not in my opinion. and lets be honest, they are millionaires who are paid all that cash to win, and when you dont win, and look terrible, you are going to have things said about you that may seem a little harsh. its called reality.
Old school is what this team needs
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, maybe not Men yet
But the current roster is at least a group of “big boys” that can handle criticism from a former NBA player playing exhibition games in Finland for the money.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Below: What I am talking about
It’s true that Joe Johnson hadn’t played a full season before joining Phoenix, but D’Antoni wasn’t the coach of Phoenix until a year and a half later. And sure, you could look at Joe Johnson’s stats nowadays and say his progression was a no-brainer, but until D’Antoni came along he was a 41% shooter averaging just over 8ppg career.
Diaw went from a 43% shooter averaging 4.7ppg in 22mpg career to 52% shooting and a 13.3 – 6.9 – 6.2 line literally overnight with D’Antoni. It’s true his numbers have dropped, but that probably has more to do with Amare playing again than any drop in Boris’ ability.
And then there’s Nash, who went from two all-star games in his first eight seasons to two MVPs in his next two. I think you’re pushing it a bit to say there wasn’t much improvement… Dallas let him go for nothing! His FG%, 3PT%, and assists are all way up, and that’s all due to D’Antoni’s system.
Bottom line, there’s hundreds of NBA players with untapped potential, and D’Antoni has consistently been able to get the most out of his players when other coaches haven’t. I don’t see your argument that Johnson, Diaw, and Nash would be this good with or without D’Antoni when there are so many lottery picks wasting away on NBA benches (see: Tyrus Thomas, Cedric Simmons).
by YaoPau on Apr 30, 2008 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nash was already great
so all those other guys could be getting the most out of their careers because of Nash. Skiles had a good line that there was no system, Nash was the system.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don't think D'Antoni reinvented anything
he just gave Nash carte blanche to do whatever he wanted. Mostly it’s improvising off of a pick and roll. The bulls do some of that with decidedly poorer results, but that probably has a lot to do with their pf not being Amare Stoudemire more than anything.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that D'Antoni doesn't deserve credit
for letting Nash run amok. Most coaches wouldn’t allow it.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you make a guy your franchise player
you have to give him some kind of freedom.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tell that to Avery Johnson
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was just about to post that :)
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is why
Avery shouldn’t be very high on Pax’s list.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
although
the Bulls don’t have a franchise player, and likely more in need a controlling guy like Avery.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not Amare
Clearly he’s a big part of it, but the system works because of Nash’s incredible abilities to see the floor and know precisely what type of pass is necessary and the ability to make that pass with either hand. Plus he’s a deadly shooter from almost anywhere on the floor above or below the three point line.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how good would Nash look
if he were playing with Ben Wallace.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How good does anyone look?
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mmm, not so good
lol
That deal was so happening until the day Mick called Rob.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Nash was already great, regardless of system...
Then why did the Mavs refuse to pay him more than $9 mil a year? That’s less than the Bulls are paying Kirk Hinrich.
On that Mavs he was a 16ppg, 8apg guy with a pinpoint jumpshot and zero defensive ability. That puts him in Andre Miller / Mike Bibby territory. In D’Antoni’s system, he became a first-ballot Hall of Famer.
by YaoPau on Apr 30, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
durability and age concerns.
His final season with the Mavs he lead one of the best offenses in NBA history.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, Mark Cuban is an idiot?
He took the money that would have been used for Steve Nash and paid Ericka Dampier.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because of Avery
Avery knew Nash didn’t want to play any defense at all so why try and make him play defense? The Mavs still made a contract offer, but I think Avery knew all along Nash wasn’t going to come back and play for a coach that would bust his chops to play some D.
D’Antoni told Nash to forget about defense and Nash was thrilled.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really
Iheard it had more to do with Nash’s age—31? or so and the worry that Cuban would be paying for a guy who already had large back issues. Phx training staff has worked wonders….
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not ruling out age
Age is almost always a factor especially when you’re contractual difference are the number of years on a contract.
In the 04-05 season when Avery finally took over the Mavs finished 9th in DRTG. The year before, a full season with Nash and Nellie as their coach with Avery as an assistant, the Mavs were 26th of 29 teams in DRTG.
I really think Avery would have essentially clashed with Nash all the time if he was trying to instill a defensive presence in the team and all Nash could do was let people by him and maybe get a hand or two on a pass each game.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have a backing source for this?
Or is another, “I think, therefore I’m right.” sort of things?
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which part are you questioning?
The whole post was my opinion.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you need to phrase it that way.
(or at least try and do a better job of it.)
It almost always reads as the way Tyger described.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll try to make it more clear what is opinion
My usual gambit is that if my posts or thoughts are wrong the ruling from my peers will be swift to correct any inaccuracies or falsehoods.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. Simply put, "I think..."
...before saying Nash was ousted because of Avery. I don’t follow enough basketball to know when you’re just spouting B.S. Every once in awhile you do give a nugget of factual knowledge. I’d like to know the difference w/o having to consult google.
For instance, you say, “Tyson Chandler was traded for P.J. Brown because he didn’t get along with Skiles and they got a good trading chip in an expiring salary.”
I have no idea whether that’s actually true or just your opinion w/o looking it up. Anyway… I just figure you post everything like it’s factually true. I must have been wrong.
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK. I understand
I must admit, it will be difficult. The reason for that is that I read so many things, listen to so many things, and watch so many things that sometimes it is difficult to remember the exact quotes, where I ‘ubserved’ it, and how to parlay that information into a complete thought. One tool I used to employ for tracking political stories was a blogspot account connected to my mobile phone where I could just punch in the details of the TV or Radio show, the guests, the topic, the time, etc and push all those notes as there own blog postings.
What I can do now is merely state something like “My reading of the reports is…”.
I’m picking up things too as a way of better understanding other readers’ POVs. Matt’s posts have me reading Yahoo Sports more when I really didn’t read it at all prior to discovering BAB.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a yin and yang thing
Nash never would have been this effective if D’Antoni wasn’t the coach, but D’Antoni would never have been hired in the first place if Colangelo didn’t go out and sign Nash. I think D’Antoni can use his system on any team as long as there is an above-average PG. The better the PG, the more freedom he would allow him to run the offense. And, yes they did bring back the concept of running amok, which aside from the Kings and Mavericks of the early 2000s, no team really did or considered doing.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a note
D’Antoni was hired mid season in 03-04 as the head coach. In 2002 he was hired as a Suns assistant. So his hire predated the acquisition of Nash.
I think D’Antoni can use his system on any team as long as there is an above-average PG.
He won with the same system in Italy coaching Benetton Treviso. Wikipedia says his teams had a bunch of former NBA players.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go guys
http://www.blogmaverick.com/2004/07/03/steve-nash-part-1/
read this about two years ago, but i hope it answers everyones questions about the nash trade.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on Apr 30, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, his playmaker in Treviso was
almost 7 feet tall. I think Bulls fans know him, he’s originally from Croatia and his first name is Toni.
Or maybe D’Antoni started coaching in Treviso post Kukoc ? Don’t remember.
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on May 2, 2008 3:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not out yet
but expected to be out very shortly, they are awaiting an offer from another team to make the out be less negative from a Suns PR perspective, but all reports are that he wants out and that mgmt has turned on him….
That’s enough to speculate he’s out. I mean si.com and ESPN are saying the same thing on it too if you need more details behind that speculation. There’s a better chance that he’s out than he’s coming back….especially after the Shaq trade seemed to be anything but a D’Antoni move (I know there are some reports saying he was a Shaq guy too, but there are twice as many that say that move was purely a Kerr move….Pax has to make an offer and for the fans sake needs to make that knowledge public (have a leak) to add pressure to the Suns to make a move.
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 7:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
D'Antoni wanted Shaq
D’Antoni, Kerr, Riley, Sarver, and Arison have tossed the story back and forth like a hot potato all trying to dodge responsibility. Kerr says D’Antoni came to him with the idea of adding Shaq. Sarver says Mickey Arison called him about trading Shaq to Phoenix. D’Antoni has said he wanted Shaq.
Frankly, I wouldn’t want to stick around Phoenix for another season if I were D’Antoni. Shaq’s an immense liability. Popovich just replayed for the entire league what Phil Jackson showed the league as the Bulls coach. Hack-a-Shaq works because he sucks at making free throws. Do it when you’re in the lead and it’s even more effective.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it was 'sharing' responsibility
as much as dodging it. Had to put a brave face forward if you were D’Antoni, whether you thought it was a good move or not.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does this make sense if you're Kerr
Let’s see, my coach who’s been known as a great NBA coach who brought an entirely new system into the modern NBA on the offensive end, suddenly wants an old Shaq on the team who never even in his peak fit the main style that the coach had coached, and who made exhorbitant amts of money and is maybe 1/3rd the player he used to be. THe Shaq experiment failed, so being Kerr, he’s going to fire D’Antoni and yet sit out and take the blame alone for the next 2 years after the already old Shaq and much overpaid Shaq brings the Suns down to mediocrity and causes the Suns to pass on the chance to get Amare the championship or two that a player with his skills deserves….
All the while D’Antoni is out and in time folks assume he’s out because he disagreed witht eh Shaq signing (which all signs point would be true) even if D’Antoni had to say he was ok with the signing because his boss wanted it….
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant that
As how does it make sense if I’m Kerr to say well D’Antoni wanted Shaq and it didn’t work and so I’m going to take the fall for strangling my cap with Shaq the next 2 years because of a guy that my old coach who I already was not on the same page with wanted a guy whom everyone in the league knew was well behind his glory days-Shaq wasn’t even in the all star game from the popularity vote-something still crazy for a guy with the Shaq charisma and press…..now even the everyday Joe fan knows Shaq ain’t what he was….
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Essentially
if D’Antoni’s gone like all the rumors are said to be true it’s because Kerr got Shaq because it’s something Kerr wanted to do, and he thinks D’Antoni didn’t know how to use the big-ancient-capkiller.
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kerr's role in Phoenix is rather interesting
He put together the ownership group led by Sarver to buy the Suns. Kerr even owns a small share of the club. I think Sarver trusts Kerr to do what’s best for the team.
The acquisition of Shaq was muted on the cap issue. They sent 17 million in Marion and 5 million in Cedric Banks back to Miami. Mickey Arison probably loved the deal. He knew Shaq was a liability.
The Suns have traded key players and draft picks just to avoid the luxury tax. They’re still about 4 mil over the tax rate for the 07-08 season.
Kerr likely hires a new coach that will run a similar offense, but will stress defense beyond just letting the other team score so you can get another offensive possession.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kerr's an evil genius
and we don’t notice because he’s so boyishly handsome.
All the flak for the Shaq trade is instead falling on D’Antoni.
Plus, if Kerr ever does get canned, he can just walk back to a TNT job.
No wonder he’s so BOLD.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure on the dollars it's muted
But how can you say the 37 and 38 (or even 36, 35, 34) yr old Shaq’s were better talent wise these days and athletically than the 31 yr old Marion is and was?
Add to that that Marion could and likely would have opted out this yr if he was still in Phx giving the Suns room to find a replacement and there’s $16M of offseason money right there fore them.
Instead they have a lumbering old VERY MUCH overpaid SHAQ who’s eating 30% of their cap for the next 2 years and who is completely unmovable….
They’d have been better off keeping Marion than doing what they did, even a disgruntled Marion as he can always be moved.
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keeping Marion, let him opt out
Add to that that Marion could and likely would have opted out this yr if he was still in Phx giving the Suns room to find a replacement and there’s $16M of offseason money right there fore them.
Not necessarily. Since Marion was a Suns draft pick it gives the Suns some flexibility to break the cap to pay Marion that they wouldn’t have if they were trying to pay a player like Steve Nash. Teams can exceed the cap to resign their own players without entering luxury tax territory.
The salary cap is what 56 mil this year and the luxury tax is 67 mil.
This is why the Suns front office moves to trade every single draft pick made little sense. The draft is the best way to improve your bench.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suns traded draft picks to avoid having to pay them to stay under the luxury tax threshold.
They probably would not have maxed out Marion for that very reason. His next raise could take him close to $20 mil/year.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weren't they over the luxury tax threshold anyway?
Hoopshype numbers show them with salaries in excess of 71 million for 07-08. Subtract Oneal’s 20 mil and put Marion’s 16.5 and Banks’ rough 4 mil back in the picture and they’re actually saved money a paltry amount of money in the deal.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They may have saved money this season
They wouldn’t have necessarily saved it next year if they’d retained Marion. Marion’s made it quite clear that he wants to be more than the third best player on a team and actually have plays run for him. To get there, he was going to have to opt out and leave the Suns. Trading him for Shaq was terrible execution, but the idea of trying to get something in return for Marion this season made sense.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I didn’t pile on the “Bash the Suns” train after the deal was made because I knew the Suns were either going to face this devil at the trade deadline or in the off season where Marion would have the leverage.
I’m curious what kind of contract a player with unique talents of Marion will yield in an open market or from the Heat. In 16 games with the Heat he rebounded more misses, but his one additional shot per game sunk his FG% 7 percentage points.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would have been better off holding on to Marion and making a run for the title
The Shaq trade killed any chances of them winning it all
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And could maybe bring David Thorpe's player-development favorite Phil Weber.
Did Pax and Kerr ever cross paths? Would that matter?
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 7:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not his favorite...
...but just someone he’s mentioned multiple times since Skiles was fired as a good head-coaching candidate for the Bulls.
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls inquiring about Avery too?
Sources say that the Bulls, anticipating Johnson’s exit, have already had internal discussions about the possibility of hiring him
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 8:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
While I don't like
all of these options, it does seem like the Bulls are lucky to be getting a larger pool to pick from than they would have had in previous years. Waiting might not be such a bad idea.
by cranscape on Apr 30, 2008 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear God no
Hasn’t anyone seen him getting outcoached in 3 consecutive playoff series?
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please, please, please
read the article before you put up a diary about it. Even joejoe read the articles. This has to be a new low, or another sign that the blogabullapocalypse is near.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 9:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
there's no low
This thread is to jabber about both being available and how they’d be fits for the Bulls (or not). E-Bucher reports are just window dressing.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
though as a general rule...
yes, you should read articles before posting them. I only promoted this fanpost (what’s a diary?) because there was already discussion on them.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I’m totally at fault, I was trying to get this out because I heard the talk on ESPN news and was on my way to work today. Shame on me. I did read the article though before I started later conversations.
So I heard the talk on ESPN thsi morning and they said it was coming from si.com and so I just grabbed that link and didn’t have time to read because I was basically out the door (shouldn’t ahve admitted that I know, but oh well). So I posted on the ESPN hearsay…..but then read the article and they just reiterated what si.com said.
I couldn’t link you to that ESPN news segment, or I defiantely would have….I could have just said ESPN News is reporting, but then I found the link on SI.COM and posted that (it was a solid article and I didn’t have time to really read it then)....sorry about that.
BTW: is “your friendly BullsBlogger” still Matt? Or is there a new guy running this show in the new format?
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt is immortal
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: BTW
yes, one in the same.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you're
Still as “friendly” as ever then eh?
Like the changes, especially now that I’ve learned of the “z” button….because before it took me 2 weeks to really get involved here….since I haven’t had as much time travelling due to work and because I didn’t know how to see the new vs. the old posts…
But I’m back! (false cheer).
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one
who sort of likes George Karl as a candidate better than both of these guys? I have a little trepidation over coaches who’ve only had one job, which was a pretty plush one. Not as bad as coaches with one job that have crapped the bed, but still…
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 9:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you might be
he’s like a less accomplished larry brown. I’m sure he’s a nice guy, but who has he ever coached up?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all of his teams?
tough to gauge that. After watching Denver play it looks like a coaching miracle they won 50 games.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they only played the lakers
3 or four times before that. Denver has as much talent as anybody and probably more concentrated in their top 6 than most. They should have finished better than 8th.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whom should they have finished above in the West?
Don’t forget, they were missing Nene and Chucky Atkins the bulk of the season and still made the playoffs.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
back to back road losses
to us and the Bucks late in the season helped them secure the 8th spot.
Win those and they’re the 7th seed instead of the 8th. Playing New Orleans wouldn’t have been much better though.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's pretty confident about his goofball management skills
Some would say that’s his flaw, but the Bulls aren’t bringing in Anthony Mason, and his teams always play well until internal problems reach critical mass.
I like that Karl seems to adjust his strategy to the roster. Whether it’s playing fast, slow, ignoring defense, or playing a lot of defense. I like the flexibility, and he seems to do a good job coaching both ends of the floor.
by hscs on Apr 30, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a better way of putting
what I meant when I said I was more comfortable with him because he’s had a lot of successful jobs, not just one (or none).
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always like Karl
I don’t know exactly what you mean by “coached up,” but I think his Seattle teams (particularly the 95-96 team that played the Bulls in the finals) played way, way above their talent level. Look back at their roster. Yes they had Gary Payton at the peak of his effectiveness, but they also had the strangest head case maybe in the history of the game in Shawn Kemp, Detlef Schrempf, Hersey Hawkins…and those guys won 64 games.
I know KT has said he did something very bad at Milwaukee (and I’m sure she’s right—she’s like one of those mentats out of a Frank Herbert novel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentat), and he’s also had some weird issues(were there some inappropriate race comments somewhere back there?), but he’s always seemed to me to be a coach who played to his players’ strengths and got a lot out of them.
If he became available, I’d take Karl in a second…but maybe only after D’Antoni, who is the only name mentioned so far that’s actually got me excited about a possible Bulls future coach with the present personnel.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Apr 30, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they also lost the year before
as the #1 seed to the eighth seed. Shawn Kemp was an all-time great until he snorted himself out of the league and Schrempf and Hawkins were at the very least above average. You don’t win 60+ games by accident.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm saying, bullshooter,
is that Karl seems able to handle a head case (Payton and Kemp)...and that ability would certainly have come in handy with this Bulls team.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Apr 30, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he handled them one year out of a half dozen
he had ray allen, glen robinson, sam cassel and tim thomas in Milwaukee and only made it to the conference finals once. He’s got Melo and AI in Denver and can’t win more than one game in the first round? He’s got a great regular season record, but hasn’t done anything in the playoffs. What’s amazing to me is that he keeps getting good jobs. He’s been in Denver for four years already.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Melo and AI
give up more open jumpers than any other guard combo in the league. Somehow, this Denver team has one of the best defenders in Camby, yet gets smoked every single game. Its not just cause of the high number of possessions they’re awful defensively and that kind of worries me about Karl.
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
by jpchi on Apr 30, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm an idiot
guard-forward combo^
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
by jpchi on Apr 30, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that Milwaukee group
was supposed to do more? Looks like a similar issue with Denver, with the best players unwilling to play defense.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
defense is coaching
Karl’s supposed to get BG to play better D?
Karl has been to the playoffs 17 times in 20 years and lost in the first round 10 times. 6 of those times his team finished first or second in their division. Sounds like a story I’ve already heard about these bulls.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, the Bulls currently are beyond suck
so that’d all be an improvement.
I agree that a coach can get teams to defend, which is likely why the Nuggets have been above average in defensive efficiency the past 4 seasons.
Quoting Karl’s playoff finishes reeks of the argument (at the time) against acquiring Pau Gasol. Phil Jackson isn’t walking through that door.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Karl's got a 20 year history of coming up small
Gasol only had a 3 year history. It’s not like Karl is a young up and comer…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: "Karl’s supposed to get BG to play better D?"
Gordon’s a bad defender, but the team has Hinrich, Deng, Noah, Thabo and Thomas a nucleus of players who are above average individually, and possibly great together. I don’t think the aforementioned Denver or Milwaukee teams had that.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
more of this please
You’re right. I’m a convert. BG’s individual defense is terrible, but the team did mask that effectively for three seasons, er regular seasons really.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, I admit
it did all fall apart against Detroit, who are masters at exploiting individual matchups.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you listed a starting five
that doesn’t include the guy who scores the most. Do you really want more first and second round flameouts?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starting???
More strawman, please.
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly
A strong offense and little defense might get you a season or two of high level performance, but strong defense is what makes it last. You know you’re not going to shoot 50% or better all the time, so any help you can get to support sub par shooting nights from your defense is absolutely critical.
The Karl teams with some semblance of team defense win 60 games. The fact that he can a team to 50 wins with almost no team defense is rather remarkable.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally agree
Karl keeps getting in good situations, but never takes the team to the next level. George Karl is Avery Johnson with more years under his belt. He’s good at making adjustments (something this team needs) but he’s very much a re-tread if there ever were one.
How do you have a team with A.I., Melo, and Camby and only get an 8th seed, and then lose in the first round?
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get matched with the Lakers
Not that Phil Jackson knows anything about beating Karl teams. The Lakers are very good. I didn’t think they’d sweep the Nuggets. I thought it would be a 5 game series with the Nuggets taking one in Denver.
Maybe that bus fire really spooked them. Or maybe the Lakers are just really good and firing on all cylinders.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Denver would put up more of a fight as well
but they gave up pretty easily. That’s on Karl too, obviously, and why he’ll likely be fired.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one could coach that team to a series victory
They don’t try, and they never did.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Karl is fired
I hope he finds a job coaching the Knicks!
Then the eastern conference teams again won’t have to worry about beating the Knicks for even longer..
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would've been hard
for ANY team to beat LA the way they are playing right now. But come on, to get swept?? With the kind of potential firepower that they have?? That series should’ve went 6 games at the very least. Denver underachieved (like the Bulls) all year long. Most of that (not totally fair) is on the coach.
It’s not that I think Karl is incompetant or not capable, but it just seems like he’s had his opportunities.
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you want to try to get AI, Melo, and JR Smith
to play defense? Karl had a difficult time getting them to defer to teammates or make a dribble move to get a better shot opp. When Karl has problems getting offensive players to play better offense you pretty much are a lock to get the players that don’t play defense to do nothing more than give up buckets on the defensive end.
Nuggets were first in steals and first in blocks because of pace.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see your point
but I don’t buy that argument…just because someone struggles on the offensive end, they shouldn’t care about defense? First in steals and blocks because of pace? How were able to come to that conclusion?
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not an argument I'm really comfortable making
because the stat arguments are something I’m still learning.
But the Nuggets led the NBA in pace factor which is an estimate of the number of possessions per 48 minutes. Lead in pace = most possessions per 48 = more possessions to get steals, blocks, etc.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait, isn't a possession
considered to be when YOU have the ball? How does a possession equal a chance to get a steal? Maybe I’m not reading you right, but it would seem that leader in pace would equal opportunities for OTHER teams to get more steals, blocks, etc…
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who do you think gets the ball
in between all those Phoenix possessions?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on Apr 30, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also have Camby and Iverson
Each of them are among the best at blocks/steals.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a clarification
just because someone struggles on the offensive end, they shouldn’t care about defense?
The players should care about defense. My argument is that Karl faces challenges on the offensive end with a roster filled with high level offensive talents(Iverson, Melo, Smith, Klieza[all have had 40+ point games THIS SEASON]). He has a difficult time trying to get the 5 man units to spread the floor, move the ball, until it lands in the hand of the player with the best shot opportunity. The problem is the Nuggets players all want to take the shot as soon as they have it even when one more swing pass leads to the wide open teammate. When you have two players that draw double teams or pull bigs out of the paint it’s especially alarming when they cannot drive and kick, then swing to the wide open shooter.
Karl has to twist arms just to get he offense flowing. On defense he’s starting with a roster full of recluse defenders. They’re far too independent to work together as a team on defense. The last time the franchise did do that was with Mutombo in the middle and a supporting cast of lesser known names. Even with Camby in that similar position, the Nuggets defensive supporting cast just isn’t very interested in rotating, moving, or even trying to flow as a defensive unit. Camby can’t block everything and rebound everything.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's add Martin and Najera to the Nuggets 'All-Defensive' squad
You are right in the fact that it’s their best offensive stars (namely Melo, Smith, Iverson) who have a problem playing ‘team’ defense.
by RogersPark Kris on Apr 30, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
flaws aside
Denver ended up 11th and 10th in OE and DE. That could better, and Karl has coached teams that played better than that, but he isn’t holding anyone back. His Milwaukee teams featured 4 players with sky-high USG%s, and were ranked among the top ten offenses, including a 1 and 2 spot.
by hscs on Apr 30, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because the west is really good
AI and Melo don’t contribute defensively, Camby isn’t that great, and the whole team kindof got sick of playing together and for Karl.
Where are these ‘championship’ coaches? There’s even fewer of those as there are title teams, as Phil did it twice.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, the west is good
and that speaks to the fact that they shouldn’t even have been in the 8th spot in the first place. No other west playoff team is a defensive juggernaut, maybe other than S.A. All Karl had to do was get them to act like they gave a darn on the defensive end, because they have as much, if not more offensive firepower as the rest of the teams
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cherry-picked 'coaching up' stat
Coached by Jeff Bzdelik (13-15), Michael Cooper (4-10) and George Karl (32-8)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe coaches' scheming matters little on W/L's.
(and I think you’d agree)
Especially when you’re talking on the difference between Karl, D’Antoni and Avery. The systems and types of teams they run can be vastly different (e.g. D’Antoni compared to Carlisle), but I think we’d all agree that Ray Allen, Sam Cassell, Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony, Marcus Camby, Amare Stoudamire, Steve Nash, Shawn Marion, Dirk Nowitski, Josh Howard, Jason Terry… had more to do with the teams winning than the coaches.
The only thing I’m worried about from a coach is making the players the Bulls have better. D’Antoni (more than the others?) took over with a somewhat young, undeveloped team and has developed very good players. Of course, that could (probably?) be the work of Steve Nash on the court, and the aforementioned Phil Weber off the court.
I personally think the best approach is to get the coach wanting to prove himself that also has a dedication to maximizing the players’ abilities. Give him a 3-year deal and evaluate the X’s and O’s along the way. If I was Paxson, I’d take that risk and go that way.
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right you Are
Just switch Garnett & Drew Gooden, and tell me who would be headed for the Easter Conference finals right now.
by Cannoli on Apr 30, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
George Karl
Paxson – Bulls – Nightmare on Madison Street. Please don’t ever make this pairing happen..
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 10:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Paxson and the Bulls are already paired
sorry, exult.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I meant!
Trifecta, because the pairing also isn’t working
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry if this was mentioned already
but the SI.com report was written by someone especially in the know.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice
I don’t know why McCallum is soft on D’Antoni to the Raptors. Why wouldn’t the Raptors be interested? Mitchell is basically using the D’Antoni system, but if you can get the real thing why not?
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think Colangelo would be the 1st to call Mike?
It’d be a reunion of epic proportions, and probably the greatest Euroball team in the world.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps Colangelo and D'Antoni aren't as chummy as we thought?
Colangelo basically left because D’Antoni was taking more and more of the GM duties.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taking the GM duties
or just losing the war of voices in favor with Sarver. I don’t think Colangelo was thrilled with all the dumping of draft picks to save money. The draft was how the Suns were able to become so good so fast. Amare, Marion, Barbosa were all Colangelo selections. The trade of Joe Johnson for Diaw included two first round draft selections. One of those Hawks picks became Rajon Rondo who was then traded to Boston along with Brian Grant. Colangelo had already departed before the Rondo selection.
The stop order in Toronto is the fact that Sam Mitchell is still there using his own version of the 7 second shot clock.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention Luol Deng
Can you imagine the 06-07 Suns with Rondo and Deng?
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As NBA 2K8 tells me every freaking game
the Suns traded away Deng’s rights to make cap room to sign Nash.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dang (deng?)
you (or I guess NBA2k8) beat me
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Raptors ranked 22nd in Pace.
They tried to adapt to D’Antoni’s system last year, but didn’t have the players for it. Colangelo let Mitchell go his own way to try to make a better fit for the team.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of Mike D'Antoni coming to coach the Bulls
My only problem is that I feel he seems a bit burned out and would benefit from a year off. I think that the playoffs losses and the weight of unmet expectations would still haunt him. Unfortunately the Bulls don’t have that luxury to wait and compounded with the fact that LB is gone, Mike D is the best choice available (outside of my man Hubie Brown of course ;P ) .
Maybe getting away from the daunting mountains that are the spurs dynasty and the upcoming Laker reign will prove to invigorate him in Chicago. Now, if he can only bring Nash with him…
by RogersPark Kris on Apr 30, 2008 10:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If he does get fired....
Yes, D’Antoni is the best candidate out there. We can go on about Nash being a fine player in Dallas, but in reality you could say he’s the lucky guy who had the 2 head coaches in the league who knew how to maximize his talents and let him run wild. I think he could do great things with the confidence level of our players.
However, if Paxson does hire him, D’Antoni is a guy who demands complete control of the team’s roster. Kerr went over his head on the Shaq trade, and clearly they weren’t on the same page, which is why this site is laying the red carpet out for him.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's ok
Paxson doesn’t speak up with input on the roster anyway. Or come up with a list of possible coaches. Or even coaching styles….
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect situation! then
for Pax, he’s an executive that does want to make decisions concerning the team.
D’Antoni wants more and Paxson does mind giving 95% of his GM responsibilities away.
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone think of Nash's performance in Phoenix
as the model of success when you agree with Steve Nash to not play defense?
It’s like asking Dennis Rodman to score points. He’s not very good at it so cover it up the best you can with players that will score a lot of points(Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc) but still will play defense at a high level.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it's an even bigger problem
that Amare also doesn’t play defense.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Bulls want D'Antoni, they better hurry
Sam Mitchell is probably going to be sent packing the second D’Antoni becomes available. To be honest, Toronto’s probably a better job than the Bulls. I’d take Bosh and Calderon over anyone on the Bulls. I’d be happy with D’Antoni or Avery, though.
by Big D on Apr 30, 2008 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's likely true
you’d hope Chicago would have some sort of ‘big-market’ advantage, if anything.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but it seems like
Toronto has a better financial situation to reshape their roster. of course, if you’re right about the GM friction, then we may be good.
by Sko on Apr 30, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, who knows if Sam Mitchell is out
I think their team is fine if they can just trade TJ Ford for a real small forward, possibly another rebounder.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Nocioni
Get it done already.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're preaching to the choir
All of us know that trade has to happen, whether action Paxson does is another story.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would be a good look
but I think if Miami falls out of the top two lottery spots, Toronto will try to package Ford for Marion
by Sko on Apr 30, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting idea
Is there any public sourcing that Toronto has interest in Marion? Colangelo would probably want Marion if he can find a way to afford him without parting with Bosh or Calderon.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant more in terms of
Chicago can pay more, and it’s more high-profile job.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on D'Antoni's psyche
He’s probably pissed as hell that all of the blame is going to him after his roster was completely changed with a midseason trade that he probably didn’t want in the first place. You made an interesting point about Colangelo/D’Antoni friction, which leads me to believe that Paxson could lure him here. Pax really doesn’t demand control over the team, he just wants players who are not going to cause trouble on or off the court.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reassigned Need?
“he just wants players who are not going to cause trouble on or off the court”
Paxson should then be reassigned to the position of team chaplain…
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's this rumor going around
that you’re not a big Paxson fan.
by RogersPark Kris on Apr 30, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I enjoyed the shot that he hit
in the finals against the Suns.. what could be more fitting if he again screws the Suns and steals their coach from the same other guy (GM Kerr) who forced him into retirement. He already got rid of the (first other guy) BJ Armstrong.
Paxson show some grit!
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, Injuries forced Paxson into retirement
and by retirement I mean the radio booth also known as a temporary position until our present GM or player personnel guy gets fired.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clone?
NBA Observer, you may recall better, but wasn’t BJ Armstrong a skills level clone of Paxson in a younger body? Neither was a true PG?
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost a clone
Armstrong was a better defender and a better dribbler and by extension of that skill a better penetrator, but overall the club viewed the two as very similar players. Armstrong was drafted to insure the club had a quality backup PG. Due to injuries to Paxson and better play from Armstrong he eventually moved into the starting PG position. That may have phased Pax a little bit, but I think he came out of the situation like a pro, took on his new role, and still contributed with superb postseason shooting in the first 3 titles.
BJ was a guy the Bulls also drafted so that MJ would never have to play the PG position ever again even though Phil really would resist the urges to play Michael at the PG.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh
neither was a true point guard? neither was an aggressive point guard maybe…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 1, 2008 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a reasonable request for a GM
Seeing as how most fans will root for a group of guys who are essentially good-natured than a team full of Zach Randolphs and Stephon Marburys.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isiah and Paxson
proved both extremes don’t work..
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most fans will root for a winning team, and care about nothing else
Even the Jail Blazers didn’t see their attendance figures drop off until they started losing games. Portland fans were more than happy to root for a registered sex offender like Ruben Patterson while they were winning.
by Big D on Apr 30, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
endorsements or salary?
Matt.. Jerry going to pay a coach big? Dolan’s NY money is hard to compete against. Expect the Knicks to make a quick attempt to hire. The problem with D’Antoni is he really enjoys his job and like to coach and wants to really win which doesn’t mess while with NY current roster.
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Reinsdorf will pay more?
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
by jpchi on Apr 30, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
than Toronto?
sure.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about New York?
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paxson speaks ..
“I’m going on vacation, and when I return I’ll wait until I see how things play out, and then at that point I’ll shorten the lists of candidates. Afterwards after I have meetings with Jerry and my staff we’ll review all of the candidates and see if any others are available that we missed. No promises, but before the start of the 2008-09 season we should have a new coach”
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for real
feels like he’s been on vacation for a while
by Sko on Apr 30, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
you’re like a uber-cynical bird on my shoulder, exult. Some days I enjoy it more than others.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's "going on vacation"?
I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
by Orlando Woolridge on May 1, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a joke
he was being sarcastic
by NormVanBeer on May 1, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The mark of a good satirist...
nice little piece there, exult
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 1, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calderon?
Surely, you jest. Do you think Toronto would trade Calderon for Deng? Or even Ben Gordon? Or Noah? Or Kirk? Or Tyrus? Or, dare I say it, Gooden? In a New York (Toronto) minute.
by Cannoli on Apr 30, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calderon had a 20.5 PER this season.
Of the current Bulls, only Larry Hughes has been able to top that. Surprisingly to me, Drew Gooden came pretty close to that 3 years ago. Calderon is older than Deng and Gordon, but he’s still only 26. I’d take him over anyone on the roster right now.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring in D’Antoni! The defense will be fine
The Suns defensive woes were not D’Antoni’s fault. Nash, Shaq, Amare, Barbosa, Diaw, etc all have well documented medical allergies to defense that have spanned their entire careers.. The only significant players with defensive skills for the Suns were Bell, Johnson, and Marion… and of course the latter 2 bolted out of Phoenix.
The Bulls have a core group that is actually interested in playing defense (Hinrich, Sefolosha, Deng, Tyrus, Noah). Under D’Antoni they may never reach a Skiles level of defense, but they will still be better than average as a team. Of course their drop in defense will (hopefully) be offset by a huge increase in offensive output.
by shoryuken on Apr 30, 2008 11:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hear hear!
I like that on this post D’Antoni is criticized as a terrible defensive coach and the Suns are called a terrible defensive team. While they’re not a great defensive team, they were at the exact center in terms of defensive efficiency this season, at 16th in the league. That’s average, not terrible. Last season they were 13th, also known as slightly above average. In ‘05 – ‘06 they were 16th again. While they may always be near the top of the league in points allowed, it’s lazy and negligent to use that stat as an indicator of defensive prowess.
Also, it seems to me that D’Antoni probably could coach an above-average defense, given that he got a league-average defense while giving big minutes to Nash, Stoudemire and Barbosa – players generally regarded as terrible defenders.
(Stats available here: http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2008/ )
by Petor on Apr 30, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the SI article talks about changes Kerr wanted
one of which was spending more practice time on defense
by Sko on Apr 30, 2008 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Another thing to talk about
Who the hell do the Suns hire if they fire D’Antoni? Do they just give Steve Nash the unofficial title till his back breaks in half?
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
update: Kerr has denied the D'Antoni story
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3375058&categoryId=2459788
He plays the often used “we’ll evaluate” line…
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't we need a coach relatively, err, soon?
Shouldn’t we hire a coach well in advance of the draft and the free-agency period, so that he has sufficient time to assess his options with management?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on Apr 30, 2008 1:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That makes far too much sense.
When is the last time the Bulls hired someone in the offseason? Maybe they aren’t familiar with the concept.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the lottery isn't for another 4 weeks
So that should be the timetable. Of course, Pax said he doesn’t believe in one….but he’s possibly lying to make himself look stupid, and doing a good job at it.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it also might be a reaction
to the fact that skiles had too much input last time. Pax isn’t going to let the coach choose the players as much this time hopefully.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on May 1, 2008 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Avery's now officially available
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You wonder what it would take for him to have retained his job
Maybe one road playoff victory? He hasn’t one on the road in the playoffs since game 7 of the 2006 WCF.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he would have had to at least gotten to the second round.
When you’ve had three successive seasons as legitimate title contenders, you can’t fall back on bad match ups as an excuse for going out in the first round twice. That team has gotten pretty thin while they rebuilt the roster for Avery. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them try to do a quick rebuild over the next couple seasons. Too bad Paxson probably doesn’t approve of smoking weed, as I heard David Dupree say on yesterday’s Tony Kornheiser Show that Josh Howard will probably be shopped.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad Deng didn't sign
We could have swapped players with what should be identical contracts. Mavs would still get a scorer. Bulls would get a scorer with better handles.
I like Howard’s length. He’s my Western Conference Pippen clone. Tayshaun Prince the EC version.
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe we should get Howard to coach defense
even if Deng signed he’d be BYC (yeah you know me!)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
they really do resemble each other…Howard could just pick right up on Lu’s groupies
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Choices for Paxson
At the very least Paxson will have a couple of incredible options. Van Gundy would be a great defensive coach for a team with great defensive tendencies and D’Antoni would be a great offensive coach for a team that can run and shoot and is the youngest in the league.
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 30, 2008 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
avery johnson...HE GONE!
i like avery, its probably better for him, his career as a coach, and his sanity to get away from cuban. hopefully cuban will just name westphal as the head coach
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 1:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
Would not mind seeing Avery in Chicago
Insert clever and witty remark slash pun here!
by ES46NE10 on Apr 30, 2008 1:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Um, we already had him
His name was Scott Skiles, and it did not end well.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
now has one more thing in common with Skiles
Avery’s probably not liking Jason Kidd right about now.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It Is Possible
To be a disciplinarian without being a Scott Skiles clone. Just by playing the young guys he’d be doing a better job.
Insert clever and witty remark slash pun here!
by ES46NE10 on Apr 30, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with ya
although I’m more concerned that he likes a slower-paced game.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The next coach
Do you want to avoid a coach like Avery or Popovich that calls plays late in the game on every possession?
by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's worse than Skiles
Skiles just talked shit about Thomas, Avery was so fed up with Harris that he had him traded, along with Diop, their 2 young players on that roster.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
you think Cuban didn’t call that shot?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to support this,
Avery actually talked about how he liked Harris and didn’t want to see him go in his little exit espn.com interview.
Well, says Truehoop, anyways.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-139/Avery-Johnson-Sounds-Like-a-Devin-Harris-Guy.html
by Prevenge on May 1, 2008 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
Cuban was the guy who called Harris untouchable several times as well. My point was that Avery had very little trust in Harris, so they went out and got a PG he could turn the offense too. Yet, he still didn’t completely relinquish control of the offense. Avery had always wanted a PG who could be the floor general he was.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on May 1, 2008 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many Skiles similarities for Avery?
http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=424
The words “Doghouse” and “no team leaders” stuck out.
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 30, 2008 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
losing always brings the worst
i hate reading columns/blogs after a team is eliminated or loses an important game…of course everything the coach has done in the present and past is going to look bad. After reading that you would think he’s even worse than Boylan.
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm always entertained by how similar fans of different teams sound
Of course, very rarely are any of us speaking in a league-wide comparative sense with any degree of objectivity. ;)
My Bulls may suck, but my Jayhawks are National Champs!
by wjb1492 on Apr 30, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how MJ feels
didn’t he hire Vincent because he wanted a young, up and coming coach in the mold of Avery? If he would’ve only waited 2 more days he could’ve had the real thing
by NormVanBeer on Apr 30, 2008 2:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
now he has a defense-preaching coach
who does more than yell, and there’s a North Carolina connection (my insiders tell me that).
by hscs on Apr 30, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd
prefer D’Antoni over Johnson. A lot more experince but on the other hand johnson has proven he can win.
by bu11s on Apr 30, 2008 3:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You have to take
in consideration who they’re playing.
by bu11s on Apr 30, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd also prefer D'Antoni
Mainly because I think our D is already there, we just need some focus, but I think our D suffered mostly this year because suddenly our formerly avg to ever-so-slightly above avg Offense went to the crapper and therefore teams defended us with much less energy than they did in the past, and thus those teams had more energy to use on their own offense…..I’ve said this here in longer format before.
I’d love to see D’Antoni break our stifled offense up. We have naturally gifted defenders who have little normal offensive sense, and I think D’Antoni’s system can help them develop their O game, and they’ll keep their D game, and overall voila, we’re a fun team to watch again.
Our team’s offense has in the Hinrich era always had stretches in games where we did nothing, they used to be a 5-7 minute stretch normally in the 1st or 3rd qtrs, and then this year they oddly stretched at times for 1-2 weeks, especially early on.
Get a guy who opens up that offense. Stop playing Skiles ball, and try something new with the talented guys we got, and I think we’ll be alright, and D’Antoni is just the architect for us.
Plus Avery showed that he’s not as good as his rep by catering his lineup to Nellie-ball last yr even after those changes where proven to not work….and I don’t care what happens, Avery should have had the guys fouling D Wade harder on some of those easy drives to the bucket in the playoffs. Avery let Wade destroy his team because he lost control and went into a panic mode.
I agree with everyone else on here though that DOC RIVERS is an awful coach….he’s been blessed with talent and a great assistant….I was shocked he even got a #2 Coach of the Yr vote at this point—given how inept he’s been in the past and given the fact that the improvement came because the talent was so huge. Glad to see that Byron Scott got his much deserved do though.
by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
D'Antoni would be GREAT
Never in my wildest hopes did I think we’d have a shot at such an exciting change of coach this offseason. This is too good to be true. No thank you to Johnson, who sounds like something of a psycho, or Karl, who is just kind of a smarmy weirdo. I don’t want to listen to either of those guys after every game next season.
It would be alot of fun to watch this team get out and run and Noah and TT are a tantalizing frontcourt for D’Antoni’s kind of style. Come to think of it, I think Kirk, BG, Deng, and Thabo would also do well in that style. Noc I don’t know about. Gray not so much. (I’m still kind of in denial that Hughes and Gooden are on the team).
I agree that the Bulls defense would be fine. D’Antoni would inherit a bunch of active, willing defenders. Its not like he actively preaches not to defend.
Go get him Pax—you have a terrific option that seems to have appeared out of nowhere. Make it happen!
Yes we can. Yes we can hire a good coach. Yes we can.
by preverbal on Apr 30, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best fit fot the Bulls is the Triangle
Neither one would use the triangle, so what’s tthe point.
Why does anyone talk about a coach who wouldn’t install the Triangle????????
by hlac on Apr 30, 2008 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is he kidding
I can’t even tell anymore…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
200 plus playoffs win-90 losses
That’s D’Antoni..if the bulls need a cleanup and renovation,they must get D’Antoni. The Bulls team are full of offensive minded players(though potential good defenders if they want),WHY GET A DEFENSIVE COACH?i know that defense wins a championship but you can’t just teach a fish how to walk.that’s the bulls,they’re more suited on doing offense and can also do a good job on defense.
surely D’Antoni had learned his lesson now,that he must also formulate a some kind of defensive play in his gameplans.
im telling you, the bulls are a dynasty in making. they already have the pieces, all they need now is someone who could efficiently make the most out of each player and make them be comfortable but still play with heart.
what the suns lacked with D’Antoni was versatility on offense and tenacious “D”
the bulls are very capable of defending well.
D’Antoni is very capable of bringing the offense out of a player.
i think its a good combination.
by Aiafati on Apr 30, 2008 7:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Thing is that
D’Antoni and Carlisle have two totally different styles of running the ball. I obviously don’t have to list them, but Paxson may not be too interested in D’Antoni because of the fact that he is more offensive-orienated. The Bulls have always been known to stress defense - although I think way too big on defense and well it wouldn’t hurt to step up the offense - and to me D’Antoni doesn’t fit as someone on Pax’s list of candidates.
Finally: The End.
by ChiTownCritic on Apr 30, 2008 7:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Carlisle doesn't exactly meet Reinsdorf's previously stated coach criteria either.
Reinsdorf said during the season that he wanted a coach who stressed both ball and player movement on offense as well as D.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Apr 30, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reinsdorf should stick to writing checks
If he wants to hire the coach, maybe he should do it himself and take the responsibility, instead of putting Paxson on the hotseat if things don’t work out.
by Big D on Apr 30, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
d'antoni is a great coach
for this bulls team. kirk hinrich would benefit greatly from him (like steve nash did; not because theyre similar players, which theyre not, theyre just both white point guards; but because kirks a pg), as would deng and gordon (who’s similar to barbosa but just more talented). tyrus could turn into a shawn marion-type player because he has similar athleticism, can run (but doesnt always choose to), can rebound, and could develop a little bit of an outside shot (not 3-point range) similar to marion’s. i could go on and on with almost every player on the team, but you get the picture. (sorry for all the parentheses, and these thoughts are probably somewhere up there but i didnt hav time to read all the comments and if so, then sorry for the repition)
by kite on May 1, 2008 12:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
David Alridge reports d'antoni out
Forgive me if been said but on TNT’s post game coverage David Alridge reported (via Ernie) that D’antoni will resign as the Suns coach. Agreed Paxson needs to stop with the due dilligence and give that man a check
by The90sBullsRevival on May 1, 2008 12:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Before you sign a check
Lets keep in mind that the d’antoni style of play only works with steve nash, its just the way it is. Its always been a question if d’antoni created that method of play, or rather built that mehtod of play to revolve around steve nash. I mean many teams have tried to emulate it, but they just end up creating a fast break running team, however, the suns were different in that they sort of attacked from all different angles, and i think that only works with steve nash’s incredible court vision and flashy passes.
I suppose d’antoni would be able to, however, create the style of play that ive been waiting for….defense leading to turnover leading to fast break “score before they d up” style of play. I can sort of see d’antoni teaching kirk some special ways to play hard d, run the floor and set up the other players….and moreso i would like to see kirk and tyrus emulate some nash and stoudemire pick and roll plays….but i guess my point is, can d’antoni actually create a style of play with our roster and without steve nash? If we get him, he better have thought up the style and told pax about it in his interview
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on May 1, 2008 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if D'Antoni chafed at
Kerr telling him to coach defense, how will he react to the franchise built around a defense-first image?
Will the words be less offensive coming from Jerry Reinsdorf or Pax?
As for Kirk, I believe he can be much more of a D’Antoni-style point guard, even if he never quite becomes a Steve Nash clone.
But let’s say that D’Antoni can somehow keep his free-flowing offensive principles AND he’ll allow an assistant coach to preach strong defense. The Bulls’ young legs, combined with hopefully better attitudes across the board could make the Bulls perennial contenders for years to come under this kind of a coaching scenario.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on May 1, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
god I wish Reinsdorf never did interviews
Maybe we’re being too hard on D’Antoni’s defense. The Suns were always around average in defensive efficiency and he had Nash and Stoudamire playing heavy minutes, a couple of the worst defenders in the league (who play heavy minutes).
I think the Bulls could at least be a top-10 defense simply by not playing for a coach they openly despise.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 1, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he got the Bulls job,
I imagine D’Antoni’s first order of business would be to go out and get a slick-passing point guard—if not by trade, then in the draft. Augustin comes to mind as the only draftable player like that (barring, of course a lotto winning shot at Rose). Maybe others here see more D’Antoni-style pg’s in this draft class?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 1, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is part of my problem and yet also excitiment with D'Antoni
everyone assumes he only knows how to coach Steve Nash, which seems ridiculous. But he’s never had another head coaching gig, so it’s tough to say conclusively that he can coach without Steve Nash, either.
But I don’t think it makes sense to want him as a coach, yet also think he can only coach if he has a ‘nash’, or ‘nash-type’ (is there one?) point guard. You either trust him to be a coach who can adjust, or you don’t (and shouldn’t want him here).
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 1, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there any way to find out, and then compare...
...what he did in Europe? Wasn’t he an HC there?
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well I'm sure there is
but is it really that relevant?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 1, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not statistically, no.
But scouting, sure. Seems there are a lot of questions that could be answered through interviews, review of tapes, before & since of players. How long was his career?
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure NBA Observer's cousin from the old country, EuroBall Observer,
could help you get some tape of D’Antoni’s European teams.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on May 1, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you think it'd be completely pointless for Paxson to do this?
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't be completely pointless
But given the huge difference in International ball and the NBA, I can’t say it’d be greatly beneficial.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on May 1, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we wouldn't be comparinig the players...
...like Ubzervrrrrrr did. I think. Compare them to themselves. Look at the style of play. Did he run the exact same system but fail miserably because he didn’t adjust? Did he make them get players that fit his system? It’s not something you or I could do, and it would be costly. However, I think interviewing past assistants and players on what he tried to install, asking scouts around that league would be very beneficial.
and maybe I’m just so ignorant to not have a clue. Maybe all players try to play like steve nash and they all run the same basic run and gun system so it would be pointless.
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You misread my point about players
What I wanted to show BAB was that players in the Italian league playing by D’Antoni’s system experienced similar gains in production to what we now see when players play for D’Antoni in Phoenix. D’Antoni has brought in some above average players and flipped them. either through trades or the players pursuing more money, into better assets to benefit the Suns. Tim Thomas, Q Richardson, Joe Johnson, Jim Jackson are several players.
Some other nuggets about D’Antoni are interesting. D’Antoni was coaching Benneton Treviso while the Bulls were scouting Toni Kukoc in the late 80s and early 90s. Krause was enamored with Kukoc’s driving, passing, and scoring.
Kobe Bryant wore #8 because D’Antoni was his favorite player on Benneton Treviso while his father Joe Bryant was playing for the club.
by NBA Observer on May 1, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why isn't it relevant?
Many coaches provided a glimpse of what they can do at the lower ranks. It might be college, the CBA, the Spanish league, the Italian league, the Greek league, the D-League or even in the Puerto Rican league, but the primary factor has always been can the coach take even a marginal league with expectedly marginal players and take them to another level.
A few clips courtesy of 120 seconds with Google.
Nachbar loves D’Antoni
When the Nets (5-6) play the Suns (5-6) in Phoenix on national television tonight, Nachbar will have a chance to embrace one of the men he credits for his N.B.A. career. Mike D’Antoni, now the Suns’ coach, coached the Italian team Benetton Treviso in 2001-2, Nachbar’s final season before the Houston Rockets drafted him in the first round.
Nachbar, 26, averaged 12.9 points and 3.7 rebounds during Euroleague play that season, helping Benetton to the semifinals. D’Antoni said he simply put Nachbar in a position to succeed, playing an up-tempo style.
"His talent was able to come through," D’Antoni said during a recent telephone interview.
D’Antoni’s point guards for the 01-02 Title
But while D’Antoni led Treviso to another league title in 2001-02 with Americans Charlie Bell and Tyus Edney, NBA GMs and presidents — including Jerry and Bryan Colangelo of the Suns — visited the team regularly to follow the progress of prospects Nikoloz Tskitishvili and Bostjan Nachbar.
by NBA Observer on May 1, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really had to get on my side?
Well, I guess I got on your side for suggesting that statistics didn’t rule the universe.
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could just read the Suns fan blogs
They didn’t acquire Nash until after D’Antoni was promoted to the Head Coach. His first PG in the NBA was Stephon Marbury. The Knicks were equally generous to Phoenix as they were to Chicago two seasons laters. The Suns actually traded Marbury(max deal and all) and Penny Hardaway(max deal and all) to the Knicks.
by NBA Observer on May 1, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
Pretty much all we’ve seen of D”Antoni is what he can do with a pg that can break down a defense…and one thing we know about this Bulls team is that there is not a player on the roster who can do that.
I don’t think we need a Steve Nash clone. That’d be asking for a first ballot hall of famer to come in and run the offense.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 1, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you like Nash?
I couldn’t tell.
Nash has two bogus MVP awards, and wasn’t even the best point guard of his era (maybe for a season). If the HoF wasn’t a joke, I’d say he wasn’t good enough to get in.
by hscs on May 1, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do like Nash.
I will also admit to a prejudice in favor of creative point guards in general. It’s my favorite position to watch. In terms of entertainment value, I’d take Magic Johnson over MJ or Kobe or LeBron any day.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 1, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoop-dee-doo
I’d take 3 hours of “Farmer Wants a Wife” over a Lakers game. It doesn’t mean I’d marry any of the prospective country gals.
by hscs on May 1, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...I wouldn't rule anything out.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 1, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kidd was really good from 97-98 to 2006-07
Despite not being able to make baskets. Billups and Paul have had far better seasons than Nash ever did, but I have to spend more than 2 minutes looking at it.
by hscs on May 1, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There have been a number of point guards
really good at breaking down a defense and creating scoring opportunities either for themselves or others.
Sure, Nash is no John Stockton. Stockton led the league in assists nine consecutive years. But just looking at the last decade, it’s pretty much Kidd and Nash—each has led three times. Marbury had a few great years before he imploded. Baron Davis. Steve Francis. I like ‘em all.
You mention Paul. He’s not exactly Nash’s era, but he looks like he could be as dominant in the next era as Stockton was in his.
I don’t feel a need to say Nash is the best ever. I know both you and Matt have pooh-poohed the hall of Fame, but I do believe Nash is a sure HoF’er.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 1, 2008 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the HoF is irrelevant
There isn’t even a whiff of a standard to hold anyone to. I haven’t taken the time to compare any careers, but leading the league in assists isn’t something I’m concerned about. I’m not worried about establishing an ‘era’ either; my criteria is best-at-his-position-while-he-played.
by hscs on May 1, 2008 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What criteria would you recommend?
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on May 1, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, he did have a HC gig
99-00 Nuggets. Hired as an assistant to start the NBA season. Then promoted early in the year to HC. He was fired at the end of the year.
by NBA Observer on May 1, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, he was once
Boylan-esque.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 1, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
D'Antoni si.......Johnson no
The Bulls have the youngest team in the league and would thrive under an uptempo system. Avery Johnson seemed to be out of ideas on how to counter New Orleans. He made no adjustments on either end of the court to give Dallas a chance to win.
The Suns lost because of an unfortunate draw (San Antonio – 4 championships) and Shaq’s inability to make free throws and to stop the pick and rolls from their great penetrating guards, Parker and Ginobelli. Yet, Phoenix came within a couple of plays of winning 3 of those games with a little bit of luck and less Shaq. D’Antoni would be welcomed as a franchise savior by most of the Bulls players and he could become an instant hero with the fans and the media in Chicago. Pay him whatever it takes to get him here. We have nothing to lose but our mediocrity.
by Tyrusmancrush on May 1, 2008 3:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bulls players happy about D'Antoni possibility?`
NBA front-office sources say D’Antoni has a strong interest in the opening in Chicago—which I’m told has a few Bulls players excited already
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=MavsCoach-080501
That may seem like a small thing…but I do think it’s important for the players to like, support, and be excited about the coach they are going to get. There was nothing mentioned like this when Carlisle’s name was brought up.
by NormVanBeer on May 1, 2008 8:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually more excited if there's the whole staff coming over
sure it was sort of a love-fest, but the book ”:07 or less” made the staff seem actually interested and invested in developing young players like Barbosa (though besides him and Diaw it was pretty much a veteran team)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 1, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why I have my opinions.
Phil Weber has been there since 1999. So “his” list includes Marion and Stoudamire as well. And Joe Johnson came over halfway through his rookie year. They have either drafted well (an argument can be made for that) or Phil Weber is awesome.
Players the that have been drafted or “developed” while Weber has been in Phoenix:
Shawn Marion
Joe Johnson
Amare Stoudamire
Leandro Barbosa
Boris Diaw
That’s quite the list.
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes to Weber
coming to Bulls with Mike D.
Joakim Noah for player/coach!
by marionette on May 2, 2008 4:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not only the players that are excited
I’m excited too… I think he’s not so great on defense, but maybe D’Antoni could make of hinrich a little steve nash. No that guy to be a 2 time mvp, but a guy who can run the offense like nash and also score some important points… I just hope Pax won’t let this chance run away… This could be the most important decision he is going to make on his career…
BOYLAN IS GONE, NOW IT'S TIME TO GET RID OF HUGHES
by bull83 on May 1, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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