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Mike D'Antoni and Avery Johnson available?

Tiny by majoyenrac on

[ed. note: this is 'reportedly' going to be a big day in terms of possible coaching changes. Both D'Antoni and Johnson saw their teams bow out of the playoffs last night, and could both be fired today.  Majoyenrac already started a fanpost thread on this, those thoughts are below.]

LET'S GET D'ANTONI

SI.COM is reporting that D'Antoni is leaving the Suns (I haven't had a chance to read that article--I will by half day today) but I heard news on ESPN also indicating that D'Antoni is gone from the Suns.

Here's the yet to be read article .

I know the Raptors job is soon to be open (speculation, but likely true) and that D'Antoni is a Collangelo guy, so they might be the favorites....but I would think for D'Antoni's sake that having a HUGE MARKET CHICAGO (one that lead the league in attendance at least as late as early April--I don't know if by the end fo the yr we still lead but we were probably no lower than #2 which is a surprise given the awful disappointment that was this year.

For a team (Bulls) who have been overly defense oriented, let's get a guy who's a brilliant offensive architect....one who can get the most out of Deng and Gordon and Hinrich....hell even Noc.

He'd also be a good guy to teach offensively challenged bigs like Noah and Tyrus to be effective.....

But the best thing about D'Antoni is that his reputation amongst the players as one of the best coaches to play for.  Suddenly big market Chicago has a big market coach whom other free agents might flock to for a pay cut like we've seen with many other teams.

I think for Pax right now it's D'Antoni or bust, if he indeed is available and doesn't go to the Raptors....what do you think?

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If you had read the article...

you would know he’s not out of Phoenix yet.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Apr 30, 2008 6:54 AM CDT   0 recs

ESPN.com is reporting he's likely out as well

I agree with majo though, D’Antoni is a class above the Carlisles and Thibodeaus. He invented (read as: brought over from Italy) a new style of NBA offense, made stars out of wash ups (Boris Diaw, Joe Johnson), and made a superstar out of an average player (Steve Nash). I’d love to see what he could do with Hinrich, Thabo, and Tyrus.

Throw the kitchen sink at ‘em, Pax! We might come out of this offseason okay after all. And what is Phoenix thinking…

by YaoPau on Apr 30, 2008 7:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What are you talking about.

Joe Johnson hadn’t even had a full season before joining Phoenix and has has been just as good, if not better, since joining the Hawks. Diaw had played two total seasons before his Phoenix stay, had one good year before signing a huge contract and has quickly fallen back to so-so. Moreover, Nash was hardly an average player in Dallas, scoring about the same amount of points on excellent averages (though he did improve when he got to Phoenix) and still averaged between 7.5-9 assists with a similar assist to turnover ratio.

I am not saying that D’Antoni isn’t a good coach, but the players helped him as much as much as he helped the players.

by McCabe on Apr 30, 2008 7:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You also forget

That D’Antoni has had a lot of players say in the all star games etc that they’d love to play for him. I believe he’s won players polls for best coach to play for. He’s getting some vets to come on the cheap too, and could bring all that to a young team that is in the midst of building (vs a veteran team that now after Marion trade is too old).

Kerr F’d up that franchise. They should have won it all last year but the league jumped in and suspended their best player for the critical game 5. Learning from that mistake, when Garnett did a much more questionable thing in the Hawks-Celtics game, Stern decided to let him play….

D’Antoni is amongst the best coaches today. It’s damn tough to beat that Spurs squad and I don’t think Nash-Stoudemire-and old Shaq have anything on Parker-Ginobli-Duncan.

by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 7:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Except Gilbert Arenas

He hates D’Antoni.

You have to play defense to defeat the Spurs. The Suns play almost no defense at all.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 8:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

is D'Antoni a bad defensive coach

or are his players in Phoenix terrible at defense? I know I have heard him talk about imploring his team to play better d, but they never seem to get it.
Obviously, if he leaves Phoenix, Pax would be stupid not to pursue him, but keep in mind that a stout defensive team has a better shot at winning the title than a run and gun team that plays next to no defense. Its already a crazy off-season, and it’s not even the off-season.

Sidenote-If D’Antoni comes to the Bulls, isn’t almost necessary for Pax to bring in Pippen as an Asst Coach? I could see D’Antoni and Pippen gelling really well, and if their bball genious minds mind-meld effectively, that would mean good things for Chicago bball. Sorry everyone for always mentioning that Pippen should be an asst coach on this team, its just something I feel needs to happen for Thabo, Ty, and Deng to flourish. Plus, I would want someone on the bench with some NBA championship experience.

I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE

by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 12:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's hard to knock D'Antoni for defense

all by himself. I really don’t think he stresses defense in terms of solid rotations, helping your teammates, or when to double and when to not double. I think his defensive focus is “rebound the misses and give it to Nash”. It’s very likely a product of what system D’Antoni is pushing knowing what puzzle pieces he has to work with. Removing their best man defender in Shawn Marion exposed a bunch of sores that were already there.

At first I scoffed at the concept of Chicago hiring D’Antoni. However, this was also at a time when I was bashing Ben Gordon’s defense and blaming him for the defensive regression this season. Crapping on Gordon for the team defensive regression was wrong and pigeon holing D’Antoni as a coach based solely on what he has tried to do with what players he has had in Phoenix was also wrong.

The Phoenix bench should have come from the draft picks they acquired in the Joe Johnson trade. Some of the picks Phoenix traded became Rajon Rondo and David Lee. Want to guess what Phoenix would be like with those two guys ON THEIR BENCH? Scary. Factor in the trade of Kurt Thomas to Seattle to acquire a trade exception and you have to wonder who made that move? Was it Sarver trying to save money, D’Antoni not wanting a NBA proven vet big that can defend Duncan, or Kerr playing both Sarver and D’Antoni to make a move just to make a move?

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 12:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

One more note

D’Antoni is a lead assistant on Team USA as requested by Coach K and fully supported by Jerry Colangelo. The other assistants are Nate McMillan and Jim Boeheim. I doubt D’Antoni was assigned to coach defense, that was probably McMillan, but in the 2006 FIBA World Cup, Team USA couldn’t defend the pick and roll. Dwight Howard looked awful trying to defend it. The team basically sagged off the big setting the screen as if they could use speed to recover, chase the penetrating PG, and make a spectacular block. It never came. Greece killed Team USA with PnR, PnR, PnR over and over again.

We lost the Greece game and settled for the bronze. Greece ended up falling to Spain that was minus Pau Gasol.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right on Conor6!

Steve Nash was never a good defender, and wasn’t ever this good of an offensive player. He was good, all star worthy good, but never was great offensively. Then he’s teamed with D’Antoni’s system and he’s a 2 time MVP that really could have won at least 3 of them as his numbers surged last season, but the thinking was well he’s not as good as Dirk overall (whcih is probably right) and that I don’t even know if Jordan, Magic or Bird ever won 3 straight MVP’s…...

We have natural defenders in Hinrich, Noah, and Tyrus…..all have far more natural d abilities than Nash, Stoudemire, and modern Shaq.

We also have a lights-out D’Antoni styled player (Gordon), a guy who had been thought as a solid floor general if not a natural passer (Hinrich), a guy in Deng who can be far more effective offensively given his skill set in a fast break styled system like D’Antoni’s and Deng is a guy who has natural D abilities but doesn’t always play with them and everyone sans Matt knows that Nocioni can give you a bit of everything but is often made to look worse than he is on D because he tries to cover the switch, and his teammates this last yr were awful on the switch (it’s what Kirk was complaining about all yr in his “need to get better defensively” comments).

D’Antoni would be fabulous for us. We have talent, we’ve also got a possible DIAW styled player (with the same confidence issues) in Sefalosha, and we’ve got the most freakish athlete this side of Lebron and Josh Smith in Tyrus Thomas, who’s sure to shine with some more coaching (he’s only had a year and a month of mostly Skiles’ put downs and then the “no coaching is coaching” style that was Boylan.

Add in another nice big in Gooden, and the talented headcase that is Hughes, and who knows….and D’Antoni’s got enough respect that he can and will bench Hughes if Hughes doesn’t play the team game…..although who knows perhaps Pax can find someone to take Hughes…

by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 12:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

D'Antoni is part of the Suns nucleus

that really liked Luol Deng and Thabo Sefolosha. I forget the details as to why the Suns traded Deng to us in 2004, but they were shocked when we coaxed the Sixers into selecting Thabo at #13 in 2006 and agreeing in principle to draft Rodney Carney at #16 which we then swapped and sent a 2007 2nd round pick and cash back to the Sixers.

Phoenix was picking at #21 and thought Thabo wasn’t that high on other teams’ radar.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

again, you talk like you're in the inner circle

but yes, there were reports about the Suns wanting Thabo. In that same draft, Danny Ainge said he would’ve taken Rajon Rondo #5 overall if he still had that pick…there’s a tendency to leak out these reports to make their selections look better.

The Suns didn’t trade Deng. They traded the pick before the draft for a future 1st rounder. It was (as if I’m in the inner circle…) to save salary cap space (picks have a cap hold) in order to sign a FA (which turned out to be Nash)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I have not infiltrated the inner circle

but I also seem to remember comments during the last draft that the Suns were in love with Noah, too.

by kig on Apr 30, 2008 1:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe THEY didn't think so...

...but I thought they might. So I suppose others would as well. I was really high on Thomas and convinced the Bulls were going to take him. He was doing a chat on ESPN (a few others were, too, I think), and I tried like hell to ask him what he thought of probably going to the Bulls and possibly being taken with Thabo, and if he knew anything about him.

I think being so incredibly “right” about that draft was bad news because I’m way too sure of myself now.

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 1:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you probably heard of Thabo the same way I did

draftexpress had him going to the Bulls pretty early in mock-season.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe.

I don’t recall knowing what DraftExpress was until this past Fall (seriously, I’m Internet-browsing retarded), but I might have stumbled upon it, and then forgot.

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 1:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

bird won three mvp's in a row

i love the no coaching is coaching…sums boylan up perfectly

I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE

by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 1:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd love D'Antoni

a whole lot more if Pippen was hired as an assistant. Call it the Doc Rivers effect. Rivers can’t coach defense. He finally admitted it and Ainge went out and paid Thibideau to do it for the Celtics. Yes, yes, acquiring Garnett is a huge, but Thibideau is getting defense out of Leon Powe, Eddie House and Paul Pierce. Pierce isn’t a bench player, but when you bring in Powe and House and get them to play defense it’s easy to see why they developed a +12 point differential in the regular season.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 12:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yea, thats what i was thinking

doc rivers knows next to nothing about being a head coach, except losing, then enter garnett and tom thibideau, and they have the best d in the league. i just think pippen and d’antoni would mesh really well, and winning would be the ultimate priority if someone like pippen was involved, and thats all i care about.
anyone who watched the 4th quarter of game 4 of the boston- atlanta series knows what i am talking about with doc. worst coach in the league not named jim boylan

I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE

by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

since when can Pippen coach defense?

as a whole scheme, let alone the coaching-by-osmosis approach to the wing players.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ummm, yes, i guess you are right

i dont have any actual proof that Pippen would be a top tier defensive coach…But i would like to think of myself as a baseketball enthusiast, and I just have a feeling that Pippen would be able to teach defense well. Phil said Pipped was the smartest bball mind he ever coached, as well as the best all-around player.
Besides, those were the best moments with the bulls. they would be playing amazing defense which would turn into a turnover, which led to a fast break, which led to the bulls killing people, which led to 6 championships.
Like i said, i have no proof that it will translate into coaching success for pip, but call me crazy for thinking it would work in a D’Antoni system. fast break em to death by creating turnovers at the top of the key and the wings and run run run.

I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE

by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 1:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just because Pip was a great defender

Doesn’t mean he will be a great tactician. From everything we know of Scottie, he can’t get a head coaching gig until he learns how to talk to people properly. He speaks his mind way too much, and he often comes off as an ass, even though he’s far from it. Maybe he’s “old school”, but why will the roster listen to him when he basically shot everyone down only several months ago?

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 1:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

umm did you already forget about skiles?

yes it didnt work out in chicago, but skiles wasn’t unemployed for that long, and i consider him one of the better coaches in the NBA because he DOES speak his mind, and doesnt give a shit if that gets into trouble. and besides, do you really think pippen would fuck up his first gig by berating the team constantly, i doubt it. I thinks it safe to say that is pip were hired, he would do his best not be a “jerk”

was what pippen said about the current roster untrue? not in my opinion. and lets be honest, they are millionaires who are paid all that cash to win, and when you dont win, and look terrible, you are going to have things said about you that may seem a little harsh. its called reality.

Old school is what this team needs

I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE

by CONOR6 on Apr 30, 2008 1:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok, maybe not Men yet

But the current roster is at least a group of “big boys” that can handle criticism from a former NBA player playing exhibition games in Finland for the money.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Below: What I am talking about

It’s true that Joe Johnson hadn’t played a full season before joining Phoenix, but D’Antoni wasn’t the coach of Phoenix until a year and a half later. And sure, you could look at Joe Johnson’s stats nowadays and say his progression was a no-brainer, but until D’Antoni came along he was a 41% shooter averaging just over 8ppg career.

Diaw went from a 43% shooter averaging 4.7ppg in 22mpg career to 52% shooting and a 13.3 – 6.9 – 6.2 line literally overnight with D’Antoni. It’s true his numbers have dropped, but that probably has more to do with Amare playing again than any drop in Boris’ ability.

And then there’s Nash, who went from two all-star games in his first eight seasons to two MVPs in his next two. I think you’re pushing it a bit to say there wasn’t much improvement… Dallas let him go for nothing! His FG%, 3PT%, and assists are all way up, and that’s all due to D’Antoni’s system.

Bottom line, there’s hundreds of NBA players with untapped potential, and D’Antoni has consistently been able to get the most out of his players when other coaches haven’t. I don’t see your argument that Johnson, Diaw, and Nash would be this good with or without D’Antoni when there are so many lottery picks wasting away on NBA benches (see: Tyrus Thomas, Cedric Simmons).

by YaoPau on Apr 30, 2008 8:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nash was already great

so all those other guys could be getting the most out of their careers because of Nash. Skiles had a good line that there was no system, Nash was the system.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 9:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, I don't think D'Antoni reinvented anything

he just gave Nash carte blanche to do whatever he wanted. Mostly it’s improvising off of a pick and roll. The bulls do some of that with decidedly poorer results, but that probably has a lot to do with their pf not being Amare Stoudemire more than anything.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 9:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not that D'Antoni doesn't deserve credit

for letting Nash run amok. Most coaches wouldn’t allow it.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 9:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if you make a guy your franchise player

you have to give him some kind of freedom.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

which is why

Avery shouldn’t be very high on Pax’s list.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 1:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

although

the Bulls don’t have a franchise player, and likely more in need a controlling guy like Avery.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not Amare

Clearly he’s a big part of it, but the system works because of Nash’s incredible abilities to see the floor and know precisely what type of pass is necessary and the ability to make that pass with either hand. Plus he’s a deadly shooter from almost anywhere on the floor above or below the three point line.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

how good would Nash look

if he were playing with Ben Wallace.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 30, 2008 1:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Mmm, not so good

lol

That deal was so happening until the day Mick called Rob.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If Nash was already great, regardless of system...

Then why did the Mavs refuse to pay him more than $9 mil a year? That’s less than the Bulls are paying Kirk Hinrich.

On that Mavs he was a 16ppg, 8apg guy with a pinpoint jumpshot and zero defensive ability. That puts him in Andre Miller / Mike Bibby territory. In D’Antoni’s system, he became a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

by YaoPau on Apr 30, 2008 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

durability and age concerns.

His final season with the Mavs he lead one of the best offenses in NBA history.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Um, Mark Cuban is an idiot?

He took the money that would have been used for Steve Nash and paid Ericka Dampier.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 10:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Because of Avery

Avery knew Nash didn’t want to play any defense at all so why try and make him play defense? The Mavs still made a contract offer, but I think Avery knew all along Nash wasn’t going to come back and play for a coach that would bust his chops to play some D.

D’Antoni told Nash to forget about defense and Nash was thrilled.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Really

Iheard it had more to do with Nash’s age—31? or so and the worry that Cuban would be paying for a guy who already had large back issues. Phx training staff has worked wonders….

by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 12:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not ruling out age

Age is almost always a factor especially when you’re contractual difference are the number of years on a contract.

In the 04-05 season when Avery finally took over the Mavs finished 9th in DRTG. The year before, a full season with Nash and Nellie as their coach with Avery as an assistant, the Mavs were 26th of 29 teams in DRTG.

I really think Avery would have essentially clashed with Nash all the time if he was trying to instill a defensive presence in the team and all Nash could do was let people by him and maybe get a hand or two on a pass each game.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Do you have a backing source for this?

Or is another, “I think, therefore I’m right.” sort of things?

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 1:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Which part are you questioning?

The whole post was my opinion.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you need to phrase it that way.

(or at least try and do a better job of it.)

It almost always reads as the way Tyger described.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 1:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll try to make it more clear what is opinion

My usual gambit is that if my posts or thoughts are wrong the ruling from my peers will be swift to correct any inaccuracies or falsehoods.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right. Simply put, "I think..."

...before saying Nash was ousted because of Avery. I don’t follow enough basketball to know when you’re just spouting B.S. Every once in awhile you do give a nugget of factual knowledge. I’d like to know the difference w/o having to consult google.

For instance, you say, “Tyson Chandler was traded for P.J. Brown because he didn’t get along with Skiles and they got a good trading chip in an expiring salary.”

I have no idea whether that’s actually true or just your opinion w/o looking it up. Anyway… I just figure you post everything like it’s factually true. I must have been wrong.

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on Apr 30, 2008 1:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

OK. I understand

I must admit, it will be difficult. The reason for that is that I read so many things, listen to so many things, and watch so many things that sometimes it is difficult to remember the exact quotes, where I ‘ubserved’ it, and how to parlay that information into a complete thought. One tool I used to employ for tracking political stories was a blogspot account connected to my mobile phone where I could just punch in the details of the TV or Radio show, the guests, the topic, the time, etc and push all those notes as there own blog postings.

What I can do now is merely state something like “My reading of the reports is…”.

I’m picking up things too as a way of better understanding other readers’ POVs. Matt’s posts have me reading Yahoo Sports more when I really didn’t read it at all prior to discovering BAB.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 2:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's a yin and yang thing

Nash never would have been this effective if D’Antoni wasn’t the coach, but D’Antoni would never have been hired in the first place if Colangelo didn’t go out and sign Nash. I think D’Antoni can use his system on any team as long as there is an above-average PG. The better the PG, the more freedom he would allow him to run the offense. And, yes they did bring back the concept of running amok, which aside from the Kings and Mavericks of the early 2000s, no team really did or considered doing.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 1:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

a note

D’Antoni was hired mid season in 03-04 as the head coach. In 2002 he was hired as a Suns assistant. So his hire predated the acquisition of Nash.

I think D’Antoni can use his system on any team as long as there is an above-average PG.

He won with the same system in Italy coaching Benetton Treviso. Wikipedia says his teams had a bunch of former NBA players.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Here you go guys

http://www.blogmaverick.com/2004/07/03/steve-nash-part-1/

read this about two years ago, but i hope it answers everyones questions about the nash trade.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Apr 30, 2008 2:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, his playmaker in Treviso was

almost 7 feet tall. I think Bulls fans know him, he’s originally from Croatia and his first name is Toni.

Or maybe D’Antoni started coaching in Treviso post Kukoc ? Don’t remember.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on May 2, 2008 3:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not out yet

but expected to be out very shortly, they are awaiting an offer from another team to make the out be less negative from a Suns PR perspective, but all reports are that he wants out and that mgmt has turned on him….

That’s enough to speculate he’s out. I mean si.com and ESPN are saying the same thing on it too if you need more details behind that speculation. There’s a better chance that he’s out than he’s coming back….especially after the Shaq trade seemed to be anything but a D’Antoni move (I know there are some reports saying he was a Shaq guy too, but there are twice as many that say that move was purely a Kerr move….Pax has to make an offer and for the fans sake needs to make that knowledge public (have a leak) to add pressure to the Suns to make a move.

by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 7:27 AM CDT   0 recs

D'Antoni wanted Shaq

D’Antoni, Kerr, Riley, Sarver, and Arison have tossed the story back and forth like a hot potato all trying to dodge responsibility. Kerr says D’Antoni came to him with the idea of adding Shaq. Sarver says Mickey Arison called him about trading Shaq to Phoenix. D’Antoni has said he wanted Shaq.

Frankly, I wouldn’t want to stick around Phoenix for another season if I were D’Antoni. Shaq’s an immense liability. Popovich just replayed for the entire league what Phil Jackson showed the league as the Bulls coach. Hack-a-Shaq works because he sucks at making free throws. Do it when you’re in the lead and it’s even more effective.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 8:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i think it was 'sharing' responsibility

as much as dodging it. Had to put a brave face forward if you were D’Antoni, whether you thought it was a good move or not.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 8:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How does this make sense if you're Kerr

Let’s see, my coach who’s been known as a great NBA coach who brought an entirely new system into the modern NBA on the offensive end, suddenly wants an old Shaq on the team who never even in his peak fit the main style that the coach had coached, and who made exhorbitant amts of money and is maybe 1/3rd the player he used to be. THe Shaq experiment failed, so being Kerr, he’s going to fire D’Antoni and yet sit out and take the blame alone for the next 2 years after the already old Shaq and much overpaid Shaq brings the Suns down to mediocrity and causes the Suns to pass on the chance to get Amare the championship or two that a player with his skills deserves….

All the while D’Antoni is out and in time folks assume he’s out because he disagreed witht eh Shaq signing (which all signs point would be true) even if D’Antoni had to say he was ok with the signing because his boss wanted it….

by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 9:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I meant that

As how does it make sense if I’m Kerr to say well D’Antoni wanted Shaq and it didn’t work and so I’m going to take the fall for strangling my cap with Shaq the next 2 years because of a guy that my old coach who I already was not on the same page with wanted a guy whom everyone in the league knew was well behind his glory days-Shaq wasn’t even in the all star game from the popularity vote-something still crazy for a guy with the Shaq charisma and press…..now even the everyday Joe fan knows Shaq ain’t what he was….

by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 9:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Essentially

if D’Antoni’s gone like all the rumors are said to be true it’s because Kerr got Shaq because it’s something Kerr wanted to do, and he thinks D’Antoni didn’t know how to use the big-ancient-capkiller.

by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 9:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Kerr's role in Phoenix is rather interesting

He put together the ownership group led by Sarver to buy the Suns. Kerr even owns a small share of the club. I think Sarver trusts Kerr to do what’s best for the team.

The acquisition of Shaq was muted on the cap issue. They sent 17 million in Marion and 5 million in Cedric Banks back to Miami. Mickey Arison probably loved the deal. He knew Shaq was a liability.

The Suns have traded key players and draft picks just to avoid the luxury tax. They’re still about 4 mil over the tax rate for the 07-08 season.

Kerr likely hires a new coach that will run a similar offense, but will stress defense beyond just letting the other team score so you can get another offensive possession.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Kerr's an evil genius

and we don’t notice because he’s so boyishly handsome.

All the flak for the Shaq trade is instead falling on D’Antoni.

Plus, if Kerr ever does get canned, he can just walk back to a TNT job.

No wonder he’s so BOLD.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure on the dollars it's muted

But how can you say the 37 and 38 (or even 36, 35, 34) yr old Shaq’s were better talent wise these days and athletically than the 31 yr old Marion is and was?

Add to that that Marion could and likely would have opted out this yr if he was still in Phx giving the Suns room to find a replacement and there’s $16M of offseason money right there fore them.

Instead they have a lumbering old VERY MUCH overpaid SHAQ who’s eating 30% of their cap for the next 2 years and who is completely unmovable….

They’d have been better off keeping Marion than doing what they did, even a disgruntled Marion as he can always be moved.

by majoyenrac on Apr 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Keeping Marion, let him opt out
Add to that that Marion could and likely would have opted out this yr if he was still in Phx giving the Suns room to find a replacement and there’s $16M of offseason money right there fore them.

Not necessarily. Since Marion was a Suns draft pick it gives the Suns some flexibility to break the cap to pay Marion that they wouldn’t have if they were trying to pay a player like Steve Nash. Teams can exceed the cap to resign their own players without entering luxury tax territory.

The salary cap is what 56 mil this year and the luxury tax is 67 mil.

This is why the Suns front office moves to trade every single draft pick made little sense. The draft is the best way to improve your bench.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Suns traded draft picks to avoid having to pay them to stay under the luxury tax threshold.

They probably would not have maxed out Marion for that very reason. His next raise could take him close to $20 mil/year.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Apr 30, 2008 1:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Weren't they over the luxury tax threshold anyway?

Hoopshype numbers show them with salaries in excess of 71 million for 07-08. Subtract Oneal’s 20 mil and put Marion’s 16.5 and Banks’ rough 4 mil back in the picture and they’re actually saved money a paltry amount of money in the deal.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They may have saved money this season

They wouldn’t have necessarily saved it next year if they’d retained Marion. Marion’s made it quite clear that he wants to be more than the third best player on a team and actually have plays run for him. To get there, he was going to have to opt out and leave the Suns. Trading him for Shaq was terrible execution, but the idea of trying to get something in return for Marion this season made sense.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Apr 30, 2008 1:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

I didn’t pile on the “Bash the Suns” train after the deal was made because I knew the Suns were either going to face this devil at the trade deadline or in the off season where Marion would have the leverage.

I’m curious what kind of contract a player with unique talents of Marion will yield in an open market or from the Heat. In 16 games with the Heat he rebounded more misses, but his one additional shot per game sunk his FG% 7 percentage points.

by NBA Observer on Apr 30, 2008 1:43 PM CDT to parent up