A New Direction for the 2008-09 Bulls

by MarketMaker on Apr 3, 2008 12:52 AM CDT

I wanted to address Matt's post about trading Deng and Gordon, but I thought my idea took up a little too much space to be a response. With that in mind, here's what I'm thinking:

I know a lot of Bulls fans are really biased towards BG and Deng, but there are a couple of young restricted free agents that I would much rather the Bulls went after.

Josh Smith, Monta Ellis and Andre Igoudala are all going to be restricted free agents this summer. Let's make a play for one of those guys.

Let's look to make a deal moving as many of Nocioni, Gooden and Hughes as we can. Perhaps Hinrich, too. We've got a young group intact. Thabo, TT and Noah will still be here. Say Hinrich stays, too. If we could get any one of the above mentioned free agents I'd be ready to roll with that 5 as my starters.

Any way we can get some of our junk out of town is a plus. If that can't happen, then play them, but limit the hell out of their minutes. I'm talking off the bench no more than 10-12 minutes a piece. We have talked so much about depth. I think it's overrated. Teams with a good starting group let them get most of the meaningful minutes. You need two quality reserves, and a couple of space fillers for when your starters are tired or in foul trouble.

So imagine a starting lineup with Hinrich, Thabo, TT, Noah and one of Ellis, AI and Josh Smith. Coming off the bench to spell them is maybe a PG you drafted this year, whoever you picked up in the Noc trade, Gooden and Hughes if you got stuck with them and then our end of the bench, just-in-case scrubs.

We would be young, athletic, fast, defensive-minded and perfectly built for a fast-paced run-and-gun style team. Bring in a like-minded coach who wants to play up tempo with a swarming defense. We would also be in good financial shape moving forward.

In summary, we had some good times with Gordon and Deng, but this year was unacceptable. They both have flaws. They both stepped back when we needed them to step forward. Let's not throw money at a couple soft guys that showed their true colors in their contract years.

Just out of curiosity, I included a poll to see what you guys think of the Bulls' potential options this summer.

Poll

Which restricted free agent do you most want to see in a Bulls uniform next season?

Andre Igoudala

45 votes

Monta Ellis

17 votes

Josh Smith

17 votes

Luol Deng

36 votes

Ben Gordon

5 votes

120 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

the Bulls aren't getting other teams' RFAs

I seriously doubt Iggy, Smith, and Ellis are going anywhere. Don't the Bulls need serious upgrades, not more above-averageness?

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 3, 2008 8:09 AM CDT 0 recs

Plus,

How would an all-6'3-and-under backcourt of Hinrich-Ellis avoid being torched routinely by taller guards? If you're going to say that the 6'3 Hinrich will guard the likes of T-Mac/Kobe/Durant, we've seen that movie before, and we know how it ends--with Hinrich too tired to lead the team and the Bulls fighting an uphill battle, essentially playing way above themselves just to win 40+ games per season. It can be done, but why would you specifically opt for that?

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 3, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up 0 recs

I figured his athleticism would make him

less of a defensive liability than Gordon. More to the point, I thought the fact that he gets to the rim, goes to the line more, shoots way better, and is more productive in all the peripheral categories. Even if he were only marginally better defensively, his offense would make him more valuable in my mind.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Apr 3, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

exactly

Ellis works in GS, because Baron is big enough to guard the other teams' shooting guards. Plus didn't Golden State trade Richardson so that they would have money to resign Ellis?

by shoryuken on Apr 3, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

yup

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

Baron Davis is big enough to guard other teams'

shooting guards? I don't think so. Did you mean that Don Nelson and Golden State don't believe in defense and so it doesn't matter who is "guarding" whom? That I could buy into.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Apr 3, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

fair enough

Baron Davis is big enough not to be posted up by the opposing team's 2-guard every trip down the floor.

by shoryuken on Apr 3, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yes, and Hinrich was obviously abused on constant

basis. That's why he developed a league wide reputation for good D and even made second team all defense last season.

by snley on Apr 3, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

Did you read any of the other comments?

Not a single person said Hinrich was a bad at defense. But we've all seen the toll defending 2 guards takes on Hinrich over the course of a season. He gets tired and is unable to carry the offensive load at the same time.

My main point was that GS is an ideal situation for Ellis. He gets to play to his strengths on offense at the SG position (shooting, using his athleticism to get to the rim). He also gets to minimizes his weaknesses (height, weight) by being allowed to defend the PG position. If Ellis had to guard other 2 guards, he would be consistently posted up by bigger guards. Throw in the fact that GS cleared out cap space by trading Jason Richardson, it becomes highly unlikely that Ellis will leave GS.

by shoryuken on Apr 3, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

I apologize, I misinterpreted.

by snley on Apr 3, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

the BYC issues for Deng and Gordon

also exist for other team's RFAs coming off of their rookie contracts.

(they don't, for example, apply to Gilbert Arenas, who if he opts out and gets a max deal, isn't getting a 20% raise)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 8:58 AM CDT 0 recs

Is the BYC issue for all sign and trades

or only if it involves an RFA?

by snley on Apr 3, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up 0 recs

it's all 'signs', if

* The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it's the minimum salary).
* The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player's rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up 0 recs

Are these guys not at the same risk

as Deng and Gordon of being offered significantly better contracts and their original team losing them? It seemed to me that though the original team could match the contract, they might pass on it, or in the case of J. Smith, be caught having to choose between Smith and Childress.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Apr 3, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

this definitely could have gone in the other diary

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2008 9:08 AM CDT 0 recs

Is that worth saying?

Do you know exactly what should and should not be a diary? Or are you just an insufferable prick? I would bet the majority of the people on this site would vote the latter. You contribute nothing but smug comments and post just read your own writing. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Apr 3, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

why don't you post another diary

with another poll in it? And you've got it all wrong, I post to get witty retorts like yours. Besides, it wouldn't be fair to let PaxJax have all the fun.

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2008 11:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

fair enough,

I can smile and laugh off this dialogue. I guess I misread your intentions. Prehaps your "dry" wit is just 'tongue in cheek' humor. If that is the case, I apologize for thinking you were being an antangonist. As played out as it might be, your same comments would be better received with a well-placed lol, or :) or whatever. Sarcasm is more easily recognized vocally than it is in writing. If I was out of line, then I apologize.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Apr 4, 2008 4:41 AM CDT up 0 recs

Don't sweat it

I just like to see who puts their ad hominem bullet in the chamber first, the "you don't like my argument because you're stupid" people. They usually make for the least interesting people to with whom to discuss things. ;-)

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 4, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up 0 recs

Iggy

I have been wanting to see him play for the bulls for a long time. Maybe we could trade Hinrich (who is garbage), Noc, and Hughes/our 2nd pick/ Du/ __. Then use the first pick to get a PG. Igoudala, Gordon, and Sefo would be sweet, especially if we get a much needed pg (Augustine?) in the draft.

Igoudala will be an elite player in the NBA and is a hard worker. Lute Olsen says he is the best player he ever coached... nuff said really. His size, talent and athleticism are remarkable.

We need to resign Ben Gordon long term. I am not sold on Deng who should have been traded last year when his value was higher. But Deng also suffers from the bulls' lack of a pg (cuz Hinrich is garbage).

Noah, TT, and Gooden are good. Gray can be a decent backup.

by Zac23 on Apr 4, 2008 4:31 AM CDT 0 recs

wait

how do you feel about Hinrich, Zac?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 4, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up 0 recs

Can you believe that the Bulls

took Gordon and Deng ahead of Iguodala? Gordon was a little more understandable at the time, since he had a great showing in the tournament. But to know that the Bulls could have had Iggy instead of Deng just hurts.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 7, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

Paxson

Yea i remember that draft and was hoping the bulls would draft Iggy over Deng. This seems to be emblematic of paxsons draft woes. he is good when it comes to draft prospects who have proven themselves in college (Ben Gordon and Noah) when he goofs is when he goes after someone who showed a lot of potential in college and may turn into a great pro (Deng and TT). not that they might not eventually be great, but i would rather have iggy than deng or brandon roy instead of tt. The problem may also be poor coaching and/or development by the bulls staff

by Zac23 on Apr 8, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah, and then there's

the "gym rat-ness" factor. When Paxson drafted Gordon and Deng in follow-up to drafting Hinrich, he gave all of these interviews where he was saying how great it is to have guys who love being in the gym, and how mentally strong they were going to be in the league (care to amend that last part, Pax?).

But at the time, Pax was just desperate to make the playoffs, and so you can understand why he wanted gym rats over high-ceiling guys.

Tyrus Thomas was just a complete departure, though. Having "proven" himself as a good drafter in the conservative style (gym rats), he felt like he could gamble a bit on a high ceiling guy in Thomas.

So I guess the 07-08 season destroyed (or at least dented) his reputation as both a conservative drafter of gym rats and as a guy who can evaluate the talent of high ceiling guys.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 8, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'd be interested to know

how many people think Iggy is demonstrably better than Deng or BG. Both of the bulls have had much better careers so far, but really shat the bed this year. Iggy on the other hand, seems to have continued to progress and may benefit by his good timing. These guys have all stated they think they deserve the big contract. But does anyone here think they've demonstrated that signing any one of them to that big contract will be a wise investment?

My own opinion is that none of these guys has shown that you can build a franchise around them. Iggy seems to have the momentum right now, but his team has been good for a grand total of 30-40 games during his career. Is that enough to get you the big deal?

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 4, 2008 10:52 AM CDT 0 recs

it likely will be enough for the Sixers

I don't think Iguodala is much better than either Deng or Gordon, but you can make the case that he'd be a better fit with either than keeping both, because Iguodala's a finisher inside, where (as we know) Deng and Gordon aren't.

I don't think it matters, as the Sixers are going to keep him. 'face of the franchise' and all that. Worked for Hinrich!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 4, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up 0 recs

Not to mention,

Iguodala has 3-point range, as he demonstrated to our collective pain when the Bulls have played the Sixers this season.

He's also more "athletic". Better yet, he's more of a "pure athlete".

Still, there could be some redundance with Rodney Carney there. Maybe we could take him off the Sixers' hands.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 7, 2008 8:53 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think Iggy is the best of the 3

but I don't think any of them are all that special. The poll seems to be saying that people prefer Iggy by a little over Deng and a ton over Gordon.

The money these guys make will throw a wrench in the debate, too. I gotta think the pullback by Deng and BG is gonna hurt them in the pockets, while Iggy would seem to be in line for the best payday of the 3.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Apr 4, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

I agree, but by how much

and will BG and Deng together make more than Iggy? Probably, and it will be interesting to see how it works out.

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 4, 2008 7:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

I really

don't see how those guys change much for the Bulls.

by Kemp on Apr 4, 2008 1:39 PM CDT 0 recs

Monta Ellis

is an inferior Ben Gordon. If BG were on Golden State, he'd be averaging 27 pts. He's got a better 3 point shot, he's just as fast, and he's stronger. Putting Monta on the Bulls would be a waste.

by arjoseph on Apr 6, 2008 4:25 PM CDT 0 recs

here's the problem with your stance:

you are completely ignoring offensive efficiency. ellis goes to the line more, shoots a higher percentage, and takes less shots per game. so could bg score more in golden state? yes, if he took more shots than he does now, but wait, he already takes more shots than ellis(and at a lower %). anybody can score more if they take more shots(in theory). but then somebody else can't shoot it, and if you're shooting in the low 40s(like bg), you're not helping your team.

Where does he work?

by MarketMaker on Apr 7, 2008 10:19 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think arjoseph is saying

that Gordon would shoot a higher efficiency in a more explosive offense. I love Ellis, but I wonder how efficient he'd be dribbling out of double teams for 20 seconds while his four teammates stand around watching.

by YaoPau on Apr 9, 2008 1:29 AM CDT up 0 recs