A coaching name not yet (to my knowledge) suggested...
by fundamentallysound
on Apr 28, 2008 8:51 PM CDT
The way I see it, the key to our future success is developing our young big men (specifically, TT and Noah). This brings me to a former enemy, Patrick Ewing. Ewing has recently been reported to be "hurt" that Donnie Walsh has not contacted him for an interview for the Knicks' head coaching job. From Florida Today via ESPN Rumors page:
"I'd love to be interviewed for any job available. It's disappointing to not be interviewed by the Knicks, but it is what it is," Ewing said. "It is my goal to be a head coach, and my day will come. And when it does, I'll make sure I'm ready."
Ewing has been a big man coach for Washington for (2003-04), Houston (2004-2006), and the Magic (2007-now). So he's worked with Yao and Dwight. He's got real coaching experience, unlike Pax interviewee Mark Jackson, who has only been an analyst. He's one of the best big men to ever play the game and I think he could really help our young guys. I don't see what bringing him in for an interview could hurt. I'll present this with the caveat that I'm a Thibodeau supporter and hope he gets the job, but Ewing would be an interesting other option. I hope that if we can't land Thibodeau, Pax can take advantage of the Knicks' Mark Jackson myopia and lure Ewing to Chi-town to develop Tyrus and Joakim. I think it would be an inspired hire, but it would be a roll of the dice.
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How about...
we send them both to Hakeem’s big man camp?
by McCabe on Apr 28, 2008 9:21 PM CDT 0 recs
i think that
work every day with one of the former greats and a guy who has learned from some great basketball minds (JVG, Riley, Paul Thompson, etc.) and has coaching experience in the league would be more valuable than a summer camp. I know that comment was probably somewhat sarcastic, but I think Tyrus’s summer with David Thorpe at IMG should serve him very well. Thorpe knows his stuff, he’s one of my favorite ESPN.com analysts.
by fundamentallysound on
Apr 28, 2008 10:07 PM CDT
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haha
snark aside, JVG is a very good coach. He is a little man, but his stature as a coach is unquestioned.
by fundamentallysound on
Apr 28, 2008 10:58 PM CDT
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that's my point
just because Ewing’s tall doesn’t mean he’d be a great big-man coach, let alone a great head coach on a team that needs big-men development.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Apr 28, 2008 11:18 PM CDT
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I'd say Ewing's work with Dwight
has been a success (he’s been his most dominant ever this year and Ewing was hired in 2007) and I’d say that Yao improved after working with Ewing. I mean it could just be that those guys were always going to be dominant players, but I think Ewing probably had something to do with it. All I’m saying is if we’re going to hire a former Knick I’d rather see it be someone who knows something about playing in the post and has coaching experience. Like I said, Thibodeau (a non-player) is my number one choice, but if we’re going the former player route, why not give Ewing a look?
by fundamentallysound on
Apr 28, 2008 11:42 PM CDT
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Dwight's also been the oldest he's ever been
and the most highly trained he’s ever been. and the most experienced he’s ever been. and played with the best teammates he’s ever had.
Ewing was already mentioned and pooh-poohed. The fact that the knicks won’t even give him a curteousy interview ought to be a big enough clue for you.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 8:54 AM CDT
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I spelled courtesy incorrectly
just in case your keeping score at home.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 9:53 AM CDT
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And "you're" ;-P
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on
Apr 29, 2008 10:07 AM CDT
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son of a....
I hate when I do that :-)
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 10:22 AM CDT
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Don't worry.
We’ll just hold it against you forever. And never listen to anything you say because of that one time you flubbed a spelling. Gotta love the internets.
by cranscape on
Apr 29, 2008 6:11 PM CDT
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Why not Kareem?
While I don’t think that either is ready for or will get a head coaching gig, one could make the case that Bynum has improved more under Kareem than Howard has under Ewing (I’m not saying Bynum is better just that he has improved more.) So, as long as your making the case for a big man coach, why not Kareem?
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
by jpchi on Apr 29, 2008 12:03 AM CDT 0 recs
Kareem has not been slighted by the Lakers recently
and seems pretty happy with his current role mentoring Bynum. I don’t see him leaving the Laker fraternity or really seeking the spotlight of a HC gig. But that’s admittedly purely speculation. Ewing, on the other hand, has expressed a desire to be a head coach, and has spent the last five years getting experience to do so.
by fundamentallysound on
Apr 29, 2008 12:08 AM CDT
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Kareem has repeatedly indicated he wants to be a head coach someday.
He believes he’s been black listed by the NBA because of things he said and did during his playing career. Ewing’s been reported to be more interested in watching cheerleaders practice than help the team practice.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Apr 29, 2008 6:47 AM CDT
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That was a great read.
I wonder if Pax’s lack of a plan has him thinking that far outside the box? Somehow, I doubt it.
Eclipses are cool.
by preverbal on
Apr 29, 2008 10:12 AM CDT
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There is a prejudice against Kareem.
With a few notable exceptions, there is a general prejudice in the coaching fraternity at all levels in all sports in favor of unexceptional athletes who had to try their asses off just to hang on the fringe.
Because of their lack of physical gifts they had to develop their smarts. If they played an opponent even up they’d lose, so they had to create their edge through better positional play, tireless movement, perfect shot selection, using angles on defense…in short, through intense preparation. All the things a supremely gifted athlete does instinctively and effortlessly, the less gifted must work and work and work to even approximate.
This, I believe, is the prejudice working against Kareem. For those of us who remember him, even if we are lifelong Chicago Bulls fans, it would be almost impossible to take Jordan over Kareem with the first pick of an all-time team. Kareem was unstoppable, his sky hook was the best shot in the history of the game—and he made it look so easy.
In a sense it is even harder for a guy like Kareem to demonstrate that he’s coaching material—he has to first overcome the idea that he didn’t need anything other than his absolute physical superiority to dominate the game.
Aligning himself with Phil Jackson, the acknowledged master of the inner game, is a great career move for Kareem. If he receives a public stamp of approval from Jackson, a lot of GM’s will have to start to regarding him as legit.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
by alec on
Apr 29, 2008 11:01 AM CDT
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or Kareem is an outspoken guy unwilling to tow the company line,
and he’s a big jerkwad who doesn’t get along with anyone.
by hscs on
Apr 29, 2008 11:29 AM CDT
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Agreed--
There may have been actual prejudice against him in the past, but now the dislike of him stems from his historic inability to maintain a pleasant working relationship with NBA officials and media. Not everyone has to be as gregarious as Shaq or as corporate as Jordan. But Kareem was known for being standoffish.
He’s mellowed in recent years, but now he’s become, well, kind of lame in the personality department, judging from recent interviews. To the point where it’s difficult to see him as a motivator of his troops.
Others might not have his decorated career, but might have an ability to communicate and motivate better.
As we’ve seen from people like Magic or Rick Barry, being a great player does not make you head coach material.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on
Apr 29, 2008 1:40 PM CDT
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I love this phrase and hold it to be true
Those who Can, Do
Those who Cant, Teach
Ewing COULD play real well, that leads me to believe that he wont be a good coach. I mean the guy was athletic, Tall, had a very strong build…thats what made him such a great player. He might be able to teach noah or thomas a thing or two about how to play in the post, but what advice could he give a ben gordon, who is the exact opposite of a player as him?
This is also my thought considering pippen. Sure he could teach thabo a few things, but what exactly is he gonna tell bg and kirk, oh right, he already told those “midgets” something. What kind of plays could he think of, what kind of players would he be looking for?
Skiles was an average guard who one day got 30 assists and was able to play with guys like shaq, average players tend to observe the game differently and have to rely more on knowing plays and using smarts to get the job done (especially guards) since they cant just rise up and score at will, or out quick opponents. Guys who are great players usually had the ability to improvise plays, guys like scottie, jordan, ewing, they didnt need plays drawn for them all the time. They just needed one good window of opportunity, and they could take over a game. Heck, defensively, these guys were known for getting some calls to go there way.
This is at least my logic of it all. Other then Jerry Sloan, i dont know of many Great players who became great coaches, and despite the saying, i know its not concrete that such is true, however, in terms of ewing or pippen, i think the saying holds true.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on Apr 29, 2008 12:09 AM CDT 0 recs
Scottie hasn't really shown any signs that he could be a HC
but Ewing has helped to develop two of the best Centers in the league. I don’t think he’d be some sort of cure-all and I would also wonder about his ability to help our guards and wings, but that’s why you need assistant coaches. I don’t know if Ewing would be a great or even a good head coach, my point was that if we’re really being open-minded about this search and we’re calling a guy like Mark Jackson who has no coaching experience at all, why wouldn’t we at least interview Ewing and see what he has to offer.
by fundamentallysound on
Apr 29, 2008 12:14 AM CDT
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You are right we should look at all options
However, Ewing might just be a good big mans coach because he was a steller big man for a long time and learned the ropes. Being head coach i think has more to do with motivation of the team and designing plays that will benefit the whole team. I think its a special talent, and requires alot of b-ball iq. I always think of head coaches to be like chess players. They come into a game with a base strategy, and from there they watch the pieces move on the court, and react to what the opposition does. Furthermore coaches should know how to keep the roster in line, meaning give them room to grow but make sure everyone is in a situation to help the team. Its why i think Popovich is such a great coach. He knows what kind of players he needs, he knows how to motivate them, and well just game 2 of the suns spurs game this year and you can see him out think his opposition. And having a guy like manu come off the bench even though he would be a starter anywhere else?
This is why college coaches dont work out often either, i mean, these guys are going against some steller minds who have steller players. College games often too quickly become disorganized 10 seconds into the shotclock, but the kids play hard cuz thier futures are on the line. Nba players are already making millions, and motivating them and getting them to commit to a system is hard. Creating plays that can benefit your team is hard, out thinking guys like popovich is extremely hard (and going against tim duncan, tony parker and manu isnt a cakewalk either).
Thats why a coach with experience would be best, since he would have had a track record and perhaps could have taken time to learn some more tricks or fix his mistakes (carlisle, brown, etc). I am intrested in this Thibedeau guy (i am sure i spelled his name wrong) just because his name has come up in alot of different coaching jobs. He seems to be surrounded by an aura that he is a Smart Defensive specialtist coach, and i wonder what he could do with a team that once was at the top of the defensive list.
by the way i just got a text, larry brown signed with Charlotte as thier coach…..another one bites the dust…the clock is ticking paxson
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
Apr 29, 2008 12:29 AM CDT
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good riddance to Larry Brown...
he would not have been a good fit with this team and would have left us high and dry in a couple years anyway. screw that guy.
by fundamentallysound on
Apr 29, 2008 12:34 AM CDT
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Good riddance to Brown
MJ can have him for whatever huge contract he will sign. He’ll be gone in 3 years, this team needs a coach who actually enjoys success and likes staying in one city.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Apr 29, 2008 12:34 AM CDT
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haha
i guess we had the same thoughts on LB.
by fundamentallysound on
Apr 29, 2008 12:35 AM CDT
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But you are right about the clock ticking
Toronto, Denver, Dallas, and maybe Phoenix could all be making changes. If Paxson has a candidate in mind, then don’t waste time and just make a freaking announcement. He’s had months to think about this since Boylan had turned the team from worse to laughingstock, but apparently it’s still wide-open? Ugh, just get this over with so we can actually try and fix the damn roster for once.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Apr 29, 2008 12:47 AM CDT
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heh
Read below, but it seems you have a knack for thinking what someone else is thinking, and typing it up at the same moment….
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
Apr 29, 2008 12:50 AM CDT
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It's not God-given
I’ve worked hard every day of my life to mimic other people’s words.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Apr 29, 2008 12:56 AM CDT
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HAH!
become legendary commercial reference?
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
Apr 29, 2008 1:02 AM CDT
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Maybe you're just clairvoyant :)
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Apr 29, 2008 1:08 AM CDT
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Dude
That hackneyed phrase is nothing more than a way to insult teachers. Besides, that’s not what you’re saying. You’re saying “Those who can do, can’t teach.”
Go to any top university and you find stars in their respective fields serving as lecturers, teaching the subjects at which they’ve excelled.
Eclipses are cool.
by preverbal on
Apr 29, 2008 10:16 AM CDT
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you'd be surprised then
at how many great researchers hate teaching. Most of the researchers I know hate teaching.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 10:23 AM CDT
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That's a different saying
“Some of those who can do don’t want to teach but they have to in order to do what they want to do.”
Eclipses are cool.
by preverbal on
Apr 29, 2008 10:27 AM CDT
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just about all don't want to teach
was the point. I’ve found very few at the upper levels who like the teaching.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 10:38 AM CDT
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Well
that may be true among researchers, who are only a subset of teachers. However, many top professionals in various industries teach at universities to share their expertise and experience and they don’t do it because they have to.
Partners at top law firms teach law school courses, successful bankers teach finance courses, etc.
Which was the point—“many of those who can do can also teach.” Which is why you can’t automatically say, as piccolomair suggested, that a great player will be a lousy coach because he was good due solely to non-transferable ability. Capiche?
Yes we can. Yes we can hire a good coach. Yes we can.
by preverbal on
Apr 29, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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actually that's not at all what that phrase tries to convey
regardless of what picco was trying to say, the phrase implies that teachers are typically those who aren’t at the top of their field. Not the converse, which I think would be that those at the top of their field don’t teach. Or is that the inverse? My point was that those at the top of their typically don’t want to be teachers, they want to be do’ers, at least in my experience. And the bigger point is that those who are the best are the only ones with the option to do both. And I agree that just because you are good at something doesn’t mean you can’t be a good teacher. But I also think that those who are the best generally don’t have the patience to deal with the rest. I could go on, but hopefully I’ve made this long-winded and dense enough that only the most fool-hardy and determined will dare to read it and actually reply, because this thread has already gotten several more replies than it deserved. Let me just throw in one more sentence in case you are actually reading so that you can be certain to be upset with yourself for wasting this much time. Hopefully that takes care of that. The End.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 3:24 PM CDT
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So was it showcasing or not?
"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.
by tyger1147 on
Apr 29, 2008 3:42 PM CDT
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You are dense like black hole.
Yes we can. Yes we can hire a good coach. Yes we can.
by preverbal on
Apr 29, 2008 7:37 PM CDT
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Ehh
He sort of stuck up for me ( i think) and for that im grateful, but if it helps any, i do see your point and perhaps i did use the phrase wrong. I truly believed my words and what my interpretation of that phrase was, and i will admit i didnt look at my argument objectively enough. So i apologize, if that makes my point that i think great players can be good coaches moot, then it is and im sorry.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
Apr 29, 2008 9:38 PM CDT
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Researchers aren't teachers
They are required to do it by universities in order to get that grant money to conduct whatever research they are doing. I get what you’re saying, but those guys didn’t sign up for the love of teaching, they did it because it’s part of their job.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Apr 29, 2008 10:27 AM CDT
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actually if you get enough grant money
they don’t make you teach at all.
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 10:38 AM CDT
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True
But not every college is able to attract that kind of money. Maybe at UIC or UofC, but certainly not at Loyola.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Apr 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT
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Um, that was odd
I get it that Ewing has done a great job with Howard. (Yao has also worked with Hakeem, so I’m not going to give him all the credit there for developing him). I still see him as a specialist who has carved a nice niche in the league, much like Kareem has worked with Bynum. I’m still so confused as to what this team really needs. The Nuggets just got swept, which means we can expect George Karl to either quit or get fired in the near future, and Paxson will take a long look at him as well.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Apr 29, 2008 12:32 AM CDT
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true enough about Hakeem
as for George Karl, I don’t think he’d be the best fit for this team. He is a great motivational coach, but tactically he is lacking. He might be good at returning the Bulls to middling, because he’d likely get them playing their asses off again, but he consistently gets out-coached in the X’s and O’s tactical part of the game. For instance, guarding Kobe Bryant early in the series with Nene? Really? I really hope we don’t go with another retread former head coach.
by fundamentallysound on
Apr 29, 2008 12:39 AM CDT
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Man
Is it because the bulls really need alot of things (coaches, players, assistants, superstars, MIRACLES) or is that this year is just wierd for the league. I mean, the bulls go from top of the east, to bottom of the league (although miami can tell you thats nothing uncommon) the trade deadline had the most all star big name trades (the whole season for that matter), the last quarter of the season for the west was more like a playoff atmosphere, and now all of a sudden there might be a bunch of great teams who will all simultaneously change thier looks allowing either weaker teams to jump back up in terms of ranking, and organizations to completely change face.
Theres like so many options, so many coaches who might get fired or quit, and so many players who arent fitting with thier teams that might be moved, its scary. I mean….what if paxson plays it safe again and gets little to nothing done.
Then theres a part of me that says paxson a freakin genius. He got hughes to get rid of wallace, and because hughes can look good on the bulls, long enough to have teams want him, a nd that expensive contract of his gets us a better player. Or package hughes with a gordon or a hinrich, or a thabo or a deng, or a thomas, and we might be able to get some true studs via trade.
I am hoping paxson is the latter…
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
Apr 29, 2008 12:50 AM CDT
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The other thing about Karl
is that his teams often implode due to personality conflicts.
by KJ7 on
Apr 29, 2008 9:42 AM CDT
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that's ok
this team has no personality
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Apr 29, 2008 9:45 AM CDT
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ha ha
actually this team did have a personality, that of a teenager tuning out authority figures…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 9:52 AM CDT
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Ewing has a gig
Coaching the Magic Summer League team. I hope for his sake that he has the talents of James Augustine at his disposal.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 29, 2008 2:01 PM CDT 0 recs
Or Fran Vazquez
if they can ever get him to leave Spain.
by NBA Observer on
Apr 29, 2008 2:06 PM CDT
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Augustine
hasn’t he run out of summer league eligibilty by now?
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 3:25 PM CDT
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I can't tell
if you’re being sarcastic or not, but are there even eligibility rules? Didn’t Artest play in a couple summer league games a couple years back?
by NormVanBeer on
Apr 29, 2008 3:33 PM CDT
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right I'm not sure if there is a 'rule'
but it’s not unheard of to be in the summer league before your 3rd season. Not that it looks good, either. I want Tyrus to skip summer league :)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Apr 29, 2008 3:37 PM CDT
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The only limits I know of
are if a team will put you on their summer league roster. The only real requirements are “does a team want you” and “are you available to play”. Even Randy Livingston still plays summer league ball at age 33.
by NBA Observer on
Apr 29, 2008 4:06 PM CDT
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Okay, guys
so what you’re saying is you don’t like this idea? The feedback and articles linked to showing Ewing’s propensity to tune out and watch cheerleaders were helpful, I didn’t really put a lot of background research into this. I think the point that was made about the Knicks not giving him a courtesy interview is something I should have considered. Also, Tom Thibodeau got undressed last night, he’s the Celtics defensive specialist and he couldn’t convince Doc to switch Ray Allen off of Joe Johnson. Really? James Posey or Tony Allen doesn’t make more sense on JJ when he’s scoring at will? I don’t know that this completely makes me off the hire Thibodeau bandwagon, but it certainly gives me pause.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 29, 2008 8:06 PM CDT 0 recs
if the C's lose the series maybe
but give the guy a game or two to make adjustments. there could be other mitigating factors…
2008 or bust.
by bullshooter on
Apr 29, 2008 8:25 PM CDT
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I wish we could talk to the possible coaches
However i think if i even talked to boylan about basketball he might blow my mind. These guys, no matter how much they suck, are still in the pros, and thats not easy. To sort of explain, boylan among me and my friends, GENIUS!! Boylan among the rest of the nba’s coaches, IMBECILE!!!! So if were to interview them, id probably be blown out of the water by some no name with no real credentials, and a guy who knew what he was talking about would probably make me wet myself (or not)....i think as fans we sometimes lose sense of that. Especially when some of these coaches play 4 FREAKIN GUARDS at the same time.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.
by piccolomair on
Apr 29, 2008 9:43 PM CDT
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heh
So maybe this Knicks coaching search will get a little more interesting than listening to Patrick Ewing whine about not getting called for an interview. With all due respect, Patrick, you were never a leader as a player. Why would you be considered a leader as a coach?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 30, 2008 10:23 AM CDT 0 recs
But he was a good player!
Therefore, he will be a good coach. I mean, that’s how it always works, right?
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 1, 2008 1:18 AM CDT
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Lets keep it that way
I believe in letting a sleeping puppy dog rest. (or a large sleeping puppy)
by exult463 on Apr 30, 2008 12:22 PM CDT 0 recs
