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BlogABull roster evaluation: take one

[If this is your first visit to the site since the upgrade, visit this post first.  Though suggestions for the tech team are encouraged, don't be whiny about the change -ed.]

As it's the start of the offseason (for the Bulls, anyway), I felt the need to post my starting-point-quick-and-dirty opinion on how I view each guy on the roster. This can probably be gleaned from what's been written here in various threads, but here it is in one space. Don't expect anything that in-depth or convincing, just my initial thoughts before the summer gives us the types of details where more informed decisions can be made:

Hinrich: He's the one I most worry that this season wasn't a fluke, and he's just not that good. If he played like last season (his best season), he's a slightly above league average PG. So while one way to look at it is that the team should only look for someone better...I can also see the case of that if you just put any replacement out there you won't exactly be losing much, especially if that replacement also had a friendlier contract.

Gordon: Work out the contract extension. If he's asking too much, instead of increasing the money offer him an early opt-out after 3 years (or just a 3-year contract). A sign/trade will be tough, and the qualifying offer doesn't help anyone.

Hughes: Try to move. Don't even bother with him otherwise. He's not going to change as a player, and if you play him a lot of minutes your team will be worse off for it. I'd consider acquiring someone with an equally bad contract without the pretense of entitlement minutes. (A real coach would help in this case too)

Sefolosha: I'd see if he has any value and have him the primary 'sweetner' in a deal, although probably doesn't have much value outside of the BaB community's crush wall, and Mike McGraw's screensaver. He has some skills from the backcourt that the team lacks, but they can be found fairly cheaply in the free-agent market and thus Thabo shouldn't be seen as untouchable. Out of the team's younger players, he's the one I'm least attached to.

Duhon: So long.

Brown: Ditto.

Curry: Don't care. Although I'll surely scoff if he's released due to 'character' issues.

Deng: I think his bad season was mainly due to injuries. However, that earns him the label of 'injury-prone'. But not enough of a worry to not re-sign him, you'll be paying for his age-23 to age-28/29 seasons. Even if he never makes a 'next step', I don't see how that winds up being some awful mistake.

Nocioni: Try and move for a shorter-term deal. The contract was a mistake for a tax-averse team, his minutes could be given to more promising players, and it'll help eliminate small-ball. At the very least, don't deem Deng expendable because you have Nocioni to take his place, ugh.

Nichols: Don't care.

Simmons: Expiring contract...so just don't short-sightedly buy him out.

Gooden: A Thomas-Noah-Gooden 3-man frontcourt rotation can do some damage, as Gooden's attributes (strength, finishing ability, post play) are those that the younger two could use as a complement. However, Gooden's fat expiring deal is also the team's best trade piece, especially in a Gordon or Deng sign/trade. So if he has to be used (instead of Noc) in a mega-deal, so be it.

Thomas: if he's going to be traded, it better be for somebody good. Like a Gasol-level good.

Noah: ditto. I'm not objected to trading either guy, but it'd have to be for a top-tier player, not in some kind of 'shuffling the deck' lateral move.

Gray: I take it back, I'm less attached to Gray than Thabo, although so unattached that I put Gray more in the Curry-Nichols-Brown category than the Thomas-Noah-Sefolosha one. He's signed through next year and he's as fine of an inactive list 3rd center type player as any, I guess.

And as an overall plan, I say first priority is to look for a real upgrade at any position, using anyone. That's the hardest to accomplish, however. (actually, first priority is winning the lottery, but that's not something they can really work on)

If it can't be done and the desire is there to just getting a 'new vibe', Hinrich would be my vote as the 'core' guy to move. And for the long-term, look to move bad contracts Hughes and Nocioni, with the pick, Sefolosha, or the roster filler as throw-ins but not Thomas or Noah.

Although overall,  I wouldn't recommend doing something just to do something. I think the 'vibe' change that Pax was blabbering about can be done with a real coaching staff. And especially after thinking through potential scenarios, it looks like any real shakeup (the kind that would, ya know, actually help) will be tough to do after a season that destroyed nearly everyone's trade value.

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I guess, but

the only thing i dont really agree on would be how much you value TT.. he hasnt brought much this year and just dissolved his stats and ability from last year. I thought they released curry (?), and hughes is not going anywhere (at least not sensibly). i think a gordon/deng deal would be really< valuable and unless you can get someone to actually replace what both of those are worth, id consider keeping at least one of them. hinrich, we can get better [perhaps 0 Arenas 0 ] and i believe hes overpaid.

--CHI TOWN CRITIC

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 20, 2008 10:50 PM CDT   0 recs

Curry hasn't been released

he had thumb surgery and was shut down for the year shortly after the PeeOn incident. He has limited salary protection for next year, I believe it’s around $250k to waive him by the end of training camp, after which he’d get his full minimum salary ($750k…sham’s site is down so I can’t get the exact number)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 20, 2008 10:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

sorry...

sham?

Finally: The End.

by ChiTownCritic on May 5, 2008 10:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think that is a fair assessment.

With our low trade value in general we have to move what in better situations we wouldn’t move in order to get a few key pieces shipped out. I reeeeally wish they’d find a way to get rid of Hugues. First in line out the door I hope. He eats up minutes and is terribly inefficient for the amount of ball time he seems to require. Inheriting him into a new coach and system doesn’t see fair to them. Unless this new coach actually has balls enough to bench him. To avoid all of that I’d rather just get rid of him. Get someone who is being payed big bucks but also not demanding 35 minutes a game. Even a back up center. As long as he is really going to be played as a back up.

by cranscape on Apr 20, 2008 11:15 PM CDT   0 recs

This situation is horrible!

At least when teams are terrible there is no real debate over who they should get rid of/where they should try to improve. Here, everybody is average and relatively close to their ceiling (with exception of TT, Noah and maybe Thabo), so it makes it difficult to decide which average guy to get rid of outside of the bad contracts. Man, I hate that we’re overpay for role players.

"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."

by jpchi on Apr 20, 2008 11:16 PM CDT   1 recs

With a new coaching staff

I don’t think Hughes gets any entitlement minutes.

And I think the biggest need is for somebody who create their own shot or get to the FT line at the 2 or the 3. Not being able to get to the line killed this team.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 20, 2008 11:26 PM CDT   0 recs

even if he doesn't get the minutes

there’s still the issue of him whining about it. He was already dropping some hints of unhappiness a week into his tenure.

Not that it really matters if he does whine…as long as he doesn’t have the same ‘influence’ as Wallace.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 20, 2008 11:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually, that was my fear as well--

here’s a guy who from day one said and did all the wrong things. If you think about it, not even Wallace did that.

First he talks about how he expects to start, then he talks about how he plays for enjoyment and not winning. Playing like crap, he’s benched, and immediately makes his displeasure known.

I mean, what choices does the organization have? If he ends up continuing his crappy play and whining, it’s possible that the team with the already-fragile (if not destroyed) image among players now may be in a position to give Hughes the Tim Thomas treatment.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 20, 2008 11:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and I agree they need someone who can get to the line

although I think Gordon can create his own shot…it’s just usually a jump shot.

But say they replace Deng with FTA machine Corey Magette? I’m not really happy about that switch in terms of value. (not to mention it’s just hard to move Deng for value at all). If it’s swapping Gordon for Gilbert Arenas…well sure. I think again it’s a problem when defining ‘different’ and ‘better’. A 2 or 3 who can create shots and get to the line better than Gordon or Deng isn’t that easy to find.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 20, 2008 11:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hughes will be a problem even if he doesn't get enititlement minutes, but guys

making 13 million seem to find the court no matter who is coaching. At least Hughes is injury prone.

Getting to the line wasn’t a major reason for the team stinking up the joint. It’d be nice, but there’s a reason it’s the fourth factor. A Corey Maggette wouldn’t have fundamentally made a difference. It’s well behind guys who give a crap on defense, guys who can make a layup, and guys whose favorite shot isn’t a midrange jumper.

formerly sbulls

by Scotter on Apr 20, 2008 11:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well I'd say that avoiding the 'midrange jumper'

goes in-hand with getting to the line more.

But yes finding bigs that finish is a higher priority. I think the ‘giving a crap on defense’ will come back naturally.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 20, 2008 11:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

There's plenty of guys who get to the line,

who would rather be taking off balance 19 footers. Larry Hughes being the poster child, but I can think of others.

formerly sbulls

by Scotter on Apr 20, 2008 11:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Going forward

It’s the biggest need. I agree that giving a crap was the biggest need last year. Although we should be glad because now Pax has an excuse to move one or two of Deng/BG/Hinrch. They could all have locked themselves up with long term deals and been mediocre for a lot longer…

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 20, 2008 11:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

maybe an excuse but not an opportunity

and when it’s put that way, isn’t Hinrich the clear choice to move? His ‘mediocre’ is worse than the others.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 20, 2008 11:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

depends on what you expect and value most

if it its scoring, then no. I don’t think he’ll shoot that low a percentage again on a team playing the right way. But if it’s his ability to defend bigger guards, then probably since it looked like he was tired of doing it. And his ast% actually went up and should go up a lot more next year with improved play from TT/JoNo/Gooden.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 20, 2008 11:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm starting to lean the other way re: defense

if he can’t defend big guards, then that’s a knock on his value. It makes it easier to accept his faults on offense if he’s taking the defensive pressure off of Gordon.

I don’t recall him doing well against the small fast guards anyway.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 20, 2008 11:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ok but if you dump him

ostensibly to replace him with BG and another guy to take the bigger guard, doesn’t the defense get worse and the TO’s increase? Unless the other big guard is Magic Johnson of course…

But if you are saying keep BG in his role as 6th man and get a new starting backcourt, then yeah, maybe. Maybe Thabo and Calderon, I could go for that.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 21, 2008 12:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Doesn't it depend on whether

Hinrich’s defense is deteriorating or this year was just an aberration?

I mean, I agree that good defense is about giving a crap, and that overall the team simply didn’t. But for Hinrich on an individual level, it wasn’t for lack of effort (most nights, at least)—I thought it was more a matter of him fouling more, or doing the same things as he did last year, but getting called for it more.

So the question is whether all these years of defending bigger guards is catching up to him or whether he just needs a fresh start next season to return to being one of the better defensive guards.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 21, 2008 12:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The problem with the PG position is a lack of depth

There aren’t many players that are worse than Hinrich that I’d actually want at PG. Which is strange because they’re a ton more PG sized guys wandering around the earth than any other position. There should be more quality depth at PG than any other position.

formerly sbulls

by Scotter on Apr 21, 2008 12:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's a really interesting take. I wonder if

most of the talented PG’s out there who are 6’3 and under are weeded out before reaching the pro level by being told they’re too short.

On the other hand, if you are 6’3 and under, just think about how much quicker you have to be to make up the same amount of ground as someone 6 or 12 inches taller. It’s not like all of these 6’3 guys all over the place have that kind of quickness…

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 21, 2008 12:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, just looking over the

PG PER numbers, it jumps out just how bad Hinrich’s production was this season, and how the guys around that same level I’d deem a lot worse.

The one that clearly jumps out (in production and availability) is T.J. Ford, but he does have that dreaded ‘snappy neck’ condition.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 21, 2008 9:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

All Hail Small-Ball!!!

Saw Phoenix use it yesterday. Don’t know how good it was as the GameFlow was down. Althoug, my guess is…

Nash-Barbosa-Bell > Duhon-Hinrich-Gordon

For all those height people, notice how the Phoenix 3-guard isn’t much bigger, than the Bulls’.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 20, 2008 11:40 PM CDT   0 recs

Depends. Or... sort of.

Nash & Barbosa listed at 6-3, Bell at 6-5. So yes, bigger at two positions (Hinrich’s listed at 6-3, yeah?) by listed heights. That’s why I said not “much”.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 20, 2008 11:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, pretty close!

Except for, you know, skill.

"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."

by jpchi on Apr 20, 2008 11:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Small ball is ok,

as long as you have the personnel for it. If this was Hardaway-Richmond-Mullins with Don Nelson as coach (or Nash-Barbosa-Bell/D’Antoni) small ball keeps you interesting and competitive. It hasn’t won any championships, though (but we’re talking about just being relevant / relatively competitive at this point).

Anyway, with the Bulls, especially after Skiles lost control, the Bulls stopped being the scrappy team that could, and small ball became just another crappy lineup thrown out there.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 20, 2008 11:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How about the two championships the Pistons won

running Thomas/Dumars/Johnson on the floor on a regular basis?

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Apr 21, 2008 8:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They still had

James Edwards for traditional back-to-the-basket scoring down low. They also had a handful of decent bigs in addition to Edwards: Salley, Rodman, Mahorn and (though known for his perimeter play) Laimbeer.

You could argue that with Dantley being their post scorer they may have played a small ball lineup a little more…

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 21, 2008 9:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

James Edwards?????

Yes, he was the driving force behind the Pistons championships.

by Cannoli on Apr 21, 2008 9:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, he's no lock for the Hall,

and no one’s saying he is.

But the point was simply that you can’t really call the Pistons a small-ball team when they’re shuffling that number of bigs in and out of their lineup. I don’t think any of them was an All-Star at the time, but they did play key roles in typical “big man” ways—if you drove the lane, then you’d pay; if you turned your head on defense their bigs would be finishing alley-oops over you; key rebounds/blocks (Rodman/Salley) and boxouts (Rodman/Mahorn).

Maybe it’s Boylan’s now-infamous 4-guards plus Noc lineup, but it seemed that when the Bulls played small-ball this season it was a sure sign that opposing bigs were going to have their way on both ends of the floor.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 21, 2008 10:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree completely

I used to get nauseous every time we went with four guards.

by Cannoli on Apr 21, 2008 3:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Big ups to the Sixers for beating the Pistons.

Yes, I’m already missing Ali G, and it’s only been like two years.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 20, 2008 11:41 PM CDT   0 recs

not to get militant (yet)

but fanshots could be the new home for such OT comments, if you so desired.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 20, 2008 11:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh dear god.

So no more threads going off topic? I don’t know if I’ll be able to handle that.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 20, 2008 11:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

am I the only one

who begs for comments just so they can see it auto-update?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 20, 2008 11:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure I like it

because as I am typing, I see somebody jump in and say pretty close to what I was going to say. Should I still post it then or find something else to do?

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 20, 2008 11:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's a problem for the ages.

I like the pop-up comments

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 20, 2008 11:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oh.. you must know my answer on THAT

also, you could recommend the comment you agree with. It’s like a thumbs-up (which is always cool)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 20, 2008 11:51 PM CDT to parent up   1 recs

Did that work?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 20, 2008 11:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The X and C thing is pretty cool

I’ll give you that, although only incrementally better than F3 [new. What I’d like to see in the next version is more of an invitation to chat. The first comment could be a topic and then there’d be settings to let others join or watch and maybe the transcript would get published like a thread. Then you wouldn’t have to wait around for people to reply.

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 21, 2008 12:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I am loving this new format...

This is as close to a real-time chat as you can get, while still maintaining a lot of the advantages of blog comment posting, namely, time to actually formulate your thought…

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 21, 2008 12:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good thinking.

People can flame each other in real time then. And instead of posting in paragraphs or at least semi-complete sentences it will read like an instant message transcript and make no sense afterwards (or during, from my experience). Chatting might be fun, but in my experience it gets pretty shallow and wouldn’t replace well thought out replies. Then again, maybe people don’t always want that and would welcome the real time of chat. (shrug)

by cranscape on Apr 21, 2008 12:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

OT: are you a big BG fan?

(Battlestar Galactica)

2008 or bust.

by bullshooter on Apr 21, 2008 8:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes.

(pushes up her nerd glasses)

by cranscape on Apr 21, 2008 9:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't want to see Hinrich moved.

Only because it’s a selfish reason. He’s from my hometown and drafted by my favorite team…

With your powers combined, I am captain planet.

by CARXRiedmann on Apr 20, 2008 11:54 PM CDT   0 recs

But the refs hate him.

Have you ever noticed this… ? It’s like everyone else can play aggressive defense except for him.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 20, 2008 11:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That was getting

pretty old this season. I was even rolling my eyes at a lot of calls against Hinrich. It seemed to throw his defensive game off more than other years, especially the few few months. You could see the same move go uncalled all game and then when Hinrich did it the whistle would blow. Hinrich didn’t do a lot to help his case, but it isn’t like a lot of other players do either. I can hardly watch a Spurs game for all of the complaining about calls they do. Anyway, it was as if the refs handbook this season, instead of saying something like “focus on getting rid of the rash of moving screens we noticed last year” or whatnot to say “Hinrich isn’t allowed to breath on anyone. If he does he gets a foul.” Hinrich really should have learned to adapt, but with how long he has been in the league it seems like a strange position to be in.

by cranscape on Apr 21, 2008 12:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't want

to see him moved either. Keep him Pax!!

by sue369 on Apr 21, 2008 7:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree about moving Kirk, but who will take him,

and what will they give us for him? I think we are stuck with Kirk until he proves he isn’t grossly overpaid, but in the meantime let’s look for another point guard.

I don’t think we should sign Ben Gordon unless he reduces his demand quite a bit. Pure scorers are usually overpaid.

by Tim S. on Apr 21, 2008 12:04 AM CDT   0 recs

How good is this team?

I’m afraid that my emotional attachment to some of these players makes it very difficult for me to evaluate how good this roster can be anymore.

Here’s how I’m trying to look at this problem: Assuming 1) the team doesn’t add any new players, 2) natural improvement/return to historical trajectory and 3) Pax gets a good coach who will fairly dole out minutes, how far could this team go next season? (proposed rotation with ages in parentheses)

PG: Hinrich (27) / Hughes (29)
SG: Gordon (25) / Sefo (24)
SF: Deng (23) / Nocioni (28) / Sefo
PF: Thomas (22) / Noah (23)
C: Gooden (27) / Noah / Gray (23)
Throw in one more semi-useful piece assuming the Bulls trade away their pick this year (as was suggested in the last few Bulls Beat)
H/T: Dwyer who mentioned a variant of this roster

If this is a team top four in the EC, the organization is in a fantastic position (and this roster is already much better than the one I expected to win the east this season). If, based on this season, everyone thinks this roster is bottom 4, there need to be significant changes.

These are the two reasons why I remain optimistic about this current group of players:
1) They are still REALLY young
2) This season was a clusterfuck (which was exacerbated by the fact that they are all so young) and I’m confident that a new coach will do wonders

So before evaluating individuals on this roster, I think we should look at it in aggregate first. I think the rotation above is good for 50 wins next season and would use 2008/9 to get the team back on track. Then, Pax could use 2009/10 to tweak, positioning the team for Championship contention over the next 2-4 seasons with Hughes as a useful trade chip to add that last piece.

by paxson43 on Apr 21, 2008 12:10 AM CDT   0 recs

I am mostly hoping

that whoever we are left with will realize how much losing sucks, how much not getting to the playoff sucks, and how much having individual reputations tarnished more than sucks. And that they need to keep that in mind in October and not figure it out next April when it is too late to do anything about it. More than just a couple people need to care next year. What has made the Bulls watchable for me prior to this year is that they put out effort and seemed to care during most games, win or lose. I’d much rather they’d win of course, but even losing while trying is watchable. This season was hardly watchable.

by cranscape on Apr 21, 2008 12:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good point

Since Pax only drafted “winner” maybe this was the first time most of these players have really really lost. So their initial reaction (this season) sucked, but maybe the memory of 2007/8 will fuel them this offseason and into the future. Perhaps just excessive optimism on my part…

by paxson43 on Apr 21, 2008 12:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pax43,

overall I agree, but the one thing that you didn’t address is the organization’s chemistry with their players. After this season, I think it’s more than reasonable to have some serious questions about whether John Paxson needs to change his approach with the players.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 21, 2008 12:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not only Paxson's

approach, but John Paxson’s office and position needs to be eliminated and replaced

by exult463 on Apr 21, 2008 10:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, but President / VP of Basketball Operations is overdone.

So I nominate either “Czar of Player Dealings and Development”. I’d consider “The Decider” or “Passer of Judgment”, but this is not feel-good enough. Maybe something like, “Designated Best Friend to All Bulls Players” or, for short, “Your Special Friend”. More accurately, “Your Special Friend Except During Contract Negotiations, in Which Case We Will F* You Up.”

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 21, 2008 10:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

give it a rest man

Or like someone suggested, just put "I’m the guy who wants pax fired now" in your signature if every comment is going to say it anyway. I can do it for you if you want.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 21, 2008 10:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Last week I had to verify Paxson's title

with the Bulls because I wanted to make sure he wasn’t part of any decision making with the club in any capacity beyond the players and coaches.

by NBA Observer on Apr 21, 2008 11:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Or

AKA, titles and responsibilities that may be under performing at a rate worse than that of the team on the court.

by NBA Observer on Apr 21, 2008 11:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No way...

Does that roster win 50 games.

Don't call me doughboy!

by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 21, 2008 12:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

3 teams in the Eastern conference...

Won 50 or more games this year. The Bulls aren’t even in the same discussion of the talent level they posess.

Don't call me doughboy!

by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 21, 2008 12:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

don't bother

Sefolosha’s birth certificate is probably fake. I’m guessing he’s older than Noc.

by hscs on Apr 21, 2008 8:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right

Thabo comes from that little country renown for poor record-keeping….

by alec on Apr 21, 2008 9:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hole it...

was he actually born in Switz or S.A?

Maybe I have to take that back.

by alec on Apr 21, 2008 9:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

the wiki says

“He was born in Vevey, Switzerland to a Swiss mother and a South African father.”

by cranscape on Apr 21, 2008 9:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Boylan said that his daughter

was born ten days after Thabo in the same hosptial in Switzerland.

by sue369 on Apr 21, 2008 9:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yep

same hospital I was born too, only about 11 years earlier :-(

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Apr 21, 2008 10:21 AM CDT