So you wanna trade Gordon or Deng?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2008 9:17 PM CDT in News Comment 76 comments

As you may have noticed, the 'what I'd do this offseason' diaries and comments have started to accumulate on the site. Usually they include the Bulls giving an opposing GM Rohypnol, and then having their way with their roster while only giving up Andres Nocioni.

But if such a grand plan must turn out lopsided in the favor of the beloved, at least make it cap-legal. The main stickiness involves two of the Bulls better players, Deng and Gordon. Both of whom, you may have heard, are restricted free agents this offseason.

This means you have to remember a few key things when discussing their role in a make-believe Bulls offseason makeover, sorted out by the extremely handy cap FAQ by Larry Coon.

Deng and Gordon cannot be traded before or on draft night. So if you had the idea of using either to move up in the draft, sorry. Bulls can't even negotiate (i.e. "go find something better than $50m, fools!") until the free agency period begins, which is after the draft. Technically, what could happen is that the drafted player remains unsigned until free agency begins and his rights are traded, or that draftee is signed and (after 30 days) is then included in a trade. I don't think a drafted player, especially a lottery pick, has ever been traded that fast, and it seems far-fetched that a pre-arranged deal could occur between draft day and free agency, with both teams and the free agents agreeing.

If Deng and Gordon are signed&traded, they are still treated as base-year compensation players. I was slightly surprised by this one, as I thought perhaps an offseason sign&trade would be a loophole. But after hearing that wasn't the case on Bulls Beat, and looking it up...the BYC status still applies.

Base-year compensation (BYC) is the designation both Hinrich and Nocioni were under this season (as they both received 20% raises when signing their contract extensions), and it basically means that in a trade with both teams over the cap (which is, as we know, nearly everyone), the outgoing salary is considered halved (or $4.5m, or last year's salary. Whichever is greater), while the incoming salary for the recipient is the whole salary.

So let's say Gordon finds his elusive 6/$66m (identical yearly payments) contract with another team that's over the cap. The Bulls can work out a sign&trade with that team, but while the incoming salary for that team would be the $11m, the Bulls outgoing salary would only be considered $5.5m. If a team wanted to deal back an $11m player of their own, that means the Bulls are taking in $11m, while only sending out $5.5m. That's not within the 125% threshhold for a trade, so the trade can't happen.

It's not an impossible situation, there just has to be more players involved. The best candidates financially being Drew Gooden ($7.15m) or Andres Nocioni ($8m. ugh), who have cap figures that are significant but not too much (when combined with a Deng or Gordon). So in the previous example, if the Bulls send out Gordon and Gooden, it's now $12.65m going out, and for the other team it's $18.15m going in. If the other team sends the Bulls a trade package with a total salary of $14.5m, it's within the 125% threshhold for both teams.

So like I said, it isn't impossible. But it's still a pretty tough situation. For the Bulls to execute a successful sign&trade with either Deng or Gordon, they'd have to find a team willing to pay their new salary, also willing to take the additional players needed to mitigate Deng/Gordon's base-year compensation, and then willing to give the Bulls a package they'd accept in return.

Not exactly easy, which is why this will likely be a long, long, offseason for Deng, Gordon and the Bulls. But I applaud anyone's creative effort, and if you can't play within those rules for Deng and Gordon, you can always trade the rest of these guys. Nobody's untouchable. No, Mike McGraw, not even the great Thabo.

0 recs | Comment 76 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

NOT THABO!

Soon to be 24 year old 3rd year guards as raw as Andres Nocioni's self-flagellated back are tough to replace. It's not like the Bulls can get a good look at a guy like Shannon Brown, or select an upgrade in the draft.

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 2, 2008 9:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

to be fair

the team really turned around after sending Ben Gordon to the bench :-)

At least Thabo isn't in 'bust' territory anymore. He's a big guard with good defensive tools (if not a great defender yet) and he can rebound like hell. He's also very good at finishing in transition. That's not, er, untouchable.

At least Luol Deng had some really good years before getting that (fan-driven only) label.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the ideal situation is to find some sucker

to take Noc. That way Thabo is a cheap backup SF, and there's no more small-ball.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2008 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and speaking of Shannon Brown

I'm wonder if they even bother retaining his rights after the season.

Although if they signed him he can be included in a trade package, if they're hurting for money to throw in they can use Simmons (who's signed) instead.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was trying to compare Brown and Curry's

D-League production, and they both played well, although it looks like Curry was a more efficient scorer, and better passer. Neither is guaranteed for next season. I wonder when K.C. will write his official offseason column, and how much weight he gives the pee. I can't believe he changed Thomas' name to "who will be shopped."

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/gamelogs.jsp?player=shannon_brown
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/gamelogs.jsp?player=jameson_curry

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 3, 2008 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A little off topic,

but is there any way the Bulls can get their mascot to play point?

"to the children: Fuck the Bulls." - Matt

by NittanyBull on Apr 2, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

"I felt threatened,"

"I felt threatened," Posey said, according to the newspaper. "They already don't like me here already."

Already? I hate that guy.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Apr 2, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is under sever threat

of being an asshole.

In fact, it may be too late.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 3, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This sounds like something that will ruin

my awesome capology. How dare you all.

If it's discussable, put it in a diary. kthxbye.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2008 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds baaad.

At first he thought it was a teammate tapping him on the back? But then it turned out to be dangerous tshirts? It isn't cool if it turns out they were "shot" but at the same time if he though someone had tapped his shoulder at first...it wasn't that bad. The big question, will Bennie be benched? And for how long? Y'know, I always thought he was a bust. He just wasn't bringing it every night.

by cranscape on Apr 2, 2008 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The real tragedy

would be if he was fired, because he is also my weed guy.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Apr 3, 2008 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I completely forgot about Da Bull. I wonder why they didn't just get someone else to be the mascot.

by shoryuken on Apr 3, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if he's benched

will he have to earn his way back to being the starting mascot?

by NormVanBeer on Apr 3, 2008 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is the duly designated diary now?

put all your bulleted/numbered lists here?

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 2, 2008 10:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

heh

nah, if there's enough effort (if not thought) that there's numbers and bullets in the first place, it can stand on it's own.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't mind

Losing BG. He's the best shooter that we have, but I don't like his selfish style. When comes down the 4th quarter, he always try too do thing by himself and, sometimes, he ends losing the ball and making too many turnovers. So, if I was Pax, I would try to do something like this:

1 - Sign and trade Gordon, maybe in a package with Noce. I like Noce, because he can do so many good things on the court when he's not shooting the ball like a wacky, but if we got to let him go to get someone like Iguodala or Ellis, so be it...

2 - Find a way of get rid of Hughes. The must of us agree that he sucks and that he's taking minutes from Thabo, who is far better and far young.

3 - Keep Deng. He may not become a superstar, like we all want, but with the correct coach I think he's going to score some good points. In the 1st or in the 4th, it doesn't matter to me. All the points are important when we are talking about basketball.

4 - Try too get Iguodala, Ellis, Arenas... Someone who can provide some quality on the backcourt, our big problem on my opinion, because on the frontcourt I believe we have one of the most promising pairs of the game in TT and Noah. They seem to connect well when they are both on the court...

5 - Use Gray, Gooden and all the other crap - hinrich isn't in this definition - that we have on our roster to make this trades happen.

6 - Draft a C, to be a backup of Noah, or Derrick Rose, by far the only player that I would like us to draft. If we, somehow, could get Rose, we can use hinrich on a trade, stay with duhon and forget Arenas

7 - The most importante thing: Fire Boylan and get us a good coach, who can work with the young guys

LET'S COLECT SIGNATURES TO FIRE BOYLAN AND GET RID OF HUGHES

by bull83 on Apr 3, 2008 8:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Gooden isn't crap

It'd be great to trade overpriced-only-good-when-he's-making-baskets Noc, and have a Thomas/Gooden power forward platoon.

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 3, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is all over the place

You want the Bulls to get an Iguodala or Ellis or Arenas for Gordon+Noc, or Hughes, or 'crap' like Gray, Gooden.

But don't want to trade Deng, Thomas, Noah, or Hinrich.

That's not really practical.

And yes, getting Derrick Rose would be nice.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we could send

Hughes and Gooden for Arenas. Or that's not possible? If not, then go for Derrick Rose for whatever takes. Memphis already have Conley, so try to convince them to trade us Rose if they get the second pick.

I just don't want to loose Deng, Thomas, Noah and Thabo - the future guys of this team. The other, 'crap or not', can go...

LET'S COLECT SIGNATURES TO FIRE BOYLAN AND GET RID OF HUGHES

by bull83 on Apr 3, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not possible

If Memphis gets the chance to pick Rose, I think they'll do it and deal whatever else they have. He is kindof a big deal in Memphis already.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention the small ball possiblities

4 PG's and Darko. That's a contender in the West I tell ya.

Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 3, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Understood Matt

I was just wondering if that trade would be possible... With so much going on these days, I don't know what to expect. But one thing i can garantee: I WANT PAX DOING SOMETHING GOOD FOR A CHANGE on the trade market. If he doesn't do that, then maybe it's time to change da GM too

LET'S COLECT SIGNATURES TO FIRE BOYLAN AND GET RID OF HUGHES

by bull83 on Apr 3, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

probably the only shot we have at getting rose

is if:
a. we get the second pick
b. memphis gets the secong pick, and we trade noah, ty, noc, and our pick to memphis for the pick we use for rose and some other memphis scrub.

i like option a

by Conor on Apr 3, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

From Matt's post it seems we obtain more

options and leverage keeping Gordon and Deng for the 2008-9 season and deciding what to do with them 2009-10. The criticism of Ben Gordon fumbling the ball away as the shot clock expires is correct except for the following contingencies.

1- The coaching staff hasn't been smart enough to come up with other options.
2- The rest of the team doesn't have the balls to take a pressured shot.

by chgobr on Apr 3, 2008 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I was leaving this in the chamber

for a later post, but that's not really a good option either.

Signing each to the qualifying offer is sort of a worst-case option for both sides. The Bulls because they can't trade them (without their consent) during the season and then in the offseason can lose them for nothing, and the players because if they sign a QO, that's not exactly encouraging for their long-term future, and they'll likely be treated as such.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matt, this is offtopic to a degree

But I kind of remember you mentioning on your site how to format the blogs so that you don't have links like:
http://blogabull.com/story/2008/4/2/221720/2463#commenttop

Instead it would appear in a different color with a text you want like.

You used this quite a bit in the above post and I thought it might be interesting to read/learn from that prior BaB post.

Thanks.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2008 8:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is from Bleed Cubbie Blue

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/special/posting_tips

by snley on Apr 3, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

I'm going to try to read this when I get time at work (maybe lunch) and hopefully then gone will be my huge links.....

I appreciate the help!

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't worry about reading it, just bookmark it

It'll be easier to just copy and paste the commands for links and blockquotes. Plus, the new SBN format provides buttons to do the linking and block quotes for you. So, once you get used to doing it, you won't need to anymore.

by snley on Apr 3, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I did

Thx

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couple more items for consideration

Matt, I'd like to offer a couple obvious points that posters can assume and skip over when making offseason plans.

We all want and expect Boylan to be fired.
Larry Hughes has a large contract that we would love to be seen dealt for something useful, but chances are the team's stuck with him for next season.

by snley on Apr 3, 2008 9:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you on #1

thankfully(almost), Boylan continues to be so bad that there's no way he comes back. I think they're 5 games behind the Hawks now, sheesh.

But there are scenarios where you can deal Hughes for something useful. That useful thing may have an awful contract, however.

Last offseason the Celtics were able to trade Wally Szczerbiak and the 2/$25.5m left on his deal in a package for Ray Allen (and his 3/$52+m).

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was considering that, and maybe should rephrase.

My objection was to posters simply writing that Hughes's contract needs to be dumped without consideration as to where or for whom.

by snley on Apr 3, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another problem

Is who to go after.
A problem is the Bulls players are all fairly good. There's not many obvious upgrades except at PF and C, but those positions are manned by guys we expect significant improvement from anyway.

I've been looking around and trying to figure out any conceivable means of turning some of our extras into long-term piece somewhere and I'm not seeing a lot of obvious ways to do it.

If we want to get a player who's a clear upgrade to what we have, we have to find another team that has a bad situation they want to escape from. Memphis with Gasol was an example there. Or Seattle with Ray Allen last year. Not that I think Allen would have been a perfect fit for the Bulls; my point is that the Sonics wanted to go in a different (money-saving, youth) direction.

So step one is to find a team that wants to change.

Step two is to find a player on that team that could help us.

Step three is to see if any of our players would fit what they're trying to do.

I guess there are plenty of teams that will want to change. Dallas and Denver will be paying lots of luxury tax and have very little to show for it. Atlanta, Charlotte, Milwaukee and New York all have big salary commitments and aren't making much progress. I'd start looking there.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 3, 2008 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Arenas is that much of a

longshot. It's a longshot, but not impossible.

Sadly our days of duping the Knicks appear to be over, not to mention that their roster blows. I wouldn't put Atlanta in that group because they're ok salary wise. Denver could be saving money in the offseason if Iverson opts out for a long-term deal. Dallas might try and get under the tax, but I don't see them dealing Nowitzki or Howard unless it's for someone better than anyone on the Bulls, and I don't want Kidd, Terry, Stackhouse, Dampier.

You're absolutely right though, look at teams who will be looking to make big changes. The Warriors letting Monta Ellis go (or Philly dealing Iguodala) is not one of them.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

for instance, if the Bulls wanted the distinction

of paying Michael Redd $18.3m in 2010/11, I'm sure the Bucks would oblige.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Random comment on Arenas from last week

http://www.blogabull.com/comments/2008/3/28/93721/5986/24#24

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why don't

We just go after Tim Duncan. Say we trade Duhon, Gooden and Hughes and our draft pick.

Duncan's old and his team needs a change before the whole ship sinks.

I think the Spurs would like that....

Sorry, I'm just making a joke because some of the trades on here have been ridiculous.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do we want Arenas?

I was thinking of Atlanta because the continuing ownership dispute (I think) means that even though they aren't spending in luxury tax land, they basically can't sign any player to longer than a four year contract. Maybe that got resolved and I missed it, but I think it's still working its way through the court system.

Thus, the Hawks are going to have a hell of a time re-signing Josh Smith. I don't really understand how, exactly, the ownership agreement works, but I expect that if they can't sign any player to more than a 4 year deal, they can't trade for a player who has more than four year left either.

If those are the rules they have to play by, it seems like the Bulls could offer them some sort of sign and trade deal for Josh Smith that would at least give them a return.

That doesn't make me sold on Josh Smith (who seems to present some of the same um... "issues" as Tyrus, just in a better player), but I'm at least willing to consider the possibility. Something like a sign and trade of Noc + Tyrus (tomorrow's Joe Smith) for today's Josh Smith might be interesting.

(I think under the ownership dispute agreement the Hawks could accept Noc back because, although he's got 5 years left on his contract, the final year is a team option, so it's purely at the Hawk's discretion)

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 3, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they'll go the easy route

and wait until someone signs Smith to an offer sheet, and just match it. I wonder if that gets around the 'agreement' you linked (which is pretty interesting).

The real catch would be Josh Childress, who they may (foolishly) let go because they still feel the need to justify their pick of Marvin Williams. Not sure that he's a fit for the Bulls necessarily though.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't really see Josh Smith

with a large contract as an improvement over anybody the bulls have. Just because he hits the occasional 3 doesn't make it any less ridiculous that he hangs out on the perimeter. I'm sure if TT spent the summer practicing 3's he could hit 26%, too.

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 3, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd also make the claim

that Tyrus is a better overall defender.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How are defensive win shares measured?

I was just looking at the leaders (for the specialists comment), and Josh Smith was sixth in the NBA this year. So, Thomas, using this metric, would have to play a lot of minutes and sort of be one of the five best defenders in the league. Given his league-best (I think) rating of 93 he had last year, that argument could definitely be made, but it would be tough.

God, I wish Thomas could have been played 3,000 minutes through his first two seasons.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've never even looked at defensive

win shares.

I was just observing. From what I read Smith is a great help defender but no so much on his own guy. I suppose you could say the same about Thomas against bigger PFs, but Thomas does a decent job out on the perimeter that I'd guess Smith doesn't feel like doing.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Smith is a much better on ball defender

than Tyrus when focused on it (like during the last 5 minutes a game). Smith is also a much better ball handler and better able to finish in traffic/with contact. That being said, I don't think the Bulls should spend $50 million plus on a guy that is so similar to somebody already on the Bulls roster.

On the topic of Arenas, he said the other day that he would take a paycut to resign with the Wizards if they are able to lock up Jamison. I doubt he is going anywhere.

by shoryuken on Apr 3, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Various things

* Smith vs. Thomas defensively? I've got no clue. They both strike me as being less than the sum of their stats.

Statistically, looking at Smith's 1st year vs. Thomas' 1st year, I'd take Smith's. And I'd take Smith's 2nd over Thomas' 2nd year.

Should we spend $50M for him? I dunno. I'd probably offer a bit less, but we also should be keeping in mind that we'll have to offer Thomas a new contract down the road too. If I had to choose at this point, I'd prefer $50M on Smith to $38M on Noc and $38M on Tyrus.

* Arenas, likewise, seems less than the sum of his parts. He talks so much I think people would end up hating him. Plays like Steve Francis (right down to the series of injuries... we'll see if he comes back from them), talks like Jalen Rose. I'm desperate, but I'd want to see how he does on the court before I take that sort of chance.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 3, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do you think are Josh Smith's negatives?

I like his strengths, but I think his negatives are too strong and require luck and circumstance to overcome.

My list of negatives on Josh Smith

poor shot selection
below average shooter outside of the paint
Is he a 3 or 4 and thus another version of Andrei Kirilenko?
has a shooting percentage of a guard

Number 1 is really important. His shot selection is so poor that he would have to add 3-4 additional dunks/layups each night to get it up somewhere acceptable for a tweener forward. He's not a three point shooter and he has difficulty passing it up whenever he's open.

The Bulls-Tyrus Thomas relationship sounds pretty bad. I hope it can improve. I think Tyrus could be really good. He's too young and too raw to throw it all away now. The organization was patient with Curry and Chandler. Is Thomas really that bad that we can't even get to season three with him?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 3, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you think

they were "patient" with Curry and Chandler??

by NormVanBeer on Apr 3, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Umm

4 years for Curry and 5 years for Chandler isn't 'patient'?

What is it?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 3, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, seeing as though...

... Tyrus Thomas was a redshirt freshman when we drafted him (2 years out of high school) and both Curry and Chandler were true high school seniors when we drafted them, not to mention we were absolutely HORRIBLE with no leaders on the team and coaching that wasn't worth a damn when Curry and Chandler were drafted then we started burning through coaches and they never truly were put in good situations. Compare that to Tyrus being drafted and having a year under Skiles. The Bulls were very patient with Curry and Chandler. But I think we have been impatient with Thomas. I would hope that the success of Tyson Chandler would encourage our brass not to move Thomas. I think he can be a magnificent player...but we gotta let him play basketball and stop asking him to think so much.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 3, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about "specialists?"

If we can't get better, all-around players, what about getting players that specialize, or at least better than what their counter-part would be. Similar to what they did with Joe Smith. Presumably, the thinking was more than just "old guy", but more along the lines: Thomas is our future who excels on defense but has questionable offense, especially from the outside. Smith is sort of the opposite. That might not be what they thought, but that's the idea. Drafting Hawes instead of Noah to "complement" Wallace would have been a similar move. Thabo along with Gordon was a similar move.

I don't know if there's that much out there that fits precisely that mold.

I agree with HCSC (and was thinking this last night), that a PF of Gooden and Thomas could be (I'd say probably be) among the Top-5 (at least Top-10) productions out of PF in the league. So maybe look for a more offensive-minded C to pair with Noah. Maybe a more-established, better defensive SF instead of Nocioni. Or someone at PG who is your "pure" version, but better than Duhon.

I really have no idea, and this is the first I've thought of this, but I'm just wondering...

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Qualifying offer for BG

What if the Bulls DON'T extend a qualifying offer BG. He then becomes an UFA. So what. Now the Bulls have an $8-10 million space in their salary cap as opposed to being constrained by BG's BYC if they offer him the qualifying offer. Now we can go after a Josh Childress.

Second point-I still feel that Thabo can be a point guard. Now we can keep Hughes and Kirk.

by hlac on Apr 3, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I thought this didn't need to be included in

the main post as another cap point, as I thought it was obvious.

Bulls are over the cap with or without Gordon's cap hold.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

According to the salary info at Sport2.com

Assuming that I'm interpreting it correctly, if the Bulls did not extend the QO to Gordon, they would be approx. $4.7 million under the Cap. If they don't extend the QO to Gordon AND Deng, they would be $9 million under the cap.

by hlac on Apr 7, 2008 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No team can be $4.7m under the cap

basically, it's a lower figure than what they can offer a free agent if they're over the cap and use the mid-level exception.

If they renounce the rights to everyone (Gordon, Deng, Duhon, PeeOn, I believe they still have rights to Mike Sweetney which is a cap hold)...maybe they get to $9m. Which could get you someone who's better than a MLE player but not quite a max contract player. Hey, like Gordon and Deng!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 7, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ah, someone already did the leg-work

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=16001090#16001090

they're not renouncing the rights to Gordon or Deng. It's not like the old days where they get a 'slot' to sign a player for the same money that the player you lost made (I think it used to go something like that).

And jimminy christmas, Ben Gordon is too good to just let go for nothing.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 7, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My goodness

I am somewhat overwhelmed after visiting realgm. The reason this isn't rocket science is because rocket science is logical. It must be like dealing with environmental regulations. As to your last point let's declare a truce until Pax has a chance to work his magic, if, in fact, that is what he has.

by hlac on Apr 7, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matt

I just went back to realgm. The ad at the top of the page was from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Matt, this does not bode well.

by hlac on Apr 8, 2008 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Informative.

However, let's refrain from trading Deng and Gordon. Instead, trade Hughes for a Fukudome Topps rookie card.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Apr 3, 2008 12:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Some nice available players

from McGraw's article. As a TS% diehard, the Maggettes, Redds, and Brands are dream acquisitions.

I wonder if Gordon, Deng, and our 1st for Brand and Maggette would be enough.

PG Hinrich
SG Maggette
SF Nocioni
PF Gooden
C Brand

by YaoPau on Apr 3, 2008 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Deng and Gordon are off limits

for or with 08 draft picks. I read that somewhere. Maggette has an ETO this summer too.

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 3, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holy crap! Where?!?!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that may be the worst defensive lineup

in the league

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A good start when talking about our assets

is to not refer to them as "Pee On" or predefine the receiving team of our assets as "suckers".

More of this and less of that.

We didn't trade Eddy Curry the cheeseburger lover. We traded Eddy Curry the NBA center.

We didn't acquire Luol Deng the humanitarian. We acquired Luol Deng the SF NBA prospect.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 3, 2008 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think our biggest factor

is the head coaching position. It's crucial in determining if we want to transition the club from a defensively driven team to an uptempo driven team.

If we can decide one way or the other which style we want to pursue that will determine how much value we place on Gordon and Deng and how players under contract like Gooden, Hughes, Hinrich, and Nocioni fit into the picture.

Basically, the last thing I want to do is hire Jeff Van Gundy AND keep Ben Gordon when we know JVG is going to push a half court offense with the ball in Gordon's hands which is a 50/50 success to failure strategy.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 3, 2008 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Up tempo and good D aren't mutually exclusive.

I've posted Bulls pace factors and defensive ratings here enough to have no desire to do it again.

by snley on Apr 3, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was referring to Reinsdorf's comments

about the style of basketball he prefers which extends to the front office, coaching, and player decisions, not the actual pace statistics.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 3, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You made it sound like an either or situation.

While Reinsdorf doesn't indicate a preferred pace, he only mentions a focus on defense and movement of the players and the ball on offense.

But whoever the coach is, he still has to be somebody who believes in our basic philosophy, which is the game still has to be a defensive game and we want an offense that involves movement of the ball and movement off the ball.

My guess is that Paxson will be looking for a coach who can make a system fit these players more than looking for a coach who is tied to any sort of system. If players like Hinrich, Thomas and Noah are remaining part of the core, that will entail up tempo play.

by snley on Apr 3, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why is no one stating the obvious?

K. Hinrich is a fuckin bum. If we've been patient with any1 its him. The only thing i like about him is he's a catalyst for our offense but he's a freakin PG he's supposed to do that. He's overpaid and overrated. We got Noah and THomas, Hinrich never alley-oops them. The only ones we get are from Larry Hughes and Ben Gordon. FUCK HINRICH.

by AFireInside661 on Apr 4, 2008 7:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you've hit on something

the reason the bulls have been so bad is not enough alley oops. I have a sneaky suspicion that along with headbands, Reinsdorf/Paxson may also have a team rule against the oop. Too much hip hop influence. Does anybody know anything about this?

Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 4, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He tried an oop to Thomas

Thursday night...it was broken up by Wallace. Which means he just should've thrown it higher :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 4, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Ben Gordon leaves,

the Bulls should look into finding a traditional, European (or European-style) jump-shooter. I mean, not to completely bash Ben Gordon or anything, but that's kind of what his game is anyway, since he doesn't get to the hoop and doesn't get to the line. It's just jump shots and more jump shots.

With that in mind, perhaps the Bulls should look into acquiring Marco Belinelli. He's 6'5 to 6'6, still isn't a great defender, but his clutch shooting drew rave reviews from Nellie during last year's summer league, to the point where Nellie said he had star potential.

Then the regular season started. And Belinelli got buried on the Warriors' bench. Well other Euro-style jumpshooters have done fine when traded after riding the bench. See Gordon Giricek in Phoenix, for example.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 7, 2008 3:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

oh my.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 7, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, Neil Funk. :)

But no, really.

Look, Peja Stojakovic only averaged 8.4 points per game in his first year in the NBA. So there is an adjustment period for Euroshooters, just like with any rookie.

I'm not saying that Belinelli is the next Peja (nor is he the next Ben Gordon).

Just that the Bulls are in a bind if Gordon leaves; they need shot makers; no "stars" would seem to be available; the Bulls are cheap; and Belinelli received a lot of hype coming into the league.

Right now the Bulls' outside threats are Gordon (may be leaving), Hinrich (career 40% shooter and slumping miserably), Thabo (an iffy proposition), Larry Hughes (not as good as he thinks he is), Nocioni (widely labeled a chucker on here) and Demitris Nichols (way green). Duhon's gone (and wasn't great from 3 anyway), and JamesOn Curry seems to have off-the-court issues. Shannon Brown apparently shoots 30% from three.

To replace or surpass Gordon's production, the Bulls would have to take a chance on someone, or multiple someones. So other than the draft, this once-proud franchise is shopping in the bargain bins.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 7, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs