Vescey: Skiles wasn't fired

by NBA Observer on Apr 15, 2008 8:37 AM CDT

Contrary to what you were spoon-fed to believe, Skiles was not fired. He asked out early and often this season, telling superiors he felt he wasn't the right guy for the job and that he wasn't getting through to the players anymore. Their approach and the team's record reflect as much.

Reinsdorf refused to let him walk away from his obligation unless he gave up a portion (I don't know the forfeited amount) of his remaining guarantee.

That's all from an infallible authority and confirmed by others in the know.

NY Post Link

Keith Glass(Skiles' agent drawn from an interview with Mike North on WSCR): "Yea he was fired. I don't know what else you'd call it."

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Alternate Spin

Well, that's two way to interpret things:

One way.
Skiles felt he wasn't the right guy for the job (and someone else could do a better job) and that he wasn't getting through to the players anymore (but someone else could). Their approach and the team's record reflect as much (because, given a new coach, who the players won't hate, there will be a wonderful turnaround... oops, doesn't like that one happened).

Another way.
Skiles felt he was't the right guy for the job (because no guy is the right guy to coach this mess) and that he wasn't getting through to the players anymore (because they weren't as good as they thought, worried about money, and pissed off at each other). Their approach and the team's record reflect as much (especially after Skiles departed).

In short, one way to look at it is that Skiles looked at the team and said "Pax, I see problems with the players and you need to deal with them because I don't think I can coach this group". The question is whether the problems were problems due to coaching or problems due to the talent that had been assembled. The rest of the season has made it pretty clear the mix of talent is leaving a lot to be desired.

Perhaps the coaching did too, but my reading is that even back before the season started Skiles was concerned about how guys were going to react to the lack of meaningful trades (getting a frontcourt scorer like Gasol), the talent and playing time crunches that were likely, and the contract issues. Skiles knew these guys and knew what was coming.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 15, 2008 9:26 AM CDT 0 recs

about the first way

boylan wasn't really "new," they all knew him and also recognized him as skiles' right hand man. why would they listen to a guy who follows in the footsteps of someone they already don't like? also, implied with "new" is "competent," which clearly boylan isn't.

but i do think skiles knew something was up, he knew the guys weren't listening to him anymore for whatever reason so he had to go.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 15, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up 0 recs

Last week

KC was on CTL and I know this is just his opinion but KC said Skiles saw this in the preseason and knew he had lost this team before the regular season started. Wish we really knew what all went on that caused this season to be so awful.

by sue369 on Apr 15, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

"Jordan Still Rules" by Sam Smith

Write it Sam. I really would like to know all the details of this season.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 15, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

You've misconstrued the title of the book.

the title of the book was not the thought that "Jordan Rules the NBA".

Rather it was referring to a set of rules for playing against Jordan. It was called "The Jordan Rules" (the way you'd discuss "the Olympic rules" as compared to the set of "NBA rules" or "the NBDL rules"), and the title was based on a set of principles employed by Chuck Daley to rough up Jordan, since this was their best and only way to stop him (pre-91).

I guess what I'm saying is, Ha, ha, you fool! You've made the classic "adjectival phrase versus subject-predicate confusion" mistake!

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 16, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up 0 recs

hehe

Yeah, that classic...takes me right back to diagramming sentences in 7th grade.

by alec on Apr 16, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up 0 recs

The wording is off

But I didn't misconstrue the grammar. I know what "The Jordan Rules" are about. My concept is just that these rules are still dominating the thinking of the organization.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 16, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up 0 recs

This story's been circulating

since post-Skiles 00:00.01.

Vescey is absolutely the worst of the 'old school' nba writers, grasping at the last shreds of his relevance.

by alec on Apr 15, 2008 9:57 AM CDT 0 recs

I understand that

I just see it as a wart on the organization that will be healed when the organization explains what happened. Upon conclusion of this season I hope to learn the actual story.

I realize there are many ways to spin the story. Being that it's Skiles, I think it's important to set the record straight in the press otherwise the same stories that haunted Skiles in Phoenix will just follow him around with another set of shadows from Chicago.

It's not right. I thought Skiles was straight forward with Chicago and the story should be told accurately.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 15, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up 0 recs

Who's to say that this is the true story?

The NY Post doesn't exactly stand as a beacon for accurate news reporting. Even if it is true, to whom do the Bulls owe it to "set the record straight?" Skiles publicly stated he quit on the team. That's going to hurt him no matter if in the end he resigned or was fired. Skiles has had plenty of time to give his side of the story if he felt that to be warranted. Anything that haunts him hereafter is of his own doing.

by snley on Apr 15, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

The point is this story

is solely about Vexcey's ego. He wants to appear relevant; he wants to have some impact on public opinion as the Knicks try to figure out who will be their next coach. Other than that, there is no reason whatsoever to rehash this old unnamed sources story.

by alec on Apr 15, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up 0 recs

I don't care, I like Vescey

And he does have his sources. I don't think this story's that far-fetched, even if the timing's weird.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 15, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

The timing is in respect to the Knicks

And their potential hiring of Skiles as the coach.

Skiles (at least from the second-hand accounts) seems to have been saying "I'm doing everything I can and it's not working". That ain't quitting, it's an assessment of the situation. Probably an honest assessment at that. Not at all the same thing as quitting though.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 15, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

re: the Knicks hire

uh, whoops. I should've figured that one out :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 15, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

what?

Why the attack on Vecsey? He's somewhat abrasive but he does not usually traffic in baseless stories. I'm not sure how a false Skiles story would enhance his comments regarding the next Knicks coach.

by Stay Chisel on Apr 15, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

I have nothing against his writing.

I think he's one of the better sports writing stylists, but I've always been bothered by the level of egotism in his stuff...and I see this story as nothing more than another example of his ego.

by alec on Apr 15, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

Vescey is on the NBA's payroll

He does analyst work for NBATV.

His NY Post column is different than his TV analysis, but they're both plugged into the same sources.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 15, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

Where did Skiles make public comments?

Skiles publicly stated he quit on the team.

I know I didn't see every story this year, but this one would be significant. Do you recall any of the details about this public comment from Skiles?

Right now Keith Glass is under instruction from Skiles to provide "No Comment" to all press inquiries about where Skiles may end up coaching. Skiles prefers not to disrupt any active coaches that may or may not be terminated.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 15, 2008 10:26 AM CDT 0 recs

I apologize, I misremembered

I was thinking of Ben Wallace saying that the players believed Skiles quit on the team, so they quit on him. I found the post from Matt that referenced that, but the original Sam Smith story is no longer available from chicagosports.com.

by snley on Apr 15, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up 0 recs

Sam's good

I'll dig amongst the archives. Just knowing it was Sam Smith makes the search all that easier.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 15, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

Skiles was selfish and apathetic

Now we know where the players learned it.

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 15, 2008 1:24 PM CDT 0 recs

harsh...

words, though difficult to argue against. most coaches would have persevered through the bad times to try to right the ship out of pride or obligation. if skiles felt he wasn't the right one for this team for whatever reason, and requested his own removal, then he essentially 'quit' the team, regardless of if the team already exhibited some dysfunctional tendencies.

by leeac on Apr 15, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

I like Vescey

I met him at the Berto Center when Michael returned. We talked for about 1/2 hour. He always answers my e-mails. He reminds me of Sam Smith. He loves to make jokes and he loves Pro basketball.

Thank you to NBA Observer to posting this diary. I find the coaching derby now under way fascinating. I am just guessing, but I think the most likely Bulls choice is Carlisle. I don't know why I feel this way but I think Carlisle fits well with Paxson. I do think Carlisle did a great job with the Pacers, particularly post fight at the Palace.

by chgobr on Apr 15, 2008 7:05 PM CDT 0 recs

KC's Tribune story

about the Bulls today gives you as many hints as necessary to suggest the job is almost certainly Carlisle's for the taking.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 16, 2008 8:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

i read it the same

I don't think Carlisle is the best for the job, but it almost seems as if Paxson has made his decision.

by NormVanBeer on Apr 16, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up 0 recs

read the MJS then

Because Carlisle is as good as signed in Milwaukee too. He's the only well-known coach out there who isn't wacky Larry Brown, why wouldn't he be reported as a top candidate? No team is going to leak anything real while everyone is setting a price.

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 16, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up 0 recs

MJS = Milwaukee Journal Sentinal?

Didn't read it, but I'm guessing it's about new GM Hammond and his previous connections as a friend and associate of Carlisle?

I think the Bulls roster is more suited to Carlisle's approach than the Bucks roster. Although, each roster could be blown up, but it's still difficult to see where else all these players could go if they were to be shopped.

All the coaches I really want now have playoff commitments.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 16, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up 0 recs

gee, I can't wait for that list to surface!

If they both want Carlisle, you'd think the Bulls win out.

If Milwaukee hires Skiles then as a consolation prize it's not a bad move. He'll get them to play at least average defense, anyway.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up 0 recs

re: coaching list

We should be bummed that both Denver and Dallas made the playoffs and therefore didn't cause a reactionary firing of their coaches.

Though I suppose first-round flameouts could be seen as just as bad...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up 0 recs

Since you struggle with asking questions

Mitchell, Karl, Avery.

Why are you an asshole Matt?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 16, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up 0 recs

(I'm sure it's some insecurity thing)

but I admit I took that comment a bit too far.

As to why: at first read, it looked like another secret (like your draft prospects and your makebelieve video project) and you couldn't tell us because it was so damned important it'd violate NBA tampering rules.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up 0 recs

Tell me about page loads Matt

and I'll tell you about generating revenue.

How many hints do you need? I gotta have more ridicule.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 16, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up 0 recs

I don't want to stomp on your dreams

so I applaud any advances you make in your scouting ventures, especially if it's displayed here.

That doesn't mean I can't rip on mentions of its development until seeing results. At least, like, start a blog or something. Suckers like me have been burned out of ten bucks for less.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

also

Sam Mitchell???

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up 0 recs

No, Senator George Mitchell

Yes, Sam Mitchell.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 16, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up 0 recs

yet another instance of you not observing

I know you meant Sam Mitchell, just surprised you think he's a good coach.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up 0 recs

I pay attention to the Colangelos

Want to orchestrate a sale of the Bulls to Jerry Colangelo?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 16, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up 0 recs

Isn't Colangelo looking for

an excuse to fire Mitchell? I seem to remember that being the sentiment last year. Mitchell surely isn't Colangelo's boy.

by snley on Apr 16, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

winning COY

last year certainly didn't help Colangelo's case for that. That bought Mitchell at least a couple more seasons.

by NormVanBeer on Apr 16, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

I hope not

Not just because it's a rude thing to say (thanks for bringing it back PTI!), but you're confusing the Colangelos.

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 16, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up 0 recs

I was referring to Colangelo the Younger.

Since he referred to "Colangelos" plural and Sam Mitchell, assumed there shouldn't be confusion.

by snley on Apr 16, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

"organizations win championships"

I dunno, Reinsdorf's won a heck of a lot more, and the Colangelo's, while chicago guys have made mistakes of their own.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

Like nearly running the Diamondbacks into

bankruptcy?

by snley on Apr 16, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

As a Cubs fan,

I'd take their 2001 world championship...even if it broke poor Sam Zell in the process.

by alec on Apr 16, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

The Carlisle to Bucks

rumor surfaced before Hammonds hiring, but then Kohl wanted Hammonds from the beginning. The Pistons first said no to Kohl, but changed their mind and freed Hammond from his obligations.

by KT on Apr 16, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up 0 recs

KC has a history of being wrong

about what Pax is going to do. First one, he thought there was no way Pax was going to take the GM job, and the next day he did.

Carlisle is probably leaking info that he's a candidate to both to drive up his price. Sam Smith, on Mike North last week said he is pretty sure Pax doesn't have a specific candidate in mind and is going to talk to a lot of people before he offers someone a job. I would go with Sam on this one.

by KT on Apr 16, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up 0 recs

The guys on AM1000 last night

were discussing all of the really interesting names for coaching vacancies that were brought up by Vecsey in this same column.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04152008/sports/coaching_carousel__all_aboard__106527.htm?page=0

They basically almost read the last few paragraphs of the article on the air, before joking about how after Cartwright there's a "no big man" coaching rule in the NBA.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 16, 2008 9:30 AM CDT 0 recs