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Open Game Thread #80: Bulls vs. Orlando Magic

Chicago_bulls_logo_tiny by chgobr on

[ed. note: Thanks to chgobr for today's game preview. -Matt]

A loss tonight ties us with Charlotte and puts us two games behind Jersey with two games left.  Tie breakers are broken by drawings so we will not be penalized by having won the series with Charlotte 3-1.  The 8th pick is possible.  

We have a disease.  Noah discusses how it can spread. You gotta love this guy.  

"It's a disease, and it spreads throughout the whole team," Noah said calmly. "It's just really, really hard right now because regardless what we do, there's no light at the end of the tunnel, especially for this season.

"We're not really playing with a lot of pride and respect for the jersey. It's just hard because you can't point at anybody individually. It's just our togetherness as a team is just bad. You can talk about Florida. But if you're a Bulls fan, I'm not a champion anymore. We're losers. We lose. That's all we do. That's all there is to say."


My recurring nightmare - the disease spreads to next season. We need infectious disease control.

RANDOM TOUGHTS as we enter the most important part of next season:

Star-divide

1.    The obvious - Find the right coach.  Rick Carlisle's name is popping up in the New York Post

Walsh is not bent on seeking an experienced coach, otherwise Rick Carlisle and Scott Skiles would be favorites. Carlisle is being pursued by Milwaukee. Skiles is at a terrible disadvantage because Curry and Jamal Crawford both dislike him - and the feeling is mutual.  and in the Milwaukee Journal . Carlisle would win soon. He won big very quickly in Indiana and Detroit, where he once worked with Hammond. It would seem like a natural fit. But Carlisle will be in great demand. Chicago and New York may want to hire him. It's time for the senator's wallet to again compete with the big boys. Carlisle is incredibly demanding, which would be perfect for this undisciplined team. He also struggles with people skills, which was a reason why he was fired after winning 50 games for two franchises. Maybe he has learned from those experiences. Even if he has not, that's OK, because the short-term tradeoff for this organization would be worth it. The Sun-Times quote below has a different take on Carlisle, Skiles and New York. I believe the New York Post on this one. The belief in New York is that Walsh has decided to make a change. There's already talk about who will replace Thomas. Former Bulls coach Scott Skiles is thought to be the front-runner, with former Knicks guard Mark Jackson, Boston Celtics assistant Tom Thibodeau and Knicks assistant Herb Williams as possible other candidates.

2.    Don't overpay Deng.  
3.    Gordon playing for the one year qualifying offer of $6.4 is a good deal for the Bulls.  We get to evaluate him for another year before deciding what to do with him.
4.    Attempt to move one or both long-term contracts of Hinrich and/or Nocioni.  Maybe we can get a 2009 1st round pick and a better contract.
5.    Moving Hughes contract is mission impossible without taking on a worse contract.  Contingency plan - attempt to coach Hughes into a defensive stopper.
6.    Get lucky in the draft.  With almost 400 comments in our endless draft thread I'm totally confused who we should take at the 8-9 pick.  It seems to me there isn't much difference 3-12, but what do I know.
7.    Is DeSagana Diop someone we should consider? I believe he will be a free agent.  Can we get him for a reasonable price?  He could back-up Noah.  Gray becomes the third option.  

Oh yes - we play the Magic 6 PM tonight.  The game is on Comcast.   Can you resist watching when there are only three games left?

BLOGGING WITH THE ENEMY:
Orlando Magic Blog
SB Nation Magic Blog

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Don't overpay Deng... check.
Make Ben Gordon untradeable, and overpay for Diop with players, and money? Not so much.
Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 13, 2008 9:18 AM CDT   0 recs

You know
I don't think Donnie Walsh is going to  care that Curry and Crawford don't like Skiles.  I think Curry and Crawford need to worry about Walsh not liking them.

by KT on Apr 13, 2008 9:36 AM CDT   0 recs

I would love to believe that Donnie Walsh
will change things in NY. But the jury is out with regard to how much latitude Walsh will actually have.

James Dolan has this special trick he does where he hires some of the best and most brilliant minds in basketball, then sabotages their leadership. He does this by either demanding that they give up all decision-making authority and turning them into yes-men (think Lenny Wilkens). The only input that is accepted from these hires is a flashy, short-term solution that will do little to change the culture of the franchise (think Larry Brown's acquisition of Steve Francis, or Isiah's acquisition of, well, anyone).

So what makes anyone think that Donnie Walsh is above this trend? He's already started being a yes-man, by refusing to fire Isiah, and now, implying that Isiah will at least remain part of the organization next season, and possibly may be coaching.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 14, 2008 4:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Walsh did make some breakthroughs
He gets to author his own media policy for the club.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5giIVeWSCq15i4FI6SGZ0RZeCtRiAD8VQ0HJO1

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2008 5:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Holy crap, Diop sucks.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 13, 2008 10:47 AM CDT   0 recs

I also don't understand...
...the "do the QO w/ Gordon so the Bulls get another year to evaluate him". A) It's not like there's much to figure out. He is what he is. I, along with a few others, like it. Some don't. B) I can't see Gordon sticking around after next year if the Bulls only offer the QO. I really can't even see him sticking around for next year. When he is clearly the best offensive player on an offensively-deficient team, how is spending a third year on the bench going to help his value any?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 13, 2008 10:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think
Gordon's value goes up if he can get back to the efficient shooting he had when he peaked last year. Pair him with a taller, defensively minded guard and we could get scoring power from him while taking the edge off his defensive and ball handling limitations.  That would the way Gordon could be worth it.    

by cranscape on Apr 13, 2008 1:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Worth it to the team?
My point is that it's a known. You have to make up for his deficiencies for him to be "worth it". They aren't going to learn anything new. If they want him around for next year, fine, but it won't be to "learn more about him."
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 13, 2008 3:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Most players
are not perfect or even great in every facet of the game.  You have to find a balance with anyone.  Gordon has some flaws, but I do like his upside.  I can't say he has a place on this team next year, but there are ways he could be on the team and contribute without his flaws being fatal for us. We need guys who can score like he can so if we get rid of him we need address the hole he leaves.  We can't just get another defensive guy who might give us 10 points a  night.  We need an offensive player and who would that be?

by cranscape on Apr 13, 2008 4:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Apparently, I'm not expressing myself clearly.
Do I think Gordon is good? Mostly.
Do I think Gordon's scoring is damn valuable to the Bulls? Yes.
Would I like to see the Bulls keep him around? Depends, but probably.
Do I think the Bulls will learn something new by "evaluat[ing] him for another year before decid[ing] what to do with him"? No, because Gordon is what he is and it likely won't be the Bulls choice "what to do with him" if they only offer him the QO or what-not.

I'd write it off as poor wording by the original author, but it's a sentiment that's crept up a couple of times here. As if the Bulls will have a large say in the matter a year from now. If the Bulls only bring Gordon back for one more year, it would basically be to evaluate the OTHER players on the team to see who (at what position) can help replace the scoring of Gordon in the future while having Gordon around during that development time.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 13, 2008 5:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ah, well then.
As far as evaluating goes, I don't really expect him to get better defensively or as a ball handler.  He could improve his efficiency at shooting to the level he was last year...but yeah, we pretty much know his cans and cannots.  If we keep him it would because we like what he is or can't do any better.  

If anything, by not signing him at the beginning of the season THIS was his evaluation year.  And we know how this year went down.

by cranscape on Apr 13, 2008 6:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dude,
Take a look at his wingspan, then tell me he sucks.
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 8 - Deciding whether next season is going to be similar to Kemp 95-96 or better.

by cubbybear on Apr 13, 2008 2:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Diop does not suck
He would just be a redundant roster addition when we already have Noah.

Of all the positions, I think center is already established with Noah and Gray.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2008 8:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

agreed, he doesn't suck
but he's not that redundant to Noah, as he's far bigger. So he's redundant to Gray, and would be a better fit since usually you want your big ox to be able to play some post defense since it's assumed they can't do much else. They're not going to sign him as a FA anyway, so I will now rip on Aaron Gray.

Gray doesn't belong in a real NBA rotation, unless he goes to the same mythical body-makeover camp that everyone claims Kevin Love will go. I think Eddy Curry's on the waiting list still.

I guess he can play once a week if you have someone like Gooden (who's at least strong) playing alongside Thomas and/or Noah getting the majority of the time. Bullshooter's idea of having him 'develop' into a '20 minute guy' seems really far-fetched at this point.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2008 9:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I should probably love Diop
considering he would arrive with conditioning, coaching, and confidence entirely developed outside the Bulls organization.

I haven't ruled out Gray's development into our future contract voids at color commentary in the television and radio seats.  :)

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2008 9:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

supposedly, Gray's
a pretty entertaining fellow (off the court, anyway), so he'd be a step up in the TV booth.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2008 10:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll wait...
...until he doesn't suck on a team with four competent-to-damn good offensive players to change my mind. He's horrid on offense. If a player has to be matched up with that many offensive weapons to be effective, he better be Ben Wallace or Dikembe Mutombo on defense.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 14, 2008 11:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hughes
cant the bulls trade his contract and something more attractive for a shitty contract that could be useful (such as a 7 footer who can rebound not named  Gray).

by Sambossanova on Apr 13, 2008 10:48 AM CDT   0 recs

The money has to match...
what 7 footer out there would you want that has a contract as massive a Hughes?  A 7 footer who would be taking time away from our young bigs.  Because if we are paying him that much we'd be inclined to give him minutes to match.  And if there is a 7 footer out there that someone would be willing to trade for Hughes he'd likely suck anyway.  

by cranscape on Apr 13, 2008 1:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I really
hope they find a way to get rid of Hughes and a way to keep Kirk.

by sue369 on Apr 13, 2008 11:13 AM CDT   0 recs

I actually see Kirk staying
Getting a more pure pg, and moving him to SG after BG7 is the "rainmaker" somewhere else.

Maybe Pax will be bold and trade to move up and take Rose, or trade BG(or something else) for a guy like TJ Ford, who, despite injuries(lots of them, I know), can play.

Rose/Ford
Hinrich/Thabo
Deng/Noce
Thomas/Gooden
Noah/Gray

BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 8 - Deciding whether next season is going to be similar to Kemp 95-96 or better.

by cubbybear on Apr 13, 2008 3:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I really
hope you are right.

by sue369 on Apr 13, 2008 4:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ditto
I want to braid Noah's hair or at least give him a headband.

by AGBallinisaHabit on Apr 13, 2008 10:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

we cant keep kirk
hes worth too much in a trade.. we have to get him and some other bulls player who hasnt been up to par this year Noc/Deng, possibly TT, and get someone else to lead this team to victory. we cant trade gordon, cuz hes probably the most valuable player on our team right now. and, theres no way anyones willing to pay Hughes 12 mil. hinrich doesnt cut it.. remember how much he sucked in the beginning of the season?? who cares about a draft pick, i mean weve been working around young players these past few years and it hasnt worked too well this season.. we need to lose these last few games, get a high pick, maybe keep him, though he may come in handy in the trade.. who knowss... id just hate to be in paxsons shoes this offseason cuz if he doesnt better this team, hell, perfect it, hed be gettin a lot of hate from the Chi.

by BG74EVER on Apr 13, 2008 4:52 PM CDT   0 recs

Um, in case
you weren't watching at the beginning of the season they all sucked. Guess we will have to wait and see who Pax decides to trade.

by sue369 on Apr 13, 2008 8:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Am I
the only one who thinks that we should wait to see what other teams are offering Gordon and Deng before we decide what to pay them.  We can always match the offers and keep them.  Or, if the offers are above our price range, we could try a sign and trade.  This is the thing that Cleveland did to Varejao at the end of last year.  They let the market determine what they were going to pay him.  

by jpchi on Apr 13, 2008 6:07 PM CDT   0 recs

sign and trade with BG/Deng
Are difficult.  I thought it would be easy to sign and trade them, but apparently if BG and Deng are signed and dealt they would be BYC(base year contract) deals which are rather difficult to trade.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2008 8:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

anybody have a link to a feed
my usual sources aren't coming through.
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 13, 2008 6:10 PM CDT   0 recs

what are
your usual sources?

by BG74EVER on Apr 13, 2008 6:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

trust me...
the way the game is starting out, you should be glad that your sources aren't coming through

by NormVanBeer on Apr 13, 2008 6:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm actually feeling a little sad that it's
the last week of the season.  As miserable of a season as it was, I hate the offseason more than the losing.
It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 13, 2008 6:11 PM CDT   0 recs

wjb1492
You took the words out of my mouth.  It is going to be a long off-season.

by chgobr on Apr 13, 2008 6:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I can already imagine us all,
meeting up here periodically for that Bulls fix.  The lottery, the draft, summer league....  Sigh.

But I also reserve the right to take this sentiment back by the end of this game!  I think I'll go look up the season high for an opponent's shooting percentage, just in preparation.

It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 13, 2008 6:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

looks like TT made it over two minutes before
getting into foul trouble
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 13, 2008 6:20 PM CDT   0 recs

Hughes can't make a basket.
His shot doesn't even look nice.  How long before Gordon comes in?  At least his shot looks nice even if it doesn't always go in.

by cranscape on Apr 13, 2008 6:22 PM CDT   0 recs

i feel sorry for gordon
even though his stats show that hes a betr shooter as bench player, he deserves to start.. i think thats part of the reason he declined 50 mil (though he still is worth more than 50), and we really need him to start, itll make him feel more appreciated.

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 13, 2008 6:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wear
my name proudly

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 13, 2008 6:25 PM CDT   0 recs

tyrus
was pulled after 2 fouls but Noce gets 2 and stays in?

by NormVanBeer on Apr 13, 2008 6:28 PM CDT   0 recs

And this surprises you?
I'll say this for Noc - the chucking is right on-line so far.
It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 13, 2008 6:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Has 13 points
already.  We need to lean on him a bit until others start making shots.  If they are playing to win.  Otherwise, sit Noc fast!  He is too hot to be playing on a tanking team.

by cranscape on Apr 13, 2008 6:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

does anyone else here hate Gray??
i feel like hes just a big white blob, standing there, passing the ball to the Magic [it wasnt deflected] and fouling... hes not athletic, hes slow, cant shoot... shall i continue?

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 13, 2008 6:40 PM CDT   0 recs

Was that Red saying something unflattering about
Aaron Gray?  Has this season worn even him and his Gray-adoration down?
It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 13, 2008 6:41 PM CDT   0 recs

Great defense by the Bulls so far
Orlando is only shooting 85% from the field and TT had 2 fouls in 2 minutes, but Noce is on fire.  Bumbo Boylan is going for the win to enhance his resume which insures a loss tonight

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 13, 2008 6:43 PM CDT   0 recs

{Smells like lottery balls}
Garbage time is our best time.  We play more of it than anyone else!
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 8 - Deciding whether next season is going to be similar to Kemp 95-96 or better.

by cubbybear on Apr 13, 2008 6:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

woohoo
I LOVE THE CHICAGO BULLShit

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 13, 2008 6:52 PM CDT   0 recs

Duhon, Aaron Gray...
thank God this game is on national TV!

by Freethefro on Apr 13, 2008 6:58 PM CDT   0 recs

technically,
unless u have nba league pass, then its not national [[local]].

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 13, 2008 7:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

stacy king, red kerr, is there someone else?
king = black guy

kerr = old santa clause guy

am i right?

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 13, 2008 7:02 PM CDT   0 recs

Considering how the game started out,
that was a pretty nice 2nd quarter there.
It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 13, 2008 7:15 PM CDT   0 recs

Is anybody else listening to KC?
The more I hear him, the less I think of his opinion.  He just said there are no all-stars on this team and then talked about how everybody but Deng would be available...
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 13, 2008 7:19 PM CDT   0 recs

KC is bush league, Bullshooter
If he actully does get inside information, he sure as hell hasn't shared much with the fans.  So until it is verified by Paxson, I will dismiss it as the mouthings of a nobody trying to act like he really is a somebody.

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 13, 2008 7:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I never really read anything...
...but disliked the opinions that were quoted here. When I first saw him on WGN a few weeks ago, it was instantaneous dislike. All I could think was, "No wonder sports newspaper journalism sucks if this is the 'best' one of the bigger newspapers in the country has to offer."
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 13, 2008 7:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

no Gordon
since the behind-the-back pass in the 2nd qtr...why is Boylan playing mister disciplinarian with 2.5 games left??

by NormVanBeer on Apr 13, 2008 7:55 PM CDT   0 recs

MVP
goes to..??
so the lakers won today against spurs. one game left, its against SAC, which they killed the last meeting.. that is 57-25 at the end of the season.
new orleans has two games left, against LAC and DAL, which theyre most likely gonna win both.. that also puts them at 57-25... the lakers would be better in their division, being 12-4, hornets division record would be 11-5... does that put LA at #1 for West?

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 13, 2008 7:58 PM CDT   0 recs

Lake Show
if they beat Sac, they're #1 and my vote would go to Kobe. if they lose and CP3 and Co. win both, he should get it.

by Illini15 on Apr 13, 2008 7:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Duhon, Thabo, Deng, Noc, Gray
Worst Boylan lineup to date, right?

by Illini15 on Apr 13, 2008 7:58 PM CDT   0 recs

no, not really
there was that game against SA where demetris nichols actually came in..

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 13, 2008 8:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

bull.com
will not make all my fantasies come true..  ;)

by ChiTownCritic on Apr 13, 2008 8:08 PM CDT   0 recs

This team isn't good
"Honestly. Love, James or Paul; who would you really rather have?" -Kemp

by NittanyBull on Apr 13, 2008 8:20 PM CDT   0 recs

Toronto
Good thing Toronto will have something to play for against us wednesday. Looks like we'll get the 8th pick now.
Deandre Jordan, the future hall of fame center for the bulls.

by armstrong2389 on Apr 13, 2008 8:25 PM CDT   0 recs

I was at the game...
It was hard to watch. . .I was hoping I'd see Ty dunk on Dwight Howard, but ehh just an overall typical bulls sucks game.  
I want to braid Noah's hair or at least give him a headband.

by AGBallinisaHabit on Apr 13, 2008 10:49 PM CDT   0 recs

Yes, TT looked bad, like the rest of them with
the exception of maybe Noce (-13), but why does BoilBrain limit him to only 22 minutes in a game where he might learn something playing against a telented front line? But I admit, it was a stroke of genius  giving Duhon 26 minutes to prep for the huge role they are planning for him next year.

This idiot is still trying to win the game and played Tyrus less than any starter...His (-11) sucked but no worse than 7 others.  Would it kill him to let Thomas get some more live game experience at this meaningless point in the season? Was he afraid Thomas would foul out or was he back to his old tricks of punishing him for not executing the game plan to perfection?

If Gray is going to be our backup next year, why can't he earn some growing pains against a great center for more than 10 minutes?  The Bulls had nothing to lose by losing and I can't wait for them to lose this pathetic coaching staff.

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 13, 2008 11:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

at least Hughes was benched
but yeah, I have absolutely no idea why Duhon played that much. it goes against any sane logic.

by Illini15 on Apr 13, 2008 11:59 PM CDT   0 recs

It's hard to believe
Boylan is still using substitution powers to discipline his players at this point in the season.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2008 8:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

just like I said earlier
after BG made that behind-the-back pass, he wasn't seen until the start of the 4th.  It wasn't like they were making a comeback in the 3rd, so there was no logical excuse.  What is the point of pulling and yanking players NOW?

I'll be so glad when this season is over with so this idiot Boylan can be gone.

by NormVanBeer on Apr 14, 2008 8:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh how I hate watching Duhon
That was brutal. A guy who can't shoot in a half-court offense that moves the ball around until someone gets an open shot doesn't fit, and he's even more worthless with Noah, Thomas, and Sefolosha handling the ball in transition. And Duhon opened up some 2 guard time for Hinrich!

Last night featured some classic head-on-a-swivel-cuz-Noc-lost-his-man defense as well.

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 14, 2008 8:05 AM CDT   0 recs

Duhon doesn't look for a shot
When BG plays point he initiates the offense and then is curling around screens looking to move against the ball flow direction to get into position to take a pass for an open shot.  When Duhon initiates he curls off and isn't looking to be in a position for a shot.  He merely gets into a position to catch a pass and feed it back around the perimeter.  Your guards must be able to shoot the basketball whenever it touches their hands for a set shot.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2008 8:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Which is why
he tees me off like nobody else on this squad.  How can you reach this stage in your career and not understand the part of playing point that burning a sagging defender plays?  You've got to be dangerous at all times out there.  

by California Al on Apr 14, 2008 8:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs