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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Tyrus = Dan Roundfield ?

Tyrus Thomas is a pretty unique player in the league.  He came in as a shotblocker and garbage-man extraordinaire with tenacity, energy, rebounding effort and lots of intangibles.  He came in also as a 19 year old.  His comparisons that I've heard have been Shawn Kemp, Stromile Swift and a few others.  Out of curiousity, I looked on databasebasketball, the site that used to be basketball-reference.com.  Their number one career similarity comparison was a player who played one year in the ABA, then the rest in the NBA.

His name was Dan Roundfield, aka Dr. Rounds.  I've never heard of him, but maybe someone on BAB has.  He was 6'8" 205lbs, and played 11 seasons in both leagues, averaging 15ppg and 10rpg over his career.

He entered the league at about 22, and Tyrus is not yet 22, so obviously it's not a perfect comparison, though certainly preparation for the NBA can be more accelerated than it used to be.  But the more I think about it, the more I realize that we're really expecting a lot from Tyrus in such a short period of time.

In fact, Mr. Roundfield had a very similar rookie campaign to the one that Tyrus is in right now.  This makes me think that a player like Tyrus, while certainly his per-minute contributions are positive, might benefit from a gradual transition, but truthfully only depends on the minutes given.  Boylan is quite the dumbie, and Tyrus should be playing more, mostly because the success he is having on a limited basis seems to be consistent, even with more minutes.

Mr. Roundfield's career, when used as a comparison, bears this out quite nicely.  After a rookie campaign of:
     - 11.4mpg  5.1ppg 3.9rpg
Tyrus's rookie campaign:
     - 13.2mpg 5.2ppg 3.7rpg

Mr. Roundfield's first year EFF:
     - 6.27 in 11.4mpg (22.00 EFF/40mpg)
For reference, Tyrus's EFF last year:
     - 6.77 in 13.2mpg (20.30 EFF/40mpg)

Mr. Roundfield's minutes increased in the NBA next year to:
     - 27mpg 14ppg 8rpg

for the next several years, until he was 28 he maintained or improved EFF(not a per-minute measure) every year:
     - 19.02  19.90  21.25  21.26  22.84  23.20
minutes:
     - 20.7   30.7   31.7   32.0   33.8   36.5
for 40 minute averages of:
     - 36.75  25.92  26.82  26.58  27.02  25.42

His second year performance was quite remarkable(Consider that Jordan's highest EFF/40mpg was <37), but that might suggest that he was unscouted in the NBA, or played with better teammates, or another reason.  After that season, he was very consistent and pretty impressive.

Skill-wise, I'm unaware of the similarities, but the statistics seem to suggest that if Tyrus gets more minutes, and develops like Mr. Roundfield did(big IF), that he won't be a superstar(Though he was a 3-time All-Star), but will be a solid rebounder who can score a little.    In fact, Roundfield was pretty impressive to Moses Malone, and should be considered one of the better second round picks, considering his 3 AS appearances(Link to Wikipedia Article.

Excerpt:

"Roundfield earned a reputation as a strong rebounder and tenacious defender, and during his career he was named to five NBA All-Defensive teams and three All-Star teams."

Sounds good to me!

Pat on the back for Tyrus:
Tyrus has improved his skill-set and confidence(though Boylan has likely ruined the latter).  He took over a game or two, and developed a vastly improved jump shot over the offseason.  I think that next year, with a new coach and increased familiarity and security(starting job, too) with his frontcourt teammate, he will flourish.  

Given that the offseason has started without a Boston Massacre III, I started thinking ahead already.  From my perspective, the biggest upside is the frontcourt, and the biggest liability is the contracts of the frontcourt, though Kirk has been impressive lately, and Gordon could get a favorable sign-and-trade in the offseason.  If anyone has any info on the player I used as a comparison, I'd love to learn more about how they compare, skill-wise.

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Hopefully, Thomas will be fine.
Rightly or wrongly, he was given the starting job to start the season (rightly). WRONGLY, that was taken from him. He had one outstanding game, one good game and three games from average to below-average. Scott Skiles shit his pants, and since he wasn't yet ready to bench either captain, the leader of the pack or Mr. Offense, he replaced the second-year player with the 74-year veteran. I have very little doubt that had Hinrich, Gordon, Deng and Wallace all showed up to play at the beginning of the season, Thomas likely wouldn't have been yanked, and would probably be getting 25-30 mins/gm 10-13 ppg, and 8-10 rpg w/ steals, blocks, assists and all that.

But he's been an idiot lately. Dwyer blogged that out of seven halftime jumpshots, Thomas took 6 left-handed. If he truly has let the rest of this retarded Bulls season get to him, then it sucks that he had such a fragile ego, and he'll probably be done. But if a new coach can come in, get Thomas to trust him and actually teach him how to be an NBA player, and not just a Hustler McScrappystein, then I suppose the woes will be worth it.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 30, 2008 10:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Hustler McScrappystein!?
That sounds like a black jewish guy. :)

Anyway, your post is nothing but speculation, what a waste! :)

More seriously, I agree with most all of this. Tyrus wasn't exactly playing great, but he wasn't the guy I wanted to see benched at the start of the year.

But the way he's seemed to go into a shell since (exhibit A being the continual verbal beatdowns he received from KC Johnson and Sam Smith, B being Dwyer's comments, C being his senior ditch day, and D being Doug Thonus' Bullsbeat dish on him. ) is a major issue.  Anyone who looks at all that and doesn't think he's got issues is, imo, deluding themselves.

Beyond that, I'd agree that hopefully he'd be fine, but given all the evidence there, I think it's unlikely things are going to work out well for him here.  Which sucks.

by Sports2 on Mar 30, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

they're issues that a new coach could fix
and an organization that actually invested in their players' successes instead of sabotoging them.

I'm not content with them pulling another Chandler and saying 'well, it just wasn't working out here'. Why not? The Chicago Bulls: where 'Larry Hughes working out here' happens?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2008 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Nothing but speculation"???
What? The playing time part? I guess I can't read minds, but unless Thomas completely went ridiculous (possible, but I'm sure Sam would have pointed it out to us), the only reason he was benched is because Skiles "had to do something".

As for playing time, I'm sure you'll find that the min. he plays when he starts are right in line with what I said. Pts and rebs are also pretty close to 75% of his per36 stats (27 mins of 36).

So yeah, it is speculation, but to completely dismiss as no worth is a little disingenuous.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 31, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

for
someone who likes to dish it out, you sure are sensitive... and apparently unable to take a light-hearted ribbing.

by leeac on Mar 31, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

that sounds
like about 85% of the people here

by NormVanBeer on Apr 1, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Explain the mechanics of fixing it?
If you're arguing that the organization sabotaged Tyrus, or at least stood by while two coaches have screwed him up, why do you think the same organization is suddenly going to start fixing things?

I'm not saying I'm content with it, I'm saying it's what I expect to happen.  If the Pax had a better plan for dealing with Thomas, we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

by Sports2 on Mar 31, 2008 12:32 AM CDT reply actions  

good point
Hopefully Paxson realizes the success of Thomas is a pretty important case for keeping his job.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

also
despite 'reports', I'm not convinced that Thomas is at J.R. Smith level yet.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

One forever difference between
Tyrus and JR Smith is that while George Karl laughs at JR's defense, and has called him the worst defender in the league, nobody laughs at Thomas' defense. (I don't have a ref, but maybe others here remember the Karl response to his local critics pining for JR to be put in the starting lineup.)  

Assuming the old chestnut that defense is largely about desire and hustle, I'd say Thomas is in no danger of falling into the Green and Smith bin.

by alec on Mar 31, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

well
people could laugh at tyrus' offense, which is laughable sometimes, but thats more a matter of him being undeveloped in the offensive end.  bad defense in JR Smith's case is probably due to lack of effort , plain stupidity or  i dont know what.

by Sambossanova on Mar 31, 2008 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

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