Is Gerald Green worth a look?

There was some Gerald Green talk here

around the trading deadline. I tend to agree with you about adding athleticism. We basically have Thabo and TT, and Noah, maybe. Any way we can get more, I'm all for.

by alec on Mar 28, 2008 3:12 PM CDT reply actions

Why?

On the other hand, what good is more athleticism when you don't use it?

talkbulls.com

by balta1701 on Mar 28, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions

sure why he hasnt been brought in yet. We have nothing to loose and I can see him slashing hard to the hoop and dunking on people if givin the chance. Teach him to play some d and run a hand full of clearouts for him per game and i think he would give us another athletic player. I dont think Deng is very athletic (he's good) just not GG athletic. Again though it would come down to coaching and developing talent 2 things the Bulls dont have or do.

by Bulls4Ever on Mar 28, 2008 3:17 PM CDT reply actions

Does the current staff

give us any signs that they can teach anyone anything?

I don't know how a staff of do nothings can somehow do something with a project like Gerald Green.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 28, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions

RE: Does the current staf

BINGO!

by Jobu on Mar 28, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions

On the Money

Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.
Those that can't teach, coach the Bulls.

by Cannoli on Mar 29, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions

I can't wait until

Mo Sene gets cut.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 28, 2008 3:19 PM CDT reply actions

He needs a lot of work

On the bad Celtics teams he could get away with doing whatever he wanted. I figured the same would be in play in Minnesota, but as soon as he arrived you started to see him falling asleep every time he was on the floor. Be it turning his back on his defensive assignment or failing to box out the free throw shooter, it all started to come together to form one question. Is Gerald Green interested in professional basketball?

Houston cut him so fast it was astonishing. Maybe they just really really wanted to dump Kirk Snyder on anyone to get anything back, but the Rockets pretty much flipped Snyder for nothing.

If Chicago cannot get anywhere with Tyrus Thomas it's going to be a very similar situation with Gerald Green. He could be really cheap though. Minnesota never picked up the 4th year rookie option so Green is an unrestricted FA at this point.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 28, 2008 3:25 PM CDT reply actions

meh

Not even close. It's not a stretch to say Thomas doesn't have great value right now due to the Bulls' twist-in-the-wind player development strategy, but he has actually played well.

Green has just been terrible, except for his 76.3 PER in Houston. Those 4 minutes were golden. Plus he plays a position that's easy to fill with cheap-o athletic guys that can produce at the league average, and he's a year or two older than Thomas.

Chris Webber is still the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 28, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Thats

why i think we should bring him in. Maybe the Houston cut will straighten out his head and he will try harder. I love the fact that he's an UFA because i know we can get him pretty cheap. The article quotes his agent saying that he has 6 teams interested. Guess i'm not alone.. I like Mo Sene too but I dont think he's getting cut.

by Bulls4Ever on Mar 28, 2008 3:30 PM CDT reply actions

Somehow

I think the Mo Sene comment from Matt was a little bit tongue in cheek.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Mar 29, 2008 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions

If this kid wants to improve

then yes he is worth picking up. His jumper is unblockable and his speed is great. I think he's really had no character issues just got buried on the bench for no reason from the start in minnesota.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 28, 2008 5:59 PM CDT reply actions

Bulls have too many players already

There's no room for Green in the backcourt, and Deng and Nocioni take up all the minutes at the 3. I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on Green, but the Bulls already have problems with players bitching about not getting enough minutes.

by Big D on Mar 28, 2008 10:53 PM CDT reply actions

To Bulls4Ever for suggesting...

...that Green be an understudy for Deng....

First of all, if we can upgrade at the small forward position then lets do it. Let's make Deng and understudy for a STUD player if one becomes available. Like I've said time and time again, you don't build your team around Deng. Rather you use Deng as a piece when building around a true top option!

As for Green, I think someone touched on it earlier. He instantly makes us more athletic but the truth is we've already had this guy and we traded him before he even put on a Bulls uniform. His name is J.R. Smith. Here are the cumulative career stats for both players through 3 yrs:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=greenge01&y1=20 08&p2=smithjr01&y2=2008

Very similar.

Now I would take Green in a heartbeat. But I also wouldn't have moved Smith so readily. They are both 22 and have TREMENDOUS upside if coaching gets the best out of them. My personal opinion is that the Bulls didn't like these kinds of guys but in truth they could challenge what we have now (I venture to say the I'd rather have J.R. Smith on my wing now than anyone we have...actually I could see J.R. at the 2 and Thabo at the 3).

I just want a more talented and athletic "unit" on the court and I want them coached up so that we don't have to lean on the outwork everyone mantra. Working hard to win is a given, but when the best thing people can say is your team "outworks" everyone that usually means you lack talent.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 29, 2008 9:39 AM CDT reply actions

Green should

go abroad for a while to develop and hone his skills, along the lines of a Stephen Jackson did, or maybe Anthony Parker.

This will also get him out of the "I'm the man" bullshit that high NBA Draft picks who are young and athletic start to feel (see Tyrus Thomas). Being abroad, he'll be humbled and will have to have a good attitude simply to get by. This is the kind of thing that probably won't happen while he's in the league.

But every single one of the 30 NBA teams is desperate to win, so Green will probably never go to Europe. Which is really too bad for Green.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 29, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions

BULLHOCKEY!!!

This sounds like a great idea. Despite the success of several high school to the NBA players, this is why I'm in favor of them staying in school a while. So that they learn to be winners.

Tell me, besides Kobe, LeBron and Darryl Dawkins, which high school to the NBA players have even played in the NBA Finals? I don't know the answer to that and I'm curious to know. There was talk on the radio the other day about how drafting players straight out of high school is better than drafting a final four MVP because since the 90s there haven't been many successfull final four MVPs (exception being Carmelo and Rip Hamilton for example).

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 29, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions

It's not about developing into winners.

It's solely about development of basketball skills. Trying to keep the kids in college is only Stern and the NBA owners wanting to further take advantage of a free minor league system instead of investing further in their own. The NFL is even more guilty of the same. I'm dumbfounded by the NBA's refusal to take greater advantage of the NBADL to help hone the skills of raw talent like Green. By keeping prospects in their own developmental league, they would have greater control over teaching methods and time spent practicing. As Hollinger alluded to in his blog about the future of international ball, the NCAA doesn't even allow for enough practice time.

As to other straight to the NBA players who made the Finals: Moses Malone, Shawn Kemp (he only attended a Community College), Jonathan Bender, Al Harrington, Dorrell Wright, Jackie Bulter. I don't think this really proves anything either way. I don't care if the guy is straight from high school or a Final 4 MVP or a Wooden Award winner. Just let him be the best available player. Was made curious by your question so decided to research it myself.

by snley on Mar 29, 2008 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Great Post!

I'm conflicted in regards to the part about the NBA being able to coach up players though. I think that naturally college coaches are better teachers, but college coaches do a good job getting players ready to play their style of play and not necessarily NBA basketball (i.e. a lot of Duke players). Whereas the NBDL would definitely put more emphasis on being ready to play in the NBA. So I think i'm leaning your way on that one. If there was a TRUE minor league in place though like baseball has then I'd definitely be with you 100%!!!

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 30, 2008 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions

BRush

Why not just draft Brandon Rush. He would be on rookie contract for 4 years so would be cheaper bench player. He seems to fit into Bulls, plays good defense, is athletic, can run, has height to guard SGs, and can shoot.

Would mean you could get rid of one or both of BG / Hughes and use that salary elsewhere. Seems to me he has a lot of potential and since he would be so much less expensive then Gordon he would be better value. His stats aren't as great in college because Kansas is loaded and they play game where everybody scores. Of course the Bulls would need to sign and trade Gordon for something

by NY Chicago Fan on Mar 29, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions

I know I'll get bashed on this :)

But I think if the Bulls continue to pay just good but not great players (ie Kirk, BG, Deng, Hughes, Gooden, Noc) they will be in playoff mix next year but not really contenders. If they are going to stay under salary cap and still contend for title they have to have more role players making less money or rookie contract guys getting playing time and then few real leaders making the money and being the stars of the team.

It is not that I hate BG or think Kirk is superstar, but SG is easier to replace cheaply and Bulls currently have both BG and Hughes being paid decent $ to play SG and neither one is great. Can't have bench players making this much money and stay undercap.

And also can't waste picks and stay contenders long term so need to utilize Thomas, Thabo, Noah and 08 pick

by NY Chicago Fan on Mar 29, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions

To hell with the playoff mix!!

We want to be contenders. We were in the playoff mix and having been such a fringe team is killing us now. We have plummeted back to earth. I want it all. I wanna challenge for a championship. We've been in the playoff mix for 2 or 3 years. It was time to take a step forward, but instead we've taken a step back unfortunately.

I understand what you mean though. Being in the playoff mix beats this mess we went through this year. But lets set our hopes higher. Shoot for the stars and if we miss at least we hit the moon and get somewhere instead of stayin grounded.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 29, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions

getting Green

would be a waste of time...just like reading this diary was

by NormVanBeer on Mar 29, 2008 5:48 PM CDT reply actions

2nd Tier SF

I think we can get Green. It's a sure thing that he'd be less of a burden on the cap compared to Nocioni. Not saying that Noc's playing badly, he just ain't worth his 7.5 million now.

We get an awesome dunker, who was making a lot of headway with Boston before the Garnett trade, to play behind Deng. If Deng wants WAY too much money, he'd be good enough to start or play behind Noc. That might not be such a bad thing as we'd see a heckuva lot less Noc on the PF position.

God help me I'll scream the next time I see a small line up... especially with Noc as a make-shift centre

醉生梦死

by blackmage71 on Mar 30, 2008 9:20 AM CDT reply actions

Nocioni is like a million times better than Green

Seriously, where is the Green positivity coming from? He's been horrible. His production has declined from below average to awful since his 374 minute rookie year, and his usage has gone up. The comment comparing Green and J.R. Smith was an insult to J.R. Smith.

Chris Webber is still the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 30, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions

There's only one reason

to like Green, and that's his athleticism. If that athleticism can be had for cheap it's worth taking a chance on.

It's not worth getting tied into a long-term deal for, but it is worth bringing in and seeing if you can add some basketball skills to the guy...but again, only for the right (small) price.

by alec on Mar 30, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions

athleticism on the perimeter can be had for cheap

That's why Green is unemployed. The Bulls don't need a young guy who can't play at all when they can't even get their young guys who can on the court.

The Bulls already have a cheap, athletic guy tearing up the D-League. Would you rather the Bulls re-up a guy doing what he's supposed to in a minor league, or take a chance on a player who didn't do anything but suck for 2515 NBA minutes? I realize the answer can be "both," but there's enough youth on the team already. Cedric Simmons might actually make 3 pointers too.

Chris Webber is still the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 30, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions

not Simmons

Nichols is the shooter. Whatever. I doubt the Bulls keep any of the fringe guys not guaranteed for next season, but Brown might be worth a second look.

Chris Webber is still the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 30, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Emphasis on the "low" of low post

Seeing as Webber is as earthbound as Shawn Kemp or Mt. Ranier.

BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 5 - Worrying that he's never going to have a J like Reggie Miller's, only Oscar Robertson's.

by cubbybear on Mar 30, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions

Green has exponential athleticism

A lot of NBA players are athletic, and as you say, athleticism on the perimeter is an unremarkable commodity.

However, Green was both the high school and NBA slam dunk champ. He has a 48" vertical. This is not unremarkable athleticism. He's world class.

IMO, the red flag is that he didn't start playing basketball until he was a sophomore in high school. So he's going to be way behind, maybe uncatchupably behind, other players his age.

I'd like to see the Bulls find a place for him on the payroll.

by alec on Mar 30, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions

the red flag is that he stinks.

(brown flag?)

friggin alec...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions

Laziness

Gerald Green's only problem is laziness. Even Paul Pierce called him out on it last month. Every team would want to sign Green right away if he showed any interest in workinging at his game. Instead, Green prefers to just get by on his natural gifts. He has out of this world athleticism, but has no interest in further developing his body or skills.

Comparing Green to JR Smith is unfair to Green. Smith has clashed with every coach he's played for(although to his credit he is actually trying to play defense lately). Green is not a malcontent, just lazy. I think a better comparison is Tim Thomas, but Thomas is 6'10" with a NBA body so there will always be a GM stupid enough to sign him.

by shoryuken on Mar 30, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Paul Pierce's take on Gerald Green

"I think he has the talent to definitely be in the NBA, but I just think he has to develop a better work ethic," Pierce said. "I think the coaches he's played for say that's the one knock on him. He knows how talented he is and how good he can be, but it's a matter of wanting to work at it every day. If he ever gets that mind-set, he wouldn't have to worry about being cut and who he's going to play for next.

"I tried to take him under my wing," Pierce said. "I tried to work with him. There were days when I'd come in and play some one-on-one with him and show him some stuff that I do to get better. But you've got to have the work ethic. You've got to want to do it.

"I think that's what helped me as a young player. I wanted to be in the gym. It wasn't because I have a veteran telling me to. What are you going to do in the summertime when you don't want to be there? That's the NBA. It's all about the grind. If you're not willing to do it, there's somebody else who's hungrier and younger and just as talented, and they're going to take your job."

by shoryuken on Mar 30, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Great find

That should pretty much end the discussion about Gerald Green.

Unfortunately it also seems like a starting point for a discussion about Tyrus Thomas, as you also point out. Where I disagree with you is on Tyrus having a much different body than Green.

Pre-draft, Green measured 6'6" in bare feet and 192. That's a little skinny, but certainly not for an 18 year old kid who was expected to play the 2 and 3 spots. Out on the perimeter, that's going to be a problem, but probably a workable one.

Pre-draft, Tyrus measured 6'7.25" and 217lbs. Again, that's not unheard of, but unlike Green, we're expecting Thomas to play the 4 (or even 5 in terms of role). So relative to the guys he's likely to be matched up against, Tyrus probably came into the league even more at a physical disadvantage than Green, because he's going to be going up against 6'10 250lb men.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 30, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Um... Freudian-read slip???

He said Tim Thomas, not Tyrus. Tim is lazy, Tyrus isn't, as evidenced by the fact that he has a okay jump shot this year. Don't let your want of Tyrus's failure keep you from accurately reading.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 30, 2008 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions

not to mention

conveniently ignoring the measurements like reach and wingspan that make Thomas more or less the equal of 7 footers.

Chris Webber is still the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 30, 2008 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Emphasis on the less.

I'm not ignoring the measurements like reach and wingspan. They're simply not germane to the point.

Green has fine wingspan and reach for his positions. His twigginess is mitigated by the fact he's playing against smaller guys further from the basket.

Thomas has fine, even good wingspan and reach for his positions. But his twigginess is exacerbated by the fact he's playing against bigger guys closer to the basket.

As far as the other stuff (sans the nonsensical race baiting "thinking like a black guy" stuff), the point is the observations made by others about Tyrus are exactly the same sort of observations made by others about Gerald Green. Lazy in practice, lazy after practice, lazy in games. Head up ass.

Thinking about possible reasons why he's got his head up his ass, I guess, makes you unhappy, but the operative point is that he's got his head up his ass. Since you think trying to figure out the reasons for this are beneath you, I suggest you just scroll on by and take your used up, talk like a black person crap with you.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 30, 2008 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions

your Dr. Phil impression would be more useful

if they had similar production when they did play. Green's proven to be way way worse than Tyrus, and Tyrus is undoubtedly better on defense as well.

This diary is amongst the worst ever, a ridiculous attempt to 'think outside the box' in which the box is reason and sense. Shame on all of you. Gerald Green sucks.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2008 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions

How?

The point I was making is pretty independent of how much better or worse Tyrus is than Green.

Sure, Tyrus is a much better player than Green, who but he appears to have a similarly dumbass attitude that's threatening to derail his promising talent career. That seems to be the important point to me. In fact, saying "yeah, but Tyrus is better than Green" is what doesn't seem useful to me. Sure, he's better, but he's not so much better that he couldn't be out on the street pretty quickly.

But yeah, I can see how the stunningly similar statements of guys about Green's attitude and about Tyrus' attitude are made less useful by his stellar achievements on the basketball court.

Again, those achievements are what, exactly? Being better than Gerald Green? That's really not saying much. Like you said, Gerald Green sucks. He sucks ass. Tyrus is better. But he's not so much better that he's forced his way on the court, now is he? No, he's a skinny PF who's shooting 43%, averaging less minutes than he did as a rookie, and, exhibiting very similar attitude problems to the ones that have Gerald Green sitting at home wondering what the hell happened.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 30, 2008 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions

shameful.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 30, 2008 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions

They've said Tyrus isn't working.

Not lazy. Show me someone who shoots 500 jumpers a day, and you won't be showing me someone lazy. No one called Tyrus lazy before mid-season. And I don't know if anyone is really calling him that now. Except for you and Doug's source. You simply can't say, without a huge dose of bias, that Tyrus Thomas is lazy.

It's an act of defiance. Stupid, sure, but not lazy.

Oh, and using his minutes as an argument when minutes are controlled by one of the most retarded coaching staffs in recent memory, that's well... retarded.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 4, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions

I was hoping you'd keep the crap to yourself

I really don't care about your personal window seat into Thomas' soul, but the reports from it are insulting to everyone. For more reasons than the grammatically incorrect faux-tation, but ignoring the thought that it might be out of order doesn't make it right. I'm done addressing it, and your wacky mission to find insight in every innocuous quote imaginable.

Chris Webber is still the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 31, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions

LOL

I always knew I wasn't as smart as you, but clearly I underestimated by how much. And it's not just stats and speculation you police with amazing moral uprighty-ness, but grammar and and some kind of pseudo-racist babble nonsense as well. It's good to see you branching out. :)

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 31, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Actually,

there was a lot of commenting about the height, as compared to the standing reach and wingspan, of Elton Brand when the Bulls drafted him.

Commentators were basically saying that if the post player has the reach of someone who is a 7 footer, then he has the physical stature to play down there. Their point was, maybe a guy has a short neck--how should that matter, if he can go snag boards above the rim or block the shots of 7 footers?

Things like standing reach and wingspan do indeed matter a great deal at all positions.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 3, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Oops

That being said, I'll stick by my comparison of Ty Thomas and Gerald Green.

We've had reports of damn near everyone associated with the guy in a professional capacity - coaches, teammates, managers, reporters - saying he's not been putting in the work he should.

If he's actually busting his ass to get better, he must be going about it in the strangest way known to man, because he's somehow been working so hard he's got everyone convinced he's a lazy headcase.

I don't actually want him to fail, and I think there's even a case to be made that it's understandable (if not excusable) how a guy like him ends up mailing it in. He's clearly been jerked around by the Bulls, and I think that's led to him saying to himself "screw it, it don't matter anyway".

Which sucks, and it sucks that the Bulls, who should have dealt with him better, contributed to him getting to that point. But ultimately the Bulls are still the Bulls, and someone will be out there playing for them in a couple years and I'll be cheering for them. Tyrus, on the other hand, could wind up sitting at home on his ass like Gerald Green if he doesn't get it together.

While the Bulls can contribute to that one way or another, I think it's ultimately in Tyrus' court.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 30, 2008 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions

too bad speculation and mind reading

aren't worth the price of my BaB account. Does Tyrus Thomas' inner dialogue contain poor grammar, or do you just do a totally not charming 'black guy' impression?

An objective comparison is in Thomas' favor, and it's not even close.

Chris Webber is still the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 30, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions

a totally not charming 'black guy' impression?

Whoa.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 30, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions

um

Why don't the Bulls also get Harold Miner and JR Rider? They were awesome at dunking the ball.

Haven't we seen enough of Gerald Green to know he sucks? The Bulls already have their "unlimited upside" guy in Thomas (and for those people who ride his jock, Deng). He was flat out cut by an NBA team (his third in 8 months!) and is currently unemployed. That's all I need to know about this loser. Paul Pierce's comments were the icing in the cake.

[/end of topic]

by Stay Chisel on Mar 30, 2008 6:30 PM CDT reply actions

Spud can play the point

Look at those hops!

BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 5 - Worrying that he's never going to have a J like Reggie Miller's, only Oscar Robertson's.

by cubbybear on Mar 30, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Are people serious?

Gerald Green? This team had JR Smith and they traded him, why would they sign an even lazier waste of talent? He was on 2 horrible lottery teams where he could have actually taken the time to develop his game and gotten notice from a real squad, he didn't do it. Why not bring in James White too?