Possible List for a New Coach
by BarryLird on Mar 24, 2008 10:23 AM CDT
61 comments
Jay Mariotti in Today's Chicago Sun-Times
"Assuming he even wants to return -- and I still wouldn't be shocked if he walked away after calling this the worst year of his basketball life -- Paxson also better start contacting the names of his ``short list'' of possible coaches. But who would want to coach this team? Larry Brown has shown interest through intermediaries, yet even if he took a huge cut from his astronomical rate of pay, wouldn't they also rebel against him? Jeff Van Gundy still makes the most sense, but would he want to deal with these headaches when it's clear the Celtics will rule the East for a few years? The latest interesting name is Larry Bird, who is being pushed out of an executive chair in Indiana and might want to return to coaching, an area in which he fared better (remember when he coached the Pacers to within a few minutes of a Game7 win over the Bulls in the 1998 playoffs?) Then there's Mike Krzyzewski, Chicago's very own, who might be getting sick of smallish, undertalented teams and early-round NCAA tournament losses at Duke. If you're Paxson, don't you at least put in a call to Coach K? Isn't Krzyzewski poised to be a national hero if he coaches a re-energized Olympic hoops movement to a gold medal in Beijing? Wouldn't the Bulls be smart to capitalize on his post-China cachet? Just a thought. From the Detroit News Carlisle to Chicago? "It looks like former Pistons and Pacers coach Rick Carlisle might be coming back to the Central Division. Reports across the league Sunday place him as the leading candidate to replace Jim Boylan once the Bulls get through this season from hell. It would be a great choice, by the way. Carlisle is a quieter, less outwardly abrasive version of Scott Skiles. He will impose the same structure and demand the same discipline that worked in Chicago for Skiles, without the acrimony. And without question, Carlisle's system works in the Eastern Conference. But you know he had to squirm when he saw what happened to the Bulls on Saturday. In the first half of yet another Bulls loss, Andres Nocioni blew up at Boylan, cursed him on the bench during the game, and was sent to the locker room. He never came back." Even though Mariotti is a joke, is there any validity to his statements? Personally, Coach K will never leave Duke and would Larry Bird really try to coach the Bulls? How about Carlisle? He seem like a good pick to me.Also, any chance that Paxson calls it quits?
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Actually, when Bird coached
Yet the appeal of one of the all-time greats leading the team from the sidelines is really appealing--Bird would instantly inspire respect from his players, especially since Carlisle was booted in Indy and Detroit.
If only the Bulls could hire Bird as head coach and Carlisle as an assistant. That would be ideal.
But who knows if that's even a possibility, as Carlisle has become head coaching material in his own right. Even if his ego would allow for it, his competitive record as head coach may have priced him out of consideration for this kind of scenario.
Also, Bird may not even want Carlisle to be his assistant coach.
by bullhockey on Mar 24, 2008 11:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Coach K
Krzszchwesxsski's experiece with the Olympics and handling all those egos, plus his undisputed regal reputation and name recognition would definitely bring the respectability back to the Bulls that Boylan has completely lost. I think it would revitalize the team.
by kig on Mar 24, 2008 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
or we (meaning most of us)
by hscs on Mar 24, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never been a Duke fan
I think throwing money at him would be much less laughable than throwing it at some has-been recycled NBA coach like Carlisle or Brown, who are both ridiculously overrated and are out of a job for a reason
by kig on Mar 24, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did I say Carlisle or Brown were better ideas?
by hscs on Mar 24, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how about getting constantly outcoached
I mean, he's good at swooning 16 year olds, which I wish I was better at myself. Uh...back when, of course.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 24, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess this quote
"[Coach K] is everything I thought he would be and more. I have been excited and waiting for this opportunity for a long time. Playing for him now, you realize why he is such a great coach. He communicates extremely well with his players. He's very intense and has a passion for what he does and he has a great sense of humor."
-- Kobe Bryant
He definitely hasn't had a good run the past two years (I blame it on bad big-man recruiting), but I really think the whole 'college coach can't make it in the nba' is total groupthink. The talent of a coach is completely independent of his "peers". Just cuz Pitino and Floyd and Montgomery sucked does not mean he will. And please don't forget Dick Motta, Jack Ramsay, Gregg Popovich, Bill Fitch, Chuck Daley,etc - they all seemed to do just fine.
by kig on Mar 24, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Popovich was an NBA assistant first
by Big D on Mar 24, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's my point
I have to say that I'm arguing for arguments sake now, but I really do think that hiring K over some other nba has-been would be a good thing. Name for me the last nba merry-go-round coach who has built up a championship team? I might be mistaken, but the last 30 some odd years it's been a guy who has built a culture and not struck out 5 other times with other teams (except for larry brown and, to some extent, riley with the heat).
by kig on Mar 24, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did coach the Olympic team
You're presenting a false choice anyways. Retreads and college coaches aren't the only two options. I'd rather see the Bulls hire an up-and-coming assistant, like Boston's Tom Thibodeau. They actually have experience on the NBA level, and you don't have to pay them big money because they have a big name like you do with college coaches.
by Big D on Mar 24, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not trying to force a false choice
I agree that Thibodeau or another good assistant would be positive, but I think you have to worry about these lame-ass players not respecting the guy if he doesn't have credentials coming in.
by kig on Mar 24, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or good credit
by hscs on Mar 24, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coach K has no NBA
by sue369 on Mar 24, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lame-ass players?
Give them a coach who makes them better players and a better team, and I'm sure they'll all come around. Maybe.
by tyger1147 on Mar 24, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
on the plus side
by Seth on Mar 25, 2008 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and really...
by hscs on Mar 24, 2008 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Forget about Coach K
by Big D on Mar 24, 2008 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree.
by 1958ChiTown on Mar 24, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coach K would be a disaster
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 24, 2008 12:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"a pretty effective offense"
by hscs on Mar 24, 2008 12:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What's Mariotti smoking?
by upther on Mar 24, 2008 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He almost went to LA 3 years ago
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 24, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where to start
Yuck.
That being said, I do wonder if this isn't want Paxson wants. There's never been a really definitive statement about what got Skiles fired besides sucky play and I still wonder if it isn't something like:
Mid to late Summer:
Skiles: You know, Deng and Gordon are going to be trouble if you don't get them signed. And if you don't get us someone who can play up front, we're screwed too.
Pax: I'll make these guys an offer, but they're pros, they'll play right no matter what. And of course they wouldn't be jealous of each other.
And don't you worry about up front. My main Tyrus is taking 700 jumpers a day.
Skiles: Your man Tyrus couldn't find his ass with both hands.
Pax: Are you making excuses? Here, I'll sign Joe Smith too.
Fast forward to early this season:
Skiles: I told you so.
Pax: Your rotations are really screwy. How come you benched Tyrus?
Skiles: I like my PFs to shoot a touch over 40%.
Pax: You're not playing Noah either.
Skiles: Who's that?
Pax: You know, the kid with the hair?
Skiles: You mean that spaz that shows up late all the time? I thought he was part of the community outreach program.
Pax: And I've been meaning to talk to you about this- Ben Gordon's not a starter. Get back to making him a sixth man. He's not tall enough to start.
Skiles: So you want me to bench Gordon? You do realize he's been responsible for a huge amount of our success.
Pax: Only when he comes off the bench.
Skiles: Actually, that's not the case.
Pax: But he's so much better of the bench! He matches up better against backups.
Skiles: Most players do. Don't you think other team's starters will match up better against whatever backup you want me to promote though?
Pax: Are you talking back to me?
Skiles: While we're on the subject, that Joe Smith guy is a waif who doesn't rebound or defend as well as PJ Brown did. And Wallace hasn't jumped in two months. I think he realizes we're screwed.
Pax: You just have to get Wallace involved, have him come out of the post set a screen in the fourth quarter.
Skiles: So if I get fired I still get paid, eh?
...........
by Sports2 on Mar 24, 2008 1:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Heh
by piccolomair on Mar 24, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol... Nice! :)
- was the Bulls' major free agent prize for this era,
- disrupted the team and then
- got the coach fired, because it's easier to replace a coach than players,
- all for naught as he got traded away anyway.
And it really, really sucks that one of the main reasons that the Bulls can't be better without Wallace is that at key points in the game Boylan plays Larry Hughes, who inevitably turns the ball over at a crucial stretch of the 4th quarter, just when the other team is making its run.
by bullhockey on Mar 24, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thinking philosophies instead of names
Instead of throwing out names, Paxson needs to clearly identify the style he wants them to play. If they are to be a walk it up, lock down, defensive oriented team, then he's going to need to find (and, in Thabo's case, actually play) players who can stop penetration and defend the rim. The slow down game that Carlisle/Van Gundy would run would necessitate a post up player who scores and passes primarily out of the post (not Drew Gooden, who prefers to face up way more than post up).
If he is going to shift gears and fashion this team in a more up tempo manner with some Princeton principles (my preference), he's going to need to find a pass-first, penetrating point guard to complement the players on the roster who can finish in transition (Luol, TT, Thabo).
It's a bit of a 'chicken or the egg' scenario, but I'd be interested in debating the type of team we want to watch going forward, just so that we can stop thinking about the current pile of crap we've been exposed to for the past five months.
by Gene Banks on Mar 24, 2008 4:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree
The couple of named coaches out there...Van Gundy, Carlisle, Brown...yeah, they might be good coaches, but I just don't see any of them except maybe Carlisle (no idea how beat up he is after his time in the Indiana disaster) being able to really step up and take this team to the next level. We've had one good coach in Skiles but the team imploded under him. A good coach might not be all we need. I actually would like to see Pax do some scouring of assistants for other teams and see if there's a fresh face or voice out there that might be able to bring something unique to this group, the way D'Antoni brought a new style of play to the Suns.
by balta1701 on Mar 24, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry Reinsdorf named the principles
So I think to a large extent it's not Paxson's call, or at least I hope Reinsdorf hired him after making sure he was also wedded to this philosophy.
by Sports2 on Mar 24, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Reinsdorf define his terms?
There appears to be an unstated amount of discretion implicit in Reinsdorf's terms. Would he prefer a dribble/drive, drive and kick-type offense prefered by Skiles (which would require a pass-first PG that can penetrate) or a triangle-type offense that relies on players who can be equal parts passers / creators.
Does he want the defense to force turnovers and intiate the offense, or does he want a more fundamentally sound position-based defense that protects the rim and the boards?
How Paxson ultimately defines these parameters should go a long way in determining who the coach will be and which players to keep/trade.
by Gene Banks on Mar 24, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it's hard to tell
There's this frightening report from Mitch Lawrence:
Rick Carlisle's chummy relationship with Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf apparently has put him at the top of the list of candidates to succeed interim coach Jim Boylan. But if Nets exec Kiki Vandeweghe crosses the Hudson to take over the Knicks, he has Carlisle at the top of his list of coaching prospects.
Maybe that's what he means. :(
by Sports2 on Mar 24, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of the available retreads
My worry with him is the same as a lot of people's though...the Indiana disaster. I really don't know how much of that was Artest, O'Neal, and so on...but that team totally blew up under Carlisle...and at some point you do have to wonder how he'll handle the debacle the Bulls have become if he couldn't control that situation.
That said, he's in a position where he might be a solid coach who has a chance to redeem himself, which is something I could go for. I'd still like to try some fresh blood, but if they think Carlisle is a better option, I could give that a try.
by balta1701 on Mar 24, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Since he's currently doing quite well where he's at, he has a lot of power to negotiate his terms of service, so it's implicit that mgt would have total buy-in to get him to move.
From watching Memphis more closely since seeing the SI article I linked to in the Calipari thread, it looks like that is a player's system. It appears that at all times, either you're the ballhandler and attacking the basket, or simultaneously creating space for the ballhandler and positioning yourself to attack if his attack is stymied. The motto of dribble-drive is "we like threes, but we love layups".
From Calipari's vantage point, he has to have pondered greatly how suitable it is to the NBA game. He'd have to feel very good about how it would play out to leave Memphis. I think he has the experience to make an intelligent judgment on that issue.
His goal defensively is to lead the nation in steals. Philosophically, that is due to the fact that the offense is a quick strike machine, so playing a position-based defense would create a 70/30 imbalance in time of possession, yielding control of the flow to the opponent.
He has no illusions about the "system" or the organization winning games. It's all about having the horses, and the aggressive nature of the offense attracts players. He'd have to get Jerry/Pax commitment to bring in/retain the personnel he needs.
I have one great fear from Reinsdorf's mission statement. That could have a very ugly ulterior motive if interpreted a certain way: defensive players who do the little things well cost a lot less than the all-stars do. I've gotten a big kick out of Nellie's instant turnaround at GS, and if you look at the key players, they're the types who are usually available because of attitude/coachability issues. Who had Davis and Jackson listed among the league's best until Nellie went there?
Again, I'm no xs and os expert, but I think that certain styles turn the players loose to do what they like they to do (show up on ESPN a couple of times a week), and some styles ask them to stifle their individual agendas for the team's sake. It seems a lot easier to utilize their natural tendencies than it is to find the Tim Duncans of the world to build around. There would be so many positive implications from Calipari coming here, I'd be the most excited Bulls fan in the country if he turned out to be the choice.
by California Al on Mar 25, 2008 6:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
Here's probably how a guy like Reinsdorf looks at the choices.
- You can bring in a guy who can work with with the high paid long-term contracts you've got, and he'll play a system that minimizes their weaknesses and maximizes their strengths.
- you can bring in a more expensive guy who will demand his own system, and his system doesn't fit your current (and hard to move) players very well. You'll lose control, money and face a long-term project that might end up working if you have the patience for it.
by Sports2 on Mar 25, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but
If on the other hand they choose to go with opotion one, I'll be spending more time focused on other, more worthwhile teams.
by California Al on Mar 25, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which system best fits the current Bulls roster?
Because of the chaos taking place night after night on the court can anyone even identify what their philosophy is? Don't we need to identify what type of system best fits this group before a coach can be chosen?
by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 25, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He looks good too
by California Al on Mar 25, 2008 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vision Thing
Anyone but Boylan, even if it is a Homer Simpson clone.
by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 25, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
System
by BarryLird on Mar 25, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do too
by hlac on Mar 25, 2008 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hate to ask
by hscs on Mar 26, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't ask why
by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Triangle
I believe that Jim Cleamons' short and unpleasant stint as head coach in Dallas can attest to this. (But there are other examples, I'm sure.)
It's what makes me cynical about Phil Jackson's casting himself as the mastermind of the Bulls' 3peats. It's also what causes smirks when reminded of Krause's attempts to take all the credit. Yes, the organization and coaches did their jobs exceedingly well, but it just seems that without Jordan and sometimes Pippen turning broken plays into points, those championships are not won.
by bullhockey on Mar 28, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you could say that about
Jackson is a fantastic coach, I think the point you should make is that coaching isn't THAT important relative to great players. However, Phil even found a way to make Kwame Brown useful.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 28, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, true. But also, that
This would mean that the Bulls would be out of luck with that kind of a system, because they don't have the first required ingredient: they lack any great players (to rehash one of the major themes here).
But also, I seem to remember (again, from the Cleamons-Dallas debacle) that because Cleamons lacked great players, or at least great players who would buy in, the Triangle really made that team look horrible. So maybe it's not only a system that requires great players who buy in, but also a system that could magnify the weaknesses of a bad or mediocre team.
by bullhockey on Mar 28, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obvious Choice
by Cannoli on Mar 25, 2008 7:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute
by California Al on Mar 25, 2008 7:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Mark Price would be an intriguing candidate
by bullhockey on Mar 25, 2008 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Unlikely, but my picks
Bring back Skiles.
Hire Pippen. I thought the Reggie Theus hire by Sacramento was a cruel joke, but Theus has been a real surprise for a first time head coach.
by NBA Observer on Mar 25, 2008 3:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree with you about Theus
I hope he continues to do well.
I also think you might be right about Avery. Cuban is just dumb enough to fire him. If so, Paxson should be on the first thing that resembles a phone, making some calls.
by NormVanBeer on Mar 25, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem With Avery
by Gene Banks on Mar 25, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sadly this team needs it
If Avery gets canned I'd be up for that. Similarly with George Karl.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 25, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"joke" is the wrong word
A team in Vegas is so far away, as there is no arena there, and the Maloofs asked Stern to personally come mediate a negotiation for a new stadium in Sacramento. Add to that that Theus has been a surprising success in just his first year with a roster making moves and seeing plenty of injuries and the Kings appear poised to have yet another successful off season to transition for a run back to the playoffs.
I probably would have said the same things about Jerry Sloan. "He'll never be a good coach just because he played for the Bulls."
by NBA Observer on Mar 25, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Avery=micromanaging control freak
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 25, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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