Open Game Thread #69: Bulls vs. Indiana Pacers

by chgobr on Mar 22, 2008 7:34 AM CDT

The Bulls are 2-1 against the Pacers this season. The Pacers have won three straight and are 1/2 games ahead of the Bulls. Gooden and Sefolosha missed practice yesterday but hopefully will play. Hinrich hopes to play but is a game-time decision. The still present, but dwindling playoff hopes are painfully transitioning to summer improvement, look-forward-to-next-year season. Our lingering despair creates more Boylan bashing as well as new summer Bulls improvement strategies. Boylan bashing may not be necessary since he is dead man walking. The new coach name being thrown out is John Calipari. Indiana's version of Bull's coaching uncertainty is Walsh and Larry Bird uncertainty.

I will watch tonight's game trying to answer the following questions:

1.    What is our basketball identity going to be? I've posted my defensive vision thing. Others do not believe our players are made for a defensive shut-down team. With Skiles we were the NBA hustling defensive "we try harder" team. Under Boylan we are the offensively better, defensively poor, weak-willed, no-heart, best 4th quarter collapsing NBA team. What kind of team would we become with Calipari at helm?
2.    What should we do with Ben Gordon? I remain confused.
3.    Is Deng an all-star or an also-ran? Will he blossom into an NBA star or be an overpaid burden on our salary cap?
4.    Can a new coach convert Hughes into a defensive specialist? He is quick, likes to make steals, but can he be taught to play defense at a Bruce Bowen level?
5.    Will Thabo become an elite guard or should we trade him because we will never pay him?
6.    Is this year an aberration for Hinrich or did we make an error and grossly over-pay him? Should we consider trading him?
7.    Gooden looks like a legitimate inside presence. Next year is the last year of his contract. Would we resign him? If not should we trade him? What are we looking to get in a trade?

Enjoy - the game tonight can be viewed as a canvas for summer decision-making!

BLOGGING WITH THE ENEMY:
SBNation Indiana Pacer blog, Indycornrows.com

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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Comments

aren't we

1-1 against Indy this season?

by Jaina on Mar 22, 2008 10:03 AM CDT 0 recs

Thanks Jaina

My bad! I believe we are 2-1, winning the last 2 games against Indy. Thanks!

by chgobr on Mar 22, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yes

I forgot about the 3rd one... I just remember having lost to them the first time.

by Jaina on Mar 22, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up 0 recs

Actually, when we lost

to them the first time it turned out to be the first in a season-long trend of losing huge leads. Only no one knew it at that point in the season.

At that time, I found myself thinking it would be great to be the Pacers--they have guys who can simply fill it up. I think Dunleavy scored like 36 points the other night. Tinsley can rack up assists, Daniels can score, and of course when O'Neal comes back they'll have that inside presence offensively. They just lack chemistry.

But then, they're not that different from the Bulls. The Bulls have shown flashes of offensive dominance (occasionally; see their last home game against the Nuggets). And their losing ways seem to have more to do with their lack of team chemistry.

I agree with the above--the Pacers and Bulls have similar issues. Maybe they can swap parts (including GMs?) and just start over. I don't know.

I do know that Bird was really hyping up Ben Gordon coming out of college. And Kirk Hinrich is the Midwestern gym rat who stays out of trouble, something that Indy would probably pay a premium for, with all of their negative press lately.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 22, 2008 10:40 AM CDT 0 recs

We don't know who their GM is going to be

by chgobr on Mar 22, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up 0 recs

A winnable game

Yay?

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 22, 2008 11:16 AM CDT 0 recs

I'm having that problem right now

Do I want the Bulls to win and make a playoff push, or would I rather they lose until they're forced to call it off for the year? I'm finding that I can't actually not pull for the guys to win during each game, yet I'm having no problem at this point brushing off the losses. The Spurs game is the type that would have really bugged me even a month ago, and now I'm just resigned to nights like that.

On the other hand, I would like a couple more really sharp games before the end of the season to save something fun for my summer basketball desperation days.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 22, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

I just hope

like hell Kirk can play tonight.

As to your questions, I hate to see them make too many changes until they bring in a new coach. Give him a chance to work with the players and see if he can turn this ship around. If it had been one player I would say trade him but it wasn't just one. Let's see what a new coaching staff can do with what we have.

by sue369 on Mar 22, 2008 11:47 AM CDT 0 recs

This group of players confuses me.

There are times I think they are really good and we should keep them together. And then there are the other times. I think we need a coach that can build on our strengths. But, what are our strengths? I proposed we can be an excellent defensive team with this group. I think Hughes, with proper coaching could be a terrific defensive force. I also think our team has decent human beings that are coachable.

by chgobr on Mar 22, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

They have

played well the last couple of years so I have to think this year is just a bump in the road. There may be factors to this dismal season that we know nothing about. I'd like to see these guys get a chance to redeem themselves.

by sue369 on Mar 22, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

Give the girl a prize

In my humble opinion, Sue, you hit the nail right on the head. Since the team has been so mismanaged this year, how can anyone objectively evaluate their talent level with a high degree of certainty. Boylan has shown he lacks the skills to innovate. He even said he steals all his ideas from those coaches he has worked for.

He has given the fans no reason to think he actually assimilated most (any?) of them or can
make adjustments on the fly in crucial game situations that would lead to wins. The Bulls did win 49 games last year with some could argue, less talented players. Before we make the mistake of giving up or keeping the wrong players, lets see how they could perform with real coaches who actually understand matchups, cohesion and the value of letting players know thier roles for more than one game, or for that matter, even a quarter.

Please, Jimbo act like you're not afraid to make a mistake once in a while. You have lowered the bar so close to the ground you really have only one way to go without reaching the center of the earth.

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 22, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

i'm tired of hearing that...

...Skiles was a real coach (despite his many flaws) and even he couldn't make it work. We have a good supporting cast but as presently constructed this roster is mediocre at best

by bullsfaninbigapple on Mar 22, 2008 11:03 PM CDT up 0 recs

ummmm

the bulls better keep thabo...and calipari is a good coach, but if pax might dip into the college ranks, i want ben howland from ucla. he gets the most out of his players and his teams always play great d. then the bulls can draft russell westbrook, try and trade hinrich and hughes, and have a three guard rotation of bg, thabo and westbrook. i like that, but i realize hinrich and hughes are probably the two hardest guys to move right now.
i hope the bulls can beat the pacers, but really, i would rather they just totally sucked the rest of the year to get a decent pick. if they still had a shot at the 7th seed, i would be all for them making it. but when you are fighting for the eighth seed to play the east's probable final representative, there isnt much hope anyway.

by Conor on Mar 22, 2008 12:44 PM CDT 0 recs

Two teams in the crapper

I haven't seen a NBA have such bad press over the past few years the way the Pacers have, even the Blazers' fall from grace wasn't this spectacular. Pretty sad when you consider they used to be a top 5 team in the league.

Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 22, 2008 1:29 PM CDT 0 recs

Here's what I've learned from

three straight days of watching the Tourney.

There is no player in the college ranks that can save the Bulls, even if we miraculously secured the first pick in the draft.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 22, 2008 1:42 PM CDT 0 recs

P.S. Beasley has looked the best of the

touted young stars, but I don't think he will be a dominant force at the NBA level.

I guess I could be wrong, though.

I also don't know if the Bulls need another 6-9 forward.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 22, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

Isn't there a league limit?

BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 6 - Recognizing that he may only be the next Shawn Kemp

by cubbybear on Mar 22, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

you'd think

but then wouldn't atlanta have gone over by now?

by Jaina on Mar 22, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

Let's put this 6'9

dominant college rebounder/scorer in perspective.

Terry Cummings led the NCAA in scoring and rebounding to become an ok pro.

Ditto for Kurt Thomas.

Marcus Fizer was heralded as a man among boys in college, despite the fact that he never really rebounded consistently (or at all).

Two 6'9 guys in the league who come to mind, who have actually dominated in the NBA, are Ben Wallace (pre-Bulls only) and Carlos Boozer (last two-plus seasons only). I'm sure there are other examples, but these are just two that come to mind. Wallace was undrafted out of college. Boozer was drafted in the 2nd round.

Seems to me that taking a highly touted 6'9 scorer/rebounder out of college would be the safe and understandable thing to do. But I don't think it would be the right thing to do.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 22, 2008 6:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

how tall is elton brand

...he's pretty damn good

by bullsfaninbigapple on Mar 22, 2008 11:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

I looked at that, too.

He's listed as 6'8 on his NBA.com profile.

A pretty good pro, but only an All-Star what, once? Twice maybe? Doesn't seem to be able to create his own shot much down low, as that's more Chris Kaman's role. Brand's role seems to be rebounding and put-backs. Hardly worth spending a #1 overall on.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 23, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

that's sarcasm, right?

Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 23, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up 0 recs

Terry Cummings

was tearing up the league from his very first game (and was ROY, IIRC?). Then had the heart incident that resulted in defibrillators being mandated present at all NBA games. IIRC he also was put on special meds. His play (and promise) never reached that early level again during his long career. (IMHO)

by marionette on Mar 23, 2008 2:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

Career stats link

here

by marionette on Mar 23, 2008 2:21 AM CDT up 0 recs

Bye bye Dukies.

When LSU made its Final Four run two years ago, Tyrus dominated top seeded Duke. He repeatedly swatted Redick on the defensive end and owned the paint on the offensive end, including a few spectacular tip dunks over Sheldon Williams. The game culminated in a play where Tyrus got an inbounds pass, dribbled the ball coast to coast, and dunked it. Then, on the very next Duke possession, Paulus drove the lane and threw up a runner which Tyrus swatted out of the gym. Tyrus went berserk as a timeout was called.

To see the sequence, go to the 2:45 mark in this video (listen to the announcer gush over Tyrus after the block):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ar6Y8ATzek

It's very sad to see that enthusiastic, promising young talent transformed into a sullen fringe player by the Bulls organization. Disgusting. Pathetic franchise that instigates power struggles with its own young.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 22, 2008 3:31 PM CDT 0 recs

Just let them play

I think we've got so much potential. It's just sad to see these players get overwhelmed. I think Tyrus is still adjusting to the NBA lifestyle, and as much as we hate watching Boylan coach, it's easy to see how frustrating that would be for the players.

BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 6 - Recognizing that he may only be the next Shawn Kemp

by cubbybear on Mar 22, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

Give Tyrus 30 mins in a game

and he'll give you a double-double. He's five for five this year. Not sure why the Bulls coaching staff finds him so appalling.

by No bull on Mar 22, 2008 11:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

wow!

I imagine this is the reason Paxson drafted Tyrus because he man handled coach-K's group of Dukie duds in the last 2 minutes of the game. Yes Dukie duds! Riddick was ok, but he's a smallist guard? Paulius and the rest of the Dukie duds are out of the NCAA tournament now? I wish he would have watch more Tournament games that year, and had not been so impressed with a couple of blocks, a sleeping Duke defense and Tyrus's emotional outbursts. Paxson look for real talent, skill and consistency proven over a period of time, potential displayed over 4 games alone doesn't work for the lack of player development programs at the Chicago Bulls. History should have been your lesson with Krause and E-Rob?

by exult463 on Mar 23, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up 0 recs

Great Post

Love the questions, my thoughts exactly about the rest of the season. I especially agree with the Deng and Hinrich notions. I loved Luol, but lately he's grown to be a major question mark in my book. Is he a 55 million dollar man?

by BarryLird on Mar 22, 2008 4:19 PM CDT 0 recs

I'll be there behind one of the basket

in my Tyrus jersey!!!

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 22, 2008 4:51 PM CDT 0 recs

Has Coach K.......

....really looked tired lately, or what?

After these last two games, he may be ready to take a rest from the college game. (Then again, he could come back breathing fire in RDNC next season, too.)

If I were Paxson, I'd make a run at him to be Head Coach of the Bulls, anyway. It can't hurt to try!!

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 22, 2008 5:29 PM CDT 0 recs

They said he's had the flu this week

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 22, 2008 5:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

Kirk is

starting tonight. Hope his ankle doesn't bother him too much.

by sue369 on Mar 22, 2008 7:07 PM CDT 0 recs

Looks like Pacers feed tonight

It seems like it's been a while since I got the other team's feed. Hopefully the guys play well enough to get talked up a little.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 22, 2008 7:40 PM CDT 0 recs

It's no better watching WGN

I'm amazed that WGN - a "superstation", is not even HD for their Bulls Broadcasts.

WTF?

Spring training....FINALLY!!

by Bluelou on Mar 22, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

Team looks good for the most part.

Glad to see Luol coming out hot. Gordon vs. Deiner is awesome. Two no-defense guards against each other, and Gordon is the FAR SUPERIOR offensive player.

Tyrus Thomas's jump shot looks awesome. It almost looks like he releases it a "nanosecond" too late, but he's got nice form, nice follow-through, nice arc, etc. Anyone who says that all he does is dunk and block shots is an idiot.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 22, 2008 8:16 PM CDT 0 recs

Noc and Boylan get into argument

Noc thrown off the bench into the locker room after the diener in to the chair play.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 22, 2008 8:29 PM CDT 0 recs

Fucking Boylan

Too bad Noc didn't punch him.

by Big D on Mar 22, 2008 8:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

I didn't even know Noc got tossed from the game

they were just talking about it

Spring training....FINALLY!!

by Bluelou on Mar 22, 2008 8:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

Noc-Boylan

I thought I saw Noc get sent to the locker room. As usual the TV guys were oblivious.

by El Toro de Goro on Mar 22, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

Noc throwing a little temper tantrum

for the quick playing time hooks.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 22, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

Did you see

him go over and grab a towel and throw it at Boylan and the yell something at him? I saw Boylan get up and say something to Noch and then Noch gets up and leaves. Oh boy, it's always something with this team.

by sue369 on Mar 22, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

Don't worry,

He's professional coach Boylan, and he's in charge. ;)

I'm sure fines and DNPs will follow.... Whether this gets Du out of the doghouse or Du and Noc have to share it is another question.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 22, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

LOL, yep.

Let's see...

Started with Noah, then Thomas, Duhon, and now Nocioni.

So who's the next Bull to create some drama?

My guess is Hughes, You can tell by the Boylan glares that he's not happy with him.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 22, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

I wonder if anyone actually respects Boylan

Maybe Drew Gooden, since he hasn't been here long and has played well enough that Boylan hasn't been able to jerk him around. Give him a few weeks, though.

by Big D on Mar 22, 2008 8:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

don't

forget the argument with gray, and the rumors of a gordon/hinrich uprising vs. boylan in the locker room...

by leeac on Mar 22, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

link please

can you possibly link me to any of those stories...I try to follow pretty well but I seemed to have missed out. thanks again!

At least if we make the playoffs at the 8th seed, Tyrus can get back at Posey for breaking his nose...

by AGBallinisaHabit on Mar 22, 2008 10:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

here's

one regarding hinrich/gordon. the gray/boylan spat i believe happened as he was being yanked from a recent game. i didn't see it but it was discussed a few times here at BaB.

http://www.blogabull.com/story/2008/3/15/22119/8695

by leeac on Mar 22, 2008 11:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

thanks

At least if we make the playoffs at the 8th seed, Tyrus can get back at Posey for breaking his nose...

by AGBallinisaHabit on Mar 23, 2008 12:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

No thanks to Hughes

THABO is da MAN!

Spring training....FINALLY!!

by Bluelou on Mar 22, 2008 8:33 PM CDT 0 recs

Nice reverse there

by Mr. Sefolosha

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 22, 2008 8:33 PM CDT 0 recs

I'm gonna have to catch the first half later

but the boxscore looks good. Too bad the lead isn't a little nicer. It's quiet in here tonight!

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 22, 2008 8:34 PM CDT 0 recs

Not the best half

but i thought tyrus did good in his minutes he just needs to let the game come to him and he does much better. It cracks me up when red bitches about hughes and on the other hand goes crazy for gray. They need to play better d on the three and they should easily have this.

by bullzfan148 on Mar 22, 2008 8:37 PM CDT 0 recs

Gray played well in the minutes given.

They should not have brought back Gooden in for him. He only had 1 foul and was rolling. 5pts 4 rebs? Hughes, on the other hand, took several quick, bad shots in that first half. It seems that when a player is rolling, Boylan constantly rotates players solely on who the opposing coach is rotating. Shouldn't it be the opposing teams job to rotate to try to counter what is working for you?

by BiNgO on Mar 22, 2008 8:46 PM CDT up 0 recs