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Open Game Thread #65: Bulls vs Philadelphia 76ers

SHOWDOWN.

I heard radio reports that Thabo is active for tonight. There's also word that Andre Miller may be out, however he has a 431 games played streak, so I doubt he sits.

If you get bored here, Kelly Dwyer is liveblogging the game over at Yahoo!.

This is a must-win for the pseudo-important 7th seed. And the Bulls are coming off a long-layoff and are at home. Judging by this season, those are all factors pointing towards demoralizing turd sandwich of an outing. But I'll hope otherwise.

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Intresting
Must Win?
Long Break?
Thabo is Playing?
Hell I bet the orginization feels alot for duhon and will let him get some minutes.

What does that mean?

Were Doomed!!

Oh sure, the bulls Need this win, and the 76ers can definetly take the loss and still come out chipper, but that doesnt change anything.

Whats that? Boylan has some extra cool plays to run tonight? The boylan factor isnt neglectable. A must win game, usually turns into a loss for this bulls team. Its the games that you expect them to lose when they show up. Huh, that sort of puts me at an ironic paradox.

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 14, 2008 6:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm almost rooting for a Bear Sterns
like collapse from the Bulls the rest of the season, just so Paxson is forced to go back to the drawing board with this team.

That said, I will waste another night watching this team run by a clown frustrate the hell out of me.

by MarketMaker on Mar 14, 2008 6:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Congrats!
Looks like you got your wish for this game.
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 15, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have
no idea what to think will happen tonight. Glad Thabo will play though. :-)

by sue369 on Mar 14, 2008 7:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Go Bulls and Go Jayhawks!
And may Kirk have a better game than the first-half crap his alma mater put out there.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 7:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Am I the only one
that can barely hear the crew talk?

by gobulls1124 on Mar 14, 2008 7:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm actually glad not to hear "the crew"
It sounds like you're at the first row in UC.Good.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are we gonna see Thabo in the first???
They are very athletic.We need TT and Thabo.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 8:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yea
TT's stretch was not good.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice block !
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 8:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

he's been ok
just not hitting those jumpers.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the other hand
Just like last game, the Bulls are starting to build a lead at the start of the 2nd quarter with a lineup including Tyrus and Thabo.

As punishment for building that lead in the last game, Boylan sat both of them for most of the 2nd half.

by balta1701 on Mar 14, 2008 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with TT shooting those jumpers
is he can't go for the offensive rebound very well,  Especially if Gray is trying to post up.  Then there's nobody going for the rebound.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 8:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind
him shooting jumpers when he's in rhythm; it opens up the rest of his game.  But I prefer when his jumpers come after he's gotten into the flow of the game - rebounding, attacking the rim.  The things he does best.

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he can hit that shot
just don't fall in love with it.  
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

get gray the hell out of there!
why did paxson include him in the "young guys to get more minutes?"

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 8:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Anybody see
Gray miss that point blank layup? Ben Wallace taught him a little something something i guess.
Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 14, 2008 8:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Huhges and Sefo!!
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 8:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

SEfo!!!!!!!!
And Threee!!!
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 8:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus
still too much on the perimeter, but THabo looks great!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 14, 2008 8:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm so glad Skiles gone
Thabo has been very good.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 8:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This broadcast is hilarious
Almost every commercial break, it either comes back to the game already in progress or cuts the commercial off in the middle.

And I'm so incredibly sick of the pancake puff pan commercial!

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 8:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

you're lucky
i just get the blue lp screen
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll definitely take this over nothing!
I was wondering if some of the regular guys are off doing the college tournaments - we had a heavy dose of Stacey in the Big XII tournament today.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops
they forgot to put the blue screen on for that commercial break.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
Now I'm getting the blue screen and stand-by music treatment instead of commercials.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

good half
Atlanta is killing the Clippers.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 8:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ha
you must be kidding?
At least if we make the playoffs at the 8th seed, Tyrus can get back at Posey for breaking his nose...

by AGBallinisaHabit on Mar 15, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice half.
We gotta beat this team badly.
If bulls play with the same level of intensity.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 8:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thabo is
just a stud. If nothing else Skiles should have been fired for keeping Thabo on the bench.

by sue369 on Mar 14, 2008 8:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kevin Ollie has 47 per 48...
What does that tell you about that stat?

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoops.
Meant to post that lower. Sorry.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 TOs for the half?
That's pretty darn good for the Bulls!  (Or anyone, but you all know what I mean, right?)
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 8:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I like this team so much better
sans Smith, Wallace.  Actually enjoy the Bulls again.  Now if we can just get T2 going....

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 8:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else
have their LP just switch to the Pistons game?

by sue369 on Mar 14, 2008 8:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I've still got the Bulls
but it has been really odd tonight.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Iggy number 4.I will count it till
"Hit the road Jack"!
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 9:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why does Deng
have to start each half with a blown layup?
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 9:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

In the last 2 games...
Thabo has 44 pts/48 minutes.

by potato0328 on Mar 14, 2008 9:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ah yes...
Kevin Ollie has 47 per 48. What does that tell you about the stat?

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha, I know I know
But you can't deny that Thabo has been quite effective recently.

by potato0328 on Mar 14, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
Just bustin yer chops.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Say what you want about Ollie,
but he played great tonight.
"Jerome James PER.. is 46.68... Do that trade now! Screw Horford, we don't need him. Jerome is a monster!!!!!!!!!" - BNeL21

by NittanyBull on Mar 14, 2008 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...
I think I jinxed it too.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus is playing center!
A rarity.  I'm enjoying this.

by YaoPau on Mar 14, 2008 9:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

this is a terrirble lineup
defensive rebounding wise
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reggie Evans
 is just a hack.

by alec on Mar 14, 2008 9:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And to top it off, he's making free throws
I suppose this is what the other team's fans felt like on the rare occasion Ben Wallace knocked 'em down for the Bulls.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thabo with the bucket
the bull's new end of quarter go-to-guy?  just kidding.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 9:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If Thabo will shoot 3's on regular basis
he's gonna be our best player I mean leader.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 9:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Just as I'm thinking how much better they're doing
at playing smart with a lead, here comes Kirk with back to back dumb-ass turnovers.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 9:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kirk Fans,
This is exactly why he's so maddening. It's not that people are mean-spirited and hate a nice guy like Kirk. It's that for all of his hard work and positive attributes, he'll go and absolutely crush the momentum with horrible turnovers. Not understandable or normal turnovers, but absolutely horrible, tragic, blood-curdling aggravating turnovers. The one at the end of the fourth quarter where he pushed off of Dalembert was an unfortunate call, but still, you would never see these kinds of horrible turnovers by Kirk in past years. What gives?
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 15, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Smith, Colorado State
i remember when he ws making the rounds last year.  everyone was surprised by his athleticism.

by alec on Mar 14, 2008 9:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thabo's line drives
look a lot like Kobe's line drives

by California Al on Mar 14, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's kind of crazy that Thabo seems so unbothered
by anything, but was apparently a complete mess under Skiles.  He's been great the second half of the season.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why can't we get boring win by 20 points?
Bulls need some intrigue.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 9:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow
this is so...predictable.  And in refrence to Nocioni, it's not just that he misses so many shots, it's that he misses so many bad shots.  

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 9:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Give Philly credit for hitting those free throws
+21 advantage there - of course, I object to the fact that they've taken 22 more than the Bulls, but they're sure knocking them down tonight.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 9:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And this is mental
No "killer instict".Ugh...
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I blame the coach
to have this happen twice - Washington and now again - is pathetic.  There's obviously talent here, but no leadership.

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 9:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

all that movement and passing
and now everything is head fakes and one-on-one...
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 9:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, hot damn
"Jerome James PER.. is 46.68... Do that trade now! Screw Horford, we don't need him. Jerome is a monster!!!!!!!!!" - BNeL21

by NittanyBull on Mar 14, 2008 9:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice time out, Boylan!
Perhaps five minutes ago?  

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 9:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

So frickin' frustrating!
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 9:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That charge
was a horrendous call. I hope that lost possession doesn't end up being the deciding factor.

by potato0328 on Mar 14, 2008 10:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to ever hear any crap
about Hinrich being a good defensive guard again.  Not against quick points, he isn't.  Travis Diener, now summer-league MVP LOUIS WILLIAMS have him for lunch.  Oy.

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 10:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Thabos' D much more effective.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you see that??!!!
How Thabo defended???
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

philly has 37 in the 4th
when did they get all those points?
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 10:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Is something wrong with Gordon?
I hadn't heard anything. Is there a reason he's barely playing?

by BoxingHideout on Mar 14, 2008 10:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hinrich
looked so bad.

by Kemp on Mar 14, 2008 10:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There!
THAT was defense.  Twice Thabo stopped his penetration, and he ended up with zilch.  Very nice!

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 10:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well...
he wasn't. Another crap call.

by potato0328 on Mar 14, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hm, I haven't watched the game at all today
because it wasn't on ESPN or TNT.

Then I remembered that I get Philly Comcast.

"Jerome James PER.. is 46.68... Do that trade now! Screw Horford, we don't need him. Jerome is a monster!!!!!!!!!" - BNeL21

by NittanyBull on Mar 14, 2008 10:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

really, that's the play
BG just give it your best shot?
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 10:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

well that's it
the end.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 14, 2008 10:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Team with a go to guy
like Gordon sucks.
I'm so frustrated.
Pax make some moves now!!!
Fire this joke named Jim Boylan!!!
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 10:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Boylan's coaching
What's with pulling Thabo at a key point in the game, when he's obviously got the hot hand, and is having the game of his life?

Also, couldn't Boylan draw up a play to get Gordon a 3-point pump fake and draw a foul? Every other good team in the league seems to have this kind of play in their arsenal. Boylan's just not going to ever try this with one of the best free throw shooters in the league?

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 15, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow wow wow
Most of all, this falls on Kirk and Boylan.  Kirk for his awful turnovers and defense, Boylan for his lack of anything resembling leadership.  

Goodnight all.

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 10:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kirk did have a horrible 4th quarter
And when the hell is Boylan going to realize that the team plays well when Joakim is in?  He was doing fine, no reason to bench him - and how much evidence does he need that the other options are NOT better?
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 14, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and his best shot
was to get the defender in the air, and then step into a 2 point shot to avoid getting fouled from the three!!!  brilliant

by California Al on Mar 14, 2008 10:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

arggghhh
I wish there was some sort of frustration hotline I could call right now.

by potato0328 on Mar 14, 2008 10:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

wow..
...it's a good thing I couldn't watch the game...it's depressing just seeing the score...

by bullsfaninbigapple on Mar 14, 2008 10:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Me too.
n/t
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 7 - Unhealthily making excuses for missing practice

by cubbybear on Mar 14, 2008 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't believe this
... What the fuck just happen? Philly come from 18 back.. Boylan is so stupid... Why does he always plays gooden alone in the 4th? FUCK, FUCK, FUCK!!!

by bull83 on Mar 14, 2008 10:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Shit hits the fan again while Noah on bench
Boylan can never seem to play the right players at the right times.

by BiNgO on Mar 14, 2008 10:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Can't this season
just be over with already?  Its been a nightmare.  I'd rather be a Cubs fan and they haven't even won in 100 years.  

by cranscape on Mar 14, 2008 10:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Luol "David Copperfield" Deng
I will say it again because he showed us again.  When the game is a blowout either way, Deng is a killer!!!  But when it gets close and money time arrives, the dude is nowhere to be found.  Deng scored in the 4th with about 9:50 to go when we were ahead 14........and then scored on a dunk with about 2:00 to go when we were down 3.  Those are the only two shots he took in the 4th till he fired up that last second desperation shot.  This guy is nowhere to be found at crunch time, once again leaving "Little" Ben to force up a shot down the stretch instead of being a guy we can post up or give the ball to down the stretch.  And this is the man you all want to be the future star of the team?  Whatever!!!

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 14, 2008 10:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Luol Deng (rant number 2)
The boy's heart pumps kool aid through his veins.  No fire in him.  No desire to take over and be the man he should be for us.  I wish he would grow some balls and decide to come up big down the stretch before the season is over!!!!!

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 14, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We've been waiting years for that
Tyrus has taken over more games in his career(1).
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 7 - Unhealthily making excuses for missing practice

by cubbybear on Mar 14, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hahha
I don't know why I found that so funny.  So funny, so true, so sad.  Oh god, depression setting in.  Deng needs to go.

by YaoPau on Mar 14, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

defense sucks....
I know the refs were bad tonight, but come on... play some f-ing d!@#!@@#!  I hope Hinrich gets mugged on the way home and I hope Tyrus chokes Boylan to death.

by Chitown23 on Mar 14, 2008 10:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

BAB
is an invaluable outlet for Bulls rage.  That comment just reminded me.
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 7 - Unhealthily making excuses for missing practice

by cubbybear on Mar 14, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep Noah and Thabo
and do whatever it takes to get a real superstar player.
This team is mentally WEAK.No leadership,no killer
instict.Normal team would let Shanon Brown,Duhon,Gray etc. finish this game with 15 points up.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 10:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

who was the horribull tonight
I missed the game who was our worst player tonight? Also, how did noah look in his limited minutes.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 14, 2008 10:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I would say Kirk.
He just killed bulls in fourth.Thabo was the best.
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 14, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I repeat - F#$% the playoffs!!
I hope everyone saw tonight why this season should be over as soon as possible, playoffs be damned.

Boylan is an idiot who doesn't deserve to coach another game.

Deng can't take over the game.  It's obvious that Iggy is a better player.

Miss playoffs & earn Lottery pick.

FIRE BOYLAN.

Sign and trade Gordon and Deng if possible; if not, I'd consider letting them both walk unless they'll accept about half of what they were (reportedly) offered.

If Paxson can package the Lottery pick with Gordon or Deng (sign & trade) or Kirk or Gooden or Hughes or all of them - to move up and draft a REAL NBA point guard, or to acquire a stud veteran - DO IT!

Go into next season with a real NBA Head Coach, a legitimate 8- or 9-player rotation, and a clean slate.

Playoffs???????  (said in my best Jim Mora voice)   PLAYOFFS????  

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 10:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's awful
but I can't find any upside to this team.  There's nobody that I'd want to build around - just a lot of complimentary pieces.  Maybe Noah with weight and a jumpshot.  Maybe Deng if he grows a pair.  

Awful.  

(End rant)

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 10:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm tired of this...
... if we want to go to the playoffs to make this sad figure, i rather not to. How can we do smothing with Nocioni shooting 2/10? The guy is crazy... And what about Hinrich? Poor defense... Is he really the capitan? He doesn't show that...
I'm losing my faith

by bull83 on Mar 14, 2008 10:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

my one defense of deng
is that boylan never lets him rest.. that's my theory behind his disappearance in the 4th quarter (and in other games too).  he played 38 minutes in a game we were leading by 15+ most of the time.

other than that.. noah should have been in at the end... and those charge calls were bogus. after watching the bulls this season i am pretty sure the refs do not want them to win.  like ever.  the sixers made TWICE the amount of free throws we even attempted.  oh wait... that happened the last time we lost to them, too. :P

by Jaina on Mar 14, 2008 10:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Right, but
he's NEVER stepped up in the 4th quarter.

Also, there are plenty of guys in the NBA who play more minutes than Deng, and they're expected to take over the game in the 4th.

There's no excuses for Deng anymore.  You need a certain mental toughness to rise from average to all-star, and he doesn't have it.

by YaoPau on Mar 14, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I already told you...
... You're right.

It makes so much sense to just cut Deng.

Any other gems you'd like to pass on to me?

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really? You're in a listening mood?
Well, there is something, then.  Next time, please think twice before indulging in unsolicited personal attacks.  I don't know where you think it gets you.  If you want to challenge a post, make your case.  I don't think anyone here minds in the least.  I've acknowledged better arguments here many times...but that's when a better argument was made, not just a few cheap insults tossed out.

by alec on Mar 14, 2008 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My apologies...
You do know everything about basketball.

When you were telling me all about your friend who coaches high school basketball and how he schooled you on the finer points of spacing (and then you in turn schooled me) I was obviously a fool for not listening closely enough.

When you were telling me about how Tyrus Thomas and Deng can't play on the same team because the plan is to have Tyrus play a similar position which will make Deng as useless as stale chewing gum, I should have taken notes.

Please excuse my hubris, I promise I'll try to listen better from now on.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see.
Insulting is basically what you do.  Whatever.

by alec on Mar 14, 2008 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Listen...
I'm not sure where you think I was insulting you, unless you call disagreeing with a ridiculous point you tried to argue with me on a different thread which led me to suggest you actually watch an NBA game... If that's insulting you then I truly am sorry if I hurt your feelings.

All things being equal, I can still say with confidence, even after a game where Deng "disappears" in the 4th quarter (but went 10-21 before that) that we probably shouldn't cut him. Maybe put some better players/coaching around him in tight situations, but not cut him.

If you can't see that, then I just don't know what to tell you... Except maybe you need to watch more NBA games.

Hugs?

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're going to have to show me where
I said to cut Deng.

And if you want to knock my sources, feel free. Sometimes the people here are my sources.  The coach/friend you belittle was a national merit finalist, walked-on at an Ivy League school, and now coaches one of the top prep programs in the country--I consider him a good source.  

I come here and ask questions, or make statements in an attempt to get dialogue going.  I know I'm no expert, and have never once pretended to be one. Nor have I ever had a problem being shown where I'm wrong.  A lot of good basketball arguments are made in these pages.  I listen and consider every argument that's made against me.  But attacking the person is the weakest form of argument--in fact, it's not a form at all.  It generally occurs as a last resort when the person can't make the counter case.

So you like Deng.  I get it.  I think he's a weakish player at a critical position that particularly demands a strong player.    

by alec on Mar 15, 2008 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My mistake...
Your exact words were "Deng is the first player I've been looking to replace on this team."

I asked you several times (at least 5 by my count) who you wanted to replace him with, but everytime you declined to answer. I guess I just assumed this meant we should cut him altogether.

Now you'll have to show me where I "attacked" you or your honorable friend. If it's the sarcasm you detected then fair enough, but to say I attacked him or you is just plain false.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 15, 2008 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I for one believe that you can plug.....
... Thabo in at the 3 if he is indeed the 6'7" that he is listed at.  His upside is at least as good as that of Deng's in my opinion.  I actually believe that he has a higher ceiling because he is capable of doing more things than Deng.  Then we could move Deng (as well as Gordon if we so chose to but I would like to keep Ben because despite his size and shortcomings he is our best scorer and potentially an elite offensive player in this league) and get more valuable pieces.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 15, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alec........
....I'm gonna have to second your motion about Deng.  I wouldn't necessarily call him weakish, but I get your point and won't necessarily disagree with you.  If holding him to the standard that some in this forum have set for him, then by that definition he is indeed weakish.  On this very forum I have said there are AT LEAST 15 small forwards I would take before I take Deng and then commenced to naming them and off the top of my head I think I came up with about 6 from the Eastern Conference alone.

You know what Alec,

Upon further review, I agree whole heartedly with your assessment.  Deng is a weakish player at his postion.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 15, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's cause
he's constantly overused with no rest.  his minutes are actually down this year, but with the shitty substitution patterns boylan uses, he's usually out for like the entire 2nd half.

no need for him to be out there for 38 minutes in a game we mostly dominated.  should have left him fresher for the 4th.

also, i'm in no way trying to argue that deng is better than most of the guys who play more minutes.  included are ai, kobe, lebron, wade, mcgrady... deng isn't there.  maybe he could take more shots.. if gordon would quit tripping over his own feet.

i don't know.. but i truly believe that's the reason.  he probably is tired.  the guy is only 21 or 22.

by Jaina on Mar 14, 2008 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand...
...what you're saying (writing actually), but I'm not sure I agree.

I think Deng has been overused, both in minutes per game and in coming back from injuries to early.  But we can't allow that to obfuscate the fact that Deng doesn't rise to the occasion...well...ever.

There's a certain mental toughness - as has been mentioned above - that the best players display in allowing them to overcome injuries, fatigue, and most importantly - their opponents.

Deng is a great complimentary player.  He's a Ron Harper, but he's no Scottie Pippen.  I view Deng in the same light as Bernard Berrian.  On paper they have a chance at greatness, but they've never been able to put it all together and dominate.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well
i agree with that much.  i tend to oversimplify my points on here or else i could rant forever.

simply put, i think he's been overused and gets tired, and then takes the heat for disappearing when he's played for like 24 straight minutes.  but i never claimed to think he was the bulls' version of the messiah.  i really like deng and i'd like to keep him on the team.  but at the same time, i agree he hasn't shown himself to be the #1 option on the team.

by Jaina on Mar 14, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jaina, I respect your opinion but.......
...this is a ridiculous excuse.  Luol Deng is a 22 year old ball player.  Now tell me honestly, what basketball player ON ANY LEVEL would complain and say he's playing too many minutes and that's affecting his energy levels down the stretch.  Everybody is tired down the stretch but real "go getters" have somethin' else deep down inside of them that they pull from and they finish the task.  They love the 4th quarter and they come up big.  Ben Gordon is a FAR superior late game performer than Deng.  The only reason he struggles so much at the end is because he basically has ZERO help down the stretch, least of all Deng in most games.

Stop providing this crutch for Deng and demand he step up his game when it counts!!!!!!  If he can't then lets get somebody in here who can.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 15, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i just want to say
that i appreciate the discussion and that it's not turning into some awful banter the way i see some arguments around here.

anyways, i want deng to be that special player, but i understand and see the points being made.  i never said deng shouldn't be stepping up, i think he should be.  however, he's often the least rested on the court in late game situations because he hasn't had a break.  he's not kobe or lebron or many of the real high minute guys, and isn't going to be, either.

i'd love to see the bulls get someone deng could be a compliment to.  i don't know exactly what the fix is.  we should get a real coach, first of all.  i think we need someone with a better court vision than hinrich.  i like hinrich, but sometimes.. i don't know.

anyhow i really was just giving my 2 cents as to why i think deng disappears sometimes.  it's not a great excuse, really, but it's what i see.  i've seen boylan leave guys out there way too long, not just deng.  gooden got tired at the end of the utah game, and you could tell by that foul toward the end of the game that he just was too gassed to play real defense.  in the portland game (i was in attendance), the guys had been out for like the whole 4th quarter and OTs... one foul i saw kirk commit was clearly out of exhaustion.

by Jaina on Mar 15, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he is tired he should just.......
....raise his hand and ask for a sub!  Come on now.  This guy is 22 years old and averages 35 minuted per game.  He isn't tired!!!

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 15, 2008 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

here's where you're wrong
i've seen a couple instances, not of deng, but of other players, not getting rest when asked.  can't remember which game, but while hinrich was getting the bench treatment, hughes wanted to come out and have hinrich replace him.  boylan waved him off.

there was a sub in the utah game that gooden assumed was for him cause he had been in so long.  waved off. boylan made him stay in.

those decisions are up to the coach and he clearly can't see where his players are getting tired, or not listening to them.

by Jaina on Mar 15, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh and
as i argued above, it's the substitution patterns that get him.  his minutes are down from like 37 last season, but he still gets in situations where most of his rest comes in the first half and then is playing almost the entire second half, which is deceiving for getting rest.

by Jaina on Mar 15, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No excuses for Deng.
Hell, if he is supposed to be this "special player" that so many Bulls fans think he is then he should relish responsibilty being thrust at him so that he can rise to the occassions.  I believe that the truth is Deng is just not that kind of guy who will consistently rise to the occassion.

People wonder why Gordon always shoots the last shot.....it's because Deng is nowhere to be found at that time of the game!!!  If Deng puts us on his shoulders and matches what Philly does down the stretch to preserve this Bulls win then none of this is an issue. We beat Philly and move within a half game of the last playoff spot....again.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 15, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you aren't even listening to the points
people are making.  No one is claiming Deng is a special player.  But he is one of the 2 or 3 best players on the team.  He is a guy who can be a part of a winning team.  He is not the problem.  You spend most of your time on these threads arguing against a point no one ever makes.  No one claims Deng is a star.  No one says he doesn't need to play better.  Stop comparing him to star players.  Stop arguing with straw men.  

by danger mouse on Mar 15, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Part of a winning team?
Can he?  Last year I got roasted for pointing out how, when the Pistons needed to get something done last year, they gave the ball to Prince and he consistently worked over Deng.

When I pointed it out, people were all "so what, he's the least of our problems and our best player".  I'll concede that, but there's a flip side to it.  

Winning basketball, especially in the playoffs, is about having the best guys and the best match ups.  If he's really as slow and soft as he's looked this year, and as unsteady with his shot beyond 18 feet, he's always going to be sitting there for good teams to take advantage of.

He's been far and away my favorite Bull (and the only guy the Bulls have picked that I really wanted them to pick since Pax came on board until Noah this year).  But what top notch team do we play and think we've got the advantage with him vs. their guy?

by Sports2 on Mar 15, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

also
i suppose the point i want to drive clear since i get all these comments is this:

i think deng gets tired due to substitution patterns and being overused in situations he shouldn't be, and that's why he disappears a lot late.  however, do i wish he would step up?  YES!  i'm not saying it's the best excuse, but it is my theory as to why he is accused of being the invisible man.

again, it's not that i don't want him to step up!! believe me i do!

by Jaina on Mar 15, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw this one coming early in the 4th
I love that its likes clockwork on how poor Boylan's substitutions go.  

He has a special knack for creating the spark necessary to get whoever we are playing on a serious run.  

I've never seen a coach so inept at stopping the bleeding when things begin to go bad for his team.

I can't wait to hear his postgame comments.  Something tells me that as usual he will take no blame for being outcoached.

What a joke!!

by MarketMaker on Mar 14, 2008 10:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That last Ben Gordon play was inexcusable
And not so much for Ben Gordon.  At least he had the balls to want to take the last shot.

But I think there were five Bulls on the court for that last play.  And while Gordon was dribbling in circles like a headless chicken, nobody came over to set a pick.  Then, Gordon launches the three, and nobody was under the hoop to rebound.  What the fuck?

Note to Boylan: if you have five players on the court, use them.

by YaoPau on Mar 14, 2008 10:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

seriously, what was Boylan thinking???
If Gordon had been playing for 30+ minutes and was having a great night torching his defenders, then I could understand running an isolation one on one play for him.

But when you play the guy 13 minutes and he's coming in cold in the 4th quarter, why the hell would you draw up an iso for him, in the corner no less (and not at the top of key)???

A YMCA coach of an 8 and under traveling team could manage the game better down the stretch. Unfuckingbelievable.

by Orange Juice on Mar 14, 2008 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he just needs to play Noah at the end..
...it's so fucking obvious even to a fan like me, why can't he see it?

by bullsfaninbigapple on Mar 14, 2008 10:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's not just the last five minutes
it's the whole game.  Noah only played twenty minutes.  That's nuts.  He plays with more fire than anybody - and when he's out there the rest of the team plays with more fire, too.  

by Freethefro on Mar 14, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amen
One look at the veterans' body language when the opponent makes a late run, and you know they're expecting to lose.  And then they go execute to perfection.  Chokes.

by California Al on Mar 14, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chokes?
Did you leave out an 'r'?

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
same word where I grew up

by California Al on Mar 15, 2008 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To repeat my rant
If they fired Boylan and sent the team out without any coach, would they be worse?  

by California Al on Mar 14, 2008 10:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wonder...
First you assign each player a number 1 through 12.

Then pick 5 players at random (dice or another similar device).  Have them start.

Then make substitutions at random times with random players throughout the game.

End result?  I concur.  I'm not certain that their record would be any worse than it is with Boylan as head coach.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hear the chimes?
Here comes Luol "Mr. Softee" Deng.  He is a great third option or maybe a decent second option, but has no ability to take over a game.  I'm glad the Bulls refused to trade him back when he was worth something.  [/sarcasm]

What kills me is that he thought he was worth more than $10 million a year.  Is Danny Granger worth $10 million a year?  Because that's who is in Deng's class.  I don't remember the Pacers saying that Granger was "untouchable" in trades.

This whole team is a joke and our players have been exposed as nothing more than complementary players.  The experiment is over.    TRADE THE F'ING WHOLE TEAM and start over.  This is worse than the Floyd Era.

by Stay Chisel on Mar 14, 2008 10:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

uh....what happened?
I mean, I don't know how Philly came back. All I saw was Boylan have Gooden/Noc and Gooden/Deng for pretty much the whole quarter...so I just started expecting a loss and blacked out the details. And then seeing Boylan stick with it until the bitter end...when the buzzer sounded and the boos rained down I was laughing out loud.

It's not even fair. We're playing with a handicap. He's such an idiot.  

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 10:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ever try to drive a car...
...without a steering wheel?  That's how I feel about the Bulls with Boylan.  You can only get so far with the accelerator and the brakes.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get the rants
over 'mental toughness' hooey. Really?

They're not only without a coach, they're being sabotaged by their coach! Luol Deng was the power forward!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno. I'd love to hear someone
break it down.

It seemed to me that the Bulls thought it was over, and then Philly started getting tough--a guy like Jason Smith got physical inside and the Bulls suddenly looked shocked.  Then little Louis Williams started racing past Hinrich like he was standing still.

By the time the Bulls finally woke up to the fact that Philly hadn't thrown in the towel, it was too late.  From my vantage point it looked 100% like coaching failure.

by alec on Mar 14, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about the fact that Boylan put a
terrible defensive unit on the floo during the latter half of the fourth quarter? There was very little inside defense because Noah and Tyrus were off the floor.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 14, 2008 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure Boylan
will talk about the defense failing in some abstract terms....like as a result of 'poise' or 'toughness', or better yet, 'effort'.

Never considering that perhaps personnel had something to do with it. And I'm sure nobody will ask, and if they do it'll be "why did you sit Noah, wanted to get a look at the other guys?" where the question's brushed off before it's even finished.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

after watching that
and the washington game combined, it's clearly a coaching issue.

no reason to have noah sitting on the bench and deng playing the 4 when we're blowing a lead..

by Jaina on Mar 14, 2008 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and if you take into account
Deng was offensively even less productive during that period of time than Noah would likely have been it hurts even worse.

by cranscape on Mar 14, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just wasted another five hours of my life.
I am so f*** livid right now.

I estimate I have frittered away 125 hours attending Bulls home games this season.

I expend more energy traveling down Madison from the Loop than the entire team expended on defense in the fourth quarter tonight. More planning goes into my route than went into the fourth quarter lineups. My f** cab driver anticipates and adapts to problems much more effectively than Boylan. My bartender at Ketel One was a better motivational leader than this coaching staff.

We have an incomparably crappy team led by an incomparably dunderheaded moron dunce of a douche. Boylan should be hung upside down from the Jordan statue so fans can spit on him and stone him to death.

Up 18 and we lose.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 14, 2008 11:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The bold text was
completely incidental. I was just trying to use symbols to represent the curse words so as not to offend the children or something.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 14, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha!
That's funny. Im putting that as a new sig
"Jerome James PER.. is 46.68... Do that trade now! Screw Horford, we don't need him. Jerome is a monster!!!!!!!!!" - BNeL21

by NittanyBull on Mar 14, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Classic
"My f-ing cab driver anticipates and adapts to problems much more effectively than Boylan."

And you don't feel dirty after paying him.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That goes back to my point...
...that any extra 'player evaluation' we gain by making the playoffs is sabotaged (great word you used) by our idiot-erim Head Coach.

My opinions about Luol certainly weren't a rant.  Mental toughness is qualitative - it can't be measured nor defined.  We don't know how Luol will perform in the 7th game of a tight playoff series because the Bulls haven't been able to put themselves in that position.

I like Luol Deng, and I think we should keep him.  The Bulls would be CRAZY to let him go for nothing.  But I don't think he'll ever be 'dominant'.

As it is, Luol - like every other Bull - is rendered completely impotent by Boylan.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 11:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Meant to reply...
...to Matt's comment about the mental toughness rants.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

or if Deng played his natural position
in crunch time.

Boylan will only clam up more in the playoffs. Worse than Skiles did. You're right.

I don't know that it's so bad that they have to miss the playoffs. It's almost a self-fufilling prophecy: Boylan's so terrible that they won't make it because of him anyway, and it's damned near impossible for him to coach them up to where he keeps his job (conference finals or something...I'd say they'd have to sweep the playoffs and win the title for him to stay).

He's just so bad. At coaching basketball anyway, maybe he has other skills.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kirk Hinrich: 2006-07 All-Defensive Team
Somehow I doubt he'll be making it this year.  Does he have it in his contract that he must play 30 minutes a game no matter how bad he plays?  I'm getting real sick and tired of rooting for a team that plays players simply because they were dumb enough to give them big contracts.  

I spent the first three quarters wondering how the hell the Sixers have a better record than the Bulls.  I found out why in the 4th quarter: because the Sixers have a coach who's not afraid to play his young players big minutes in close games.  Maurice Cheeks isn't a genius, but he's been playing his young players in 4th quarters all year long, and as a result they don't wilt under pressure.  Louis Williams absolutely abused Hinrich in the 4th quarter.  Someone please explain to me why Thabo played only 22 minutes tonight.  And don't tell me about the injury - he was healthy enough to play (and play damn well), so he should have played more than Hinrich and Hughes.  Oh wait, Hinrich and Hughes both have big contracts.  Gimmie a fucking break.  No wonder Deng and Gordon have been pissed off this year.  The Bulls are going to keep Hughes (who makes $13 million a year), and trade Gordon (who's better than Hughes, younger, and will get less than $13 million a year).  Brilliant idea, Pax.  And get a fucking coach too, while you're at it.

by Big D on Mar 14, 2008 11:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

thabo
had 5 fouls in those 23 minutes.  that's why he only played 23.

by Jaina on Mar 14, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it actually hasn't been all season long
it was only after the new GM came in, traded Korver, and told Cheeks what's what.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe our GM should do that
Or maybe we should get a new GM too.

by Big D on Mar 14, 2008 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no he has a plan
retain Boylan, let Gordon walk, trade Thomas for Matt Harpring, and draft Handsborough. Then say something about accountability.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Harpring and Noce on the same team would be fun
Those two were going at it pretty good the other night.  At the very least, the Bulls would pound the crap out of other teams.  Of course, they'd also be completely unable to guard anyone off the dribble, but at least they'd run around a lot and show hustle.  I don't know if that's more effective than Tyrus Thomas's defense (which consists of standing around confused and blocking an occasional shot), but it would at least fool dumb fans into thinking they're great defenders.

by Big D on Mar 14, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,
he only made the second team.
"to the children: Fuck the Bulls." - Matt

by NittanyBull on Mar 14, 2008 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough
Somehow I don't think Wallace will make it again this year either.

by Big D on Mar 14, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's weird
I somehow have that sneaking suspicion as well
"to the children: Fuck the Bulls." - Matt

by NittanyBull on Mar 14, 2008 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My God, I used to bellyache about Gordon
so much prior to the trade, so I know this makesme a bit of a hypocrite, but I really hope the Bulls get rid of Hughes and keep number seven.

Hughes basically just shoots every time he gets the ball on he elbow. Every time.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 14, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he had a classic from that spot
on a (outmanned) fast break. Completely a 'my turn to shoot' attempt. ugh.

Thabo's obviously back, Hughes can sit next to Duhon now.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I've been disappointed in Gordon this year too, but getting rid of him and keeping Hughes just makes no sense.  The only explanation is that they can't trade Hughes because of his contract.  Maybe that's true, but they're not going to be a better team with Hughes in Gordon's place next year.  He also blocks Thabo from starting.

by Big D on Mar 14, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

for some reason that's the sentiment here
to become better we have to get rid of the good players. Yes, they're mentally weak and dare ask for contract extensions. But jeez...they need help, not to be replaced. Unless they're replaced by somebody better, but Larry Hughes isn't better than anyone, except maybe Wallace.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup
And I'm pretty tired of hearing from and about Kirk that he's better off guarding PGs.  Damn near every fairly quick PG we've played this year has eaten his lunch.

Maybe he's better off defending bigger guys than he is defending little guys.

And Gordon, by no means a great defender, can at least match scores and reasonably expect to come out ahead.

Hughes... I'm not finding much good to say about him.

by Sports2 on Mar 15, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just glad
that I missed watching this game. Somehow hearing the rants about Boylan using a terrible small ball lineup in the 4rth doesn't surprise me. Boylan should be fired and by the Bull's next game they should have a new coach. He's a lame duck coach who looks way over his head. He has been getting out coached since day one.

I'd take Stacey King at this point. At least he knows his personal(KYP Boylan!).

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 14, 2008 11:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe how demoralizing this loss was
it's such a big difference in mindset going the rest of the way knowing that the coach is sabotaging the team, and they have no shot at the 7th seed.

Usually I can come up with some reason to trick myself into caring. Even Thomas looked completely terrible today (well, completely on offense).

Noah played 21 minutes. We have 3 actual frontcourt players and he still plays 21 minutes. Ben Gordon played 13.

I mean...we're tanking? right?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 11:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That post perfectly sums up
how I feel.

I am done for the night. I am going to forget this team exists for a while.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 14, 2008 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they were tanking...
...it'd be much easier to lose to Utah & Cleveland, and to hold onto an 18-point 4th quarter lead against the 76ers.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And let me say this, because I need to get it off
my chest. I don't know if it is rotations or coaching or age or injuries or disinterest, but Nocioni has become a complete nonfactor over the last several weeks. He is an afterthought. He is a desaparecido. (Ha ha - check out my not so clever Argentina allusion - http://www.yendor.com/vanished/)

In any case, it's sad.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 14, 2008 11:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was a fool
for not liking that 'dump Noc on the Nets for nothing' trade proposal. Maybe Pax can start that back up in the offseason. Send the Nets tapes of Nocioni carving up Antoine Walker.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 14, 2008 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again....
....that's Boylan.

We shouldn't attribute to Nocioni's ability what can be explained by Boylan's incompetence.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 14, 2008 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quite Simply
I haven't hated my home team this much since the Knicks dumped Kenny Sears.  Please tell me they're tanking for a draft pick.  No one could coach this ineptly on purpose.  Better to use the I Ching or a divining rod to determine substitutions.  To quote the immor(t)al Monty Python... I fart in your general direction.

by Cannoli on Mar 14, 2008 11:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

On the bright side, Drew Gooden played well
He and Tyrus would make a very good combo at power forward next year.  The key words there being AT POWER FORWARD, because playing Gooden at center is just asinine.  Pax needs to get an actual backup center in the offseason, so whoever the next coach is doesn't have to choose between playing Gray or playing Gooden at the 5.

by Big D on Mar 15, 2008 12:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Gooden at the 5 isn't the problem
Gooden at the 5 with Noc, Gooden at the 5 with Deng...that's just giving up.

DENG WAS THE POWER FORWARD DOWN THE STRETCH, WITH DREW GOODEN AS THE CENTER.

(maybe if I type it bigger it becomes even more ridiculous to read :) )

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 15, 2008 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, yes
That would require playing an actual power forward at the 4, though, and the Bulls seem incapable of that.  I am so sick and tired of small lineups.  Just once, it would be nice to actually have a size advantage over an opponent.  With Noah, Gooden, Hughes, and Thabo, the Bulls have the personnel now to accomplish that at times, but for some reason they feel the need to play gimmicky small lineups.  They have more talent than a team like Philly, so why can't they just line their players up at their natural positions against Philly's guys?

by Big D on Mar 15, 2008 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

poor KC
I feel bad that he had this all typed up before the debacle.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 15, 2008 12:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He was probably too busy
allowing Chris Duhon to use him as a doormat.

by KT on Mar 15, 2008 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So I think I've figured it out
I had to go have a few beers first, but it all became clear to me on the way home.  First, can anybody ever remember when the small ball thing worked and the bulls actually came back and won a game with it?  I remember the last two years pretty well, but the years before I figured out how to find bootleg LP feeds is not as clear.  I can't remember it and "going small" is what killed the bulls, at least how Boylan implements it.  

The whole point of going small is not to be smaller, but quicker.  The problem for the bulls now is that none of their smaller guys are quick.  BG, Kirk, Thabo, and especially Deng and Noc are not quicker than guys even at the next position up.  The only quickness advantage the bulls have is if they bring in Noah and TT, but that could be a rebounding disadvantage.  No, what the bulls need to do is go long.  Kirk (although he had some egregious TO's tonight), Thabo, Deng, TT, and Noah is the lineup the bulls need to play to pressure the ball and force TO's, even playing a full court press.  This "small ball" stuff has got to end because it does not provide the bulls any advantage.  Hell, if Hughes feels like working on defense and only attacking the rim on offense, put him at 2 and move Thabo to the three and put Deng on the bench to do some PT for his obviously-still -bothering-him Achilles.

By the way, the game changed tonight not on Kirk's TO's (which we're dumb) but when Mo cheeks basically gave up and put in Williams.  Cheeks went "quick" and it killed the bulls when Boylan foolishly tried to match and didn't bring back any shotblocking, which would have been the only way to counter the 76ers ability to breakdown the bulls off of the dribble.  It's ironic because Miller usually plays well against the bulls, but his back was obviously holding him back tonight and the bulls exploited him.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 15, 2008 1:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

they were up double-digits
why make some wacky adjustment in the first place?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 15, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am only talking about the knee jerk
move to small ball.  If they went to long ball instead, I don't think they'd have problems.  Or just leave a shot blocker in.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 15, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rooting for this team - pain pain pain
Usually blogging helps me but today I am at a loss for words.  Washington and last night stick out as two bad losses.  However, there have been many others - the two Knick losses combined with so many games this year where this team lacked the ability to dig deep within themselves to either stop a run or make plays to get a win.  

Noah and Thabo are clearly bright spots.  I'm glad we got rid of the Corpse.  But there something this team lacks.  I'm hoping the right coach can ignite chemistry that takes us over the hump.  Mo Cheeks has done a phenomenal job with a team you could argue doesn't have as much talent as the Bulls.  Down 18 on the road they found a way to win with the youngsters.  A clone of Cheeks works for me as Bulls coach.

I know this helps our draft position and losing may be the best thing in the long run - but until the draft no words just - pain pain pain.

by chgobr on Mar 15, 2008 8:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Reggie Evans
Seems to get it. Why doesn't our coach? "Going into the fourth quarter, the Bulls' coach tweaked his lineup a little bit from the first half," 76ers forward Reggie Evans said. "He didn't play [ Aaron] Gray; he played the kid from LSU [ Tyrus Thomas]. They went small ball. "I thought that could be a golden opportunity. That was our biggest thing; they changed the lineup. We went small ball and ran them out."

by mruntouchable on Mar 15, 2008 8:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"To give up 40 points....
"To give up 40 points in the fourth quarter at home is unacceptable"   Boylan

by runio on Mar 15, 2008 9:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

How many times
have we heard Boylan say "unacceptable?"  Clearly it's very acceptable - we keep doing these things.  Maybe he means to suggest that the Bulls play as if they're unaccountable."  As in, to an NBA head coach.

by Freethefro on Mar 15, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would fire Boylan from coaching my YMCA team
after this debacle.  Good lord.  How fast did the 18 point lead have to disappear before you went away from the god forsaken small ball lineup?

I hope Pax was at this game.  He just can't accept a trade that is designed to play the kids and then watch Boylan blow an 18 point lead with those very same kids watching from the bench.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 15, 2008 11:04 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL
What the fuck? I avoided this site this whole time cause i recorded the game and just finished and came back to read everything I was thinking as I just watched.

I really don't think I can even find words to say that haven't already been said in this thread.

All I can say is that this was clearly the worst loss of the season. Even worse than the Wizards loss.

by Option27 on Mar 15, 2008 11:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what's worse
Blowing 15+ point leads at home in the second half or losing all the games we have by 20+ points.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 15, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This loss really depressed me
I thought we played well but what is so apparent is that we do not have the ability to adjust to another team's run.  This is on the coach.  Yes we do not have the one guy to do something to stop a run.  Our defensive adjustments to adversity and duress is pathetic.  I still feel we have good players and one of the best deep teams in the NBA.  We lack an ability to react to adversity.

My suggestion is to get the team prepared to have a shut-down defense.  The new coach needs to have a track record to be able to implement this.  The silver lining is the lottery pick but this doesn't help me with the pain of this loss.

by chgobr on Mar 15, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Will Boylan be back next year?
You think Boylan will be back next year?

by armstrong2389 on Mar 15, 2008 12:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

if he is
i'm not watching the bulls.

by Jaina on Mar 15, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's not impossible
between the lack of no-brainer candidates, and the fact that Boylan's cheap and 'familiar'...I wouldn't be completely shocked. I'd be completely pissed off, but not shocked.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 15, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My fears, as well.
Tack on that Skiles will still be collecting a check from the Bulls, and Boylan doesn't seem to be as big of a long-shot for the job as he should. So depressing.

by mruntouchable on Mar 16, 2008 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perfect Timing
Guess what came in the mail today?  An invoice for playoff tickets.  

by Jobu on Mar 15, 2008 1:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

haha
I've already declined. Guess I don't get a deposit on next season's 11-game plan...oh, rasberries.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 15, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mine too.
I am so tempted to throw it in the trash.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 15, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

18 of 22?!
kc johnson said that the sixers scored on 18 of the final 22 possesions. thats ridiculous and boylan is an effing joke. if hes back, i will..... well, i guess theres nothing i can do.... but ill make even more frustrated comments like this one.

by hughes sucks on Mar 15, 2008 2:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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